PDA

View Full Version : MBB: Duke 81 - Cal Poly 60 Post Game Thread



-jk
11-04-2010, 09:09 PM
I couldn't see it. What did all y'all who did think?

-jk

CameronBornAndBred
11-04-2010, 09:13 PM
I thought Ryan Kelly made the difference. Only scores two points, and fouls out, but his defense changed the momentum and attitude of the game.

Class of '94
11-04-2010, 09:15 PM
I couldn't see it. What did all y'all who did think?

-jk

I saw the game on Inside Acess. I thought the defense got better as the game went along; and overall was much better in the second half than the first. Overall, I didn't think we were sharp offensively as a team. We missed alot of jump shots, especially Andre and Seth. I'm not worried because it's just the second exhibition game and its very early in the season. As K has said, this will be a developing team and it should get better as the season goes along. And saying that, I still see the potential of this team as being very great when everyone is shooting on all cylinders. I think this will be good for Duke because it give them a frame of reference to focus upon in terms of improving their offense and defense. Cal Poly utilized a matchup zone and that seemed to slow us down some, especially when we weren't hitting outside shots. I thought our starters looked solid offensively (I really like the potential of what Nolan and Kyle can accomplish when combined with Kyrie; and I thought Miles played well).

Duke: A Dynasty
11-04-2010, 09:24 PM
I did not get to watch or listen because I was at the gym but can someone please post a link to a place with the box score?

AlaskanAssassin
11-04-2010, 09:26 PM
I did not get to watch or listen because I was at the gym but can someone please post a link to a place with the box score?

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=7164&bView=0

DukeBlueNV
11-04-2010, 09:26 PM
I doubt we have many games this year where we only hit 2 for 15 from three... Hit a few more of those and the final score would look a lot different.

Class of '94
11-04-2010, 09:27 PM
I did not get to watch or listen because I was at the gym but can someone please post a link to a place with the box score?

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205025167

AlaskanAssassin
11-04-2010, 09:28 PM
I kind of expected Dre to struggle a bit. He seems to be going through a rough patch with his gf.


But overall as a whole, this did surprise me. I expected a better efficiency game and a wider margin. I'm sure Coach K would get them in order before the actual games.

Bob Green
11-04-2010, 09:30 PM
I listened on the radio and during the post game interview Coach Krzyzewski stated the team played defense they way they need to for 12 minutes in the second half but the bench didn't play good and was outscored by 12 points over the final eight minutes of the game. Coach K stated Cal Poly out hustled Duke in the first half (or words to that effect). Specifically, he stated we didn't half five players rebounding with the result Cal Poly grabbed too many offensive rebounds.

CameronBornAndBred
11-04-2010, 09:36 PM
I listened on the radio and during the post game interview.
You left Section21 30 seconds too early Bob!

soccerstud2210
11-04-2010, 09:38 PM
ouch.

2-15 from 3 pt

bluepenguin
11-04-2010, 09:40 PM
Cal Poly utilized a matchup zone and that seemed to slow us down some, especially when we weren't hitting outside shots.
And the first thing Seth Davis said in his article:
"Let me save opposing coaches some time in putting together their game plans: Do NOT zone this team."

Ah yes, the early season blue colored glasses predictions! Like I said in another thread, here's hoping that this season will be truly special, but lets not get caught up in the predictions based on paper. Lets wait to see how they play.

mike88
11-04-2010, 09:51 PM
Cal Poly is a solid team, and they played really well in the first half: They beat us to many loose balls and out-rebounded us by 6 (with 11 offensive rebounds). Mason rebounded pretty well, but the rest of team did not get on the boards, the long rebounds in particular gave us problems. Our defense wasn't great, either - we were beat off the dribble a number of times.

We made good adjustments coming out of halftime and played much better in the first part of the second half. The team made an effort to get Kyle involved early, which seemed to help them get some momentum.

Kyrie, Nolan, and Kyle all played well, but watching the game tonight made me realize how much Brian and Lance brought to last year's team in terms of defense and rebounding. This team is going to have to improve their team defense if we hope to end the season in Houston. We will beat a lot of teams by outscoring them, but consistent defense (including defensive rebounding) is going to be key if we want to go deep in the tournament.

It is going to be fun to see the team grow this year- they are a great group of young men.

watzone
11-04-2010, 10:02 PM
http://bluedevilnation.net/2010/11/bdn-post-game-report-coach-k-comments-and-stat-facts/

Coach K audio from the post game.

jipops
11-04-2010, 10:13 PM
Cal Poly showed a matchup zone which seemed to get us out of rhythm from the perimeter. And they did a great job of spreading our defense out in the 1st half. Anybody remember last year's AZ St game? I thought Kyrie did an outstanding job getting inside of it. The lack of rebounding killed opportunities to run in the 1st half. The first 12-15 minutes of the 2nd half was a different story. It also helped that we got the ball to Kyle for like the first 5 possessions of the 2nd after he hardly touched it at all in the 1st half. Also of note, I think our defense only allowed 13pts in the first 15 minutes of the 2nd half.

