UNC early season form

[Gthoma2a]

They beat Lipscomb, but it was by no means a route. Harrison did okay. He scored 14, had a block, and two assists, but I don't get ESPN's description of the game. "Barnes scores 14 to lift UNC in Opener." This doesn't seem accurate. His stat line is good for a freshman, but if anyone lifted UNC, it would be Henson with 17 boards, seven blocked shots, a steal, and ten points. Zeller had 15 points, a block, two steals, and seven rebounds, but these performances don't amount to Harrison's? The whole team took advantage of a team that couldn't compete at the big positions (Knox seems like he will be easily foul prone, but the others are pretty good). Harrison even had a guy who was 6'3 guarding him for most of the game.

Don't get me wrong, I understand it is the name that is on the UNC faithful's tongues, but doesn't it seem like if Kyrie got 8 points, 5 assists, three steals, but Kyle or Nolan had better numbers, they would get the headline? In one of their videos, they gave him an extra two points to make him sound better. I just find it backwards. Anyone else have thoughts on this stuff?

Oh, and I forgot to mention, Josh Slater (PG) was able to put 21 up on UNC, so I don't see much trouble coming our way with with any of our guards attacking.

[Newton_14]

I only saw the first half but they were certainly not overwhelming. From reading the article on WRAL, they let Lipscomb stay in it most of the 2nd half. I doubt there are the 8th best team in the country at this point.

I am interested to see how they look when the competition stiffens. The 2009 version of the heels would have run that Lipscomb team out of the gym. I thought they looked better than last year but certainly nothing close to their dominant teams from the past.

[loran16]

Drew looked unimpressive, to be sure. But the newcomers (Bullock in paritcular, but Marshall and Barnes too) actually made an impact, and Henson boarded like a beast.

Like most teams, they'll get better...and the fact that the freshmen could contribute gives them hope it won't be like last year.

Also, Lipscomb isn't supposed to be terrible.

Listen, the UNC of old would blow out these guys. But this is basically an all-new UNC Team. Not UNC 09 (A veteran team).

[DevilHorns]

They beat Lipscomb, but it was by no means a route. Harrison did okay. He scored 14, had a block, and two assists, but I don't get ESPN's description of the game. "Barnes scores 14 to lift UNC in Opener." This doesn't seem accurate. His stat line is good for a freshman, but if anyone lifted UNC, it would be Henson with 17 boards, seven blocked shots, a steal, and ten points. Zeller had 15 points, a block, two steals, and seven rebounds, but these performances don't amount to Harrison's? The whole team took advantage of a team that couldn't compete at the big positions (Knox seems like he will be easily foul prone, but the others are pretty good). Harrison even had a guy who was 6'3 guarding him for most of the game.

Don't get me wrong, I understand it is the name that is on the UNC faithful's tongues, but doesn't it seem like if Kyrie got 8 points, 5 assists, three steals, but Kyle or Nolan had better numbers, they would get the headline? In one of their videos, they gave him an extra two points to make him sound better. I just find it backwards. Anyone else have thoughts on this stuff?

Oh, and I forgot to mention, Josh Slater (PG) was able to put 21 up on UNC, so I don't see much trouble coming our way with with any of our guards attacking.

Just peeked at the boxscore and saw the game highlight on ESPN. They are really trying to boost Barnes into a world-beater. They showed highlights of him for 30 seconds, nothing on Zeller, little on Henson, though they did say Henson had the most complete game at the wrap-up on the score screen.

I think most UNC fans would say they are disappointed with his performance against a cupcake team. Though Barnes can't stop what the media writes about him, in the end, his expectations are rocket high and as a NPOY candidate and 1st team preseason All-American, he's going to have a lot of pressure to deliver without a freshman learning curve.

His response to the inter-squad scrimmage and his poor performance in the last exhibition game was to stay in the gym and practices for hours alone in the deep night. I like the work ethic and the focus, but I think the young man may implode if he putting this level of pressure on himself before things really start rolling. The UNC fanbase is not forgiving. Though his performance wasn't necessarily poor today, it definitely wasn't first team All-American worthy.

[Lord Ash]

The numbers certainly don't blow me away, but give Carolina time to gel a bit. Lipscomb is not a terrible team, despite not being a "big name." The expectations for Barnes were sky-high, possibly unfairly so, and the Heels have a LOT to "repair," so all things considering... however, I do think they will end up in the lower Top 25 by the end of the year, and NOT in the top half, as they are right now.

Also... just because this is a Duke forum and I am a bit touchy... there is no "e" in "rout."

[Gthoma2a]

The numbers certainly don't blow me away, but give Carolina time to gel a bit. Lipscomb is not a terrible team, despite not being a "big name." The expectations for Barnes were sky-high, possibly unfairly so, and the Heels have a LOT to "repair," so all things considering... however, I do think they will end up in the lower Top 25 by the end of the year, and NOT in the top half, as they are right now.

Also... just because this is a Duke forum and I am a bit touchy... there is no "e" in "rout."

My bad! The accuracy of my spelling falls as the day wears on.

[Lord Ash]

And as the drinks are finished, I am sure... ;) Happy Friday Night!

[Deslok]

Definitely by no means an overwhelming win. As the season opens, I kind of see UNC as what might be an exemplar of what Ken Pomeroy referred to recently in a blog post (http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/the_pre-season_ap_poll_is_great/) of his. Though his reasoning might be a bit different, I think at the end of the year, UNC's actual rating/worth as a team may be much closer to their current ranking than what their end of the year ranking may end up at. Relying significantly on freshmen, I expect it to be an up and down season, which will leave them borderline top 25 in February and March(though of course, the tendency of poll voters to overrank UNC, like Duke and some others, may alleviate this issue). But by that time, presuming that Williams does a good job with this team, the pieces will gel together, the freshmen will have adjusted to life in college and the differences in the game at this level, and will be a real threat come tourney time. Not that I think they'll go fab 5 or anything, but rather I know as a top seed I wouldn't want to see them in my section of the bracket, because while they might go out early for a number of reasons, they have the talent to match up with anyone. As a result, the preseason poll may better reflect how far in the NCAAs they might go, as opposed to the end of season poll.

[Gthoma2a]

Definitely by no means an overwhelming win. As the season opens, I kind of see UNC as what might be an exemplar of what Ken Pomeroy referred to recently in a blog post (http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/the_pre-season_ap_poll_is_great/) of his. Though his reasoning might be a bit different, I think at the end of the year, UNC's actual rating/worth as a team may be much closer to their current ranking than what their end of the year ranking may end up at. Relying significantly on freshmen, I expect it to be an up and down season, which will leave them borderline top 25 in February and March(though of course, the tendency of poll voters to overrank UNC, like Duke and some others, may alleviate this issue). But by that time, presuming that Williams does a good job with this team, the pieces will gel together, the freshmen will have adjusted to life in college and the differences in the game at this level, and will be a real threat come tourney time. Not that I think they'll go fab 5 or anything, but rather I know as a top seed I wouldn't want to see them in my section of the bracket, because while they might go out early for a number of reasons, they have the talent to match up with anyone. As a result, the preseason poll may better reflect how far in the NCAAs they might go, as opposed to the end of season poll.

They have the talent to match up with anyone? I kind of think differently. I think their guards are going to remain a major liability. Kendall has the best head, but he doesn't have the athleticism, and we know how the others respond to pressure. Tonight, they gave up 21 to a moderately good point guard (we have All-American talent for our guard positions) Harrison is pretty good, but I don't see him as a match for Kyle. I think Zeller, and Henson are very good, but Knox would simply be in there to foul against our backcourt. The problem that they would run into with their bigs is fatigue from trying to deal with a three to four man rotation with players that can play at both ends with differing skillsets (but with the Plumlees ridiculous athleticism that will wear their bigs down over the game; Ryan's outside shot would make their job more difficult) that we can bring. On paper (and it is early), they don't have a lineup that makes me think they can challenge us or the other top level teams. I could be wrong by the end of the season, though. Just my thoughts.

[shoutingncu]

My bad! The accuracy of my spelling falls as the day wears on.

Don't mention the Wears. Carolina would have won by 20 if they hadn't transferred. ;)

[dchen09]

They have the talent to match up with anyone? I kind of think differently. I think their guards are going to remain a major liability. Kendall has the best head, but he doesn't have the athleticism, and we know how the others respond to pressure. Tonight, they gave up 21 to a moderately good point guard (we have All-American talent for our guard positions) Harrison is pretty good, but I don't see him as a match for Kyle. I think Zeller, and Henson are very good, but Knox would simply be in there to foul against our backcourt. The problem that they would run into with their bigs is fatigue from trying to deal with a three to four man rotation with players that can play at both ends with differing skillsets (but with the Plumlees ridiculous athleticism that will wear their bigs down over the game; Ryan's outside shot would make their job more difficult) that we can bring. On paper (and it is early), they don't have a lineup that makes me think they can challenge us or the other top level teams. I could be wrong by the end of the season, though. Just my thoughts.

I actually think that their bigs match up very well with out bigs. If you look at pure front court players, they have Henson, Zeller, and Knox while we have 2 Plumlees and Kelly. While the Plumlees might be about to out jump any of them, both Henson and Zeller are very good at running the court. That is probably their best strength, being able to keep up with the guards in transition. Furthermore, I would say Henson is a more proven commodity as a shot blocker and rebounder than either one of the Plumlees. He got far more playing time last year and if you remember the games we played against UNC, he was one of the lone bright spots on the team. Zeller on the other hand, matches our bigs is size and is more refined offensively. Though he hasn't played much in the past 2 years, he has definitely shown flashes of a nice back to the basket game. If you want to include Singler in the equation, then UNC can also play Barnes at the 4.

The biggest difference is when comparing Knox with Kelly. I think this is where Duke has the clear advantage. Kelly will definitely be able to draw Knox out from the post with his shooting skills and he can also face up and take him off the dribble. Kelly is also a good passer out of the high post, which means that Duke will likely get some nice back door cuts if Knox is trying to guard Kelly.

I'm not saying that UNC has a better front court that Duke. Either Plumlee's strength will cause trouble for Henson while their athleticism will cause trouble for Zeller. I just don't think the difference in front court depth is as large as some people want to believe.

I'm didn't include Hairston in my discussion because I think he's still a little raw to be playing alot of minutes. Of course I hope he proves me wrong (and not at the expense of any of the upperclassmen).

[Gthoma2a]

I am more considering that Hairston can play inside with Henson. Henson is still small enough to be moved, and Hairston is a fourth body that should be able to run fast enough to have some fast breaks. He is also a viable option due to his hands. He catches the ball very well down low and he has a moderate mid range shot. This will keep more pressure on the two to three guys that UNC could realistically use at those positions. Then, if they throw Barnes at the 4, then they leave Singler on a guard with significantly less size. Singler is brilliant at picking apart mismatches. To risk this is to give our guards, who can create on their own enough to warrant help defense, a chance to hit him with a pass. With Kyle's toughness when driving, and his shooting ability, that just means easy points. I am not saying that UNC doesn't have good players, but they don't have enough of them to deal with all that a team like us can do to them.

[oldnavy]

I watched the game with my son the UNC fan (you do what you can to teach them, but... anyway).

It is very early, but I liked what I saw.

First, comments have been made that Lipscomb is a good team, I totally disagree. They were shaken and if they had any poise at all, they could have easily won this game. Henson got 7 blocks in large part because their guards insisted on challenging him under the basket rather than kicking the ball out for an open jumper. I remember one occasion Henson got 2 or maybe three blocks in row. A disciplined team would recognize this and drive and kick, but they kept taking it right into Henson who looked like an father swatting away his 5 year old son's shots on a 8 foot goal. Also, Lipscomb has very little in the way of athleticism or talent for that matter. Hodzic was not much of a factor. I had to laugh at the end of the game when Bob Rathburn made a comment about Hodzic withdrawing from the draft last year so he could get his degree from Lipscomb. NO, Hodzic withdrew from the draft because he was not going to be drafted! He was not impressive. Slater and Boyd were Lipscomb’s best players and neither of them would start on an ACC team. In two or three critical possessions, the Lipscomb players got trapped and instead of calling for time, they panicked and turned the ball over. They had their opportunities to rattle UNC down the stretch but failed by making stupid turnovers or taking bad shots. I admire their effort against an overwhelmingly more talented team, but Lipscomb is not a good team... sorry.

Second, UNC looked a lot like the UNC of old... last year's old. Nothing really flowed on offense for them. I really cannot put my finger on it yet, but it has to be the PG position again. They seemed to plod along, and I only remember a couple of run outs, one really nice one early with HB finishing with a dunk, but not much after that. Mostly a half-court, pass it around the perimeter, boring offensive performance. There was little to no penetration off the dribble. Zeller got most of his points toward the end of the game after Lipscomb started gambling and opened up the middle a little. Roy mentioned that DrewII had shown "drastic" improvement defensively. Well, a rather slow, un-athletic, average-shooting, ACC back up caliper, guard went for 21 on him, so I cannot wait to see what KI does to him. If that was drastic improvement then I must have forgotten how bad LDII was on D last year. Marshall was... OK. He actually shot the ball better than advertised, but he only had 3 assists against 2 turnovers. Not exactly numbers that makes you light up if you are a heel fan looking for a savior at the PG position. Henson was solid on defense, but it was against a very weak front court. Offensively, he was not much of a factor, mostly put backs for 10 points. He really did not create anything on his own. Barnes, was O-K. He looked to be trying a little too hard at times. He is no where near as good at this point as he has been talked up, but you can see that he has potential. I have to agree with the OP, that it is ridiculous for him to get top billing for this game. Henson was the best player for UNC last night, and Bullock was probably the second best. Bullock might get frustrated if his PT doesn’t increase. He played 15 minutes and got 12 points, compared to Barnes’ 27 minutes and 14 points. Compare their stat lines, the only difference is that Bullock was much more efficient while on the court. Marshall looked pretty good in his 11 minutes as well.
Getting back to my original point that nothing flowed on offense. This I believe goes right back to Roy. He continues to substitute in what appears be an erratic manner. I am not a HOF coach, but just watching the game, the substitutions seem to break up the consistency of the offensive patterns. It frustrated the heck out of my 18 year old son, who made the comment that if he were coaching, UNC would be winning by about 30… I believe he may have been right…

[loran16]

I watched the game with my son the UNC fan (you do what you can to teach them, but... anyway).

It is very early, but I liked what I saw.

First, comments have been made that Lipscomb is a good team, I totally disagree. They were shaken and if they had any poise at all, they could have easily won this game. Henson got 7 blocks in large part because their guards insisted on challenging him under the basket rather than kicking the ball out for an open jumper. I remember one occasion Henson got 2 or maybe three blocks in row. A disciplined team would recognize this and drive and kick, but they kept taking it right into Henson who looked like an father swatting away his 5 year old son's shots on a 8 foot goal. Also, Lipscomb has very little in the way of athleticism or talent for that matter. Hodzic was not much of a factor. I had to laugh at the end of the game when Bob Rathburn made a comment about Hodzic withdrawing from the draft last year so he could get his degree from Lipscomb. NO, Hodzic withdrew from the draft because he was not going to be drafted! He was not impressive. Slater and Boyd were Lipscomb’s best players and neither of them would start on an ACC team. In two or three critical possessions, the Lipscomb players got trapped and instead of calling for time, they panicked and turned the ball over. They had their opportunities to rattle UNC down the stretch but failed by making stupid turnovers or taking bad shots. I admire their effort against an overwhelmingly more talented team, but Lipscomb is not a good team... sorry.

Second, UNC looked a lot like the UNC of old... last year's old. Nothing really flowed on offense for them. I really cannot put my finger on it yet, but it has to be the PG position again. They seemed to plod along, and I only remember a couple of run outs, one really nice one early with HB finishing with a dunk, but not much after that. Mostly a half-court, pass it around the perimeter, boring offensive performance. There was little to no penetration off the dribble. Zeller got most of his points toward the end of the game after Lipscomb started gambling and opened up the middle a little. Roy mentioned that DrewII had shown "drastic" improvement defensively. Well, a rather slow, un-athletic, average-shooting, ACC back up caliper, guard went for 21 on him, so I cannot wait to see what KI does to him. If that was drastic improvement then I must have forgotten how bad LDII was on D last year. Marshall was... OK. He actually shot the ball better than advertised, but he only had 3 assists against 2 turnovers. Not exactly numbers that makes you light up if you are a heel fan looking for a savior at the PG position. Henson was solid on defense, but it was against a very weak front court. Offensively, he was not much of a factor, mostly put backs for 10 points. He really did not create anything on his own. Barnes, was O-K. He looked to be trying a little too hard at times. He is no where near as good at this point as he has been talked up, but you can see that he has potential. I have to agree with the OP, that it is ridiculous for him to get top billing for this game. Henson was the best player for UNC last night, and Bullock was probably the second best. Bullock might get frustrated if his PT doesn’t increase. He played 15 minutes and got 12 points, compared to Barnes’ 27 minutes and 14 points. Compare their stat lines, the only difference is that Bullock was much more efficient while on the court. Marshall looked pretty good in his 11 minutes as well.
Getting back to my original point that nothing flowed on offense. This I believe goes right back to Roy. He continues to substitute in what appears be an erratic manner. I am not a HOF coach, but just watching the game, the substitutions seem to break up the consistency of the offensive patterns. It frustrated the heck out of my 18 year old son, who made the comment that if he were coaching, UNC would be winning by about 30… I believe he may have been right…

In 2009, when Roy had a championship caliber team, he did the same thing in the first few games of the season (Hell all the way till conference play) - Play lots of players, substituted in so that multiple lines are used, etc. It's very different from K, but Roy's always done it...and he's won doing it before. So lets be fair here: yes it may have been suboptimal, but let's not assume he'd continue to do in conference play (he didn't last year, fwiw).

Roy tests everyone out in different ways. I actually find that smart myself.

[oldnavy]

In 2009, when Roy had a championship caliber team, he did the same thing in the first few games of the season (Hell all the way till conference play) - Play lots of players, substituted in so that multiple lines are used, etc. It's very different from K, but Roy's always done it...and he's won doing it before. So lets be fair here: yes it may have been suboptimal, but let's not assume he'd continue to do in conference play (he didn't last year, fwiw).

Roy tests everyone out in different ways. I actually find that smart myself.

I think it acutally hurt him last year. There were multiple times last year that Roy would sub out a player who had gotten some momentum. I remember specifically one game where Ginyard had awaken (didn't happen often) and scored about 6 straight points and was getting a bounce in his step and the team seemed to be following his lead. He came out the next whistle and all the momentum left. UNC lost the game (GT?). Both my wife and son who are UNC fans recognized this pattern last year, and I saw it again last night.

It may have worked in the past, but isn't that what Roy said last year about his style? OK, fine with me, keep doing it... it may work or it may not. This was the first game so who knows, they may respond very well to it this year. But no one can say that his style worked last year or that he was smart to do it last year.

