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pfrduke
11-15-2010, 07:30 AM
Lots of action this week in conference play, with some early tests for some of teams who are hoping for big years.

Monday's marquee matchup is the Miami-Memphis game as the Canes look to show they should be taken seriously this season. Grant and Scott were electric in the opener against Jacksonville - doing it against Memphis's backcourt will be a tougher task.

[46]Miami at [7]Memphis
[132]Wake Forest hosts [264]Hampton (NIT Tip-off)
[29]Clemson hosts [94]Wofford
[57]Virginia hosts [331]USC-Upstate
[78]Georgia Tech at [278]Kennesaw St

Tuesday features Virginia Tech visiting the other Manhattan to take on the Wildcats of K-State. Also, Chris Singleton tries to repeat his triple double (10 steals last night!) as the Noles head to Gardner-Webb.

[1]Duke hosts [142]Miami OH
[25]Virginia Tech at [13]Kansas State
[27]Florida State hosts [308]Gardner Webb
[132]Wake Forest hosts [65]VCU/[230]Winthrop

Wednesday
[78]Georgia Tech hosts [269]Albany

Thursday has a big Maryland/Pittsburgh matchup. Watching Jordan Williams do battle with Gary McGhee should give a better sense for whether he's ready to go up against marquee post defenders. It also features the start of two holiday tournaments, with UNC living up the island life, while NC State heads south (but stateside) to Charleston.

[23]Maryland in NY vs. [2]Pittsburgh (2ksports semis)
[16]UNC in Puerto Rico vs. [174]Hofstra (Puerto Rico Tip-off)
[41]NC State in Charleston vs. [118]East Carolina (Charleston Classic)
[38]Boston College hosts [268]Yale
[27]Florida State at [234]Florida International
[57]Virginia at [80]Stanford

Friday has more tournament play, including the potential (if Maryland upsets Pitt) for the ACC to play for what would hopefully be one of many pre-season tourney titles.

[23]Maryland in NY vs. [9]Illinois/[14]Texas
[16]UNC in Puerto Rico vs. [43]Minnesota/[108]Western Kentucky
[41]NC State in Charleston vs. [76]George Mason/[136]Charlotte
[1]Duke hosts [293]Colgate
[29]Clemson hosts [110]Long Beach St
[46]Miami hosts [298]NCCU
[78]Georgia Tech hosts [209]Niagara

Saturday
[132]Wake Forest at [257]Elon

Sunday
[16]UNC in Puerto Rico (TBD)
[41]NC State in Charleston (TBD)
[25]Virginia Tech at [303]UNC-Greensboro
[46]Miami at [159]Rutgers

ACC Non-Conference Record 14-1
AEC: 1-0
A-Sun: 4-1
Big South: 1-0
Colonial: 1-0
Ind: 1-0
Ivy: 1-0
NEC: 1-0
OVC: 1-0
Southern: 3-0

gw67
11-15-2010, 07:54 AM
pfr,

Thanks for the great intro to each week's ACC games. I really look forward to the college basketball season and your input is value added for those of us who not only follow the Devils but the whole league as well. I assume that the numbers in the [ ] are the opposing team's national ranking. What is the source?

gw67

JasonEvans
11-15-2010, 08:45 AM
pfr bringing it!! Great stuff. This is the exact kind of post that deserves mondo pitchfork points!!

A few additional comments--

1) Do not ignore the Clemson-Wofford matchup on Monday. Wofford was Southern Conference champs last year and won 26 games. They return almost everyone from that team and think they can put together the kind of record that would get them an at-large NCAA bid if they somehow do not win their conference tournament. This is a team that beat Georgia and South Carolina last year and took Pitt to the wire before losing. This is a major test for Clemson and a win would be a nice mark on their resume. Last year, Wofford ended the season with an RPI of 69.

2) Wake and Hampton may seem like a laugher, but Wake really sucks. Wake lost to Stetson who is actually rated lower than Hampton.

3) You seem to be unclear about NC State's opponents in the Charleston Classic. Depending on who wins and loses, State could play the previously mentioned Wofford Terriers in the semi-finals of the tournament. ESPN hopes to get a Championship matchup between NC State and Georgetown on Sunday. That would be a huge game for State!

4) As you point out, it is a huge week for the mid-top ACC teams to test themselves against significant opponents. Miami, Va Tech, UNC, Maryland, and NC State all see themselves as NCAA Tourney teams and contenders for 2nd in the ACC (behind Duke). By the end of this week, we should have a much better idea about these aspirations.

--Jason "ahhh, so good to finally have games that matter!!!" Evans

Olympic Fan
11-15-2010, 10:12 AM
Great summary ... you've picked out most of the key games. Just a few additional observations:

(1) The Memphis-Miami game starts at midnight -- the kickoff of ESPN's 24-hour marathon (that includes Duke-Miami).

(2) The two games Wake has to play in the preseason NIT are set up to get the Deacs to New York, but after their meltdown against Stetson, they will have to struggle to get two home wins and thus earn the two more games in New York (unlike the CBE event Duke is in, the preseason NIT is a real tournament -- there will be a consolation game if Wake loses to Hampton, but the two games in New York are contingent on winning twice in Joel).

(3) It's put up or shut up for the Hokies. K-State in Mahattan is tough, but this group of Virginia Tech players has to beat somebody to justify their top 25 status (for all their whining and their great ACC finish a year ago, they didn't beat anybody better than Wake Forest).

