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View Full Version : MBB: Duke vs. St. Aug's Pre-Game and In-Game Thread



airowe
10-22-2010, 12:18 PM
Here we go again! Almost 7 months ago we all released one set of cheeks and raised another as Gordon Hayward's surprisingly accurate 3/4 court heave caromed off the left side of the rim and The Big 3 and Crew were crowned National Champions for Coach K's fourth time.

Kicking off "The Drive For Five", Duke takes on local squad St. Augustine's in their first exhibition game tomorrow night at 7 PM. While I'm sure we'll see a few lineup combinations during the game, the starters project to be Kyrie, Nolan, Kyle, Mason, and Miles.

I'm excited to see the 1-2 Punch together in the back court for the first time.

Limited options for viewing/listening are available.

Viewing:

Online at GoDuke.com with Inside Access

Listening:

Locally on 620AM
Online at ESPNTriangle.com.

Let's get this party started!

BD80
10-22-2010, 12:28 PM
here we go!!!!!

moonpie23
10-22-2010, 12:42 PM
i am totally ready for another wild ride.....


GO DUKE!!!!

Lord Ash
10-22-2010, 12:58 PM
Oh boy, here we go! Cannot BELIEVE the season is here, and the ball is about to go up against an opposing team! Can't WAIT to see Nolan shifty his way past numerous defenders and scoring with his nifty little midrange, Kyle banging his way down low and then taking his man outside, Kyrie flitting right past multiple defenders and dropping it to a Plumbro for a slam, Ryan dribbling around his man and hitting a long three, Seth and Andre raining away from outside, Tyler hounding opposing points and dropping beautiful passes off, Josh scoring on neat up-and-unders... cannot WAIT.

Kedsy
10-22-2010, 01:03 PM
...Kyrie flitting right past multiple defenders and dropping it to a Plumbro for a slam...

Not meaning to pick on you (or any one person), but I kind of feel bad for Miles and Mason that people rarely seem to talk about them as two distinct individuals.

MartyClark
10-22-2010, 01:20 PM
I am ready for this game!

Can anyone provide information about our opponent? Are they a Division II team? Any good players?

Bob Green
10-22-2010, 01:28 PM
....I kind of feel bad for Miles and Mason that people rarely seem to talk about them as two distinct individuals.

Especially considering the different skill sets they bring onto the court. Miles is tough low post player who has provided glimpses of a solid jump hook and midrange jumper, while Mason is more of a gazelle who likes to get out and run the floor. Both brothers can slam home a dunk but they're two distinctively different players when all attributes are examined.

I'm looking forward to seeing them play together to complement the tremendous amount of perimeter talent Duke can place on the court. It's time for hoops and I'm ready!

BD80
10-22-2010, 01:32 PM
Not meaning to pick on you (or any one person), but I kind of feel bad for Miles and Mason that people rarely seem to talk about them as two distinct individuals.

Maybe each of them will distinguish himself with his play this year.

To date their similarities have far outweighed their differences.

Bob Green
10-22-2010, 01:37 PM
Maybe each of them will distinguish himself with his play this year.

To date their similarities have far outweighed their differences.

I'd appreciate you expounding on this thought as I don't see a lot of similarities. Miles Plumlee had a very solid season last year starting 24 games while Mason was slowed by a preseason injury and seemed to never quite get fully on track. If you have a chance, I encourage you to read the Duke Preview by Al Featherston in the Maple Street Press Blue Devil Tip-Off magazine. Al has some really nice comments about Miles, his confidence as a player, and his overall contributions.

noyac
10-22-2010, 01:57 PM
Not meaning to pick on you (or any one person), but I kind of feel bad for Miles and Mason that people rarely seem to talk about them as two distinct individuals.

I think the reason for that is because no one knows for sure what the Plumbros are going to bring to the table due to the limited playing time last season. I am not saying they didn't play well last season but coming off the bench and getting in the flow of the game is very different from starting.

The Plumbros have a ton of potential for this season but the "two distinct inviduals" have already shown how good they are going to be this season through their play last season.

gam7
10-22-2010, 02:04 PM
Not meaning to pick on you (or any one person), but I kind of feel bad for Miles and Mason that people rarely seem to talk about them as two distinct individuals.

Well, I think Mason is a clone to Miles in every way, except that he is only 7/8 Miles' size. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlCIRXVJkv4

timmy c
10-22-2010, 02:40 PM
I am ready for this game!

Can anyone provide information about our opponent? Are they a Division II team? Any good players?

The St. Augustine Falcons are a DII squad. They had a successful season last year, but lost their top two scorers and the head coach, who is now holding an assistant coaching postion at division I Old Dominion in Virginia.

Augustine's current roster:
http://www.saintaugfalcons.com/roster.aspx?path=mbball

juise
10-22-2010, 02:57 PM
Not meaning to pick on you (or any one person), but I kind of feel bad for Miles and Mason that people rarely seem to talk about them as two distinct individuals.

Do you include K in "people?" Every time I have seen him talking about the things that excite him about this team, it seems like he says that the Plumlee brothers are poised for a breakout year. I don't hear him talk about them individually very often, though I agree that they each have some unique skills.

