MBB: Duke 141 St Aug's 68 Post-Game Thread [Archive]

ACCBBallFan

10-23-2010, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by Duke: A Dynasty
http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame...e=7100&bView=0
Final Box Score
Thanks.

I gained a new empathy for official scorers. When I tried to keep stats, found myself missing some of the action that was so fast.

I tried to add all the positive metrics deduct the negative ones and account for team leaders in each category. Final metrics:

Rating Player
113 Kyle Singler * led in min, points, rebounds

90 Seth Curry led in FT made, FT Attempts, A:T was 5:1; tied for best +/-
86 Kyrie Irving * 21 min; 17 pts; A:T 7:1
86 Ryan Kelly 21 min; 6 boards, led with 4 steals; tied for second best +/-

83 Mason Plumlee * 8 boards, 6-6 in FGS; 3 blocks but 4 fouls, tied for best +/-
81 Nolan Smith * A:T leader with 9:2; tied for second best +/-
81 Andre Dawkins 22 min; 20 points; 6-6 from line

68 Miles Plumlee * 22 min; 4 blocks; only 1 foul
64 Tyler Thornton 6 rebounds; A:T 4:1; but 3 PF's

42 Josh Hairston A:T was 2:0 but fouled out

9 Todd Zafirovski
6 Casey Peters

St. Augustine got what they wanted by playing 9 guys double digit minutes in Cameron, had 7 guys score 7 or more points with balanced scoring. When back in their division, they can do quite well despite losing 6 of their top 7 scorers from last season.

strawbs

10-23-2010, 10:23 PM

Just a few impressions from the game tonight:

Mason/Miles-I was disappointed with both tonight, more so Miles. Going against a team with no one taller than 6'7 you would think that these two freak athletes should be able to pull down at least 20 rebounds combined, but they only had 10 between them. Really disappointing is that Miles only had 2. I'm not worried about Miles only having 2 pts at all. I don't think he had a ball passed to him on the block (the same goes for mason). I do think foul trouble could also be a big problem with them both. Why do they feel they have to be in the guys they are guarding shorts when they are on the perimeter. They resort to handchecking then and pick up cheep fouls, and are also prone to letting their guy go right around them to the hoop. ***Mason had one foul tonight where the guy he was guarding swung his elbow and could have easily been called for a foul. He started walking down the court and was surprised the foul had been called on him (mason). I don't know why he was so shocked, he had his hands all over the guy right before he threw the elbow***

Kyrie is awesome, he makes everyone so much better.

Dre/Seth both are going to stretch the floor with their range. Such a huge advantage to have 2 amazing 3 pt shooters.

Kyle looked great. He's shooting like he thinks every jumper he takes will be nothing but nylon, and it seem like if he got his feet under him it was going in.

Nolan was Nolan. I'm a little worried about his free throw shooting. He missed a handful at CTC and then his first 3 tonight. Hopefully this isn't a trend.

Ryan looked good except that he force about 4 entry passes all of which were tipped away. I'm not too worried about it, because last season he showed that he was very good at the entry pass on the high/low feed.

Tyler- had a really nice transition bucket, where he got his man off balance and finished with a finger roll. Also hit 2 3's so with those and the couple he made at CTC, it's nice to see we have another guard who can be a perimeter threat.

Josh- Had a couple lapses on defense, but also drew a couple charges. The thing I really like about him is that he has great hands (the ball doesn't hit the floor when he's thrown the ball) and he has good body control so he can finish around the basket. If his defense comes around, he will be another asset for us this year.

Namtilal

10-23-2010, 10:23 PM

Ugh. We didn't need Curry, Dawkins, and Thornton all to play so well. Keeping such an incredible and deep backcourt happy this season will be Coach K's biggest challenge.

dukejim1

10-23-2010, 10:27 PM

I really like the way he has played in CTC and tonight.. His defensive position reminds me of Amaker and he will even improve that with our coaching. He has good court vision and he hits the spot up 3. He will always come up short in comparison to Kyrie but I believe most collegiate guards will as well. Our future backcourt (Curry, Dawkins, Rivers, Cook and Thornton) will still be tops in the country even after the losses of Nolan and Kyrie.

Duvall

10-23-2010, 10:27 PM

Nolan was Nolan. I'm a little worried about his free throw shooting. He missed a handful at CTC and then his first 3 tonight. Hopefully this isn't a trend.

Nolan Smith is a career 78.9% FT shooter. I really don't think we should worry after about 40 minutes of exhibition action.

stillcrazie

10-23-2010, 10:30 PM

Just a few observations to share with y'all who couldn't be there. Kyrie was amazing, and it seemed to me that he was showing the minimum of what he can do. He was fast, made good decisions with the ball, shot well, and made some great moves to the basket. I can only imagine what would happen if he tried to carry the team on his back. I was also pleasantly surprised by Thornton, who seemed in control when he had the ball, hit a couple of threes (plus an air ball at the end), and played great defense. Hairston had some good moments, but made typical freshman mistakes on defense and committed too many fouls. Meaning five.

I think one reason Dawkins and Curry hit so many shots is that St. Augustine's just couldn't double team all our offensive weapons. Andre and Seth were money from the perimeter.

Most improved player? Mason showed a lot on offense and he and Kyrie already work well together. Ryan Kelly has improved more, however. He looks more at home on the floor than he did last year and communicated a lot, took some good shots, and even had two dunks. He plays smart, although he made a couple of ill-advised passes that resulted in turnovers.

Miles had some amazing blocks, four I think, but lacked aggressiveness on offense and I was surprised that he did not have more rebounds. Then again, Zoubek did not turn on the jets until late January or so, so I don't think there is any need to panic.

I noticed that Seth had some kind of knee problem toward the end and a trainer was working on him. Hoping that it is not serious. I can't wait to see what Coach K is going to do with this team.

ACCBBallFan

10-23-2010, 10:37 PM

Here's a bit on the game and the post game audio comments from Coach K. http://bluedevilnation.net/2010/10/the-bdn-post-game-report-duke-runs-past-st-augs-141-68-krzyzewski-post-game/

As you will hear by one of my Q's to K, they had just installed the running offense this evening and he'll go into that in detail.

Thanks, Mark.

Your interview was much better than the one on GoDuke.com that did have one interesting exchange.

They guy subbing for Bob Harris (who was still returning from VA Tech football game) mentioned that commentator John had made the point Duke has 5 guys who can handle the ball on fast breaks without having to outlet to Kyrie or Nolan.

Coach K stopped him and said that is wrong. He only wants those 2 handling the ball on breaks, and started to say not even Dre.

Kyle, Plumlees, Ryan, Josh, Dre have to look to get it to true PGs to run the break the right way.

I do not recall whether he mentioned Seth one way or the other.

ACCBBallFan

10-23-2010, 11:05 PM

ACCBBallFan

10-23-2010, 11:10 PM

Link I attempted to copy from pre-game thread did not paste correctly.

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=7100&bView=0

Official stats are now available anyway

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22726&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205017577

OZZIE4DUKE

10-23-2010, 11:13 PM

It is going to be a very fun year. Enjoy the ride and the results will come on their own. :cool:

El_Diablo

10-23-2010, 11:15 PM

Why do they feel they have to be in the guys they are guarding shorts when they are on the perimeter. They resort to handchecking then and pick up cheep fouls, and are also prone to letting their guy go right around them to the hoop.

I assume this is the way that Coach K having the entire team play this season...stifling on-ball pressure, disrupting the passing lanes, and rotating defenders when someone tries driving to the hoop. In other words, complete and utter chaos for the opponent, leading to frantic possessions and turnovers. Yes, the bigs may get beat a few times in this type of system, but that's okay as long as the weak-side defenders are paying attention and rotate appropriately. And the Plumlees won't be playing against small, quick players like this all the time, so it should turn out better in games where the opposing big men are actually Cs and PFs rather than a collection of SFs. I would feel pretty comfortable watching Tracy Smith, Tyler Zeller, or Jordan Williams have to face up and try to act as playmakers by putting the ball on the floor 20 feet from the basket.

That said, if they're going to play pressure D, they do need to focus on their footwork and cut down on the hand-checking, or they're going to pick up a lot of cheap fouls.

***Mason had one foul tonight where the guy he was guarding swung his elbow and could have easily been called for a foul. He started walking down the court and was surprised the foul had been called on him (mason). I don't know why he was so shocked, he had his hands all over the guy right before he threw the elbow***

He was surprised because the St. Augustine's player not only threw an elbow but connected with Mason's face. Then the ref blew the whistle, so he (and I, and a lot of other fans) initially thought that the ref was calling an offensive foul there.

There will be some growing pains with the Plumlees as they settle into the defensive scheme, but they have time to improve those areas (footwork, not reaching). And on the plus side, they (and Ryan) altered a ton of shots tonight in addition to the blocks. We built up a huge lead by forcing lots of bricks and airballs at the beginning...it's going to be very tough for opponents to get off decent shots in the lane this year.

Newton_14

10-23-2010, 11:33 PM

strawbs - Miles led the team in minutes played and only had 1 foul. So not sure why based on tonight at least you would say fouls will be trouble for both of them.

A short quick team like this could be more difficult to guard than guys their size.

Listen to Mark's presser with coach K who was extremely pleased with Mason 6-6.

While I personally think Duke would fare better with Plumlees alternating at center every four minutes than playing aside one another, coach K obviously wants them both on the floor as much as possible.

A three man roatation with both Plumlees and Ryan and either Kyle some at PF or Josh some will work just fine, regardless of who starts.

As far as Ryan entry passes, at least he was trying them. Just needs to get his timing down so early in the season. He did have 2 assists to go with his two turnovers, one to Josh if I recall.

Already knew Seth could shoot but his 5:1 assist to turnover was also encouraging for Duke. He is a much more well rounded guard than Dre who shoots great but not as much a stat stuffer overall.

In Mark's presser, coach K was very positive about Tyler having been a winner in DC area forever, and Josh being a good role player starter on Team USA U-18.

Agree. I was there and I am not disappointed in any of our guys tonight. They looked better than I expected after only 1 week of practice, even against woeful competition.