(4) North Carolina's trip to Puerto Rico should offer at least two games of interest. Not so much Hofstra, but they'll probably get Minnesota in the second round and the Gophers expect to be a NCAA team. Unless there is an upset, UNC will get West Virginia in the finals Sunday -- if they get back to the states unbeaten, I'd have to say their high ranking is justified.

(5) Duke pretty much coasts through this week. I know Miami played Kentucky tough a year ago (losing by a last-second shot by Wall in Lexington), but they should not be as good as Princeton. And Colgate Friday is another breather ... Duke begins playing significant games next week, when they travel to Kansas City for Marquette and either K-State or Gonzaga.

MChambers
11-15-2010, 10:20 AM
pfr,

Thanks for the great intro to each week's ACC games. I really look forward to the college basketball season and your input is value added for those of us who not only follow the Devils but the whole league as well. I assume that the numbers in the [ ] are the opposing team's national ranking. What is the source?

gw67

Pomeroy. www.kenpom.com.

sagegrouse
11-15-2010, 10:25 AM
Thanks for teeing this up for us so well. A great post!

One reaction: college hoops season starts like an avalanche -- a couple of unimportant games last week -- and then it is full bore. It helps when there are 100 or so teams who can cause anyone problems at some time or another.

Wow! Virginia Tech at Kansas State. A win for the Hokies would be mo-MENT-ous.

I think we will know a lot more about Wake Forest after the two games this week. 2-0 would right the ship; 0-2 might sink it.

We will also know a lot more about early season State with a potential match-up with Georgetown in the finals.

sagegrouse

gw67
11-15-2010, 10:34 AM
Pomeroy. www.kenpom.com.

Thanks. I suspected Pomeroy but I recall that a couple of the DBR posters have their own blogs/rating systems and thought that pfr might be one of those.

gw67

pfrduke
11-15-2010, 05:24 PM
pfr bringing it!! Great stuff. This is the exact kind of post that deserves mondo pitchfork points!!

2) Wake and Hampton may seem like a laugher, but Wake really sucks. Wake lost to Stetson who is actually rated lower than Hampton.

And even if Wake does manage to sneak by Hampton, they have to be underdogs to VCU (unlikely that Winthrop pulls the upset there). Should Wake manage to sneak into New York, the other PNIT host schools are Tennessee, Villanova, and UCLA (Wake's on Tennessee's side of the bracket).


3) You seem to be unclear about NC State's opponents in the Charleston Classic. Depending on who wins and loses, State could play the previously mentioned Wofford Terriers in the semi-finals of the tournament. ESPN hopes to get a Championship matchup between NC State and Georgetown on Sunday. That would be a huge game for State!

It wasn't on NCSU's schedule webpage, and I was too lazy to look up the Charleston Classic. But it looks like they will play one of George Mason or Charlotte, both of whom have been good in recent years but look to be a bit less good this season. Stats edited in the original post.


4) As you point out, it is a huge week for the mid-top ACC teams to test themselves against significant opponents. Miami, Va Tech, UNC, Maryland, and NC State all see themselves as NCAA Tourney teams and contenders for 2nd in the ACC (behind Duke). By the end of this week, we should have a much better idea about these aspirations.

--Jason "ahhh, so good to finally have games that matter!!!" Evans

Realistically, if the conference comes through this week with fewer than 5 losses on the week, that will be a strong performance. VT will have a very difficult time at K-State (although is Curtis Kelly still out?); ditto Miami at Memphis; Wake just looks like a bad basketball team; Maryland has two very difficult opponents; and State and Carolina could both either win their tourney or suffer multiple losses. Not to mention that both Virginia and Miami could face trap road games against slightly worse big conference opponents in Stanford and Rutgers.

JasonEvans
11-15-2010, 05:35 PM
VT will have a very difficult time at K-State (although is Curtis Kelly still out?)

Looks like (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Breakfast-buffet-Curtis-Kelly-may-sit-out-again?urn=ncaab-285636) he might still be out.

-Jason "above link contains reference to an article that the Ky AD may be looking to get out because he thinks Calipari will go on probation soon" Evans

loran16
11-15-2010, 08:28 PM
GTech is down 15 at half against Kennesaw State.

dchen09
11-15-2010, 08:54 PM
Wake 56-50 against Hampton with 3:47 left,
Clemson 63-53 against Wofford with 3:45 left,
Georgia Tech 37-48 against Kennesaw St 15:35 left

Seriously?!?

dchen09
11-15-2010, 09:01 PM
Though NCCU is leading Oklahoma by 3 right now...

loran16
11-15-2010, 09:02 PM
Wake 56-50 against Hampton with 3:47 left,
Clemson 63-53 against Wofford with 3:45 left,
Georgia Tech 37-48 against Kennesaw St 15:35 left

Seriously?!?

Wake survives to beat Hampton, no thanks to FT shooting.
GT is coming back.

To be fair to Clemson, Wofford was projected to win their mid major conference, and they were up by like 20 at one point.

(Oh and lol @ Oklahoma)

dchen09
11-15-2010, 09:08 PM
I would be alot happier for NCCU if Jeff Capel weren't the coach at OU.

SuperTurkey
11-15-2010, 09:53 PM
GT is coming back.