Kedsy
10-22-2010, 03:13 PM
I think the reason for that is because no one knows for sure what the Plumbros are going to bring to the table due to the limited playing time last season. I am not saying they didn't play well last season but coming off the bench and getting in the flow of the game is very different from starting.

Well, this sort of illustrates my point. Miles started most of the games (24 of 40) and Mason only started one.

noyac
10-22-2010, 03:25 PM
Well, this sort of illustrates my point. Miles started most of the games (24 of 40) and Mason only started one.

Yes but Miles only played 16 min per game and Mason 14 min per game. I expect this year they will see above 20 min per game.

My point was the media is going to focus on the sure things like Nolan and Kyle (especially in the preseason) and someone else pointed out Coach K mentions the Plumbros whenever he can saying that this can be their breakout year.

Everyone knows what to expect from Kyle and Nolan but other than those close to Duke the Plumbros are unknowns due to the focus the media placed on Zoubs and Lance towards the end of last season.

MChambers
10-22-2010, 03:28 PM
Do you include K in "people?" Every time I have seen him talking about the things that excite him about this team, it seems like he says that the Plumlee brothers are poised for a breakout year. I don't hear him talk about them individually very often, though I agree that they each have some unique skills.

Coach K is superhuman!

Olympic Fan
10-22-2010, 03:43 PM
I'm always hungry for the first exhibition, just like I was hungry for the scrimmage at the CTC.

That was a chance to get a first look at the new guys and get maybe a taste of how the returning guys have grown/changed.

This one will give us a quick peek at how Coach K will set up his rotation. We can be pretty sure that Kyle and Nolan will start, along with Kyrie and the Plumlee brothers (not to lump them together, but just as a shorthand ... which I've already blown by typing out this long explanation!)

Okay, after that, what?

I expect Seth Curry to get the first call in the backcourt, then Ryan Kelly up front and Andre on the wing.

While the order of insertion and the starting lineup will change, I'm pretty confident that those eight guys will be the heart of the rotation this year. The interesting thing is to see how (and how much) Coach K uses Josh and Tyler. I'm sure both get a long look early -- it's up to them to force him to use them when the games start to matter.

I really want to see if the Josh we saw in the second half of CTC is for real or not. I want to see if Tyler can offer something (defense?) that Nolan/Kyrie/Seth don't. I want to see how many minutes Kyle gets at the three and how much time he spends up front at the four?

K said something interesting after the CTC scrimmage. He was talking about letting his players try things early -- I took that to mean that he encourages them to try to show him they can do things. I think that explains some of Mason's awkward one-on-one moves or some long-range shooting from the Plumlees. They probably get a month or so to show they can do such things effectively, then K steps in and limits them to what works.

A lot of learn ... and lot to watch for ... plus, it's a pleasure any time we get to see these guys on the court. One of the great things about being a Duke fan is that you know that even in a game like this -- an exhibition against a mid-range D2 school -- we'll see maximum effort and good discipline.

It's worth missing the UNC-Miami football game to watch (but Go Canes!).

Tim1515
10-22-2010, 03:43 PM
well this thread got off track fast.

I expect a Duke win

BD80
10-22-2010, 04:28 PM
I'd appreciate you expounding on this thought as I don't see a lot of similarities. Miles Plumlee had a very solid season last year starting 24 games while Mason was slowed by a preseason injury and seemed to never quite get fully on track. If you have a chance, I encourage you to read the Duke Preview by Al Featherston in the Maple Street Press Blue Devil Tip-Off magazine. Al has some really nice comments about Miles, his confidence as a player, and his overall contributions.

In virtually every category you care to name, Miles and Mason are more like each other than either is to any other player on the team. They aren't the Wear twins, but a casual observer would have trouble distinguishing them on the court by their play so far. Neither rebounds like Zoub or plays defense like Lance, or has the court vision or weak base (last year) of Ryan - they are more like each other.

Each Plumlee has a tendency to reach on defense, to overcommit with his feet, leaves his feet early on a pump fake, and tries to block too many shots. Each has limited post moves, is an energenic rebounder, and runs the floor well.

Many of their similarities are due to their youth, their common experiences and their common lack of playing time.

My point is that neither has yet greatly distinguished himself on the court. Neither had Z or Lance before their senior years. Miles and Mason EACH have the opportunity to distinguish themselves this year. Coach K expects a marked improvement from each this year. I find it amusing that many of the posters that were trumpeting Mile and particularly Mason last year are predicting a meagre 20-some minutes per for each, when we only have one substitute in the post and he was a seldom used bench warmer last year. I think they will each be on the court as much as their foul totals will permit.

I look forward to Miles and Mason each taking a big step this year and compelling us to describe their achievements individually.

devil84
10-22-2010, 04:50 PM
Not meaning to pick on you (or any one person), but I kind of feel bad for Miles and Mason that people rarely seem to talk about them as two distinct individuals.

Not picking on Kedsy (or any one person here), either. :) I agree with this statement. However, like many have said, they have yet to really distinguish their separate skill sets. Let's face it, Zoubek rightly garnered the lion's share of the big man talk last year. There was Z and those other big guys once he broke out.