[kong123]

I was disappointed with much that I saw last night, but the end result was a win, so we take what we can from it and move on. Zeller, Strickland, and Drew reverted back to last years ways. Strickland didn't look confident last night. He looked like HB did in last weeks exhibition game. Drew looks lackadaisical. I made the comment last night that perhaps playing against our defense in practice is not a good form of preparation for playing against college defenses. Wish our defense could be coached by K. I don't know if its technique or effort, but our guys just don't guard the ball well. The help defense we play will be eaten up by Duke. And, if Duke is on, 82-50 may be a possibility.

I think Lipscomb was a tough opponent for UNC because they were an experienced group. They returned their entire starting five, which I understand most of them would not play on an ACC team, but still- they have experience. Lipscomb game-planned to stop UNC and UNC just planned to go out and execute their own game. I think the team with more talent won, as they should, but it wasn't the performance that was expected.

The IC moderators mentioned in an article that the heat on Drew maybe affecting him. They also said that it appears that replacing him with KM may create some chemistry issues. I remember when Paulas was replaced in the starting lineup a few years ago, I thought to myself that it may affect team chemistry. To my eyes, it did. Kind of like the 93-94 team UNC had where Stackhouse and Wallace deserved to start, but for chemistry reason, Dean played the upper-classmen. I believe that allowing an upper-classmen to start, but give the under-classmen starter minutes is the way to go. One things for sure, Drew sat the bench at the end of the game cause he couldn't make free throws and because he looked dangerous (in a bad way) with the ball. As far as Strickland, if he wants to continue to start, he better wake up. Bullock played great last night and I expect more of the same from him.

[oldnavy]

I was disappointed with much that I saw last night, but the end result was a win, so we take what we can from it and move on. Zeller, Strickland, and Drew reverted back to last years ways. Strickland didn't look confident last night. He looked like HB did in last weeks exhibition game. Drew looks lackadaisical. I made the comment last night that perhaps playing against our defense in practice is not a good form of preparation for playing against college defenses. Wish our defense could be coached by K. I don't know if its technique or effort, but our guys just don't guard the ball well. The help defense we play will be eaten up by Duke. And, if Duke is on, 82-50 may be a possibility.

I think Lipscomb was a tough opponent for UNC because they were an experienced group. They returned their entire starting five, which I understand most of them would not play on an ACC team, but still- they have experience. Lipscomb game-planned to stop UNC and UNC just planned to go out and execute their own game. I think the team with more talent won, as they should, but it wasn't the performance that was expected.

The IC moderators mentioned in an article that the heat on Drew maybe affecting him. They also said that it appears that replacing him with KM may create some chemistry issues. I remember when Paulas was replaced in the starting lineup a few years ago, I thought to myself that it may affect team chemistry. To my eyes, it did. Kind of like the 93-94 team UNC had where Stackhouse and Wallace deserved to start, but for chemistry reason, Dean played the upper-classmen. I believe that allowing an upper-classmen to start, but give the under-classmen starter minutes is the way to go. One things for sure, Drew sat the bench at the end of the game cause he couldn't make free throws and because he looked dangerous (in a bad way) with the ball. As far as Strickland, if he wants to continue to start, he better wake up. Bullock played great last night and I expect more of the same from him.

Kong, this may be the first post of yours that I agree with completely!! (should I be worried???).
I noticed that during one timeout Roy was going at DrewII in the huddle. No big deal, except that after the TO, you could see LDII's body language had changed and he looked... well he looked defeated in a way. Not sure what to make of that, but I did note it.
Bullock was the surprise of the night to me. He seemed very comfortable on the court and was productive. Why only 15 minutes for him?? That will need to change IMO.
I did not expect HB to come out and play like an AA, and to be honest I find the hype and expectations on him to be almost suffocating. He did very well for a freshman, but was a flop for an AA.... UNC better hope that Roy can get in his head in a good way and re-enforce that he is a freshman and forget about the AA tag. Otherwise, I think the kid wants it so bad that he may destroy himself with internal pressure.
Marshall did well enough, way too early to tell about him. I honestly did not see anything that made me think he is going to be really good, but it is just one game…

On a side note; did anyone else flinch when G Man said he would drive 19 hours to get out of Ames as well when Rathburn mentioned some of HB's buds had done that? OUCH!!

[DukieInBrasil]

Marshall totally outplayed Drew. In only 11 minutes compared to Drew's 29 KM had better numbers in every category. His shooting was particularly good while LD IIs couldn't hit a shot and only sank 4-8 FTs. Drew was probably the least impressive player on the whole team. I don't think he keeps his starting spot beyond the next game if there is this sort of productive divergence between the two.

[oldnavy]

Marshall totally outplayed Drew. In only 11 minutes compared to Drew's 29 KM had better numbers in every category. His shooting was particularly good while LD IIs couldn't hit a shot and only sank 4-8 FTs. Drew was probably the least impressive player on the whole team. I don't think he keeps his starting spot beyond the next game if there is this sort of productive divergence between the two.

I would start:
Marshall
Bullock
Henson
Barnes
Zeller

There is no reason this team cannot be very good by the end of the year if they get good coaching....

[sandinmyshoes]

I would start:
Marshall
Bullock
Henson
Barnes
Zeller

There is no reason this team cannot be very good by the end of the year if they get good coaching....

That would be my starting five as well. Of course, it's based on just one game.

I had a laugh at all of us geniuses during the first half of that game. On another thread we were arguing about how capable Marshall was going to be. The one thing we all seemed to agree on was that his strength was as a poised, passing point guard, and that he had limited offensive abilities and was a defensive liability.

So, he throws two really bad 3/4 court passes, finishes the half with no assists, but hits a three, got a couple of steals and scores 8 points to be tied for the scoring lead at the half.

What I saw. Potential there. Larry Drew can still come unhinged -- I thought it was telling that Williams had Marshall in to finish the game.

UNC's interior defense depends on Henson blocking shots. Neither he or Zeller can or will put a body on post players. Knox will probably see some time because he at least seemed willing to throw his body around.

The Bison did a good job of doubling down. Zeller and Henson were too slow in their reactions to the doubles. The Bison also gambled with only sending two players to the boards in an effort to curtail UNC's fastbreak, and they got away with it thanks to a lot of long rebounds off of missed threes.

At some point, Williams is going to have to ask himself, what's the toughest lineup I can put on the floor. There is a lot of finesse with that team and not much grit, imo.

On the plus side. If, and they probably will, they get more cohesive, they have some scorers and some long, quick potential on defense.

[Kdogg]

I would start:
Marshall
Bullock
Henson
Barnes
Zeller


So would most of the fans. There's no way Roy starts three freshman this early in the season.

[sandinmyshoes]

So would most of the fans. There's no way Roy starts three freshman this early in the season.

I wonder, though, how soon that lineup might play a majority of minutes and be in the game to finish it. Well, excepting maybe Henson at the end of games. That kid is a terrible free throw shooter.

One additional problem would be Drew. Very fragile psyche it seems to me. I wouldn't be surprised if Williams didn't start him, but with Marshall actually getting more minutes before ACC play begins.

[dukelifer]

I was disappointed with much that I saw last night, but the end result was a win, so we take what we can from it and move on. Zeller, Strickland, and Drew reverted back to last years ways. Strickland didn't look confident last night. He looked like HB did in last weeks exhibition game. Drew looks lackadaisical. I made the comment last night that perhaps playing against our defense in practice is not a good form of preparation for playing against college defenses. Wish our defense could be coached by K. I don't know if its technique or effort, but our guys just don't guard the ball well. The help defense we play will be eaten up by Duke. And, if Duke is on, 82-50 may be a possibility.

I think Lipscomb was a tough opponent for UNC because they were an experienced group. They returned their entire starting five, which I understand most of them would not play on an ACC team, but still- they have experience. Lipscomb game-planned to stop UNC and UNC just planned to go out and execute their own game. I think the team with more talent won, as they should, but it wasn't the performance that was expected.

The IC moderators mentioned in an article that the heat on Drew maybe affecting him. They also said that it appears that replacing him with KM may create some chemistry issues. I remember when Paulas was replaced in the starting lineup a few years ago, I thought to myself that it may affect team chemistry. To my eyes, it did. Kind of like the 93-94 team UNC had where Stackhouse and Wallace deserved to start, but for chemistry reason, Dean played the upper-classmen. I believe that allowing an upper-classmen to start, but give the under-classmen starter minutes is the way to go. One things for sure, Drew sat the bench at the end of the game cause he couldn't make free throws and because he looked dangerous (in a bad way) with the ball. As far as Strickland, if he wants to continue to start, he better wake up. Bullock played great last night and I expect more of the same from him.

First game of a long season. This team has a lot of time to gel and they have the talent. The issues with Drew however are a concern. UNC needs its point guard to be playing well. Chemistry will make or break this team. If they start winning- then it will come together but a few tough losses - coupled with folks looking over their shoulder- and who knows. It is all about confidence.

[_TheFakeJWill_]

I wasn't impressed with UNC at all. Zeller will be a good scorer down low and will average double figures this season. Henson is a beast when it come to blocked shots and rebounds but is one of the worst offensive players Ive seen in a UNC uniform. Drew II is the exact same as last year. Barnes didn't impress at all! Average player IMO (but it is just one game)

The 2 surprises for me is Bullock, much better than i would have thought. He can rebound and has a nice feel for the game and Marshall looked really good in the offense. I wouldn't be surprised if he started over Drew. just my 2 cents.

[RoyalBlue08]

I am surprised everyone is so down on Drew. I think he still has the potential to be quite a good player, and I like him alot more than Marshall. The thing I am getting sick of (already) is the praise for HB. He is a very good, well rounded, player with a game much more mature than his years. But when I hear words like "explosive" and "lightening quick" to describe him, I'm just not seeing it with my eyes. To me, I see him having a year very similar to Kyle's freshman year...which is obviously very good for a freshman but at the same time not living up to the incredible amount of hype surrounding him.

[JMarley50]

I saw where Roy was ranting about door locks during the post game press conference. I can't stop laughing about that one. I can't decide if he was trying to divert the attention away from his team's unimpressive performance or if he was really worried about people taking him seriously without his jacket. Maybe if he hadn't dressed like a magician, and put HB in a pumpkin costume, his seriousness wouldn't be in question.

One thing is for certain though.... Coach K will now have to replace all of the door locks with crappier ones to prevent Duke from having an unfair recruiting advantage. :cool:

[oldnavy]

I am surprised everyone is so down on Drew. I think he still has the potential to be quite a good player, and I like him alot more than Marshall. The thing I am getting sick of (already) is the praise for HB. He is a very good, well rounded, player with a game much more mature than his years. But when I hear words like "explosive" and "lightening quick" to describe him, I'm just not seeing it with my eyes. To me, I see him having a year very similar to Kyle's freshman year...which is obviously very good for a freshman but at the same time not living up to the incredible amount of hype surrounding him.

I don't think anyone could live up to this hype. No one has in the past, because no other freshman in the history of pre-season AA teams has been named to the 1st team. I'm telling anyone who will listen, that this is an ENORMOUS amount of pressure to put on a kid. He will have to be very special to not have problems with it this year, because the media has built him up, and they love to tear down what they build up!! To be honest, I hate to see it, because I think (Skype withstanding) that he is probably a good kid who just happened to pick the wrong school.

As far as LDII, I agree. He is not as bad as he is made out to be, but I do think that he is starting to believe the criticism and begin to have some self doubt. I could see it last night in his facial expressions and body language. He was on a short leash before the season, and last night did nothing to help his case, UNC may be on the verge of losing him (mentally).

[ACCBBallFan]

Just peeked at the boxscore and saw the game highlight on ESPN. They are really trying to boost Barnes into a world-beater. They showed highlights of him for 30 seconds, nothing on Zeller, little on Henson, though they did say Henson had the most complete game at the wrap-up on the score screen.

I think most UNC fans would say they are disappointed with his performance against a cupcake team. Though Barnes can't stop what the media writes about him, in the end, his expectations are rocket high and as a NPOY candidate and 1st team preseason All-American, he's going to have a lot of pressure to deliver without a freshman learning curve.

His response to the inter-squad scrimmage and his poor performance in the last exhibition game was to stay in the gym and practices for hours alone in the deep night. I like the work ethic and the focus, but I think the young man may implode if he putting this level of pressure on himself before things really start rolling. The UNC fanbase is not forgiving. Though his performance wasn't necessarily poor today, it definitely wasn't first team All-American worthy.I watched the game and those highlights ESPN showed are about all that stood out for Harrison Barnes who had a quiet 16 points, after hitting his first shot.

So if he does start to show that flash, Barnes could rack up some impressive stats.

When I try to factor in all the stats including shooting %'s,

Rating UNC Player

54 John Henson

46 Tyler Zeller
46 Harrison Barnes

34 Reggie Bullock
32 Larry Drew II

29 Kendall Marshall
26 Dexter Strickland
22 Leslie McDonald
20 Justin Knox

16 Justin Watts

[-jk]

I watched the game and those highlights ESPN showed are about all that stood out for Harrison Barnes who had a quiet 16 points, after hitting his first shot.

So if he does start to show that flash, Barnes could rack up some impressive stats.

When I try to factor in all the stats including shooting %'s,

Rating UNC Player

54 John Henson

46 Tyler Zeller
46 Harrison Barnes

34 Reggie Bullock
32 Larry Drew II

29 Kendall Marshall
26 Dexter Strickland
22 Leslie McDonald
20 Justin Knox

16 Justin Watts

What's the formula you use for this?

-jk

[meloveduke]

I have to say is wow. At one point in the game lipscomb was shooting below 30 percent from the floor, but only down by 6. On paper you say that's good d from unc, but fact was that lipscomb just stunk more last night then unc. Barns did not show me anything but his jumping and running. His Defence was laughable (can't wait till he has to put up with Kyle) at best. I know its the first game and all but come on, your the number two player out of high school. When the heels had the ball he was defended by a 6'3 gaurd. There where countless times he got the ball one on one and couldn't get by his man and had to pass it.

This team could be really good if Roy didn't coach them, he needs to just recruit for them and let someone else coach.

[Gthoma2a]

I have to say is wow. At one point in the game lipscomb was shooting below 30 percent from the floor, but only down by 6. On paper you say that's good d from unc, but fact was that lipscomb just stunk more last night then unc. Barns did not show me anything but his jumping and running. His Defence was laughable (can't wait till he has to put up with Kyle) at best. I know its the first game and all but come on, your the number two player out of high school. When the heels had the ball he was defended by a 6'3 gaurd. There where countless times he got the ball one on one and couldn't get by his man and had to pass it.

This team could be really good if Roy didn't coach them, he needs to just recruit for them and let someone else coach.

Roy couldn't help it. His influence as a coach was hurt last night by the fact that the locks kept him from getting his suit jacket. You can't be taken seriously as a businessman without a suit and tie! He was helpless out there! Once he gets rid of the childproor locks, he will be back to good Ol' Roy out there (still incompetent, but, at least, confident).

[BD80]

Roy couldn't help it. His influence as a coach was hurt last night by the fact that the locks kept him from getting his suit jacket. You can't be taken seriously as a businessman without a suit and tie! He was helpless out there! Once he gets rid of the childproor locks, he will be back to good Ol' Roy out there (still incompetent, but, at least, confident).

The suitcoat was just a ruse, ol' roy was using a clever ploy to prove that there was a duplicate key to the wardroom icebox ...

They laughed at him and made jokes but he proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with... geometric logic... that a duplicate key to the wardroom icebox DID exist, and he'd have produced that key if they hadn't sounded the horn for the second half. He knows now they were only trying to protect some fellow unc employees ...

http://www.edbatista.com/images/2009/08/Captain_Queeg.jpg
http://www.chathamjournal.com/weekly/moxiepix/b1_3485.jpg

[JamesMeade]

I have yet to be impressed with harrison barnes' play but he surely will have his moments this season. If Ol Roy knows whats good for him He'll be going with

Marshall
Henson
Bullock
Barnes
Zeller

as it stands right now Henson may be their most valuable player IMO.

[Devilsfan]

I saw their game against D3 Libscomb and I can truthfully say, THEY SUCK!

[gumbomoop]

Barnes.... I know it's the first game and all but come on, you're the number two player out of high school....

A delicious throwaway line. Just can't let it pass without a salute.

[billyj]

Their freshmen looked good though, however I don't see why Barnes gets so much hype.

[Cockabeau]

Harrison Barnes is not very explosive at all. Very good yes, but nowhere near the John Wall type of talent he was hyped to be.

[BD80]

Harrison Barnes is not very explosive at all. Very good yes, but nowhere near the John Wall type of talent he was hyped to be.

QUIET dammit!

Just let that unc hype machine keep churning out harrison sausage and telling us its Prime Beef. If hb is exposed as being a smart, talented player with limited athleticsm (you know - like a Dukie ;) ) he might stick around for a couple of years. I'd rather the press convince some NBA GM that hb is lottery material - it only takes one. And you know that there are enough GMs that will ignore their own scouts and listen to the talking heads to make this feasible.

So, shhhhhhh!

[kong123]

QUIET dammit!

Just let that unc hype machine keep churning out harrison sausage and telling us its Prime Beef. If hb is exposed as being a smart, talented player with limited athleticsm (you know - like a Dukie ;) ) he might stick around for a couple of years. I'd rather the press convince some NBA GM that hb is lottery material - it only takes one. And you know that there are enough GMs that will ignore their own scouts and listen to the talking heads to make this feasible.

So, shhhhhhh!

a quiet 16 pts in a season opener and he is overrated and a bust! UNC didn't have a player at the 1,2, or 3 that could have had a quiet 16 pts last year. If one of those guys would have scored 16 pts, it would have been shocking and quite noticeable.

[Gthoma2a]

a quiet 16 pts in a season opener and he is overrated and a bust! UNC didn't have a player at the 1,2, or 3 that could have had a quiet 16 pts last year. If one of those guys would have scored 16 pts, it would have been shocking and quite noticeable.

14 points. ESPN reported 16 by mistake in their first report. The second, and the stat line, says 14. It isn't that, it is the last exhibition thrown in with this. This is coupled by the fact that even during the All-American games down to right now, I have yet to see a single play that showed raw athleticism. He is great at trailing for a light dunk, but he is not ever one to bring down the house. The games, thus far, show him to be a pretty good shooter, and a smart 6'8 player. He reminds me more of a taller Scheyer than he reminds me of a John Wall. Nolan, Andre, and a couple others on our team seem to have more athleticism. His ceiling seems to be where Kyle is now IMO. I could be wrong, but this is who he seems to be after all of the footage available to me is watched.

I would love to see him go to the NBA and continue to do his Michael Jordan impression in interviews. It is funny when average players do that. It would also be nice for UNC's "next Jordan" fall on his face in the NBA. The reason that this is true is that it would hurt your recruiting pitch. When you have a guy who you hype up this much, and he fails, it is gold for a coach who objectively looks at NBA performance of stars, "look what they did with Harrison Barnes." It will be a chance for our recruits to mentally take note of, "where is that guy?" I have a lot more confidence in Kyrie's athleticism, and coaching, taking him to success in the next level. He is at a tough position, but he has moves, will learn discipline, and he has that quality of athleticism that is so important at the highest level.