I would also like to echo a previous poster on Kelly's effort. He held is position well defensively. A couple of those late fouls were ticky-tack. I really loved the pressure that Kyrie put on the ball as well. Mason still has work to do on the defensive end, he was beaten and caught out of position a number times.

Lots to work on but lots to be happy about as well. We'll see those 3's go down more often in later games

pantone287
11-04-2010, 10:22 PM
Can't say that's an encouraging line. (3 blocks do look nice)

+-
Hairston -7 in 16 min
Thornton -9 in 8 min

New big 3 all +30 or over in ~25 min of play.

Flat all around, but real tough outing for spots 6-10.

Probably useful as a check on all the hype that's flowing in.

TaiAdmiral
11-04-2010, 10:36 PM
Hey guys. Student section highlights from Crazie-Talk coming in a few hours. Hang tight.

Newton_14
11-04-2010, 10:47 PM
Got in from the game a little while ago and put some thoughts together about the game.

The first play of the game set the tone for the night. Miles wins the opening tip, sending it backwards towards Nolan who did not aggressively move to the ball. The Tobais kid jumped in, stole it, and got a layup.

Our defense in the first half was just not there. The kids were flat, not communicating well, not moving their feet, and not rebounding. Cal Poly on the other hand, moved the ball well, had great ball handlers across their team, and shot the ball really well from 15 feet in. It was a simple case of our guys starting the game believing they were already up 40.

The zone that Cal Poly deployed was very similar to the Baylor zone and the old UNLV Amoeba zone, and to be honest, our kids just did not get a lot of clean, open looks. The zone forced you to drive and attack. We went inside to Miles and Mason early with great success, but then got away from it.

All of that led to a great teaching moment at halftime from K, and hopefully grounded our guys to the point where they now understand they will have to work really hard to be the team they want to be.

The first 12 to 14 minutes of the 2nd half was much better. Our guys were much sharper and focused. The D tightened up, and we took much better care of the ball. We went to Kyle early and often and the All American did not disappoint. Kyrie and Nolan both drove the ball and attacked, and Miles and Mason tightened their D and played well for the most part on offense as well. Mason continues to impress as a playmaker.

We also ran several really good fast breaks in the 2nd half, 2 of which involved a rebound, 3 passes with the ball not touching the floor, with both ending in lob dunks, one to Kelly and one to Nolan. There were at least 5 alley-oop dunks involving Mason, Miles, Kelly, and Nolan. We will see many of those me thinks!

We got out to a 75-48 lead before pulling the starters, and in the last 6 minutes or so our 2nd team got outscored 17-6 at one point down the stretch.

It was not the blowout most expected, but again, in a way, that is a good thing. With all the hype and hoopla, ESPNU All-Access, etc, the guys needed this. They now know for sure that 100% effort is needed at all times, and they can't just trot out there and blow teams away because they are talented.

A couple of closing thoughts.
1. Kyrie is the real deal and is a much better defender than I thought he was going to be. He is not Jason Williams, or Chris Duhon, or Chris Paul. He is Kyrie Irving and can do things that honestly just aren't fair.:D

2. Miles and Mason have both improved, and it looks like Ryan is the guy that ref's are going to pick on. He was the victim of 3 horrible calls and ended up fouling out without getting his money's worth on any of the 5. I hope this does not become a trend..

BlueDster
11-04-2010, 10:54 PM
I think this game really highlighted the differences we will see between last year's team and this year's. Just by nature of playing such a small number of players for a majority of the minutes, last year's team had such a strong identity and communication between the members. Because this team is so much deeper (at least in the backcourt), it will take longer for the team as a whole to come together as one. There were so many substitutions in this game, it must have been difficult for the players to create any sort of rhythm (note: this is not a jab at the coaching staff, testing lineups is an essential part of early games). It seemed like in the first half many of the players, even veterans, were not confident in their role or position. I think that while this team has a higher ceiling than last year's team in terms of talent, it will take a while for the team to come together. Watching this process over the year will be part of the fun, and hopefully the end product will be as great as we all are expecting.

OldPhiKap
11-04-2010, 11:04 PM
{excellent break-down}.

Thanks, Booz. -- OPK

DevilHorns
11-04-2010, 11:05 PM
Got in from the game a little while ago and put some thoughts together about the game.

The first play of the game set the tone for the night. Miles wins the opening tip, sending it backwards towards Nolan who did not aggressively move to the ball. The Tobais kid jumped in, stole it, and got a layup.

Our defense in the first half was just not there. The kids were flat, not communicating well, not moving their feet, and not rebounding. Cal Poly on the other hand, moved the ball well, had great ball handlers across their team, and shot the ball really well from 15 feet in. It was a simple case of our guys starting the game believing they were already up 40.

The zone that Cal Poly deployed was very similar to the Baylor zone and the old UNLV Amoeba zone, and to be honest, our kids just did not get a lot of clean, open looks. The zone forced you to drive and attack. We went inside to Miles and Mason early with great success, but then got away from it.

All of that led to a great teaching moment at halftime from K, and hopefully grounded our guys to the point where they now understand they will have to work really hard to be the team they want to be.