One thing I think could be really cool is that these two (and perhaps next year, three) combined brothers bring is FAR more years of playing together in the driveway than could usually ever be accomplished by two unrelated teammates. And we may find that the Plumlees (Plumlii, Plumbros, etc.) have complimentary skill sets and inter-brother communication skills that make the sum of the brothers greater than the parts. I'm hoping that by the end of the year, we're talking about Miles' and Mason's differing skill sets, but the combo of the two is also worthy of its own discussion.

I'm not feeling too bad for them yet. It's their time to shine now. Being known as one entity may also be a bit of bulletin board fodder to help motivate them to find their identities.

Kedsy
10-22-2010, 04:52 PM
My point is that neither has yet greatly distinguished himself on the court. Neither had Z or Lance before their senior years.

True, but nobody lumped Z and Lance together as if they were indistinguishable.


I find it amusing that many of the posters that were trumpeting Mile and particularly Mason last year are predicting a meagre 20-some minutes per for each, when we only have one substitute in the post and he was a seldom used bench warmer last year. I think they will each be on the court as much as their foul totals will permit.

People are predicting 20-some minutes for Miles and Mason because historically that's what good but not superstar big men tend to play for Coach K:

Freshman Danny Ferry: 22.8
Senior Jay Bilas: 20.4
Senior Alaa Abdelnaby: 24.9
Freshman Elton Brand: 23.5
(Even Sophomore Elton Brand, national player of the year, only played 29.3)
Freshman Carlos Boozer: 23.7
Sophomore Carlos Boozer: 25.6
(Even Junior Carlos Boozer only played 28.4)
Freshman Shelden Williams: 19.2
Sophomore Shelden Williams: 26.0

So, especially considering the fast pace we intend to play, I personally don't expect any of Mason, Miles, or Ryan to top 25 minutes per game.

Bob Green
10-22-2010, 06:45 PM
In virtually every category you care to name, Miles and Mason are more like each other than either is to any other player on the team. They aren't the Wear twins, but a casual observer would have trouble distinguishing them on the court by their play so far.

I believe Miles and Mason are distinctly different players and will offer this quote, from assistant coach Chris Collins, to backup my opinion: "Miles is more physical than Mason, He's more of a true big man...He's an elite athlete...He can be a double-double guy, there's no question." Those are strong words.


I think they will each be on the court as much as their foul totals will permit.

I agree. We need both Miles and Mason (as well as Ryan Kelly) to take huge steps forward this season and the first step is increased playing time.


I look forward to Miles and Mason each taking a big step this year and compelling us to describe their achievements individually.

Once again, I agree. With Zoubek and Thomas lost to graduation, it is time for Miles and Mason to blossom.

BD80
10-22-2010, 06:51 PM
True, but nobody lumped Z and Lance together as if they were indistinguishable.



People are predicting 20-some minutes for Miles and Mason because historically that's what good but not superstar big men tend to play for Coach K:

Freshman Danny Ferry: 22.8
Senior Jay Bilas: 20.4
Senior Alaa Abdelnaby: 24.9
Freshman Elton Brand: 23.5
(Even Sophomore Elton Brand, national player of the year, only played 29.3)
Freshman Carlos Boozer: 23.7
Sophomore Carlos Boozer: 25.6
(Even Junior Carlos Boozer only played 28.4)
Freshman Shelden Williams: 19.2
Sophomore Shelden Williams: 26.0

So, especially considering the fast pace we intend to play, I personally don't expect any of Mason, Miles, or Ryan to top 25 minutes per game.

Ah, but the REST of the story:

When Danny Ferry played 22.8 mpg and Jay Bilas played 20.4 mpg ((1985-6), we also had Mark Alarie 29.8 mpg, Weldon Williams 6.1 mpg and Marty Nessley 5.4 mpg. Only Johnny Dawkins and Tommy Amaker (30.2 mpg) averaged more than 30 mpg. IIRC there was an injury that factored into minutes played.

When Ala Abdelnaby played 24.9 mpg (1989-90), we also had Robert Brickey 26.4 mpg, Christian Laettner 29.9 mpg, Greg Koubek 15.1 mpg, Clay Buckley 6.6 mpg and Crawford Palmer 6.8 mpg). Only Phil Henderson and Frosh Bobby Hurley averaged more than 30 mpg, and NINE players averaged more than 10 mpg.

Freshman Brand (1997-8) played with Roshown McLeod 23.7 mpg (ACC 1st team?), Carrawell 22.2 mpg, Battier 24.6 mpg, as well as Burgess and Domzalski totalling 22.5 mpg. TEN players averaged 9.9 mpg or better. IIRC this was the year Elton broke his foot, limiting him to just 21 games and 18 starts, and limited his play in his return (lowering his mpg).

Freshman Boozer (1999-2000) played with Battier, Carrawell and JWill, who each averaged OVER 34 mpg, Nate James 28.5 mpg, Mike Dunleavy 24.1 mpg. as well as Horvath, Christensen and Sanders who totalled 23.7 mpg. Carrawell and Nate both played the post in many situations.

