Harrison Barnes = same impact as Derrick Favors?

[Im4howdy]

The above thought struck me the other night. Both were highly rated/#1 prospects, 1-&-doners, joining teams with (some) talent, expected to take said teams back into the national spotlight.

I realize Hewitt is no comparison to 'Ol Roy, but the Ga. Tech team Favors joined had better/more proven talent than the Holes. I'm wondering if Barnes will be exceptional, lik Favors was, but not put the team on his back and carry them to the Promised Land, as hoped.

Any thoughts?

[ChillinDuke]

An interesting thought. And curious to see what more knowledgeable posters than myself think.

But it sure sounds like Barnes is better than Favors at this stage in his development. Make no mistake, Favors was an excellent talent. But Barnes just sounds like (by almost every account that I've read) he is a rare player that is exceptional in most facets of the game.

Also, I tend to think that big men take longer to develop than wings, so Barnes may have a better opportunity to shoulder the load, so to speak.

Other thoughts?

[Bob Green]

Derrick Favors benefited from playing in a front court alongside Gani Lawal and Zach Peacock. I'm not sure Barnes will have an equivalent level of talent supporting his efforts this year at Carolina as the jury is still out on Henson and Zeller. Carolina is in a situation where their freshmen and sophomores have to step up and be the dominant players on the team.

Your question is certainly thought provoking.

[Cockabeau]

Derrick Favors was good but I thought he was going to dominate the post from day one...he didn't even come close to that

[DukieInBrasil]

I think that Mr. Barnes is coming to UNC with a bit more hype than did Favors and he has more expectations on him due to the aforementioned lack of known quality on the UNC squad. I think people were pretty aware that Lawal was a real talent and that Peacock was good too. Part of the hype may in fact be the expectations placed on HB.
If Barnes puts up identical numbers as those put up by Favors it wouldn't be enough to keep UNC in the top 10, maybe around 20 or so. Even if HB were to score a few more points and grab a few less rebounds (to reflect more of what is expected of their positions) it wouldn't benefit UNC enough to make them top-10 material.
UNC just has too many q?s at the PG position to be able to realistically use their front-court talent adequately. Heaven forbid, but imagine UNC with Brandon Knight rather than Marshall at the PG. Instantly Drew II is not the starting PG anymore and Ol' Roy's got somebody to run his daggum offense. THEN they'd be top-5 material. But neither Drew nor Marshall will be good enough to get their O to work well.

[jimsumner]

Barnes has a better motor than Favors and a higher basketball IQ. Favors took off too many plays, he suffered from erratic PG play and his head coach couldn't figure out how to solve either problem. Favors could dominate at times, but IMO, he underachieved last year.

I'd be amazed if Barnes isn't a good deal better this season than Favors was last season and even more amazed if UNC flirts with a .500 mark in the ACC.

[Oriole Way]

I don't think they are very comparable players (aside from being consensus top recruits and impact freshmen). Favors is more of a power forward, Barnes is more of a small forward/shooting forward who has more ball handling and long-range shooting skills.

Favors operated exclusively in the post, whereas Barnes will play much more on the perimeter, and more as an inside/outside player. Barnes will have the ball a lot more in his hands, while Favors was dependent on his guards to feed him the ball in the post.

What will make Barnes much more of an impact player is his ability to score from various spots on the floor. He can shoot, post up, and slash to the basket. He is a great free throw shooter, whereas Favors was well below average. Barnes will be much closer to Kyle Singler (with better slashing ability, better on-the-move mid-range jumper, and inferior 3-pt jumper), while Favors was more similar to a taller, slightly leaner version of a freshman Elton Brand.

[loran16]

Ummm no. Favors had a guy known for having players underperform their talents. Roy, not so much.

[BattierBattalion]

I doubt it. Favors was working with a god-awful backcourt and coach, who couldn't figure out how to get him the ball. Very little offense flowed through him. He scored mainly off putbacks.

I actually envision Barnes becoming an Evan Turner/Lebron type, where the offense goes through him. We'll see if Roy figures this out though or continues to have Larry Drew lob secondary break passes into the 4th row.

[Oriole Way]

I doubt it. Favors was working with a god-awful backcourt and coach, who couldn't figure out how to get him the ball. Very little offense flowed through him. He scored mainly off putbacks.

I actually envision Barnes becoming an Evan Turner/Lebron type, where the offense goes through him. We'll see if Roy figures this out though or continues to have Larry Drew lob secondary break passes into the 4th row.

I don't think Barnes has that kind of passing ability. The player to which I believe Barnes is most similar (or will be most similar to) in the NBA is Joe Johnson. I expect Barnes will be a better slasher, but not as good a 3-pt shooter as Johnson. For a small forward, Johnson racks up a good amount of assists and is a very good passer, so perhaps your Turner/James comps are more applicable than I think.

[kong123]

I do not think the offense will run through HB. Roy still wants to run when he can and when they get to a half court set, start by looking inside. However, if HB and the boys get hot from outside, I can see that changing. Watching video of him, he does appear to be a much better one on one player than I originally thought. He also has shown the ability to shoot the ball well from outside. Roy said he is capable of scoring lots of points without dominating the ball. Being very efficient will make him even more dangerous and will create opportunities for him to pass the ball.

I tried to think of a good comparison for him and couldn't. Maybe Stackhouse would be a good comparison? HB jumps very well and he probably shoots the ball better than Stack, but does he have a knack for always being in the right place at the right time? I believe HB's work effort will allow him to be the best that he can be. I am not sure about Favors work ethic, but I do remember him taking plays off. As always, having teammates that know how to get him the ball when he is in a position to score is key. That is something that last years Duke team did very well and something that the UNC team failed at miserably. HB can be good on his own, but for him to be great, he will need some help from his friends.

