Who will be the Devil with the target on his back?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Every year (or nearly every year), Duke has a player that stands out above the rest. Not in terms of talent, but in terms of receiving abuse from opposing fans. From Laettner to Wojo to Redick to Paulus to Scheyer, certain Duke players are just "hated," for a lack of a better word, than their teammates. Who will it be this year?

[davekay1971]

Every year (or nearly every year), Duke has a player that stands out above the rest. Not in terms of talent, but in terms of receiving abuse from opposing fans. From Laettner to Wojo to Redick to Paulus to Scheyer, certain Duke players are just "hated," for a lack of a better word, than their teammates. Who will it be this year?

I voted for Kyle. The two main ingredients for being "The Dukie that Duke-Haters Love to Hate" are that you have to (1) be white; (2) get significant playing time. Having a certain edge on the court (ie: Laettner or Redick) is a big help, and Kyle's got that. Also, the longer you're around, the more they love to hate you, and Kyle's now a four year starter. Throw in some media love and an effusive comment or two from Dickie-V, and Kyle's got it in a landslide.

[mkline09]

I voted for Kyle because he is the obvious choice as a preseason player of the year candidate but the real answer would be the entire team. When you wear DUKE on the front of your jersey and especially after you win a National Title, they are out to get you all.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I voted for Kyle. The two main ingredients for being "The Dukie that Duke-Haters Love to Hate" are that you have to (1) be white; (2) get significant playing time. Having a certain edge on the court (ie: Laettner or Redick) is a big help, and Kyle's got that. Also, the longer you're around, the more they love to hate you, and Kyle's now a four year starter. Throw in some media love and an effusive comment or two from Dickie-V, and Kyle's got it in a landslide.

You're right - those two qualities you listed above generally are the most important when it comes to the "target." However, there is generally a third quality - the X-factor. Generally, that X-factor is cockiness (Redick, Laettner) or a strange physical feature (Scheyer-face, which I love btw). Singler doesn't have that. As a matter of fact, Singler is incredibly likable. He's composed, rarely talks to the refs, doesn't show expression, doesn't react much to anything on the court. That's why I think Nolan may get a lot of opposing-fan-hatred. But I opted for Mason, because Mason is incredibly cocky and shows a lot of expression on the court. I could easily see him becoming the next hated Duke player.

[DukeFanSince1990]

I voted for Kyle. The two main ingredients for being "The Dukie that Duke-Haters Love to Hate" are that you have to (1) be white; (2) get significant playing time. Having a certain edge on the court (ie: Laettner or Redick) is a big help, and Kyle's got that. Also, the longer you're around, the more they love to hate you, and Kyle's now a four year starter. Throw in some media love and an effusive comment or two from Dickie-V, and Kyle's got it in a landslide.

No doubt, the good white Duke player is always hated. Except for Dunleavy, I dont remember TOO much hate going his way. There was always some because of the front of his uniform.....but not Like JJ.

[stillcrazie]

You're right - those two qualities you listed above generally are the most important when it comes to the "target." However, there is generally a third quality - the X-factor. Generally, that X-factor is cockiness (Redick, Laettner) or a strange physical feature (Scheyer-face, which I love btw). Singler doesn't have that. As a matter of fact, Singler is incredibly likable. He's composed, rarely talks to the refs, doesn't show expression, doesn't react much to anything on the court. That's why I think Nolan may get a lot of opposing-fan-hatred. But I opted for Mason, because Mason is incredibly cocky and shows a lot of expression on the court. I could easily see him becoming the next hated Duke player.

I voted for Mason for the same reasons. My vote was also cast in the hope that the high quality of his game this year merits the hate. We believe in you, Mason!

[CameronBornAndBred]

Single out Singler, he's the biggest name on the team, he'll be the one with the target. The freshmen and Curry haven't had time to get under the skin of anyone yet, so they won't get it as much until next year. Nolan will get his fair share, but everyone will lay it on the NPOY candidate the most.

[moonpie23]

i voted for Kyrie. He's the heralded addition to a team with experience already........ knock him loose and there's no nitro switch...