IIRC Sophmore Boozer (2000-2001) broke his foot which limited his games and then his minutes when he did return, which gave us Reggie Love at 6.2 mpg in 21 games. We often had Dunleavy 29.2 mpg or James 27.8 mpg defending in the post along with Shane 34.9 mpg. We also had Casey and Matt contributing another 20 mpg total.

Freshman/Sophmore Shelden (2002-4) played when we primarily went with 3 guards: JJ 30.7/31.1 mpg, Ewing 27.9/30.6 mpg, and Duhon 36.0/35.4 mpg backed up by Dockery 10.5/15.4 mpg (105.1/112.5 of 120 perimeter mpg). Dahntay 30.7 mpg and then Deng 31.1 were the primary 4s, and Shelden 19.2/26.0 mpg and Shav 13.5/19.2 mpg handled the post (with Sanders and Horvath adding 31.3 mpg in 2002-3 and then Horvath at 6.4 mpg).

My point is that Miles and Mason SHOULD be above the 20-24 mpg plateau, they should be at the 28 mpg plus. There is little on the bench behind them. No disrespect to Ryan, I LOVE his court vision and understanding of the game, but he will have to step up big time to get near the 20 mpg range, which would still leave us 60 mpg in the post.

Frankly, I still think that we will see Kyle defending the post for stretches, primarily because I think it will be a while before Miles and Mason develop enough defensively to consistently stay in games for 25 min + without fouling out. By the end of the year? Hopefully. With Ryan taking any and all minutes left over. But we won't see Coach K limiting the MPs PT for any reason other than foul trouble.

Lord Ash
10-22-2010, 06:56 PM
I think we are maybe getting a little carried away with the "this is terrible, too many people are clumping the Plumlees together!"

Mason and Miles are both about the same height, both athletic, both good at blocking shots, both still need to improve their hands and defensive positioning, both threw down reverse two handed slams last year, both will throw down a LOT of alley-oops this year from Kyrie, and both are being relied on to prove us with good post play. Plus, we have only seen Mason for a single season, and Miles only for two, so both have had somewhat limited exposure to Duke fans.

Oh; and they have the same name!

So, all things considered, I think it is pretty natural for folks to sometimes refer to them as "The Plumlees," as I am sure we would if we had two other guys who had similar games, played the same position, had somewhat similar expectations and yeah, had the same name. Let's not get too upset by it.

Anyway... so yeah, I am SO looking forward to the first game! Unfortunately I will be at a stupid wedding, so have to wait until Sunday to watch the game! Hopefully no camera shots of the rafters this time!:)

Bob Green
10-22-2010, 07:12 PM
I think we are maybe getting a little carried away with the "this is terrible, too many people are clumping the Plumlees together!"

Well, we have to talk about something. And no one has said "this is terrible..." Moreover, the topic has produced some interesting discussion. Basketball season is upon us and we are all warming up to engage in some serious discourse.

DukeBlueNV
10-22-2010, 07:48 PM
anyone listening/watching the game want to give us some updates???

EDIT: Whoops just realized the game is tom... *facepalm*

Newton_14
10-22-2010, 08:02 PM
I got my tickets in hand and ready to go! Looking forward to seeing the guys in action and see all the different line up combinations K rolls out. I get excited just thinking about all the options. We can go big, small, or in between and have superior talent on the floor in all 3 sizes without sacrificing speed. Ryan looks to be the slowest guy on the team and even he is pretty good at running the floor.

As for MP1 and MP2, count me in with Kedsy and Bob. They are different players in my view. They do have similarities for sure, but Mason is much more of a facilitator/playmaker/passer while Miles is more of a finisher/scorer. They are similar on defense, but Miles' progression is a good bit ahead of Mason's right now, especially on defense. I think they will both step up and improve their games this year. We have 4 good players in the post with those 2 guys and Ryan and Josh, and Kyle can certainly play there for stretches if needed.

Plus, with the amount of attention our perimeter is going to demand this year, our post guys will have much less pressure which should help all of them play better. Going to be a heck of a year.

And where the heck is Jumbo?? Phase 0 is way overdue!! Someone find him please!

NSDukeFan
10-22-2010, 08:28 PM
Ah, but the REST of the story:

When Danny Ferry played 22.8 mpg and Jay Bilas played 20.4 mpg ((1985-6), we also had Mark Alarie 29.8 mpg, Weldon Williams 6.1 mpg and Marty Nessley 5.4 mpg. Only Johnny Dawkins and Tommy Amaker (30.2 mpg) averaged more than 30 mpg. IIRC there was an injury that factored into minutes played.

When Ala Abdelnaby played 24.9 mpg (1989-90), we also had Robert Brickey 26.4 mpg, Christian Laettner 29.9 mpg, Greg Koubek 15.1 mpg, Clay Buckley 6.6 mpg and Crawford Palmer 6.8 mpg). Only Phil Henderson and Frosh Bobby Hurley averaged more than 30 mpg, and NINE players averaged more than 10 mpg.

Freshman Brand (1997-8) played with Roshown McLeod 23.7 mpg (ACC 1st team?), Carrawell 22.2 mpg, Battier 24.6 mpg, as well as Burgess and Domzalski totalling 22.5 mpg. TEN players averaged 9.9 mpg or better. IIRC this was the year Elton broke his foot, limiting him to just 21 games and 18 starts, and limited his play in his return (lowering his mpg).

