FB: Duke @ Navy Pre-game and In-Game thread

[Bob Green]

Duke travels to Annapolis to take on the Midshipmen this Saturday. Navy is a good team with a very strong running game, but they are not unbeatable. This is a game Duke is capable of winning if we play a little better and don't turn the ball over. I'll get the discussion started with a couple of general questions.

Hugh Millen, former NFL and Washington Huskies QB, was discussing the quick slant route on Seattle sports radio (KGR-AM 950) a couple of days ago and his comments seem appropriate to share here at DBR. I desire to be very clear up front, Millen was discussing the Washington Huskies not Duke. I'm the one taking his comments and applying them to things I've observed in Duke games this season.

Millen stated the quick slant is a timing route designed to be run with the QB taking a quick drop back from under center and delivering the ball. He went on to elaborate that when executed out of a shotgun formation the pass is inherently late.

It seems to me, last season, Thad Lewis had great success throwing the quick slant as well as the wide receiver screen. This season Sean Renfree has had less success with the slant route and seems to go to the wide receiver screen as his bread and butter play. Lewis lined up both under center and in the shotgun, while Renfree is exclusively running the offense out of the shotgun and pistol formations.

My question, to those on the board who know a lot more about the X's and O's of football than I do, is does Hugh Millen's comments partially explain some of the offensive woes we are currently experiencing or am I grasping at straws for an explanation? I realize Coach Cutcliffe is a QB maestro but Hugh Millen played in the NFL for nine seasons so his comments have merit. Would the offense benefit if Renfree moved up under center for 10-12 plays a game?

Thoughts?

[OldPhiKap]

I'm not sure if the problem is where he starts the play. It's that he ends the play on his backside because of blitzes and/or beating the blocking scheme.

At least, that's how it seems to me although there are plenty on the board who know better than I do. We have a young QB, and everyone has decided (correctly) that putting pressure on him is key because he does fairly well when he has time to go through his checks. Instead, he has to rush and it leads to mistakes.

Of course, the flip side is -- if you can consistently hit those quick slants and bubbles, the other side has to stop committing so much to the rush/blitz.

Oh well. Go Duke, beat Navy!

[alteran]

Thoughts?

Yeah-- who are you gonna root for? ;)

(You are a Navy man, right?)

[mkline09]

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert but I would agree a slant is a designed quick step drop after the QB lines up under center. With Renfree in the shotgun or the pistol the main run option (although I know there are more than just one) is a draw. Defenses see this and the linebackers stay home in the middle for the potential draw. That is where the receivers are going and that is where, at least to me some of the interceptions are coming from.
Receivers a bit gun shy about going across the middle where linebackers are waiting. And the backers or even the corner know Duke likes to run the slant so will sit tight on their man in man coverage. Slants are good against zone coverage when you can find the holes.

A drop from under center would at least get the linebackers, except on blitzes, dropping back in coverage a little and opening up the middle for the screens and or slants.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Here's my take on the situation:
Coach Cutcliffe is going to fit the system to the strengths of the players, not the players to the system. Thad and Sean are two different QB's, each with his own array of strengths and weaknesses.

Sean has appeared shell shocked since Alabama. He continues to rush himself to get passes off. The result is that his timing and that of the receivers rarely gets into a rhythm and defenders have more opportunities for deflecting, picking off, etc.

Self confidence is one of the most fragile aspects of life. Even the most secure can be subject to losing confidence in themselves. Experience and maturity can help in regaining confidence, but don't guarantee.

[OldPhiKap]

Here's my take on the situation:
Coach Cutcliffe is going to fit the system to the strengths of the players, not the players to the system. Thad and Sean are two different QB's, each with his own array of strengths and weaknesses.

Sean has appeared shell shocked since Alabama. He continues to rush himself to get passes off. The result is that his timing and that of the receivers rarely gets into a rhythm and defenders have more opportunities for deflecting, picking off, etc.