[thenameisbond]

Kyle is the face of this team. His toughness and competativeness will make him the alpha dog. It will also make him the target for hatred from opposing fans. It may not rise to the same level as it did for JJ, since Kyle is less demonstrative on the court but I still expect to see it.

[Biscuit King]

Duh. The white guy who leads the team in scoring. No brainer.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I voted for Ryan. He's the one who will commit the foolish fouls, or at least will be called for them, and will react with facial emotions to them and therefore will elicit fan reactions to his reactions. Barring that, Kyle.

[Kdogg]

With few exceptions (Ferry, Laettner, D. Jones), it's always the shortest white player who gets playing time.

[CharlestonDevil]

Kyle is obviously the most well known at this point. I believe he begins the season as the most hated, however, I see Kyrie edging him out by the end of the year.

If you break enough ankles and split enough double teams to make people look silly then you become easy to dislike. There will be quite a few unhappy tarheels and terps by the time Kyrie gets done slicing them up.

I can picture Larry Drew standing at half court in utter disbelief after Kyrie dribbles through his legs and goes full court for a layup.

[COYS]

I can picture Larry Drew standing at half court in utter disbelief after Kyrie dribbles through his legs and goes full court for a layup.

Like this will be anything new ;). See: 22 sec. into this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3wXN0jIpnM) (Turn down speakers if vulgar lyrics offend).

[CharlestonDevil]

Like this will be anything new ;). See: 22 sec. into this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3wXN0jIpnM) (Turn down speakers if vulgar lyrics offend).

Yeah during the ESPN special last night several of the team members were commenting on how "it's amazing what Nolan can do". Smith and Irving vs. Bullock and Marshall. It's going to be beautiful.

[Devil's Advocate]

No doubt, the good white Duke player is always hated. Except for Dunleavy, I dont remember TOO much hate going his way. There was always some because of the front of his uniform.....but not Like JJ.

Not to derail the discussion, but on a related note, does anyone remember the game at GTech a few years back when one of the GTech goons delivered an intentional elbow to Dunleavy's face at the free throw line? The refs missed it. Not hated, but certainly abused a bit.

I also remember one person who didn't miss it was Boozer, who found the goon later in the game while getting back on defense after a basket and just crushed him. I don't condone intentional fouls, but if you saw these events it would put it in perspective. I think it was my favorite play Boozer ever made.

[Kedsy]

Kyle is obviously the most well known at this point. I believe he begins the season as the most hated, however, I see Kyrie edging him out by the end of the year.

If you break enough ankles and split enough double teams to make people look silly then you become easy to dislike. There will be quite a few unhappy tarheels and terps by the time Kyrie gets done slicing them up.

I don't remember too many people hating on Jason Williams or William Avery. They may fear Kyrie, but I don't think he'll be hated.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yeah during the ESPN special last night several of the team members were commenting on how "it's amazing what Nolan can do". Smith and Irving vs. Bullock and Marshall. It's going to be beautiful.

Smith and Irving vs. any backcourt will be a thing of beauty. Again, I still think Nolan is underrated. He is probably the best player in the ACC (dare I say NCAA?) with the most underused skill - the mid-range jump shot. He is the most balanced offensive player on the team from a 3pt/mid-range/in-the-paint standpoint.

He is incredible confident on the court, not afraid to do anything off the court (singing including. I love Nolan, but I'd rather listen to nails on a chalkboard than listen to Nolan sing), and is a fantastic teammate. That begs to question: why isn't he more hated?

[COYS]

I don't remember too many people hating on Jason Williams or William Avery. They may fear Kyrie, but I don't think he'll be hated.

To back you up, Kedsy, (and not to make this a PPB-worthy discussion) on many of the youtube highlight videos chronicling Williams' career at Duke, there are a multitude of "I don't like Duke but I have respect for Williams' game" comments. Compare this to the Redick videos and there is an obvious contrast.

[hedevil]

I remember Jason Williams getting plenty of hate. Silencing opposing crowds was something I remember him taking pride in. All of my Duke hating friends thought that Jason seemed cocky, although they did respect his game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember Dahntay Jones as being white. Jones came across as a little overconfident/cocky, and I loved it. He brought great energy to the team.

