MBB: Duke vs. Miami (OH) Pre-Game & In-Game Thread [Archive]

sdotbarbee

11-15-2010, 08:38 AM

Well I don't think the Redhawks are as good as Princeton so I look for it to be another lopsided victory. I look for our guards to continue to play well and I hope our rebounding gets better. Miami (OH) has two guys in the frontcourt that had 11 rebounds in their first game, so it should be a good test for our bigs. They also have Allen Roberts, a guard, who scored 20 points on 7-9 from the field and was 3-3 from behind the arc so we will need to keep an eye on him.

DevilGrad

11-15-2010, 09:41 AM

Charlie Coles sits down with the Cincinnati Enquirer to discuss playing at Duke and his scheduling philosophy in general.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20101115/SPT01/11140372/Miami-s-Charlie-Coles-likes-big-challenge

timmy c

11-15-2010, 11:04 AM

A friend from Ohio described the Red Hawks as an above average MAC team. He thought the local writer had picked them to finish in the top half of the conference. He pointed me to a great post-game video from the head coach after their last season game against Kentucky. It’s a classic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnilJdwyPRs

A look at there fist game box score revealed that Miami (OH) turned the ball over 15 times against Towson.
http://www.muredhawks.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2010-2011/mu111210.html
Wally Szczerbiak better have some eligibility left in order to keep it close.

noyac

11-15-2010, 11:42 AM

Wally Szczerbiak better have some eligibility left in order to keep it close.

I don't think he has any knees left let alone eligibility.

I look for us to protect the ball more and cut down on some of the silly turnovers. I understand that with our upbeat offense there will be some bad possessions (quick shots, cross court passes, etc.) and it is still early but I would like to see better possessions.

superdave

11-15-2010, 11:45 AM

A friend from Ohio described the Red Hawks as an above average MAC team. He thought the local writer had picked them to finish in the top half of the conference. He pointed me to a great post-game video from the head coach after their last season game against Kentucky. It’s a classic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnilJdwyPRs

That was pretty good - Top 10 material along with "go play intramurals, brotha!"

Anyone know if Miami plays man to man or zone? 15 TOs vs. Towson does not bode well after what we just forced on Princeton.

timmy c

11-15-2010, 11:54 AM

Anyone know if Miami plays man to man or zone?

Again, according to a friend, they play man. He also mentioned that they used a match-up zone last year, just to mix it up. He described the zone as a "junk" defense that coach coles uses when he wanted to change tempo or due to foul situations.

DevilGrad

11-15-2010, 12:08 PM

Charlie is generally allergic to zones -- frequently to the consternation of our small-but-loyal basketball fan base -- but he won't shy away from pulling out the junk if he thinks that his best shot at keeping this game within range.

DevilGrad

11-15-2010, 02:53 PM

Wally Szczerbiak better have some eligibility left in order to keep it close.

We'd try Ron Harper, too, but the man is even older than I am. For those interested, a game preview from the Miami perspective is now up on the front page of MiamiHawkTalk.com.

http://www.miamihawktalk.com/home/

mr shadow 008

11-15-2010, 02:59 PM

Does anybody know if the game will be on local television in Nc? I will be in the Emerald isle/Morehead city area with Time Warner Cable. Does anybody know what channel the game could possibly be on?

sdotbarbee

11-15-2010, 03:12 PM

Does anybody know if the game will be on local television in Nc? I will be in the Emerald isle/Morehead city area with Time Warner Cable. Does anybody know what channel the game could possibly be on?

ESPNU, I don't know what TWC channel that is because I have Directv. Sorry.

MChambers

11-15-2010, 05:04 PM

Interestingly, it looks like Miami likes to slow the game down and also shoots a lot of three pointers.

http://kenpom.com/team.php?team=Miami%20OH (I assume Pomeroy bases this on the results of recent years; don't know if this year's team will behave this way, but it seems like a reasonable assumption. Duke's variability in styles is unusual.)

Gonna be another interesting contrast in styles. After last night, I expect Duke to impose its style again.

CEF1959

11-15-2010, 05:28 PM

The realists are hearing it from the optimists on the Miami board:

http://www.miamihawktalk.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=52120&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

And they do NOT like to be referred to as Miami (Ohio). Just Miami University. They get a wee bit testy about it.

pfrduke

11-15-2010, 05:31 PM

And they do NOT like to be referred to as Miami (Ohio). Just Miami University. They get a wee bit testy about it.

I always figured the way to mollify that was to consistently refer to the other Miami as Miami (Florida).