Freshman Boozer (1999-2000) played with Battier, Carrawell and JWill, who each averaged OVER 34 mpg, Nate James 28.5 mpg, Mike Dunleavy 24.1 mpg. as well as Horvath, Christensen and Sanders who totalled 23.7 mpg. Carrawell and Nate both played the post in many situations.

IIRC Sophmore Boozer (2000-2001) broke his foot which limited his games and then his minutes when he did return, which gave us Reggie Love at 6.2 mpg in 21 games. We often had Dunleavy 29.2 mpg or James 27.8 mpg defending in the post along with Shane 34.9 mpg. We also had Casey and Matt contributing another 20 mpg total.

Freshman/Sophmore Shelden (2002-4) played when we primarily went with 3 guards: JJ 30.7/31.1 mpg, Ewing 27.9/30.6 mpg, and Duhon 36.0/35.4 mpg backed up by Dockery 10.5/15.4 mpg (105.1/112.5 of 120 perimeter mpg). Dahntay 30.7 mpg and then Deng 31.1 were the primary 4s, and Shelden 19.2/26.0 mpg and Shav 13.5/19.2 mpg handled the post (with Sanders and Horvath adding 31.3 mpg in 2002-3 and then Horvath at 6.4 mpg).

My point is that Miles and Mason SHOULD be above the 20-24 mpg plateau, they should be at the 28 mpg plus. There is little on the bench behind them. No disrespect to Ryan, I LOVE his court vision and understanding of the game, but he will have to step up big time to get near the 20 mpg range, which would still leave us 60 mpg in the post.

Frankly, I still think that we will see Kyle defending the post for stretches, primarily because I think it will be a while before Miles and Mason develop enough defensively to consistently stay in games for 25 min + without fouling out. By the end of the year? Hopefully. With Ryan taking any and all minutes left over. But we won't see Coach K limiting the MPs PT for any reason other than foul trouble.

Thank you and Kedsy for the research on these posts. This is why I find I learn a lot about Duke basketball history on this board. It is exciting that we are beginning to be able to talk about what we are seeing on the court this year.

My expectations for minutes per game for Mason and Miles are very similar (another reason people may lump them together.) I expect they will both average 22-25 mpg. I was noticing in your very good post (BD80) that in the cases where you were telling the rest of the story (as Paul Harvey would have said) about the low number of minutes from some of Duke's big men of years gone by, depth was a major contributor. This is the reason that I don't expect Miles or Mason to play a huge number of minutes. I have great expectations for Ryan and am hoping to see him play 18-20 minutes, am cautiously optimistic that Josh may crack the rotation for a few minutes and expect Kyle to be the second tallest player on the floor for a few minutes a game since the team has great back court depth.

I recognize that I, like many others, am a fan of everyone on the team and want to see everyone play and succeed in games, while K and the coaches can note the improvement in practice and play the players who give the team the best chance to win. He's had some success that way.

P.S. I would also really enjoy a Phase 0 report at any time.

airowe
10-22-2010, 09:17 PM
But we won't see Coach K limiting the MPs PT for any reason other than foul trouble.

Great post BD80, but we will see Ryan take part of either Plumlees' playing time if they falter at all. I'd be willing to bet good money that Ryan averages closer to 20 mpg than 10.

You'll see Kyle get around 7 or 8 mpg at the 4 and Josh will clock his 5 or so. This leaves Miles and Mason to be right in that 22 mpg range.

BD80
10-22-2010, 09:42 PM
Great post BD80, but we will see Ryan take part of either Plumlees' playing time if they falter at all. I'd be willing to bet good money that Ryan averages closer to 20 mpg than 10.

You'll see Kyle get around 7 or 8 mpg at the 4 and Josh will clock his 5 or so. This leaves Miles and Mason to be right in that 22 mpg range.

Here is where stats can be so misleading. If you look at the team stats, the average mpg for the roster for any year will total MORE than 40.0 mpg. Josh will be a great example. Josh will get 4 -10 minutes in early games, and will not play in many games, and thus average 5 mpg IN GAMES HE PLAYS. He won't average 5 mpg over the entire season.

I tend to agree with you on Ryan. If he has added the strength he needs to hold his position in the post, he could earn plenty of PT. I think he sees the floor far better than Miles and Mason, and has much better recognition and anticipation. Our defense does not depend on outstanding athletes as much as athletes standing out in the correct place as the entire team adjusts to the movement of the ball. From what I have seen, Ryan could do a better job of playing team defense, which equals PT.

Newton_14
10-22-2010, 10:03 PM
Here is where stats can be so misleading. If you look at the team stats, the average mpg for the roster for any year will total MORE than 40.0 mpg. Josh will be a great example. Josh will get 4 -10 minutes in early games, and will not play in many games, and thus average 5 mpg IN GAMES HE PLAYS. He won't average 5 mpg over the entire season.