I think Kyrie will get the hate this year, simply due to him being involved in or creating most of the highlight reels throughout the season. Personally, I find it very hard to see how anyone could not like this kid. That being said, if you are a major contributor to Duke success, hate is to be expected.

[davekay1971]

He is incredible confident on the court, not afraid to do anything off the court (singing including. I love Nolan, but I'd rather listen to nails on a chalkboard than listen to Nolan sing), and is a fantastic teammate. That begs to question: why isn't he more hated?

Because he's so awesome that he transcends and defeats Duke hate.

Actually, I think with Nolan, he's just got a likeable persona on and off the court. Add to that, his personal story involving his father, which even the dolts on the IC board seemed to respect, and you've got a young man who's very, very hard to dislike.

[Orange&BlackSheep]

I remember Jason Williams getting plenty of hate. Silencing opposing crowds was something I remember him taking pride in. All of my Duke hating friends thought that Jason seemed cocky, although they did respect his game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember Dahntay Jones as being white. Jones came across as a little overconfident/cocky, and I loved it. He brought great energy to the team.

O&BSheep

[killerleft]

I voted for "nobody", but I would love to see either/both Seth and Andre become targets.:D Could happen if they have good years. Andre has a great stare, and Seth's impish looks could be interpreted as smartassy.

[Kimist]

Kyle by a landslide.

You have to remember that, aside from the generic "Duke hate" the player that catches most of the (fill-in-the-blank) from the opposing schools is the guy who does the greatest damage in the most unstoppable way.

And adding fuel to the opponents' fires, I absolutely love the way Kyle lets very little (outwardly) bother him.

Just go back and check some of the taunts toward JJ and Laettner and Wojo as well as to a certain extent Paulus (who was just a target regardless).

k

[COYS]

And adding fuel to the opponents' fires, I absolutely love the way Kyle lets very little (outwardly) bother him.


This is usually true, but I do remember sometime in his freshman season . . . maybe at the end of the loss to UNC in Cameron he poked the ball away from (Lawson?) as Lawson was running out the clock. I remember seeing that and thinking, wow, this guy really, really can't stand to lose.

[Acymetric]

This is usually true, but I do remember sometime in his freshman season . . . maybe at the end of the loss to UNC in Cameron he poked the ball away from (Lawson?) as Lawson was running out the clock. I remember seeing that and thinking, wow, this guy really, really can't stand to lose.

I think it was his sophomore season at Clemson...after we got totally crushed.

Edit: Yep...February 4, 2009. Lost 47 - 74.

[superdave]

But I opted for Mason, because Mason is incredibly cocky and shows a lot of expression on the court. I could easily see him becoming the next hated Duke player.


No doubt, the good white Duke player is always hated.

I'd probably go with Mason as well. He's more likely to make the big dunks and celebrate after, and is generally more demonstrative than Kyle. And the player has definitely got to be white, because that's a very un-cool attribute in a good college player.

[striker219]

I would love if it were Mason because it would mean that he was putting up some really impressive offensive numbers, but I don't really see that happening. Not to say that I think he'll have a bad year, but I don't see him consistently contributing 15+ ppg that would bring the hate. He already has the right attitude, but I don't think he scares teams enough right now to inspire true Duke hate. He won't be loved, but this year is for Kyle.

White guy - check.
Likely leading scorer - check.
Unbelievably intense/hates to lose - check.
"Dukie" Vitale and pundit love - check.
Amazing college player but "limited" NBA potential (according to many of those same pundits) - check.
Playing next to the immensely likable Nolan and instant star Kyrie (people will be too impressed with Kyrie to hate, plus no one thinks he will be around for more than a year so they don't want to invest their hate in a short term prospect) so he will absorb even more - check.

Yeah, Kyle should have this locked up.

[slower]

I would love if it were Mason because it would mean that he was putting up some really impressive offensive numbers, but I don't really see that happening. Not to say that I think he'll have a bad year, but I don't see him consistently contributing 15+ ppg that would bring the hate. He already has the right attitude, but I don't think he scares teams enough right now to inspire true Duke hate. He won't be loved, but this year is for Kyle.