DevilGrad

11-15-2010, 07:20 PM

timmy c

11-15-2010, 07:24 PM

The realists are hearing it from the optimists on the Miami board:

http://www.miamihawktalk.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=52120&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Am I an optimist or a realist if I take Duke and give 30 points?

-jk

11-15-2010, 08:50 PM

To quote the bookstore tee-shirts, "Miami was a university when Florida still belonged to Spain."

If you can't be an optimist about your basketball team on November 15th, then you're either a churl, a lost soul, or a fan of a really terrible team. I'm none of the three and will keep looking on the bright side -- even when that starts to feel like a Monty Python bit.

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Our chief weapon is surprise!... Surprise and fear... fear and surprise... Our two weapons are fear and surprise... and ruthless efficiency! Our three weapons are fear, and surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope... Our four... no... Amongst our weapons... Hmf... Amongst our weaponry... are such elements as fear, surpr...

Go Duke!

-Cardinal Ximinez

ThePublisher

11-15-2010, 09:46 PM

Duke 103, Miami 65. Total domination. I say we are hotter from 3 to start the game than against Princeton, but not quite so prolific in the second half. Princeton's goal is to slow down the opponent to lower the score, and we put up 97 on them, most they have allowed since 1968. In other words, I think this team is going to make a ton of buckets all year long. Scoring wont be an issue.

This is a scary good group of guys. Just wait until Coack K makes them a team. Wow...

FireOgilvie

11-15-2010, 10:54 PM

Apparently, Miami hasn't given up 100 points in a game under Charlie Coles (he's been there since 1996). Most of their games are in the 50s and 60s.

New goal: Score 100 points on Miami.

Gewebe14

11-15-2010, 10:58 PM

New goal: Score 100 points on Miami.

"Like"

DevilGrad

11-16-2010, 07:12 AM

Game preview from the Dayton Daily News. You'll like Charlie's comments on distinguishing Duke from last year's Kentucky team.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayton-sports/miami-university-redhawks/dukes-stars-pose-tall-task-for-miami-1004733.html

diesel

11-16-2010, 07:49 AM

Thanks, DevilGrad, for the useful preview from the Dayton Daily News. It beats today's preview from Durham's own Hurled Scum, which can't even get the score of the Princeton game correct within double figures!

So why can't DBR itself find reports from localities of the teams we play like the Dayton Daily News? This season, I'd particularly like to see reports from the hometown papers of teams we play after the game. I had to go find for myself such reports from the Daily Princetonian and the Trentonian.

We could call such after the fact reporting the Schadenfreude News section.

DevilGrad

11-16-2010, 08:31 AM

The "News Wire" section on the front page of MiamiHawkTalk should have most of what you are looking for, and we'll still be there tomorrow morning regardless of the outcome tonight.

But I'd temper your enthusiasm over these non-conference games against the underfunded likes of Miami -- nobody likes watching Goliath enjoying his schadenfreude over David.

http://www.miamihawktalk.com/home/

OldPhiKap

11-16-2010, 09:02 AM

This is another good test for our team. All year, I think most teams will try to slow the pace down and Miami U. is very good at that. They have some veterans who have played in hostile stadiums before. This will not be a cake walk, although I think our depth and fresh bodies will ultimately tell the tale.

The thing about Duke teams like this is that, even if you hold your own for most of the game, it's the little 7-0 or 9-2 spurts that put the game out of reach. Princeton was a great example -- they hung tough for 18.5 minutes of the first half, and then let us close the half on a 8-0 or so run. We had another shot early in the second half to get it above a dozen, and then they had to try to speed up to our tempo. Which put the game WAY out of reach.

MChambers

11-16-2010, 09:11 AM

Apparently, Miami hasn't given up 100 points in a game under Charlie Coles (he's been there since 1996). Most of their games are in the 50s and 60s.

New goal: Score 100 points on Miami.
I'll be very impressed if Duke hangs 100 on Miami. Not every game will go as well as the Princeton game did. I'd be happy with an 85-60 win.

roywhite

11-16-2010, 09:22 AM

I'll be very impressed if Duke hangs 100 on Miami. Not every game will go as well as the Princeton game did. I'd be happy with an 85-60 win.

Hey, are we spoiled, or what? ;)

Just give us a 25-pt win and we'll be okay.
Have to admit....that's about what I'm looking for, too.