The first 12 to 14 minutes of the 2nd half was much better. Our guys were much sharper and focused. The D tightened up, and we took much better care of the ball. We went to Kyle early and often and the All American did not disappoint. Kyrie and Nolan both drove the ball and attacked, and Miles and Mason tightened their D and played well for the most part on offense as well. Mason continues to impress as a playmaker.

We also ran several really good fast breaks in the 2nd half, 2 of which involved a rebound, 3 passes with the ball not touching the floor, with both ending in lob dunks, one to Kelly and one to Nolan. There were at least 5 alley-oop dunks involving Mason, Miles, Kelly, and Nolan. We will see many of those me thinks!

We got out to a 75-48 lead before pulling the starters, and in the last 6 minutes or so our 2nd team got outscored 17-6 at one point down the stretch.

It was not the blowout most expected, but again, in a way, that is a good thing. With all the hype and hoopla, ESPNU All-Access, etc, the guys needed this. They now know for sure that 100% effort is needed at all times, and they can't just trot out there and blow teams away because they are talented.

A couple of closing thoughts.
1. Kyrie is the real deal and is a much better defender than I thought he was going to be. He is not Jason Williams, or Chris Duhon, or Chris Paul. He is Kyrie Irving and can do things that honestly just aren't fair.:D

2. Miles and Mason have both improved, and it looks like Ryan is the guy that ref's are going to pick on. He was the victim of 3 horrible calls and ended up fouling out without getting his money's worth on any of the 5. I hope this does not become a trend..

Thanks for your game-notes.

I think this was a perfect team to face for a second exhibition game. Though they are DII school, Cal Poly is a championship team, and it appears that character of being a champion came out today in terms of chemistry, effort, and unrelenting desire. Wish I could have watched it or listened, but didn't have the chance.

A few questions regarding the game:
1) During today's episode of EspnU All-Access, K complimented Ryan quite a bit. Do you feel that he played well today and was unlucky in terms of foul calls? or was he playing edgy / reckless on D? I'm guessing probably a combination of both.
2) Were our 3 point attempts good attempts from strong ball movement against the zone, or were they forced? 2 for 15. Just a bad night, or was there something more in terms of shot selection?
3) Offensively, the transition O seems to come naturally for this team. I'm a little more interested in our half-court set offense. Did we have good ball movement and good ultimate shot selection?

Kedsy
11-04-2010, 11:07 PM
Can't say that's an encouraging line. (3 blocks do look nice)

+-
Hairston -7 in 16 min
Thornton -9 in 8 min

New big 3 all +30 or over in ~25 min of play.

Flat all around, but real tough outing for spots 6-10.

Probably useful as a check on all the hype that's flowing in.

Seth was +30 in 23 minutes, which is very impressive. Ryan was +15 in 9 minutes, with 2 steals and 3 blocks (that's 8.9 steals per 40 minutes and 13.3 blocks per 40). Andre was +12 in 16 minutes. Mason had 11 points and 12 rebounds and 3 steals, but was only +9 in 26 minutes. Andre didn't shoot well, and Ryan fouled out in 9 minutes, but based on the extended box score and the plus/minus the only disappointments seem to be Josh (who still had 7 points, 4 rebounds, and a block in just 16 minutes) and Tyler, who are both freshmen who have yet to play an official game. I wouldn't say it was such a "tough outing."

Bob Green
11-04-2010, 11:11 PM
You left Section21 30 seconds too early Bob!

It was empty so I assumed you guys were all at the game.

CameronConvert
11-04-2010, 11:25 PM
Not exactly a sloppy game, but we didn't seem to be clicking on all cylinders, much as you would expect from a team looking to incorporate new parts and with a different offensive and defensive philosophy. As a whole I thought our perimeter defense was pretty good, our guards pressured well and were sharp with their switches. Inside was another matter, CPP's #24 worked the Plumlees with a series of spins and drop steps, the positioning on our end was subpar. Offensively I thought we were pretty good overall, I'm interested to see how Kyle and Nolan adjust to playing different roles this year.

Kyrie Irving is the real deal. Wasn't consistently dominant, but there were plays where he simply broke down the entire CPP defense. Can get to any spot on the court, attacks the rim well, finishes through traffic. A few turnovers, but considering what he's capable of not a huge problem. Most talented player on the team, looked better than any ACC guard I saw last season. Not saying their won't be some growing pains, but whoa.

Plumlees- Definitely showed improvement, but neither seems to have elevated their game. Upside is still their (athleticism, shooting ability, height) but so are the areas where they struggle (positioning, being strong with the ball in their hands, awkward finishing)

Curry- Ran the point, very smooth, much faster than anticipated. Needs to work on ball security. Good to see him in a real uniform.

Dre- Looked much more confident, in control of his body. Bad habit of jumping before he knows what he's going to do with the ball. Shots are gonna fall, seemed to want to put the ball on the floor. Thought he looked much more comfortable with the defensive scheme.

Ryan- He's bulked up, moves better laterally, great defensive positioning, smart with the basketball, nice shooting touch. Not sure how K sees him; saw minutes at the center, but not really a true frontcourt player. Can definitely do damage inside the paint, very versatile, will get minutes all over the place. Foul trouble mostly the result of some quick whistles.

