It's signing day for Duke and college basketball

[watzone]

http://bluedevilnation.net/2010/11/team-bdn-and-tom-konchalski-break-down-dukes-2011-class/ Here is look at the 2011 Duke class. Dave Telep has some good upates going over at ESPN as well. Overall, I am very happy with Duke's four man class.

[NSDukeFan]

http://bluedevilnation.net/2010/11/team-bdn-and-tom-konchalski-break-down-dukes-2011-class/ Here is look at the 2011 Duke class. Dave Telep has some good upates going over at ESPN as well. Overall, I am very happy with Duke's four man class.

Very cool that you got Tom Konchalski's takes on our guys. Thanks for posting.

[JasonEvans]

Nice little note from Watzone--

Rivers was recruited by Collins
Cook was recruited by James
MP3 was recruited by Wojo
Gbinije wass recruited by Jmes

-Jason "lots of good info in that link-- thanks Wat!!" Evans

[MChambers]

Nice little note from Watzone--

Rivers was recruited by Collins
Cook was recruited by James
MP3 was recruited by Wojo
Gbinije wass recruited by Jmes

-Jason "lots of good info in that link-- thanks Wat!!" Evans

Excellent use of "eidetic" by Watzone.

[JasonEvans]

By the way, the really big news today will be the decision of Cody Zeller. He can either:


Revive his home state Indiana program
Become the biggest recruit in Butler's history and cement that program as a powerful mid-major
Become the big man of the future for a UNC team that appears bereft of inside talent once his brother leaves.


--Jason "I hope he picks #1, just because I always felt IU did it RIGHT and they need a break" Evans

[MChambers]

By the way, the really big news today will be the decision of Cody Zeller. He can either:


Revive his home state Indiana program
Become the biggest recruit in Butler's history and cement that program as a powerful mid-major
Become the big man of the future for a UNC team that appears bereft of inside talent once his brother leaves.


--Jason "I hope he picks #1, just because I always felt IU did it RIGHT and they need a break" Evans

Think I read he's announcing tomorrow.

[Duvall]

Think I read he's announcing tomorrow.

1 PM Thursday (http://www.wthitv.com/dpp/sports/high_school/cody-zeller-to-make-college-announcement-on-thursday).

[watzone]

My man, Andrew Slater is especially close to Tom Konchalski and I have immense respect for TK's objectivity. Andrew is our other recruiting analyst and he'll chime in later. Collins started on Marshall but Wojo closed. Each prospect generally has a lead assistant, but in Rivers case, Coach K was very pro active. As for Zeller, I would like to see him at Butler in that Crean is creepy on the recruiting trail and his rep is not all that. Dude will throw those around him inder the bus in a minute.

[mkline09]

As for Zeller, I would like to see him at Butler in that Crean is creepy on the recruiting trail and his rep is not all that. Dude will throw those around him inder the bus in a minute.

Didn't he do that with Roshown McLeod?

[watzone]

Didn't he do that with Roshown McLeod? Oh yes, but there have been others as well. He threw a hissy fit when KI dropped them.

[COYS]

Oh yes, but there have been others as well. He threw a hissy fit when KI dropped them.

On one of the in homes, didn't Crean basically tell Kyrie to commit right away or the offer would be rescinded? Kyrie's family didn't take too kindly to that kind of pushiness and immediately dropped IU. Is that right?

[watzone]

On one of the in homes, didn't Crean basically tell Kyrie to commit right away or the offer would be rescinded? Kyrie's family didn't take too kindly to that kind of pushiness and immediately dropped IU. Is that right?

There was a whole lot to it but I just don't feel comforatble talking about it in this forum. Some things are better left alone but rest assured Crean is a hoot. It's safe to say Ro will not be sending him any players in the future.

[Devil07]

Thanks for the link Watzone! Do you know if/when Coach K is going to have a presser to discuss the recruits once they have all sent in their letters?

[DukieBoy]

By the way, the really big news today will be the decision of Cody Zeller. He can either:


Revive his home state Indiana program
Become the biggest recruit in Butler's history and cement that program as a powerful mid-major
Become the big man of the future for a UNC team that appears bereft of inside talent once his brother leaves.


--Jason "I hope he picks #1, just because I always felt IU did it RIGHT and they need a break" Evans

IU is Zeller crazy. He's come to a couple of the football games and IU's midnight madness. And to the fans' credit, they also know when he's going to be here and we always let him know we want him at IU.

I think right now, IU is at the top of his list. From what I know, his ranking is IU, Butler, UNC. But we'll see how much I know tomorrow

[jipops]

1 PM Thursday (http://www.wthitv.com/dpp/sports/high_school/cody-zeller-to-make-college-announcement-on-thursday).

Interesting tidbit (http://www.insidethehall.com/2010/10/30/tyler-zeller-talks-codys-decision-to-seth-davis/)

[yancem]

By the way, the really big news today will be the decision of Cody Zeller. He can either:


Revive his home state Indiana program
Become the biggest recruit in Butler's history and cement that program as a powerful mid-major
Become the big man of the future for a UNC team that appears bereft of inside talent once his brother leaves.


--Jason "I hope he picks #1, just because I always felt IU did it RIGHT and they need a break" Evans

I'd rather see him end up at Butler. I kind of like having few mid majors having a big impact. It makes the tournament that much more exciting.

[callmecrazy]

Did we officially ink all four guys yesterday? I am looking for conformation online and I can’t seem to find any. Let me know!

