How do we get the upper crusties involved in cameron

[B-well]

The Crazies chant of "Stand Up" is not very well received and is kind of a put-down of a lot of very loyal Duke fans.

We need for the "upper crust" to become more animated and involved, but every attempt by the Crazies to do that over the past many years has failed.

It is important that these folks develop some sort of cheering persona since they are the fans who provide our on-site fan base during the post-season tournaments.

In many other college arenas (other than the dean dome), the "upper crust" crowd has developed some traditional cheers that they can remember from game-to-game.

One of the PAC-10 schools used to do some really good stuff with calling out a players name after a basket or great play.

Time for some creative thinking.

[monkey]

The Crazies chant of "Stand Up" is not very well received and is kind of a put-down of a lot of very loyal Duke fans.

We need for the "upper crust" to become more animated and involved, but every attempt by the Crazies to do that over the past many years has failed.

It is important that these folks develop some sort of cheering persona since they are the fans who provide our on-site fan base during the post-season tournaments.

In many other college arenas (other than the dean dome), the "upper crust" crowd has developed some traditional cheers that they can remember from game-to-game.

One of the PAC-10 schools used to do some really good stuff with calling out a players name after a basket or great play.

Time for some creative thinking.

No disrespect, but is this really a big problem? Assuming the students are doing their thing, Cameron is one the loudest arenas in the country. I also disagree with the statement that the folks in the upper level of Cameron constitute the on-site fan base during the post-season. Maybe for the ACC tournement. (wouldn't know, haven't been) The NCAA tourney gets a much broader fan base from the games I've been to. The cheers used in such games have been pretty simple (Let's Go Duke - which as others have pointed out, would be much better if not said at 100 miles per hour - Let's Go Devils, D-U-K-E, etc.) And the support, to my eyes and ears, at such games has been pretty good. I don't think there's going to be a Duke equivalent of Rock Chalk Jayhawk anytime soon, but nor do I think there needs to be.

[Troublemaker]

Agree that it's not really a problem. Respect the age difference. Standing and cheering wildly is great for the 19-yr-old student but probably isn't great for some of the folks upstairs.

Besides, Duke's players and coaches being great has a LOT to do with the great home record. We probably tend to overrate the impact that the Crazies have (but they do provide a fun and exciting atmosphere).

[CameronBornAndBred]

The crusties stand and cheer far more often and louder than the folks sitting down low on the players' side of the court. (Excluding the grad students and opposing team's fans). I miss the days when it was all students down there, it can be depressing to look at that crowd and wonder how those people can be so close to the action and not get excited. As for the upstairs bunch, that's where I've seen 99% of my games from. They don't cheer as often as the students, but they cheer loudly lots and do plenty of standing up. During really good games it can be a great workout session.

[uh_no]

We probably tend to overrate the impact that the Crazies have (but they do provide a fun and exciting atmosphere).

yeah, tell that to coach K.....and he'll tell you how important they are to Duke's success at home over the past 25 years......if K didn't feel 100% that those students are one of the key reasons to our success at home, why doesn't he sell them to paying public? those seats would be worth 10k being courtside like that....you think K turns down that kind of money for 'a fun and exciting atmosphere'??? NO....if you've ever been to one of coach K's pre UNC talks to the crazies, you'd know how much he values them

now, if you're saying coach k is wrong and he overvalues the crazies? okay...

[CEF1959]

We students thought this was an issue 30+ years ago too. It wasn't and isn't. I've come around to the idea that you have to respect the different ways people want to show support (or disapproval) during a game. It changes over a lifetime for most. Remember: many of the people you call "upper crust" were once bouncing around nonstop in the student section when they were students. Now they pay for each and every ticket and may not want to stand nonstop anymore. They've graduated in more ways than one.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

We students thought this was an issue 30+ years ago too. It wasn't and isn't. I've come around to the idea that you have to respect the different ways people want to show support (or disapproval) during a game. It changes over a lifetime for most. Remember: many of the people you call "upper crust" were once bouncing around nonstop in the student section when they were students. Now they pay for each and every ticket and may not want to stand nonstop anymore. They've graduated in more ways than one.
You are so right! There are older people (older than me) in my section who now navigate the stadium steps slowly and with great care.

We should applaud those who continue to be so faithful and loyal throughout their lives, not try to tell them how to show their love of Duke.

[Troublemaker]

yeah, tell that to coach K.....and he'll tell you how important they are to Duke's success at home over the past 25 years......if K didn't feel 100% that those students are one of the key reasons to our success at home, why doesn't he sell them to paying public? those seats would be worth 10k being courtside like that....you think K turns down that kind of money for 'a fun and exciting atmosphere'??? NO....if you've ever been to one of coach K's pre UNC talks to the crazies, you'd know how much he values them

now, if you're saying coach k is wrong and he overvalues the crazies? okay...

Well, I'm not saying the Crazies have literally zero impact on games and obviously Coach K would try to exert any advantage he can find, however minimal. (And I figure a fun and exciting game atmosphere helps with recruiting, too, no?). But obviously the players and coaches who bust their butts every day deserve way, WAY more credit for the home record.

It's difficult to continue this argument without some objective measures, though. With the statistical revolution that basketball is experiencing, someday soon an analyst like Pomeroy will provide a more definitive study across many years on where Cameron ranks in homecourt advantage. I'll be interested in seeing that. (I do know 2010 was an especially good year for Cameron.) Even then, if someone can extract the particular advantage that the overall Cameron environment provides (should not be tough to do statistically), it'll be tougher to extract the particular advantage that the Crazies themselves (a subset of the "overall Cameron") provide. I tend to think, for example, that Duke's program has had lots of great shooters that find it advantageous to shoot in a cozy gym with soft rims, and that has nothing or little to do with the crowd.

I'm not passionate about this argument, btw. I can be swayed. My original intent in this thread was just to support the folks upstairs in Cameron. Let them be.

[MulletMan]

The Crazies chant of "Stand Up" is not very well received and is kind of a put-down of a lot of very loyal Duke fans.

We need for the "upper crust" to become more animated and involved, but every attempt by the Crazies to do that over the past many years has failed.

It is important that these folks develop some sort of cheering persona since they are the fans who provide our on-site fan base during the post-season tournaments.

In many other college arenas (other than the dean dome), the "upper crust" crowd has developed some traditional cheers that they can remember from game-to-game.

One of the PAC-10 schools used to do some really good stuff with calling out a players name after a basket or great play.

Time for some creative thinking.

Look... I hear what you're saying, I do. But the simple fact is that the Crazies have a job to do, and they do it well. The "above the rail" crowd isn't supposed to be standing the whole game and going bat-sh*@ crazy. We did the whole egging on of the upstairs in my time as well. Here's the thing... standing for 3 hours and jumping around is tough. It gets exponentially tougher the older you get. Trust me, as I'm speaking from experience.

Here's the other thing... the "Stand up" thing works, but only when timed well. The folks upstairs aren't going to stand and cheer at every game. They're not going to bounce around when Duke is up 5 against Clemson. They've seen that movie before, and they know how it ends. However, if we're down one against UNC with a minute to go and we're coming out of a TV timeout, and you ask, they'll get up. Really, they will.

Its all about timing... kind of like the "Our House" chant.

Trust me, I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. And I had lots of success getting the upstairs up at critical moments.

[hurleyfor3]

In many other college arenas (other than the dean dome), the "upper crust" crowd has developed some traditional cheers that they can remember from game-to-game.

You're talking about a demographic that has trouble remembering to flush. And they're now supposed to remember what to cheer and when to cheer it?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

The crusties
I've been called a lot of things over the years, but I've never been called a crustie before! http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/24.gifhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/24.gifhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/24.gifhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/24.gif

And neither you nor I have to defend our enthusiasm at games...

[dukebballcamper90-91]

the upper crust is funny, i don't care who you are.

I think all chants need revamping. The our house chant is played out. I have to admit, I took my wife to a game in CIS against a good Clemson team and we saw Duke @ WFU. She said the game in winston was a lot better than the game in CIS. I was offended but oh well.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

You're talking about a demographic that has trouble remembering to flush. And they're now supposed to remember what to cheer and when to cheer it?
Many things people post are humorous and/or clever. This comment is neither.

[lpd1982]

I was in the upper stands last week and found myself feeling that I was irritating my seat neighbors when I joined the Crazies in cheers. No one, and I mean no one, picks up the cheers with you. I kept up my part, but it was a lonely endeavor.

As far as whether the Crazies make a difference, they sure do to recruits. Every recruit or committed player mentions the Crazies and their intensity. Whether it used to be better, whether it used to be more clever, is irrelevent to those who are coming for the first few times. The team feels the Crazies have their back and the recruits think it would be cool to be part of that.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I was in the upper stands last week and found myself feeling that I was irritating my seat neighbors when I joined the Crazies in cheers. No one, and I mean no one, picks up the cheers with you. I kept up my part, but it was a lonely endeavor.

I still bet you had a fun doing it, even though it was a solo act...and that's all that matters. I wasn't fast enough with my camera..if I was this would have been a picture of Ozzie waving his arms over his head instead of just clapping. (At CTC)

1626

[91_92_01_10_15]

If you guys want to get the crowd above the rail involved, a good idea would be to revive the old "Let's Go Duke" cheer. Back in the 80's (maybe 90's?), this cheer began to take on it's gradually increasing, self-terminating tempo. Before that, the cheer maintained a steady tempo, and often endured for minutes rather than seconds. It was quite loud and intimidating, too, IMO.

Incidentally, I noticed a few years ago that a few of the students tried to revive the old "We're going to get you" cheer with the finger wave and everything. It didn't catch on, but in its day, it was bone-chilling when everyone in the building was doing it.

Keep in mind, though, that memories of those cheers are childhood memories for me from the 70's and 80's, when it was all new, and a basketball game in Cameron was the most amazing thing I had ever seen, so my perspective may be a bit skewed.

Maybe someone who's been going to games a bit longer than me could can confirm/refute my recollections.

BTW, though Cameron games are no longer at the top of my "amazing things" list, they ain't far from it. ;-)

[CameronBornAndBred]

Keep in mind, though, that memories of those cheers are childhood memories for me from the 70's and 80's, when it was all new, and a basketball game in Cameron was the most amazing thing I had ever seen, so my perspective may be a bit skewed.

That's me as well...but I see the past a bit differently. Back then, the games were great, and I looked forward to each and every one..but I took them for granted. They were in a way just another fun night out with my family. Now...I relish the memories I still have from back then and soak in every second I'm fortunate enough to go back. The 70's and 80's (especially pre "Uncle Terry's Letter") were my favorite times..if I could go into Cameron now and see the other team actually sitting on their bench during timeouts, with the yellow shirts of BOG screaming in their ears, I would be in Heaven. It was a different world back then. The upstairs was just as active or inactive as it is now...it's a matter of perspective. Wish I had a time machine.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

The 70's and 80's (especially pre "Uncle Terry's Letter") were my favorite times..if I could go into Cameron now and see the other team actually sitting on their bench during timeouts, with the yellow shirts of BOG screaming in their ears, I would be in Heaven. It was a different world back then. The upstairs was just as active or inactive as it is now...it's a matter of perspective. Wish I had a time machine.
In the mid 70's, those weren't BOGgers, we were Phi Psi's, and the shirts were Hunter Green :cool: We sat in the 4th row, right behind the buffer zone/JV football team...