I tend to agree with you on Ryan. If he has added the strength he needs to hold his position in the post, he could earn plenty of PT. I think he sees the floor far better than Miles and Mason, and has much better recognition and anticipation. Our defense does not depend on outstanding athletes as much as athletes standing out in the correct place as the entire team adjusts to the movement of the ball. From what I have seen, Ryan could do a better job of playing team defense, which equals PT.

I would not be so quick to relegate Josh to a bunch of DNP's. It is too early to judge how any of the underclassmen will perform. Josh has a good skillset and could surprise. I would take a wait and see approach on both Josh and Tyler. The only problem with Tyler is there are a ton of capable guards on this team making it very difficult for him to garner many minutes this season.

With Josh though, there is more opportunity. Both he and Ryan will have ample opportunity to play if they are capable of contributing. Like Airowe, I have zero doubts that Ryan will play 15+ minutes this season. As for Josh, while he may end up with a bunch of DNP's, he may also prove to be a solid big off the bench and appear in every game. I am anxious to see how he looks in these first 10 games or so. Please note I am not saying you are wrong necessarily with your projection, just saying there is a chance Josh is more ready than some believe. It will ultimately come down to how well he can defend. That moreso than anything else will get him time on the floor.

mapei
10-22-2010, 10:37 PM
I think Miles's and Mason's differences outweigh their similarities. Different looks, different body types, different skill levels last year (Miles was far better IMO), different positions, different playing styles. If I didn't know they were brothers, I would be surprised to learn it.

Duke usually wins these exhibitions by 40+ points, or so it seems. I expect it will happen again.

mattman91
10-23-2010, 11:15 AM
We could start Tyler, Casey, Josh, Ryan, and Todd and win by 40.

ACCBBallFan
10-23-2010, 11:20 AM
I think Miles's and Mason's differences outweigh their similarities. Different looks, different body types, different skill levels last year (Miles was far better IMO), different positions, different playing styles. If I didn't know they were brothers, I would be surprised to learn it.

Duke usually wins these exhibitions by 40+ points, or so it seems. I expect it will happen again.

Yes, I am sure posters will make more conclusions off this battle than is warranted, kind of like NCCU Pro-Am.

Duke's smallest bigs are bigger than St. Augustine's biggest guy, and of course Duke's guards fare well when compared to any college roster.

http://www.saintaugfalcons.com/roster.aspx?path=mbball

Kedsy
10-23-2010, 03:53 PM
Ah, but the REST of the story:

* * *

My point is that Miles and Mason SHOULD be above the 20-24 mpg plateau, they should be at the 28 mpg plus. There is little on the bench behind them. No disrespect to Ryan, I LOVE his court vision and understanding of the game, but he will have to step up big time to get near the 20 mpg range, which would still leave us 60 mpg in the post.


Well, BD, I don't think your conclusion necessarily follows from your examples, so here's my version of "the REST of the story" for 2010-11:

It would be hard to envision Kyle playing fewer than 32 mpg, or Nolan fewer than 30;

I think we can expect Kyrie to be playing in the 28 mpg, and Seth around 23 mpg (that's 113 if you're adding at home);

Ryan should get at least 17 or 18 mpg and Andre 15 or 16 (although I think both could/should see more time than that), so let's say 33 between them (146 total);

It's almost not possible for Josh to get fewer than 3 mpg or Tyler fewer than 1 mpg (even counting DNPs as 0).

Which leaves 50 minutes per game for Miles and Mason. That's 25 per Plumlee per game and to me that looks pretty much like a ceiling. If you still think they'll be seeing 28+, find me six minutes we can take from my estimates. On the contrary, I think several of my estimates are low. Kyle could end up seeing 34 mpg, Andre should be able to earn 18+ mpg and Josh and Tyler could easily see 8 or 10 mpg (combined) instead of the 4 I've allotted them. Just putting them at 8 mpg combined knocks the Plumlees down to 23 apiece, which to me sounds about right (although it's possible they'll split the 46 minutes differently, say 25 and 21).

Obviously these are all wild guesses, and I haven't taken potential injuries into account, but I think it's very unlikely that either Miles or Mason averages 28+ minutes per game this season.

uh_no
10-23-2010, 05:25 PM
Well, BD, I don't think your conclusion necessarily follows from your examples, so here's my version of "the REST of the story" for 2010-11:

It would be hard to envision Kyle playing fewer than 32 mpg, or Nolan fewer than 30;

I think we can expect Kyrie to be playing in the 28 mpg, and Seth around 23 mpg (that's 113 if you're adding at home);

Ryan should get at least 17 or 18 mpg and Andre 15 or 16 (although I think both could/should see more time than that), so let's say 33 between them (146 total);

It's almost not possible for Josh to get fewer than 3 mpg or Tyler fewer than 1 mpg (even counting DNPs as 0).

Which leaves 50 minutes per game for Miles and Mason. That's 25 per Plumlee per game and to me that looks pretty much like a ceiling. If you still think they'll be seeing 28+, find me six minutes we can take from my estimates. On the contrary, I think several of my estimates are low. Kyle could end up seeing 34 mpg, Andre should be able to earn 18+ mpg and Josh and Tyler could easily see 8 or 10 mpg (combined) instead of the 4 I've allotted them. Just putting them at 8 mpg combined knocks the Plumlees down to 23 apiece, which to me sounds about right (although it's possible they'll split the 46 minutes differently, say 25 and 21).