[ajgoodfella7]

I think the thing that sets Barnes apart from Favors as others have stated, is he has a better motor, is more versatile, and has a higher basketball IQ. He was no doubt the best all-around player in his class. However, I have to agree with the Seth Davis article in that I think UNC fans are getting their hopes up a little too high for what they are expecting out of him in his freshman season.

I don't see Barnes as having Lebron James' or Carmelo Anthony's natural talent. In fact, I think the player he reminds me most of is Luol Deng (who was #2 overall in 2003). Deng was an absolutely great player here as a freshman averaging over 15 points and around 7 rebounds per game. I would expect Barnes to have similar numbers. And while Deng was a great player his freshman year in college, I think it is obvious that he has not played at the same level as the other 2 in the NBA. That is about where I expect Barnes to be as well.

The question for UNC is, do they have enough experienced talent around him to make a run in the tournament? I think that is still up for debate.

[fgb]

my feeling is that, as a team, unc is going to rely on hb this season way more than a team should rely on any player.

[-bdbd]

Harrison who???

[Faison1]

I'd be amazed if Barnes isn't a good deal better this season than Favors was last season and even more amazed if UNC flirts with a .500 mark in the ACC.

More amazed if they play above or below a .500?

[moonpie23]

you know....Wall was the one that UK looked to with regards to "bringing UK back to the top." and wall relished the role...when things were tight, he willed them to win in some close games and was the "go-to" guy......his supporting cast was much more talented than what unc has for you-know-who....

will HWNSNBM take on the responsibility as well? I've said before that if he immediately assumes the leadership of the team AS WELL as the task of leading the tarholes "back", the pressure will be great....if he plays ala john wall, and his supporting cast ratchets up their play as well, the holes will be good.....

BUT.....

if anything goes wrong, if they falter, the onus of unc's legacy will fall directly on this young man's shoulders....

[wilko]

I know its mean-spirited and petty of me.... however, pls pardon me for wishing something a more akin to a Washburn-ian flame-out.
(Sans the personal issues - I wouldnt wish those on anyone... well not anyone I'd name on the board..)

[Devilsfan]

It's sad but I am wishing with you.

[Ultrarunner]

Barnes has a better motor than Favors and a higher basketball IQ. Favors took off too many plays, he suffered from erratic PG play and his head coach couldn't figure out how to solve either problem. Favors could dominate at times, but IMO, he underachieved last year.

I'd be amazed if Barnes isn't a good deal better this season than Favors was last season and even more amazed if UNC flirts with a .500 mark in the ACC.

In addition to the better motor (already evident by the extra work he's voluntarily performing) and the high BB IQ, Barnes arrives far more skilled in the game. My impression was that Favors was always considered a formidable athlete but was rough around the edges especially on the offensive end.

Barnes already possesses a very good offensive set of weapons, rebounds well for his size (so far - he'll be moving up in class and it won't be as easy for him) and is a good passer. Defense will have to be a wait and see process - the competition at the high school level wasn't that good and all-star games don't show much here. I expect him to put the same effort in on defense that he has on offense.

The knock I've heard about him is that he isn't an "elite" athlete compared to players like John Wall or Durant. He obviously is a good enough athlete though with very good skills. That makes for a very good basketball player. Personally, I'd rather line up against Favors.

[jimsumner]

I know its mean-spirited and petty of me.... however, pls pardon me for wishing something a more akin to a Washburn-ian flame-out.
(Sans the personal issues - I wouldnt wish those on anyone... well not anyone I'd name on the board..)

I'm not sure I understand the distinction. Washburn lost most of his freshman season to some personal issues. He had a pretty good sophomore season and was the 3rd pick in the NBA draft. Then his personal issues spiraled out of control and his career was over. His flame-out was a direct result of his personal issues. I don't see how they can be separated.

To answer an earlier query, I would expect UNC to be well above .500 this season, both in and out of the conference.

[SeattleIrish]

I think the thing that sets Barnes apart from Favors as others have stated, is he has a better motor, is more versatile, and has a higher basketball IQ. He was no doubt the best all-around player in his class. However, I have to agree with the Seth Davis article in that I think UNC fans are getting their hopes up a little too high for what they are expecting out of him in his freshman season.

I don't see Barnes as having Lebron James' or Carmelo Anthony's natural talent. In fact, I think the player he reminds me most of is Luol Deng (who was #2 overall in 2003). Deng was an absolutely great player here as a freshman averaging over 15 points and around 7 rebounds per game. I would expect Barnes to have similar numbers. And while Deng was a great player his freshman year in college, I think it is obvious that he has not played at the same level as the other 2 in the NBA. That is about where I expect Barnes to be as well.

The question for UNC is, do they have enough experienced talent around him to make a run in the tournament? I think that is still up for debate.

THe Deng comparison is much more apt than James/Anthony, I agree. From everything I've read, Barnes isn't the type of guy who can blow by you with raw athleticism, like Stackhouse or some of the other players listed in this thread. He's a guy who makes others better and plays within the game.

Personally, while I have a great deal of respect for that approach, I'm glad he's not another athletic freak - we've been killed by those types in the past and I'd rather take my chances against a more cerebral player; I'll take K against Roy in any chess match.

s.i.

[Faison1]

To answer an earlier query, I would expect UNC to be well above .500 this season, both in and out of the conference.

Thanks for the clarification, Jim. I would expect them to be quite a bit better, too. And much of it will have to do with Barnes, IMO....that guy seems to carry himself pretty well, as his personal drive has been well documented.

Although things have worked out very well for Duke in the last year since his pledge to UNC, I still think his personality would fit the Duke environment much better.