[CameronBornAndBred]

In the mid 70's, those weren't BOGgers, we were Phi Psi's, and the shirts were Hunter Green :cool: We sat in the 4th row, right behind the buffer zone/JV football team...
I was color blind and illiterate back then. ;)

[uh_no]

I
Incidentally, I noticed a few years ago that a few of the students tried to revive the old "We're going to get you" cheer with the finger wave and everything. It didn't catch on, but in its day, it was bone-chilling when everyone in the building was doing it.


tried to do it before the UNC game 2 years ago, but there was never a good gap in between when announcements and ads are flying and when the band or videos are playing.....unfortunately....the plan last year was to link arms, which the team did before every game as a sign that there was no weak link in the chain (which is why they did it on stage after winning the title) and K told the students (without telling the players that he told the students) that he wanted all the crazies to link arms when the team came out....can you imagine how that would have looked to the players, who were just linking arms in a moment of almost meditation to come out and see the entire student section with arms linked would have been an incredibly motivating moment....

unfortunately...this was the carolina game....so there was not enough room to link arms

[elvis14]

...The folks upstairs aren't going to stand and cheer at every game. They're not going to bounce around when Duke is up 5 against Clemson. They've seen that movie before, and they know how it ends....

I love watching games in CIS but I find that statement just kinda depressing. It may be true but I don't like the sentiment.


I was in the upper stands last week and found myself feeling that I was irritating my seat neighbors when I joined the Crazies in cheers. No one, and I mean no one, picks up the cheers with you. I kept up my part, but it was a lonely endeavor.

I remember the first time I went a game at CIS. It was right after I moved here in 1991 and I had seats just above the crazies. The team was unreal and we were blowing out the other team and the folks around me were pretty quiet...the crazies were crazy and fun. But it felt like I was watching the crowd vs being a part of it. Most of the time when I get to go to games it's with a friend who has seats all the way on the back row. He will participate sometimes and I'm really glad because it means I'm not alone in my exuberance.

Note, I don't think theres 'a problem' but I do think it would be cool if the non-crazies were either more involved with the cheers or had a few standard things they do just for fun. I like fun.

[B-well]

JUST WHAT DO THE "UPPER CRUSTIES" DO?

-FILL THE SEATS IN THE UPPER LEVEL FOR EVERY GAME - mostly
-STAND (if able) WHEN THE TEAM COMES ONTO THE FLOOR - very often
-STAND (if able) FOR THE NATIONAL ANTHEM - always
-SING ALONG (if able) ON THE NATIONAL ANTHEM - sometimes
-STAND AND CLAP WHEN THE TEAM IS INTRODUCED - mostly
-LINK ARMS WHEN THE TEAM IS INTRODUCED - are you kidding?
-BOUNCE UP AND DOWN FOR THE TIPOFF - do what?
-YELL "LET'S GO DUKE" - when it is slow and doesn't involve hand motions
-SWEAR UNDER THEIR BREATH ON MISSED FREE THROWS - mostly
-SAY "ZOUB" WHEN HE MAKES A GREAT PLAY - isn't he gone?
-ENJOY WATHING THE CRAZIES - nearly all
-ASK EACH OTHER WHAT THE CRAZIES ARE SAYING - all the time
-JOIN IN THE CRAZIES CHEERS - see previous item
-STAND UP WHEN THE CRAZIES SAY STAND UP - sometimes
-JUMP TO THEIR FEET AFTER A GREAT PLAY - jump? rise,maybe
-CLAP WHEN DUKE MAKES A GREAT PLAY - most
-STEP UP THE NOISE WHEN COACH K WAVES HIS ARMS - isn't that for the Crazies?
-STAND WHEN THE BALL IS IN PLAY - risky unless you are on the back row
-STICK AROUND FOR THE BAND TO PLAY THE ALMA MATER - leave with the players
-LEAVE EARLY TO BE FIRST OUT OF THE PARKING LOT - a bunch
-SELL OR GIVE THEIR TICKETS TO CAROLINA, WAKE AND TERP FANS - too many

-LOVE DUKE - you better believe it

[4decadedukie]

We students thought this was an issue 30+ years ago too. It wasn't and isn't. I've come around to the idea that you have to respect the different ways people want to show support (or disapproval) during a game. It changes over a lifetime for most. Remember: many of the people you call "upper crust" were once bouncing around nonstop in the student section when they were students. Now they pay for each and every ticket and may not want to stand nonstop anymore. They've graduated in more ways than one.

Wisdom and accuracy.

[4decadedukie]

You're talking about a demographic that has trouble remembering to flush. And they're now supposed to remember what to cheer and when to cheer it?

One astonishing form of arrogance is the belief that -- somehow -- we are not all trains on the same track, merely at differing stations.
:rolleyes:

[CameronBornAndBred]

-ASK EACH OTHER WHAT THE CRAZIES ARE SAYING - all the time
-JOIN IN THE CRAZIES CHEERS - see previous item

That's perfect! Nobody every said Cameron had great acoustics. It was easier back when the whole court was surrounded by the Crazies, but now that they occupy every side except for behind the benches (which is the side I face if I'm lucky enough to be there) it's much harder to hear what they are chanting. That combined with the fact that my ears ain't what they used to be.

[SuperTurkey]

JUST WHAT DO THE "UPPER CRUSTIES" DO?

Yes, when a thread you've started has petered out, the best bet is probably to reply in that thread with ALL CAPS. :confused:

[CameronBornAndBred]

You're talking about a demographic that has trouble remembering to flush. And they're now supposed to remember what to cheer and when to cheer it?
The more I see this comment the more I hate it. That's my dad you are talking about. The guy who is the sole reason I'm a die hard Duke fan. I'm not an alumni, but I was priveledged enough to be upstairs as a kid because he had tickets, I was priveledged to be there as a teen because he had tickets, and I've been priveledged to be there now in my 40's because he had tickets. He had season tix in his 20's, he has them now in his 70's. That's 50 years in Cameron..longer than I've been alive.
Did he jump up and down on his own? Hell yeah. Did he shout louder than anyone around him? Hell yeah. Did he lean over to me and educate me on who was doing what and why? Hell yeah. Did he join in the chants and cheers from the students? Hell no. I've never once seen him join in. (I'm sure he did when he was a student.) But he is the most knowledgable person about Duke basketball and Duke football and most other Duke sports that you could ever meet; chances are if it was a classic game in either sport he was there.
I have a hard time believing the other mods have left this comment sit there so long, you've managed to insult a great number of people that have made Cameron the experience what it is today. Next time you are upstairs in line waiting for one of them to "remember to flush", why don't you ask them about some of their memories from Cameron in games past. Bring a notepad and a pencil, and go home with a great education.

[anon]

I'm not an alumni, but I was priveledged

I believe you.

More seriously, the line was a joke. Can't you just laugh at it or ignore it?

[4decadedukie]

That's perfect! Nobody every said Cameron had great acoustics. It was easier back when the whole court was surrounded by the Crazies, but now that they occupy every side except for behind the benches (which is the side I face if I'm lucky enough to be there) it's much harder to hear what they are chanting. That combined with the fact that my ears ain't what they used to be.


ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, CB&B!

I am usually blessed with two tickets for a game or two each season, due to service on several Duke Executive Committees and Boards (we hope this will change when we retire in the Triangle, cash in on decides of Iron Duke membership, spend thousands annually in further donations and ticket fees, and attend EVERY game). No one is more passionate about Duke Basketball than my wife (by comparison, I am passive). We LOVE everything about being in Cameron and cheering our Blue Devils on. However, the upper deck acoustics are poor (especially when combined with the hearing losses that normally accompany six, or more, decades of life). This makes joining in on -- or even understanding -- cheers difficult; additionally, this part of the Cameron experience is principally for the current students.

Here's a real suggestion: It would help if "cheer sheets" were distributed to ALL attendees at ALL games -- particularly including we geriatric Devils in the second deck. That would certainly add to the fun and it might even increase the volume.

An earlier post to this thread, which has been properly disparaged and derided, focused the ages (and the concomitant physical/mental limitations) of the "upper crusties." IMHO, that post was neither humorous nor witty; however, it was unnecessary and insulting. For the benefit of the individual who posted it and others, please let me explain why.

When I am privileged to sit in Cameron’s second deck, I am surrounded with generations of life-committed Dukies. I literally see friends who are not only alumni and/or enduring supporters of the University, but who have also paid their "dues" for many more years than the so-lucky inhabitants of the floor-level seats have lived. This "dues paying" certainly includes continuous financial contributions -- many major -- to Duke, but it also incorporates countless hours sacrificed over several decades (and for talented, accomplished, busy individuals, these “discretionary hours” are much more precious than money), all devoted to Duke in leadership, mentoring and volunteer roles.

Within eye-shot when I sit in the "Crusties' enclave," I see the deans, faculty, staff and administrators, whose life-blood made Duke the top-ten university it is today. I also see local residents who never attended or worked at Duke, but whose loyalty, commitment and generosity are equal to any individual's. Additionally, I see alumni and supporters who are unbelievably excited to attend even a single game in Cameron, probably only having the opportunity to do so every few years (often flying cross-continent to attend, which is somewhat more effort than walking over from a West Campus dorm). Finally, I see many Dukies whose love for, devotion to, contributions to, and service to Duke University are models for all of us to emulate.

Therefore, before one mindlessly criticizes or satirizes "the crusties," perhaps one should take a moment to reflect on those he is critiquing and what they have -- through real sacrifice -- provided to this University we all love.

[davekay1971]

You're talking about a demographic that has trouble remembering to flush. And they're now supposed to remember what to cheer and when to cheer it?

The above-the-rail section is filled with 11 year old boys?! I had no idea...

[Lid]

I was in the upper stands last week and found myself feeling that I was irritating my seat neighbors when I joined the Crazies in cheers.
I've been lucky enough to go to a few games over the last couple of years, and this is exactly how I felt for most of them. I fully appreciate (in both senses) the posts in this thread describing the commitment the upper-deck folks have to Duke, and I certainly support everyone cheering in whatever way they're inclined/able -- I just wish I didn't feel like I was impinging on others' enjoyment by clapping, screaming and cheering. To be honest, the seats we sometimes get are in the middle of a section predominantly populated by youngish-to-middle-aged folks, so I'm not sure why they stare at me when I cheer. Perhaps I typically have something stuck in my teeth. :)

[-jk]

ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, CB&B!

I am usually blessed with two tickets for a game or two each season, due to service on several Duke Executive Committees and Boards (we hope this will change when we retire in the Triangle, cash in on decides of Iron Duke membership, spend thousands annually in further donations and ticket fees, and attend EVERY game). No one is more passionate about Duke Basketball than my wife (by comparison, I am passive). We LOVE everything about being in Cameron and cheering our Blue Devils on. However, the upper deck acoustics are poor (especially when combined with the hearing losses that normally accompany six, or more, decades of life). This makes joining in on -- or even understanding -- cheers difficult; additionally, this part of the Cameron experience is principally for the current students.