This team can score in bunches in a number of ways. In the first half, they ran the exact same play for 4 different guys, with all 4 scoring at least once. I saw several new wrinkles on offense and the sets they were running were very different from last year.

Kyrie Irving and Seth Curry drastically change the dynamic of this team. Both are as good as advertised, and there are a number of ACC teams that would love to have Tyler Thornton as their starting point guard. It did not take long for the first Kyrie to Mason lob, and Mason got fouled on the play and still finished the dunk.

There are just a ton of shooters on this team. It is hard to knock down 19 three-pointers no matter who the competition is. Singler led the way, Kyrie nailed his first one, Seth, Andre, Tyler, Ryan, it is just amazing how many shooters this team has. But, to add to that, several kids can drive well and get their own shots if required.

One thing I was looking for that came to fruition at least for this game is the unselfishness. All of those scorers and shooters, seemed very eager to set up their teammates for shots, which is great to see. I have not looked at the stats yet but on the ride home I seem to recall hearing that we had something like 28 assists or something. Incredible. There was a lot of good passing to go along with the shooting.

We did not look for post-ups much, but we did have a few high low sets, with bigs passing to bigs or bigs passing to one of the guards. I am looking forward to see what wrinkles K dreams up as the year progresses.

One thing that struck me at CTC, and that I saw again tonight is all of the scholarship kids are capable of making contributions. As the competition stiffens it will be interesting to see if that holds, but I do feel all 10 can go out there and not be overwhelmed, no matter who we are playing.

As for defense, Kyrie is better at on the ball defense than I expected which is great. Seth also appears to be really good at on ball pressure as well. We picked up full court most of the night with straight man. In the 2nd half K mixed in some traps just past half court. Josh Hairston was pretty good with help defense, drawing a couple of charges, and 3 of the 5 fouls were bad calls with the 4th and 5th downright horrible calls. Hard to get a read on interior defense in a game like this but the bigs did what they were supposed to do protecting the paint and blocking shots.

I agree with others on Ryan and Mason looking to be most improved from last year, but I was proud of Andre as well. He looks far more comfortable this year on both ends of the floor. He has improved his defense a lot as well as his lateral quickness. He also skied for one rebound that drew a "wow" from the crowd. Dude has hops.

Take it for what it was against this level of competition, but there is a lot to be excited about. This team is going to be darn near impossible to defend.

As for the big vs small debate, there were 2 bigs on the floor most of the night. Late in the 2nd half, K moved Singler to the 4 for about a 3 or 4 minute stretch. We did have several 3 guard line ups but with 2 of the 4 true bigs (Miles, Mason, Ryan, Josh) out there with them. That will be interesting to watch moving forward as well.

COYS

10-23-2010, 11:42 PM

Just a few impressions from the game tonight:

Mason/Miles-I was disappointed with both tonight, more so Miles. Going against a team with no one taller than 6'7 you would think that these two freak athletes should be able to pull down at least 20 rebounds combined, but they only had 10 between them. Really disappointing is that Miles only had 2. I'm not worried about Miles only having 2 pts at all. I don't think he had a ball passed to him on the block (the same goes for mason). I do think foul trouble could also be a big problem with them both. Why do they feel they have to be in the guys they are guarding shorts when they are on the perimeter. They resort to handchecking then and pick up cheep fouls, and are also prone to letting their guy go right around them to the hoop. ***Mason had one foul tonight where the guy he was guarding swung his elbow and could have easily been called for a foul. He started walking down the court and was surprised the foul had been called on him (mason). I don't know why he was so shocked, he had his hands all over the guy right before he threw the elbow***

No reason to worry about Miles. He's posted excellent rebound rates in his first two years. Past stats indicate that this game was a definitely an outlier on the low end.
As for Mason's defense, I think we as fans are really going to have to be patient. In many ways, this year is going to be the freshman year Mason never really had. Last year's team developed in such a way that Mason was asked to fill a very different role than even Coach K and the staff envisioned for him at the start of the season. This year, he will be turned loose so to speak. Coach K will definitely be tough on him in terms of fulfilling his defensive role, but I think we'll see a freer Mason who will make some mistakes but also make a big difference using his athleticism, motor, and skill. Hopefully, as the season progresses, he'll get better and better at knowing when to say "no" and not gamble for a steal or a highlight block. Jay Bilas repeatedly claimed that Mason was the player with the highest ceiling on Duke last season. With Kyrie on the roster, I'm not sure if Bilas would still make that claim. However, I think that we'll get to see more of the Mason that Coach K, the rest of the staff, and Bilas have already seen.

ACCBBallFan

10-23-2010, 11:44 PM

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22726&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205017590

Freshman Kyrie Irving
On how he felt the team played in the exhibition opener:
“A couple weeks ago, even last week, we were still in the preseason. Now we’re starting to get in gear. Kyle Singler played really well, and Nolan [Smith] too. Everyone just played well, and it all started on the defensive end.”

On how he felt he played, and how practice performance translated into the game:
“I felt really comfortable out there. We’ve been practicing really hard lately, and our practices are a lot harder than games. Coming out here, it’s not a breeze, but it’s a lot easier than practice. They [my teammates] make my job a lot easier.”

On the GoDuke.com interview, Seth also said the Blue team keeps the score competitive in 5 vs. 5

SCMatt33

10-23-2010, 11:54 PM

Nolan Smith is a career 78.9% FT shooter. I really don't think we should worry after about 40 minutes of exhibition action.

I definitely agree with you that 40 minutes against St. Aug's means nothing, but I think FT shooting over the course of the year will be interesting to follow. I expect this team to get to the line much more than last year and it will be an important stat. Given the drastic change in tempo, players will be constantly running, and even though stamina over the course of the game is controlled with minutes, in any one play, guys will likely will have been running a little more than within plays than last year so they will be breathing just a little heavier and their hearts will be pumping just a little more, so the veterans will have to adjust.

The team shot about 73% today so the first test is passed, even if Nolan was a little off. Even if this wasn't a problem I would expect the team percentage to be down a little this year. The big guys will likely be a bigger part of the offense than last year, so they will take more FT's relative to what they took as a group last year, and that combined with losing Lance who was great last year for a big man as well as losing one of the best FT shooters in Duke history will naturally cause that to drop off.

Free throws are one of many things that will require small adjustments as part of the new offense, but I would be surprised if we dropped back to where we were before last year (under 70%).

fgb

10-23-2010, 11:55 PM

one thing that's really exciting about the team being so guard-heavy this year (and for the next couple of years, at least) is imagining the ball pressure that we're going to be able to bring, without really having to worry much about fatigue or foul trouble. man, we are going to wear some teams down. way down.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15

10-23-2010, 11:56 PM

For everyone who is concerned about shooting 68% from the FT line in one exhibition, don't forget we also scored 141. If you are going to be worried about long term free throws, don't forget to be exciting by long term trends with points! I doubt we lose many games where we score over 140. :D

In seriousness, I cannot wait for the first time to see these guys on TV! It's been a devil of an off season...

strawbs

10-24-2010, 12:11 AM

strawbs - Miles led the team in minutes played and only had 1 foul. So not sure why based on tonight at least you would say fouls will be trouble for both of them. .

I honestly didn't realize he only had 1 foul, i should have checked the box score. However I was basing my statement off of the way they played defense. Both Mason and Miles were hand checking their assignment and could have easily been called for more fouls. If they continue to guard people like that, it could lead to a foul trouble situation in the future, when it actually matters.

If that is how K wants them to play d though, I should just keep my mouth shut. I understand the logic of being aggressive and trying to cause "chaos", especially with the guards we have who could then jump the passing lanes and start a break. And if that is in fact how K want them to d it up, who am I to second guess a 4 time national championship, world championship, olympic gold medal winning, etc........

Namtilal

10-24-2010, 12:14 AM

Haven't seen Kyrie play yet. Very excited to watch soon. I know this is a dangerous game to play, but who do you compare him to? Either contemporary or historical.

BlueDster

10-24-2010, 12:19 AM

I think a key to this team's development will figuring out how to rebound while still being able to start the fast break effectively. Maybe I was just used to Zoubek eating up every rebound, but it seemed like St. Augustine's got a good number of offensive rebounds considering our size advantage, probably because as soon as a shot went up most players were already preparing to run the other way. The fast break already seems to be working at a high level, and I know the pace that we will play at will make possession efficiency a bit less important. Also, I'm sure more emphasis would be placed on rebounding if this game were anywhere near close.

When this game started I just had a huge grin on my face. Irving seems to be as advertised or better, and Thornton and Hairston seem like they'll be able to contribute and find a spot. Meanwhile, our veterans seem to be improved and players like Ryan Kelly and Andre Dawkins seem to have made a leap as well. Kelly in particular seemed less tentative and showcased some of his talents that we hadn't really had a chance to see yet.

It's going to be a fun year!

dukeblue02

10-24-2010, 12:38 AM

This team and its expectations remind me a little of our team during my freshman year at Duke...if you guys remember, the '98-'99 team started Trajan Langdon, Elton Brand, William Avery, Shane Battier, and Chris Carawell with Nate James and Corey Maggette on the bench...it may have been an even more talented bunch than we had this year. Like both years the expectations were extraordinarily high, we played at a frantic no holds-barred pace every game and really punched the opponent in the mouth every game out. We only lost 1 game that year (to Kenyan Martin and Cincinnati), beside thechampionship game, and this team this year has the capability to do the same. But like '98, you never know what can happen in the tournament, which is what makes it so great! Everyone needs a little luck to win the National Championship but i have a great feeling this is going to be a great ride this year, whatever happens in the end.

With that being said, i was at the game tonight and must say that Kyrie Irving went well beyond my expectations....i think the most dominant player we've had at duke over the past decaded or so has been Jason Williams, a truly remarkable college player that could truly take over a college basketball game by himself (do you remember the end of that maryland game??), i don't think anyone at duke has reached that level since he's left. Kyrie Irving has this type of potential...although Jason was a bit stronger, i see the quickness, intelligence, and shooting ability that make both point guards very similar. I can't wait to see him develop this year and beyond if he sticks around.

It's gonna be a great ride this year and although we won't put up 140 points every night, it's going to be a really fun team to watch this year, especially if you're a college basketball fan that loves offensive jauggernauts......