Crazies- Considering it was an exhibition game and a nasty day out, not a bad showing. Hopefully we can avoid the annual "crazies aren't what they used to be" thread.

Newton_14
11-04-2010, 11:29 PM
Thanks for your game-notes.

I think this was a perfect team to face for a second exhibition game. Though they are DII school, Cal Poly is a championship team, and it appears that character of being a champion came out today in terms of chemistry, effort, and unrelenting desire. Wish I could have watched it or listened, but didn't have the chance.

A few questions regarding the game:
1) During today's episode of EspnU All-Access, K complimented Ryan quite a bit. Do you feel that he played well today and was unlucky in terms of foul calls? or was he playing edgy / reckless on D? I'm guessing probably a combination of both.
2) Were our 3 point attempts good attempts from strong ball movement against the zone, or were they forced? 2 for 15. Just a bad night, or was there something more in terms of shot selection?
3) Offensively, the transition O seems to come naturally for this team. I'm a little more interested in our half-court set offense. Did we have good ball movement and good ultimate shot selection?

Ryan played bad his first time in and was pulled 2 minutes later. After that, he played better, without being spectacular. 4 of the 5 foul calls on him were really bad calls, no kidding.

We did not get good open looks from three tonight. Just about everyone of them were rushed, especially Kyle's, and Andre's. Cal Poly executed that zone really well.

The ball movement was good, as was the driving, but we simply did not shoot the ball well tonight. Not a single kid had a good shooting night from the outside.

Our guys were flat from 1 thru 10. Seth turned the ball over a bit much and did not have a good offensive game, but played pretty good defense. I did not think any one of our kids were "real bad" out there, it was just a weird game to be honest. No great performances from any one of our guys, but no "terrible" performances either. The whole team was just kind of off, other than the first 12 minutes of the 2nd half where as a team, we performed well on both ends, with Kyle, Kyrie, and Nolan putting out the best offensive performances, and Mason had a good night on offense as well. He had one really good play off an out of bounds play, where he caught the inbound pass, quickly head-faked, drove and hit Kyle for a layup and foul.

ambitiouspear
11-04-2010, 11:40 PM
The fact that this is this team's second game should be of no surprise. Tons of substitutions, which may have made it hard for the players to get into a strong rhythm.

A few observations:
1) our backcourt is insanely deep. Throughout the first half and partway through the second, I kept thinking of how many substitutions were being made and then Ty Thornton was inserted at around the 8 minute mark in the second half. I hadn't even noticed that he hadn't played at all! I wish all the guys could get serious minutes, but not so sure that is going to happen...
2) Hairston's shot has no arc whatsoever
3) Irving is good.
4) Frontcourt is my biggest concern. How are they going to handle going toe-to-toe with the big felllas in the ACC and major conferences?

Looking forward to seeing how this team develops!

DevilHorns
11-04-2010, 11:54 PM
Ryan played bad his first time in and was pulled 2 minutes later. After that, he played better, without being spectacular. 4 of the 5 foul calls on him were really bad calls, no kidding.

We did not get good open looks from three tonight. Just about everyone of them were rushed, especially Kyle's, and Andre's. Cal Poly executed that zone really well.

The ball movement was good, as was the driving, but we simply did not shoot the ball well tonight. Not a single kid had a good shooting night from the outside.

Our guys were flat from 1 thru 10. Seth turned the ball over a bit much and did not have a good offensive game, but played pretty good defense. I did not think any one of our kids were "real bad" out there, it was just a weird game to be honest. No great performances from any one of our guys, but no "terrible" performances either. The whole team was just kind of off, other than the first 12 minutes of the 2nd half where as a team, we performed well on both ends, with Kyle, Kyrie, and Nolan putting out the best offensive performances, and Mason had a good night on offense as well. He had one really good play off an out of bounds play, where he caught the inbound pass, quickly head-faked, drove and hit Kyle for a layup and foul.

Thanks for the thorough response. Growing pains. Character is built over the course of the season through experiences like this one. I'm glad we responded well initially after the 2nd half. Whatever K said had these boys responding with urgency. The ability for our team to just go on stretches of domination, to flip the switch, will be something that should serve us very well in tough games this year. I'm looking forward to 15-2, 20-4 runs in mere minutes with our style of play. If a team is resting some of their 1st team players, better watch out if we have some of our cylinders pumping...

Next play!

jipops
11-04-2010, 11:58 PM
and it looks like Ryan is the guy that ref's are going to pick on. He was the victim of 3 horrible calls and ended up fouling out without getting his money's worth on any of the 5. I hope this does not become a trend..

I had similar thoughts while watching as well. I hope he doesn't become this season's Shav and be whistled for a foul before he even subs in.

Exiled_Devil
11-05-2010, 12:36 AM
A few things I noticed tonight:

CalPolyPalomino thought they could win this game until 8 minutes into the second half. They had a drive that our players did not come into the game with. Coach K gave them that drive in the second half.

Kyle didn't score in the first half. My thought was that he wasn't very aggressive. He made up for that with 10 minutes in the first 6 minutes of the second half. I think that he and Nolan will set the tone for the team, and sometimes that may feel/look like selfishness. But that's okay.