[Kedsy]

a quiet 16 pts in a season opener and he is overrated and a bust! UNC didn't have a player at the 1,2, or 3 that could have had a quiet 16 pts last year. If one of those guys would have scored 16 pts, it would have been shocking and quite noticeable.

Well, maybe, although according to ESPN (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=303160153) he only had 14 points. I think the point is that 14 (or even 16) quiet points against a low-major isn't really the stuff first-team All Americans are made of. In that sense he may be overrated, because it will be surprising (at least to me) if he's a first-team AA by the end of the year.

Having said that, I agree with you that anyone who's calling him a "bust" at this point is being a little bit silly.

[Lord Ash]

Or even VERY silly. I always hate when folks jump on stuff like this, because it almost guarantees that the Basketball Gods will give Barnes a 43 point game at Cameron.

[Cockabeau]

a quiet 16 pts in a season opener and he is overrated and a bust! UNC didn't have a player at the 1,2, or 3 that could have had a quiet 16 pts last year. If one of those guys would have scored 16 pts, it would have been shocking and quite noticeable.

Yes...and did I not say he was a skilled and very good player? I thought he was in the lineage of Rose,Wall,Durant,etc. combination of skill AND elite athleticism. Barnes is NOT an elite athlete....nowhere close to it. what a bunch of hype and I bought it too

[Devilsfan]

Yeah, that's the guy!

[Gthoma2a]

I am not calling him a bust. I am saying he isn't that athletic, and he will likely be a good college player, but not the "next Jordan" that a lot of people have been calling him.

[Devilsfan]

Jordan? One former Carolina "star" that played in multiple final fours says his ram club buddies are comparing him to Kobe. lol.

[Gthoma2a]

That's worse, I like Kobe. lol

In all seriousness, I think he will be very good, but he is not going to be a Lebron or Kobe that went to college. He does not have the ability to dominate the world the way him, and his UNC people, want to pretend he can.

[JasonEvans]

I am not sure which is more silly, Carolina fans comparing Barnes to Kobe/Jordan or Duke fans saying he is a bust because he only scored 14 points in their opening game and did not posterize anyone with a Sportscenter-worthy dunk.

--Jason "Puh-lease!!" Evans

[_TheFakeJWill_]

Hey call me bias but id pick Kyrie any day over Barnes. But this is coming from a guy with no pitchforks ;)

[NashvilleDevil]

That's worse, I like Kobe. lol

In all seriousness, I think he will be very good, but he is not going to be a Lebron or Kobe that went to college. He does not have the ability to dominate the world the way him, and his UNC people, want to pretend he can.

One game for the kid. Just think what opposing fans will say about Kyrie if he does not look like the 2nd coming of Isiah Thomas tonight?

[Gthoma2a]

One game for the kid. Just think what opposing fans will say about Kyrie if he does not look like the 2nd coming of Isiah Thomas tonight?

It isn't just one game for me. I have seen a few and he has always looked like a very good player who just isn't electrifying. If nothing else, Kyrie will always have the athleticism. Athleticism is one of the things you can't learn, so that is the reason for my appraisal. I am the first to admit that I could be wrong, but I have seen a decent bit of tape that shows that he is just a good smart player with moderate athleticism.

[NashvilleDevil]

It isn't just one game for me. I have seen a few and he has always looked like a very good player who just isn't electrifying. If nothing else, Kyrie will always have the athleticism. Athleticism is one of the things you can't learn, so that is the reason for my appraisal. I am the first to admit that I could be wrong, but I have seen a decent bit of tape that shows that he is just a good smart player with moderate athleticism.

Okay but I am going to reserve judgement on the kid. I think he is going to be good and was probably pressing against Lipscomb to try and prove his pre-season AA selection.

[tylervinyard]

Hey call me bias but id pick Kyrie any day over Barnes. But this is coming from a guy with no pitchforks ;)

I'll admit I'm happier to have Kyrie than Barnes, but it's mainly because the point guard is the most important position on the court. I'd rather have the top point guard than the top wing forward, especially when you have LDII, Marshall and Strickland "attempting" to get Barnes the ball. Barnes has to rely on point guards that are not of the caliber of Irving. Plus, Carolina's offense relies more on point guards and post play. I do wonder how much Williams can adapt his offense to get Barnes more touches, because he had all kinds of trouble adapting last year to his personnel. Kyrie is definitely flashier than Barnes, but Barnes plays so fluidly, that I think most people will be deceived into thinking he's not as athletic as they think a #1 recruit, National Player of the Year, etc. should be. Hey, he obviously made a mistake not coming to Duke where our players are alarmingly unathletic! He would have fit right into that ridiculous narrative repeated ad nauseum last year.

[CEF1959]

I am not calling him a bust. I am saying he isn't that athletic, and he will likely be a good college player, but not the "next Jordan" that a lot of people have been calling him.

I can't imagine what it must be like for an 18 year old kid to be so heavily scrutinized. Great kid, great basketball talent. I liked the guy and his game when he was our recruit. Now I wish him well, but it's a shame he's in baby blue. And it'd be good if he choked in a couple games against a better shade of blue this year.

Still, nice kid. I wish him well in his life.

[kong123]

Yes...and did I not say he was a skilled and very good player? I thought he was in the lineage of Rose,Wall,Durant,etc. combination of skill AND elite athleticism. Barnes is NOT an elite athlete....nowhere close to it. what a bunch of hype and I bought it too

Actually, I never was under the illusion that he was an "elite" athlete in the vain of Kobe or Lebron. In fact, that was always the rub on him. He was a great scorer with a high basketball IQ, but wasn't an "elite" athlete like one of those guys. Maybe you made it up?

[kong123]

and here is video of him at the Pro-Am earlier this year. I see plenty of athleticism. Hopefully he has as much success as your nonathletic team did last year!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mubYknvQec8

[kong123]

i would be happy with Paul Pierce comparisons. Pierce is a great scorer and isn't physically as gifted as Kobe or Lebron. However, he is a big game player who can score in many different ways. Plus, if you underestimate him, he will throw one down on your head.

[Cockabeau]

and here is video of him at the Pro-Am earlier this year. I see plenty of athleticism. Hopefully he has as much success as your nonathletic team did last year!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mubYknvQec8

he is 6'8" and can dunk, i am impressed

[kong123]

he is 6'8" and can dunk, i am impressed

well, when you make an absolute statement like "Barnes is NOT an elite athlete....nowhere close to it" after watching one game, then I am not surprised that you are not impressed by him. Wonder if he scored 16 pts for Duke in a season opener, would you have sung his praises for playing within the system and scoring a quiet 16 pt's? Probably. But, in the end, this is what the pitchforks are for.:cool:

[Gthoma2a]

well, when you make an absolute statement like "Barnes is NOT an elite athlete....nowhere close to it" after watching one game, then I am not surprised that you are not impressed by him. Wonder if he scored 16 pts for Duke in a season opener, would you have sung his praises for playing within the system and scoring a quiet 16 pt's? Probably. But, in the end, this is what the pitchforks are for.:cool:

It isn't that he is that bad, but it is that the praise is that high. When you hear "number 1 draft pick, right there" about a guy, it had better be speaking about a guy who looks as dominant as John Wall did. The headline after the game goes to him, but the game was dominated by Zeller and, most of all, Henson. These are the things that get him looked at as just a very good freshman. He just isn't a phenom. He didn't look that dominant during his All-Star games, he trails to get his dunks most of the time, he doesn't ever really show that he is dynamic, and that is not what is going to keep him being talked about as guy who deserves a shoe deal (John Wall). He is more of a Luol Deng or perhaps an Evan Turner (I love Luol Deng, and Turner is what he could be later on in his college career, say Junior or Senior year).

[kong123]

look, I understand he isn't a freakish athlete.

I also remember that he was the MVP in each of the all-star games he played in this past summer. I believe that Kyle S. is a good comparison for HB. But, I believe that HB is a better athlete than KS. Once HB gains the experience that KS has, he will be a much more dynamic player than he currently is. I think everyone will agree with this. However, there is always the chance that HB doesn't achieve that level and unfortunately will be labeled a bust because of all the press hype. It is unfortunate that all of this pressure exists in today's world, but these are the times we live in.

The same pressure is there for KI. He has been given the keys to a NC machine and if he doesn't win a NC next year, how will he be seen?

[jipops]

look, I understand he isn't a freakish athlete.

I also remember that he was the MVP in each of the all-star games he played in this past summer. I believe that Kyle S. is a good comparison for HB. But, I believe that HB is a better athlete than KS. Once HB gains the experience that KS has, he will be a much more dynamic player than he currently is. I think everyone will agree with this. However, there is always the chance that HB doesn't achieve that level and unfortunately will be labeled a bust because of all the press hype. It is unfortunate that all of this pressure exists in today's world, but these are the times we live in.

The same pressure is there for KI. He has been given the keys to a NC machine and if he doesn't win a NC next year, how will he be seen?

Reports are that HB is obsessed with analyzing his game and getting better. I've heard where he watches game film in his free time. If he truly does stay this committed while trying to fit into the team concept he'll reach the hype. Maybe HB doesn't have the freakish athleticism, maybe he won't be the next Jordan or Kobe, or maybe he will be the next Kobe. Or maybe he'll be the first Harrison Barnes. Kobe isn't the best athlete on his own team right now but he's still one of the NBA's best players. I think Barnes has a lot more going for him athletically than Deng.

[DUKIECB]

Harrison Barnes has played exactly one collegiate game and according to this (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1011/cbb.best.freshman.all.time/content.1.html) he is one of the best freshman to ever play college ball.

Give me a break!

[Bluedog]

Harrison Barnes has played exactly one collegiate game and according to this (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1011/cbb.best.freshman.all.time/content.1.html) he is one of the best freshman to ever play college ball.

Give me a break!

Well, to be fair, it doesn't say he is one of the best freshman yet. It just starts with him as a reason for piquing interest at looking at the best freshmen from the past.


If he wants to be one of the best freshmen in NCAA history however, he has his work cut out for him. SI.com takes a look at the competition.

But, still, somewhat ridiculous.

[Duke of Nashville]

Harrison Barnes has played exactly one collegiate game and according to this (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1011/cbb.best.freshman.all.time/content.1.html) he is one of the best freshman to ever play college ball.

Give me a break!

He's that Dude.

[JasonEvans]

Harrison Barnes has played exactly one collegiate game and according to this (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1011/cbb.best.freshman.all.time/content.1.html) he is one of the best freshman to ever play college ball.

Give me a break!

In fairness, the story says:


If he wants to be one of the best freshmen in NCAA history however, he has his work cut out for him. SI.com takes a look at the competition.

Still, even discussing it at this point seems silly. As many have noted, Sullinger looks like a better freshman right now.

--Jason "lets see what Barnes does in his first 4 or 5 games, at least, before even thinking about this silliness" Evans

[jv001]

Harrison Barnes has played exactly one collegiate game and according to this (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1011/cbb.best.freshman.all.time/content.1.html) he is one of the best freshman to ever play college ball.

Give me a break!

Think SI curse..Go Duke!

[MChambers]

Think SI curse..Go Duke!

Interesting how many of them did not have particularly distinguished professional careers.

[deezl]

Those kids Sullinger and Irving disagree. I however think no one is as good at their position as Sullinger as far as freshman go. First few games into the season or not.

[oldnavy]

Looks like HB is making a better case for himself, 17 points in the first half against Hofstra. Not bad...

[kong123]

well, 19 in the first half and zero for the second. not a very balanced game, but didn't need him too much.

cannot remember a time that a UNC team shot 70% for the game from three. very impressive, regardless of the opponent.

they couldn't stop reigning CAA player of the year Jenkins from getting 20 in the first half, but the slowed him down for only 4 in the second half. Most of the shots he made in the first were contested quite well, but he made them anyway.

Marshall had 9 assists, 2 TO's, and 2 steals in 16 minutes. He knows how to get guys the ball in great scoring positions. Knox missed a few lay in's from close range or else Marshall's tally would have been higher.

Drew's line was 6 assists to 1 TO.

Early season game against a young and much less athletically gifted team, but it was still good to see the Heels dominate a team and finish them strong.

Talking to one of my closest Duke friends after the game, I told him that UNC favored last years Duke team more than they favored any recent UNC team. The bulk of their scoring talent will be come from the perimeter. I do not feel that UNC's perimeter shooting will be as consistent as Duke's, but I do believe the big guys from UNC will provide more consistent play in the interior. Its early, but perhaps this UNC team that showed up tonight can be a top 10 team this season. Regardless, it was nice to see a really strong performance from a rather young team.

[Devilsfan]

unc seems to be in mid season form. My how ol'roy gets the most out of his personel so early in the season is simply amazing. How does the saying go? "This is as good as it gets".

[dukeimac]

It is unfortunate that all of this pressure exists in today's world, but these are the times we live in.


The problem with this statement is, in HB's case, he brought it on himself. When you do what he did when he announced which college he picked, then you are asking for it.

Much like LaBron did. I don't care for the pro game so it doesn't matter to me but, until he wins a title he will ALWAYS have all the pressure of the NBA put on him. When you yourself bring the attention to you, you must carry the burden.

[Devilsfan]

Heard that Kobe, Lebron, Dwayne, and Kevin Durant are planning visits to watch this phenom so they can pick up some pointers on how to play the game not to mention how to use skype effectively in gaining peoples respect.

[Newton_14]

The problem with this statement is, in HB's case, he brought it on himself. When you do what he did when he announced which college he picked, then you are asking for it.

Much like LaBron did. I don't care for the pro game so it doesn't matter to me but, until he wins a title he will ALWAYS have all the pressure of the NBA put on him. When you yourself bring the attention to you, you must carry the burden.

I agree with you, but the media hasn't done him any favors either. The Pre-Season First Team AA selection was ridiculous. HB is not Kevin Durant. Not even close.

G-Man was on the Packman show tonight and he talked about the pressure and how hard it will be to live up to the expectations. Roy told G-Man that in all his years he had never come close to having a kid with this much hype around him.

G-Man also mentioned that when HB hit that first shot in the game at the Dean Dome, he said the way the crowd reacted and roared you would have thought it was Jordan hitting the jumper in New Orleans. Like you, I do not feel bad for him because he did create the HB "Branded Image".

FWIW, G-Man stated his thoughts on UNC and as expected he felt the Top 10 ranking was well beyond where they actually are. I got distracted when he was ranking the current top ACC teams, but if I heard him correctly he had Duke, VA Tech, NC State, and UNC at 1 through 4 based on the games so far.

[striker219]

Those kids Sullinger and Irving disagree. I however think no one is as good at their position as Sullinger as far as freshman go. First few games into the season or not.

*ding*ding*ding*ding*ding*

We have a winner folks.

Now granted, I've only seen Jared Sullinger play one game, but he was absurdly good against what is supposed to be a pretty decent Florida team. And that Irvin kid, or Irvine, or whatever his name is, he's okay too.

For the sole purpose of being able to brag in 6 months, I'm going to put it in writing right now. HB will be, at best, the third best freshman this year behind (1) Jared Sullinger and (2) Kyrie Irving. Although the three of them together is a pretty darn good start to an amazing All-Freshman team.

[WiJoe]

Looks like HB is making a better case for himself, 17 points in the first half against Hofstra. Not bad...

Are you masquerading as kong?

[amazinballer323]

Did SI even watch Durant's freshmen season?

[oldnavy]

Are you masquerading as kong?

Them's fighting words!!

No, just stating facts. I didn't watch the game, but I did see the stat line late in the first half and HB was 4-4 from 3pt land and had missed maybe only one shot, so he was playing well. I am interested to see what happened and why he did not score any second half points....

[kong123]

HB didn't get many touches in the second half and when he did, the entire team collapsed on him. He missed the two or three shots he took.

[oldnavy]

Ok, just looked at the box score. A couple of things stand out:

-50 rebounds is ridiculous, were they playing a team of dwarfs who couldn't box out??
-Shooting 57% at the line will not get it done
-Bullock only got 13 mins, how long before this blow hard starts acting out???
-HB had good 1st half numbers, really good, but nothing in the second half... humm? Probably nothing to it.
-70% from 3pt land is not going to happen very often if ever again

So, it is hard to say just looking at the numbers, but looks like a typical game where one team is way WAY more talented than the other and wins easily. I am not going to take a lot away from this win.

I did read where the "we want biscuits" chant was revised... is this not the lamest chant in sports anywhere? I mean come on, begging for biscuits... really?

[kong123]

Ok, just looked at the box score. A couple of things stand out:

-50 rebounds is ridiculous, were they playing a team of dwarfs who couldn't box out??
-Shooting 57% at the line will not get it done
-Bullock only got 13 mins, how long before this blow hard starts acting out???
-HB had good 1st half numbers, really good, but nothing in the second half... humm? Probably nothing to it.
-70% from 3pt land is not going to happen very often if ever again

So, it is hard to say just looking at the numbers, but looks like a typical game where one team is way WAY more talented than the other and wins easily. I am not going to take a lot away from this win.

I did read where the "we want biscuits" chant was revised... is this not the lamest chant in sports anywhere? I mean come on, begging for biscuits... really?

wow, i thought you were starting to come around a bit.

commenting on the game by just looking at the box score isn't really a valid commentary.

I agree, shooting 57% from the line will not be good enough against most opponents, but I think UNC will be much better from the line.

I agree that drawing any kind of negative conclusion from HB not scoring in the second half would be silly. UNC won by 40+ points. If UNC lost the game and HB didn't contribute, then perhaps there would be some validity.

As far as Bullock. I think calling him a "blow hard" is a bit low, but I know why you dislike him. I think that little "ratface" comment miss characterized him quite a bit. He is a good kid with a good head on his shoulders and I do not think he will say or do anything to complain about a lack of playing time. I think there are just too many guys at the 2. Dexter got 23 minutes and Leslie McDonald got 15 minutes. Both are sophomores and both had great games last night. Watching the game and not simply reading a combination of numbers would have allowed better insight into the game.

[devildad12]

Think SI curse..Go Duke!

Shhh about SI. Have you seen the latest cover?

[Starter]

Interesting how many of them did not have particularly distinguished professional careers.

Not that I think this necessarily reflects in any way on Barnes, but in the interest of fairness, six of the 14 guys SI listed are all-time great NBA players or are headed in that direction (Durant, Anthony). Of the rest of them, all but Pervis Ellison were at the very least solid players in the League or have the potential to be. (Note: I'm counting Bernard King as an all-time great because it's my duty as a Knicks fan, but he did average over 22 ppg for his career, including one season where he averaged over 32.) Jury's still out on Hansbrough and Beasley, though the verdict is looking pretty good for Beasley, who's killing it right now.