ACCBBallFan

10-24-2010, 01:22 AM

Imagine how many points Duke would have scored if Miles had not shaved off the Zoubeard. Josh still sporting one.

Some other encouraqing stats Kyrie played good defense with zero fouls, Dawkins no fouls as well and Miles only 1.

proelitedota

10-24-2010, 01:32 AM

I really want Ryan Kelly to be a starter by conference play. IMO, a 6'11 dude who can shoot from the perimeter is something that would absolutely destroy teams.

Duke: A Dynasty

10-24-2010, 02:06 AM

Duke: A Dynasty

10-24-2010, 02:08 AM

Haven't seen Kyrie play yet. Very excited to watch soon. I know this is a dangerous game to play, but who do you compare him to? Either contemporary or historical.

Chris Paul from Wake Forrest....

BlueDster

10-24-2010, 02:29 AM

No reason to worry about them not dominating guys this small. K generally tells his guys to not go all out (particullarly the bigs) in these scrimmages because the competition is low and the size is unfair. Mason and Miles tried to "play nice" in a sense.

This makes sense from a practical standpoint. There's probably not much to be gained for the team if they just let the big guys hit layups over short defenders all game. Probably better to let them work on other aspects of their game.

juise

10-24-2010, 02:40 AM

No reason to worry about them not dominating guys this small. K generally tells his guys to not go all out (particullarly the bigs) in these scrimmages because the competition is low and the size is unfair. Mason and Miles tried to "play nice" in a sense.

I could see that with regard to scoring, but definitely not with regard to rebounding. I am not worried about Miles or Mason, but I'm not sure I buy that argument.

TaiAdmiral

10-24-2010, 03:44 AM

Cockabeau

10-24-2010, 08:13 AM

I don't know why, KI reminds me of Malcolm Delaney but with superior point guard skills.

camion

10-24-2010, 08:36 AM

Looking over the stats I notice that St. Augustine beat the Duke non-starters by the score of 68-66. St. Aug needed 200 man-minutes to score those 68 points while the Duke subs played 99 man-minutes. Given another minute or two the subs probably would have won. :)

NSDukeFan

10-24-2010, 09:09 AM

dukeimac

10-24-2010, 09:11 AM

Looking at the stats a few things stick out. Nice that everyone got good some good time but this game should not be a measuring stick for anything.

No way Kyle will play just 22 minutes in most games. No way Nolan only plays 18 minutes in most games. Who looses time and how does that affect them, and then the team?

I dont' believe Coach K told anyone to take it easy. In reading his books he is clear to say you have to work hard, all the time, there is no time you can take any time off. Seeing that Miles only scored 2 points and had a few rebounds while playing the most minutes is not good. How does he adjust to no one really challenging him for playing time? If Mason is the person who will challenge him how does that work out, I know things get nastier when the competition is between brothers. They played together last year, and in their high school years. Now they could be competing against each other. If Kelly is that much better then we could see more Mason then Miles, what does that do to Miles, and the team?

I'm hoping things come together but Coach K's biggest challenge this year will be making a "team" out of this group of guys. Duke's chances for another title will only come from these guys playing as a "team" and how people compete for their playing time and adjust to that time will be the biggest challenge, because it this that could become the biggest obstacle. And the "team" will be challenged the most when things are not going so good for someone. Winning won't be much of a problem but managing the players could be.

ajgoodfella7

10-24-2010, 09:46 AM

If anyone's awake at this ungodly hour, here's Crazie-Talk's recap from St. Augustine's (with video)!

http://www.crazie-talk.com/2010/10/24/section-17-this-is-duke-basketball-duke-vs-st-augustines/ (http://www.crazie-talk.com/2010/10/24/section-17-this-is-duke-basketball-duke-vs-st-augustines/)

That video was a thing of beauty. Did anyone notice how deep that 3 was by Seth at 2:12... he was at least 6 feet behind the line. Very Redick-esque, and it just goes to show that for him to shoot the ball from 26 feet in his first game at Duke means K must have a lot of faith in him already.

nocilla

10-24-2010, 09:50 AM

Cockabeau

10-24-2010, 10:39 AM

That Seth Curry shot was so pure...I love this kids game

timmy c

10-24-2010, 11:17 AM

That video was a thing of beauty. Did anyone notice how deep that 3 was by Seth at 2:12... he was at least 6 feet behind the line. Very Redick-esque, and it just goes to show that for him to shoot the ball from 26 feet in his first game at Duke means K must have a lot of faith in him already.

Seth had such a quick release on that shot! I had to replay that part of the video several times to be sure that I saw it right.

As a side note - I'm sure that he was earning respect during practice last year. I expect he'll play "starter" minutes this year.

Cockabeau

10-24-2010, 11:43 AM

striker219

10-24-2010, 12:30 PM

That video was a thing of beauty. Did anyone notice how deep that 3 was by Seth at 2:12... he was at least 6 feet behind the line. Very Redick-esque, and it just goes to show that for him to shoot the ball from 26 feet in his first game at Duke means K must have a lot of faith in him already.

I read somewhere during this long, long, long off-season where one of our coaching staff (maybe K?) said that Seth has range up to 30 feet. At the time I thought it was probably an exaggeration but also an exciting sign of what he can do. Seeing how natural he made that 26 foot shot look during a game, I'm willing to bet that he probably does hit a lot of shots from that far in practice. That's nuts.

airowe

10-24-2010, 01:27 PM

My reaction from the blowout win. This team is going to be special by the end of the year, if they aren't already: http://www.dukehoopblog.com/2010/10/24/devils-dish-it-out-in-exhibition-win/

Kedsy

10-24-2010, 01:42 PM

And there aren't many teams with three let alone two good shooters. Lets say we play Dawkins and Seth with KI,Singler and a Plum. You just cant defend that team. There is no way. If you are an opponent-the strategy basically is to hope Duke misses the outside shot alot before you get worn down from the pressure man-to-man.

Not to mention Nolan, who's a pretty good shooter in his own right and can't be guarded too closely or he'll blow by you. Duke has a lot of unguardable combinations this year.

Newton_14

10-24-2010, 02:28 PM

No reason to worry about them not dominating guys this small. K generally tells his guys to not go all out (particullarly the bigs) in these scrimmages because the competition is low and the size is unfair. Mason and Miles tried to "play nice" in a sense.

No offense, but I assure you no Mike Kryzewski team "lets up" "plays nice" or "takes it easy" on any team in any game. They are taught to play hard every play of every game no matter the opponent. The only "letting up" is, when you get a lead like they had last night, and the opponent is inferior, it is hard mentally to keep the killer instinct and focus. But there is no chance K ever tells his team to take it easy on someone. The only thing K will do is call off the fast breaking and dial the full court defense back to halfcourt late in games when the score is out of hand.

Miles will be fine. As the competition stiffens, he will be called upon more and needed more and based on the progression he has made thus far, I see no reason why he won't continue to improve and get better game by game and year over year.

Dr. Rosenrosen

10-24-2010, 03:07 PM

On the GoDuke.com interview, Seth also said the Blue team keeps the score competitive in 5 vs. 5

This has got to be one of our greatest assets... being able to compete against such high level competition during practices can only accelerate everyone's development. How many other teams across the country will get this benefit? Very few I imagine.

Poincaré

10-24-2010, 03:19 PM

This team will be fun to watch. However, can we draw any conclusions from this game? Probably not. Fast pace tends to make teams look better than they are. What did impress me was that we had only 12 turnovers despite playing at a breakneck pace. Why was Jon the most efficient player in the country last year? He took care of the ball. I don't imagine that any single player on this team will be as good as Jon was in that dimension this year (in part due to pace), but it seems that we could conceivably replicate the same level of efficiency as a team.

If our guards can collectively replicate Jon's lack of turnovers AND play this pace... Wait, I need to calm myself down. This is only a pre-season game.

Jderf

10-24-2010, 03:20 PM

I was very, very impressed with what I saw from Ryan. Obviously, this is cautious optimism, but from what we saw, I think it is slowly becoming more and more reasonable to expect that he will have a large positive effect on this team. What impressed me most was his surprising court-savvy, on both offense and defense. On offense, he showed that he knew when to shoot and when to dish, going 5-6 from the floor and setting up several clever plays (such as the one airowe points out on his blog (http://www.dukehoopblog.com/2010/10/24/devils-dish-it-out-in-exhibition-win/)). And on defense, he displayed a real knack for sliding into passing lanes, leading the team in steals. Going forward, the real question will be to see how he will adjust to defending bigger, stronger forwards. Again, as lemma says above, the conclusions we can draw are limited. But for now, what we have seen is certainly promising.

Jderf

10-24-2010, 03:41 PM

We have numerous outstanding 3-point shooters. But I think we can categorize them into two tiers from what we saw last night, based on how quick the release on their shot is.

Seth and Kyle (but first and foremost Seth): These two seem to be able to pull off their shot instantaneously. I expect them to be used a lot in pick-and-pop situations, since they only need a fraction of a second and minimal space to get off their shot. Seth is impressive in this regard, and Kyle (in my opinion) is up there too because he will be able to use his size and speed (in relation to the forwards that will be guarding him) to create enough space for "easy" threes.

Nolan, Kyrie, and Dre (Ryan? Tyler?): These three (that aren't in parentheses) are also superb shooters. If given the opportunity, they will knock down the three. But compared to the two in the first tier, the amount of time they need to release their shot is slightly more human. Their shooting is definitely going to play a big role as the season progresses, but I don't know if they are as perfect for the pick-and-pop as Kyle and Seth. (As for the gentlemen in parentheses, I'm not quite ready to make any conclusions just yet.)

(Just to re-emphasize from my last post, this analysis only really applies to one game and is pretty limited. Obviously, any statements here are provisional, and I'm excited to see how these players improve as the season plays out.)

Cockabeau

10-24-2010, 04:12 PM

Two points. I think Ryan Kelly could eventually take PT away from Miles if Miles doesnt get it right. Ryan can shoot,has good footwork and hands and can finish. Miles should be dominating the paint with his athleticism and size and especially with our spacing.