White guy - check.
Likely leading scorer - check.
Unbelievably intense/hates to lose - check.
"Dukie" Vitale and pundit love - check.
Amazing college player but "limited" NBA potential (according to many of those same pundits) - check.
Playing next to the immensely likable Nolan and instant star Kyrie (people will be too impressed with Kyrie to hate, plus no one thinks he will be around for more than a year so they don't want to invest their hate in a short term prospect) so he will absorb even more - check.

Yeah, Kyle should have this locked up.

Kyle seems to be the obvious choice for a variety of reasons.

Agreed that because of his "temperament", Mason could be the guy, though.

I hope it's Kyle, because nothing can touch him. It will just make him stronger. I would love to see a pissed-off Kyle really stick it to the opposition.

This year's team could have swagger galore.

**Off the wall, potentially brilliant idea: If we ever play Kentucky again, would it be possible to add Laettner to the staff beforehand as some sort of assistant?**

[monkey]

How can people be discussing the pantheon of hated Duke players and the name Shane Battier hasn't come up? Do people have memory loss? The pure bile towards Shane has to put him very high in the list of most hated.

I voted for Kyrie. A freshman point guard with lots of hype is going to have a lot of pressure to live up to it and will be taking a lot of abuse.

[slower]

Kyle seems to be the obvious choice for a variety of reasons.

Agreed that because of his "temperament", Mason could be the guy, though.

I hope it's Kyle, because nothing can touch him. It will just make him stronger. I would love to see a pissed-off Kyle really stick it to the opposition.

This year's team could have swagger galore.

**Off the wall, potentially brilliant idea: If we ever play Kentucky again, would it be possible to add Laettner to the staff beforehand as some sort of assistant?**

Go to si.com and check out the picture of Kyle that graces the article about the Top 16 teams. That might sway some of the haters.

[Jarhead]

How can people be discussing the pantheon of hated Duke players and the name Shane Battier hasn't come up? Do people have memory loss? The pure bile towards Shane has to put him very high in the list of most hated.

I voted for Kyrie. A freshman point guard with lots of hype is going to have a lot of pressure to live up to it and will be taking a lot of abuse.
I have no idea why anyone would think of Shane Battier as one of Duke's players that were well hated. Shane garnered respect everywhere he's been in the basketball world, and beyond. He and Grant Hill were alike in many ways, and many fans of all stripes continue to admire them. Anyhow, discussion of Hill, Battier, Jones, Ferry and Laettner are beyond the scope of this thread. I'm proud of all of them. As for Kyle Singler, how can anybody hate the tall Tom Sawyer. All he needs is a bucket of paint to take care of this season. In fact, none of the current Duke players will be targets. The team as a whole? Of course, just like some of those old NY Yankee teams. Hate the team, and love the individual players.

[Kedsy]

I have no idea why anyone would think of Shane Battier as one of Duke's players that were well hated. Shane garnered respect everywhere he's been in the basketball world, and beyond. He and Grant Hill were alike in many ways, and many fans of all stripes continue to admire them. Anyhow, discussion of Hill, Battier, Jones, Ferry and Laettner are beyond the scope of this thread. I'm proud of all of them. As for Kyle Singler, how can anybody hate the tall Tom Sawyer. All he needs is a bucket of paint to take care of this season. In fact, none of the current Duke players will be targets. The team as a whole? Of course, just like some of those old NY Yankee teams. Hate the team, and love the individual players.

We (Duke fans) are all proud of them, but I think you're underestimating the haters. Shane was hated because people said he flopped all the time and because all the talking heads gushed over him constantly while for the not-so-well-informed average (non-Duke) fan his greatness wasn't easy to see, so all the gushing seemed undeserved (even orchestrated by the evil Duke conglomerate).

As for Kyle, he has a little smirk, and for the haters a little thing is all you need. Plus, he doesn't look like a chiseled athlete who can jump out of the gym, and so (again) the average uninformed fan will think the accolades and praise are undeserved (and possibly orchestrated).

Don't bother trying to figure it out. Hate, by its own definition, is irrational.