[airowe]

Did we officially ink all four guys yesterday? I am looking for conformation online and I can’t seem to find any. Let me know!

Yep. Al four guys signed their LOI's. Only Gbinije's was faxed in, the other three sent theirs by mail but should be in today or tomorrow I'm guessing.
Great, well-rounded class.

[watzone]

Thanks for the link Watzone! Do you know if/when Coach K is going to have a presser to discuss the recruits once they have all sent in their letters?
Traditionally, he does not have one but he may get hit with questions after the Princeton game. I will have something soon but they do not prioritize it like say football does. All the LOI's must be in hand before they can say a word but once that is done the coaches can talk with their future players anytime they want. Rivers told me he looked forward to more conversation with Krzyzewski in an I conducted early yesterday morning for it helps them bond even more as their seasons progress.

[watzone]

One more thing is that due to a deadline and folks being on the road we rushed the aforementioned article out where Konchalski chimes in. We have now added Andrew Slaters comments and he knows his stuff inside-out, so it is really worth reading again for his in depth comments. Andrew is my fellow recruiting analyst and he's tuned into the scene in a big way which you can see by his comments.

http://bluedevilnation.net/2010/11/team-bdn-and-tom-konchalski-break-down-dukes-2011-class/

[Devil07]

Traditionally, he does not have one but he may get hit with questions after the Princeton game. I will have something soon but they do not prioritize it like say football does. All the LOI's must be in hand before they can say a word but once that is done the coaches can talk with their future players anytime they want. Rivers told me he looked forward to more conversation with Krzyzewski in an I conducted early yesterday morning for it helps them bond even more as their seasons progress.

Great, thanks for the update! I didn't recall there being football-style press conferences on the recruiting class in the past, but wasn't sure. I love hearing though that Austin is looking forward to talking to Coach K more now that there aren't any recruiting restrictions. He seems really serious about being ready to go from Day 1, and talking with Coach K more is only going to help. It's crazy, this season is just beginning, but I'm already excited for next year!

[airowe]

One more thing is that due to a deadline and folks being on the road we rushed the aforementioned article out where Konchalski chimes in. We have now added Andrew Slaters comments and he knows his stuff inside-out, so it is really worth reading again for his in depth comments. Andrew is my fellow recruiting analyst and he's tuned into the scene in a big way which you can see by his comments.

http://bluedevilnation.net/2010/11/team-bdn-and-tom-konchalski-break-down-dukes-2011-class/

That's a great read Mark.

[hedevil]

watzone - thanks for the link. Great read!

As excited as I am about Rivers and Cook (we'll see how the Irving situation plays out in regards to Cook), I am really eager to watch Gbinije's development. I really love this kid's calm and collective game/style. With all the talent surrounding him, Gbinije can really become a silent weapon for Duke over the years. He doesn't seem to make the plays for ESPN's top 10, yet he can silently suck the life out of the opponent. That guy who opponents are busy overlooking, meanwhile, he's stuffing the stat sheets under their noses.

[roywhite]

watzone - thanks for the link. Great read!

As excited as I am about Rivers and Cook (we'll see how the Irving situation plays out in regards to Cook), I am really eager to watch Gbinije's development. I really love this kid's calm and collective game/style. With all the talent surrounding him, Gbinije can really become a silent weapon for Duke over the years. He doesn't seem to make the plays for ESPN's top 10, yet he can silently suck the life out of the opponent. That guy who opponents are busy overlooking, meanwhile, he's stuffing the stat sheets under their noses.

Agree. Gbinije also fills a need at Small Forward; don't really have others in the 6-6" to 6'7" size range who are versatile players. He should be able to "mix and match" with a number of different lineup combinations.

Nothing unusual here, but if Gbinije can learn Duke defense quickly and make himself into a good defensive player, he'll get his share of playing time early and could develop into a really solid ACC player.

[JasonEvans]

We are 1 hour from Cody Zeller's decision. The rumors are that Carolina is not gonna get him. The IU fans are apparently going insane on their bulletin boards.

-Jason "this is a huge deal for UNC, IU, and Butler" Evans

[SCMatt33]

We are 1 hour from Cody Zeller's decision. The rumors are that Carolina is not gonna get him. The IU fans are apparently going insane on their bulletin boards.

-Jason "this is a huge deal for UNC, IU, and Butler" Evans

Cody talking now. Officially IU.

EDIT: Forgot link. Watch the interview live here (http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/pages/video/)

[mph]

Zeller just announced for IU.

[dchen09]

I was hoping he would goto Butler...

[CharlestonDevil]

Video posted here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA

[1991 duke law]

Cody Zeller has rejected Carolina and provided his commitment to IU. I take it that the Zellers are different than the Plumlees in that the brothers prefer not to play together. Our friends down the road are quite shaken by this rejection. I believe that they have two more big men on their hit list. If they get neither, next year will see a very small Carolina frontline (particularly if Henson leaves early).

[roywhite]

Zeller just announced for IU.

Inside Carolina folks are trying to say "no big deal", but there's a zillion threads about Zeller going elsewhere. The posters have restrained themselves somewhat probably because of Tyler being in the UNC program.

[moonpie23]

NO one over there EVER thought in their WILDEST imagination that unc would go to the NIT........and lose...

this is hurting them....

[dchen09]

Anyone know anything about their remaining targets? I know Maryland is in it for Adjehi Baru and possibly a slight leader.