Self confidence is one of the most fragile aspects of life. Even the most secure can be subject to losing confidence in themselves. Experience and maturity can help in regaining confidence, but don't guarantee.

Very well said, DiBD. OPK

[Bob Green]

Yeah-- who are you gonna root for? ;)

(You are a Navy man, right?)

I spent 30 years on active duty as an enlisted Sailor. Annapolis is officer BS. I like seeing future officers put in their place. :cool: Go Duke! Beat Navy!

Seriously, I will pull for Navy against the other 118 FBS schools but this Saturday it is all about Duke.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Very well said, DiBD. OPK

Thank you! I've watched a game or two. Also had the good fortune of being in a flag football class in women's PE back in the golden days on East Campus.

[4decadedukie]

I will attend with another Duke alum (couple) from San Diego, who was also a career senior officer. We try to do this whenever Duke and the USNA play. Our loyalties are undivided, however: Go Duke, Beat Navy!!!!

[Bob Green]

I will attend with another Duke alum (couple) from San Diego, who was also a career senior officer. We try to do this whenever Duke and the USNA play. Our loyalties are undivided, however: Go Duke, Beat Navy!!!!

Of course my negative comments about Officers do not apply to 4decadedukie. :) He knows the Goat Locker likes him.

For the masses, the term "Goat Locker" has nothing to do with Carolina, I'm just talking Navy as we have our own language. 4decadedukie understands me.

[4decadedukie]

I was merely an officer, perhaps a fairly good one. On the other hand -- and he would never "toot his own horn" about this -- Bob was a Master Chief, which is something a great deal more special. The far more critical link, however, is being long-term shipmates in the service to our Navy and its nation.

Every other game, I root for Navy; however, this Saturday -- and every day, for that matter -- I am a Dukie first.

[Bob Green]

Here is every Duke fan's favorite author on Navy's defense:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/25/AR2010102502095.html

[Bob Green]

More on Navy, from the Washington Post, this article is about the offensive line:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/27/AR2010102705603.html

Navy is flying high after their 35-17 win over Notre Dame, hopefully, Duke can ground the Midshipmen.

[CameronBornAndBred]

More on Navy, from the Washington Post, this article is about the offensive line:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/27/AR2010102705603.html

Navy is flying high after their 35-17 win over Notre Dame, hopefully, Duke can ground the Midshipmen.
I hope so too...but I'm not looking forward to the outcome. (And I'm a Duke football optimist to the extreme!) I think both GT and Navy are gonna squash us, I think we can beat both BC and UVA; the heels I'm reserving judgement on until I see what they look like game week. So assuming that we are going to get beat by Navy, what I really want to see is some confidence back in this team, and some progress. They need some good things to happen to start building on for the spring practices. Let's see the offense once again move the ball, let's see Renfree once again play well and make smart choices. Let's see some points put up on the board and the game still be a game in the second half.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Psssst! Here's a little secret. Duke has learned to defend the option (run) offense pretty well in the last couple of years. Just sayin'...

[77devil]

I hope so too...but I'm not looking forward to the outcome. (And I'm a Duke football optimist to the extreme!) I think both GT and Navy are gonna squash us.

I was relatively optimistic before the season when I purchased tickets for the Navy game. Now, not so much. If Duke plays the way it has been, I'm afraid the game will be over at halftime.

I suppose boozing heavily at the tailgate is an option and Annapolis is a lovely town. C'mon Devils, make me wrong.

[Bob Green]

Here is another opportunity to skew a poll:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/mids-insider/2010/10/poll_time_who_wins_the_navy-du.html

Come on DBR, let's show the football team some love!

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Here is another opportunity to skew a poll:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/mids-insider/2010/10/poll_time_who_wins_the_navy-du.html

Come on DBR, let's show the football team some love!

Having multiple options for voting somewhat dilutes the effects of our voting..... unless we use one browser for Duke wins with close score and another browser for Duke wins in a blow out. My vote in each category raised each result by 2%. Only 41 had voted.... and I was two of those!