[OldPhiKap]

You're right - those two qualities you listed above generally are the most important when it comes to the "target." However, there is generally a third quality - the X-factor. Generally, that X-factor is cockiness (Redick, Laettner) or a strange physical feature (Scheyer-face, which I love btw). Singler doesn't have that. As a matter of fact, Singler is incredibly likable. He's composed, rarely talks to the refs, doesn't show expression, doesn't react much to anything on the court. That's why I think Nolan may get a lot of opposing-fan-hatred. But I opted for Mason, because Mason is incredibly cocky and shows a lot of expression on the court. I could easily see him becoming the next hated Duke player.


As they say in my church, "Bingo!"

[wilko]

"All of them" will be targets.... and when in doubt take a shot at K..

[Lord Ash]

You're right - those two qualities you listed above generally are the most important when it comes to the "target." However, there is generally a third quality - the X-factor. Generally, that X-factor is cockiness (Redick, Laettner) or a strange physical feature (Scheyer-face, which I love btw). Singler doesn't have that. As a matter of fact, Singler is incredibly likable. He's composed, rarely talks to the refs, doesn't show expression, doesn't react much to anything on the court.

Likeable is in the eye of the beholder. Kyle plays with a big chip on his shoulder and is a bit of a trash talker. People really don't like that. Plus, he is thin in the face and always looks a little beat up (thanks in no small part to how hard he plays.) As ridiculous as it sounds, add all that up and there is plenty of (stupid) reason for people to dislike Kyle.

[hedevil]

One of the main reasons that I picked Kyrie over Kyle is that Kyrie is a new face on this team. I think people will try to rattle the new, young kid who is running the offense. If you can get in his head, then maybe, just maybe can you slow the ship just enough. We all know tha Kyle can't be rattled at this level. I believe Kyrie will prove that he too can't be rattled, but he will need to prove that on the court. If it isn't Kyrie, it might be Seth, another new face.

Fans have had three years to make Kyle the "hated guy", but it hasn't taken hold as of yet. If Kyle was going to be the guy, he would be already. The "hated" honor will likely fall on a fresh or rising face (Kyrie, Seth, Mason, or Andre). Just my guess.

[sagegrouse]

That no Dukie will have a target on his back [gasp!], here is a NY Times article (http://nyti.ms/cE0wsl)on Kyle Singler. Headline: "He Stars for Duke, but He’s Not Detested."

sagegrouse

[johnb]

We're going to rock out all year, and no one will be targeted.

We like to think our guys have been targeted because they're good, but that's only a a small part of the motivation. If Laettner, JJ, Hurley, Collins, Wojo, etc played for Carolina (to imagine that requires significant dissociation and intellectualization since to fully appreciate that possibility would inevitably lead to an alternative reality filled with chaos and Duke mediocrity), we would have HATED them.

Singler is white and good, but, like Nolan, he's also seen as a blue collar, hard working player who is also a good guy who doesn't smirk at anywhere near the pace of the aforementioned players. And even Montross seemed more likable with facial stitches, and if Singler keeps leaping into the stands (cut that out!!), we'll be seeing plenty of humanizing bruises and cuts throughout the season. They could go after Kyrie, but it takes a couple years to develop antipathy, and we'd be so lucky for that to happen. Maybe opposing fans could target a Plumlee or an improving Ryan, but it'd be odd to really go after our 5th leading scorer.

[Windsor]

My first thought (and my response to the poll) was Kyle. After last night I think it will be Curry. He's going to put some daggers into some hearts with his shooting...and is certainly capable of getting hot and just unloading for huge numbers.

[bjornolf]

Mason Plumlee will be it next year and the year after if he sticks around. That cocky grin we saw last year a few times will earn him plenty of hate. However, for this year, Kyle will be it hands down. Opposing players have already gone after him a few times in the past, and he's just given them his look. He'll be the most hated this year definitely.

[Channing]

After watching last night, I think it will be Seth Curry. There is something about a deep threat that seems to ignite other fans (mainly because while most fans cant pull off spectacular dunks, they can make a three pointer with enough attempts).