BigZ

11-16-2010, 11:24 AM

MChambers

11-16-2010, 11:34 AM

I will go with another blowout. Most posters thought the Princeton game would be closer and I said Duke would win by atleast 30. Now here is my pick:

Duke 92
Mia-OH 55

Princeton is a lot better than Miami of Ohio.
Pomeroy actually has Miami a little higher than Princeton, although that is based more on conjecture than actual experience, given how early we are in season.

COYS

11-16-2010, 12:07 PM

Miami seems to have less overall size than Princeton. It will be interesting to compare Duke's big and small lineups against a smaller but slightly quicker team.

I will also be interested to see if our low fta/fga ratio continues. Obviously, Princeton played a lot of zone and we shot a lot of threes which limits the opportunities for free throws. However, in the long run I think it will be important to get more trips to the line, especially for Nolan and Kyle who are proven free throw shooters.

hedevil

11-16-2010, 02:54 PM

If Miami has less size than Princeton I will be looking for Duke's big men to step it up a bit (on the boards and scoring) this game. Obviously Duke's strength is in the backcourt this year. However, Duke will really need some consistent inside production moving forward, mainly on the boards, blocks, and altering shots defensively. 13 points or so a game from our big men won't cut it in ACC/NCAAT play. Being that Princeton was only the first game of the season puts my mind at ease for now, but hopefully we'll see some progress from the bigs on a weekly basis moving forward. This seems like a good match up for the big men to get their mojo going.

MChambers

11-16-2010, 03:17 PM

13 points or so a game from our big men won't cut it in ACC/NCAAT play.
Right, not having a low post scoring threat really killed us last year. Uh, wait a minute.

Seriously, I'd love to see more from our big men, especially down low, because I think the lack of a low post scoring threat is one of this team's few (maybe only) weaknesses. But it isn't necessarily a fatal flaw.

oldnavy

11-16-2010, 03:38 PM

SMO

11-16-2010, 03:50 PM

OldPhiKap

11-16-2010, 04:13 PM

A chill in the air, fallen leaves, sun down by the time I get home from work, and of course, Duke can't win without a dominant low post scorer...it must be November. Oh silly recycled arguments, where have you been?

I'm told by a reliable UNC fan that we have a point guard teaching the big men. How silly is that?

I'd love to see our big guys score, but I think it is more accurate to say that they don't get 13 rebounds per game up front we'll lose. Offense isn't the problem: a solid screen for Kyle or a three-pointer is worth more than a hook shot from 8 feet.

Greg_Newton

11-16-2010, 04:30 PM

I think we might see Kyle and/or Nolan take the reigns a little more and put up a big scoring game. I also think Kyrie might look a little more in rhythm with his passing (not that it was bad last time, just not as good as it could have bad) and get double digit assists this time.

Should be fun!

Devilsfan

11-16-2010, 04:38 PM

Until our junior wakes up I go with Dre, Kyrie, Nolan, Kyle and Mason and run them out of the gym.

CEF1959

11-16-2010, 04:55 PM

A chill in the air, fallen leaves, sun down by the time I get home from work, and of course, Duke can't win without a dominant low post scorer...it must be November. Oh silly recycled arguments, where have you been?

There have been years in which dominant big men inside have been a problem for us. In my freshman year at Duke (77-78) the guy was Jack Givens of Kentucky. There have been more recent examples whose names I shudder to even mention but who gave us fits inside.

Some fears are just irrational fears; other fears are born of memory.

The good news for us is that there are so few really good big men in college basketball anymore. Not that ours don't have great potential (and may be better than most), but it's worth thinking about.

MChambers

11-16-2010, 05:05 PM

There have been years in which dominant big men inside have been a problem for us. In my freshman year at Duke (77-78) the guy was Jack Givens of Kentucky. There have been more recent examples whose names I shudder to even mention but who gave us fits inside.

Some fears are just irrational fears; other fears are born of memory.

The good news for us is that there are so few really good big men in college basketball anymore. Not that ours don't have great potential (and may be better than most), but it's worth thinking about.
Sorry, but my nightmares still involve Givens. And he was 3, shooting foul line jumpers over Gminski in the 2-3 zone. Not a dominant inside player.

Kedsy

11-16-2010, 05:07 PM

There have been years in which dominant big men inside have been a problem for us. In my freshman year at Duke (77-78) the guy was Jack Givens of Kentucky. There have been more recent examples whose names I shudder to even mention but who gave us fits inside.

Perhaps my memory is failing me, but my recollection is that Givens was a 6'5" forward who shredded us from the weak point of Bill Foster's 2-3 zone (which was just below the free throw line IIRC, and not inside at all). I don't remember him as a big man, dominant or otherwise.