The Plumlees are both much improved at hedging (and trapping) on screens. They both did a great job on forcing the guards far out when they were screened without fouling.

Defensive communication still needs some work all around.

Kyrie is impressive. And on a solo breakaway up 20 laid it in. I appreciate that kind of player.

We may be enamored with the alley opp this year.

Mason has some nice offensive moves to get to the basket, and some nice interior passing.

I didn't see the passing-lane crowding defense of earlier years. The defense looked a little like last year wanting to be more aggressive but not entirely sure how. Insta-prediction - when this team finds their defensive identity is when things will become awesome this year.

Greg_Newton
11-05-2010, 02:12 AM
Bottom line, I wouldn't take any lasting impressions away from this game. We didn't really play hard, make shots, think about rebounding, get loose balls, guard the three pointer or play defense with any sort of discipline - you could tell by how often our guys were upright on D and just kind of jumping around that they hadn't taken this game all that seriously. And as others have said, it's probably a good lesson to learn this early in the preseason.

A couple things that jumped out at me just from a physical standpoint:

-Kyle Singler is a legit wing NPOY candidate this year. I say this because I never really bought him as such last year - I saw more as an extremely tough, gritty, savvy forward with a very good 3-point shot, a knack for making subtle winning plays, good size for his position, and great defense. He still has all that, but he just moves more like an athlete now. He has more bounce and lightness in his gait - more straight up, bouncing on the balls of his feet - and he looks MUCH more comfortable handling the ball. It's a natural part of his movement now, rather something he has to consciously think about and protect as he's running. He's in control of his drives all the way to the rim now, rather than taking one big dribble and cradling the ball into an awkward shot/pass.

This was particularly evident when he caught an outlet pass blind at a sprint, then instinctively stopped on a dime and whipped the ball behind his back to avoid charging into a waiting defender when he turned around... and never even had to interrupt his natural motion, maintaining total control and confidence the entire time. That's a BIG step from 2009-2010 Kyle, and is exciting.

-Andre looks faster, with and without the ball. I was kind of watching for this after reading he won all the sprints, and was surprised how quickly and confidently he exploded to the rim in one halfcourt set for a nice, two dribble, jump-stop floater. He's not ready to be a featured offensive player yet, but he looks more agile and confident.

-Ryan just had a frustrating night - he had a couple of passes where he miscommunicated with a cutter, a couple fouls that weren't, a couple jumpers he usually makes that he didn't. No big deal, those nights happen. He still impressed in the important areas. His hands seem much stronger than last year - a couple times it didn't look like he was in position for the rebound, but then just ripped the ball away over someone in front of him. His body language was also more positive and confident.

This team will look much, much, MUCH better than it did tonight! Agreed with Ex. below that finding a defensive identity will be a key.

TaiAdmiral
11-05-2010, 02:15 AM
Here's our recap of the Cal Poly Pomona game (with highlights):

http://www.crazie-talk.com/2010/11/05/section-17-champion-of-champions-duke-vs-cal-poly-pomona/

AZLA
11-05-2010, 02:57 AM
Thanks for editing and posting highlights tonight. I really enjoy the student section point of view.

NYC Duke Fan
11-05-2010, 03:22 AM
Cal Poly is a solid team, and they played really well in the first half: They beat us to many loose balls and out-rebounded us by 6 (with 11 offensive rebounds). Mason rebounded pretty well, but the rest of team did not get on the boards, the long rebounds in particular gave us problems. Our defense wasn't great, either - we were beat off the dribble a number of times.

We made good adjustments coming out of halftime and played much better in the first part of the second half. The team made an effort to get Kyle involved early, which seemed to help them get some momentum.

Kyrie, Nolan, and Kyle all played well, but watching the game tonight made me realize how much Brian and Lance brought to last year's team in terms of defense and rebounding. This team is going to have to improve their team defense if we hope to end the season in Houston. We will beat a lot of teams by outscoring them, but consistent defense (including defensive rebounding) is going to be key if we want to go deep in the tournament.

It is going to be fun to see the team grow this year- they are a great group of young men.

I am not going to be crazy over an exhibition game, but this is a team that is the unanimous pre-season number 1 in virtually everyone's eyes. It should not be struggling with the likes of a Cal-Poly. We are not talking about a Kentucky or a Kansas State team .

loran16
11-05-2010, 03:36 AM
I am not going to be crazy over an exhibition game, but this is a team that is the unanimous pre-season number 1 in virtually everyone's eyes. It should not be struggling with the likes of a Cal-Poly. We are not talking about a Kentucky or a Kansas State team .

I agree for the most part...the first half was embarressing.

That said, as Jim Sumner put in his recap (see the front page), the team is still adapting to their new style.

Coach K has indeed run fast paced offenses before, but in terms of pace (tempo), we haven't run a fast-paced O since 2007-2008, when Kyle and Nolan were frosh (And do recall, Nolan didn't start that year). And it shows...the team isn't quite sure yet how to balance sticking back for the boards (a major first half problem) and when to rush down the court so as to get on the fast break.