I think you can put Dre into tier 1 shooter along with Curry. Singler looks like he could get there. :cool:

Jderf

10-24-2010, 04:20 PM

I think you can put Dre into tier 1 shooter along with Curry. Singler looks like he could get there. :cool:

Dre definitely has one of the purest strokes we have seen at Duke in a while, and he has shown that he can be deadly. But the reason I put him in the second category is that his release is just not as quick, in my opinion. Clearly, that conclusion is somewhat unscientific, so if others feel differently, I'd be glad to hear it.

Greg_Newton

10-24-2010, 04:32 PM

Wow. This team is going to be really, really, really good. I've been holding in my hyperbole thus far, but I've got to let a little loose.

I know it's just St. Aug's, but there were certain things Duke did tonight that didn't have much to do with the five players in away jerseys. We had numerous fast breaks where the ball want from a defensive rebound to going through the hoop in 2-3 seconds, with 2-3 passes and the ball only hitting the ground a couple of times... on the first day of the fast-break offense's implementation!

Plus, this roster is just stacked with talent. I honestly think this is the best perimeter squad we've ever had, top to bottom. We have at least four players who could be All-Americans were they the featured scorer on their team. Not only that, everyone seems to have good chemistry, as evidenced by the absurdly high assist rate.

And the talent just happens to be distributed about perfectly; it's not just a collection of good players, it's three great all-around players surrounded by a group of teammates that are great at certain things that make them perfect for their roles on this specific team.

Kyrie, Nolan and Kyle are arguable the best in the country at their respective positions. The Plumlees are limited with the ball in their hands, but it's almost unfair that that perimeter has two guys with that ridiculous athleticism and ability to run the court to dish off to. They're not built for running the offense through, but you won't find a pair of better 6'10 runners and finishers - which is just what we'll need from them this year.

Then there's the bench, four of whom could make up the core of a very good ACC team on their own. Curry and Dawkins are really exciting - I really like having them in together. Those are two of the best gunners you'll see, and are perfectly made for their roles off the bench. They can come in and reel off a flurry of threes out of nowhere, just as you're still reeling from the first punch from the starters. I hope they develop a cockiness, and start taking pride in their role as gunners off the bench... an Iceman and Maverick type of thing!:p They almost demand a separate gameplan in their own right, and it's not that often you can say that about your backup backcourt. Thornton has also been a revelation - he's a legitimate ACC PG right now, doesn't appear to have many weaknesses, and is a nice tough, gritty option off the bench if we come out soft.

And I haven't even gotten to Ryan Kelly. He might be our best all-around big man right now. Aside from the offensive skillset, he showed terrific defensive instincts tonight (getting a ton of deflections and steals), has great timing on shot blocks, and is deceptively long and athletic - his hands get quite high above the rim off of one step. I wonder if we'll see him starting alongside Mason at some point - they seem to be our most dangerous and in-control duo up front at this moment, and they both have superb hands. I am a little concerned about Miles, but I'll reserve judgment for now.

Anyway, who knows about the tourney, which is more about your floor than ceiling - can you win on your off night? - but this team is going to have some incredible games and look downright scary at times. I'll go ahead and predict more than one 30+ ACC win this year. This is going to be a fun few months!

diesel

10-24-2010, 05:13 PM

What a pleasure to see this game! Last year I thought Nolan Smith was the most improved player. This year I thought it was Ryan Kelly. I particularly liked his defense and I think he competes for a starting position as a big. I thought Dre Dawkins had also improved and what a pleasure it was to finally see Seth playing! And I thought even Kyle Singler showed improvement. He was really impressive and looked like an NBA player playing schoolboys.

Kyrie Irving is the real deal and the pre-arrival hype about him was merited. And I was most impressed with the other frosh, Josh Hairston and Tyler Thornton. I liked the way Josh took charges. By the way, the trajectory on Josh’s free throws is one of the flattest I have ever seen but he still put away three out of four, so what does it matter?

The upshot for me is that this team has the best potential I have seen in 46 years watching Blue Devil basketball. I’m freaking out on the basis of an exhibition game against weak opposition, you say? No way: this is a team to be feared by the competition. And when the present seniors depart and even if Kyrie is one and done we still have a great team.

A final word. I saw the game by buying a month’s worth of Duke Inside Access, which I figured would get me to the regular TV season and will also include the Cal Poly Sonoma game. That was the best $10 worth I have got in a long time! And by watching it on my desktop I also didn’t have to put up with the whining of the Household Heel (although I notice she has been rather subdued about ChappaHeeya lately.) Instead of having to search for transmissions from FSN and Raycom as in past years (and whining about it to the rest of DBR), I shall probably buy more Inside Access as the season progresses. I can highly recommend the service!

Duke: A Dynasty

10-24-2010, 06:18 PM

No offense, but I assure you no Mike Kryzewski team "lets up" "plays nice" or "takes it easy" on any team in any game. They are taught to play hard every play of every game no matter the opponent. The only "letting up" is, when you get a lead like they had last night, and the opponent is inferior, it is hard mentally to keep the killer instinct and focus. But there is no chance K ever tells his team to take it easy on someone. The only thing K will do is call off the fast breaking and dial the full court defense back to halfcourt late in games when the score is out of hand.

Miles will be fine. As the competition stiffens, he will be called upon more and needed more and based on the progression he has made thus far, I see no reason why he won't continue to improve and get better game by game and year over year.

They usually do against these small schools who only play Duke for the kids on the team to expierence going to Cameron and playing top college players. K knows that and does not set out to embaress them by having the bigs slam them around. he bigs usually take it light in these games by not rebounding as hard or scoring a lot.

Jderf

10-24-2010, 06:23 PM

Newton_14

10-24-2010, 08:06 PM

They usually do against these small schools who only play Duke for the kids on the team to expierence going to Cameron and playing top college players. K knows that and does not set out to embaress them by having the bigs slam them around. he bigs usually take it light in these games by not rebounding as hard or scoring a lot.

Not sure if you saw this game or not, but I was at the game. I assure you our bigs did not "take it light". They tried to block every single shot attempted in the lane and gave no easy baskets up. There were a couple of times when tempers flared due to physical play, with K ripping the refs at one point during the 2nd half when Thornton took a forearm shove to the face and somehow got the foul called on him. Thornton then had a few choice words for the St Aug's player and had to be pulled aside by the ref.

Despite having 40, 50, and 60 point leads, K kept 2 of the true bigs on the floor at all times until very late in the 2nd half when he went to a 3 guard set with Kyle sliding over to the 4 for maybe 2 or 3 minutes. K finally pulled all of the starters with 3 minutes to go and put the walkon's in with 3 of the 2nd team members. Even then the guys played hard. That is the staple of Duke basketball. Playing hard every play, every game. That applies to all players including bigs.

K uses these games to work on all aspects of the game and prepare the team for success. Not sure if you read the reports of last week's various midnight madness events, but there was more than one article that reported how most of the teams treated those scrimmages as a dunkfest and showtime while Duke went to war. Just ask Seth Curry as he got 8 stitches to the face. The same reports were given last year during the open practices during the NCAA tournament. Most teams had shoot arounds and showtime dunk events for their practices, while again, one reporter said Duke's practices were like "World War 2".

The point again being, K never allows, let alone directs any player on his teams to "take it light". Just does not happen.

timmy c

10-24-2010, 09:04 PM

...k never allows, let alone directs any player on his teams to "take it light". Just does not happen.

preach it!!!

BoozerWasFouled

10-24-2010, 10:04 PM

The point again being, K never allows, let alone directs any player on his teams to "take it light". Just does not happen.

Well, Coach K has spoken about how he never tries to humiliate an opponent. So he clearly thinks about managing a dignified outcome. A lot of it is running different sets where the players are still trying their hardest but are doing new things so it is less than optimal.

This year certainly poses an interesting problem from a sportsmanship perspective. Usually, the way Coach K calls off the dogs is by substituting the final 5 guys in the rotation. They play as hard as they can, but they aren't as good, so it prevents humiliation. This year, though, the last 5 guys in Duke's rotation are very, very good. How do you call off the dogs on a team where players as good as Tyler Thornton and Josh Hairston are third options?

jipops

10-24-2010, 10:08 PM

And I haven't even gotten to Ryan Kelly. He might be our best all-around big man right now. Aside from the offensive skillset, he showed terrific defensive instincts tonight (getting a ton of deflections and steals), has great timing on shot blocks, and is deceptively long and athletic - his hands get quite high above the rim off of one step. I wonder if we'll see him starting alongside Mason at some point - they seem to be our most dangerous and in-control duo up front at this moment, and they both have superb hands.

I'm going to buy this point, and I didn't even see the exhibition. I do think Kelly has more basketball skill than Miles and Mason, he just doesn't the explosiveness they do. And Miles does have the edge over both in terms of experience and doing battle. Mason is no slouch either has a high post passer but I do feel Ryan brings a wider skill set to the table and with the added strength and hopefully toughness, he'll be a tough load to handle. I like the fact that we have guys like Kelly and Curry with such an array of actual basketball skill coming off the bench. If you put the bench on the floor that includes these two guys, there isn't that much of a concern over the offense being initiated.

Other than a win, my biggest hope after each game is that each player remains healthy. Please, please please stay healthy. This team at, near, or around 100% healthy going into March has some nice potential.

Jderf

10-24-2010, 10:15 PM

I'm going to buy this point, and I didn't even see the exhibition. I do think Kelly has more basketball skill than Miles and Mason, he just doesn't the explosiveness they do. And Miles does have the edge over both in terms of experience and doing battle. Mason is no slouch either has a high post passer but I do feel Ryan brings a wider skill set to the table and with the added strength and hopefully toughness, he'll be a tough load to handle. I like the fact that we have guys like Kelly and Curry with such an array of actual basketball skill coming off the bench. If you put the bench on the floor that includes these two guys, there isn't that much of a concern over the offense being initiated.