[MChambers]

Not that I think this necessarily reflects in any way on Barnes, but in the interest of fairness, six of the 14 guys SI listed are all-time great NBA players or are headed in that direction (Durant, Anthony). Of the rest of them, all but Pervis Ellison were at the very least solid players in the League or have the potential to be. (Note: I'm counting Bernard King as an all-time great because it's my duty as a Knicks fan, but he did average over 22 ppg for his career, including one season where he averaged over 32.) Jury's still out on Hansbrough and Beasley, though the verdict is looking pretty good for Beasley, who's killing it right now.
Agreed that most were solid players. I'd argue that Chris Jackson didn't do much, but I'm too lazy to look up his statistics. I think Ellison would have been solid, but for injuries.
Just trying to point out that being one of best freshmen of all time is not necessarily a guarantee of NBA stardom. Players mature at different rates and at different times. I think we sometimes forget that.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Agreed that most were solid players. I'd argue that Chris Jackson didn't do much, but I'm too lazy to look up his statistics. I think Ellison would have been solid, but for injuries.
Just trying to point out that being one of best freshmen of all time is not necessarily a guarantee of NBA stardom. Players mature at different rates and at different times. I think we sometimes forget that.

Can't that argument be made a lot of college stars, freshman or not?

Look at the last 10 years of Naismith winners:

Shane Battier
Jason Williams
T. J. Ford
Jameer Nelson
Andrew Bogut
J. J. Redick
Kevin Durant
Tyler Hansbrough
Blake Griffin
Evan Turner

It's too early to decide on the career of Turner of Griffin, but 1 isn't playing in the league anymore (JWill), 1 is virtually useless now (Ford), 3 are solid role players (JJ, Battier, Hansbrough), 1 is a decent second/third banana (Bogut), 1 is a one-time All-Star that probably won't make it again (Nelson), and 1 is a Superstar (Durant).

And those are the best college players.

While there is a correlation between success in college and success in the NBA, there are so many outliers.

[CDu]

Agreed that most were solid players. I'd argue that Chris Jackson didn't do much, but I'm too lazy to look up his statistics. I think Ellison would have been solid, but for injuries.
Just trying to point out that being one of best freshmen of all time is not necessarily a guarantee of NBA stardom. Players mature at different rates and at different times. I think we sometimes forget that.

Jackson (Abdul-Rauf) wasn't ever an NBA superstar, but he had four very strong NBA seasons (averaging between 16 and 19.2 ppg) and was a double-digit scorer for the first 7 years of his career. Then he fell off the map.

[Orange&BlackSheep]

Ok, just looked at the box score. A couple of things stand out:

-50 rebounds is ridiculous, were they playing a team of dwarfs who couldn't box out??
-Shooting 57% at the line will not get it done
-Bullock only got 13 mins, how long before this blow hard starts acting out???
-HB had good 1st half numbers, really good, but nothing in the second half... humm? Probably nothing to it.
-70% from 3pt land is not going to happen very often if ever again

So, it is hard to say just looking at the numbers, but looks like a typical game where one team is way WAY more talented than the other and wins easily. I am not going to take a lot away from this win.

I did read where the "we want biscuits" chant was revised... is this not the lamest chant in sports anywhere? I mean come on, begging for biscuits... really?

Here is what I took from the game (and I promise you that you would have had a completely different take on the game if you actually saw it):

(1) Harrison Barnes has a great shot. Not a good one, a great one. You really can't look much better than he does as the ball leaves his hand. Whether he can utilize that shot against good college defenses of course is yet to be seen. But when Hofstra gave him a little room, he let it fly, and it went in.
(2) The difference between this year's team and last year's is clearly the ability to shoot the ball. There are many more options, all of whom seem better than their counterpart last year (that being themselves in some cases).
(3) This is not a great defensive team. Henson's length does make a difference in the middle. Carolina got so many long, offensive rebounds.
(4) They do not have guards that can attack the basket and dish for easy buckets inside. The one exception to that might be Marshall who had a great pass to a semi-open big man that resulted in an and one (though he is more of a Jason Kidd passer than a drive and dish passer if that makes sense). Kickouts to shooters will be much more effective with this team.

I think the game at Carolina will be a war.

[gumbomoop]

Here is what I took from the game (and I promise you that you would have had a completely different take on the game if you actually saw it):

(1) Harrison Barnes has a great shot. Not a good one, a great one. You really can't look much better than he does as the ball leaves his hand. Whether he can utilize that shot against good college defenses of course is yet to be seen. But when Hofstra gave him a little room, he let it fly, and it went in.
(2) The difference between this year's team and last year's is clearly the ability to shoot the ball. There are many more options, all of whom seem better than their counterpart last year (that being themselves in some cases).
(3) This is not a great defensive team. Henson's length does make a difference in the middle. Carolina got so many long, offensive rebounds.
(4) They do not have guards that can attack the basket and dish for easy buckets inside. The one exception to that might be Marshall who had a great pass to a semi-open big man that resulted in an and one (though he is more of a Jason Kidd passer than a drive and dish passer if that makes sense). Kickouts to shooters will be much more effective with this team.

I think the game at Carolina will be a war.

I didn't see the entire game, only brief, interrupted segments, but I was impressed. Obviously Hofstra isn't a strong opponent, so I can't draw any clear conclusions yet, but O&B seems on target in these specific points.

As long as the Heels don't have to over-depend on brilliant PG play, and as long as LDII doesn't turn into a soap opera [for whatever reason], he and Marshall might do just fine. I'll be interested to see how both do against better competition. I can see that Marshall is no speed-demon, but that guy is a first-rate passer.

I thought last year that McDonald would transfer, but with the unexpected departures of 3 guys, minutes have opened up, and he can play some.

If one can get beyond HB's super self-consciousness, brand-wise, it's pretty hard to deny he's very good in lots of ways. Lots.

[JasonEvans]

Can't that argument be made a lot of college stars, freshman or not?

Look at the last 10 years of Naismith winners:

Shane Battier
Jason Williams
T. J. Ford
Jameer Nelson
Andrew Bogut
J. J. Redick
Kevin Durant
Tyler Hansbrough
Blake Griffin
Evan Turner

It's too early to decide on the career of Turner of Griffin, but 1 isn't playing in the league anymore (JWill), 1 is virtually useless now (Ford), 3 are solid role players (JJ, Battier, Hansbrough), 1 is a decent second/third banana (Bogut), 1 is a one-time All-Star that probably won't make it again (Nelson), and 1 is a Superstar (Durant).

And those are the best college players.

While there is a correlation between success in college and success in the NBA, there are so many outliers.

Well, one thing to take from this list is that most of the guys with real elite NBA talent don't stay in school long enough to win a Naismith Award. The Naismith and most of the other awards tend to skew a bit toward upperclassmen. It is not impossible for a freshman to win one, but experienced players get a little extra benefit of the doubt compared to a frosh.

However, the great NBA players tend to be kids who leave after their freshman year (or high school before that was disallowed).

-Jason "it is true though-- the skills to succeed in college and to succeed in the NBA are not always the same" Evans

[sandinmyshoes]

I watched most of the game.

Barnes looked very good in the first half. His shot was falling, and he does a lot of little things. Very effortless looking player. He's not, however, particularly strong with the ball and needs to work on defensive consistency.

UNC was okay defensively in the first half, despite Hofstra's high shooting percentage. They forced a lot of turnovers, but Hofstra hit some tough shots. That Jenkins kid is legit. In the second half, or at least the first part of it that I watched, UNC was a little better defensively, and Hofstra didn't shoot as well even when open a bit. I think UNC mixed up their defense, or maybe it was just fatigue, but Jenkins was less effective.

Hofstra could give them a false sense of accomplishment, however. They had little height, and what they had was not particularly physical except for one sub. It will be interesting to see if Minn. more physical front line can handle the UNC finesse bunch without any double downs opening up the perimeter. That brings me to that Knox kid. He actually shows some flashes of skill, and his by far the most physical presence UNC has in the paint. He'll be important to them when they meet teams with thick front lines. If he gets the job done, it will raise them up a notch in the scheme of things. If not, they'll be vulnerable to physical interior play.

[shoutingncu]

I didn't watch the game...

I was really looking forward to your first impression, as you are one of the harsher critics of unc's game... not the program, the coach, the fans (you all are equally equipped there), but as I recall, Old Navy was one of the first to cry foul last season with the team, and particularly, the interior game.

Kudos to Orange, Gumbo and Sand for giving their analysis.

I'm looking forward to better competition, as early as today, although I have my criticisms of Tubby Smith, so I hope you can check out the game, Old Navy.

And for those that didn't see... Henson hit a hook shot (the only one he took, I believe). It still line drived toward the basket, but it went in.

[Devilsfan]

Loved HB's second half productivity against that almost mid-major powerhouse.

[kong123]

Loved HB's second half productivity against that almost mid-major powerhouse.

he's overrated, huh? should have scored 9 pts in the first half and 10 in the second? then you would respect his 19 pt's? If you were HB, how would you break up his 19 pt's per half for the game?

UNC won by 40+ pt's, get a bit of perspective instead of picking on him for basically no reason.

[wallyman]

hard to argue with kong on this one. it's a long season, but early signs on hb are good for them and less good for those hoping to see more of what we saw last year from the heels.


wheat, please call home.

[oldnavy]

I was really looking forward to your first impression, as you are one of the harsher critics of unc's game... not the program, the coach, the fans (you all are equally equipped there), but as I recall, Old Navy was one of the first to cry foul last season with the team, and particularly, the interior game.

Kudos to Orange, Gumbo and Sand for giving their analysis.

I'm looking forward to better competition, as early as today, although I have my criticisms of Tubby Smith, so I hope you can check out the game, Old Navy.

And for those that didn't see... Henson hit a hook shot (the only one he took, I believe). It still line drived toward the basket, but it went in.

Thanks. I did see the Lipscomb game and to be honest was not very impressed. UNC in that game looked like the UNC from last year. They had a very inferior team that they really could not put away. Turnovers were not that big of a deal, but they had a difficult time getting defensive stops. That and Ol Roy's substitution pattern would be concerns for me, if I was a UNC fan.

By all reports, the Hofstra game was more like the UNC of two years ago. Dominating an inferior team from start to finish. But it is still too early to tell how they will play over the season. What we may have is exactly what we have seen in the two games thus far, a hybrid of the '09 and '10 teams. '10 on some nights and '09 on others.

Barnes is going to be a really good player, but the issue to me is will he be an AA type player and if not how will that impact his psyche. I think he will be fine as long as the UNC fans and media do not eat him alive when he doesn't live up to the unrealistic expectations heaped upon him.

Kong, I disagree that you cannot get anything out of looking at a box score without watching the game, if that were the case then why print them?? I can tell a lot by looking at shooting percentages, rebounding, minutes played, TO:A, etc... of course nothing replaces actually seeing the flow and play of the game, but boxscores do tell a tale.

The blow hard comment about Bullock may not be fully justified, but I am not a fan of his after the "ratface" comment. Yes, he is a kid, but he is old enough to know better than to say things like that. Even his buddies had enough sense to distance themselves from that comment. I got the impression from that comment that he is one to say what is on his mind without thinking about it. So if he is hitting 2/3 of his shots and only getting 13 minutes a game, yes I would expect at some point for him to mouth off, either in public or in practice. We will have to wait and see....

[Gthoma2a]

He is the Dimitar Berbatov of basketball (only I like Berbatov in soccer). He is good, but he doesn't do the most athletic stuff, he looks like he is sleepwalking for large portions of the game. He shoots well, but he is not ever going to beat anybody off the bounce at this level.

[sandinmyshoes]

If UNC survives Minn. it looks like they get WVU. That will test the toughness of UNC's frontline. I don't know WVU's situation in terms of talent and experience this year, but Huggins' teams are always very physical.

[oldnavy]

ok, just watching some of the Hofstra/WKU game... UG-LY basketball. 28-32 8 minutes into the second half... UNC should have scored 130 point on this group!! :eek:

[Gthoma2a]

ok, just watching some of the Hofstra/WKU game... UG-LY basketball. 28-32 8 minutes into the second half... UNC should have scored 130 point on this group!! :eek:

I love it, and I agree! Even Hubert Davis was saying that it was "fool's gold."

[davekay1971]

Watching Kerlina-Minny right now. Minnesota looks pretty hapless on offense and/or Kerlina is playing pretty respectable halfcourt defense. Kerlina, for their part, looks absolutely out of synch in any kind of halfcourt set. It's like they don't have any clue where to go with the ball or how to develop a good look for their scorers. There's absolutely no denying the talent on the squad, but they just aren't doing anything in the first 8 minutes of the game to take advantage of their talent against what looks to me like a pretty mediocre Minny team.

Anybody playing UNC should really look to force UNC to stay in a halfcourt situation, keep them from being able to spread the court and use that athleticism, and UNC is going to have trouble consistently scoring.

[Starter]

I have the UNC game on my television while watching Duke on my computer. Harrison Barnes has two points at halftime. But as we all know, this is totally normal, as he's not expected to score in both halves.

The backcourt of Drew, Bullock, McDonald, Strickland and Marshall has combined for four points -- all four by Strickland -- and two assists.

I do like the way Henson is playing.

[chattpanther]

I have the UNC game on my television while watching Duke on my computer. Harrison Barnes has two points at halftime. But as we all know, this is totally normal, as he's not expected to score in both halves.

The backcourt of Drew, Bullock, McDonald, Strickland and Marshall has combined for four points -- all four by Strickland -- and two assists.

I do like the way Henson is playing.

I really look forward to waking up tomorrow to read the SI article on Kyrie Irving. It will be much along the same lines at the Barnes article (http://ncaabasketball.fanhouse.com/2010/11/18/harrison-barnes-helps-north-carolina-find-its-pride-against-hofs/). Of course, there is no responsibility on Irving to "find" any pride for Duke and isn't the anointed savior since Duke was never lost. But still, I am sure SI will show the same respect to Kyrie as they did Barnes.

[davekay1971]

Henson has improved his game. His added muscle is going to benefit him tremendously this year. But Henson and Zeller are not going to provide enough offense if UNC's backcourt can't figure out how to score in a halfcourt set. Tubby Smith's teams have always played this kind of slower tempo, and it's giving UNC fits right now.

Fortunately, Kerlina has coaching super-genius Roy Williams. There's no one better at making half-time and in-game adjustments.

[Gthoma2a]

I love this game so far! Minnesota is obviously not a good team, and they are giving UNC all they can handle.

[roywhite]

I love this game so far! Minnesota is obviously not a good team, and they are giving UNC all they can handle.

Minny is decent, not great. It's the kind of team that could have beaten UNC last year, but wouldn't be expected to win this year, at least based on preseason ratings.

UNC hasn't looked good so far and trail by 3 in the second half at this point.

[davekay1971]

True to form, Roy's comments at halftime: "They've got to play better. I can't get out there on the floor. I could get out there and be aggressive. They've got to decide if they're going to be aggressive."

Down for the first time at the half and Roy's got the bus warmed up...

[Starter]

True to form, Roy's comments at halftime: "They've got to play better. I can't get out there on the floor. I could get out there and be aggressive. They've got to decide if they're going to be aggressive."

Down for the first time at the half and Roy's got the bus warmed up...

Was about to post this. Unreal with this guy. I think he blames his players when it rains.

[juise]

Hey, it's not unusual for one of the top freshmen in college hoops history to go 0-8 from the field in the first 14 minutes of a game. Roy could definitely get out there and show him a thing or two.

Really, he could score 50 for all I care. I just want the Heels to lose.

[kong123]

i know, telling his team that they need to be more aggressive on offense. What an idiot!!! I mean, isn't he the coach? Isn't he able to check into the game and take a few shots?

If it rains and Roy says "its raining" you guys would jump all over that

[sandinmyshoes]

Haven't been able to pay attention to this one because I'm watching our guys romp on ESPN3 via my computer.

But I thought Minn. bulk could cause some problems for UNC. Henson and Zeller just aren't bangers. When they run up against a team with a physical post presence, their outside shots will need to fall to create space. If they somehow escape this one, I think WVU takes them down.

[Starter]

i know, telling his team that they need to be more aggressive on offense. What an idiot!!! I mean, isn't he the coach? Isn't he able to check into the game and take a few shots?

If it rains and Roy says "its raining" you guys would jump all over that

I don't know what you're trying to say exactly. But if you're trying to sugar-coat it, you can do that all you want; when the going gets rough, Roy time and again throws his players to the wolves. As he already has tonight.

[Starter]

My stream of the Duke game fizzled out shortly after the half, so I was stuck with Tubby Smith's inspiring victory.

Here's the thing with Barnes, who shot 0-for-15: Minnesota was bigger down low, but it's still no reason to settle for as many jump shots as he did, especially when he couldn't buy one tonight. He seems to float at times. But he still got to the line a decent amount, and he still got nine rebounds. He'll figure it out. But all the first-team All-America talk should probably wait a bit. This isn't Kevin Durant here. It's not even Jared Sullinger.

I like Kendall Marshall much more than I did when I saw him during the Jordan game. It won't show in the box score, but though he's not terribly fast, he runs the offense so much better than Drew does. I'm not sure Marshall is the Felton/Lawson type that has proven to be the key to taking this program to the next level, but he definitely has some game and confidence.

I like Bullock, too. He's going to have some big games for them.

[mkline09]

Not that an early season matters much, but I alway enjoy a unc loss.

[PSurprise]

Pretty good night tonight. Solid beatdown and UNC loss. I will wake up tomorrow with a little big bigger spring in my step

[roywhite]

Here's the thing with Barnes, who shot 0-for-15: Minnesota was bigger down low, but it's still no reason to settle for as many jump shots as he did, especially when he couldn't buy one tonight. He seems to float at times. But he still got to the line a decent amount, and he still got nine rebounds. He'll figure it out. But all the first-team All-America talk should probably wait a bit. This isn't Kevin Durant here. It's not even Jared Sullinger.



You're being gentle. Barnes indeed did not look like a 1st team All-American. It's not too often you see a player go 0-13 from the field. I think he'll shed a few tears tonight.

It'll be interesting to see how Barnes, and Ole Roy handle this loss. Could be a great learning experience, or it could be a little ugly. Again.

[SuperTurkey]

I hit as many shots as Harrison Barnes tonight.

[timmy c]

I hit as many shots as Harrison Barnes tonight.

I did more shots... oh wait, nevermind.

[Gthoma2a]

I think it is great. The reason that it is so great is that, last year, they broke after a couple of losses. I am hoping for a repeat! If they get in, they have a better chance to win the NIT with that "First Team All-American."

[gumbomoop]

I like Kendall Marshall much more than I did when I saw him during the Jordan game. It won't show in the box score, but though he's not terribly fast, he runs the offense so much better than Drew does.... He definitely has some game and confidence.

I suspect Roy will continue with the 2-headed PG, because Drew, though very inconsistent, will play well at times. But he'll stink it up some, too, bringing up bad memories of last season. Marshall is much the better "pure" PG, for the reason Starter says here. It's an awkward situation for Roy. As numerous posters have pointed out, on numerous threads, the PG melodrama is one of the key issues for UNC this season.