Thus it may take a little more time than usual to get this straightened out...which is why we should be glad we have 10 days till princeton and 12 till Miami of Ohio, both of which aren't terrible mid-majors.

pantone287
11-05-2010, 03:50 AM
Seth was +30 in 23 minutes, which is very impressive. Ryan was +15 in 9 minutes, with 2 steals and 3 blocks (that's 8.9 steals per 40 minutes and 13.3 blocks per 40). Andre was +12 in 16 minutes. Mason had 11 points and 12 rebounds and 3 steals, but was only +9 in 26 minutes. Andre didn't shoot well, and Ryan fouled out in 9 minutes, but based on the extended box score and the plus/minus the only disappointments seem to be Josh (who still had 7 points, 4 rebounds, and a block in just 16 minutes) and Tyler, who are both freshmen who have yet to play an official game. I wouldn't say it was such a "tough outing."

I agree there's a lot of pluses to come out of the game and it's great to see Ryan filling up the box score (fouls and TOs aside).

It's a little hard to get a gauge on things without really knowing the strength of CPP vs. an average (or below average) DI team. Given that our last two DII champ exhibitions were won by average of 48.5 (Barton (61 pts) & Findlay (36)), you'd like to see a +- ~+1/min, give or take a very wide range for caveats about different teams and strengths, etc.

Real early, really doesn't count, but it's still a caution flag on readiness of Josh and Tyler to step in.

It's great scheduling to face excellent coaching and and a cohesive team early on and I think getting knocked back a bit as K put it gives the squad an excellent chance to overcome some mild adversity.

Rudy
11-05-2010, 08:43 AM
I liked this quote in today's Chronicle from Kyrie:

“He’s the best man on our team, so we definitely had to give him the ball,” Irving said. “Two points in the first half is unacceptable.... I mean, he’s Kyle Singler.”

MCFinARL
11-05-2010, 08:43 AM
I had similar thoughts while watching as well. I hope he doesn't become this season's Shav and be whistled for a foul before he even subs in.

Didn't get to see the game. I'm wondering, given how many people on this thread have said Kelly got a lot of bad calls--is there something he is doing, in terms of the way he positions his body, moves his hands or feet, etc., that makes it look like he might be committing fouls? In a fast moving game an official might see something that often leads to or accompanies a foul and "translate" it into the actual foul. Put another way, does it look like there is anything Kelly could do that would make it less likely that phantom or ticky-tack fouls would be called on him?

oldnavy
11-05-2010, 08:49 AM
I agree there's a lot of pluses to come out of the game and it's great to see Ryan filling up the box score (fouls and TOs aside).

It's a little hard to get a gauge on things without really knowing the strength of CPP vs. an average (or below average) DI team. Given that our last two DII champ exhibitions were won by average of 48.5 (Barton (61 pts) & Findlay (36)), you'd like to see a +- ~+1/min, give or take a very wide range for caveats about different teams and strengths, etc.

Real early, really doesn't count, but it's still a caution flag on readiness of Josh and Tyler to step in.

It's great scheduling to face excellent coaching and and a cohesive team early on and I think getting knocked back a bit as K put it gives the squad an excellent chance to overcome some mild adversity.

This is a very key point. From what I read and listened to it sounds like this game was exactly what our guys needed. A VERY tough, cohesive opponent who plays hard from whistle to whistle. It also sounds like Coach K did a little experimenting in this game as well, so I would not read anything into the final score.

On another point I have seen two of the All Access episodes, and Kyrie and Ryan have been very impressive in what little bit you can see. Ryan seems to be making strong moves to the basket often and K is very pleased with him. At one point I believe K told Wojo or Collins or both that Ryan is a weapon.... I think Ryan will be our X factor this year. It will be fun to watch.

CameronBornAndBred
11-05-2010, 09:33 AM
Didn't get to see the game. I'm wondering, given how many people on this thread have said Kelly got a lot of bad calls--is there something he is doing, in terms of the way he positions his body, moves his hands or feet, etc., that makes it look like he might be committing fouls? In a fast moving game an official might see something that often leads to or accompanies a foul and "translate" it into the actual foul. Put another way, does it look like there is anything Kelly could do that would make it less likely that phantom or ticky-tack fouls would be called on him?
Zoubs got tons of calls at that stage too, he will learn to control his body with experience. I still think regardless of fouling out that Ryan Kelly changed the momentum of the game with his defense in the second half..also very Zoubish.

jipops
11-05-2010, 09:56 AM
Didn't get to see the game. I'm wondering, given how many people on this thread have said Kelly got a lot of bad calls--is there something he is doing, in terms of the way he positions his body, moves his hands or feet, etc., that makes it look like he might be committing fouls? In a fast moving game an official might see something that often leads to or accompanies a foul and "translate" it into the actual foul. Put another way, does it look like there is anything Kelly could do that would make it less likely that phantom or ticky-tack fouls would be called on him?

Well he doesn't have great lateral quickness so this probably does hurt him a bit. So there may at least be this perception that he is reaching to compensate and moving his feet when setting a screen. But I thought Ryan's positioning was great last night and he was our most effective post defender as well. The kind of calls he was getting other players on the floor, as well as our own, were getting a way with so it did seem he was getting picked on.

Kelly is going to be a very valuable rotation guy for us, I could even see him earning a couple starts. We definitely need him to stay on the floor.