What are their games like? Like so many other hs big men, they definitely need to put on some weight.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I'm just 8.7 miles away and I can hear the groaning! :D

[Bluedog]

Cody Zeller has rejected Carolina and provided his commitment to IU. I take it that the Zellers are different than the Plumlees in that the brothers prefer not to play together. Our friends down the road are quite shaken by this rejection. I believe that they have two more big men on their hit list. If they get neither, next year will see a very small Carolina frontline (particularly if Henson leaves early).

The two more big men being Adjehi Baru and Angelo Chol, I believe. People are thinking that Baru is heavy Maryland favorite, and Chol seems to want to stay on the West Coast (or at least Midwest). Seems like AZ or Kansas for him. Baru is supposed to be much more raw than Cody Zeller but have more athleticism so his upside might be higher than Cody. But right now, Cody is definitely a more polished player. I don't really know anything about Chol's game. UNC could be very thin in the front court next year. :D Zeller has the chance to completely revive a historic program in IU. I like the choice!

[JasonEvans]

Inside Carolina folks are trying to say "no big deal", but there's a zillion threads about Zeller going elsewhere. The posters have restrained themselves somewhat probably because of Tyler being in the UNC program.

Well, they do have McAdoo coming in next year as a PF and he is higher ranked than Zeller. Still, Zeller was a pretty important recruit for the future of Carolina's inside game.

-Jason "good for IU-- good to see them becoming relevant again" Evans

[dchen09]

Not sure Henson is going to leave anyways. Most of the hype surrounding him coming out of high school was because he was projected to be a 6'11 wing with great shot blocking and rebounding ability. However, it looks more and more like he just doesn't have the perimeter skills to play the 3 even at the college level, much less the NBA. If he's going to jump, hes going to have to show a solid mid range jumper and the ability to at least hold his ground in the post.

[SCMatt33]

The two more big men being Adjehi Baru and Angelo Chol, I believe. People are thinking that Baru is heavy Maryland favorite, and Chol seems to want to stay on the West Coast (or at least Midwest). Seems like AZ or Kansas for him. Baru is supposed to be much more raw than Cody Zeller but have more athleticism so his upside might be higher than Cody. But right now, Cody is definitely a more polished player. I don't really know anything about Chol's game. UNC could be very thin in the front court next year. :D Zeller has the chance to completely revive a historic program in IU. I like the choice!

I would not be surprised to see Baru's recruitment open up a little now that UNC is going to throw most of their weight at him for this year. Things can change quickly when you have a top 5 program going hard after you, which I'd imagine wasn't the case with Zeller out there. Some guys get put off by being someone's second choice, but often, their happy that a program came around at all. It will be interesting to see which way Baru goes.

I agree that Chol is less likely to come east, but it is pretty important for UNC to get another big man for next year. Right now, they have four forwards on the roster, including Knox as a senior, and Barnes, who isn't likely to be around. He will add McAdoo, but that would still leave just three forwards. Normally, Roy could just save the scholly for 2012, but with the potentially thin front court, and the fact that UNC will not be lacking in available scholarships for 2012 no matter what, I would guess that Roy will be anxious to bring in a big guy for next year.

If Baru and Chol don't work out, he can either hope that a Justin Knox type scenario presents itself again or sign a JUCO player who won't take up a scholly for four years. BTW, Now without Zeller, I fully expect to see a monster class out of UNC in 2012 (but we can always hope that falls through as well).

[monkey]

So to sum up ... Zeller picks NOT UNC!!!!

Hooray, and good choice. :D

[JasonEvans]

It is pretty important for UNC to get another big man for next year. Right now, they have four forwards on the roster, including Knox as a senior, and Barnes, who isn't likely to be around. He will add McAdoo, but that would still leave just three forwards. Normally, Roy could just save the scholly for 2012, but with the potentially thin front court, and the fact that UNC will not be lacking in available scholarships for 2012 no matter what, I would guess that Roy will be anxious to bring in a big guy for next year.

Plus they might lose Henson to the draft too, which would leave them with just 2 big men on the roster -- senior Zeller and freshman McAdoo. Yikes!

What's more, if they wait until 2012, Zeller will be gone and they would be relying on nothing but 2012 freshman along with soph McAdoo for their post play.

If noting changes (Juco, Knox-like transfer, or some hidden recruit), Carolina will be thin up front this year, next year, and the year after.

-Jason "That is why so many Tarheels were keen to get the younger Zeller on board" Evans

[MChambers]

Didn't Kong say Cody was the key to next year!

[El_Diablo]

UNC will also have incoming 2-star PF Jackson Simmons next year (a recruited non-scholarship player who had offers from some mid-majors and some DII schools). He's listed at 6-7 and can at least provide 5 fouls off the bench.

[Bluedog]

UNC will also have incoming 2-star PF Jackson Simmons next year (a recruited non-scholarship player who had offers from some mid-majors and some DII schools). He's listed at 6-7 and can at least provide 5 fouls off the bench.

Roy has also offered John Cannon, a 2-star 6'10" center out of Mountain Heritage (where Roy went), a preferred walk-on spot. He has scholarship offers from Appalachian State, High Point, Presbyterian, Richmond, UNC Asheville, UNC Wilmington, USC Upstate and Western Carolina. He thinks he can do better, though, so is going to wait until the spring to make a decision.

http://blogs.citizen-times.com/blogs/index.php?blog=15&p=12771&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

[JasonEvans]

Here is a great article on Zeller's decision (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/17855/iu-gets-symbolic-boost-with-cody-zeller)from ESPN.