If Roy solves the issue, he deserves some credit. If things become even more obviously awkward, and he lets it fester because he can't figure out how to deal with it, he deserves some criticism. This is a fair test of his coaching acumen.

[Gthoma2a]

Can we just call it 0-2 for Barnes "ACC Rookie of the Week" wins?

[Reisen]

How many halves of basketball has it been since Harrison Barnes hit a basket?

[ajgoodfella7]

Can we just call it 0-2 for Barnes "ACC Rookie of the Week" wins?

But he had 7 rebounds!

[SilkyJ]

Let's all just remember that we haven't played anyone even close to the caliber of Minnesota yet. I wouldn't expect we'd lose to UM, but humility is a good thing. (of course making fun of UNC is always a good thing as well :) )

That said, the HB as an AA was ridiculous -- he's not Wall, Durant, or even Beasley for that matter. I'm sure he'll be a very good player and pro, but the media hype was absurd.

[roywhite]

How many halves of basketball has it been since Harrison Barnes hit a basket?

Played 3 games and he hasn't made a FG in the last 3 halves of play....gotta be feeling the pressure.

[LSanders]

How much of the pre-season HB hype was tied to genuine expectations from knowledgeable people and how much was simply tied to ... $$$?

The Duke-UNC rivalry is not only one of the most hallowed, it generates a CRAPLOAD of money for ESPN, et al. Yet, with demise of the boys in baby blue, where's the rivalry? I'm not trying to be cocky or imply UNC is devoid of talent. But, UNC fans could be looking at last year's Cameron beat-down with fond memories if we're raining threes.

IF UNC implodes again, ESPN's audience will consist only of fans in royal blue. Even Dickie V can't generate a rivalry out of thin air.

[moonpie23]

i stated this before that the pressure on this young man will be incredible if the holes struggle early. already on IC, the cannibalism is rampant, while others are reduced to defending him with "he's just a freshman"......

after last year's titanic, the holes proclaimed him the saviour.......if he doesn't start showing it soon, it's going to be really bad for him....

[FireOgilvie]

Harrison Barnes was 2nd Team All-UNC tonight.

[Gthoma2a]

i stated this before that the pressure on this young man will be incredible if the holes struggle early. already on IC, the cannibalism is rampant, while others are reduced to defending him with "he's just a freshman"......

after last year's titanic, the holes proclaimed him the saviour.......if he doesn't start showing it soon, it's going to be really bad for him....

I can't feel sympathy. I seem to remember the "hold 40 for me story," and I see him for what he is... a traitor. Then, I remember how he announced that he was two-faced in Cameron, and it goes even deeper. I am happy that he is failing. He talks like Tiger Woods used to, and he plays like Tiger has recently, so he can keep the fakeness up. I wonder if failing will cause that act to fade.

[SuperTurkey]

Harrison Barnes was 2nd Team All-UNC tonight.

According to ESPN, they have 16 dudes on the roster. Harry was at best 3rd Team tonight.

[ElSid]

Is it too early to start feeling sorry for Barnes? Yes, clearly. But, I'm concerned the pressure is really going to get to him. I hope I'm wrong. I think there's little chance he leaves that program with any 'heel fans happy. Despite what he perpetrated with Skype, he's a good kid. And I want, as another poster stated already, UNC to be good when we trounce them.

I think he'll come around and eventually be good enough for me to regret this post.

If he's not as good as advertised, and UNC has another very challenging year, it could be a bloodbath. Also, if Zeller and Henson and Barnes go pro, which isn't out of the realm, who is going to take care of business inside? And, maybe Marshall can be a good point guard, but he probably won't be *elite*. UNC positioned to be mediocre for the next couple years? Maybe. Dadgumit.

[roywhite]

i stated this before that the pressure on this young man will be incredible if the holes struggle early. already on IC, the cannibalism is rampant, while others are reduced to defending him with "he's just a freshman"......

after last year's titanic, the holes proclaimed him the saviour.......if he doesn't start showing it soon, it's going to be really bad for him....

Seems to me that HB is the type to put a lot of pressure on himself, and that is probably happening now. Wouldn't be surprised if this performance tonight and the loss brought him to tears.

My read on IC is that Larry Drew is the first designated whipping boy....why don't we start Kendall Marshall...what was Drew thinking there?....Drew can't play defense....etc.

[jipops]

I can't feel sympathy. I seem to remember the "hold 40 for me story," and I see him for what he is... a traitor. Then, I remember how he announced that he was two-faced in Cameron, and it goes even deeper. I am happy that he is failing. He talks like Tiger Woods used to, and he plays like Tiger has recently, so he can keep the fakeness up. I wonder if failing will cause that act to fade.

Sounds like you have some good stories here, I haven't heard of these references before.

Roy was quoted in the post game - "It's tough on a freshman, when everyone's saying he's the greatest thing since sliced bread, to live it up to that"

Yet this is also the same coach that recently said Barnes has no weaknesses (sorry can't find the link but I know I read it). Careful there Roy.

The kid is still going to blow up the stat sheets this season, that is just a given. Hopefully he has one of these terrible nights against us, but somehow I doubt that will happen.

[ajgoodfella7]

Seems to me that HB is the type to put a lot of pressure on himself, and that is probably happening now. Wouldn't be surprised if this performance tonight and the loss brought him to tears.

I think I'm going to sleep well tonight with that image in my head.

[dukebluelemur]

According to ESPN, they have 16 dudes on the roster. Harry was at best 3rd Team tonight.



At 0-12 I think he makes First team. For Minnesota.

[Gthoma2a]

Sounds like you have some good stories here, I haven't heard of these references before.

Roy was quoted in the post game - "It's tough on a freshman, when everyone's saying he's the greatest thing since sliced bread, to live it up to that"

Yet this is also the same coach that recently said Barnes has no weaknesses (sorry can't find the link but I know I read it). Careful there Roy.

The kid is still going to blow up the stat sheets this season, that is just a given. Hopefully he has one of these terrible nights against us, but somehow I doubt that will happen.

This isn't where i first heard them (I can't even remember where I first heard them, but this is another reference of it happening). I don't know for sure that he won't be a bust. It happens a little less in the NCAA (from what I can see), but sometimes "big-time players" turn out to be busts.

The link http://www.scacchoops.com/tt_newsbreaker_External.asp?NB=4140

[dukebsbll14]

I can't feel sympathy. I seem to remember the "hold 40 for me story," and I see him for what he is... a traitor. Then, I remember how he announced that he was two-faced in Cameron, and it goes even deeper. I am happy that he is failing. He talks like Tiger Woods used to, and he plays like Tiger has recently, so he can keep the fakeness up. I wonder if failing will cause that act to fade.

During the 08-09 season, my sister got me tickets to the exhibition versus VA Union on Parent's weekend. At that point in time, it seemed like my dream of being a Duke student was falling out of grasp. At the game, the cheer sheet said #1 SG Harrison Barnes (2010) will be in attendance, so give him a "Harrison Barnes, come to Duke!" chant. And I did. Roughly a month before ED decisions came out, HB committed to UNC.

As a freshman at Duke, I cannot wait to give Harrison Barnes the worst experience of his life on February 9th.

[SeattleIrish]

He is a kid still. Lets not ascribe such sinister motives to someone who was acting in a way not atypical of his age; I'm sure he'll look back on this and wish he could do some things differently, but he hasn't murdered anyone.

s.i.

p.s. - am REALLY hoping for a perfectly ordinary, middle-of-the-ACC year for UNC. That will contribue to my happiness :D

[fgb]

just read the espn recap of the nc-mn game; in the middle of the story is this:

Back in North Carolina, the Cameron Crazies learned of the Tar Heels' loss late in top-ranked Duke's rout against Colgate and started chanting "Minnesota!"

[CharlestonDevil]

Go to Hell Carolina. GO TO HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[superdave]

Go to Hell Carolina. GO TO HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Barnes deserves all he gets after The Decision 0.0.

[SeattleIrish]

I do have to say, the IC board is in melt-down like I haven't seen since the Doherty days. There are "All Americans" over there saying flat out that Roy can't coach, or referring to him thusly: "He's a used car salesman with a gimmicky scheme that does not emphasize basic fundamental basketball. He's also too arrogant and stubborn to see the error of his ways."

It's insane over there. Almost to the point of feeling bad for 'em...

s.i.

[oldnavy]

I do have to say, the IC board is in melt-down like I haven't seen since the Doherty days. There are "All Americans" over there saying flat out that Roy can't coach, or referring to him thusly: "He's a used car salesman with a gimmicky scheme that does not emphasize basic fundamental basketball. He's also too arrogant and stubborn to see the error of his ways."

It's insane over there. Almost to the point of feeling bad for 'em...

s.i.

Sounds like my kind of peeps!! I have been saying that for years!!

Please save you compassion for someone who deserves it. Ol Roy feels plenty sorry for himself and needs no help from us!

[wilko]

Well even tho we are just a FEW games into the season, we have things going pretty well. So well in fact, I'm getting over my disappointment for the HB fiasco.

I dont wish the fellow ill... I want him and Henson to do well enough to jump to the league. Im OK if both avg 30pts a game as long as its a losing effort for UNC overall.

[davekay1971]

I want him and Henson to do well enough to jump to the league. Im OK if both avg 30pts a game as long as its a losing effort for UNC overall.

As Easy Ed showed, you don't actually have to do well to jump to the league. Those two could underperform all year and still be high picks on potential alone. I hope they both underwhelm all year, contributing to another lousy season at the Dump on the Hump, more wildly entertaining 'Ol Roy meltdowns, and those two both saying, "screw this, I'm leaving this train wreck."

[slower]

If it rains and Roy says "its raining" you guys would jump all over that

If it was raining, Roy would blame his players for the rain and say "I've got an umbrella and I can make it stop raining". The point, as it ALWAYS is with Huckleberry, is that it's always somebody else's fault.

BTW, Kong, your knee jerks harder than anybody else's around here.

[slower]

As Easy Ed showed, you don't actually have to do well to jump to the league.

Don't forget Marvelous Marvin Williams, who is currently in Darko territory ("we could have had Chris Paul or Deron Williams instead of THIS guy").

Make sure those guys take Zeller with them. I'm sure that next year, they will have finally removed the cancer from their locker room - for, what is it now? - the third year in a row.

[davekay1971]

I'm sure that next year, they will have finally removed the cancer from their locker room - for, what is it now? - the third year in a row.

Unless the cancer is Roy. I'm only kinda-sorta joking about that.

[jv001]

If it was raining, Roy would blame his players for the rain and say "I've got an umbrella and I can make it stop raining". The point, as it ALWAYS is with Huckleberry, is that it's always somebody else's fault.

BTW, Kong, your knee jerks harder than anybody else's around here.

I do not feel sorry for the unc tarholes, but I do in a way for kong. He is in fact a pretty good tarhole fan. But as slower states, he did come back with a knee jerk statement taking up for ole roy. kong loves his heels as we love our Blue Devis. So I'll lay off kong and just enjoy our win and the heels loss. Go Duke!

[dukelifer]

Is it too early to start feeling sorry for Barnes? Yes, clearly. But, I'm concerned the pressure is really going to get to him. I hope I'm wrong. I think there's little chance he leaves that program with any 'heel fans happy. Despite what he perpetrated with Skype, he's a good kid. And I want, as another poster stated already, UNC to be good when we trounce them.

I think he'll come around and eventually be good enough for me to regret this post.

If he's not as good as advertised, and UNC has another very challenging year, it could be a bloodbath. Also, if Zeller and Henson and Barnes go pro, which isn't out of the realm, who is going to take care of business inside? And, maybe Marshall can be a good point guard, but he probably won't be *elite*. UNC positioned to be mediocre for the next couple years? Maybe. Dadgumit.

Freshman are up and down. Good ones have an occasional great game that shows what they can do - followed by a cluncker. This is very common early- even on good teams. Look at Grant Hill's numbers his Freshman year. In an early loss against Georgetown- he was 1-9 with 3 pts. Next game against Michigan he was 9-15 with 19 pts. Barnes is a very good player and will be a thorn by mid season once he understands the speed of the game. Make no mistake about it- he will be very good this year.

[oldnavy]

Tried to watch the UNC game while watching our game on the computer. Needless to say, I couldn't take my eyes off of our game to see very much of the UNC game. Ok, HB had a night for the record books. Not the good kind of records but remarkable in how bad it was. This doesn't mean he isn't going to be a good player, he will be. But like I have said a couple of time now, and other have said as well, the pressure on this kid is going to be tremendous. If you think the hype is over the top (and it is and was WAY OVER THE TOP), then just wait for the criticism to kick in and watch how that mushrooms!! The media that built him up will not admit to being wrong, they will say that he SHOULD have been an AA as predicted, but that he has just underachieved and they will say it in increasingly vicious ways so as to save face (sounds like a certain coach down the road). Personally, I too hope he is a bust (i.e., just a really good player), so that we can say, look what ol Roy did with HB, coached him "up" from 1st team AA to 3rd team All ACC.

Without going back and looking, I would be willing to wager that this is the first time that HB has been shut out from the field in a half in his life and now he has gone 3 straight halves without a FG. How will this impact him? Well how he responds will tell us a lot about him. I could tell in the last few minutes of the game, that he seemed to pass up on open looks from the perimeter. Who could blame him, I have had nights at the local gym when I would miss my first couple of outside shots and then decide to stop shooting, but I am not an elite, AA caliber player. To be an elite caliber player, you need to have the confidence to keep shooting your shot when you are open. If you are a UNC fan, you should hope Roy is drilling that into HB's head right now. HB also missed several really close in shots that I saw, so he was just off last night. He is doing what everyone should have expected from a freshman, having good nights, average nights and bad nights, but he is doing terrible as an AA and that is what most folks will focus on. Too bad for him.

[77devil]

i know, telling his team that they need to be more aggressive on offense. What an idiot!!! I mean, isn't he the coach? Isn't he able to check into the game and take a few shots?

If it rains and Roy says "its raining" you guys would jump all over that

The distinction you never seem to appreciate is what a coach says to the cameras and in private to his team. I happened to grab John Feinstein's book about the Final Four off the shelf recently and reread Coach K's forward, which is excellent by the way. In it he writes how if anyone was responsible for Duke's loss to Louisville in the 1986 championship it was him and he went on to explain why.

Roy need's to change his message in front of the media and take responsibility for his team. He needs to understand it's not all about him.

[Bluedevil114]

Well even tho we are just a FEW games into the season, we have things going pretty well. So well in fact, I'm getting over my disappointment for the HB fiasco.

I dont wish the fellow ill... I want him and Henson to do well enough to jump to the league. Im OK if both avg 30pts a game as long as its a losing effort for UNC overall.

I would rather him underperform all year long then average 30+ in the NIT tournament as they go runner up again in 2011. Back to back NIT runner ups sounds pretty good to me.

[wilko]

I do not feel sorry for the unc tarholes, but I do in a way for kong. He is in fact a pretty good tarhole fan. But as slower states, he did come back with a knee jerk statement taking up for ole roy.

Here is the thing that UNC fans KNOW but will not admit.... causing them to use copious amounts of chapstick on their posteriors...

They know that if K were Coaching them, they would not lose games like this... lack of focus and effort..

[oldnavy]

i know, telling his team that they need to be more aggressive on offense. What an idiot!!! I mean, isn't he the coach? Isn't he able to check into the game and take a few shots?

If it rains and Roy says "its raining" you guys would jump all over that

I would if he said that it was my fault it was raining!

Kong, it is not WHAT he says, it is how he says it. "They've got to play better.." Not We've got to play better... He says it in a tone that tears down his players and he says it in a public forum. He is part of the team, if THEY are playing bad, then it is HIS responsibility to get them to play better. How would this sound coming out at half, "We have to match their intensity, and the coaching staff has to find a way to get better shots for HB to get him more comfortable and relaxed out there". One might expect that he would have learned from last year that this is not helpful, but he comes out at the very first sign of adversity and BOOM, right back to laying it all on the players again.

I personally love it and hope he never changes!

Someone needs to track how many times Roy says "I", "me", and "Roy Williams" this year.

[jv001]

Here is the thing that UNC fans KNOW but will not admit.... causing them to use copious amounts of chapstick on their posteriors...

They know that if K were Coaching them, they would not lose games like this... lack of focus and effort..

is the word I use to describe ole roy. He tries to come across as a good old boy but he is a fake. I've never thought of roy as a good coach. Maybe poor to average would be how I rate him. Now recruiting is another matter and for this reason, I hope barnes plays poorly every game. I hope they don't win another game. Having bad seasons back to back will certainly hurt recruiting. I can't think of a team that I would not root for over the heels.

[oldnavy]

Here is the thing that UNC fans KNOW but will not admit.... causing them to use copious amounts of chapstick on their posteriors...

They know that if K were Coaching them, they would not lose games like this... lack of focus and effort..

When is the last time anyone saw one of those "Got Roy?" T-shirts????

[moonpie23]

It's insane over there. Almost to the point of feeling bad for 'em...

s.i.

STOP THAT !!!!!!!! Remember what happened after feeling sorry for them when Doh was there.....???


DON' FALL FOR IT...

[wilko]

I hope barnes plays poorly every game. I hope they don't win another game. Having bad seasons back to back will certainly hurt recruiting. I can't think of a team that I would not root for over the heels.

On that foot, we share the same brain.

I've slowly come to the conclusion that its not the players I despise, its their loud-mouth, leeming minded, dentistry- needing fans.. (Not ALL, just most)

Much as I would not be tempted to speed, if I were the only car on the road... I wouldnt hate them with the pure passion that I do if they had no fans or their fans were indifferent and immune to following sports teams..

I hope lose every game as well, just to torture their fans not ruin the players. There is no team worth rooting for the Heels to win. Uconn, KY (love their jelly) UNLV.. UAB UTEP anyone...

[DonnyDevil]

If you want to laugh go to IC and read at least 10 different threads regarding the heels now. The tune has changed a bit since beating Hofstra and "getting their swag back" after last night. If they fall to the Pack in football today you can cancel Christmas in Chapel Hill

[elvis14]

If you want to laugh go to IC and read at least 10 different threads regarding the heels now. The tune has changed a bit since beating Hofstra and "getting their swag back" after last night. If they fall to the Pack in football today you can cancel Christmas in Chapel Hill

What a great night, we win big, UNC loses and Voldemort/Skype goes ofer! Sweet. Let's go Pack!

[kong123]

look, i may make a few "knee jerk" responses to some of the posts on this board, but really- if you look at the situation- I could say and do much worse. To say that I am frustrated by how UNC played last night and how the IC seems to react to poor performances is a complete understatement.

I do believe we are and will be better than we proved to be last night. I believe HB has the world coming down on him, whether the pressure it is coming from the press or whether it is self imposed, fact is- you can feel it when you watch the game. Roy needs to figure out a way to get through to him and get him to let it go a bit. Probably will not happen, but I can see a kid like HB, who seems to be way too aware of himself, being lost to the pressure.