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

One of our football players posted this video online. He's going to play to win!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqdJsyvkybs

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I'm afraid the game will be over at halftime.
Nah, Navy will hang in there for about 3 quarter and then get blown out. :cool:

[Bob Green]

Having multiple options for voting somewhat dilutes the effects of our voting.....

I have voted three times. Once a work and at home on two different browsers. I went with "Duke but it's close" all three times.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I have voted three times. Once a work and at home on two different browsers. I went with "Duke but it's close" all three times.
Good! Vote early and often. Vote for all choices for Duke as often as possible.

Watch out Navy! We're for Duke and we're voting!

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Fewer than 70 ballots have been cast. Time to vote!

[CameronBornAndBred]

Fewer than 70 ballots have been cast. Time to vote!
I'm abstaining...I want to see the Blue Devils do it on the field. Rip 'em up tear 'em up give 'em hell Duke!!

[Bob Green]

I'm basically just posting to bump this game thread back to the top.

Taking a look at Jeff Sagarin's ratings:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt10.htm

Using the "Predictor" section, Navy is #50 while Duke is #115. Vegas currently has Duke as a 13.5 point underdog with the over/under set at 55.5:

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-football/teams/team-page.cfm/team/duke

I'll go out on a limb and predict Duke wins 34-27 as Sean Renfree and the wide receivers break out of their funk and air out the ball over the Midshipmen.

[davekay1971]

This is the week Duke puts it together! We've been seeing the defense improve gradually, but the offense and Renfree have regressed. The defense takes another step forward, while Renfree and his crew of (as Mark Packer would say) frisbee-catching dogs find their game.

No predictions on a score, just on a Duke win! Go Duke!

[4decadedukie]

Departing for Annapolis in <3 hours, dressed in more Duke regalia than a mannequin at the Duck Shop (exception is my USS Nimitz ball-cap, but with a Love Duke button in the middle). I truly hope we win today, for all the obvious and important reasons (but, personally, also because this is the Naval Academy's homecoming game, I will have more Navy alum friends there than Dukies, so I am certain to take a copious amounts of "stuff" if we soundly defeated).

[pbc2]

I'm with Ozzie. Duke has seen a lot of option and really neutralized the Army option defensively earlier this year. The turnovers and the two breakdowns that led to big pass plays are what killed us. I expect big days for Daniels, Brown, and Kromah defensively. If we don't turn the ball over and execute offensively, we can win this game. Giving an option offense a short field or extra possessions will put us in a hole.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Departing for Annapolis in <3 hours, dressed in more Duke regalia than a mannequin at the Duck Shop (exception is my USS Nimitz ball-cap, but with a Love Duke button in the middle). I truly hope we win today, for all the obvious and important reasons (but, personally, also because this is the Naval Academy's homecoming game, I will have more Navy alum friends there than Dukies, so I am certain to take a copious amounts of "stuff" if we soundly defeated).
Wish I could be there. To you and anyone else going, cheer loud and long. It's great to see smacks of blue in the stands at away games. I'll be yelling into my computer monitor in Section 21.

[sagegrouse]

Departing for Annapolis in <3 hours, dressed in more Duke regalia than a mannequin at the Duck Shop (exception is my USS Nimitz ball-cap, but with a Love Duke button in the middle). I truly hope we win today, for all the obvious and important reasons (but, personally, also because this is the Naval Academy's homecoming game, I will have more Navy alum friends there than Dukies, so I am certain to take a copious amounts of "stuff" if we soundly defeated).

I will be wearing my Duke blue Final Four cap and will be on the lookout for other posters.

sagegrouse

[mkline09]

Nice to see Duke coming out strong. Hope they can keep it up.