Well, that didn't pan out. GT lost big, 80-63.

ThePublisher
11-15-2010, 10:02 PM
So a friend of mine graduated from State and has season tickets. I was offered to come to the State v Tennessee Tech game and obliged.

Some notes on state. Leslie and Brown are very, very good. Their main weakness this year is still going to be at the point. Harrow is very fast. Not quite Irving fast, but very fast. His problem is that he is basically a short Henson. The boy has no muscle on him. He did ok against TT but still got thrown around some. I can see Irving and other more built guards manning him up and shutting him down.

Wood looks more comfortable and still has his effortless shot. Somewhat similar to how Kelly shoots. Just a flick of the wrist. Like last year, he still looked kind of lost on defense to me.

Their bevy of post guys should be solid. Smith looked like he was disinterested, but look at their opponent. He may not be super happy that his spotlight is gone, but we'll see how that plays out.

Overall, I can see State getting it together and ending up 3 or 4 in the ACC. Or they could never mesh and end up somewhere in the middle. Time will tell.

I don't see them beating Duke again this year. Unless we play them under the same 'tired' circumstances as we did last year. Anyone could be us at the 3rd game of only 1 day rest. Anyway....

loran16
11-15-2010, 10:13 PM
Central choked away the lead by giving up a tying 3 with 15 secs left and is going to lose in OT. Shame.

JasonEvans
11-15-2010, 10:34 PM
Central choked away the lead by giving up a tying 3 with 15 secs left and is going to lose in OT. Shame.

But good for Capel. I root for him more than I do for NC-Central.

-Jason "Jeff needs some breaks - he's had a tough time at Okie since Griffin left" Evans

Olympic Fan
11-15-2010, 10:55 PM
Virginia goes to 2-0, pulling away from USC-Upstate after trailing most of the first half.

Miami takes on Memphis on ESPN in a little over an hour.

I admit I'm a little shocked by Georgia Tech's loss ... although it was on the road.

On the other hand, even a narrow win at home over Hampton is a step up for Wake. We'll get a better read on them tomorrow night, when they face (probably) VCU.

And I agree that Clemson's victory over a very good Wofford team is not a poor showing.

Bluedog
11-16-2010, 01:52 AM
Memphis had a 9-point lead and Miami has just got themselves within 3 with 8:30 to go. Let's go Canes! This would be a pretty big win for the ACC.

loran16
11-16-2010, 02:26 AM
Miami almost pulled it out, but just got sloppy (and missed FTs) at the end. That would've been a huge win for their tournament resume. Instead, nothing.

For us to note: Miami rebounded an insane 60% of their misses. They can't shoot well, but they look like Duke last year on offense. So when we play them, the Plumlees will be big.

ice-9
11-16-2010, 07:21 AM
Ironically, having GT and WF as weak as they seem to be might be better for the ACC as a whole in terms of getting teams into the tournament. Seems like those two teams could give 25 to 30 wins to other ACC teams...

Wander
11-16-2010, 03:24 PM
I am going to call for Va Tech to get exposed this afternoon. I don't think Kansas State is really the third best team out there, but VT is my pick for the most overrated team in the preseason.

I'm late with this, but I'd put the ACC as something like:

1 Duke
2 FSU
3 UNC
4 Clemson
5 Miami
6 Virginia Tech
7 NC State
8 Maryland
9 Boston College
10 Georgia Tech
11 Virginia
12 Wake

DevilHorns
11-16-2010, 04:09 PM
Great early season match-up against 2 teams that Duke will have to face. I'm interested in how K-State will run their offense now that Clemente is gone. And of course, we have Bobby Knight with his exemplary comments throughout the game.

camion
11-16-2010, 04:28 PM
I am going to call for Va Tech to get exposed this afternoon. I don't think Kansas State is really the third best team out there, but VT is my pick for the most overrated team in the preseason.

I'm late with this, but I'd put the ACC as something like:

1 Duke
2 FSU
3 UNC
4 Clemson
5 Miami
6 Virginia Tech
7 NC State
8 Maryland
9 Boston College
10 Georgia Tech
11 Virginia
12 Wake

I would say that Virginia Tech finishes higher than that simply because they play 10 of their 16 conferrence games against your bottom five teams. The unbalanced schedule rears its ugly head again.

mr. synellinden
11-16-2010, 04:30 PM
Interesting start to the game. Pullen just picked up his 3rd foul before the under 12 minute timeout. He's done for the first half with K. St. leading by 2. Based on the flow of the game so far, this game is there for the taking for V. Tech, which would be a huge road win.

K. St. does not look so impressive so far, and it will be interesting to see how they play without their leader.

amazinballer323
11-16-2010, 04:32 PM
Not having Curtis Kelly hurts K State too. He's money

MChambers
11-16-2010, 04:37 PM
Interesting start to the game. Pullen just picked up his 3rd foul before the under 12 minute timeout. He's done for the first half with K. St. leading by 2. Based on the flow of the game so far, this game is there for the taking for V. Tech, which would be a huge road win.

K. St. does not look so impressive so far, and it will be interesting to see how they play without their leader.

If the ESPN gamecast is to be believed, Davila and Allen, VT's only post players, each have 3 fouls. This likely will be VT's Achilles heel. (What an erratic career Allen has had -- started out like a house on fire, but never really has improved very much.)

flyingdutchdevil
11-16-2010, 04:50 PM
Delaney is easily my favorite non-Duke player. It's not the scoring - it's his composure and leadership on the court. Very impressive.