I'm frustrated. We go 12-17 from three one night and then go completely cold the next night. Can't make free throws or stop a team from scoring when we need it. What else can I say?

[moonpie23]

kong, to your credit, you always come in here and separate yourself from the hole fans what we love to see suffer.

i agree that the pressure on this kid must be incredible....that new technology (skype, internet, message boards) that he embraced when announcing will beat him like a rented donkey when he doesn't deliver...

we'll see how he responds to it...

[DevilHorns]

look, i may make a few "knee jerk" responses to some of the posts on this board, but really- if you look at the situation- I could say and do much worse. To say that I am frustrated by how UNC played last night and how the IC seems to react to poor performances is a complete understatement.

I do believe we are and will be better than we proved to be last night. I believe HB has the world coming down on him, whether the pressure it is coming from the press or whether it is self imposed, fact is- you can feel it when you watch the game. Roy needs to figure out a way to get through to him and get him to let it go a bit. Probably will not happen, but I can see a kid like HB, who seems to be way too aware of himself, being lost to the pressure.

I'm frustrated. We go 12-17 from three one night and then go completely cold the next night. Can't make free throws or stop a team from scoring when we need it. What else can I say?

The one bright spot from yesterday for UNC is Kendall Marshall. He is a very good distributor of the basketball and puts himself in good defensive position (so his speed isn't as much of a liability on defense). I think he will prove his worth over the course of years. Perhaps I was underestimating him (haven't really seen him play outside of clips until last night) because of all the bad banter he gets from the Duke perspective, but to me there is no question he should be on the floor, not the back-up. Drew continues to be awful. Did he practice at all over the off-season?

Zeller, the guy has great offensive moves and is very reliable as a scorer if he gets the ball in good position. He doesn't travel, he doesn't hesitate, and has several swift moves to put the ball in the hoop effectively. My biggest knock on him is toughness. It's unfortunate that his name is Tyler because he will always be constantly compared to Hans, and so far, just be intensity alone he falls tremendously short.

Frankly, UNC got out-''toughed'' last night. Sure HB missed a lot of shots, but not all those shots were poor takes. If they shot FTs better and hustled for a few more boards, this game has another result no matter if HB was 0-12 from the floor or not.

Henson, did this guy eat anything over the summer? I thought he was supposed to be bulked up? He seems like a headcase on the floor.

[BattierBattalion]

HB is my least favorite UNC player since Lawson. He toyed with emotions of the Duke coaching staff and let on that he was joining. He used this appearance to build up his Skype spectacle and surprise everyone when he committed to UNC. It goes against everything I believe about treating people. You don't treat people as means to an end; that's wrong.

Also, I don't know if you guys noticed, but the prince approaches everything in a shallow, superficial way. He constantly talks about marketing himself and making a lot of money, as opposed to a guy like Singler who just talks about winning and having fun. It's probably why he didn't come to Duke; it would have killed his "brand".

Anyway, I hope that UNC has a season like last year, HB averages a ho-hum 15 and 6, leaves for the NBA, and underwhelms completely there.

[slower]

HB is my least favorite UNC player since Lawson. He toyed with emotions of the Duke coaching staff and let on that he was joining. He used this appearance to build up his Skype spectacle and surprise everyone when he committed to UNC. It goes against everything I believe about treating people. You don't treat people as means to an end; that's wrong.

Also, I don't know if you guys noticed, but the prince approaches everything in a shallow, superficial way. He constantly talks about marketing himself and making a lot of money, as opposed to a guy like Singler who just talks about winning and having fun. It's probably why he didn't come to Duke; it would have killed his "brand".

Anyway, I hope that UNC has a season like last year, HB averages a ho-hum 15 and 6, leaves for the NBA, and underwhelms completely there.


Barnes views himself as a PRODUCT. Everything about him appears calculated. He's the guy who tries too hard to use big words so that people will think he's smart. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if he began referring to himself in the third person. It all just seems like an NBA audition for him.

Give me guys like Nolan and Kyle, who really seem to ENJOY the experience.

[miramar]

HB is my least favorite UNC player since Lawson. He toyed with emotions of the Duke coaching staff and let on that he was joining. He used this appearance to build up his Skype spectacle and surprise everyone when he committed to UNC. It goes against everything I believe about treating people. You don't treat people as means to an end; that's wrong.
.

He also kept UCLA in the mix when by all accounts they had no chance. I suspect it was to increase the interest in his product launch on the west coast, which turned the whole thing into a national spectacle.

[sagegrouse]

I do believe we are and will be better than we proved to be last night. I believe HB has the world coming down on him, whether the pressure it is coming from the press or whether it is self imposed, fact is- you can feel it when you watch the game.

The problem for Harrison Barnes, I suspect, is a combination of the hype, the rotten season UNC experienced last year, and the lack of any true stalwart among the returning players.

"The hype" should be a lesson to all HS stars. It was fed primarily by the recruiting war and the over-the-top announcement. Players who make early and fairly quiet announcements (Kyrie?) can fly beneath the radar, and they sure won't be made 1st team preseason A-A, which is really a curse for a player who hasn't yet scored a point. (Does it mean if he is only 1st team All-ACC, quite a feat for a freshman, that he is a failure?) Of course, their "brand" may suffer. :p True prodigies like Lebron and Tiger, who come along about once a decade, didn't have to build their brands.

UNC has a huge and vocal fan base that, like most schools, ranges from Nobel laureates to total yahoos. Given the total disappointment of last year and the "hype," there was no way for HB to avoid the fans' collective "Messiah complex." "He will save us."

And, of course, this was fed by the lack of any true star among the returning players. It could have been Henson, but he didn't put it all together last year. So, it has to be the new guys. But, instead of putting the burden on the three freshmen, it ends up on Barnes, and Kendall and Reggie get to learn the college game out of the spotlight.

sagegrouse

[timmy c]

The dichotomy between what is happening in Durham and Chapel Hill is fascinating to me. Earlier in the season, I read a quote where Coach K described seeing a furrowed brow on Kyrie. Coach K recognized the problem and immediately and addressed it appropriately with humor and encouragement. The expectations have continued to be extraordinary for Kyrie, yet he seems to be handling the ups and downs well.

In Chapel Hill, I imagine HB has a similar furrowed brow. It is early, much too early to make any definitive statements, but it will be fascinating story to see how his environment motivates and shapes him into the man he will be in the future.

In the right situation, pressure creates diamonds. Coach K has created an environment where Kyrie can excel. I am looking forward to reading/watching the current Duke Team deal with the eustress that accompanies chasing a national title in 2011.

[slower]

When you go to WRAL online, the result of the Minnesota-UNC game is not even on the front page of the SPORTS section. You have to go to "more top stories" to read about the Tarheel loss.

Gotta love it. It's like they're thinking, "Let's pretend it didn't happen, and everybody will be happy." ;)

[sagegrouse]

In the right situation, pressure creates diamonds. Coach K has created an environment where Kyrie can excel. I am looking forward to reading/watching the current Duke Team deal with the eustress that accompanies chasing a national title in 2011.

I thought it was a typo, but are some definitions courtesy of Wiki-what's-her-name:

Definitions of Eustress on the Web:

•Eustress is a term coined by endocrinologist Hans Selye which is defined in the model of Richard Lazarus (1974) as stress that is healthy, or gives one a feeling of fulfillment or other positive feelings. Eustress is a process of exploring potential gains.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eustress

•A healthful, stimulating kind and level of stress
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eustress

•eu-stress - Alternative spelling of eustress
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eu-stress

•A positive form of stress that helps us to perform, and is usually experienced when we are going through happy events like a graduation, a wedding, the birth of a child, a competitive event, or a vacation.
www.silvamethod.com/faqs/Glossary.aspx

sagegrouse

[timmy c]

I thought it was a typo, but are some definitions courtesy of Wiki-what's-her-name:

Definitions of Eustress on the Web:

•Eustress is a term coined by endocrinologist Hans Selye which is defined in the model of Richard Lazarus (1974) as stress that is healthy, or gives one a feeling of fulfillment or other positive feelings. Eustress is a process of exploring potential gains.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eustress

•A healthful, stimulating kind and level of stress
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eustress

•eu-stress - Alternative spelling of eustress
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eu-stress

•A positive form of stress that helps us to perform, and is usually experienced when we are going through happy events like a graduation, a wedding, the birth of a child, a competitive event, or a vacation.
www.silvamethod.com/faqs/Glossary.aspx

sagegrouse

I'm trying to inform and enlighten!

[SupaDave]

While I understand that Barnes is some of you guys favorite topic, I would advise you guys to temper it a bit. The KID is still adjusting and there's a lot of basketball yet to play. Yes, he has lost before and it's done nothing but make him work harder. Which is one of the reasons we LOVED the kid in the first place. If some of you keep up this unhealthy obsession he's gonna ruin a few days for you as well. Just my two cents...

At this point, my only concern with UNC is how Zeller/Henson will match up with Ryan/Mason/Miles. UNC will definitely want to run with us and they are much more capable of that than the half court set.

[OldPhiKap]

While I understand that Barnes is some of you guys favorite topic, I would advise you guys to temper it a bit. The KID is still adjusting and there's a lot of basketball yet to play. Yes, he has lost before and it's done nothing but make him work harder. Which is one of the reasons we LOVED the kid in the first place. If some of you keep up this unhealthy obsession he's gonna ruin a few days for you as well. Just my two cents...

At this point, my only concern with UNC is how Zeller/Henson will match up with Ryan/Mason/Miles. UNC will definitely want to run with us and they are much more capable of that than the half court set.

Agree with first paragraph. Totally. I love to see the heels stink, but thinking the kid can't play is whistling past the graveyard.

Regarding running with us -- I know that's Roy's only speed but I don't think it is a real problem so long as LDII is at the point. Even when Marshall bumps him out, we have sick depth in the backcourt.

[davekay1971]

When you go to WRAL online, the result of the Minnesota-UNC game is not even on the front page of the SPORTS section. You have to go to "more top stories" to read about the Tarheel loss.

Gotta love it. It's like they're thinking, "Let's pretend it didn't happen, and everybody will be happy." ;)

Maybe UNC getting punked by a team with much less talent and hype just isn't news anymore...

[elvis14]

While I understand that Barnes is some of you guys favorite topic, I would advise you guys to temper it a bit. The KID is still adjusting and there's a lot of basketball yet to play. Yes, he has lost before and it's done nothing but make him work harder. Which is one of the reasons we LOVED the kid in the first place. If some of you keep up this unhealthy obsession he's gonna ruin a few days for you as well. Just my two cents...

At this point, my only concern with UNC is how Zeller/Henson will match up with Ryan/Mason/Miles. UNC will definitely want to run with us and they are much more capable of that than the half court set.

I realize that Harry Skype is a good player (not AA good but still) but after The Decision 0.0 it's wonderful to revel in his struggles and to hope they continue. Especially after hearing from all the TarHeel fans after their savior scored 19 in the first half against mighty Hofstra! There's a few people I can't wait to see on Monday.......and you know what I'm going to say? Nothing and I'll love every quiet second of it.

And I do realize that he's a KID but if he's wearing that awful shade of light blue, I hope he never scores another basket! Sorry if that offends but the fans around here are just awful. 9F

[davekay1971]

Agree with first paragraph. Totally. I love to see the heels stink, but thinking the kid can't play is whistling past the graveyard.

Regarding running with us -- I know that's Roy's only speed but I don't think it is a real problem so long as LDII is at the point. Even when Marshall bumps him out, we have sick depth in the backcourt.

Agree and agree. I love watching Barnes suffer since he's wearing the wrong shade of blue, but he's still a freshman and, to this point of the season, is the 2nd leading scorer for his team. I'm not popping the champagne and calling him a bust yet. If I were a Tarhole fan I would be worried that Roy's inability to adjust in any way to maximize the individual players' talent would prevent Barnes from reaching his potential, but that doesn't mean the kid isn't going to have some great games this year. Well, if I was a Tarhole fan I'd probably set myself on fire and be too busy being on fire to worry about Barnes, but that's another story.

As for Carolina matching up with us, despite their two quality big men, I think the matchups are in our favor. The Plumlees and RK and, of course, Ironman, are all athletic enough and strong enough to limit the damage Henson and Zeller do in the post. Our perimeter defense, meanwhile, will make life miserable for a Carolina backcourt that remains sketchy in their ability to generate points in a half-court set. Our biggest matchup problem is probably Barnes, with whom I think only Kyle matches up particularly well (though Dre seems to have developed enough defensively to also hold his own against him). Defensively, Carolina's backcourt isn't going to be able to do anything to contain the four headed monster of Kyrie, Nolan, Dre, and Seth; meanwhile Kyle still remains a huge matchup problem for the 'Holes (does anyone think Barnes will be remotely ready to handle him?). So, in the halfcourt set, they're in deep trouble against us.

Which means their only hope is to run with us, right? I really, really hope that Roy is stupid enough to go with that plan. Because, while I think we have the matchups and coaching and defensive intensity to beat them solidly in a half-court game, I think we'll utterly destroy them in an up-tempo game.

[Duvall]

While I understand that Barnes is some of you guys favorite topic, I would advise you guys to temper it a bit. The KID is still adjusting and there's a lot of basketball yet to play. Yes, he has lost before and it's done nothing but make him work harder. Which is one of the reasons we LOVED the kid in the first place. If some of you keep up this unhealthy obsession he's gonna ruin a few days for you as well. Just my two cents...

Best to enjoy it while we can, then.

I'm not sure there's a tension here - it's entirely possible to recognize that Barnes will be fine and will have a good season while still deriding the UNC fans and sportswriters that were willing to compare the kid to Durant, Anthony and Kobe based on his performances against Iowa and AAU competition.

[Starter]

I actually think, with all due respect, for the most part everyone's been pretty fair considering a guy hyped to the moon who none of us like, and with good reason -- on our biggest rival -- went 0-for-15. We all know he's good and better days are most assuredly ahead. It's just, let's put a hold on the Naismith Award until he scores another field goal.

A big difference for Barnes and Kyrie is situation. Kyrie comes into a spot where he has Smith and Singler to take the brunt of the attention, and to take over in games when necessary. Barnes comes into a spot with not much experience around him where he's expected to be this savior and leader, and singlehandedly beat Duke and take Carolina back from the depths. It's akin to if Kyrie had shown up for our 2006-07 team (though, I mean, they would have been a lot better with him).

Williams' insistence on running when he doesn't have the personnel for it -- read: the point guard for it -- really hurt them last year and is the main reason I think UNC will probably have some long nights when they play us. Could you imagine them trying to go up and down with what Duke has? Of course I never underestimate them, and they have lots of talent, but the difference between the two teams last night was stark.

[oldnavy]

Barnes views himself as a PRODUCT. Everything about him appears calculated. He's the guy who tries too hard to use big words so that people will think he's smart. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if he began referring to himself in the third person. It all just seems like an NBA audition for him.

Give me guys like Nolan and Kyle, who really seem to ENJOY the experience.

Who did he emulate growing up?? Oh yea, that guy named Jordan... makes sense now that we think about it doesn't it?

[Indoor66]

Barnes views himself as a PRODUCT. Everything about him appears calculated. He's the guy who tries too hard to use big words so that people will think he's smart. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if he began referring to himself in the third person. It all just seems like an NBA audition for him.

He kinda' reminds me of BronBron that way.

[Mike Corey]

Barnes views himself as a PRODUCT. Everything about him appears calculated. He's the guy who tries too hard to use big words so that people will think he's smart. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if he began referring to himself in the third person. It all just seems like an NBA audition for him.

Give me guys like Nolan and Kyle, who really seem to ENJOY the experience.

You assume Humble Harry doesn't enjoy expanding upon his marketability. But you're right: this is all a means to an end for him. But it's not just an NBA audition. He's thinking bigger than that.

I sure hope he's as good as he thinks he is.

[MChambers]

I would if he said that it was my fault it was raining!

Kong, it is not WHAT he says, it is how he says it. "They've got to play better.." Not We've got to play better... He says it in a tone that tears down his players and he says it in a public forum. He is part of the team, if THEY are playing bad, then it is HIS responsibility to get them to play better. How would this sound coming out at half, "We have to match their intensity, and the coaching staff has to find a way to get better shots for HB to get him more comfortable and relaxed out there". One might expect that he would have learned from last year that this is not helpful, but he comes out at the very first sign of adversity and BOOM, right back to laying it all on the players again.

I personally love it and hope he never changes!

Someone needs to track how many times Roy says "I", "me", and "Roy Williams" this year.
This is exactly it. It's fine for Roy to explain what the problem is, but he often (or maybe always) does it in a way so that he doesn't take responsibility for it. He definitely needs to use different pronouns. We and us are a lot better than I, me, and Ol' Roy.

[deezl]

Seems that the wHEELs are falling off... I love it.

[MChambers]

He is a kid still. Lets not ascribe such sinister motives to someone who was acting in a way not atypical of his age; I'm sure he'll look back on this and wish he could do some things differently, but he hasn't murdered anyone.

s.i.

p.s. - am REALLY hoping for a perfectly ordinary, middle-of-the-ACC year for UNC. That will contribue to my happiness :D
S.I. has put it perfectly. I'm happy to see UNC struggle, but I don't wish Barnes ill. He's just a kid.

He'll end up being very good, just maybe not as good as the hype.

[Gthoma2a]

Oh my god, I just looked over at IC (first time ever), and I feel like I just read "How to Lower Your IQ with Dummies." They say that Anson Dorrance is the greatest coach in all of college sports (above K). One said that Roy was better...? I don't get that, but anyway.

Then, they were trying to determine who could save this team. They came up with a bunch of guys with no eligibility left, mentioned Dean, Gut, and Izzo, but avoided the elephant in the room (K could have their team winning). I don't get these people.

Oh, and they apparently use the "Rat" comment for K somewhat regularly. They are like children over there.

[DevilHorns]

S.I. has put it perfectly. I'm happy to see UNC struggle, but I don't wish Barnes ill. He's just a kid.

He'll end up being very good, just maybe not as good as the hype.

For a young man to put such massive amounts of pressure on himself... he may end up not being good at all. Don't underestimate stress. Many any athlete with promise have failed miserably because of it. If he was in a better situation (not having to be the savior, a la Kyrie and this Duke team) then I think your statement would be spot on. The thing is, he's putting an enormous amount of stress and expectations on an inflated ego. Who knows how he's coping mentally at this point. I'm sure he didn't envision being shut out in 3 halves against average NCAA competition in the beginning of his UNC career.

I wonder if Barnes stayed around in the gym shooting into the deep night by himself... again.

[timmy c]

Seems that the wHEELs are falling off... I love it.

A flat tire -not yet a full-on garage sale - but College of Charleston is on their schedule again in 8 days.:D

[slower]

Oh my god, I just looked over at IC (first time ever), and I feel like I just read "How to Lower Your IQ with Dummies." They say that Anson Dorrance is the greatest coach in all of college sports (above K).


Apples and oranges.