EDIT: MChambers beat me to it, but at least now I know I'm not going senile.

DukieInBrasil

11-16-2010, 05:19 PM

Right, not having a low post scoring threat really killed us last year. Uh, wait a minute.

Seriously, I'd love to see more from our big men, especially down low, because I think the lack of a low post scoring threat is one of this team's few (maybe only) weaknesses. But it isn't necessarily a fatal flaw.

Well, the 4some of Z/LT & the MPs averaged close to 20 ppg last year, which is considerably more than 13. And towards the end of the year there wasn't too much variance from the mean, if a bit lower.
The thing that will be more telling for this team is the rebounding, which was actually pretty anemic from our bigguns vs. Princeton. Part of that was due to the paucity of Oboards for our guys to corral and the huge number of turns from P'ton that also limited reb opportunities.
Now, our bigguns this year don't need to average the same ppg and rpg as our 4some did last year to be valuable. But they do need to have a "value added" presence on the court. I think that the +/- stats, as flawed as they may be, shows that despite the lack of mega-stats from the bigguns they definitely added value to the team when they played.
That's what i'll be looking for vs Miami-OH, independent of ppg or rpg #s is do the bigguns facilitate good team basketball.

MChambers

11-16-2010, 05:19 PM

Perhaps my memory is failing me, but my recollection is that Givens was a 6'5" forward who shredded us from the weak point of Bill Foster's 2-3 zone (which was just below the free throw line IIRC, and not inside at all). I don't remember him as a big man, dominant or otherwise.

EDIT: MChambers beat me to it, but at least now I know I'm not going senile.

Maybe you just have company in senility!

Kedsy

11-16-2010, 05:21 PM

Maybe you just have company in senility!

Yikes, I hadn't thought of that. What's your name again?

MChambers

11-16-2010, 05:29 PM

Well, the 4some of Z/LT & the MPs averaged close to 20 ppg last year, which is considerably more than 13. And towards the end of the year there wasn't too much variance from the mean, if a bit lower.
The thing that will be more telling for this team is the rebounding, which was actually pretty anemic from our bigguns vs. Princeton. Part of that was due to the paucity of Oboards for our guys to corral and the huge number of turns from P'ton that also limited reb opportunities.
Now, our bigguns this year don't need to average the same ppg and rpg as our 4some did last year to be valuable. But they do need to have a "value added" presence on the court. I think that the +/- stats, as flawed as they may be, shows that despite the lack of mega-stats from the bigguns they definitely added value to the team when they played.
That's what i'll be looking for vs Miami-OH, independent of ppg or rpg #s is do the bigguns facilitate good team basketball.
I agree with all of your points generally, but want to point out that the bigs Sunday included Kyle for some portion of the game. Last year, at least after December, Kyle almost never played the 4. So the number from Sunday is slightly misleading.

gam7

11-16-2010, 05:52 PM

I'm sure many of you have seen these, but one of my favorite sources of up-to-date Duke stats, records, rankings, etc. is the pdf version of the game notes that the sports info department puts out before every game. For the Miami game, you can find the pdf game notes here: http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&ATCLID=205031497&DB_OEM_ID=4200. A great resource.

DukeFanSince1990

11-16-2010, 06:58 PM

I think this game is going to be on ESPN3 now, its on the upcoming events lists anyway, yesterday it was not.

JonnyWonder

11-16-2010, 07:08 PM

I think this game is going to be on ESPN3 now, its on the upcoming events lists anyway, yesterday it was not.

HUGE! Thanks for the update. I checked about 15 minutes ago and it wasn't listed on ESPN3. I was sitting here depressed that I would miss the game, drowning my sorrows by watching the Princeton game again, until I saw your post. Now it has magically appeared on ESPN3!

riverside6

11-16-2010, 07:16 PM

Live tempo-based stats for the game here...

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=6852

Starters: Irving, Smith, Singler, Mason Plumlee, and Ryan Kelly

NSDukeFan

11-16-2010, 07:29 PM

Live tempo-based stats for the game here...

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=6852

Starters: Irving, Smith, Singler, Mason Plumlee, and Ryan Kelly

Now, that's interesting.

proelitedota

11-16-2010, 07:41 PM

stream: http://atdhe.net/#

Son of Mojo

11-16-2010, 07:45 PM

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr......I hate having to listen to Patrick and Elmore so much........

Exiled_Devil

11-16-2010, 08:00 PM

"Did Kyle Singler jump into the Crazies? He's so silly."

"#34! Ryan Kelly! I think Ryan Kelly got a haircut."