The Hoosier faithful are desperate to wake up the echoes, and so Zeller's decision represented not only the signing of a good basketball player but the ushering in of a new era at Indiana under Tom Crean. Could IU keep its best players in the state? Could it harvest its best grassroots talent and become a national power yet again? Could Crean do what no one since Bob Knight had done?

Zeller wasn't just a player. He was a symbol.

Of course, it doesn't hurt that many believe Zeller's commitment paves the way for Kevin "Yogi" Ferrell, the second-best point guard in the class of 2012 and an AAU teammate of Zeller's, to go to IU.

--Jason "Tom Crean will go to sleep with a smile on his face tonight" Evans

[slower]

Didn't Kong say Cody was the key to next year!

Kong says a lot of things.

[Duvall]

Plus they might lose Henson to the draft too, which would leave them with just 2 big men on the roster -- senior Zeller and freshman McAdoo. Yikes!

Unless Zeller leaves. He *is* a seven-footer.


What's more, if they wait until 2012, Zeller will be gone and they would be relying on nothing but 2012 freshman along with soph McAdoo for their post play.

Unless McAdoo leaves. He's supposed to have that kind of talent.


If noting changes (Juco, Knox-like transfer, or some hidden recruit), Carolina will be thin up front this year, next year, and the year after.


In the worst case scenario, thin would be an understatement. Losing the Wears really was a blow for UNC.

[watzone]

That's a great read Mark. Thanks to all who liked the article. As for Zeller, there was a ton of pressure on hum to go to IU and it's no secret that Tyler Zeller doesn't always hang with his teammates at UNC. The Zellers like the Plums are good kids. This might have saved IU basketball. Me thinks Jason had a good idea where the youngest Z would end up.

[gam7]

So, basically, Roy is crushing it in the recruited, non-scholarship player market. I like it. I predict UNC will have the #1 ranked class of walk-ons in the country.

With respect to IU, I noticed that Crean recently got verbals from two of the top prospects from the class of 2014, Tre Lyles and James Blackmon, Jr. Yes, the class of 2014 - freshmen. A "commitment" that early seems like a bad idea for all parties involved.

[Bluedevil114]

Thanks to all who liked the article. As for Zeller, there was a ton of pressure on hum to go to IU and it's no secret that Tyler Zeller doesn't always hang with his teammates at UNC. The Zellers like the Plums are good kids. This might have saved IU basketball. Me thinks Jason had a good idea where the youngest Z would end up.

This tells more about how players like playing for Ole Roy. The Plumlees chose to play together but the also chose Coach K. The Wears left and now the Zellers do not feel that the best choice for Cody long term on and off the court is playing for Roy Williams.

Roy Williams should go coach an Olympic Team because they have not won a recruit since Harrison Barnes. It may be his best recruit but it may also be his last. ha ha

[Gthoma2a]

This is important. Kong's comments about Austin meaning nothing remind me of that (he said that he was ours to begin with). He said, "if we don't get Zeller, then we will have missed out on a recruit."

[Bob Green]

Roy Williams should go coach an Olympic Team because they have not won a recruit since Harrison Barnes. It may be his best recruit but it may also be his last. ha ha

While Duke fans should enjoy Williams' current struggles in the recruiting arena, rest assured, he will have many days in the sun in the future. Life is cyclic and currently Ol' Roy is down, but we are all kidding ourselves if we think he is out.

Sorry for being a Debbie Downer and raining on everybody's parade, but Carolina will secure the services of many 5 Star recruits in the future. That's just the way it is.

[Gthoma2a]

I tend to think that it is worse than a cycle for him. For most coaches, I would not see this as the case, but Roy is terrible about saying stupid things that alienate people when the chips are down. This was downplayed at Kansas due to less opportunities to say this stuff publicly. When he went to UNC, he won, and that did his recruiting for a while. Now, he is low (so he says the idiotic things), and without the winning record, he doesn't have that much. He doesn't have the same ability to bounce back from this position that most coaches do. He isn't level headed enough IMO.

[wilko]

....he is low (so he says the idiotic things), and without the winning record, he doesn't have that much. He doesn't have the same ability to bounce back from this position that most coaches do. He isn't level headed enough IMO.

I don't know him... but I hope you are correct.
I like seeing him put his foot in his mouth after walking thru cow pastures while barefoot and blindfolded as much as anyone.

[roywhite]

I don't know him... but I hope you are correct.
I like seeing him put his foot in his mouth after walking thru cow pastures while barefoot and blindfolded as much as anyone.

What a difference a year makes, eh?

Coming off an NIT appearance, and now no Skype calls for Ole Roy this signing period.

[jipops]

While Duke fans should enjoy Williams' current struggles in the recruiting arena, rest assured, he will have many days in the sun in the future. Life is cyclic and currently Ol' Roy is down, but we are all kidding ourselves if we think he is out.

Sorry for being a Debbie Downer and raining on everybody's parade, but Carolina will secure the services of many 5 Star recruits in the future. That's just the way it is.

No kidding. If Roy is experiencing a "down" period in recruiting while still landing two top 15 prospects, then I'd say he's doing just fine. So Roy just lost out on his 2nd high major recruit for the 2011 class? big deal. He's still doing better than most everyone else and he'll have monster classes coming up in the future.