However, if you go by the numbers, there are VERY FEW others in the conversation with Anson Dorrance.

[Gthoma2a]

Apples and oranges.

However, if you go by the numbers, there are VERY FEW others in the conversation with Anson Dorrance.

Different sport, and much different levels of competition. K is in one of the toughest sports to coach in, and he gets it done. This is not to mention that K has shown the ability to reach the highest level of athletes, as well as, the best amateur athletes. He can coach any player, and he can win with them.

[davekay1971]

Oh my god, I just looked over at IC (first time ever), and I feel like I just read "How to Lower Your IQ with Dummies." They say that Anson Dorrance is the greatest coach in all of college sports (above K). .

The only reason to go to IC is to laugh at them when Carolina struggles. It's some high comedy, seriously. But, yes, I saw that thread and laughed long and hard. I think that thread was started by their ire that "Dukie V" raved about what a great coach K is during an unrelated game. Nobody on IC seemed to remember Vitale raving about Hansbrough all through 2009 during unrelated games...

[slower]

Different sport, and much different levels of competition. K is in one of the toughest sports to coach in, and he gets it done. This is not to mention that K has shown the ability to reach the highest level of athletes, as well as, the best amateur athletes. He can coach any player, and he can win with them.

As I said, apples and oranges.

"..the toughest sports to coach in". Okay, I'll give you a pass on that one.

"...and he gets it done". Anson Dorrance "gets it done" FAR more often than K, if you're talking about championships.

"The ability to reach the highest level of athletes, as well as, the best amateur athletes" - do you know anything about women's soccer?

Seriously, I'm not trying to bait you. I love Duke and K, but I'm not blinded to the accomplishments of other coaches who have built FAR more dynastic programs than Duke basketball.

AS I PLAINLY STATED - APPLES AND ORANGES. As with many things in life, it's a matter of opinion. I'm NOT saying that Dorrance is "greater" than K. But it is NOT, as you seem to think, a ridiculous assertion.

[Gthoma2a]

The only reason to go to IC is to laugh at them when Carolina struggles. It's some high comedy, seriously. But, yes, I saw that thread and laughed long and hard. I think that thread was started by their ire that "Dukie V" raved about what a great coach K is during an unrelated game. Nobody on IC seemed to remember Vitale raving about Hansbrough all through 2009 during unrelated games...

"Tyler Hansbrough, one of the best kids, let alone players, in the nation. The heart that he shows. He has that competitive spirit. There is no doubt, he is one of the greatest players in the country. Roy Williams has got a team, and I think he will get that National Title to Chapel Hill this year." This is my recreation of Dickie V covering any game during Hansbrough's junior and senior seasons. You are exactly right about that.

[Kedsy]

Oh, and they apparently use the "Rat" comment for K somewhat regularly. They are like children over there.

I haven't been over there, and don't think I want to. Do they use that comment more than we use "Ol' Roy" or "Huckleberry Hound," or talk about Roy throwing people under buses? Just asking.

[Duvall]

I haven't been over there, and don't think I want to. Do they use that comment more than we use "Ol' Roy" or "Huckleberry Hound," or talk about Roy throwing people under buses? Just asking.

1) Yes.
2) Not sure that comparing a person to a cartoon character is really equivalent to comparing a person to vermin.

ETA: That said, there does seem to be a real difference in the way Duke fans talk about Roy Williams and the way UNC fans at IC tend to talk about Mike Krzyzewski. Duke fans on message boards tend to put a negative gloss on comments and actions by Williams, admittedly to the point of absurdity. But IC posters have an unfortunate habit of inventing conspiracy theories about Krzyzewski out of whole cloth. It's bizarre, and it's much worse.

[Gthoma2a]

Couldn't say for certain, but I think it is a bit lighter when we call him Huckleberry or Ol' Roy. He has referred to himself as "Ol' Roy" before, plus Huckleberry was a cartoon character, not a general reference of vermin, so I tend to think we are still okay here. Just my opinion.

[stickdog]

DON'T BELIEVE the SKYPE

[SupaDave]

"Tyler Hansbrough, one of the best kids, let alone players, in the nation. The heart that he shows. He has that competitive spirit. There is no doubt, he is one of the greatest players in the country. Roy Williams has got a team, and I think he will get that National Title to Chapel Hill this year." This is my recreation of Dickie V covering any game during Hansbrough's junior and senior seasons. You are exactly right about that.

That wasn't a re-creation - that was a transcript!!! LOL!

[DukieInBrasil]

I just don't see how Roy can justify starting LD II over Marshall anymore. LD II is a wreck and Marshall just seems to get it done much better. I get the feeling that Roy was sorta extending a chance to Drew out of the gates, but Marshall has been so much better that I think Marshall will start with LD II starting also, or on the bench.
Bullock has also surprised me a bit. I thought DexLesterlie McStrickonald would play much worse than they are.
Harrison Barnes needs to get his straightened out or else this is gonna be another NIT team, which is perfectly fine with me.

[Namtilal]

DON'T BELIEVE the SKYPE

I love it! We need a pic of him with a Flavor Flav clock around his neck and this below!

[whereinthehellami]

Zeller was the only heel without a TO. 9 heels had TOs. Roy might be trying to fit a round peg into a square heel yet again with his Xs and Os.

There appears to be chemistry issues again. Some posters on IC have brought it up. They didn't play with much intensity and went down pretty easy. MN tried to give it away at the end but Roy was already on the bus backing it up. The heels don't seem to be a very close team and that could get worse as the year goes on.

I didn't think MN was a very good team or they had a bad game. Poor FT shooting, more TOs than I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this., and they only shot ~ 25% from 3. This loss a red flag for UNC.

Barnes is delicate. I also saw him pass up some shots at the end, kind of like he didn't want to be the guy. That is another red flag for me. He had a terrible night and he let it get to him. Something to keep an eye on.

[Kedsy]

1) Yes.
2) Not sure that comparing a person to a cartoon character is really equivalent to comparing a person to vermin.

ETA: That said, there does seem to be a real difference in the way Duke fans talk about Roy Williams and the way UNC fans at IC tend to talk about Mike Krzyzewski. Duke fans on message boards tend to put a negative gloss on comments and actions by Williams, admittedly to the point of absurdity. But IC posters have an unfortunate habit of inventing conspiracy theories about Krzyzewski out of whole cloth. It's bizarre, and it's much worse.

OK, like I said I've never gone over there. The way some posters here ridicule Roy Williams (as you say, to the point of absurdity) I just thought it was funny that someone said the IC posters are "like children" because they called K names.

And I hear you about the relative difference between comparing someone to a cartoon character (or a used car salesman) vs. comparing someone to a rodent, but I'm not sure I see that big a distinction. When you call someone a name you are either doing it in jest or doing it to be mean. If one fan base's intent was jesting and the other being mean, I'd agree there was a difference. But since it seems to me that both sets of fans are being mean, the idea that one epithet is meaner or worse than the other is not that persuasive, at least not to me.

[Taco]

The UNC/Minn game was on ESPNU, so how come I can't watch a replay on ESPN3? Sounds like I missed a good one :)

[pfrduke]

I just don't see how Roy can justify starting LD II over Marshall anymore. LD II is a wreck and Marshall just seems to get it done much better. I get the feeling that Roy was sorta extending a chance to Drew out of the gates, but Marshall has been so much better that I think Marshall will start with LD II starting also, or on the bench.
Bullock has also surprised me a bit. I thought DexLesterlie McStrickonald would play much worse than they are.
Harrison Barnes needs to get his straightened out or else this is gonna be another NIT team, which is perfectly fine with me.

Just to add fuel to this fire:

Kendall Marshall: 124-83, +41
Larry Drew II: 122-113, +9

Drew has been last or second to last in +/- in 2 of the 3 games. The team has been much better, thus far, with Marshall on the court.

In short, please keep starting LDII.

[yancem]

i know, telling his team that they need to be more aggressive on offense. What an idiot!!! I mean, isn't he the coach? Isn't he able to check into the game and take a few shots?

If it rains and Roy says "its raining" you guys would jump all over that

There's big difference between "we need to be more aggressive" and "I can't get out on the floor". The first is inclusive of the whole team (coaches and players) while the second separates Ol'Roy from the team and says "if I could play, being aggressive wouldn't be a problem".

[dchen09]

The UNC/Minn game was on ESPNU, so how come I can't watch a replay on ESPN3? Sounds like I missed a good one :)

ESPNU and ESPN3 are 2 different things. Sometimes they'll show a game on both channels but sometimes they won't. In this case they didn't show it on ESPN3 so you won't be able to find the replay there.

[FireOgilvie]

OK, like I said I've never gone over there. The way some posters here ridicule Roy Williams (as you say, to the point of absurdity) I just thought it was funny that someone said the IC posters are "like children" because they called K names.

And I hear you about the relative difference between comparing someone to a cartoon character (or a used car salesman) vs. comparing someone to a rodent, but I'm not sure I see that big a distinction. When you call someone a name you are either doing it in jest or doing it to be mean. If one fan base's intent was jesting and the other being mean, I'd agree there was a difference. But since it seems to me that both sets of fans are being mean, the idea that one epithet is meaner or worse than the other is not that persuasive, at least not to me.


If you haven't gone over to Inside Carolina, you won't be able to really fathom how horrible it is. It's like a sky blue Internet Klan meeting. It's ugly.

[Waynne]

They know that if K were Coaching them, they would not lose games like this... lack of focus and effort..

Carolina has elite talent and should be a very good team this year. But last year and so far this year the coaching has been...awful. Coach Williams' game plan works great when Raymond Felton or Ty Lawson are running the point, but not so well with the current team. For reasons that are incomprehensible to me, Coach W cannot seem to devise a system that capitalizes on the considerable talents of the players he has. The offense seems to be based on Harrison Barnes going one on one at every opportunity, and the defense has been very uninspiring.

I expect UNC will have a fine season, finish second or third in the ACC, and win a game or two in the NCAAs. They certainly have the talent to do all of that. But the coaching staff is going to have to make some serious adjustments for it to happen. If K was coaching this team I think it would be a top 10 team all year and it would not have lost to Minnesota.

BTW, it is a little hard for me to feel sorry for Barnes. He has taken every opportunity to hype himself. He wants to be a businessman and obviously understands the importance of creating a brand. When one tries to make himself into a brand he creates a lot of expectations. If those expectations don't pan out he should expect criticism. Having said that, I expect Barnes will have a stellar season this year and be an excellent pro. He certainly has the talent and may simply have to overcome the fact he is playing in what appears to be a dysfunctional system.

[Taco]

ESPNU and ESPN3 are 2 different things. Sometimes they'll show a game on both channels but sometimes they won't. In this case they didn't show it on ESPN3 so you won't be able to find the replay there.

Huh. I was otherwise deposed for the Miami, FL of OH game which was on ESPNU, but was glad to find that I could watch the whole thing on ESPN3 later that night. I guess based on that one experience I assumed that everything the Worldwide Leader aired would eventually show up to be replayed on ESPN3 but I guess now that I think about it that would be a little too convenient. Oh well.

[SuperTurkey]

I was otherwise deposed

Being deposed is a totally valid reason to miss some basketball games.

[oldnavy]

OK, like I said I've never gone over there. The way some posters here ridicule Roy Williams (as you say, to the point of absurdity) I just thought it was funny that someone said the IC posters are "like children" because they called K names.

And I hear you about the relative difference between comparing someone to a cartoon character (or a used car salesman) vs. comparing someone to a rodent, but I'm not sure I see that big a distinction. When you call someone a name you are either doing it in jest or doing it to be mean. If one fan base's intent was jesting and the other being mean, I'd agree there was a difference. But since it seems to me that both sets of fans are being mean, the idea that one epithet is meaner or worse than the other is not that persuasive, at least not to me.

I am perhaps the biggest critic of Roy Williams on this site (and yes, probably absurd at times) yet I try not to call him names based on his appearance. To me that is silly, and takes away from any valid point you are trying to make, much like using profanity IMO. I slip sometimes and use profanity, and I am sure that I have called Roy "Huck" or some derivative of that before. Let me just say that I am sorry for that and I will refrain from doing it in the future. Now I will continue to use the term Ol Roy because he has referred to himself in that manner and it is descriptive of his personality and actions not his looks.

A person in general cannot help the physical appearance they are born with, but they can help what they say and what they do.

[Lord Ash]

A person in general cannot help the physical appearance they are born with, but they can help what they say and what they do.

And whether or not they dress up like a magician at their Midnight Madness event.

;)

[ncexnyc]

And whether or not they dress up like a magician at their Midnight Madness event.

;)

So that's what happened. He cast a spell and made all that talent disappear.

[shoutingncu]

I emailed my N.C. State friends after today's loss and said that at least our basketball team isn't overrated.

Needless to say, what a terrible two day stretch. I don't want to go back and find the posts in this thread that I'll respond to, but one or two mentioned that the rivalry isn't fun with Carolina stinking it up. I believe Moonpie appropriately responded to that notion, but I will, too... Carolina survived 8 - 20, we will survive this. And even if the worst happens, Carolina responded to '91 - '92, and will respond to whatever happens this season, as well.

And I've said this numerous times as it seems to come up often, but comparing the relative civility of DBR to IC is like comparing... well... any coach to the success of Anson Dorrance.

As for the game itself, congrats to Tubby. I have criticized him on this board before, believing him to be a good but not great coach. Maybe I'm still right, and he just beat a good but not great team.

The one aspect I haven't heard people mention in this thread was the foul trouble for Zeller. I'd be curious to see his plus minus for the game, as until Henson finds more offense, it seems that Zeller and Barnes will need to be options one and two. When one is shooting an 0-fer and the other is riding the bench, it's going to be a long night.

[quota]

I said it back when Al posted his pre-season ACC preview, and I'll say it again. I don't think Carolina's "talent" can overcome their chemistry issues.

[roywhite]

Question about Zeller:

I heard Hubert Davis (whom I generally respect as an analyst) say that Zeller was the fastest big man in the country from end line to end line. Is that true? Honestly, I hadn't thought of Zeller as unusually fast for his size.

[78Devil]

I can't believe how many people are drawing conclusions from one bad game for UNC. First of all, we live in glass houses and it will be our turn at some point. More importantly, I am supersticious, and concluding that the Heels are on their way to another underachieving season at this point seems to me to be begging fate to slap us in the face.

Let's just concentrate on Duke, and the rest will follow.

[CDu]

Question about Zeller:

I heard Hubert Davis (whom I generally respect as an analyst) say that Zeller was the fastest big man in the country from end line to end line. Is that true? Honestly, I hadn't thought of Zeller as unusually fast for his size.

Well, I don't know if he's literally the fastest big man in the country end line to end line as I doubt there's been an official measurement of such things. But he is noted for being a very good big man in terms of running the floor. Davis just fell prey to the classic case of commentator hyperbole (where if a player does a particular thing well, he automatically does it better than anyone else).

But yeah, one of Zeller's strengths is his ability to run the floor. If the team was better at getting transition opportunities, he would be a real factor there.

[CDu]

I can't believe how many people are drawing conclusions from one bad game for UNC. First of all, we live in glass houses and it will be our turn at some point. More importantly, I am supersticious, and concluding that the Heels are on their way to another underachieving season at this point seems to me to be begging fate to slap us in the face.

Let's just concentrate on Duke, and the rest will follow.

I agree - it's definitely fun to see them lose (this has been a good weekend for that!) but making conclusive statements about the team based on one game in November in which their best offensive player had possibly the worst night of his basketball life is a bit of a reach.

[dukeballboy88]

I have to admit, I snooped around on the IC boards and found that most UNC fans think this team is going 28-2.

[Lord Ash]

I have to admit, I snooped around on the IC boards and found that most UNC fans think this team is going 28-2.

Unrealistic, and I doubt any serious-minded Heels fans would believe that. Don't invest too much in the predictions of the more "homerish" fans.

[gumbomoop]

I said it back when Al posted his pre-season ACC preview, and I'll say it again. I don't think Carolina's "talent" can overcome their chemistry issues.

This is a big issue. For myself, I'd eliminate the quotation marks around Carolina's talent, although I acknowledge that as 3 of their most talented players are frosh, it's unproven and unlikely to be consistent for awhile. So even if one were to acknowledge Carolina's talent, we'd still have to say that talent has to overcome chemistry and inexperience.

An intriguing aspect of the chemistry issue is the coach. There's been a fair amount of evidence cited on these boards re "throwing the players under the bus," so no need for me to rehash that. But I must say, it doesn't seem helpful for Roy to have said, after the Minn loss, "I can't control my own team, how can I control SportsCenter?" [http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/blogs/109467134.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUjc8LDyiUiD3aPc:_Yyc :aU6:iPhD_oD3aPc:i_kchO7DU]

Whereas the Minn Tribune writer was unhappy with Roy's "blame the media" [e.g., SportsCenter] explanation for some of HB's early troubles, the real wowzer here was the "I can't control my own team" remark. For it (1) bespeaks more than a hint of his "woe is me" obsession, (2) is a foolish thing to say publicly about a team that obviously must be nurtured if it is to jell into a cohesive group, and (3) suggests an unbecoming, off-putting panic at the very beginning of what is universally understood to be a delicate task.

I think Carolina is talented [rather than "talented"] enough to become a very good team. Of course I thought that last year, almost to the hilarious end. I was virtually the last to see the light, I guess because I assumed that Roy Williams was a very good coach. I don't assume that these days, by which I mean I just don't know what to make of his decisions and behavior. How he handles the several delicate issues on his team will be a test of his coaching acumen. I have no idea just how much his "I can't control my own team" revealed, about his team or himself. But the soap opera seems to have been renewed for its second season.

[slower]

I don't realistically expect a repeat of last year's debacle.

But...WHAT IF????

If they screw the pooch again this year, how safe is Roy? I mean, where else would they go? Larry Brown, Karl? You've got to believe that Roy is fairly bulletproof, no matter what happens this year (and no, I don't think they'll miss the NCAA tourney again).

Silly to speculate, I know, but one can dream. :D

[calvindog]

Roy won't get canned no matter what happens this year. But I'm not all that comfortable that the Holes will perform up to the expectations they set for themselves. The freshmen look good and it's still really early; however, Barnes shooting 0-13 against Minnesota really does suggest that he's not quite the savior they were sold. The ability of the fan base to delude themselves is nothing new and they'll need a few more years like last year before they can accept the reality that Ol' Roy is not a great game coach. After his performance last year you'd think that would have already sunk in.

[tecumseh]

As Yogi Bera said about baseball only half is physical 90 percent is in your head. HB has had no real success at Carolina with which to wash this bad night away. I for one am not 100% sure "he will be fine". Shooting is confidence to a large degree if you lose your confidence in your shot it can be very hard to find it. I seem to remember a Carolina recruit who was like #1 recruit in football in basketball who played PG and lost all confidence in his shot and could not throw it in the ocean after a while

The next few games are critical for HB if he has a bad shooting night again today better call the psychologists

[fisheyes]

ESPN is asking "Which Harrison Barnes will we see more of this season....7-11 against Hofstra or 0-12 against MN?"