"That's not good. The red team scored a basket."

_TheFakeJWill_

11-16-2010, 08:02 PM

BUHAHAHAHA new Zoubeard... classic. where was that last year?!

And kelly in the starting lineup?... hhuuummmm...

Kimist

11-16-2010, 08:10 PM

I don't receive ESPNU (Time Warner issues) but am currently watching the game on computer via ESPN3.com and AT&T/Bellsouth DSL connection.

It did take a while for everything to "load" but now everything is working fine with no interrupts. Roughly 5 mins remain in first half.

k

Exiled_Devil

11-16-2010, 08:18 PM

"Only shooting 10 of 24" Is that really a bad percentage? It's 41% from the field as a team.

Kimist

11-16-2010, 08:23 PM

"Only shooting 10 of 24" Is that really a bad percentage? It's 41% from the field as a team.

You gotta take into account who the announcers are......:p

k

ajgoodfella7

11-16-2010, 08:24 PM

Really impressed with Andre Dawkins in that first half. His defensive game has been just as impressive as his offensive game.

AlaskanAssassin

11-16-2010, 08:25 PM

We're not efficient enough on the offensive end. Too sloppy! Need to work together! Set up Kyle!

lotusland

11-16-2010, 08:26 PM

This offense definitely plays to his strengths.

mgtr

11-16-2010, 08:28 PM

Not sure the problem, but we just don't look sharp tonight. Mostly the passes are not crisp. But, we are ahead and almost certain to win. I guess I'll settle for that!!!

Saratoga2

11-16-2010, 08:29 PM

I am only following on game tracker again, so can only form general ideas of what is happening. It appears with Irving on the bench with foul trouble we still produced a very good defense and both Dawkins and Curry were pretty efficient offensively. Shooting appeared to be off and we weren't getting much inside. Game tracker lists both Plumlees as M. Plumlee, so it is hard to tell which is which. I suppose next year there will be three M. Plumlees so it could be worse. Is Mason the one scoring?

Look to input from those fortunate enough to watch.

ajgoodfella7

11-16-2010, 08:31 PM

slower

11-16-2010, 08:31 PM

This offense definitely plays to his strengths.

He (Mason) seems to be guaranteed several bonehead plays, ill-advised 3-pt attempts, stupid fouls, defensive lapses per game. Yeah, I know it's early and I know everybody gets amnesia about his shortcomings when he dunks, but this guy scares the crap out of me. We'll know more next week, won't we?

On the plus side, I'm loving Seth and Dre as 3-pt killers, Ryan's holding his own and Nolan's running things well with Kyrie on the bench.

BlueDster

11-16-2010, 08:35 PM

He (Mason) seems to be guaranteed several bonehead plays, ill-advised 3-pt attempts, stupid fouls, defensive lapses per game. Yeah, I know it's early and I know everybody gets amnesia about his shortcomings when he dunks, but this guy scares the crap out of me. We'll know more next week, won't we?

On the plus side, I'm loving Seth and Dre as 3-pt killers, Ryan's holding his own and Nolan's running things well with Kyrie on the bench.

You're right that Mason has made a few mistakes, but I think this has been the best stretch we've seen out of him yet. He's pulled down 9 rebounds (though the other team isn't really trying to rebound on offense) and has been in good defensive position to help on drives to the basket.

MartyClark

11-16-2010, 08:51 PM

He (Mason) seems to be guaranteed several bonehead plays, ill-advised 3-pt attempts, stupid fouls, defensive lapses per game. Yeah, I know it's early and I know everybody gets amnesia about his shortcomings when he dunks, but this guy scares the crap out of me. We'll know more next week, won't we?

On the plus side, I'm loving Seth and Dre as 3-pt killers, Ryan's holding his own and Nolan's running things well with Kyrie on the bench.

I agree with you. He and the younger players are still works in progress but I don't like Mason's offensive game when he receives a pass, up high or down low, and tries to put a move on the defender. He is much better on the run. On the positive side, he is doing a good job with defensive rebounds.

davekay1971

11-16-2010, 09:10 PM

Kyrie's little 7 point "I'll just take over right now, thanks" outburst reminded me of a guy named Jason Williams. Not trying to equate the two...just had a flashback. Love what I'm seeing from him!

dchen09

11-16-2010, 09:18 PM

On the positive side, he is doing a good job with defensive rebounds.

I don't know how much we can take away from this game about his rebounding. He started out bobbling the ball a couple times. After that Miami just gave up completely on offensive rebounding. Half the time, before the shot even hits the rim Miami is already beyond half court.