[Greg_Newton]

While Duke fans should enjoy Williams' current struggles in the recruiting arena, rest assured, he will have many days in the sun in the future. Life is cyclic and currently Ol' Roy is down, but we are all kidding ourselves if we think he is out.

Sorry for being a Debbie Downer and raining on everybody's parade, but Carolina will secure the services of many 5 Star recruits in the future. That's just the way it is.

Yup - Roy aside, Carolina always has and always will recruit itself. Heck, Gary Williams could get 5-stars if he coached at UNC!

That said, each team their big comeback year gets pushed back a little bit, it's music to my ears. The Carolina faithful do not take well to mediocrity, especially if it is prolonged for any stretch whatsoever, and Roy (as pointed out above) is not necessarily at his best when his back's against the wall. Plus, each year they are not a contender means the climb back up gets a little bit longer - a championship culture gets harder to build the longer you stray away from it.

My last wish for 2011 recruiting is that Baru passes on the Heels. If he comes instead of Zeller, it could very well be an Ed Davis situation where the backup ends up being better than the Plan A (he sounds like an Ed Davis clone, actually). But if he goes elsewhere and UNC loses 2 of Barnes, Henson and Zeller to the draft, they'll probably be a middle-of-the-pack ACC team in 2011-2012. I'm sure they'll bring in a monster class in 2012 if that's the case, but counting on a group of freshman after three (hopefully) middling seasons is not necessarily the best place to be.

Good times... :cool:

[Jderf]

I tend to think that it is worse than a cycle for him. For most coaches, I would not see this as the case, but Roy is terrible about saying stupid things that alienate people when the chips are down. This was downplayed at Kansas due to less opportunities to say this stuff publicly. When he went to UNC, he won, and that did his recruiting for a while. Now, he is low (so he says the idiotic things), and without the winning record, he doesn't have that much. He doesn't have the same ability to bounce back from this position that most coaches do. He isn't level headed enough IMO.

Yes, but he still has the winning record; it's not going anywhere. Remember, he is one of the three or four winningest coaches of the last twenty years - regular season and NCAA tournament. One off-year is not enough to destroy that. Things may look down for the moment (and I'm not sure I'd even agree with that), but he will eventually get more big recruits and UNC will get back on top. Rest assured.

[sagegrouse]

I tend to think that it is worse than a cycle for him. For most coaches, I would not see this as the case, but Roy is terrible about saying stupid things that alienate people when the chips are down. This was downplayed at Kansas due to less opportunities to say this stuff publicly. When he went to UNC, he won, and that did his recruiting for a while. Now, he is low (so he says the idiotic things), and without the winning record, he doesn't have that much. He doesn't have the same ability to bounce back from this position that most coaches do. He isn't level headed enough IMO.

I wouldn't be too quick to consign Roy Williams to the ashheap of basketball has-beens. Lets see how he does over the next couple of years. This year is a "recovery year," and should show substantial progress from last season's disaster, if I can apply that term to a UNC team went 5-11 in the ACC. And, hey, 10-6 is a heckuva lot of "progress." I would be astounded if UNC were something on the order of 13-3 this year. There are just too many pieces to put together without much of a base to build on.

The 2012 season, assuming reasonable success in recruiting and retaining players, should see UNC return to the top echelon of the ACC. I think a top 25 team this year and a top ten team next year would be really good. So, lets wait a while before predicting that Roy Williams will "Be Down and Out in Chapel Hill."

sagegrouse
'FWIW Duke went from 2-14 in the ACC in 1995 to 8-8 in 1996 and 12-4 in 1997'

[CharlestonDevil]

No kidding. If Roy is experiencing a "down" period in recruiting while still landing two top 15 prospects, then I'd say he's doing just fine. So Roy just lost out on his 2nd high major recruit for the 2011 class? big deal. He's still doing better than most everyone else and he'll have monster classes coming up in the future.

I don't care if Roy is at the top of his game, as long as K is doing better.

[wilko]

...lets wait a while before predicting that Roy Williams will "Be Down and Out in Chapel Hill."

Of course you are right, but that's very little FUN!
As much as we had to endure taunts and ridicule that K had lost his mojo, that he was spending too much time, blah blah ...you've heard it all as much as I have.... if not more in some cases..

I have no guilt or reservation whatsoever in returning the favor..

Crank up the noise...
Roy has lost it, hes spending too much time on the golf course, he throws his team under the bus... Not only will Roy never be Coach Smith, he wont even be a "Coach K"..

I think Roy may just be insecure enough to crack under the pressure, IF it can be cranked up high enough. I'll call and make the reservation for him to visit John Umstead myself..





(And yes mental illness is very serious. My dad had issues so I know full well its pact on people and those around them 1st hand. So I reserve the right to make light as it suits me)

[oldnavy]

Bob's correct, Ol Roy will be fine. He is having a bad run, and I cannot help but think that a little of the shine came off the apple after last year and the insanely stupid things he did, but he will bounce back. All it will take is a good run in the NCAA tourney.

Here is what I wonder about. I wonder how much Michael Jordan's influence over UNC recruiting has diminished? HB most likely went there because of MJ, remember that his mom loved Jordan so much that she named her son after him. But most of the kids coming up now never saw MJ play, and probably do not care that much about him or his legacy. I think K's involvement with the current "hero's" of the NBA has given him a level of "street cred" that has surpassed the diminishing MJ influence.

Roy is a looong way from being dead, but he has lost a little luster because of his antics last year IMO.