[DukeSean]

these 3rd down conversions and that 4th down touchdown run have been really key

[mkline09]

these 3rd down conversions and that 4th down touchdown run have been really key

going for the TD on fourth and goal was very key. Can't just settle for fieldgoals and as I say that Connette just scores a touchdown. Duke 17 Navy 0

[DukeSean]

going for the TD on fourth and goal was very key. Can't just settle for fieldgoals and as I say that Connette just scores a touchdown. Duke 17 Navy 0

Agreed. When you get down that far, you want to put the hurt on rather than let Navy have a moral victory by settling for FG.

[peloton]

Lots of time left in this game but listening to Bob and Co. on the radio, it sounds like Duke is really playing well (especially the defense.) Navy has very little yardage on the ground and if they can't run effectively and we can maintain the lead, they're in big trouble. But, the Devils need to keep the pressure on; hopefully Cut and the assistant coaches won't get very conservative all of a sudden in regard to offensive plays. Go Devils!! Take it to 'em!

[DU82]

This is the offense we expected to see since Elon! Need to keep it up in the second half, though. (It would be nice to tack on another seven before the break.)

[gep]

Sean threw 16 for 16 before an incomplete... then a 14 yard pass, then a 12 yard run for TD.... LOOKING GOOD!!!!!

[mkline09]

Wow. Amazing. The offense comes alive at last. And the defense is playing solid against a very difficult scheme. Hope they keep this up for the rest of this game and beyond. Renfree doing very well and the are running the ball well enough. Very encouraging.

[billyj]

I can't believe what I am seeing right now! This is bliss! :D

[gep]

found the audio...

http://www.1010wspc.com/wzky.htm

click on "live streaming audio"

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Psssst! Here's a little secret. Duke has learned to defend the option (run) offense pretty well in the last couple of years. Just sayin'...
Hmmmmm. I just knew I'd seen this written somewhere on the web.... :cool:

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I can't believe what I am seeing right now! This is bliss! :D
This is the team we, or at least I and Coach Cutcliffe, expected to see starting with the Wake Forest game! Better late than never!

Now let's go play us a second half of football and win us a football game!

[OldPhiKap]

Nice balance on both sides of the ball. Finish strong!!!!

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

There are still some prime seats available on the bandwagon..... if you don't mind sitting with some of us veterans!

[Bob Green]

found the audio...

http://www.1010wspc.com/wzky.htm

click on "live streaming audio"

You can watch here:

http://www.navysports.com/allaccess/index.html?media=194732

[OldPhiKap]

There are still some prime seats available on the bandwagon..... if you don't mind sitting with some of us veterans!

No doubt. Better late than never.

AND, the heels are losing to William and Mary at the half!

[OldPhiKap]

You can watch here:

http://www.navysports.com/allaccess/index.html?media=194732

Thanks, Bob!

[gep]

AND, the heels are losing to William and Mary at the half!

W&M 17 unc 7. and the guy on the radio said that QB Michael Paulus (W&M) is Greg's brother? Doesn't Greg also have a QB brother at unc too?

[loran16]

W&M 17 unc 7. and the guy on the radio said that QB Michael Paulus (W&M) is Greg's brother? Doesn't Greg also have a QB brother at unc too?

Same guy. Mike transferred to 1-AA William and Mary.

[MChambers]

W&M 17 unc 7. and the guy on the radio said that QB Michael Paulus (W&M) is Greg's brother? Doesn't Greg also have a QB brother at unc too?
Think they are one and the same. Didn't Mike transfer from UNC?

[CBDUKE]

I think he is the brother that was at UNC. He transferred, although I could be wrong about that.

[gep]

THANKS guys!!! I don't really keep up with unc football... just concentrate on Duke guys... like Greg and family :cool:

[gep]

first half... Desmond Scott has 39 yards rushing.... Navy has 41 yards rushing total team... not bad Duke defense against this Navy option team

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Bob says something's amiss with the equipment upstairs, might mean no more reviews are possible for this game.

[DukeDude]

What's this? Duke playing offense and defense in the same game? Better late than never.

Renfree is 18/19 passing with 2 rushing TDs.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Duke's first punt of the game

[OldPhiKap]

Shake off that last drive by Navy -- keep the pressure on, Sean!