He's doing a great job against K State. It's basically Delaney vs K State right now.

BTW - I know that Pullen isn't playing much today and Kelly at all, but is K State really the 3rd best team in Div I? Really? It that's the case, then this is a crazy weak year for the NCAA...

PumpkinFunk
11-16-2010, 04:54 PM
VTech should be taking advantage of the absence of Pullen far more than they are. They should've jumped onto a lead and forced Frank Martin to take the risk and put Pullen back in, and instead, they're just playing soft.

Bluedog
11-16-2010, 06:02 PM
Seth Greenberg already in mid-season form, getting a technical for complaining. Ran out to midcourt to yell at the refs for a no foul call, even though it should have been a travel by Va Tech. Va Tech hasn't looked so great, lots of rough physical play (and lots of fouls called; typical....) but don't really have any rhythm to their offense. It's pretty much give it to Delaney and let him do something. Allen has done some too, but the rest of the team doesn't seem to be really all on the same page. Lots of fouls called on both ends and not the prettiest affair; both teams have hit some key shots, though. K St up by 12 now with 5 min to go...

Wander
11-16-2010, 06:20 PM
Get on the VT anti-train while you still can. I have absolutely no idea what brainwashed the ACC media into picking VT to finish 2nd in the conference. They were absolutely mediocre last year, and there was never much of a reason to think they'd be much better this year.

JasonEvans
11-16-2010, 10:19 PM
We all know by now that KSt went on a crazy run in the second half to seize control of a game they were trailing in and down Va Tech. Frankly, neither team looked very good.

Wake got hammered by Virginia Commonwealth 90-69. At this point, one has to be wondering if Wake is the worst BCS conference team in the land. If not, they are certainly close. When was the last time an ACC team failed to even win 10 games on the season?

Fla St beat Gardner-Webb by 25. Gardner-Webb did have a win at Charlotte a few days ago, so they may not be so godawful. Chris Singleton is going to make a real run at 1st team All-ACC. He had 30 tonight and is averaging better than 20 ppg on the season.

We all know what Duke did ;)

-Jason "wow, Wake just sucks, Pomeroy is projecting them to go 10-19" Evans

JasonEvans
11-16-2010, 10:26 PM
When was the last time an ACC team failed to even win 10 games on the season?

Virginia won 10 games in 2009 -- 10 and 18 overall record.
Ga Tech won 11 in 2006 -- 11 and 17.
Clemson went 10 and 18 in 2004.

And the last ACC team to fail to win 10 games... the 2002 UNC Tarheels who went 8 and 20.

--Jason "how could I forget!" Evans

Wander
11-16-2010, 10:34 PM
We all know by now that KSt went on a crazy run in the second half to seize control of a game they were trailing in and down Va Tech. Frankly, neither team looked very good.

It is worth noting that KSU was without what most consider their 2nd best player. But I agree.

MChambers
11-17-2010, 11:06 AM
Wake got hammered by Virginia Commonwealth 90-69. At this point, one has to be wondering if Wake is the worst BCS conference team in the land. If not, they are certainly close. When was the last time an ACC team failed to even win 10 games on the season?
Wake certainly seems terrible, although if Chennault can come back in January it would help a lot. I'm thinking Georgia Tech may give Wake a run for its money for worst team in the ACC, however. Wake has a new coach, with a multiyear contract, and therefore the players should respond to him eventually. Hewitt, on the other hand, is going to be very unpopular by January and his players may tune him out. Of course, he's got that ridiculous contract that makes firing him inordinately expensive.

pfrduke
11-17-2010, 11:20 AM
Realistically, if the conference comes through this week with fewer than 5 losses on the week, that will be a strong performance. VT will have a very difficult time at K-State (although is Curtis Kelly still out?); ditto Miami at Memphis; Wake just looks like a bad basketball team; Maryland has two very difficult opponents; and State and Carolina could both either win their tourney or suffer multiple losses. Not to mention that both Virginia and Miami could face trap road games against slightly worse big conference opponents in Stanford and Rutgers.

And by Wednesday morning we already have four losses. I'm not sure we learned anything different about Miami - they looked quite strong against Memphis, and should be a top half finisher in the ACC (or at least have the talent to do so). Virginia Tech was disappointing. And I may have to lump Georgia Tech in with Wake as just looking like a bad basketball team.

Duke: A Dynasty
11-17-2010, 03:28 PM
I am going to call for Va Tech to get exposed this afternoon. I don't think Kansas State is really the third best team out there, but VT is my pick for the most overrated team in the preseason.

I'm late with this, but I'd put the ACC as something like:

1 Duke
2 FSU
3 UNC
4 Clemson
5 Miami
6 Virginia Tech
7 NC State
8 Maryland
9 Boston College
10 Georgia Tech
11 Virginia
12 Wake

I would deff say this will be way off imo. Duke will be first of course but Clemson will be in the bottom 6 State will be top 4.

1 Duke
2 FSU (not sold on them but nobody else fits)
3 UNC
4 NC State
5 Va Tech
6 Miami
7 Maryland
8 Clemson
9 Boston College
10 Ga Tech
11 Virginia
12 Wake

Duke: A Dynasty
11-17-2010, 03:37 PM
And by Wednesday morning we already have four losses. I'm not sure we learned anything different about Miami - they looked quite strong against Memphis, and should be a top half finisher in the ACC (or at least have the talent to do so). Virginia Tech was disappointing. And I may have to lump Georgia Tech in with Wake as just looking like a bad basketball team.