NSDukeFan
11-05-2010, 10:23 AM
Here's our recap of the Cal Poly Pomona game (with highlights):

http://www.crazie-talk.com/2010/11/05/section-17-champion-of-champions-duke-vs-cal-poly-pomona/
Thank you very much for posting the highlights. I liked some of the interior passing I saw in the highlights. A couple of nice passes. I always like to see our big guys involved in the offense, as scorers or passers.


Well he doesn't have great lateral quickness so this probably does hurt him a bit. So there may at least be this perception that he is reaching to compensate and moving his feet when setting a screen. But I thought Ryan's positioning was great last night and he was our most effective post defender as well. The kind of calls he was getting other players on the floor, as well as our own, were getting a way with so it did seem he was getting picked on.

Kelly is going to be a very valuable rotation guy for us, I could even see him earning a couple starts. We definitely need him to stay on the floor.


Zoubs got tons of calls at that stage too, he will learn to control his body with experience. I still think regardless of fouling out that Ryan Kelly changed the momentum of the game with his defense in the second half..also very Zoubish.

Good to see some positive remarks about Ryan's game. I am looking forward to improvement from the other Big 3? (Miles, Ryan and Mason) especially on the defensive end.

I liked this quote in today's Chronicle from Kyrie:

“He’s the best man on our team, so we definitely had to give him the ball,” Irving said. “Two points in the first half is unacceptable.... I mean, he’s Kyle Singler.”

That is a good quote. H&H

MulletMan
11-05-2010, 10:31 AM
Crazies- Considering it was an exhibition game and a nasty day out, not a bad showing. Hopefully we can avoid the annual "crazies aren't what they used to be" thread.

Not possible! It happened every year in my time, it will happen every year in your time.

As some other posters have astutely pointed out above, Cal-Poly played a match-up zone. I realize Gottleib said, "Don't zone this team" and then we go out and shoot 2-15 from three, but you need to realize that the match up zone is very dissimilar to other zones (including the Baylor zone from last year's tourney). We haven't played Temple in several years (have we... my mind is getting fuzzy in my old age) and no one plays match-up zone in high school, so I doubt there's a lot of experience on our team playing against it. The problem with the match up zone is that you can't really flash w/o the ball to the middle or FT line extended the way that you can against most other zones (excluding the 1-3-1 which clogs up the middle a little bit more). This leads to less penetration, less drive and dish and more contested threes. So lots of good shooting teams get confused/have bad nights against a match up zone. That's why Temple was so successful under Cheaney... teams just couldn't figure out the match up zone. Oddly enough, I don't think we'll see it again this season, but if we do, at least we'll have some game film to work off of.

sandinmyshoes
11-05-2010, 10:51 AM
With the new increase in tempo, we can expect some periods of disjointed play. It goes with the territory. Hopefully it will always be accompanied by some periods of devestating offensive explosions. There are no guarantees. Up tempo play puts a lot of demands on quick decision making, which can lead to issues with inexperienced players. But Coach K is as good as anyone at figuring these things out.

COYS
11-05-2010, 11:49 AM
Seth was +30 in 23 minutes, which is very impressive. Ryan was +15 in 9 minutes, with 2 steals and 3 blocks (that's 8.9 steals per 40 minutes and 13.3 blocks per 40). Andre was +12 in 16 minutes. Mason had 11 points and 12 rebounds and 3 steals, but was only +9 in 26 minutes. Andre didn't shoot well, and Ryan fouled out in 9 minutes, but based on the extended box score and the plus/minus the only disappointments seem to be Josh (who still had 7 points, 4 rebounds, and a block in just 16 minutes) and Tyler, who are both freshmen who have yet to play an official game. I wouldn't say it was such a "tough outing."

If I'm not mistaken, it sounds like Mason played with the 2nd unit to close out the game when the team struggled a bit and gave up the lead. This probably hurt his overall +/-.

94duke
11-05-2010, 12:06 PM
Zoubs got tons of calls at that stage too, he will learn to control his body with experience. I still think regardless of fouling out that Ryan Kelly changed the momentum of the game with his defense in the second half..also very Zoubish.

Speaking of Zoubeard, he and "Insert" Johnson were there last night.
That ring on Zou's finger was huuuuuuge! :)

stillcrazie
11-05-2010, 02:19 PM
Speaking of Zoubeard, he and "Insert" Johnson were there last night.
That ring on Zou's finger was huuuuuuge! :)

Agreed. The ring nearly blinded me. It was so huge on Zoubek, I can't imagine how a smaller player could even wear it. I hope the big guy gets a gig soon - he deserves it.

Class of '94
11-05-2010, 02:22 PM
I am not going to be crazy over an exhibition game, but this is a team that is the unanimous pre-season number 1 in virtually everyone's eyes. It should not be struggling with the likes of a Cal-Poly. We are not talking about a Kentucky or a Kansas State team .

I don't know if beating a team by 21 counts as struggling with that team.......Granted, they could and should have played better; but that being said, Duke had a 30+ point lead in the second haf and could have increased it if K kept the starters in. As many other posters have noted, the positive side of this game is that the team can and will play better; and K can you use this to help the team work harder and be more focused.