Here's a real suggestion: It would help if "cheer sheets" were distributed to ALL attendees at ALL games -- particularly including we geriatric Devils in the second deck. That would certainly add to the fun and it might even increase the volume.

An earlier post to this thread, which has been properly disparaged and derided, focused the ages (and the concomitant physical/mental limitations) of the "upper crusties." IMHO, that post was neither humorous nor witty; however, it was unnecessary and insulting. For the benefit of the individual who posted it and others, please let me explain why.

When I am privileged to sit in Cameron’s second deck, I am surrounded with generations of life-committed Dukies. I literally see friends who are not only alumni and/or enduring supporters of the University, but who have also paid their "dues" for many more years than the so-lucky inhabitants of the floor-level seats have lived. This "dues paying" certainly includes continuous financial contributions -- many major -- to Duke, but it also incorporates countless hours sacrificed over several decades (and for talented, accomplished, busy individuals, these “discretionary hours” are much more precious than money), all devoted to Duke in leadership, mentoring and volunteer roles.

Within eye-shot when I sit in the "Crusties' enclave," I see the deans, faculty, staff and administrators, whose life-blood made Duke the top-ten university it is today. I also see local residents who never attended or worked at Duke, but whose loyalty, commitment and generosity are equal to any individual's. Additionally, I see alumni and supporters who are unbelievably excited to attend even a single game in Cameron, probably only having the opportunity to do so every few years (often flying cross-continent to attend, which is somewhat more effort than walking over from a West Campus dorm). Finally, I see many Dukies whose love for, devotion to, contributions to, and service to Duke University are models for all of us to emulate.

Therefore, before one mindlessly criticizes or satirizes "the crusties," perhaps one should take a moment to reflect on those he is critiquing and what they have -- through real sacrifice -- provided to this University we all love.

Thanks for the passionate defense of the crusties. I've seen a lot of games from both sides of the rail. The kids have the energy (and the knees) to stand and jump around the whole game.

I could easily stand the whole game, and do when I have the chance (bouncing - not so much anymore; the knees ain't what they used to be). But the people sitting behind me - who've been sitting in their seats since before K started coaching - can't stand for more than a few minutes. My mother also saw games from both sides of the rail, and she made every single home game for more than 40 seasons straight. But later in life she certainly couldn't stand for more than a few minutes at a stretch, and needed help getting up and down the steps in Cameron. (Thanks to all the folks who lent her a hand.) She did cheer, enthusiastically. And occasionally caustically.

I do wish more of us folks upstairs at least attempted to make more noise. Given its poor acoustics, Cameron can be amazingly loud when we have 9000 fans yelling instead of 3000 (many's the tight UNC game where my ears were still ringing at 4 in the morning - thanks Tink).

The students don't make it easy, either. Cheerleaders rarely lead cheers, and haven't much since we lost the guy cheerleaders ages ago. Often, a couple competing cheers will get going - it's hard to pick which one to run with. The clever cheers are almost impossible to decipher before they peter out. A lot of cheers, even the standard ones, don't last long enough to get everyone involved or speed up to the point a stadium just can't carry it. Slow, or even moderate, and steady will get more people involved regardless of where they sit.

I go. I cheer. And I sit most of the time out of courtesy to the folks that can't stand but have been coming to games since before K was born. And I truly I hope to still be going to games when I'm frail, and hope the rest of the folks understand why I'm not as loud as I used to be.

There's room for all Duke fans.

-jk

[4decadedukie]

There's room for all Duke fans.

-jk


I strongly agree, and THANK YOU.

[Mike Corey]

This conversation happens with enough regularity that I'd move for it to be added to The Handbook. (http://www.duke.edu/~bct1/images/DBRHPR7.1asPDF.pdf)

The needling of those who sit above the rail and those who sit below the rail may be a fun conversation to have, but it seems unnecessary provided that the atmosphere at Duke games is up to par. And I don't think any reasonable observer would suggest that it isn't.

Fans cheer differently in different stages in their lives, and when on different stages. So it is in Cameron Indoor. Let them be themselves. Them's enough.

[Devilsfan]

You're post is correct in fact. But Cameron is for the students. The "upper crusties" are also in many cases "the old and crusties", no disrespect intended just an observation. If you get them to stand and cheer you better have the EMS ready. I wish they would merely stand and clap if nothing else. They do help fund the program so I guess they have the right to act like the "whine and chese crowd" down the road. I just don't like it either.

[Son of Jarhead]

Like CB&B, I'm not an alum (though I did work in the DU Stores every summer in HS & College), but have been priveledged to attend games since I was a little kid 4 decades ago up to today. Many family members (incl. both my parents) are alum, & my Mom for one, has been going to games in Cameron every year since she was a Freshmen in 1942! She put in 47 years of work at Duke. At 86, she is one of those that finds the stairs a tough climb, but she never misses a game (except the occassional ticket she gives away to friends or family). She cheers all game, but her voice doesn't carry beyond 3 feet anymore, & she sings along with all the fight songs. Jumping up & down is out of the question, but I doubt you'd find a more loyal & enthusiastic fan anywhere. Six years ago, her Duke doctors told her she would need "Triple A" surgery (abdominal aortic aneurysm). She asked how long her recovery would be & was told at least 3 months, to which she responded "well, we better get it done before August so I'll be up & about by November & won't miss any basketball games." They laughed, but she was serious... & she was at the first game that year!

Now, the upstairs crowd may not be as load or bouncy as the students downstairs, but they do their part. It would help if some of the cheers carried on longer (unlike the quickening to mach 1 "let's go Duke"). I too remember the "where-going-to-get-youuuuuu" cheer fondly. I also liked the continuous [stomp-stomp-clap] that went along with it. I think that chants/cheers that continue at the same rate for longer stretches are easier for us upstairs to catch onto.

Let's Go Duke!

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

As one of the folks who's been sitting upstairs for over thirty years, I appreciate the observations and comments made by CB&B and BuschDevil. Over the years I started out upstairs as a youngster attending with my dad, then downstairs as a student for four years, then back upstairs. I'd like to add another observation about many of the folks upstairs. They go to the football games, too, and have for years.

Loyalty comes in many forms.... showing up for years is certainly an important indicator when it comes to sports.

[weezie]

.... showing up for years is certainly an important indicator when it comes to sports.

Heck, showing up is more than half the battle in life! ;)

I think this thread can now be put to bed.

[Devilsfan]

Yeah, those ARE the guys around me at the FB games. Wonder where ALL the crazies are (there are several) especially in the second half? This is THEIR team! And now we have a spectacular head coach! We have an OFFENSE. Just need to improve on the other side of the ball. Hope they don't wait until we start winning the majority of our games like fair weather front running fans.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

OK, who is going to have the "Cameron Crusties" T-shirts made up, and who besides me wants one? :cool:

[DukeDevilDeb]

You're talking about a demographic that has trouble remembering to flush. And they're now supposed to remember what to cheer and when to cheer it?

I've been an uppercruster (?) for 25 years. I yell my heart out during every game. I'm standing for every song during time outs, but I can't stand the whole time because people behind me couldn't see.

Why do you assume that all people upstairs aren't cheering? Yes, there are some who are really geriatric, some who are by nature phlegmatic, some who got their tickets from Dukies and are cheering for the other team, and some who just don't give a damn. But you know what? They keep coming. They are not going to jump up and down, and they do feel somewhat put down by the cheer "stand up!"

Crazies, we love you, and you are a critical 6th person on the team! Duke wouldn't be Duke without you. But PLEASE make two changes this year that would improve things a lot.

1. Give up the O. It isn't cute; it isn't funny; it has nothing to do with Duke; and Maryland stole is from the Orioles (and if anything were going to convince me to stop... all I'd have to hear is that Maryland did it, and I'd never raise my arms again).

2. Please don't yell "Stand up!" There are more than a few people who simply and honestly cannot do it. Those of us who can will... I promise.

The folks upstairs yell "Go to hell, Carolina!" as loudly as anyone!

Go Devils!

[uh_no]

2. Please don't yell "Stand up!" There are more than a few people who simply and honestly cannot do it. Those of us who can will... I promise.


As a student, I can say it's an incredible experience to see 7000 people upstairs standing up at the call of the crazies.....the arena gets loud, and the energy goes through the roof

I fully respect that some people cannot, or may choose not to stand up, and is it too much to ask that for the good of the team that you can accept that a few times a game the person in front of you might stand up?

yelling stand up is not in criticism of the fans (they are fans like the rest of us....not crusties) upstairs, but simply a call for a few moments of extreme motivation for the team

that said, I have nothing but laud for the guys upstairs, and have found every interaction with them pleasurable....especially the guy who throws the candy....if i stand there with my arms up long enough, he usually tosses one my way.....being above average in height with orangutan length arms doesn't hurt....but anyway

as long as we don't have jim calhoun coming into CIS and calling it a wine and cheese crowd, i'm happy

thanks guys upstairs for your support of the crazies and the team

[DevilWearsPrada]

yeah, tell that to coach K.....and he'll tell you how important they are to Duke's success at home over the past 25 years......if K didn't feel 100% that those students are one of the key reasons to our success at home, why doesn't he sell them to paying public? those seats would be worth 10k being courtside like that....you think K turns down that kind of money for 'a fun and exciting atmosphere'??? NO....if you've ever been to one of coach K's pre UNC talks to the crazies, you'd know how much he values them

now, if you're saying coach k is wrong and he overvalues the crazies? okay...
I have been to those talks, and Coach brings Mickie with him. Coach is very passionate about the Students sitting on the bleachers and using very tasteful cheers. He doesnt like profanity, or the You Suck. Be loud and go slow, so everyone can understand. Plus, after the Coach K talk, there is pizza and soda for everyone!!!!

[4decadedukie]

As one of the folks who's been sitting upstairs for over thirty years, I appreciate the observations and comments made by CB&B and BuschDevil. Over the years I started out upstairs as a youngster attending with my dad, then downstairs as a student for four years, then back upstairs. I'd like to add another observation about many of the folks upstairs. They go to the football games, too, and have for years.

Loyalty comes in many forms.... showing up for years is certainly an important indicator when it comes to sports.

I hope DitBD will not object if I join in her foregoing observation and her appreciation for CB&B's and BushDevil's posts -- and their heritage. I simply and substantially admire the loyalty of their parent's, in the Cameron stories they relate. Only time will tell if most of the "downstairs Crazies" demonstrate that type of steadfastness several decades from now. As an individual who has assisted Duke in fund-raising for many years, it would also be illuminating to see how many of the "downstairs Crazies" not only maintain their ardor and their love for Duke for generations, but also are completed to support the University (within their circumstances) through annual giving.