Another aspect of the Ryan-Mason-Miles comparison is that Kelly has the best hands out of the three, in terms of catching passes. I don't know if anyone else out there has noticed this, but Mason and Miles have an unsettling tendency of dropping passes to the interior. I noticed it all through last season, but kept thinking it was just that one time, just that one pass. Eventually, I saw it enough to start thinking it was a trend. Kelly, on the other hand seems to be a lot more reliable as a pass receiver, at least to me. Would anyone else corroborate this, at least as regards the Plumlees?

jipops

10-24-2010, 10:17 PM

Well, Coach K has spoken about how he never tries to humiliate an opponent. So he clearly thinks about managing a dignified outcome. A lot of it is running different sets where the players are still trying their hardest but are doing new things so it is less than optimal.

This year certainly poses an interesting problem from a sportsmanship perspective. Usually, the way Coach K calls off the dogs is by substituting the final 5 guys in the rotation. They play as hard as they can, but they aren't as good, so it prevents humiliation. This year, though, the last 5 guys in Duke's rotation are very, very good. How do you call off the dogs on a team where players as good as Tyler Thornton and Josh Hairston are third options?

There were actually many gripes in '99 and '2001 about K leaving many of his main guys in too long during a 20-30 point win. You bring about an interesting point in that in this griping it is lost that different sets are being tried with some different combinations. However it has turned people off that at least 3 of the starters might still be on the floor. I do feel that some of these games can get to the point where K starts treating it like a practice in which he still wants his guys on the floor to go all out. It's all about habits. You can't develop good habits giving less than 100%.

I too hope this is a problem we can have this year.

Newton_14

10-24-2010, 10:17 PM

Well, Coach K has spoken about how he never tries to humiliate an opponent. So he clearly thinks about managing a dignified outcome. A lot of it is running different sets where the players are still trying their hardest but are doing new things so it is less than optimal.

This year certainly poses an interesting problem from a sportsmanship perspective. Usually, the way Coach K calls off the dogs is by substituting the final 5 guys in the rotation. They play as hard as they can, but they aren't as good, so it prevents humiliation. This year, though, the last 5 guys in Duke's rotation are very, very good. How do you call off the dogs on a team where players as good as Tyler Thornton and Josh Hairston are third options?

This I agree with. I was not coming at it from a Sportsmanship angle. The OP was implying that the bigs were told to "take it easy" throughout the game, even early on before the score was out of hand. That is what I was disagreeing with mainly. Critic's could easily say K ran the score up last night, but that is not reality. He was using the game as a practice session to work on many different things. He stopped that right around the 3 minute mark and put the walkon's in. All 2 of them. So you are right about not really having a weak lineup to put in this year at the end of blowouts.

Kind of odd that we don't have 3 or 4 more walkon's this year.

ACCBBallFan

10-25-2010, 12:28 AM

I would think the St Augustine coach was happy that his team never gave up. He had 9 guys play double digit minutes in Cameron and 7 who scored at least 7 points. When they get back to Div II competition, they should be very competitive.

Players just subconciously do not defend as well when up 73-25 at half. Second half was 68-43. So even in letdown mode, Duke scored as many points in second half as opponent did in whole game and only 5 less than in first half.

I do think Ryan gets lots of PT and may start, though disagree it would necessarily be minutes from Miles, more likely from Josh who has yet to earn them in the first place but doing gr8 for a frosh.

Ryan in the lineup with Mason/Miles alternating every four minutes spreads the floor better. When Ryan rests, plenty of options with two Plumlees at 4/5 or Josh or Kyle who like the others is 230 plus. So not really small ball other than the size of the SF in that set.

Kyrie - Nolan - Kyle - Ryan - a Plumlee with other Plum, Seth and Dre top 8. Looks like Tyler and Josh can play without hurting team too, just so much talent with more experience.

BigZ

10-25-2010, 02:54 AM

Seth and Dre' combine for the second best back court in the ACC.

ACCBBallFan

10-25-2010, 08:50 AM

Seth and Dre' combine for the second best back court in the ACC.I get your point that they are very good but not as good as Delaney/Hudson and perhaps even with Durand Scott/Malcolm Delaney.

It is too early to tell on Ryan Harrow/Lorenzo Brown or Javi improvement YTY.

There are actually a lot of very good combos in ACC this year that the Duke subs would be on a par with. Depends on how good Dre's handle now is and how well Curry can play PG and how well they both defend.

We know they are both better shooters than anybody in ACC.

The ACC combos in some cases are more a case of experience than greater talent, while in other cases lofty HS ratings, and none of them are paired with Singler at SF either.

Mo Miller / Mfon Udofia / Shumpert pretty even with Curry / Dawkins

Kitchen / Snaer / Dulkys pretty even with Seth / Dre

Stitt/Tanner Smith/Noel Johnson former may be better, latter about the same or worse

Drew / Bullock / Strickland need improvement or to live up to rep but so does Dre

Jackson / Paris former may be better, latter worse

Bowie / Mosley will need to show a lot of growth after only practicing vs. Vazquez / Hayes which is almost as good a preparation as Scheyr - Smith.

UVA especially with Sammy Zeglinski hurt and Wake are very young and will pay their dues at PG/SG.

With every ACC coach saying they want to play fast, shoud be a fun season for fans.

Of course we are talking Duke's second unit here so when you throw in Kyrie - Nolan - kyle - Seth - Dre - Tyler no contest.

Whoebver tries to play uptempo with Duke this year or tries to zone them, does so at their own peril.

MChambers

10-25-2010, 09:06 AM

Whoebver tries to play uptempo with Duke this year or tries to zone them, does so at their own peril.
Of course, Duke's going to force the tempo with its defense, so teams aren't going to have a lot of choice, for the most parat.

Cockabeau

10-25-2010, 09:41 AM

Again I have to disagree. Andre Dawkins at this point in his career is lethal with many weapons around him not necessarily being the focal point of the offense.

The kid simply cannot handle the ball well for a guard yet. But for this team he doesn't have to handle the ball much-all he has to do is shoot and defend. With his shooting abilities alone its going to open up the court even more for our team. WHo are you going to double? WHo are you going to leave to double team? Dre?Kyle?Seth?KI?Nolan?The only way this team will lose is if all five go stone cold from the outside-thats the way i see it anyhow. In any scenario at the very least we will have a chance to win the game even if we play at our worst.

BD80

10-25-2010, 10:05 AM

This I agree with. I was not coming at it from a Sportsmanship angle. The OP was implying that the bigs were told to "take it easy" throughout the game, even early on before the score was out of hand. That is what I was disagreeing with mainly. ...

I think the point was that Coach K coached to play against the opponent's STRENGTHS instead of its weaknesses so as to make it a better challenge for the Devils. Rather than running the offense through the low post where the 6' 10" + post players could have easily scored against the 6' 7" and less front line (or have had a parade to the free throw line), Coach K dialed up offensive schemes that St Auggie was better equipped to defend. This kept the score "down" and gave our backcourt better practice. Frankly, feeding the post against a small front line can promote bad habits - kind of like some high school centers that don't develop solid post moves because they are so much bigger and stronger than the competition.

For the next couple of weeks, the best post defense our "bigs" will encounter will be in practice.

Saratoga2

10-25-2010, 10:05 AM

sagegrouse

10-25-2010, 10:11 AM

How many undefeated teams have there been unless you look at the women's area? This Duke team will lose games. We shouldn't be too worked up when they do. The hope is that it won't be many and that they will play best at the end of the season.

Last year's team got slaughtered by State and Georgetown and lost close games at Wisconsin, GT, and Maryland. I would be astounded if Duke didn't lose 2-3 games under the best of circumstances.

sagegrouse

Lar77

10-25-2010, 10:34 AM

Last year's team got slaughtered by State and Georgetown and lost close games at Wisconsin, GT, and Maryland. I would be astounded if Duke didn't lose 2-3 games under the best of circumstances.

sagegrouse

Several of those games had one thing in common - physical play inside. Our team last year got markedly better from the first Maryland game (after the Georgetown loss) on because of Zoubs emerging as a force. The Gonzaga win also comes to mind when everyone shot horribly, but we still won by a comfortable margin because of physical play.

We will certainly have some "learning experiences" during the year (win or lose), but outside of Michigan State and possibly the CBE, who will teach us the level of physical play that we will need?

MChambers

10-25-2010, 10:47 AM

Several of those games had one thing in common - physical play inside. Our team last year got markedly better from the first Maryland game (after the Georgetown loss) on because of Zoubs emerging as a force. The Gonzaga win also comes to mind when everyone shot horribly, but we still won by a comfortable margin because of physical play.

We will certainly have some "learning experiences" during the year (win or lose), but outside of Michigan State and possibly the CBE, who will teach us the level of physical play that we will need?
Butler is extremely physical. Matt Howard is back. Will be interesting to see how our bigs deal with him.

roywhite

10-25-2010, 10:50 AM

Butler is extremely physical. Matt Howard is back. Will be interesting to see how our bigs deal with him.

Mack and Nored also give them good defense in the backcourt; should be a good test for Kyrie and Nolan, too.

BD80

10-25-2010, 10:50 AM

Butler is extremely physical. Matt Howard is back. Will be interesting to see how our bigs deal with him.

With the way the NFL is cracking down on violent hits, Howard will probably be suspended for the Duke game.

Kedsy

10-25-2010, 11:07 AM

Several of those games had one thing in common - physical play inside.

I completely disagree that physical play inside was the common factor in our losses last year. Almost the opposite -- what all those teams had in common (with the possible exception of Georgia Tech) was an offensive scheme that featured four guys on the perimeter. The spread offenses employed by these opponents made it very difficult for our big guys to rotate over into proper help positions, which was critical for the defensive scheme we used last year.

But that doesn't really matter since we're using an entirely different defensive scheme this year so I don't think there's much you can predict based on last year's results.

But if you really want to know "who will teach us the level of physical play that we will need?" the answer is practically every team we play will at least try to be physical with us because that will probably be the only way to slow us down.

flyingdutchdevil

10-25-2010, 11:25 AM

Devilsfan

10-25-2010, 11:38 AM

I believe Ryan will soon be pushing MP1 for his hold on that starting position. That is if Coach decides to go with a line up of two bigs like last year.

IrishDevil

10-25-2010, 12:07 PM

I completely disagree that physical play inside was the common factor in our losses last year. Almost the opposite -- what all those teams had in common (with the possible exception of Georgia Tech) was an offensive scheme that featured four guys on the perimeter. The spread offenses employed by these opponents made it very difficult for our big guys to rotate over into proper help positions, which was critical for the defensive scheme we used last year.