I would agree some what. Miami does not look much like a team when I watched. Basically it seemed like Grant and Scott just did not share the ball and kept trying to play "street ball" and make their own highlight reels but Miami can be good when they spread it around more. VT impressed me in the loss actually, being able to hang with K State is not easy and they did it for a long while. They should finish top 5 in the acc.

Bob Green
11-17-2010, 04:10 PM
They should finish top 5 in the acc.

VT finishing lower than 3rd in the ACC will be considered a disappointing season for the Hokies.

sagegrouse
11-17-2010, 04:22 PM
Wake certainly seems terrible, although if Chennault can come back in January it would help a lot. I'm thinking Georgia Tech may give Wake a run for its money for worst team in the ACC, however. Wake has a new coach, with a multiyear contract, and therefore the players should respond to him eventually. Hewitt, on the other hand, is going to be very unpopular by January and his players may tune him out. Of course, he's got that ridiculous contract that makes firing him inordinately expensive.

Now, would someone please tell me why Dino Gaudio was so bad?

sagegrouse

pfrduke
11-17-2010, 04:22 PM
I would agree some what. Miami does not look much like a team when I watched. Basically it seemed like Grant and Scott just did not share the ball and kept trying to play "street ball" and make their own highlight reels but Miami can be good when they spread it around more. VT impressed me in the loss actually, being able to hang with K State is not easy and they did it for a long while. They should finish top 5 in the acc.

It's worth noting that VT hung with K State while the Wildcats were largely without their two best players - Curtis Kelly on the bench for the game, and Pullen on the bench for a whole lot of the game (he played just 14 minutes - only 2:30 in the first half when the game stayed close).

Duvall
11-17-2010, 04:30 PM
Now, would someone please tell me why Dino Gaudio was so bad?

sagegrouse

What's worse - producing a mediocre team with NBA talent, or producing an awful team with no talent? Bear in mind that Gaudio recruited both.

JasonEvans
11-17-2010, 05:10 PM
What's worse - producing a mediocre team with NBA talent, or producing an awful team with no talent? Bear in mind that Gaudio recruited both.

Exactly-- Wake is horrible today at least partly because Gaudio failed so miserably at recruiting and developing players the past couple years.

-Jason "still, the Bedzcyzwiskyeck hire was a bad one" Evans

Olympic Fan
11-17-2010, 05:34 PM
Wake certainly seems terrible, although if Chennault can come back in January it would help a lot.

I just talke to a Wake insider today and he said there is a very good chance that Chennault will be redshirted (actually, he will have to apply for a medical hardship, but since he played in just one game, he would be almost certain to get it).

The thinking is that it makes no sense to waste a year by bringing him back in January -- when he would still be out of shape and out of sync -- to help a 3-14 team.

And while he would help some, it's not like he's Kyrie Irving or Harrison Barnes ... he was a borderline top 100 recruit (Tyler Thornton was a higher rated prospect).

MChambers
11-17-2010, 05:46 PM
I just talke to a Wake insider today and he said there is a very good chance that Chennault will be redshirted (actually, he will have to apply for a medical hardship, but since he played in just one game, he would be almost certain to get it).

The thinking is that it makes no sense to waste a year by bringing him back in January -- when he would still be out of shape and out of sync -- to help a 3-14 team.

And while he would help some, it's not like he's Kyrie Irving or Harrison Barnes ... he was a borderline top 100 recruit (Tyler Thornton was a higher rated prospect).
Makes sense. FWIW, Pomeroy has them winning quite a bit more than that early (well, about 8 wins), and then a long stretch of games that will be very difficult, except for GT at home.

gw67
11-18-2010, 08:01 AM
Maryland and Virginia play some tough opponents tonight - Pitt (3) for the Terps and Stanford (80) in Palo Alto for the Hoos. I would like to see the Terps win one of the two games they will play against ranked opponents in the next two days but I think that is unlikely. The key will be whether they can be competitive. If they can play two good games and not get blown out, then I expect a 17-19 win regular season and an NCAAT bubble team. I would also like to see Virginia be competitive on the road and in the Maui tournament. I like Bennett and think that he has them going in the right direction.

Two links from the Washington Post are below. The first is on Jordan Williams the Terps center. He comes accross as a great kid in interviews and, from the article, he has a good attitude. He may have a tough time against the big frontlines he will play against in the Garden. Personal note: I never believe the heights stated for college players and Williams is always referred to as 6'10". It appeared to me that he was only a couple of inches taller than Palsson when they showed a closeup the other day which would make him closer to 6'8". The second link is a nice bit on the two youngsters playing point guard for Virginia until Zeglinski recovers.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/17/AR2010111706352.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/17/AR2010111706204.html

gw67

loran16
11-18-2010, 05:10 PM
ESPN putting Hubie Davis on color during a UNC game is just awful. Seriously.