[PumpkinFunk]

1. Give up the O. It isn't cute; it isn't funny; it has nothing to do with Duke; and Maryland stole is from the Orioles (and if anything were going to convince me to stop... all I'd have to hear is that Maryland did it, and I'd never raise my arms again).

Coach K has put out the message that the "O" during the National Anthem has to stop, along with "You Suck!" when the players are introduced (even though Coach K didn't say it, I personally feel that for Carolina, that is still 100% okay - that's when it used to be used exclusively my freshman year). Don't you worry about it.

In my experience, the "Stand up" cheer, at least in the past 3 years, hasn't usually been used to get the crowd to stand when not necessary, it's been used when the game is getting too close for comfort and we want Cameron to be loud in support. Up 5 against Clemson may seem okay and comfortable to some people, but when we're up 5 to Clemson after being up 15, that's different. "Stand up" is generally used pretty well, and it's not meant to be demeaning, it's meant to get people to be supportive in a critical time.

[91_92_01_10_15]

yelling stand up is not in criticism of the fans (they are fans like the rest of us....not crusties) upstairs, but simply a call for a few moments of extreme motivation for the team


Maybe if you threw a "please" in there. In my experience, folks always respond better to a request than a command.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Coach K has put out the message that the "O" during the National Anthem has to stop, along with "You Suck!" when the players are introduced
Thank goodness! Especially the second part. You Cameron Crazies better pay attention. We Cameraon Crusties will appreciate it! http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/4.gif

[jimsumner]

I've never understand the O. What value does it add? What message does it send, other than "Look at me, aren't I clever?"

[throatybeard]

This conversation happens with enough regularity that I'd move for it to be added to The Handbook. (http://www.duke.edu/~bct1/images/DBRHPR7.1asPDF.pdf)



Yeah, I haven't updated that thing in forever. (Gail Goestenkors should probably be removed, for example). But bemoaning the lameness of the Crusties is a hoary old chestnut I'm surprised I overlooked. It's sort of the inverse of

11K) The damn kids don’t support the team any more. Let me explain how much more effective I would be in those stands despite my varicose veins and my mortgage debt.

As to the topic at hand, this is exactly the sort of thing you think is a huge problem when you're 19, but you cease to care about it when you're 27.

Where can I get a "Cameron Crusty" t-shirt?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Where can I get a "Cameron Crusty" t-shirt?
Throaty, I'm going to have some made up. Should I put you down for an XL?

[Jderf]

I've never understand the O. What value does it add? What message does it send, other than "Look at me, aren't I clever?"

I'll second that. I've heard that it has something to do with Orioles fans, but I honestly have no idea where it comes from or what it brings to anybody's experience of the game. Really, it's just disrespectful. And adding the "you suck" to the player introductions is also pointless. The warm welcome ("Hi Greivis!") given by the crazies should already be intimidating and is obviously sarcastic. Adding the "you suck" just makes it stupid and infantile.

[jimsumner]

I'll second that. I've heard that it has something to do with Orioles fans, but I honestly have no idea where it comes from or what it brings to anybody's experience of the game. Really, it's just disrespectful. And adding the "you suck" to the player introductions is also pointless. The warm welcome ("Hi Greivis!") given by the crazies should already be intimidating and is obviously sarcastic. Adding the "you suck" just makes it stupid and infantile.

"O" makes some sense for the Orioles. After all, they are called the "O's" for short. But neither Duke Blue Devils nor Maryland Terrapins has a single O to be found.

Just baffling.

[BlueDster]

The warm welcome ("Hi Greivis!") given by the crazies should already be intimidating and is obviously sarcastic. Adding the "you suck" just makes it stupid and infantile.

Though I don't know when the "you suck" started, I can say how it has evolved as a 2010 graduate. My freshman through junior years, we only added the "you suck" during the UNC games. I thought this was appropriate as it was as if we were saying that we couldn't even sarcastically greet UNC players warmly. All of a sudden last year people started saying it at every game. My friends and I were surprised and appalled by this and tried to stop those around us from doing it, but to no avail. Hopefully the email from Coach K will squash this "tradition" before it becomes too deeply ingrained.

[devil84]

Originally Posted by uh_no yelling stand up is not in criticism of the fans (they are fans like the rest of us....not crusties) upstairs, but simply a call for a few moments of extreme motivation for the team


Maybe if you threw a "please" in there. In my experience, folks always respond better to a request than a command.

Or perhaps, the Crazies might try cheering "Join Us" and appeal to our desires to be a Crazie again (or for the first time, if they've never had the ability to cheer from the bleachers). Some fans actually think it might be inappropriate or offensive to the Crazies to have the audacity to consider ourselves on a par with the most excellent Crazies.

Some of the upstairs crowd has grandchilden that are the Crazies' age or older, and standing for even a few minutes of time isn't feasible. We all would do well to remember that they've had season tickets for 35+ years, they may have given enough to fund upgrades like the air conditioning in Cameron all by themselves (and maybe a whole lot more). They deserve to sit. Believe me, they'd LOVE to get up and cheer, but their bodies just won't cooperate. Of the many that I've talked to, they don't mind if the people around them stand and cheer to get the team fired up -- they love the electricity. It's what makes Cameron special.

Most of the rest of us don't have physical limitations. Sure, we're tired after a day of work and prioritizing responsibilities so we can get to the game, but we look forward to it. Some of us cheer our hearts out for the whole game and are viewed in our section as the translator of whatever the Crazies are cheering (aka, "that nutcase that is always cheering"). Most fans, though, view their roles as one of a spectator that cheers for good plays. And here's the important part: they feel that insane levels of cheering belongs to the Crazies, and joining them would be treading on their traditions or somehow offensive to the Crazies.

Appeal to our sense of wanting to be one of the Crazies, if only for a few minutes. "Join Us" (or something more creative) lets us know the Crazies WANT us to help, because from our perch, the Crazies are doing a great job. "Stand up" demands that we do more than we are, "Join us" gives us permission to be Crazies.

Over the years, I've noticed a few things work well:
- KEEP A STEADY CADENCE WITH THE CHEER. Keep it slow so people that are new to Cameron have a chance to understand what the Crazies are saying and join in before we can't keep up. Some people really want to do all the motions to "Let's Go Duke," but it's difficult to learn at warp speed. Many rookie spectators give up and watch, wishing they could participate.
- If the upstairs is asked to stand, the louder the Crazies cheer in acknowledgment, the faster the upstairs stands up (we'll do anything for a compliment!). Then immediately start a cheer we all know (and keep it steady so we don't drop out!).
- Ask the upstairs to stand towards the end of a timeout, not going into one. The intensity lasts 30-60 seconds from upstairs (absent any further action on the court) so the intensity tends to peter out just as the players are taking the floor again. We need to support our team the most as they resume play and not let the opponent draw any strength from waning cheers.
- No one upstairs is going to scream a protracted "ooooohhhhhhhhh" at the top of their lungs and bounce up and down. I think you have to be squished into the bleachers to do this. That kind of raw noise just ain't gonna happen upstairs. However, it is awesome to watch the Crazies do it.

Most of the upstairs doesn't read DBR, goduke.com, or any other basketball site. They get their Duke news from watching the games on TV and whatever the local media and their favorite homepage (MSN, Yahoo, or AOL) tells them. So cheers like, "The monster's out of the cage" won't be understood by the upstairs. And by "understood," I mean, unless somebody in the section read the cheer online somewhere, we can't make out what the Crazies are cheering (sounds like "My we're under age" or something), let alone determine that Matt Christensen is being honored. And that's OK. Just don't expect us to cheer along!

Another one that's particularly difficult is the "No - lan Smi - ith" clap, clap, clap-clap-clap cheer. Unfortunately, the acoustics in Cameron make nearly everything chanted sound alike as the sound bounces around the upstairs. We "section translators" ("cheering nutcases") upstairs look for motions and listen for the rhythm and pitch changes, so it's easy to pick up on "Let's Go Duke," "Here we go Devils," and "Go, Devils, Go." But "Some - thing, some - thing" clap, clap, clap-clap-clap is really difficult to make out because we don't have the luxury of hearing twenty five people within arm's length all screaming the same thing in our ear. Hopefully we "section translators" read DBR and remember which recruits are at the game or which opposing player's transgressions will be featured in cheers. If we figure out what the Crazies are saying, we pass it around the section and after everyone remarks how clever the Crazies are, the cheer is long over and we wish we could have participated.

So, dear Crazies, most of us upstairs will help out. Some of us never stopped being a Crazy. In fact, we hear that word whispered while people are pointing at us quite often. :rolleyes: But I've heard a lot of fans express a desire for permission from the Crazies to be sure we're worthy of helping them out at a crucial time. And if the upstairs knows what to cheer and can keep up, Cameron will be deafening.

[/soapbox]:)

[stals]

the upper crust is funny, i don't care who you are.

I think all chants need revamping. The our house chant is played out. I have to admit, I took my wife to a game in CIS against a good Clemson team and we saw Duke @ WFU. She said the game in winston was a lot better than the game in CIS. I was offended but oh well.

With all due respect, your wife doesn't know what she's talking about.

[4decadedukie]

I've never understand the O. What value does it add? What message does it send, other than "Look at me, aren't I clever?"

As you know, we have had several past threads that discuss see the "OH" in the National Anthem, in some detail. I have ALWAYS hoped the Crazies would cease its use, and I am very pleased that Coach K has now requested this, because -- as a long-service officer -- I find it to be somewhat offensive. While I recognize and honor the fact that others will not share my view, I believe there are a very few things that are too important and too sacred to be used as objects of humor or wit (real or self-imagined). Our National Anthem is one of these, remembering that many very fine people have sacrificed their lives, their health, and their futures for the things represented by the "Star Spangled Banner."

[throatybeard]

Over the years, I've noticed a few things work well:
- KEEP A STEADY CADENCE WITH THE CHEER. Keep it slow so people that are new to Cameron have a chance to understand what the Crazies are saying and join in before we can't keep up. Some people really want to do all the motions to "Let's Go Duke," but it's difficult to learn at warp speed. Many rookie spectators give up and watch, wishing they could participate.

Most of the upstairs doesn't read DBR, goduke.com, or any other basketball site. They get their Duke news from watching the games on TV and whatever the local media and their favorite homepage (MSN, Yahoo, or AOL) tells them. So cheers like, "The monster's out of the cage" won't be understood by the upstairs. And by "understood," I mean, unless somebody in the section read the cheer online somewhere, we can't make out what the Crazies are cheering (sounds like "My we're under age" or something), let alone determine that Matt Christensen is being honored. And that's OK. Just don't expect us to cheer along!


After undergoing undergrad acceleration disorder, the Christensen cheer always sounds like "Matt Lauer's gay" to me.

Eouu, eouu.

[OZ]

I can't believe they are getting rid of the "O." After forty years of being an "Upper Crustie," I was just getting the hang of it.

BTW, why are they not starting Verga any longer?

[devildeac]

Yeah, I haven't updated that thing in forever. (Gail Goestenkors should probably be removed, for example). But bemoaning the lameness of the Crusties is a hoary old chestnut I'm surprised I overlooked. It's sort of the inverse of

11K) The damn kids don’t support the team any more. Let me explain how much more effective I would be in those stands despite my varicose veins and my mortgage debt.