Obviously these are all wild guesses, and I haven't taken potential injuries into account, but I think it's very unlikely that either Miles or Mason averages 28+ minutes per game this season.

Don't let last year's numbers bias your predictions for this year....there is no way kyle or nolan will approach the numbers they had last year for 2 reasons a) we don't need to...we're SO deep at guard..... and b) it would be impossible....we played a slow as molasses game last year tha allowed those guys to play big minutes....with the huge change in tempo, its just impossible to play at their level for 35-36 minutes a game

Kedsy
10-23-2010, 05:53 PM
Don't let last year's numbers bias your predictions for this year....there is no way kyle or nolan will approach the numbers they had last year for 2 reasons a) we don't need to...we're SO deep at guard..... and b) it would be impossible....we played a slow as molasses game last year tha allowed those guys to play big minutes....with the huge change in tempo, its just impossible to play at their level for 35-36 minutes a game

Which is one reason I predicted 32 and 30 (and not 35 or 36). But I wasn't thinking about last season when I predicted we'd have two guys get 30+ minutes this year. I was thinking about every year that K has coached Duke (except for three).

Here's a list of every season K has coached at Duke and the number of players we've had with a rounded 30 or more minutes (i.e., 29.5 mpg or higher):

2010: 3
2009: 3
2008: 1
2007: 4
2006: 4
2005: 3
2004: 4
2003: 3
2002: 3
2001: 2
2000: 3
1999: 2
1998: 0
1997: 2
1996: 4
1995: 2
1994: 4
1993: 3
1992: 5
1991: 2
1990: 3
1989: 3
1988: 2
1987: 2
1986: 3
1985: 3
1984: 3
1983: 1
1982: 3

In 29 seasons under K, the only years we haven't had at least two guys at 30 (rounded) or higher were 2008, 1998, and 1983. In fact, there were only another seven seasons where we "only" had two guys at that minute level. 19 of the 29 seasons we had three or more.

So, when I made my predictions I had already taken our depth and pace into account. Odds are we'll have at least two guys hitting the 30 minute plateau. I said 32 for Kyle because we have issues with all our other options at the "3," plus he'll be playing at least a little "4."

BD80
10-23-2010, 06:55 PM
Well, BD, I don't think your conclusion necessarily follows from your examples, so here's my version of "the REST of the story" for 2010-11:

It would be hard to envision Kyle playing fewer than 32 mpg, or Nolan fewer than 30;

I think we can expect Kyrie to be playing in the 28 mpg, and Seth around 23 mpg (that's 113 if you're adding at home);

Ryan should get at least 17 or 18 mpg and Andre 15 or 16 (although I think both could/should see more time than that), so let's say 33 between them (146 total);

It's almost not possible for Josh to get fewer than 3 mpg or Tyler fewer than 1 mpg (even counting DNPs as 0).

Which leaves 50 minutes per game for Miles and Mason. That's 25 per Plumlee per game and to me that looks pretty much like a ceiling. If you still think they'll be seeing 28+, find me six minutes we can take from my estimates. On the contrary, I think several of my estimates are low. Kyle could end up seeing 34 mpg, Andre should be able to earn 18+ mpg and Josh and Tyler could easily see 8 or 10 mpg (combined) instead of the 4 I've allotted them. Just putting them at 8 mpg combined knocks the Plumlees down to 23 apiece, which to me sounds about right (although it's possible they'll split the 46 minutes differently, say 25 and 21).

Obviously these are all wild guesses, and I haven't taken potential injuries into account, but I think it's very unlikely that either Miles or Mason averages 28+ minutes per game this season.

Aha! You have fallen into my brilliant trap!

If Miles and Mason total 50 mpg and Ryan 18 mpg and Josh 4 mpg (72 mpg post minutes) would mean at least 8mpg for Kyle in the post!

My main point is that we are incredibly deep on the perimeter and not so deep in the post if we keep Kyle on the perimeter. With Kyle sliding into the post for 8-10 mpg, we become deep in the post, and open up PT for very talented perimeter players.

I don't see a 6' 7" freshman as a significant back-up for a post position, primarily because Coach K doesn't tend to play such lower rated freshmen very much, particularly as he shortens his bench at the end of the year. There have been freshman he has identified early on as a necessary part of his rotation, but rarely does a freshman work is way up from the end of the bench in his freshman year.

My assumption is that, without Kyle in the post, Ryan is our only viable reserve post player, and that Miles and Mason would have to play a lot of minutes. Frankly, I see this as likely through the non-conference season. If Ryan, Mason and Miles aren't getting it done, I think you will see Kyle get more and more time in the post. As games get closer, Kyle will spend more time in the post in end game situations.

riverside6
10-23-2010, 07:03 PM
You can check out live tempo-based stats for the game here...

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=7100

Kedsy
10-23-2010, 07:09 PM
Aha! You have fallen into my brilliant trap!

If Miles and Mason total 50 mpg and Ryan 18 mpg and Josh 4 mpg (72 mpg post minutes) would mean at least 8mpg for Kyle in the post!