Also, Hofstra is really bad at rebounding. It's painful to watch so far.

loran16
11-18-2010, 05:23 PM
I turned off the game for 2 reasons:

A. UNC is easily manhandling Hofstra right now, and looks really good against a tiny team.
B. The commentating is terrible. Knox goes up for a dunk and is fouled and comes down hard. Clearly stunned, and UNC gets to use Marshall for FTs instead of him as Knox walks on his own power to the bench. The next shot of Knox is him sitting on the bench, with a cup of gatorade in his hand and no painful expression. The commentator goes:

"Justin Knox looks extremely unsettled on the bench."

NO! NO HE DOESN'T! WE CAN SEE THAT HE JUST IS DRINKING GATORADE AND LOOKS FINE! TELL IT LIKE IT IS, DON'T FREAKING EXAGGERATE! (and this wasn't Hubie Davis, I don't think).

Sorry pet peeve of mine.

dchen09
11-18-2010, 05:45 PM
Charles Jenkins is really impressive. His team has been terrible but hes keeping his team from being down 30pts.

Really can't take much from this game. Hofstra is just not very good.

ClosetHurleyFan
11-18-2010, 05:48 PM
Charles Jenkins is really impressive. His team has been terrible but hes keeping his team from being down 30pts.

Really can't take much from this game. Hofstra is just not very good.


Well, Harrison Barnes has a very quiet 20 points in first half. Remarkable at scoring without forcing it....

dchen09
11-18-2010, 05:51 PM
Honestly the whole team wasn't forcing it just because hofstra isn't defending very well.

ClosetHurleyFan
11-18-2010, 05:57 PM
Honestly the whole team wasn't forcing it just because hofstra isn't defending very well.


Fair point

Have to say, I think they will be very grateful for picking up Justin Knox. STrong kid, looks bigger than 240....

BattierD12
11-18-2010, 07:46 PM
Other than free throw shooting that makes Shaq look like Scheyer, Maryland's lookin goooood against #4 Pitt.

pfrduke
11-18-2010, 08:00 PM
Comfortable wins for State and Carolina. BC, on the other hand, is losing by 5 at the half. To Yale. At home. Gack.

dchen09
11-18-2010, 08:11 PM
Comfortable wins for State and Carolina. BC, on the other hand, is losing by 5 at the half. To Yale. At home. Gack.

You would think that Steve Donahue would know Yale inside and out.

-jk
11-18-2010, 08:32 PM
You would think that Steve Donahue would know Yale inside and out.

And vice versa, perhaps.

-jk

ice-9
11-18-2010, 08:38 PM
Down by 12 with 5 minutes ago, how embarrassing.

Who knew Brownell would be doing the best among the rookie coaches?

TigerTown
11-18-2010, 09:29 PM
Down by 12 with 5 minutes ago, how embarrassing.

Who knew Brownell would be doing the best among the rookie coaches?

Mmmmmmmmmmm, I did.

loran16
11-18-2010, 09:41 PM
My god Maryland is bad at free throws. Note to guys: DO NOT BE AFRAID TO FOUL THEM. Especially our guards.

Bob Green
11-18-2010, 11:48 PM
State's Ryan Harrow with a double-double of 11 points and ten assists:

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=303220151

Olympic Fan
11-18-2010, 11:50 PM
You can count wins and losses as you want, but as of now ()just short of midnight Thurday night), I look at the ACC start this way --

I see four bad losses (Wake-Stetson and Wake VCU at home; Georgia Tech-Kennesaw State; and Boston College-Yale).

I don't consider Miami at Memphis, VPI at K-State or Maryland-Pittsburgh as bad losses.

But I also don't consider any ACC win so far as a quality win. I'm not sure if I could pick out the "best" ACC win ... Duke over Pricneton? Clemson over Wofford? UNC over Lipscomb?

Virginia is down three at Stanford at the half. If they rally and win, THAT would be the best ACC win to date (and if they lose, I wouldn't rank that as a bad loss).

tbyers11
11-19-2010, 12:07 AM
You can count wins and losses as you want, but as of now ()just short of midnight Thurday night), I look at the ACC start this way --

I see four bad losses (Wake-Stetson and Wake VCU at home; Georgia Tech-Kennesaw State; and Boston College-Yale).

I don't consider Miami at Memphis, VPI at K-State or Maryland-Pittsburgh as bad losses.

But I also don't consider any ACC win so far as a quality win. I'm not sure if I could pick out the "best" ACC win ... Duke over Pricneton? Clemson over Wofford? UNC over Lipscomb?

Virginia is down three at Stanford at the half. If they rally and win, THAT would be the best ACC win to date (and if they lose, I wouldn't rank that as a bad loss).

I agree about the lack of ACC quality wins so far, but I feel that there have only really been the three opportunities that you didn't consider bad losses above and the ACC teams were definite underdogs in all of those. No good surprises but some bad surprises so far.

I do have to disagree about considering Wake losing to VCU a bad loss. At first glance any time an ACC team loses at home to a Colonial team at home it seems like a bad loss, but VCU is a better team than Wake this season. While Pomeroy isn't super accurate this early in the season, he did have VCU as a three point favorite even with the game being played at Wake. Now if you want to consider the 21 point margin of defeat, I will admit that is pretty poor.

Duvall
11-19-2010, 01:08 AM
Down by 12 with 5 minutes ago, how embarrassing.

Who knew Brownell would be doing the best among the rookie coaches?

He was the only one left with a decent amount of talent, so it's not really surprising.

timmy c
11-19-2010, 04:21 AM
ESPN putting Hubie Davis on color during a UNC game is just awful. Seriously.