As to the topic at hand, this is exactly the sort of thing you think is a huge problem when you're 19, but you cease to care about it when you're 27.

Where can I get a "Cameron Crusty" t-shirt?

That just might be crazietalk;)

[CameronBornAndBred]

Throaty, I'm going to have some made up. Should I put you down for an XL?
I'll take a shirt for me and each of my parents. My dad won't wear it...but he'll totally appreciate it.

[77devil]

Most of the rest of us don't have physical limitations. Sure, we're tired after a day of work and prioritizing responsibilities so we can get to the game, but we look forward to it. Some of us cheer our hearts out for the whole game and are viewed in our section as the translator of whatever the Crazies are cheering (aka, "that nutcase that is always cheering"). Most fans, though, view their roles as one of a spectator that cheers for good plays. And here's the important part: they feel that insane levels of cheering belongs to the Crazies, and joining them would be treading on their traditions or somehow offensive to the Crazies.

Appeal to our sense of wanting to be one of the Crazies, if only for a few minutes. "Join Us" (or something more creative) lets us know the Crazies WANT us to help, because from our perch, the Crazies are doing a great job. "Stand up" demands that we do more than we are, "Join us" gives us permission to be Crazies.



I attend a few games a year in Cameron. I "commute" from Philadelphia. I've never been too tired to stand and never had difficultly staying with the Crazies. Maybe whomever you are referring to needs to try harder. After all, we are Duke.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I'll take a shirt for me and each of my parents. My dad won't wear it...but he'll totally appreciate it.
Hmmm, maybe I'll have a limited number of them printed up and number them 1 of 10, 2 of 10, etc. http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/24.gif

[uh_no]

- Ask the upstairs to stand towards the end of a timeout, not going into one. The intensity lasts 30-60 seconds from upstairs (absent any further action on the court) so the intensity tends to peter out just as the players are taking the floor again. We need to support our team the most as they resume play and not let the opponent draw any strength from waning cheers.

I was going to point that out.....but thank you for beating me to it....also 'join us' doesn't have the same ring of 'stand up'...though I would agree join us would more correctly convey the general sentiment among the student body

[throatybeard]

Throaty, I'm going to have some made up. Should I put you down for an XL?

I've had a certain quantity of beer in recent years. Better make it a double-X.

[MulletMan]

Reading this thread leaves a nasty taste in my mouth for a number of reasons.

Cameron Indoor Stadium is for sporting event. Anyone who feels a sense of entitlement about "who Cameron is for" is self centered and short sighted.

Cameron is for Duke fans. If you want to criticize how someone chooses to support their team, then I feel somewhat sorry for you, and suggest that you realize that those "Crusties" who've spent years buying tickets and donating to Iron Dukes have more of a stake in Duke Basketball, and more of a right to watch Duke games in Cameron than anyone. I don't care if they're sitting, standing or laying across a bean bag chair.

Yes, Coach K expects performance from The Crazies, and they get rewarded with FREE (or ridiculously cheap) seats to see Men's and Women's basketball games in the greatest arena in college basketball. Quit complaining about how others act, worry about how the Crazies are supporting the team, and then enjoy the games that you see from court side.

And really... just because its an internet message board doesn't mean that people shouldn't be treated with respect.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I've had a certain quantity of beer in recent years. Better make it a double-X.
Mine will be a XXL too. :(

[uh_no]

Quit complaining about how others act, worry about how the Crazies are supporting the team, and then enjoy the games that you see from court side.


Its a two sided coin....the people upstairs can't be complaining about how the crazies act either....

[devil84]

I attend a few games a year in Cameron. I "commute" from Philadelphia. I've never been too tired to stand and never had difficultly staying with the Crazies. Maybe whomever you are referring to needs to try harder. After all, we are Duke.

I think you missed my point:

And here's the important part: they feel that insane levels of cheering belongs to the Crazies, and joining them would be treading on their traditions or somehow offensive to the Crazies.

It's not about being tired or unable to keep up (with the exception of those cheers that speed up). It's that they feel they aren't supposed to cheer like Crazies. Usually it's phrased something like not wanting to be the embarrassing adult reliving their college days. Telling these people who don't want to embarrass themselves or the Crazies to "try harder" is rather insulting. It might work a whole lot better if the Crazies invite the upstairs to join them. It'd be mighty hard to turn down an invite to act crazy for a few minutes from such a respected group -- the very group many were trying not to embarrass.

I'm glad you're able to keep up with the Crazies and you are comfortable doing so. Not everyone is.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Hmmm, maybe I'll have a limited number of them printed up and number them 1 of 10, 2 of 10, etc. http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/24.gif
Limited edition or not, he's far more likely to frame it and hang it in his office than wear it on his back!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Limited edition or not, he's far more likely to frame it and hang it in his office than wear it on his back!
I'm going to put the Cameron Crustie on the front, in the same style as the Cameron Crazie T-shirts, and GTHC on the back, where the name would go. Large 9F optional :cool:

[DevilHorns]

Reading this thread leaves a nasty taste in my mouth for a number of reasons.

Cameron Indoor Stadium is for sporting event. Anyone who feels a sense of entitlement about "who Cameron is for" is self centered and short sighted.

Cameron is for Duke fans. If you want to criticize how someone chooses to support their team, then I feel somewhat sorry for you, and suggest that you realize that those "Crusties" who've spent years buying tickets and donating to Iron Dukes have more of a stake in Duke Basketball, and more of a right to watch Duke games in Cameron than anyone. I don't care if they're sitting, standing or laying across a bean bag chair.

Yes, Coach K expects performance from The Crazies, and they get rewarded with FREE (or ridiculously cheap) seats to see Men's and Women's basketball games in the greatest arena in college basketball. Quit complaining about how others act, worry about how the Crazies are supporting the team, and then enjoy the games that you see from court side.

And really... just because its an internet message board doesn't mean that people shouldn't be treated with respect.

Excellent post.

As a recent Duke Alum ('06), I agree with everything you've stated except the notion that the crazies have "FREE (or ridiculously cheap) seats." My student loans tend to differ, as does my very vivid memory of frigid cold temperatures and muddy slushy surroundings to earn those seats.

I hope one day to have the money so I can afford to be a season ticket holding Cameron Crustie.

[WhiteboardGuy]

The biggest issue with the seats upstairs is that when everyone stands, the folks at the top have their views completely obstructed by the girders that hold up the roof.

[devildeac]

I had a suggestion for Jack Winters several years ago. Have all the season ticket holders ready, willing and able to emulate the Crazies sign up in the pre-season for a particular section upstairs with the agreement that if they were assigned to that section, they would agree to stand/bounce/yell just like their young counterparts downstairs. Hmm...

I know who might be the 1st to ink his name to the agreement. And the 2nd...;)

And there's another story in there, too. Right, Ozzie?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I had a suggestion for Jack Winters several years ago. Have all the season ticket holders ready, willing and able to emulate the Crazies sign up in the pre-season for a particular section upstairs with the agreement that if they were assigned to that section, they would agree to stand/bounce/yell just like their young counterparts downstairs. Hmm...

I know who might be the 1st to ink his name to the agreement. And the 2nd...;)

And there's another story in there, too. Right, Ozzie?
I just wish I could get the students (and Cameron Crusties) to yell "TO HELL WITH carolina" at the right time during the fight song Blue and White ...



BLUE & WHITE

Duke, we thy anthems raise
For all thy praises untold
We sing for the Blue and White
Whose colors we uphold .....(TO HELL WITH carolina!)
Firm stands our line of blue
For we are loyal through and through
Fighting with the spirit true
For the love of old D. U.

Fight! We’ll fight!
With all our strength and might
Win, we can
So here we give a hand
Hey!
Rah! Rah! Rah! Rah!
D-U-K-E, rah!
D-U-K-E

[77devil]

I think you missed my point:


It's not about being tired or unable to keep up (with the exception of those cheers that speed up). It's that they feel they aren't supposed to cheer like Crazies. Usually it's phrased something like not wanting to be the embarrassing adult reliving their college days. Telling these people who don't want to embarrass themselves or the Crazies to "try harder" is rather insulting. It might work a whole lot better if the Crazies invite the upstairs to join them. It'd be mighty hard to turn down an invite to act crazy for a few minutes from such a respected group -- the very group many were trying not to embarrass.

I'm glad you're able to keep up with the Crazies and you are comfortable doing so. Not everyone is.

Fair point about the decorum factor but that can be insidious. I don't expect the upper deck literally to keep up with the Crazies nor do I. But I do see too many of the physically able spending too much time sitting passively in their seats and they should try harder to actively support the team in my opinion.

[MulletMan]

Excellent post.

As a recent Duke Alum ('06), I agree with everything you've stated except the notion that the crazies have "FREE (or ridiculously cheap) seats." My student loans tend to differ, as does my very vivid memory of frigid cold temperatures and muddy slushy surroundings to earn those seats.

I hope one day to have the money so I can afford to be a season ticket holding Cameron Crustie.

I would counter your point by noting that most undergrads at most institutions are paying tuition. I paid at my ugrad locale. Then I paid $20 a game for basketball tickets. How much do undergrads in Cameron pay for their seats?

And I always felt totally blessed that grad tickets were $150 for the season. Good God... that's ridiculous.

[davekay1971]

Excellent post.

As a recent Duke Alum ('06), I agree with everything you've stated except the notion that the crazies have "FREE (or ridiculously cheap) seats." My student loans tend to differ, as does my very vivid memory of frigid cold temperatures and muddy slushy surroundings to earn those seats.

I hope one day to have the money so I can afford to be a season ticket holding Cameron Crustie.

As ridiculous as it is, $50k per year is the going cost for a top 10 college education and what you'd pay at similar academic institutions. The season tickets to one of the best basketball programs in the country, with lower level seating in one of the best (and priciest) venues in the country, is a side benefit that is unique to Duke. Looking at the cost of upper level tickets at Cameron Indoor Stadium on StubHub, you're probably talking about a benefit with a cash value of $5,000 or more per year. Subtract out some for the PITA (pain-in-the-***) cost of camping out (tough to value given the variables associated with how much of a PITA that is - how much tequila you have, who's sharing the tent with you, how she looks before and after the tequila, etc), and it's still a pretty nice little benefit.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that I hope to one day have the funds to be one of those upper-crusties. Not there yet...and probably by the time my finances allow for some upper-crusty seating, I'll have aged nicely into actually being an upper-crusty. At which point I'll hobble into the arena with my rubber donut and sit and cheer to the best of my ability while Coach Marshall Plumlee guides the Blue Devils to yet another great season.

[DukieInKansas]

OK, who is going to have the "Cameron Crusties" T-shirts made up, and who besides me wants one? :cool:

Someone get me a ticket to a game and I'll wear one!

[alteran]

I was going to point that out.....but thank you for beating me to it....also 'join us' doesn't have the same ring of 'stand up'...though I would agree join us would more correctly convey the general sentiment among the student body

How about yelling "Stand up crazies" while gesturing towards the back/crusties, rather than "stand up" or "join us."