[-bdbd]

Yep. This one stings for the baby-blues. As Kong indicated, this miss hurts them, as many over there at one point thought he was all but in the bag (though maybe not in the last couple weeks). This might be a chance for ole Huck to show himself -- see how well he can coach up a team not having overwhelming talent. After last year, since it didn't turn out so well, maybe he welcomes the opportunity, Gotta think the lack of front-line help can't help the effort to keep HB around for a second year... In any event, this is fairly disappointing news - regardless of what they are (predictably) saying on IC - for the gang down the road.


.

:D :rolleyes: :) :p

[monkey]

While Duke fans should enjoy Williams' current struggles in the recruiting arena, rest assured, he will have many days in the sun in the future. Life is cyclic and currently Ol' Roy is down, but we are all kidding ourselves if we think he is out.

Sorry for being a Debbie Downer and raining on everybody's parade, but Carolina will secure the services of many 5 Star recruits in the future. That's just the way it is.

Booo Hisss - let us enjoy the schadenfreude while it lasts.

[BD80]

Roy has also offered John Cannon, a 2-star 6'10" center out of Mountain Heritage ... He thinks he can do better, though, so is going to wait until the spring to make a decision.

http://blogs.citizen-times.com/blogs/index.php?blog=15&p=12771&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

Of COURSE he can!!!!


I generally try not to revel in the misfortune of others, but with ol' roy it is easy to make an exception.

Just think how things have changed just over the last couple of weeks, ol' roy misses on Rivers and Zeller while Duke reels in Rivers and Cook (but loses Adams). Sweet.

There could be more than just a down period. ol' roy has lost three players that could be playing this year, and they didn't leave for playing time. Doesn't sound like the team is fun to be on anymore.

I note that Ty Zeller does not spend time with his teammates; could there also be the issue that white players do not seem to have good experiences on ol' roy's teams recently? The Wears were treated rather poorly by their teammates in a somewhat stereotypical fashion. If TZ isn't enjoying himself, he could easily move to the next level next year (leaving future walk-on Jackson Simmons as the lone recruited white player). Losing CZ might hurt on various levels; where Marshall might keep his brothers at Duke longer, not getting Cody might cost unc Tyler a year early, and it might feed a stereotype.

[1991 duke law]

Of COURSE he can!!!!


I generally try not to revel in the misfortune of others, but with ol' roy it is easy to make an exception.

Just think how things have changed just over the last couple of weeks, ol' roy misses on Rivers and Zeller while Duke reels in Rivers and Cook (but loses Adams). Sweet.

There could be more than just a down period. ol' roy has lost three players that could be playing this year, and they didn't leave for playing time. Doesn't sound like the team is fun to be on anymore.

I note that Ty Zeller does not spend time with his teammates; could there also be the issue that white players do not seem to have good experiences on ol' roy's teams recently? The Wears were treated rather poorly by their teammates in a somewhat stereotypical fashion. If TZ isn't enjoying himself, he could easily move to the next level next year (leaving future walk-on Jackson Simmons as the lone recruited white player). Losing CZ might hurt on various levels; where Marshall might keep his brothers at Duke longer, not getting Cody might cost unc Tyler a year early, and it might feed a stereotype.

I know nothing about it but would prefer not to get into a white player black player discussion regarding the issues at Carolina.

I do laugh though at how all of the Tar Heel faithful proverbially "crapped" all over the Wears when they choose to leave, insisting that they were overrated and not needed. It sure seems like they may soon be needed. Next year can be a tough year for Carolina as they may be forced to go real small.

[Greg_Newton]

I note that Ty Zeller does not spend time with his teammates; could there also be the issue that white players do not seem to have good experiences on ol' roy's teams recently?

I realize this is a touchy subject that could quickly send this thread down the road to Locktown, but I kind of think that in the real, un-PC world, you might be on to something - although I'm not sure race is the deeper issue.

I saw Zeller at Breadman's one Sunday afternoon last year, and thought it was kind of funny how natural and comfortable he looked with his group of dorky, normal looking college friends - basically him, but not as freakishly tall. After seeing him in that setting, I remember thinking how I just couldn't really see him naturally interacting with big shot, BMOC types like Ginyard, Graves, Henson andDeon Thompson (with his separate cell phones for "bros" and... "women").

I think it's more a cultural/attitude issue than race - for example, I can see a guy like Mason thriving in that kind of BMOC culture, because he seemed to enter college fairly independent and seems just made for the spotlight. But I've kind of gotten the impression in the last couple years that UNC's players in general have seen themselves more as a collection of hotshot, mini-celebrity ballers, rather than a "family" where everyone has each other's backs first and foremost and, well, 19-year-old kids can be kids when they want to be. They seem very concerned with looking cool all the time. (I mean, can you picture Kyle Singler fitting in over there?)

As much as we make light of Roy's interesting quotes that indicate a me-first, face-saving attitude, I'm kind of starting to wonder if there's been a little trickle-down effect into the culture of the program. I think you may have hit the nail on the head in speculating that the team may just not be that FUN to be on right now.

[jipops]

I realize this is a touchy subject that could quickly send this thread down the road to Locktown, but I kind of think that in the real, un-PC world, you might be on to something - although I'm not sure race is the deeper issue.

I saw Zeller at Breadman's one Sunday afternoon last year, and thought it was kind of funny how natural and comfortable he looked with his group of dorky, normal looking college friends - basically him, but not as freakishly tall. After seeing him in that setting, I remember thinking how I just couldn't really see him naturally interacting with big shot, BMOC types like Ginyard, Graves, Henson andDeon Thompson (with his separate cell phones for "bros" and... "women").