Also, Hofstra is really bad at rebounding. It's painful to watch so far.

Great points.

1) Hubert was horrible. At one point, he described Zeller as the fastest big guy from end to end in college basketball. I had to throw-up in my mouth! I think a few Plumlee’s might have something to say for that.

2) UNC gobbled up 20 offensive rebounds. The only reason they didn’t have more is that they shot a scorching 70% from beyond three.

DukieInBrasil
11-19-2010, 08:13 AM
I thought Pitt was just gonna blow the Terps out after the first few minutes of the 2nd half, but the Terps showed real heart and made a game of it against a much deeper team by getting decent production from its bench as well. The Terps missed 16 FTs and lost by 9, they win the game if they only shoot 10-16 (62.5%) on those missed ones, but that woulda been shooting 80% FT overall. This game really was decided by the Terps' inability to shoot FTs, more particularly early in the game when they coulda really gone up by quite a bit and gained some more confidence or possibly caused more panic in Pitt.
MD looked like they could once again be a really quality team, but w/o any single player that can carry them like Greivis did on occasion. Jordan Williams looks like he's gonna be really good this year.

JasonEvans
11-19-2010, 09:23 AM
I always root for the ACC, but I am glad Johnny D got a big win last night when Stanford put a hurt on Virginia 81-60 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/19/AR2010111900459.html). It was a close game early in the second half, but Stanford just blitzed them to win big.

Johnny has an excellent 6-man freshman class (http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_16581311) at Stanford that was ranked the best in the Pac Ten this year. His program still has a ways to go to become nationally significant again, but the signs are pointing in the right direction. This was a nice win for him.

--Jason "if they get the right breaks, Stanford could be a bubble team this year" Evans

Slackerb
11-19-2010, 10:04 AM
Javi Gonzalez was out most of the game with foul trouble for State. That allowed Ryan Harrow great game with 11 points, 10 assists, and with only 2 TO.

He's dynamic with his passing and has amazing handles....he's a fun player to watch.

Many more games like that and Javi will be a bench player sooner rather than later.

gw67
11-19-2010, 11:59 AM
It’s amazing but the Terps were able to hang with a deep, experienced and very solid Pitt team last night even though they shot 14-30 from the foul line, 2-14 from three-point territory and were out rebounded 49-28. The positives were that they shot 60% on two-pointers, protected the ball (only nine turnovers) and played tough defense on the perimeter forcing sixteen turnovers. I suspect that a number of Terps fans will write off the poor shooting but the non-freshmen on this team are poor from the free throw line and are not good long range shooters (although not as bad as last night, IMO). This will continue to be an issue until the freshmen begin to log more minutes.

While this team has weaknesses, I see last night’s game on the road as a positive indication that Maryland will be competitive against good teams this year and a 17-19 win season and the standard bubble team scenario will be within reach.

Illinois should be the favorite tonight. They shoot a bunch of three-pointers so it will be tougher for the Terps to stay close unless they are tougher on the boards and their shooting is better.

gw67

Bob Green
11-19-2010, 11:59 AM
State's Tracy Smith has returned to Raleigh to have his knee injury evaluated:

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/packs-smith-sidelined-by-knee-injury

pfrduke
11-19-2010, 03:33 PM
I somehow missed that Clemson's game against Long Beach was part of the Paradise Jam - updated weekend schedule below (numbers still reflecting games through 11/14).

Friday has more tournament play, including the potential (if Maryland upsets Pitt) for the ACC to play for what would hopefully be one of many pre-season tourney titles.

[23]Maryland in NY vs. [9]Illinois/[14]Texas
[16]UNC in Puerto Rico vs. [43]Minnesota/[108]Western Kentucky
[41]NC State in Charleston vs. [76]George Mason/[136]Charlotte
[1]Duke hosts [293]Colgate
[29]Clemson in USVI vs. [110]Long Beach St
[46]Miami hosts [298]NCCU
[78]Georgia Tech hosts [209]Niagara

Saturday
[132]Wake Forest at [257]Elon
[29]Clemson in USVI vs. [49]Old Dominion/[152]St. Peter's

Sunday
[16]UNC in Puerto Rico (TBD)
[29]Clemson in USVI (TBD)
[41]NC State in Charleston (TBD)
[25]Virginia Tech at [303]UNC-Greensboro
[46]Miami at [159]Rutgers

JasonEvans
11-19-2010, 04:22 PM
Saturday
[132]Wake Forest at [257]Elon

Ok, I want predictions!
This is actually a neutral court game. Both Sagarinand KenPom say Wake should win by about 7 points.

So, your options are... will Wake win by more than 14 (blowout), 7-13 points (close, but they covered), less than 7 (a very close game) or will Wake lose (a total disaster).

--Jason "I say they win, but by less than 7 points" Evans

MChambers
11-19-2010, 04:35 PM
Ok, I want predictions!
This is actually a neutral court game. Both Sagarinand KenPom say Wake should win by about 7 points.

So, your options are... will Wake win by more than 14 (blowout), 7-13 points (close, but they covered), less than 7 (a very close game) or will Wake lose (a total disaster).

--Jason "I say they win, but by less than 7 points" Evans

I agree with you. (At one point, I also thought that perhaps Shav's jersey would be retired.)