It's more inclusive/positive than "stand up," and closer to what's typically said than "join us."

Just my two crusty cents.

[devil84]

Fair point about the decorum factor but that can be insidious. I don't expect the upper deck literally to keep up with the Crazies nor do I. But I do see too many of the physically able spending too much time sitting passively in their seats and they should try harder to actively support the team in my opinion.

And you're entitled to your opinion.

And my response to your thoughts are summed up succinctly in MulletMan's post:


Reading this thread leaves a nasty taste in my mouth for a number of reasons.

Cameron Indoor Stadium is for sporting event. Anyone who feels a sense of entitlement about "who Cameron is for" is self centered and short sighted.

Cameron is for Duke fans. If you want to criticize how someone chooses to support their team, then I feel somewhat sorry for you, and suggest that you realize that those "Crusties" who've spent years buying tickets and donating to Iron Dukes have more of a stake in Duke Basketball, and more of a right to watch Duke games in Cameron than anyone. I don't care if they're sitting, standing or laying across a bean bag chair.

Yes, Coach K expects performance from The Crazies, and they get rewarded with FREE (or ridiculously cheap) seats to see Men's and Women's basketball games in the greatest arena in college basketball. Quit complaining about how others act, worry about how the Crazies are supporting the team, and then enjoy the games that you see from court side.

And really... just because its an internet message board doesn't mean that people shouldn't be treated with respect.

I'll need to amend "from court side" in the next to the last paragraph to "from your seat."

I'm not going to tell anyone how they should act when watching a game. If the Crazies want to encourage the upstairs at certain times, I can share ideas that I've seen work since I attended my first game in '76. I've got fond memories of Cameron from my student years, particularly being from the class of the Avuncular Letter. I agree with Terry Sanford's wisdom:

I don't think we need to be crude and obscene to be effectively enthusiastic. We can cheer and taunt with style; that should be the Duke trademark. Crudeness, profanity, and cheapness should not be our reputation--but it is.... I hope you will discipline yourselves and your fellow students. This request is in keeping with my commitment to self-government for students. It should not be up to me to enforce proper behavior that signifies the intelligence of Duke students. You should do it. Reprove those who make us all look bad. Shape up your own language. I hate for us to have the reputation of being stupid.I dearly hope that the students live up to Uncle Terry's advice and continue to be a positive standard by which all other student sections are judged. I hope that the people upstairs continue to support and embrace Duke Athletics. I think that the upstairs responds quite well when the Crazies ask, and I've given a few suggestions that may help enhance the cheers from above the rail. But given the level of financial support required for season tickets (or tuition) and the level of effort that some people (and Crazies) go through so they can make nearly every game for the past several decades (or their entire college career) to see their beloved Blue Devils, I cannot fathom asking them to "try harder" to meet some sort of enthusiasm standard.

[uh_no]

How about yelling "Stand up crazies" while gesturing towards the back/crusties, rather than "stand up" or "join us."

It's more inclusive/positive than "stand up," and closer to what's typically said than "join us."

Just my two crusty cents.

I like it: though the ability of this thread to effect change in what the crazies do and don't cheer is severely limited....and unless there is an edict from coach k, i don't see this one changing

that said, adding things to 'stand up' reduces the effectiveness and energy

stand up clap clap.....is much shorter and much more energy packed than
stand up crazies clap clap clapclapclap.....just too slow and drawn out.....(much like lets go duke is more exciting than lets go devils clap clap clapclapclap)

[91_92_01_10_15]

Maybe if you threw a "please" in there. In my experience, folks always respond better to a request than a command.

Just wanted to respond to my anonymous comment: "pretentious people like you give all the crusties a bad name."

How do you feel when someone demands you do something?

I sit in front of a 90-year-old at the games. He's an incredible guy. When everyone stands up, he can't see. When 1000 people start screaming at me to stand up, I feel angry.

I'd be happy to discuss it with you via PM or email if you'd like to step out from behind your cloak of anonymity.

[DukieInKansas]

Just wanted to respond to my anonymous comment: "pretentious people like you give all the crusties a bad name."

How do you feel when someone demands you do something?

I sit in front of a 90-year-old at the games. He's an incredible guy. When everyone stands up, he can't see. When 1000 people start screaming at me to stand up, I feel angry.

I'd be happy to discuss it with you via PM or email if you'd like to step out from behind your cloak of anonymity.

I support you in not standing up and, therefore, blocking the view of the gentleman behind you. This is a considerate position to take.

For almost 3 decades, we had pro football season tickets. Our seats for the last half of that time were in the second row of the club level, or the snob section as I affectionately referred to it. The last few years we attended, it was not easy for my elderly father to get to the seats - but he was there cheering on the hapless chefs. Occasionally, the people in front of us would give their tickets away and the folks using them would want to stand the entire game. Standing was not required as they had an unobstructed view of the field. They did not always take kindly to the request to stay seated, except for important plays or touchdowns/field goals. We had our tickets through some really bad years. I resented people questioning our loyalty and team spirit just because we didn't stand during the entire game. Dad would stand for the national anthem, introduction of teams, and good plays. He just wasn't capable of standing for extended periods of time. He would, however, yell with the best of them! I would point out that I paid really good money for the seat and I was going to use it. :D

[4decadedukie]

Excellent post.

As a recent Duke Alum ('06), I agree with everything you've stated except the notion that the crazies have "FREE (or ridiculously cheap) seats." My student loans tend to differ, as does my very vivid memory of frigid cold temperatures and muddy slushy surroundings to earn those seats.

I hope one day to have the money so I can afford to be a season ticket holding Cameron Crustie.


I agree that it was an excellent post, and I appreciate your thoughtful and supportive response.

However -- and this is a relatively minor point -- just to set the record straight, EVERY Duke student (undergraduate, postgraduate or professional), even those who pay full tuition, fees, room, board and so forth, essentially receives a $20+K annual "scholarship" from the crusties: University alumni (and other charitable donors). That is the per-student difference between the aggregate expenses of operating non-Medical Center Duke and the potential revenue if each student paid the full Trustee-approved costs. Obviously, a Duke education is not inexpensive; however, the life-long benefits are exceptionally SUBSTANTIAL. I mention this only because there is a generally held (and erroneous) opinion among students and alums that the "full tuition payers" cover their own expenses; that is simply untrue -- and the incremental value approximates $100K during a four-year undergraduate program.

[B-well]

I started this thread to find creative ways to get us "Cameron Crusties" more involved during games. I guess all threads tend to drift, but let's recap and get back to basics.

I can't jump up as easily as I once did - and I know the folks behind me are glad of that. I also have toned down the affection I express for the officials - and my wife is glad of that. My family never schedules anything - even funerals - without checking the basketball schedule.

Maybe the "Cameron Crusty" identity and Ozzie's shirts can help us help the Crazies in keeping Cameron the best home court in college basketball.

Maybe wearing blue and white to games can become a thing. (Ozzie, please don't get pink Crusty shirts).

Maybe, instead of "stand-up" (which I think implies the Crusties are not doing their part), the Crazies could yell something like "Come On Crusties" and the Crusties who are able can stand in response.

It might take a while for the Crusties to catch on, but it is worth a try.

Love Duke, it's catching.

[uh_no]

EVERY Duke student (undergraduate, postgraduate or professional), even those who pay full tuition, fees, room, board and so forth, essentially receives a $20+K annual "scholarship" from the crusties: University alumni (and other charitable donors). That is the per-student difference between the aggregate expenses of operating non-Medical Center Duke and the potential revenue if each student paid the full Trustee-approved costs.

There is this nice thing called an endowment......yes some donations go into it....but it would folly to pretend that students are somehow indebted to crusties for these reasons

[4decadedukie]

There is this nice thing called an endowment......yes some donations go into it....but it would folly to pretend that students are somehow indebted to crusties for these reasons

Every Duke student -- past, present and future -- is, in fact, indebted to the generosity of those who have contributed (financially, and in many other ways) to Duke University throughout the last 160+ years (dating back to Union Institute days). Service on the Annual Fund Executive Committee, the Alumni Association’s Executive Committee, as Chair of Fuqua’s Isle Maligne Society, and so forth makes this abundantly clear to me, far more so than it was 15+ years ago before I had the benefits of these experiences.

Endowment revenues, combined with unrestricted annual donations, and with directed gifts represent the overwhelming majority of the resources that construct and equip the facilities, provide the salaries and research funds for the faculty members, fund the scholarships, and so much more. Uh_no, where do you think the capital for these significant, costly activities is derived? The Crusties (and their brethren, past and present) are the very individuals who contribute to the several Annual Funds, who create and donate to the endowments, who provide the specific major gifts for buildings, libraries, laboratories, dormitories and athletic facilities, and who make possible both named professorial chairs and scholarships (among many other things).

I notice that you will soon have two Engineering Degrees from Duke. I will wager you can guess why the Pratt School is named for Edmund Pratt (’47) and his family, why Fitzpatrick Center is named for Michael (’70) and Patricia (’69) Fitzpatrick, and why the French Family Science Center is named for Melinda French Gates (’86 and ’87) and her family; and these wonderful gifts are only is the “tip of the iceberg” at Duke. Walk in any direction on our campuses and you will see edifices that your predecessors -- the Crusties -- paid for, research where the funding for scholarships is derived and -- again -- you will discover that the Crusties paid the bill, chat with your professors concerning where their salaries, overhead expenses and research funds emanate from and you will once more find that the Crusties make it possible.

To think otherwise is either uninformed or ungrateful.

[lpd1982]

Wow! I went away for the weekend and this is still going on? I love when we have good back and forth discussion. I usually learn a lot. In my humble opinion, this is not one of those discussions where we make progress or learn much by continuing and, in fact, I hope some of our competing fan bases don't find this thread interesting enough to read.

Now you can be cross with me instead of the Crusties or the Crazies. LET'S GO DUKE!

[Exiled_Devil]

Reading this thread leaves a nasty taste in my mouth for a number of reasons.

Cameron Indoor Stadium is for sporting event. Anyone who feels a sense of entitlement about "who Cameron is for" is self centered and short sighted.

Cameron is for Duke fans. If you want to criticize how someone chooses to support their team, then I feel somewhat sorry for you, and suggest that you realize that those "Crusties" who've spent years buying tickets and donating to Iron Dukes have more of a stake in Duke Basketball, and more of a right to watch Duke games in Cameron than anyone. I don't care if they're sitting, standing or laying across a bean bag chair.

Yes, Coach K expects performance from The Crazies, and they get rewarded with FREE (or ridiculously cheap) seats to see Men's and Women's basketball games in the greatest arena in college basketball. Quit complaining about how others act, worry about how the Crazies are supporting the team, and then enjoy the games that you see from court side.

And really... just because its an internet message board doesn't mean that people shouldn't be treated with respect.

It's always great when the guy with the mullet is the reasonable one in the room.

Having been upstairs and downstairs, I had a very different attitude. When downstairs, I was excited to be part of the game, the show and the experience. Upstairs is distant compared to downstairs. And the experience is very different.