I think it's more a cultural/attitude issue than race - for example, I can see a guy like Mason thriving in that kind of BMOC culture, because he seemed to enter college fairly independent and seems just made for the spotlight. But I've kind of gotten the impression in the last couple years that UNC's players in general have seen themselves more as a collection of hotshot, mini-celebrity ballers, rather than a "family" where everyone has each other's backs first and foremost and, well, 19-year-old kids can be kids when they want to be. They seem very concerned with looking cool all the time. (I mean, can you picture Kyle Singler fitting in over there?)

As much as we make light of Roy's interesting quotes that indicate a me-first, face-saving attitude, I'm kind of starting to wonder if there's been a little trickle-down effect into the culture of the program. I think you may have hit the nail on the head in speculating that the team may just not be that FUN to be on right now.

There is a 12yr old kid that lives down the street from me, HUGE UNC basketball fan. He attended the UNC basketball camp and went to the Pro Am at Central this past summer. He had the opportunity to meet a lot of the current UNC and Duke players. Despite being a big UNC fan he had no problem admitting to me that he found the Duke guys (Nolan, Kyle, and Kyrie to name a few) to be a lot nicer than the UNC guys. They were much more open to talking to the fans, signing autographs and didn't seem to be apathetic to the fans like a lot of the UNC guys were. Again the source is a kid who is a big UNC fan and college basketball fan. It was very interesting to hear this perception from someone like that. This can easily lead one to believe there might be a difference in culture going on.

[Gthoma2a]

That last post might be on to something. I haven't seen a personality from a UNC player that seemed remotely in line with respecting the fans. The players seem to think that they were recruited to be a star on the UNC team, but they didn't take fans into account. Their players seem to close themselves off from the fans and public more than ours. You always hear the stories about their weird lives (the formspring that Ed Davis had, Harrison's decision spectacle where he decided to make it a media event rather than a genuine day, and the Larry Drew II rap nonsense) that they lead when they are off the court. Duke players signed on to be the representatives of the program and the crazies, but the UNC players signed up to play for a program, and by the looks of last year's team, and be given a title for no work. I think it has to do with the Wal-Mart fans, and conservative fanbase in the local area. I think that last part clashes with who many of the players are.

[tylervinyard]

Yep. This one stings for the baby-blues. As Kong indicated, this miss hurts them, as many over there at one point thought he was all but in the bag (though maybe not in the last couple weeks). This might be a chance for ole Huck to show himself -- see how well he can coach up a team not having overwhelming talent. After last year, since it didn't turn out so well, maybe he welcomes the opportunity, Gotta think the lack of front-line help can't help the effort to keep HB around for a second year... In any event, this is fairly disappointing news - regardless of what they are (predictably) saying on IC - for the gang down the road.


.

:D :rolleyes: :) :p

From what little I've read over at IC, all the panicky threads are being killed and deleted so as to not appear like the sky is falling. Pretty interesting censorship practices to craft the appearance of being unconcerned with what could prove to be a huge recruiting misstep. If they lose Zeller, Henson, and Barnes to the draft plus Knox to graduation and lose out on the only other big guys they're recruiting next year (Baru to Maryland or UK and Chol to one of the teams out west) they're going to be extremely, I mean extremely thin in the frontcourt.

[Orange&BlackSheep]

From what little I've read over at IC, all the panicky threads are being killed and deleted so as to not appear like the sky is falling. Pretty interesting censorship practices to craft the appearance of being unconcerned with what could prove to be a huge recruiting misstep. If they lose Zeller, Henson, and Barnes to the draft plus Knox to graduation and lose out on the only other big guys they're recruiting next year (Baru to Maryland or UK and Chol to one of the teams out west) they're going to be extremely, I mean extremely thin in the frontcourt.

a current team member's family is being said.

[JaMarcus Russell]

Does anyone know if any committed players are going to wait until the Spring period to sign? It almost always implies that they will end up decommitting. Luke Cothron and Terrence Ross did it last year.

[COYS]

a current team member's family is being said.

I'm pretty certain this is probably the reason.

[BD80]

... If they lose Zeller, Henson, and Barnes to the draft plus Knox to graduation and lose out on the only other big guys they're recruiting next year (Baru to Maryland or UK and Chol to one of the teams out west) they're going to be extremely, I mean extremely thin in the frontcourt.

Even if Henson stays, they will be extemely THIN in the frontcourt :D

[JasonEvans]

Does anyone know if any committed players are going to wait until the Spring period to sign? It almost always implies that they will end up decommitting. Luke Cothron and Terrence Ross did it last year.

Here are the top uncommitted players thus far-
Amir Williams (Scout #26, Rivals #73) - center, but UNC not on his list
Adejhi Baru (Scout #29, Rivals #26) - PF who is considering UNC , Maryland is leader
DeAndre Daniels (Scout #38, Rivals #9) - SF, not considering UNC
Michael Chandler (Scout #39, Rivals #47) - C, not considering UNC
Ben McLemore (Scout #42, Rivals #17) - wing, not considering UNC
Angel Chol (Scout #48, Rivals #76) - C, considering UNC, but Alabama, Kansas are leaders

-Jason "Baru is the guy Carolina really needs" Evans

[Kedsy]

I tend to think that it is worse than a cycle for him. For most coaches, I would not see this as the case, but Roy is terrible about saying stupid things that alienate people when the chips are down. This was downplayed at Kansas due to less opportunities to say this stuff publicly. When he went to UNC, he won, and that did his recruiting for a while. Now, he is low (so he says the idiotic things), and without the winning record, he doesn't have that much. He doesn't have the same ability to bounce back from this position that most coaches do. He isn't level headed enough IMO.