But that doesn't really matter since we're using an entirely different defensive scheme this year so I don't think there's much you can predict based on last year's results.

But if you really want to know "who will teach us the level of physical play that we will need?" the answer is practically every team we play will at least try to be physical with us because that will probably be the only way to slow us down.

Agreed. State and Wisconsin were probably the best examples of 4-out-1-in offenses, while Monroe was versatile enough for Georgetown to create a very similar effect.

I wonder what might happen to this year's team in a similar situation. On one hand, our frontcourt is less experienced and less seamless in its rotations and team defense. OTOH, we have more mobile bigs that could cover shooting bigs or rotate more quickly once they get the rotations down. Miles or Mason flying in for weakside help blocks is a fun mental image. Miles' four blocks (against a much smaller team, granted) could be a portent of things to come :cool:

thenameisbond

10-25-2010, 12:42 PM

Butler is extremely physical. Matt Howard is back. Will be interesting to see how our bigs deal with him.

I'm sure he will see his share of picks. Kyle, in particular, owes him.

NSDukeFan

10-25-2010, 12:47 PM

Agreed. State and Wisconsin were probably the best examples of 4-out-1-in offenses, while Monroe was versatile enough for Georgetown to create a very similar effect.

I wonder what might happen to this year's team in a similar situation. On one hand, our frontcourt is less experienced and less seamless in its rotations and team defense. OTOH, we have more mobile bigs that could cover shooting bigs or rotate more quickly once they get the rotations down. Miles or Mason flying in for weakside help blocks is a fun mental image. Miles' four blocks (against a much smaller team, granted) could be a portent of things to come :cool:

I agree with you. I would just add that knowing where to be is more important than how quickly you get there. This is why Zoubs could be such an effective help side defender last year though he was not laterally quicker than either Plumlee. (I thought he did move his feet much better last year and was often impressed with his effort in moving his feet quickly to sometimes stay in front of guards when helping out.) I hope that Miles and Mason (and Ryan and Josh) can get a better idea of where to be on rotations so that they can be in much better position and at times come in for the weak-side blocks that are fun to watch. I hope Duke's front-court players will be quick and won't have to hurry.

moonpie23

10-25-2010, 12:54 PM

Matt Howard is back.

pay back
vb (tr, adverb)
1. to retaliate against, to pay someone back for an egregious body check.
2. to give or do (something equivalent) in return for a favour, elbow, etc.

roywhite

10-25-2010, 12:55 PM

Agreed. State and Wisconsin were probably the best examples of 4-out-1-in offenses, while Monroe was versatile enough for Georgetown to create a very similar effect.

I wonder what might happen to this year's team in a similar situation. On one hand, our frontcourt is less experienced and less seamless in its rotations and team defense. OTOH, we have more mobile bigs that could cover shooting bigs or rotate more quickly once they get the rotations down. Miles or Mason flying in for weakside help blocks is a fun mental image. Miles' four blocks (against a much smaller team, granted) could be a portent of things to come :cool:

That is an interesting question; we're feeling very good about the offensive potential on this year's team, and somewhat less certain about how well the defense will fare against good opposition.

IMO, the perimeter defense (which was pretty good last season, especially considering our short rotation of guards) will be even better this season. Looik for more on the ball pressure and more overplays on the passing lanes as Duke tries to push out opposing defenses and force turnovers. If the perimeter defense is better, this will limit penetration.

Agree with you on looking forward to shotblocks by the Plumlees.

sandinmyshoes

10-25-2010, 01:43 PM

What stood out to me more than anything out is our depth. It's a good feeling to go into a season knowing you have guys on the bench who can step up to the job in the event of foul trouble or injuries.

theAlaskanBear

10-25-2010, 01:55 PM

Last year's team got slaughtered by State and Georgetown and lost close games at Wisconsin, GT, and Maryland. I would be astounded if Duke didn't lose 2-3 games under the best of circumstances.

sagegrouse

Undefeated is a pretty unrealistic suggestion, as you pointed out sage. That said, when I look at the ACC, I do wonder who could possibly beat Duke in the conference. Maybe there will be a game where our bigs get in foul trouble and we just get abused inside -- but I have a hard time seeing that because Singler can slide to the four when we need him.

I'm going to say two losses.

No injuries *knock on wood*

wilko

10-25-2010, 02:10 PM

No. We will not lose a game. We are Duke. :rolleyes:

Dude... I know it was said in jest..

Whenever my darling wife says something like: "Its been a while since one of the kids has gotten sick", "seems like cars are holding up well" I have to remind her to zip the lip on those statements and not say them out-loud for fear of jinxing the whole thing... Cuz once she does... something bad happens.

Last years wrist injury to Mason, various bouts of former Duke players getting mono, you name it... then our depth becomes less of a luxury and more of a necessity...

Anything can happen.

davekay1971

10-25-2010, 02:23 PM

I'm going to shy away from any predictions about whether we go undefeated or suffer 1, 2, or 8 losses, or whatever. Suffice it to say that our team is (1) immensely talented, (2) has great veteran leadership, and (3) will have a learning process to go through, like every other team.

We have too many new pieces in the puzzle to not have a learning process, and every learning process involves mistakes and stubbed toes. We'll probably have a few games we win (and maybe a few we lose) where we didn't play as well as we could. Add that to the fact that we play a great non-conference schedule (Butler, MSU (preseason number 2) and possibly K St (preseason number 3)), and we play in a conference with some talent... If we have an off night, if guys forget to focus on the defensive end, if some team just comes in and has a Villanova vs. G'town 1985 kind of night on us...well, you know.

One of the really exciting things about this year, of course, is the mix of talent we have and uncertainty as to how it's all going to come together. I trust Coach K, more than any other coach in college basketball, to figure out how to get the most out of his talent. That may very well mean a national championship, because he's got some talent to work with this year! However, Izzo's no slouch and his got a loaded squad, Ol Roy has a team full of potential NBA talent down the road, Va Tech's got a great backcourt and a chip on their shoulder, and even El Sid has great potential on his roster. I can't wait for the season, because it's going to be exciting. At the end of the day I don't care if it's more like 1991 (7 losses on the road to the title) or 1992 (domination on the road to the title)...I just hope it ends up with me wearing a shirt that says "K > Dean + Roy" :D

SilkyJ

10-25-2010, 02:25 PM

I'm sure he will see his share of picks. Kyle, in particular, owes him.

I found it interesting that at ACC media day Kyle said the pick Howard set wasn't even that bad, jut looked worse than it was (I thought it looked pretty bad).

And Kyle doesn't owe Howard anything, Kyle's the one with the bling :D

Kedsy

10-25-2010, 02:40 PM

That is an interesting question; we're feeling very good about the offensive potential on this year's team, and somewhat less certain about how well the defense will fare against good opposition.

IMO, the perimeter defense (which was pretty good last season, especially considering our short rotation of guards) will be even better this season. Looik for more on the ball pressure and more overplays on the passing lanes as Duke tries to push out opposing defenses and force turnovers. If the perimeter defense is better, this will limit penetration.

Agree with you on looking forward to shotblocks by the Plumlees.

I agree that the bigger uncertainty about this team is its ability to defend a quality opponent.

As far as the question of how well we will defend a spread (4-out, 1-in) offense, I think that while our big man rotation will be important, it will be much less important than last year. Last year, largely because of our perimeter personnel, we sort of funneled opposing ballhandlers toward the middle and let one big man step up while another slid over to help. If the help defender was too far away (e.g., covering Dennis Horner at the 3-point line) he couldn't slide over in time and the result was generally a Tracy Smith slam, or sometimes a Javi Gonzalez layup if the first big stayed home. (Assuming State as the opponent, of course.)

This year, our perimeter defenders will try to harass the opposing ballhandlers and force the opposing offense to start further out than they are comfortable, while also lurking in the passing lanes. Because of our quick perimeter defenders, it will be a lot harder for opposing guards to get into that triple-threat position, which should give our second big more time to rotate over, assuming we don't force a turnover first.

However, it's also true that teams who play a spread offense are often successful with backdoor cuts, and this is where I think this year's Duke team might be a little vulnerable. So, in a sense, making sure our big men "stay home" will be more critical than help rotation. At least compared to last year -- obviously defense is complicated and both facets of interior defense are important.

Cockabeau

10-25-2010, 04:15 PM

Several of those games had one thing in common - physical play inside. Our team last year got markedly better from the first Maryland game (after the Georgetown loss) on because of Zoubs emerging as a force. The Gonzaga win also comes to mind when everyone shot horribly, but we still won by a comfortable margin because of physical play.

We will certainly have some "learning experiences" during the year (win or lose), but outside of Michigan State and possibly the CBE, who will teach us the level of physical play that we will need?

Thats not going to work this year Im afraid. A big man or two dominating inside,ok. We will just bomb away from 3 and trade 3 points for 2.

Jderf

10-25-2010, 11:54 PM

I found it interesting that at ACC media day Kyle said the pick Howard set wasn't even that bad, just looked worse than it was (I thought it looked pretty bad).

Yes, but Kyle also happens to be made of steel, so we can't take his word at face value. Remember in the ACC tournament when he dove straight into the scorers table? I'm pretty sure everyone in the building thought he would require some serious medical attention. But, of course, he just shrugged it off.

flyingdutchdevil

10-26-2010, 06:35 AM

Dude... I know it was said in jest..

Whenever my darling wife says something like: "Its been a while since one of the kids has gotten sick", "seems like cars are holding up well" I have to remind her to zip the lip on those statements and not say them out-loud for fear of jinxing the whole thing... Cuz once she does... something bad happens.

Last years wrist injury to Mason, various bouts of former Duke players getting mono, you name it... then our depth becomes less of a luxury and more of a necessity...

Anything can happen.

I know, I know. Karma will probably lead to a loss or two.

But I really like this team and our schedule. Our NC away games are significantly easier than our NC home games. Also, Duke has historically been awesome in neutral games (Meadowlands, MSG, mini tournaments). We will probably run into trouble a few times during ACC away games, especially at State, UNC, and VT.