I would say "try to be the best you can downstairs and stop worrying about the Iron Dukes upstairs". As the Crazies get crazier downstairs, so the Crazies upstairs will get crazier as well.

Then again, Thoaty's quote in my sig.

[davekay1971]

I had one opportunity two years ago to sit with the upper crusties in the fold-out chairs below the basket. I may not have been able to afford to get into Cameron, but it's good to know someone who can, right? Duke-Wake game, great game, high scoring, Gerald throwing down massive dunks. I was going nuts, but I had these little old ladies right behind me, so I'd stand, scream, and then remind myself to sit down. The game was pretty close, I'd stand to cheer the defense, then remind myself to sit down. I felt completely out of place, not least of all because my friend and I are there at the invitation of one of the bigwigs at Duke, and I'm wearing a shirt that says "Carolina Sucks" on the front and "But Hansbrough Sw..." (yeah, you know how that ends), on the back. The whole time, just to my left, the crazies are going nuts, standing and jumping and cheering.

There was nothing I wanted more than to say bye to the power players in the seats and climb right up into the bleachers.

The point of this little story is to tell the crazies to just enjoy it while you have it. I think most of the crusties are still crazies at heart. But either they don't have the energy and ability to spend 2 hours jumping up and down and screaming, or, like me, they do, but they're seated in front of a bunch of folks who don't. Cameron is an amazing experience from any seat, but the best experience still belongs to the students, and that's the magic of the place.

This year I'm going to finally get into the upper section. I'm bringing my wife, who went to State after the RBC center was built. She went to a bunch of games, but never had the opportunity to experience Reynolds in an ACC rivalry game. Now she'll experience Cameron, but it's still not going to be the experience I had cheering on Hurley and Laettner and the Hills from the third row of the bleachers. That four years of being in the bleachers, right there, watching the best basketball in America, is something you get only as a Duke student. Just enjoy it, and let the crusties be YOUR sixth man as best they can. They'd probably trade places with you in a heartbeat.

[B-well]

Welcome to Crustyville

[DevilHorns]

I agree that it was an excellent post, and I appreciate your thoughtful and supportive response.

However -- and this is a relatively minor point -- just to set the record straight, EVERY Duke student (undergraduate, postgraduate or professional), even those who pay full tuition, fees, room, board and so forth, essentially receives a $20+K annual "scholarship" from the crusties: University alumni (and other charitable donors). That is the per-student difference between the aggregate expenses of operating non-Medical Center Duke and the potential revenue if each student paid the full Trustee-approved costs. Obviously, a Duke education is not inexpensive; however, the life-long benefits are exceptionally SUBSTANTIAL. I mention this only because there is a generally held (and erroneous) opinion among students and alums that the "full tuition payers" cover their own expenses; that is simply untrue -- and the incremental value approximates $100K during a four-year undergraduate program.

I 100% agree. I wouldn't have been able to attend Duke without the generosity of alumni, donors, iron dukes, crusties, what have you. I will forever be indebted to those individuals. In the future I hope to be financially able to contribute donations myself.

That said, my initial remark was that undergrad crazies are not essentially getting "FREE (or ridiculously cheap) seats."

To be an average Duke undergrad takes a lot of debt (even after all the generosity of others is added to decrease that cost).

To be a crazie --- to revert to some economics speak --- takes a good deal of opportunity cost. The sheer time spent sleeping in the tents, making tent checks, sacrificing time that could be spent in the warm bundled dorm is more than just marginal. And of course tenting is very fun. But sometimes when the snow is layered thick and you can't feel your fingers or toes, you wish you were inside. It's as simple as that. For the biggest games, to be a crazie takes some degree of sacrifice. Now, if being a crazie required a substantial financial fee (on top of the tuition cost), I probably wouldn't have been able to do it. The idea of cost is of course different depending on what a person values and their financial state. Though in one way I can understand that crazies are essentially getting "FREE (or ridiculously cheap) seats," in other ways that idea does not ring true.

[4decadedukie]

I 100% agree. I wouldn't have been able to attend Duke without the generosity of alumni, donors, iron dukes, crusties, what have you. I will forever be indebted to those individuals. In the future I hope to be financially able to contribute donations myself.

That said, my initial remark was that undergrad crazies are not essentially getting "FREE (or ridiculously cheap) seats."

To be an average Duke undergrad takes a lot of debt (even after all the generosity of others is added to decrease that cost).

To be a crazie --- to revert to some economics speak --- takes a good deal of opportunity cost. The sheer time spent sleeping in the tents, making tent checks, sacrificing time that could be spent in the warm bundled dorm is more than just marginal. And of course tenting is very fun. But sometimes when the snow is layered thick and you can't feel your fingers or toes, you wish you were inside. It's as simple as that. For the biggest games, to be a crazie takes some degree of sacrifice. Now, if being a crazie required a substantial financial fee (on top of the tuition cost), I probably wouldn't have been able to do it. The idea of cost is of course different depending on what a person values and their financial state. Though in one way I can understand that crazies are essentially getting "FREE (or ridiculously cheap) seats," in other ways that idea does not ring true.


I fully agree with you re Cameron, et al. My point, as you know, was focused somewhat broader in its focus.

[davekay1971]

Welcome to Crustyville

Don't forget 5 kilos of excess weight, 4 scars from my recent gallbladder-ectomy, 3 kids, 2 mortgages, and an ex-wife in a pear tree...

[throatybeard]

It's always great when the guy with the mullet is the reasonable one in the room.

Having been upstairs and downstairs, I had a very different attitude. When downstairs, I was excited to be part of the game, the show and the experience. Upstairs is distant compared to downstairs. And the experience is very different.

I would say "try to be the best you can downstairs and stop worrying about the Iron Dukes upstairs". As the Crazies get crazier downstairs, so the Crazies upstairs will get crazier as well.

Then again, Thoaty's quote in my sig.

Maybe what we need is some super-dynamic grad students who can coordinate call&response cheers between the Crazies and the Crusties.

[-jk]

Maybe what we need is some super-dynamic grad students who can coordinate call&response cheers between the Crazies and the Crusties.

Ooh! Deja vu!

-jk

[B-well]

My grandsons thought you were the model for Hagar the Horrible

[MulletMan]

Maybe what we need is some super-dynamic grad students who can coordinate call&response cheers between the Crazies and the Crusties.

Well! Back when I was a crazy...

*sniff*

[MulletMan]

My grandsons thought you were the model for Hagar the Horrible

Wait... because of the beard? Cuz, he wasn't the one wearing the viking helmet.

Thing is... Hagar had both... a throaty beard and a viking helmet. OH MY GOD! That's what a kid between Throaty and Viking would be! I'm so disturbed... :eek:

[B-well]

They always thought Throaty Beard was the one with the beard. Sorry!!!

[ricks68]

Wait... because of the beard? Cuz, he wasn't the one wearing the viking helmet.

Thing is... Hagar had both... a throaty beard and a viking helmet. OH MY GOD! That's what a kid between Throaty and Viking would be! I'm so disturbed... :eek:

Anyone heard from Ed? Since Throaty and MulletMan have checked in, we must have the final word from Viking Hat Guy!

ricks

[ricks68]

I'm going to put the Cameron Crustie on the front, in the same style as the Cameron Crazie T-shirts, and GTHC on the back, where the name would go. Large 9F optional :cool:

I'll take an XL. I can wear it with you guys for a game this year, hopefully. I can also wear it this April in Houston. I like the idea, Oz, especially with the same lettering and the GTHC on the back with a different number beneath it. Maybe DBR could use it for another fundraiser. Copy the same colors and print as the one in the Duke Store. I would get a lot more use out of it than my "I Said No to Dean" shirt. My favorite name crossed out on the back of that one has always been Elian Gonzalez.

ricks

[ricks68]

Has everyone forgotten Crazy Towel Guy. When he stands and starts waving the towel for us to get up in the upper stands, we get up. So, what's the problem?

ricks

[B-well]

So - once each half - if they remember - the Crazies can get CTG to stand up , wave his towel and exhort the Crusties to stand.

CTG and STAND UP are about the only interactions between Crazies and Crusties during a game. Both are initiated by the Crazies.

Is fan (all the fans) participation in Cameron is as good as it can get?
I don't think so.

Come on Crusties - Let's get involved in the fun!!

[MulletMan]

Anyone heard from Ed? Since Throaty and MulletMan have checked in, we must have the final word from Viking Hat Guy!

ricks

Indeed. The Viking has gone into seclusion in the "real world" and I speak to him frequently.

And yes, Throatybeard is the guy with the Throatybeard. And Viking Guy is the guy with the viking helmet.

[CameronBornAndBred]

How awesome is this?!!!
Thanks tons Ima...I want one so bad!
1651

[4decadedukie]

The button is simply terrific!!! I will be on campus this weekend for a Executive Committee meeting and for the UVa game. I would love to buy a "Crusties" Tee-shirt and/or button. All advice gratefully accepted.

[devildeac]

How awesome is this?!!!
Thanks tons Ima...I want one so bad!
1651

Ozzie and I tried our best last PM with standing, cheering, dancing and other assorted "crusty" activities. Not many of them were effective but we had a pretty good time. I even started our own cheer:

Let's get crusty: clap, clap, clap/clap/clap.

It didn't go over very well. I think I'll just go soak in the tub now and take my ibuprofen and have a cup of hot tea.

:rolleyes:;)

[rasputin]

Ozzie and I tried our best last PM with standing, cheering, dancing and other assorted "crusty" activities. Not many of them were effective but we had a pretty good time. I even started our own cheer:

Let's get crusty: clap, clap, clap/clap/clap.

It didn't go over very well. I think I'll just go soak in the tub now and take my ibuprofen and have a cup of hot tea.

:rolleyes:;)

Don't forget the Geritol.;)

[B-well]

Ozzie and I tried our best last PM with standing, cheering, dancing and other assorted "crusty" activities. Not many of them were effective but we had a pretty good time. I even started our own cheer:

Let's get crusty: clap, clap, clap/clap/clap.

It didn't go over very well. I think I'll just go soak in the tub now and take my ibuprofen and have a cup of hot tea.

:rolleyes:;)

There were pockets of Crusty Cheering last night - mostly pockets of one.

Keep trying - It may take an ESPN Special to get the Crusties to Create.

In the first half, half the Crazies were calling out Zoubek at the same time the other half were calling out CTG. They forgot to call out either in the second half.

[devildeac]

Don't forget the Geritol.;)

I'm not that old.;)

[77devil]

So - once each half - if they remember - the Crazies can get CTG to stand up , wave his towel and exhort the Crusties to stand.

CTG and STAND UP are about the only interactions between Crazies and Crusties during a game. Both are initiated by the Crazies.

Is fan (all the fans) participation in Cameron is as good as it can get?
I don't think so.

Come on Crusties - Let's get involved in the fun!!
That's SilkyJ, a Cameron Crazie of the first order, exhorting CTG to do his thing at the Navy football game reception in 2004. Herb graciously responded, but only the Crazie was standing up on his chair.