Just a year ago, a lot of people were saying K didn't have it left in him to "bounce back." According to them, Duke and K were on an inexorable decline -- not past the Sweet 16 in (gasp) five years, obviously couldn't recruit anymore after the HB debacle. Mostly it was UNC fans and haters, but even some people around here were saying it. A year later, we ought to be smarter than falling into the same trap.

On the other side of the coin, did anybody else notice this quote from Roy (from one of the articles linked from the front page):


“It does help to be able to score,” Williams said. “Coaches love to talk about diving on the floor and drawing charges, but that thing that hangs from the ceiling or is attached to the wall is called a scoreboard.”

We can only hope his players learn from and embody their coach's devotion to defense.

[MChambers]

On the other side of the coin, did anybody else notice this quote from Roy (from one of the articles linked from the front page):


“It does help to be able to score,” Williams said. “Coaches love to talk about diving on the floor and drawing charges, but that thing that hangs from the ceiling or is attached to the wall is called a scoreboard.”

We can only hope his players learn from and embody their coach's devotion to defense.
I'm not sure why I'm doing this, but to be fair to Ol' Roy, I think he was pointing out that this year's UNC team should be better on offense, because they have more shooters. I agree, however, that he generally has emphasized offense over defense, unlike Coach K.

I also have to point out that I'm enjoying not worrying about Duke's offense this year. Seems to me that we have an abundance of scorers and shooters, so the key issue is whether the team defense will be outstanding. I'm optimistic on that, but only time will tell.

[oldnavy]

Just a year ago, a lot of people were saying K didn't have it left in him to "bounce back." According to them, Duke and K were on an inexorable decline -- not past the Sweet 16 in (gasp) five years, obviously couldn't recruit anymore after the HB debacle. Mostly it was UNC fans and haters, but even some people around here were saying it. A year later, we ought to be smarter than falling into the same trap.

On the other side of the coin, did anybody else notice this quote from Roy (from one of the articles linked from the front page):



We can only hope his players learn from and embody their coach's devotion to defense.

It is amazing to me how shallow ol Roy can be. Yes of course you have to score, but why can you not do both?? Does he believe that diving on the floor and taking charges in someway reduce your ability to score?

[miramar]

I take it that the Zellers are different than the Plumlees in that the brothers prefer not to play together.

For all we know the two families are similar in that the older brothers told the younger brothers about their respective teams so that they could make an informed decision.

I know I wouldn't want my younger brother to play for ol' Roy...

[SCMatt33]

Here are the top uncommitted players thus far-
Amir Williams (Scout #26, Rivals #73) - center, but UNC not on his list
Adejhi Baru (Scout #29, Rivals #26) - PF who is considering UNC , Maryland is leader
DeAndre Daniels (Scout #38, Rivals #9) - SF, not considering UNC
Michael Chandler (Scout #39, Rivals #47) - C, not considering UNC
Ben McLemore (Scout #42, Rivals #17) - wing, not considering UNC
Angel Chol (Scout #48, Rivals #76) - C, considering UNC, but Alabama, Kansas are leaders

-Jason "Baru is the guy Carolina really needs" Evans

It looks as if Baru had signed with...CofC all along! (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=5890692) He just didn't tell anyone. His legal guardian is the biological father of another CofC commit, explaining how a top 50 player ends up in Charleston. Carolina fans are crying foul over this, claiming that the guardian pushed him there, but without knowing facts, I can't see why its a bad thing that a guardian has influence in a teenager's life (unless of course, the guardian is named Cecil Newton). This leaves Chol as the only viable option left in 2011 for UNC.

[JayZee]

It looks as if Baru had signed with...CofC all along! (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=5890692) He just didn't tell anyone. His legal guardian is the biological father of another CofC commit, explaining how a top 50 player ends up in Charleston. Carolina fans are crying foul over this, claiming that the guardian pushed him there, but without knowing facts, I can't see why its a bad thing that a guardian has influence in a teenager's life (unless of course, the guardian is named Cecil Newton). This leaves Chol as the only viable option left in 2011 for UNC.

Wow,

Is CofC UNC's new rival? Kind of like Maryland vs Duke in the early 2000's?

First the loss last year. Then the close game this year. Now Bobby C out recruiting Roy?

:)

[jimsumner]

Wow,

Is CofC UNC's new rival? Kind of like Maryland vs Duke in the early 2000's?

First the loss last year. Then the close game this year. Now Bobby C out recruiting Roy?

:)

In the same way that Jack Bruen outrecruited Mike Krzyzewski for Adonal Foyle.

[Duke: A Dynasty]

http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1157272

The best players coming into the acc from the class of 2011 based on categories.

[JayZee]

In the same way that Jack Bruen outrecruited Mike Krzyzewski for Adonal Foyle.

All I was trying to do was make a small joke by calling out the level of quality of the team that is now a small thorn in UNC's side.

As for Adonal Foyle. He is one of the REALLY good guys out there, basketball or not. Living in the Bay Area, I have witnessed his deep community involvement, in important but not necessary headline or mainstream issues.