Kedsy
11-05-2010, 02:37 PM
We are not talking about a Kentucky or a Kansas State team .

No kidding. Would you expect to beat either of those teams by 21?

sagegrouse
11-05-2010, 05:32 PM
I am not going to be crazy over an exhibition game, but this is a team that is the unanimous pre-season number 1 in virtually everyone's eyes. It should not be struggling with the likes of a Cal-Poly. We are not talking about a Kentucky or a Kansas State team .

Well, someone is gonna go crazy over a bad half in an exhibition, and NYC Duke Fan, you have my vote. :) ;)

sagegrouse

77devil
11-05-2010, 05:45 PM
Well, someone is gonna go crazy over a bad half in an exhibition, and NYC Duke Fan, you have my vote. :) ;)

sagegrouse

Well, over at IC they have, essentially, declared our season over. :D

jimsumner
11-05-2010, 05:50 PM
Focusing on the final margin misses the forest for the trees, IMO. Duke led by more than 30 with about 8 minutes left. Singler, Smith and Irving had pretty much run Cal Poly into the ground. Duke could easily have won by 40, had K been so inclined.

But he was more interested in getting some PT for the underclass reserves. A pity that Kelly couldn't stay on the floor.

Note that neither of the walk-ons saw the floor, further evidence that Duke was in full teaching mode down the stretch.

And some teachable moments popped up,

NSDukeFan
11-05-2010, 08:08 PM
Well, someone is gonna go crazy over a bad half in an exhibition, and NYC Duke Fan, you have my vote. :) ;)

sagegrouse

Funniest post of the day, IMHO, where I wasn't silent when I read this post.

snowdenscold
11-06-2010, 12:55 AM
Not possible! It happened every year in my time, it will happen every year in your time.

As some other posters have astutely pointed out above, Cal-Poly played a match-up zone. I realize Gottleib said, "Don't zone this team" and then we go out and shoot 2-15 from three, but you need to realize that the match up zone is very dissimilar to other zones (including the Baylor zone from last year's tourney). We haven't played Temple in several years (have we... my mind is getting fuzzy in my old age) and no one plays match-up zone in high school, so I doubt there's a lot of experience on our team playing against it. The problem with the match up zone is that you can't really flash w/o the ball to the middle or FT line extended the way that you can against most other zones (excluding the 1-3-1 which clogs up the middle a little bit more). This leads to less penetration, less drive and dish and more contested threes. So lots of good shooting teams get confused/have bad nights against a match up zone. That's why Temple was so successful under Cheaney... teams just couldn't figure out the match up zone. Oddly enough, I don't think we'll see it again this season, but if we do, at least we'll have some game film to work off of.

So what's the proper strategy for attacking it? (I don't know much about basketball X's and O's). Surely there must be a weakness, or we'd see many more teams employing it, right?

JohnGalt
11-06-2010, 09:19 AM
So what's the proper strategy for attacking it? (I don't know much about basketball X's and O's). Surely there must be a weakness, or we'd see many more teams employing it, right?

I'm by no means an expert, but I think the biggest knock on the matchup zone (whether 2-3, 1-3-1, et al) is its failure to properly cover the passing lanes. By shifting out from the traditional location in the 'zone' to the proper position to matchup with the offensive player it opens up passing lanes for offensive drives and cuts. If you have several individuals who are capable of breaking down their defenders, it will basically open up the entire defensive scheme for the rest of the team.

Anyone else care to add?

OldPhiKap
11-06-2010, 09:44 AM
So what's the proper strategy for attacking it? (I don't know much about basketball X's and O's). Surely there must be a weakness, or we'd see many more teams employing it, right?

UNLV had the vaunted amoeba match-up, which K cracked.

The best way to break it is, I think, either:

1. Kyrie Irving, the one-man defensive buster, driving on his man and then kicking to the open man as the defense collapses; or

2. Flashing someone like Kyle to the top of the paint, where he can shoot or distribute.

dukeballboy88
11-06-2010, 10:36 AM
I think this Duke team is so deep and good that when an opponent keeps it under 20 the majority of the game, the opposing fans will say duke really struggled!

Saratoga2
11-06-2010, 12:29 PM
I don't know if beating a team by 21 counts as struggling with that team.......Granted, they could and should have played better; but that being said, Duke had a 30+ point lead in the second haf and could have increased it if K kept the starters in. As many other posters have noted, the positive side of this game is that the team can and will play better; and K can you use this to help the team work harder and be more focused.

I didn't see the game but read the posts with interest. There was very little time for the team to practice together before the game and a break of 7 days until the season starts. There were a lot of small shortcomings mentioned in the posts that the coaching staff can improve on in these 7 days prior to the next game. The idea that all players rebound until possession is gained, dealing with the matchup zone, better communication and passing, better defensive positioning by a couple of the players, getting Singler involved earlier, etc. Coach K will make improvements every week on a team that has enormous potential. Barring injuries, this team will be there deep into the tournament.

Shooting will come around as this team has great depth and ability, with Dawkins and Curry both likely to have impressive years. Looking forward to televised games where I can see these kids in competition.