Ouch! The pressure is really on the freshman.

More red states than I would have guessed.

[moonpie23]

60 degrees, warm, sunny......you can hear the leaves rustling and tarholes crying....


ahhhhh.........gotta love the fall in nawth kackalacky...

[Gthoma2a]

Over-rated! Over-rated (the hyphen is for the chantability)!

[BD80]

I do have to say, the IC board is in melt-down like I haven't seen since the Doherty days. There are "All Americans" over there saying flat out that Roy can't coach, or referring to him thusly: "He's a used car salesman with a gimmicky scheme that does not emphasize basic fundamental basketball. He's also too arrogant and stubborn to see the error of his ways." ...

I KNEW there was some intelligence in Chapel Hill! It's just that they usually keep it so well hidden when it comes to issues of college basketball.


... I believe HB has the world coming down on him, whether the pressure it is coming from the press or whether it is self imposed, fact is- you can feel it when you watch the game. Roy needs to figure out a way to get through to him and get him to let it go a bit. Probably will not happen, but I can see a kid like HB, who seems to be way too aware of himself, being lost to the pressure. ...

It would be a shame for HB to be suffocated by the pressure. I didn't like the egocentric Skype announcement, but he is a kid we wanted badly, and is generally a good kid. Hopefully, he will realize that he will do better as a complementary piece in the NBA next year, where he won't be the center of attention ;)


For a young man to put such massive amounts of pressure on himself... he may end up not being good at all. ...

I wonder if Barnes stayed around in the gym shooting into the deep night by himself... again.

Well, as poorly as he shot, using his last "poor" performance as a barometer, he would have stayed in the gym and won't be out until the next game


I am perhaps the biggest critic of Roy Williams on this site... I will continue to use the term Ol Roy because he has referred to himself in that manner and it is descriptive of his personality and actions ...

Hmm, I think you might have some competition as ol' roy's biggest critic.

I will stop calling him ol' roy when he stops the "just an ol' country boy" routine.

[JasonEvans]

ESPN is asking "Which Harrison Barnes will we see more of this season....7-11 against Hofstra or 0-12 against MN?"

Ouch! The pressure is really on the freshman.

More red states than I would have guessed.

Is Carolina's typical opponent likely to be the caliber of Hofstra (rated #190 by KenPom) or Minnesota (#33)? It would be logical to conclude that quality of opponent played at least somewhat of a role in this.

That said, I strongly doubt that Barnes will be as bad as he was against Minn in other games. Despite our glee at his struggles, the kid is a major talent and a hard worker. He's going to play well more often than not.

--Jason "my opinion...Carolina is not Top Ten, but not NIT bound either" Evans

[quota]

I agree - it's definitely fun to see them lose (this has been a good weekend for that!) but making conclusive statements about the team based on one game in November in which their best offensive player had possibly the worst night of his basketball life is a bit of a reach.

I watched the game vs. Minny, and I'm here to tell you that the same fundamental problems from last year (lackluster effort, poor communication, stupid turnovers) are the same things plaguing this year's UNC team. They may have Barnes, but I don't know that he by himself is enough to save this year's Carolina squad from itself.

[Gthoma2a]

I watched the game vs. Minny, and I'm here to tell you that the same fundamental problems from last year (lackluster effort, poor communication, stupid turnovers) are the same things plaguing this year's UNC team. They may have Barnes, but I don't know that he by himself is enough to save this year's Carolina squad from itself.

This situation reminds me of a Married with Children episode. It is the one where Peg wins the personal training with that television fitness guy, but instead of him getting her into shape, she has him smoking, and eating bon-bons. Ultimately, he is so out of shape that when he goes back to work, he has a heart attack. It may not be that Barnes will bring them to his level, but they may drag him down to theirs. The culture there right now is poison.

[jdj4duke]

I said it back when Al posted his pre-season ACC preview, and I'll say it again. I don't think Carolina's "talent" can overcome their chemistry issues.

I am always struck by the frequency of references to UNC's "talent". Maybe it just ain't that good. Maybe the word talent has become interchangeable with highly recruited. After the Minnesota game, I read all the post game comments from UNC and, just as last year, there are numerous complaints about execution, missed free throws (how's that for talent?), lack of aggression, lack of intensity, etc and on and on.

If the assumption is that talent includes physical ability, mental and psychological discipline, self-motivation, the ability to be coached, take instruction, and adapt. I am not sure that by those standards UNC is particularly talented, especially at this point of the season (and I realize that this train of thought doesn't begin to address the questions about the UNC coaches and how they perform).

UNC will win a lot of games but not nearly as many, or in as dominating a fashion, as their fans think they will. I agree completely with the talent and chemistry equation in the quote above; I don't believe that they are as talented as they are perceived to be, and all the other bits and pieces contributing to chemistry, at least today, are a lot worse.

And of course I hope they stay that way-

[Devilsfan]

Please, I beg of you, have some compassion for ol'roy. Afterall his life has been such a disaster. He truely feels he is worse off than those unfortunate souls living in a post earthquate devistated island now besieged with illness. Poor poor roy.

[roywhite]

I watched a good part of the Minny vs UNC game and noticed this about HB's game:

1. He wasn't hitting his shots---we all realize that and it can happen to anybody (remember Kyle vs Baylor)

2. He was taking difficult shots (turnarounds from some distance, closely guarded jump shots) and getting very few good looks off the offense. Frankly, his shot selection reminded me of something you might see from Kobe Bryant...some tough looks, but, of course, Kobe hits a good share of those, and HB has not proven himself to that degree.

3. He wasn't particularly setting up his teammates

I'll be curious to see how he does against their next quality opponent.

[Gthoma2a]

Does anyone have a link to the Roy Aid video from last year. It is the charity one that mentions a bunch of UNC's losses, and says to give what you can. This may be in the wrong place, but I want to get this to torment a hole fan I know.

[airowe]

Does anyone have a link to the Roy Aid video from last year. It is the charity one that mentions a bunch of UNC's losses, and says to give what you can. This may be in the wrong place, but I want to get this to torment a hole fan I know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeC2EGkZeGM

[Gthoma2a]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeC2EGkZeGM

Oh thank you!:D

[kong123]

I think UNC's issues are less about chemistry and more about experienced leadership. I think this team has time to build that experienced leadership, but if the fan base remains as unstable and as blood thirsty as they currently are, then this can be another poor year.

The leadership needs to come in a couple of ways.

First, we need at least one guy who is capable of creating his own shot off of the dribble. Right now, HB hasn't shown the willingness to take his guy off the dribble. Until he is able to do this, he isn't an All-American and he isn't even All-ACC. What sets Lebron and Kobe apart from other NBA stars is their ability to do it all. Including scoring off the dribble when the team really needs a bucket.

Finally, the team needs confident leadership from the PG spot. Drew doesn't not appear to be able to recognize the opponents defense nor does he have ability to change his approach to attacking that defense. If UNC lacks the personnel to attack an offense off of the dribble, then the PG has to get the ball to his scorers so that they can score. The passes have to be on time and on target. To me, until HB completely develops his offensive skill-set, Kendall Marshall is the man to lead the offense. There maybe a bit of a learning curve before he finally gets it, but even an inexperienced KM is better than a 3rd year LD. That kid just doesn't seem to get it.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I think UNC's issues are less about chemistry and more about experienced leadership. I think this team has time to build that experienced leadership, but if the fan base remains as unstable and as blood thirsty as they currently are, then this can be another poor year.

The leadership needs to come in a couple of ways.

First, we need at least one guy who is capable of creating his own shot off of the dribble. Right now, HB hasn't shown the willingness to take his guy off the dribble. Until he is able to do this, he isn't an All-American and he isn't even All-ACC. What sets Lebron and Kobe apart from other NBA stars is their ability to do it all. Including scoring off the dribble when the team really needs a bucket.

Finally, the team needs confident leadership from the PG spot. Drew doesn't not appear to be able to recognize the opponents defense nor does he have ability to change his approach to attacking that defense. If UNC lacks the personnel to attack an offense off of the dribble, then the PG has to get the ball to his scorers so that they can score. The passes have to be on time and on target. To me, until HB completely develops his offensive skill-set, Kendall Marshall is the man to lead the offense. There maybe a bit of a learning curve before he finally gets it, but even an inexperienced KM is better than a 3rd year LD. That kid just doesn't seem to get it.

Doesn't leadership also need to come from the sidelines... before, during and after the games?

[CharlestonDevil]

Ok, so the general consensus is that UNC's main problem isn't talent, it's how Roy doesn't know what to do with it. I see the main team chemistry issues like this...

4) 09 Hangover - Obviously UNC was terrible last year. But we can already see through Roy's comments (I.e. "can't control my team", "last year was the hardest I've ever had", etc.) that his focus is not on coaching up this year's squad and reaching their potential, but on erasing the memory of last season. If things start to go poorly early on, the criticism and failures from last year will begin to infect this year's squad.

3) Talent vs. Leadership - HB is a stud, but if his performance on the court doesn't evoke pride and toughness from the rest of the team, where will the leadership come from? There are no upperclassmen to lead the way, and with Roy's inability to keep the team focused someone needs to step up. Chapel Hill could certainly use a Kyle Singler or Nolan Smith.

2) HB pressure - This has been discussed at length so I won't go in to it deeply. But as their star player he needs to come close to living up to expectations if he is to inspire and lead his teammates. Expectations that are some of the highest for any freshmen in recent memory. If this doesn't happen the entire team could be lost when you can't "go to" your "go to guy".

1) Larry Drew/Kendall Marshall/PG Play - College basketball is a game that hinges on the performance of the 2 guards, and primarily the PG. A guard who turns the ball over, can't efficiently run the offense, or is not consistent has a greater impact than at any other position. If LD3 doesn't play well, competition with the freshmen Marshall could become poison to the team chemistry. If they can't co-exist and Roy cannot foster a team first mentality, the inconsistent play could destroy any chances of a successful season. I firmly believe this could issue could control the fate of this team regardless of the play of HB.

Best case scenario all of these situations go poorly, jumping off the sinking Tarheel ship and on to the NBA becomes the focus of the individuals, Roy has more media meltdowns, and UNC flames out again.

[kong123]

Doesn't leadership also need to come from the sidelines... before, during and after the games?

sure, but players play the game and the coaching from the sideline isn't causing LD to throw the ball away or HB to miss shots. I understand the rub on Roy and I agree that he could say things differently, but he doesn't.

either the players have it or they don't. either the player is a winner or they are not. coaches are supposed to put their players in the right position to win, but the players are ultimately responsible for dribbling the ball and shooting the shots. Roy did recruit these kids and pair them with one another, so there is responsibility there. He also feels that he gives them optimum effort from the bench, but maybe he could change his tactics a bit. That will not happen, the most stubborn man in the business. There is enough blame to go around.

[OldPhiKap]

I think UNC's issues are less about chemistry and more about experienced leadership. I think this team has time to build that experienced leadership, but if the fan base remains as unstable and as blood thirsty as they currently are, then this can be another poor year.

The leadership needs to come in a couple of ways.

First, we need at least one guy who is capable of creating his own shot off of the dribble. Right now, HB hasn't shown the willingness to take his guy off the dribble. Until he is able to do this, he isn't an All-American and he isn't even All-ACC. What sets Lebron and Kobe apart from other NBA stars is their ability to do it all. Including scoring off the dribble when the team really needs a bucket.

Finally, the team needs confident leadership from the PG spot. Drew doesn't not appear to be able to recognize the opponents defense nor does he have ability to change his approach to attacking that defense. If UNC lacks the personnel to attack an offense off of the dribble, then the PG has to get the ball to his scorers so that they can score. The passes have to be on time and on target. To me, until HB completely develops his offensive skill-set, Kendall Marshall is the man to lead the offense. There maybe a bit of a learning curve before he finally gets it, but even an inexperienced KM is better than a 3rd year LD. That kid just doesn't seem to get it.

This. And it was what wrecked UNC last year, too.


Leadership can come from the bench, but you need experienced folks and players who will take ownership. One of the great things about the Duke behind-the-scenes programs was seeing how Nolan has taken the vital leadership role for us this year.

Sometimes, you have to hear it from your peers.

[MChambers]

I emailed my N.C. State friends after today's loss and said that at least our basketball team isn't overrated.

Needless to say, what a terrible two day stretch. I don't want to go back and find the posts in this thread that I'll respond to, but one or two mentioned that the rivalry isn't fun with Carolina stinking it up. I believe Moonpie appropriately responded to that notion, but I will, too... Carolina survived 8 - 20, we will survive this. And even if the worst happens, Carolina responded to '91 - '92, and will respond to whatever happens this season, as well.

And I've said this numerous times as it seems to come up often, but comparing the relative civility of DBR to IC is like comparing... well... any coach to the success of Anson Dorrance.

As for the game itself, congrats to Tubby. I have criticized him on this board before, believing him to be a good but not great coach. Maybe I'm still right, and he just beat a good but not great team.

The one aspect I haven't heard people mention in this thread was the foul trouble for Zeller. I'd be curious to see his plus minus for the game, as until Henson finds more offense, it seems that Zeller and Barnes will need to be options one and two. When one is shooting an 0-fer and the other is riding the bench, it's going to be a long night.
Nice of you to check in and give us your thoughts. I think you are right about how key Zeller is.

I'm skeptical about Henson finding offense, given that he's shooting 23% from the line. I just don't see him developing a jump shot this year, and I can't see him being much of a low post scorer this year, given how thin he is. No doubt he has a lot of physical talent, but, like Mason Plumlee, it may be a while before he is a polished scorer.

[Kedsy]

I think UNC's issues are less about chemistry and more about experienced leadership. I think this team has time to build that experienced leadership, but if the fan base remains as unstable and as blood thirsty as they currently are, then this can be another poor year.

Kong, this is an honest question, not a dig: do you really think the fanbase can ruin the team's performance to that extent?

Ultimately, I think things are not as bad as Heel fans seem to think it is. I liken this year to 2005-06 for UNC. Yes, I realize it's different when your star freshman is a wing rather than a center, but I see a lot of parallels.

I just looked it up, and the 2006-06 UNC team beat Gardner-Webb by only 3 points in their opener (in the Dean Dome) and lost to a decent but not great Illinois team fairly early on. But they got better as the year went on and ended the year as the #10 team in the country before losing in the 2nd round of both the ACC and NCAA tournaments. If this year's team did exactly the same I imagine you (as a Heel fan) wouldn't be doing cartwheels, but you couldn't call the year a failure for UNC either.

[timmy c]

This. And it was what wrecked UNC last year, too.


Leadership can come from the bench, but you need experienced folks and players who will take ownership. One of the great things about the Duke behind-the-scenes programs was seeing how Nolan has taken the vital leadership role for us this year.

Sometimes, you have to hear it from your peers.

You are right OPK. Experience does not come overnight.

This year’s UNC team reminds me of the 2006-07 Duke team that went 22-11. For all his talent, McBob was not the kind of kid who could offer leadership as a sophomore and Paulus had tons of leadership potential but was not the elite PG that many expected. The good news was that that team had several quality freshmen- Scheyer, Thomas, Zoubek and Henderson- who continued to develop over their careers.

I’m not sure Barnes, Bullock and Marshall will be around long enough to be rewarded for learning the hard-knocks lessons required to win at UNC in the future.

[kong123]

Kong, this is an honest question, not a dig: do you really think the fanbase can ruin the team's performance to that extent?

Ultimately, I think things are not as bad as Heel fans seem to think it is. I liken this year to 2005-06 for UNC. Yes, I realize it's different when your star freshman is a wing rather than a center, but I see a lot of parallels.

I just looked it up, and the 2006-06 UNC team beat Gardner-Webb by only 3 points in their opener (in the Dean Dome) and lost to a decent but not great Illinois team fairly early on. But they got better as the year went on and ended the year as the #10 team in the country before losing in the 2nd round of both the ACC and NCAA tournaments. If this year's team did exactly the same I imagine you (as a Heel fan) wouldn't be doing cartwheels, but you couldn't call the year a failure for UNC either.

no, i do not think a fanbase can ruin a season for a team, but I do think a fanbase that gets to high after a win and too low after a lose can place undue pressure on a young team that is struggling and still learning to win. Kendall Marshall's dad posted on the IC yesterday calling out all of the fan's that were already jumping ship. His attitude is incredible and I am really glad to know that there are people around the players that can keep things in perspective.

the difference for the 2005-2006 team was Tyler Hansbrough. Is there a TH on this years team? I don't see one early on. I do not want to be part of the problem. I realize that by posting negative observations that I am contributing to the problem, but this is truly like I see it. I think we will recover from this loss and I believe we will win tonight and hopefully again this week at Illinois. I will still go into each game thinking we can win, including the Duke games, but I am not confident in this team as of yet.

[ncexnyc]

One loss and the season is over for the heels. I just hope the Duke faithful will exhibit a little more restraint after our first loss.

This is so silly, people taking potshots at HB left and right. I wonder why Coach K even bothered recruiting such a no talent in the first place. Oh wait, those 9 boards weren't to shabby and his free throw% was extremely solid, despite the 0-whatever it actually was, this kid can play.

There's way to much basketball to be played before people start making some of the outlandish statements that are being posted on this board.

[davekay1971]

There's way to much basketball to be played before people start making some of the outlandish statements that are being posted on this board.

While I absolutely agree that it's way too early for people to label HB a bust, if you watched the UNC Minnesota game you saw some problems that are fundamental to the team. There's all kinds of losses, and this one, for UNC, was a bad one. They lost because they couldn't do anything in a half-court set, and because their own halfcourt defense had too many lapses against a pretty unimpressive Minny offense. They also seemed to give up the last few minutes of the game. When Minny turned up the pressure and intensity, UNC wilted.

Those are trends that, for a UNC fan, have to be disturbingly reminiscient of last year. HB's 0fer is probably an aberration...one lousy game for a talented frosh. He'll be fine. The team, as a whole, however, looked like it has some significant problems. Obviously the season's just starting and they're young and they can improve a lot. But for them to be as good as their fans want them to be, it's going to take some serious coaching by Roy. So I guess we get to see if he learned anything from last year...

My presciption for UNC: focus on half-court defense, work on creating mismatches and getting open looks in the half-court offense, turn the team over to Marshall, and run when the defense creates the opportunities. In other words, fire Roy, hire K, and play like Duke ;)

[Kedsy]

the difference for the 2005-2006 team was Tyler Hansbrough. Is there a TH on this years team? I don't see one early on.

If by this you mean there's nobody on the team who you can absolutely count on for a basket (or at least a couple free throws) in a half-court set, then it's hard to disagree with you. But what I respected most about Hansbrough (even though, as a Duke fan, I couldn't stand him) was his drive. He tried harder and wanted the ball more than anybody else and it rubbed off on his teammates. And though I hope he doesn't, I would think that Barnes, with his documented work ethic, could approach that.

It's hard to believe there are Heel fans jumping ship already.