Lastly, Nolan said something earlier in the summer that this team will get better and learn through losses rather than wins. I think that's great insight. Unless Kyrie is better than D. Rose, Curry is as good as his brother, the Plumlee brothers transformed into double-double machines, Smith makes another jump like he did between his sophomore and junior season, and Singler is, well, Singler, there will be a loss. A lack of focus, an injury, foul trouble, an off-night - the possibilities are endless for a loss.

At the end of the day, however, I hope we finish with a 10-game winning streak.

Lord Ash

10-26-2010, 06:58 AM

Here is an article in which Nolan made those comments about "good losses." It is a spot-on read.

Link (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2010/08/dukes-nolan-smith-thinks-key-to-repeat-title-is--early-losses-/1)

Jderf

10-26-2010, 07:03 AM

I know, I know. Karma will probably lead to a loss or two.

But I really like this team and our schedule. Our NC away games are significantly easier than our NC home games. Also, Duke has historically been awesome in neutral games (Meadowlands, MSG, mini tournaments). We will probably run into trouble a few times during ACC away games, especially at State, UNC, and VT.

Lastly, Nolan said something earlier in the summer that this team will get better and learn through losses rather than wins. I think that's great insight. Unless Kyrie is better than D. Rose, Curry is as good as his brother, the Plumlee brothers transformed into double-double machines, Smith makes another jump like he did between his sophomore and junior season, and Singler is, well, Singler, there will be a loss. A lack of focus, an injury, foul trouble, an off-night - the possibilities are endless for a loss.

At the end of the day, however, I hope we finish with a 10-game winning streak.

It's not just karma that may lead to a loss. Pure probability will play a much, much bigger factor, along with a substantial dose of realism. By way of illustration, consider the most optimistic hypothetical scenario: Duke is the best team in the land by a wide margin, and enters every single game of the season (let's say forty of them) with an absurd 98% chance of winning. Even if that kind of extreme domination were the case (and I don't think it will be), our odds of going undefeated for 40 games would still be less than 50%.

Dropping your optimism from the figure above even slightly will drastically reduce our odds of going undefeated: a 95% chance of winning each game gives us a 13% chance of going undefeated; 90% (which is much more reasonable, I think) only gives us a 1.5% chance.

For anyone out there who thinks we will (or should) win every game just because we're the best team, I hate to rain on the optimism parade, but it just ain't gonna happen.

Cockabeau

10-26-2010, 08:17 AM

Excluding the NCAA tournament which is a a different ball of wax-Duke should win every single game. Will we? I don't think so. I think it is healthy if we lose a game or two

dukeballboy88

10-26-2010, 08:33 AM

one thing i saw that I like is Kyle sure is shooting the ball well early in the season. I recently read that if Kyle can get his 3 point % to begin with a 4 he will be a lottery pick. I think he can do it with the type of guards we have that can penetrate and get him open looks!

NSDukeFan

10-26-2010, 08:50 AM

Yes, but Kyle also happens to be made of steel, so we can't take his word at face value. Remember in the ACC tournament when he dove straight into the scorers table? I'm pretty sure everyone in the building thought he would require some serious medical attention. But, of course, he just shrugged it off.

I was expecting the scorers table would be in need of some serious medical attention. I think it speaks to that scorers table's mental fortitude that it was able to finish the game.

...

Lastly, Nolan said something earlier in the summer that this team will get better and learn through losses rather than wins. I think that's great insight. Unless Kyrie is better than D. Rose, Curry is as good as his brother, the Plumlee brothers transformed into double-double machines, Smith makes another jump like he did between his sophomore and junior season, and Singler is, well, Singler, there will be a loss. A lack of focus, an injury, foul trouble, an off-night - the possibilities are endless for a loss.

At the end of the day, however, I hope we finish with a 10-game winning streak.

The bolded part is exactly what I am hoping for this year. Could I also add that Kelly shows all the skills the optimists among us are expecting to see this year and dominates from the high post, Dawkins continues to be a lights out shooter who is a solid defender and takes the next step both defensively and as a penetrator to highlight his leaping ability, Hairston does all the little things offensively and defensively that he forces his way into the regular big man rotation, Thornton continues to play with the confidence he has shown thus far and forces his way into the rotation as a defensive disruptor who distributes the ball well and hits open 3-pointers, Casey and Todd play at an equal level to the tired scholarship players they play against at the end of many blow-outs and the coaching staff make all the correct adjustments during games and keep the competition level high in practise so that the team continues to improve every day and peak the last game of the season.

OldPhiKap

10-26-2010, 09:06 AM

Lar77

10-26-2010, 09:26 AM

flyingdutchdevil

10-26-2010, 09:38 AM

Didn't know where to put these so putting them here. From @DanWetzel:

Keep hearing from NBA scouts who've seen Duke practice describe Devils as "scary" "complete" "even better." - 4:01 PM Oct 24th via Mobile Web

These are NBA scouts raving about Duke, not supposedly pro-Coach K media. Trust me these guys don't care, they say what they see - 6:47 PM Oct 24th via Mobile Web

COYS

10-26-2010, 10:10 AM

Sure, we are very talented and stand a great shot when we can dictate our tempo. We cannot do that every game, however. There are plenty of talented teams out there, with different styles and able coaches.

It's too early to tell, yet, but I think this will be the most important issue. Will we be able to bear down and gut out the slugfests, which are bound to happen at some point? What happens when we face a team that plays like our 2010 national champs? I don't think there's a team out there that will be as good as we were last year at grinding out wins in the halfcourt (Butler, perhaps, but without Hayward they've lost an important part of their bite), but nevertheless, I'd be curious to see this year's team battle last year's team. If Scheyer and Nolan take care of the ball, Zoubek owns the offensive glass, Singler cancels out Singler, and Thomas prevents Mason from ever getting comfortable in the high post, the 2010 team will have easily negated all the advantages in quickness and offensive firepower that the 2010-2011 team has. Will the 2011 team be able to force the issue against a team like Duke last season or, if not, will it have the discipline to win the half court battle? This is what I'm most interested in seeing.

Kedsy

10-26-2010, 10:42 AM

It's too early to tell, yet, but I think this will be the most important issue. Will we be able to bear down and gut out the slugfests, which are bound to happen at some point? What happens when we face a team that plays like our 2010 national champs? I don't think there's a team out there that will be as good as we were last year at grinding out wins in the halfcourt (Butler, perhaps, but without Hayward they've lost an important part of their bite), but nevertheless, I'd be curious to see this year's team battle last year's team. If Scheyer and Nolan take care of the ball, Zoubek owns the offensive glass, Singler cancels out Singler, and Thomas prevents Mason from ever getting comfortable in the high post, the 2010 team will have easily negated all the advantages in quickness and offensive firepower that the 2010-2011 team has. Will the 2011 team be able to force the issue against a team like Duke last season or, if not, will it have the discipline to win the half court battle? This is what I'm most interested in seeing.

It's an interesting question, but I think last year's team would struggle to score against this year's team and, even though last year's team was so good on defense, they would have trouble stopping this year's team. Who would guard Kyrie? If '10 Nolan would guard him, who would guard '11 Nolan? At least one of those guys would require a double-team, or alternatively would be getting into the paint a lot. This year's team shoots so well that double-teaming anybody will be problematic, as would letting Kyrie get into the lane unguarded. And if this year's team wanted to, they could go into a halfcourt spread (like NC State or Georgetown) and the 2010 team wouldn't know what to do. Put another way, even though our goal is to run a lot, our halfcourt offense is going to be very, very hard for anybody to stop, so taking us out of our tempo isn't going to be as damaging as one might think.

On the other side of the ball, the 2011 Kyle and Nolan could guard themselves, and Kyrie's quick hands would probably force Jon to half-turn away from the basket while handling the ball, which would help him avoid turnovers but was his least effective stance in controlling the offense. The Plumlees could certainly guard Z and Lance effectively, although they'd probably give up some offensive-rebound-putbacks and/or kickouts. All in all, though, as I said I think the 2010 team would have trouble scoring against this year's team.

I assume we'll lose a game here and there, but I'm not particularly worried about any particular style beating us this year. Other teams are going to have to adapt to us. I assume the adaptation of choice will be to get very physical with us and try to either wear us down that way or take their chances with us at the free throw line (which as crazy as it sounds may be our least efficient offense). It's probably the best chance to beat us, although with our depth I still like our chances in a game like that.

BD80

10-26-2010, 11:09 AM

It's too early to tell, yet, but I think this will be the most important issue. Will we be able to bear down and gut out the slugfests, which are bound to happen at some point? What happens when we face a team that plays like our 2010 national champs? I don't think there's a team out there that will be as good as we were last year at grinding out wins in the halfcourt (Butler, perhaps, but without Hayward they've lost an important part of their bite), but nevertheless, I'd be curious to see this year's team battle last year's team. If Scheyer and Nolan take care of the ball, Zoubek owns the offensive glass, Singler cancels out Singler, and Thomas prevents Mason from ever getting comfortable in the high post, the 2010 team will have easily negated all the advantages in quickness and offensive firepower that the 2010-2011 team has. Will the 2011 team be able to force the issue against a team like Duke last season or, if not, will it have the discipline to win the half court battle? This is what I'm most interested in seeing.

Actually, Howard is the Bulldog that bit the most, and he's back :D

Frankly, the talk of an undefeated season is foolish. Fun, but foolish.

Kyle and Nolan are legitimate National POY candidates, but there will be days when opposing players outplay them. There will be stretches where Kyrie plays like a freshman, there will be stretches where one won't realize that either Plumlee is on the floor even though they are both playing.

Our team defense will be MUCH worse than last year, particulary at the beginning of the year. We could have the best defense in the nation and still be significantly worse than last year. Jon, Lance and Zoubs were 4th year players who knew where to be and how to communicate to the other players to play TEAM defense.

We will play a different type of defense this year by pressuring the ball much farther out. It may not be as "efficient" in terms of points allowed per possession, but it will create offense by way of turnovers and resulting fastbreaks, thus improving our offensive efficiency. It will work against most teams, but not all. There will be teams that can break our pressure. By the end of the year, I hope our team (particularly the Plumlees) learn how to handle the backside of the press until our guards recover, and that we defend in the half-court well enough to win games no matter what our offense does. There is a LONG way to go before we get there, but given the players and coaches we have, I like our chances.

roywhite

10-26-2010, 12:27 PM

.