[B-well]

#1 Stand in a chair

[DevilWearsPrada]

There were pockets of Crusty Cheering last night - mostly pockets of one.

Keep trying - It may take an ESPN Special to get the Crusties to Create.

In the first half, half the Crazies were calling out Zoubek at the same time the other half were calling out CTG. They forgot to call out either in the second half.

ROFL......almost spitting on my laptop!! I was cheering, yelling and standing up last night, and had my 2 pom poms high in the air. There was NO one around me standing! As I was really looking last night. I had the binoculars looking around each Section in the UPPER CRUST!!!

I wouldn't mind sitting downstairs.......... but dang it....... I do NOT want to stand up for the entire game, my knees will not allow that. And some tall guy always seems to be in front of me.

Shall I throw out Candy (lots left from Halloween) like Bob Carter?

I want a Cameron Crustie shirt and button!!!

MEMBER OF THE CAMERON UPPER CRUST.... CAMERON CRUSTIES!!! LOL

[OZZIE4DUKE]

So - once each half - if they remember - the Crazies can get CTG to stand up , wave his towel and exhort the Crusties to stand.

CTG and STAND UP are about the only interactions between Crazies and Crusties during a game. Both are initiated by the Crazies.

Is fan (all the fans) participation in Cameron is as good as it can get?
I don't think so.

Come on Crusties - Let's get involved in the fun!!
I'll be more impressed with the Crazies when THEY show up for a friggin FOOTBALL GAME!

Their attendance, or lack thereof, at the UVA game, was beyond pitiful. It was disgraceful.

[flyingdutchdevil]

How do we get the upper crusties to stop complaining about the Cameron Crazies?

Wait - I apologize. Lemme answer this.

Upper crusties' response: When the Cameron Crazies start a) being active for the whole 120 minutes of any basketball game, regardless of opponent and b) when they start attending football games.

Cameron Crazies' response: That ain't happening

Upper crusties' response: Then we'll continue to complain

Cameron Crazies' response: OK

[Devilsfan]

Ozzie gets it!

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

I'll be more impressed with the Crazies when THEY show up for a friggin FOOTBALL GAME!

Their attendance, or lack thereof, at the UVA game, was beyond pitiful. It was disgraceful.


Fer sher. Til then, it's hard to take any critique from them seriously. No credibility, bless their hearts.
Love, Ima

[4decadedukie]

I'll be more impressed with the Crazies when THEY show up for a friggin FOOTBALL GAME!

Their attendance, or lack thereof, at the UVA game, was beyond pitiful. It was disgraceful.



Absolutely correct, sir. I was privileged to sit in the President's Box for the UVa game; here is an interesting fact, directly applicable to the "Cameron Crusties" discussion: President and Mrs. Brodhead and Trustees' Chair Dan Blue and his wife (seated immediately in from of us) were beyond enthusiastic during the game -- especially the final quarter. Their cheers and joy at Duke's successes and our eventual victory would make any undergraduate seated in Cameron's floor-level seats envious. We may be Crusties, but we “bleed blue and white,” and not just for Blue Devil teams with legitimate National Championship aspirations. As stated by Ozzie, Duke’s student body should be disgraced by its lack of support for THEIR (and our) football team!

[cf-62]

the upper crust is funny, i don't care who you are.

I think all chants need revamping. The our house chant is played out. I have to admit, I took my wife to a game in CIS against a good Clemson team and we saw Duke @ WFU. She said the game in winston was a lot better than the game in CIS. I was offended but oh well.

Don't be offended. Just understand, Duke @ any arena gets that school's fans doing their best impersonation of the Crazies (at Clemson, for example, they camp out) - just to camp out. Same at UCLA almost 20 years ago (wow).

So the Wake fans fill the arena (from what I hear, it is the only game that sells out - even UNC doesn't), and they cheer loudly.

To top it off, the last two years, Duke has played at Wake Forest on "Skip Prosser Day."

[Bluedog]

I'll be more impressed with the Crazies when THEY show up for a friggin FOOTBALL GAME!

Their attendance, or lack thereof, at the UVA game, was beyond pitiful. It was disgraceful.


I agree, but it's not like non-student attendance for the UVa game was good either. It was also pitiful. I don't know why a pathetic attendance is all the students' fault. It's a joint responsibility. There seems to be a lot of student-alumni/fans griping lately on these boards! I have to say I'm not a fan...we're all in the same boat cheering for the same team! (says a fairly recent alumnus.) Let's go Duke!

[throatybeard]

And yes, Throatybeard is the guy with the Throatybeard.

Synecdoche is felicitous.

[MulletMan]

Synecdoche is felicitous.

Watch your mouth.

[B-well]

How much noise would be generated if:

1. 4500 people seated in the upper level of Cameron were to simultaneously mumble "Let's Go Duke"?

2.4500 people seated in the upper level of Cameron were to simutaneously utter "Let's Go Duke" in a normal speaking voice?

3. 4500 people seated in the upper level of Cameron were to simultaneously say "let's Go Duke" in the voice they use to scold their dog.

Given these three data points, we could make some projections about how much noise would occur if they were to simultaneously yell "Let's Go Duke"

[CameronBlue]

How much noise would be generated if:

1. 4500 people seated in the upper level of Cameron were to simultaneously mumble "Let's Go Duke"?

2.4500 people seated in the upper level of Cameron were to simutaneously utter "Let's Go Duke" in a normal speaking voice?

3. 4500 people seated in the upper level of Cameron were to simultaneously say "let's Go Duke" in the voice they use to scold their dog.

Given these three data points, we could make some projections about how much noise would occur if they were to simultaneously yell "Let's Go Duke"

Or "Donated a Wing!" or anything, just make some noise. Criminy.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Do we really need to have this thread... AGAIN? There are plenty of us who sit upstairs that make plenty of noise. We don't all jump up and down. And no, not everyone chooses to join in. I am sure someone with a degree in social psychology can explain this sort of group behavior among adults in close quarters. But come on... there are plenty of folks upstairs who absolutely join in. And when the crazies do their job, Cameron is one hell of a loud and intimidating venue. Let's not engage in more finger pointing. I mean, is there really a problem here?

[CameronBlue]

Do we really need to have this thread... AGAIN? There are plenty of us who sit upstairs that make plenty of noise. We don't all jump up and down. And no, not everyone chooses to join in. I am sure someone with a degree in social psychology can explain this sort of group behavior among adults in close quarters. But come on... there are plenty of folks upstairs who absolutely join in. And when the crazies do their job, Cameron is one hell of a loud and intimidating venue. Let's not engage in more finger pointing. I mean, is there really a problem here?

No there isn't because it's a safe wager that many of those in the upper decks are the loyal few who populate Wade on football Saturdays where the denizens of the Cameron bleachers are strangely absent. (I just like taking a gratuitous cheap shot whenever possible.) The latter is far more embarrassing to me as a loyal Wade attendee, not to dredge up another tired subject.

[4decadedukie]

No there isn't because it's a safe wager that many of those in the upper decks are the loyal few who populate Wade on football Saturdays where the denizens of the Cameron bleachers are strangely absent. (I just like taking a gratuitous cheap shot whenever possible.) The latter is far more embarrassing to me as a loyal Wade attendee, not to dredge up another tired subject.


Ah, but is it really is a "cheap shot" if it is factual?

[alteran]

Ah, but is it really is a "cheap shot" if it is factual?

This seems like a good place to mention again that the students really came out in Wade for the BC game.

The Virginia game was HORRIBLE in terms of student attendance-- exacerbated by the fact that it was such an AMAZING GAME-- but in fairness it appears to have been an aberration.

I agree with others that feel this thread has become tedious. Moreover, if the intention of this thread is to get the crusties a little louder there are plenty of good solutions already here. To wit:

1) gesture, in as friendly a way as possible, towards the Crusties when you want to boost the noise level. You will get a response, particularly if many are gesturing at the same time. Pick your battles, though.

2) try to use simple cheers that the Crusties can join in on. For example, the slow and consistently paced version of, "Let's Go Duke!"

3) remember that the various "DAH-da-DAH-da" cheers are completely indecipherable from upstairs. We CAN'T join these in any meaningful way.

4) towards the end of the timeout is better than at the beginning, for several reasons

5) remember and appreciate the fact that Duke, unlike virtually every school in the NCAA, has resisted moving its high paying boosters to the floor. They are away from the action, and the students have the best seats in the house. Another way to look at this that the folks most likely to be less able and/or less willing (both apply, but don't underestimate the former) to participate at the highest levels of Cameron fandom are already safely away from the critical locations. In short, Duke has essentially solved the worst aspects of this problem for us.

So we already have some good ideas if we want to increase fan participation from upstairs.

Of course, if the real purpose of the thread is to tell the Crusties how lame they are to no real end, well... okay then, let's keep going.

[flyingdutchdevil]

2) try to use simple cheers that the Crusties can join in on. For example, the slow and consistently paced version of, "Let's Go Duke!"

Are all upper crusties 80+ years old?

[Devilsfan]

This thread begs the question, how much noice would be created if 4500 students simultaneously cheered at football games in their best slurred, post tailgate, voices?
Just kidding! I for one don't think this thread needs to exist.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

How much noise would be generated if:

1. 4500 people seated in the upper level of Cameron were to simultaneously mumble "Let's Go Duke"?

2.4500 people seated in the upper level of Cameron were to simutaneously utter "Let's Go Duke" in a normal speaking voice?

3. 4500 people seated in the upper level of Cameron were to simultaneously say "let's Go Duke" in the voice they use to scold their dog.

Given these three data points, we could make some projections about how much noise would occur if they were to simultaneously yell "Let's Go Duke"

This is a very tiresome topic. We've got a wonderful team who will be playing some outstanding games this year. We should be focused on supporting them, each in our own way.

[elvis14]

Are all upper crusties 80+ years old?

It's not an age issue, it'a an acoustic issue. When I go to the games, I usually go with a friend who has seats in the last row. That's cool, b/c last row in CIS beats front row anywhere else...hell it beats being on the floor in the Dean Dump. I've been in various other seats as well (thank you people who sell tickets on their way into games and on this board!). It can just be flat out hard to tell what the Crazies are saying. That's why simple slow starting chants are needed. People can't join in when they can't tell what you are saying. I don't know how many times I've asked or been asked "what are they chanting?" by people of all ages.

[Philsfan]

It's not an age issue, it'a an acoustic issue. When I go to the games, I usually go with a friend who has seats in the last row. That's cool, b/c last row in CIS beats front row anywhere else...hell it beats being on the floor in the Dean Dump. I've been in various other seats as well (thank you people who sell tickets on their way into games and on this board!). It can just be flat out hard to tell what the Crazies are saying. That's why simple slow starting chants are needed. People can't join in when they can't tell what you are saying. I don't know how many times I've asked or been asked "what are they chanting?" by people of all ages.

Totally agree. I'm 38 and mostly sit in the lower part of Section 1 when I've been fortunate enough to go and I can make out maybe 50% of the Crazies' chants.