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Offense is moving pretty well, especially in the passing game. A lot of guys are having great games.... on the same day!

[OldPhiKap]

Shake off that last drive by Navy -- keep the pressure on, Sean!

Like I said.

[DukeSean]

wow great move by Vernon to get that TD!

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

wow great move by Vernon to get that TD!

Conner Vernon is a gifted player. Look at his stats and look at his standing in the conference.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Our linebackers are playing a good game today..... lots of good reps which will help next Saturday against that ungentlemanly UVA team.

[duke09hms]

We've neutralized their run game but are getting victimized by the pass. Navy scores 2 TDs on drives of 2 and 1 minutes. Let's keep up the pressure guys!!

[OldPhiKap]

OK -- let's eat some clock and get another score!

[peloton]

C'mon Duke - hang tough...this is your game to win or lose. We need to keep the pressure on - the Midshipmen picked up some momentum in the 3rd quarter unfortunately. We need at least a field goal and hopefully a TD on this drive. Let's go Duke!

[peloton]

Sean, this is your team...show us what we all know you're capable of! Yes! Here I am typing this mid message and we get another critical 1st down after a bobble or two - yes!

[OldPhiKap]

Good by the hair of our chinny chin chins!

Now, four and out for the D!!!

[arnie]

Sean, this is your team...show us what we all know you're capable of! Yes! Here I am typing this mid message and we get another critical 1st down after a bobble or two - yes!

That should do it - off the goal post - bring on the cavs.

[duke09hms]

Defense looking vulnerable in the late 2nd half - 3 TD drives (last two 2-pt plays converted) covering 2, 1, and 2 minutes respectively.

Pass defense getting carved up by Navy long completions.

[OldPhiKap]

Get the onside and put it away!

[duke09hms]

The team seems to have collectively lost focus, especially the defense. From 31-7 late in the 3rd to 34-31 with 2:40 left, with each of their drives taking 2 minutes or less. This one's gonna be a nail-biter finish . . .

[91devil]

Duke Football = Torture

[arnie]

Duke Football = Torture

And this coaching staff is well paid??

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Duke 34 Navy 31 W

[OldPhiKap]

Good road win. The secondary has some film to watch. But other than that, who can complain about us winning this game?

Congratulations to the team, let's get another one next week!

[DevilWearsPrada]

What a game!!!! 34 31

[davekay1971]

Uh...phew. Young team, road game against a good team...I guess that kind of 4th quarter let-down is not shocking.

Still, a win is a win. Gain confidence from the first 3 quarters and the final result, learn from the 4th quarter, and move on. Time for our 1st ACC win of the season.

[DevilWearsPrada]

And this coaching staff is well paid??

Coach Cut could have left in Jan for Tenn, and made alot more money. Coach Cut and staff earn their salaries.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Game was never in doubt... :rolleyes::cool::D

[Newton_14]

WOOOOO HOOOOOOO!!!

Welcome back Sean Renfree!!!!!! Congrats to the team for gutting out a tough victory. Losing this game after being up so big would have taken our guys hearts apart. Instead, it can now be used as a building block to get the team moving back in the right direction.

Cut has been stressing for some time now on his daily Duke Football Report that the team is very close to being competitive again and winning games and they were seeing good progress in practice, but needed to carry that into games. Today they finally did that. Kudos to Navy for having the resolve to hang in there and come back, but our guys finally got the stop they needed.

I now need a nerve pill or something though as those last 5 minutes were stress to the max!

Go Duke!!!

[buddy]

Hurray. Any victory is a good victory. And we must be better than Notre Dame.

Still, our defense is not good enough for the offense to try to sit on a lead. We almost played ourselves out of a victory by going so conservative at the end. When your quarterback is 28 for 30 passing, why not keep doing what has been working? I'll take it, but we made it far closer than it should have been. Let's hope we can play as well offensively next week, and that the defense can tighten up. We still have a chance for respectability this year.