Kyle and Nolan are legitimate National POY candidates, but there will be days when opposing players outplay them. There will be stretches where Kyrie plays like a freshman, there will be stretches where one won't realize that either Plumlee is on the floor even though they are both playing.

Our team defense will be MUCH worse than last year, particulary at the beginning of the year. We could have the best defense in the nation and still be significantly worse than last year. Jon, Lance and Zoubs were 4th year players who knew where to be and how to communicate to the other players to play TEAM defense.
We will play a different type of defense this year by pressuring the ball much farther out. It may not be as "efficient" in terms of points allowed per possession, but it will create offense by way of turnovers and resulting fastbreaks, thus improving our offensive efficiency. It will work against most teams, but not all. There will be teams that can break our pressure. By the end of the year, I hope our team (particularly the Plumlees) learn how to handle the backside of the press until our guards recover, and that we defend in the half-court well enough to win games no matter what our offense does. There is a LONG way to go before we get there, but given the players and coaches we have, I like our chances.

Don't know if I agree with your assessment of this year's defense. Kyle and Nolan were two very important, versatile defenders and they return. Nolan was a good on-the-ball defender and Kyle was able to guard players that ranged from 6'5" to 6'9" (ask Gordon Heyward about Kyle's defense).

On the perimeter, we are deeper and will be able to play a different style of defense. Kyrie has the tools to be an excellent defender, and generate steals.

Inside, no doubt Lance and Zoubs were good defenders, but the Plumlees reasonably should be more comfortable defensively than they were last year, and give us more shotblocking capabilities on the floor. Pressure on the perimeter and more shotblocking inside can give us a defense as good or better than last year's. A deeper rotation should also provide dividends on defense.

Just my opinion, but I see this as a dominant team overall, on the order of 1992 and 1999. Of course, as we learned in 1999, that doesn't guarantee a championship.

Jderf

10-26-2010, 12:36 PM

Don't know if I agree with your assessment of this year's defense. Kyle and Nolan were two very important, versatile defenders and they return. Nolan was a good on-the-ball defender and Kyle was able to guard players that ranged from 6'5" to 6'9" (ask Gordon Heyward about Kyle's defense).

On the perimeter, we are deeper and will be able to play a different style of defense. Kyrie has the tools to be an excellent defender, and generate steals.

Inside, no doubt Lance and Zoubs were good defenders, but the Plumlees reasonably should be more comfortable defensively than they were last year, and give us more shotblocking capabilities on the floor. Pressure on the perimeter and more shotblocking inside can give us a defense as good or better than last year's. A deeper rotation should also provide dividends on defense.

I agree, somewhat. With the many versatile "pieces" we have, I think this year's team has the potential to be a better defensive team. But we do not yet know if they'll live up to that potential. There's still a chance all the pieces might not "fit together" on defense. On the other hand, last year's team maximized every single ounce of potential available to them.

We won't know for a while how the two different styles of defense would stack up against each other. Really, we'll never fully know. But we may have a better idea come February. Hopefully, this year's squad learns a lesson from last year and really commits themselves to nailing down the principles of the new defense; and I'm sure K knows a few tricks to make sure that happens.

Acymetric

10-26-2010, 12:41 PM

Sure, we are very talented and stand a great shot when we can dictate our tempo. We cannot do that every game, however. There are plenty of talented teams out there, with different styles and able coaches.

Undefeated is not the goal. Undefeated in the NCAA is. I am as excited as everyone about the prospects for this year, but I think it's awful early to annoint this team yet.

I seem to remember that Vegas didn't have a close game in '91 all season. How'd that work out for them? As long as the team grows and progresses -- whether through a tough win or tough loss -- we're on the right track.

I certainly don't see anything wrong with shooting for both? Will we go undefeated? Doubtful, as is the case for every team, but that doesn't mean its impossible. I'll be pulling for an undefeated season for as long as its possible. Doesn't mean I'll be upset if we don't accomplish that (same goes for NCAAs) but I sure want it to happen and argue probability all you want but the fact is this is something that lies somewhere within the realm of possibility...regardless of how far out on the fringe of that possibility it is.

Undefeated seasons are extremely rare (which is why they're so special) but they do happen. I understand people wanting to temper expectations and I'm certainly not predicting an undefeated season but I sure am pulling for one and contrary to what most people on this board seem to think it is possible.

Jderf

10-26-2010, 12:45 PM

I certainly don't see anything wrong with shooting for both? Will we go undefeated? Doubtful, as is the case for every team, but that doesn't mean its impossible. I'll be pulling for an undefeated season for as long as its possible. Doesn't mean I'll be upset if we don't accomplish that (same goes for NCAAs) but I sure want it to happen and argue probability all you want but the fact is this is something that lies somewhere within the realm of possibility...regardless of how far out on the fringe of that possibility it is.

Undefeated seasons are extremely rare (which is why they're so special) but they do happen. I understand people wanting to temper expectations and I'm certainly not predicting an undefeated season but I sure am pulling for one and contrary to what most people on this board seem to think it is possible.

Possible? Yes. Likely? As you say, no. But hey, in every single game this season, I'm going to be rooting for Duke to win. So, I guess in that sense, put me down on the list of people who are cheering for a perfect season this year. Actually, put me down as rooting for a perfect season every year. I can't expect it, but I'd love to see it happen.

NSDukeFan

10-26-2010, 12:51 PM

Actually, Howard is the Bulldog that bit the most, and he's back :D

Frankly, the talk of an undefeated season is foolish. Fun, but foolish.

Kyle and Nolan are legitimate National POY candidates, but there will be days when opposing players outplay them. There will be stretches where Kyrie plays like a freshman, there will be stretches where one won't realize that either Plumlee is on the floor even though they are both playing.

Our team defense will be MUCH worse than last year, particulary at the beginning of the year. We could have the best defense in the nation and still be significantly worse than last year. Jon, Lance and Zoubs were 4th year players who knew where to be and how to communicate to the other players to play TEAM defense.

We will play a different type of defense this year by pressuring the ball much farther out. It may not be as "efficient" in terms of points allowed per possession, but it will create offense by way of turnovers and resulting fastbreaks, thus improving our offensive efficiency. It will work against most teams, but not all. There will be teams that can break our pressure. By the end of the year, I hope our team (particularly the Plumlees) learn how to handle the backside of the press until our guards recover, and that we defend in the half-court well enough to win games no matter what our offense does. There is a LONG way to go before we get there, but given the players and coaches we have, I like our chances.

Good, realistic post. I agree with Acymetric that I will be hoping for an undefeated season for as long as possible as well as for an NCAA title, neither of which are likely. The bolded part is one thing I enjoyed about last year's team. The team had some terrible shooting games that they won and many off shooting games by at least one of the big 3 that the team still won because Zoubs got all the rebounds so they had more chances to shoot and they defended well enough that the team always had a chance. And, it certainly helps that at the ends of games, the team didn't turn the ball over and always used a lot of the clock when they had a lead and usually got good shots as well.

Indoor66

10-26-2010, 12:51 PM

Vincetaylor

10-26-2010, 01:11 PM

Don't know if I agree with your assessment of this year's defense. Kyle and Nolan were two very important, versatile defenders and they return. Nolan was a good on-the-ball defender and Kyle was able to guard players that ranged from 6'5" to 6'9" (ask Gordon Heyward about Kyle's defense).

On the perimeter, we are deeper and will be able to play a different style of defense. Kyrie has the tools to be an excellent defender, and generate steals.

Inside, no doubt Lance and Zoubs were good defenders, but the Plumlees reasonably should be more comfortable defensively than they were last year, and give us more shotblocking capabilities on the floor. Pressure on the perimeter and more shotblocking inside can give us a defense as good or better than last year's. A deeper rotation should also provide dividends on defense.

Just my opinion, but I see this as a dominant team overall, on the order of 1992 and 1999. Of course, as we learned in 1999, that doesn't guarantee a championship.

I agree. I think this team will be every bit as dominant as the 1992 and 1999 teams. Mainly because we are that much better than the field, with the possible exception of MSU(ie. UConn '99). I expect a lot of games over 100 points and a lot of total blowouts. I can't wait for Duke-MSU in Cameron. Have we had a bigger non-conference home game since Michigan in 1993? I personally can't remember one.

OldPhiKap

10-26-2010, 01:13 PM

Or Duke in 1999....

Good point. (unfortunately).

BD80

10-26-2010, 01:39 PM

... Inside, no doubt Lance and Zoubs were good defenders, but the Plumlees reasonably should be more comfortable defensively than they were last year, and give us more shotblocking capabilities on the floor. Pressure on the perimeter and more shotblocking inside can give us a defense as good or better than last year's. A deeper rotation should also provide dividends on defense. ...

I really don't think it will be our shotblocking that will give us a good defense. In fact, I submit that our shotblocking is what might prevent us from having a great defense. The Plumlees each leave their feet too quickly on D looking for the block and neither consistently moves his feet quickly enough to gain position to prevent ball penetration - each tending to loop behind the driver looking for the block from behind. I think they will each be better defenders if their shotblocks per minute declines, meaning they would more often be in better defensive position, and less fouls. I freely admit that they each were getting better at moving their feet last year, and have the potential to play great team defense. Positioning will be more important than shot-blocking.

OldPhiKap

10-26-2010, 02:00 PM

I really don't think it will be our shotblocking that will give us a good defense. In fact, I submit that our shotblocking is what might prevent us from having a great defense. The Plumlees each leave their feet too quickly on D looking for the block and neither consistently moves his feet quickly enough to gain position to prevent ball penetration - each tending to loop behind the driver looking for the block from behind. I think they will each be better defenders if their shotblocks per minute declines, meaning they would more often be in better defensive position, and less fouls. I freely admit that they each were getting better at moving their feet last year, and have the potential to play great team defense. Positioning will be more important than shot-blocking.

I believe our defense will be more traditional (for Duke) -- on-ball pressure at the point, overplay the passing lanes, step in on the interior if beat.

I am more interested in how many charges the bigs take than how many they block.