Kedsy
11-19-2010, 04:41 PM
Ok, I want predictions!
This is actually a neutral court game. Both Sagarinand KenPom say Wake should win by about 7 points.

So, your options are... will Wake win by more than 14 (blowout), 7-13 points (close, but they covered), less than 7 (a very close game) or will Wake lose (a total disaster).

--Jason "I say they win, but by less than 7 points" Evans

What happens if they win by 14? You don't have a category for that. Either way, I'm guessing "blowout" (14 or more).

gw67
11-20-2010, 09:23 AM
The Terps played another top twenty team on the road last night and lost to Illinois 80-76. IMO, it was another good effort, albeit a losing one, by a team trying to fit the pieces together after losing its' top three players to graduation. The Terps shot and rebounded better than they did in Thursday's game but they did not protect the ball as well and, more importantly, Illinois made five more three-pointers.

Other than Duke, there is not another ACC team that could defeat Pitt and I'm not sure that there is another ACC team that could beat Illinois at this point in the season. They are a good shooting team that shares the ball and runs their offense. Potentially, I think that they are as good as the Williams, Brown, Head and Agustine team of a few few years ago.

While they have some obvious weaknesses, I think this year's Maryland team will be in the middle of the pack or higher in the ACC depending on the development of Gregory and their bench. Williams appears to have improved as a soph and may average a double-double.

This may be the year that the Big Ten pounds the ACC. We shall see.

gw67

Olympic Fan
11-20-2010, 09:53 AM
Well, no more bad losses Friday night -- although UNC-Minnesota was disappointing, the Gophers are expected to be an NCAA team ... losing to them is not real;ly humiliqting ... and Maryland's performance against No. 16 Illinois was very credible.

Still, the ACC is looking for its first quality win.

I'd say NC State's victory over George Mason, a quality mid-major, is probably the best thing an ACC team has done so far -- especially withoput Tracy Smith and on a neutral court.

DevilHorns
11-20-2010, 10:15 AM
Well, no more bad losses Friday night -- although UNC-Minnesota was disappointing, the Gophers are expected to be an NCAA team ... losing to them is not real;ly humiliqting ... and Maryland's performance against No. 16 Illinois was very credible.

Still, the ACC is looking for its first quality win.

I'd say NC State's victory over George Mason, a quality mid-major, is probably the best thing an ACC team has done so far -- especially withoput Tracy Smith and on a neutral court.

I'd venture to say UNC losing to Minnesota was a bad loss. The Gophers are good, but they are an un-ranked team and just upended the 8th ranked team in the nation (sure UNC was vastly overrated, but this still does not bode well for the ACC).

I was secretly rooting for MD against Illinois, I think they may quietly be amongst the top of the ACC by the end of the year depending on how they do against UNC and Vtech. Good win for State, was openly rooting for them.

MChambers
11-20-2010, 12:53 PM
Other than Duke, there is not another ACC team that could defeat Pitt and I'm not sure that there is another ACC team that could beat Illinois at this point in the season. They are a good shooting team that shares the ball and runs their offense. Potentially, I think that they are as good as the Williams, Brown, Head and Agustine team of a few few years ago.
We'll see soon enough, because Kerlina plays Illinois in the ACC-Big Ten competition.

Kedsy
11-20-2010, 01:40 PM
Well, no more bad losses Friday night -- although UNC-Minnesota was disappointing...

Speaking only for myself, I wasn't disappointed at all.

InSpades
11-20-2010, 02:00 PM
UNC vs. Vanderbilt on sunday is actually a pretty big game for them I think. After that they have 2 easier games (UNC-Asheville and Charleston) followed by Illinois and Kentucky. If they lose to Vandy they face the very real possibility of being 4-4 after 8 games with no impressive wins to speak of.

JasonEvans
11-21-2010, 09:50 PM
Uuuugh... disastrous day for the conference.

We all know Carolina rolled over and died to Vandy.

Miami fell to 2-2, losing to Rutgers 61-45. You read that right, 45 points. Ouch! That's a bad result for a team that hopes to hear good news on selection Sunday.

Clemson fell to Old Dominion 61-60. ODU is a decent mid-major, but (again) this is the kind of result that could haunt the Tigers in March.

As I write this, Georgetown is pulling away from NC State. It was a close game into the 2nd half, but not any more.

--Jason "at least Va Tech beat UNC-G comfortably. Though that is hardly a quality win" Evans

SMO
11-21-2010, 10:02 PM
Uuuugh... disastrous day for the conference.

We all know Carolina rolled over and died to Vandy.

Miami fell to 2-2, losing to Rutgers 61-45. You read that right, 45 points. Ouch! That's a bad result for a team that hopes to hear good news on selection Sunday.

Clemson fell to Old Dominion 61-60. ODU is a decent mid-major, but (again) this is the kind of result that could haunt the Tigers in March.

As I write this, Georgetown is pulling away from NC State. It was a close game into the 2nd half, but not any more.

--Jason "at least Va Tech beat UNC-G comfortably. Though that is hardly a quality win" Evans

Thank goodness Duke plays a tough non-conference schedule. I fear the competition in the ACC will not challenge them enough. Hopefully the bar rises by January.

Slackerb
11-23-2010, 10:04 AM
Haha, what sheer arrogance....Duke has yet to beat anyone of substance either.

Let's not crown our boys undefeated and running the ACC just yet.