I have always assumed Kyle will play 8 to 10 minutes at the "4," which is why Mason and Miles should not be expected to play more than 20 to 25 minutes each. If this was your point, then we agree.

Although personally I expect Ryan to be about 20 and Josh to be 5 to 7, which would leave only 45 minutes for the MPs combined (again, assuming 8 to 10 "4" minutes for Kyle).

timmy c
10-23-2010, 07:14 PM
is there anywhere online where I can listen/watch the game without paying for a subscription?

juise
10-23-2010, 07:21 PM
24 to 1. Reminds me of the Michigan game ("Little Point Guard" clap clap, clap clap clap) my freshman year.

SCMatt33
10-23-2010, 07:22 PM
Live Stream Audio on WEEB 990!
http://radiotime.com/station/s_28449/NewsTalk_990.aspx

proelitedota
10-23-2010, 07:25 PM
Very nice of us to applaud when St. Augustine scores a point.

_TheFakeJWill_
10-23-2010, 07:25 PM
kyrie looks nasty! Kelly has a quick 6 points and back to back 3s by Curry and Dawkins. 30-3 Duke :D

timmy c
10-23-2010, 07:27 PM
Live Stream Audio on WEEB 990!
http://radiotime.com/station/s_28449/NewsTalk_990.aspx

thanks matt! That's a sweet assist!

RelativeWays
10-23-2010, 07:32 PM
thanks matt! That's a sweet assist!

stream doesn't work for me.

camion
10-23-2010, 07:35 PM
44-14. 7:37 to go in the first half.

59-21 3:43 to in the first half.

Duke is just to big, fast and numerous for St. Aug.

Irving is going to be an assist machine. He puts the ball where it needs to be.

timmy c
10-23-2010, 07:38 PM
stream doesn't work for me.

try searching weeb 990
http://radiotime.com/WebTuner.aspx?StationId=28449&

Hancock 4 Duke
10-23-2010, 07:46 PM
Where can I find a box score for the game?

Spam Filter
10-23-2010, 07:48 PM
Our offense is going to be outstanding.

All the freshmen needs to work on their defense, but that's to be expected.

The most disappointing thing is Mason's defense, he looks exactly the same as last year. I would not be surprised if at some point Kelly takes Mason's starting job, or at least play more minutes than Mason. Kelly has much better defensive instincts.

timmy c
10-23-2010, 07:52 PM
Where can I find a box score for the game?

try this link for a real time box score:
http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=7100&bView=0

Hancock 4 Duke
10-23-2010, 07:53 PM
try this link for a real time box score:
http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=7100&bView=0

thanks!

wtm001
10-23-2010, 07:53 PM
73 - 25

end of first half

davekay1971
10-23-2010, 08:06 PM
Of note on that stats link, we had a 1st half offensive effeciency of 160. Uh...that's high.

MChambers
10-23-2010, 08:12 PM
This game is as a big a blowout as the UNC game in Cameron last March.

Just had to point that out.

Duvall
10-23-2010, 08:13 PM
Kyrie Irving.

Well.

Gthoma2a
10-23-2010, 08:15 PM
This game is as a big a blowout as the UNC game in Cameron last March.

Just had to point that out.

Let's not get carried away, that was a murder...

On a serious note, have we sped them up or have they slowed us down (tempo is even)? Also, our free throw percentage sucks... we need Jon to come back and teach these guys how it is done. I also hope Miles is playing good defense because his offensive numbers aren't looking like much. Mason could get the starting job from his offense if he can do this against regular season opponents.

davekay1971
10-23-2010, 08:16 PM
Let's not get carried away, that was a murder...

On a serious note, have we sped them up or have they slowed us down (tempo is even)? Also, our free throw percentage sucks... we need Jon to come back and teach these guys how it is done. I also hope Miles is playing good defense because his offensive numbers aren't looking like much. Mason could get the starting job from his offense if he can do this against regular season opponents.

Yeah, at least St. Aug's is putting up a fight and playing with heart...

Gthoma2a
10-23-2010, 08:20 PM
Yeah, at least St. Aug's is putting up a fight and playing with heart...

It's funny, but that is really true. The tarholes were like the tinman last year, but this year judging by their judgment to put on a play instead of just playing at Midnight Madness, they are more like the scarecrow (if they only had brains... I think Harrison will really be saying that in reflection by the end of the season).

camion
10-23-2010, 08:26 PM
Duke hits 100 with over 13 minutes remaining.

devildeac
10-23-2010, 08:33 PM
MP2 just picked up his 4th PF according to WDNC.

timmy c
10-23-2010, 08:37 PM
singler is on fire. I wonder how his knee is feeling...

meloveduke
10-23-2010, 08:38 PM
I just wanted to say thanx to the people that put the links to the stats and the stream. I have been waiting all summer for Duke ball to start back up. LETS GO!!!!!

Duke: A Dynasty
10-23-2010, 08:41 PM
Whats wrong with Miles Plumlee? He had 2 points last I saw. Is he hurt or what? I can't watch and just now started listening.

meloveduke
10-23-2010, 08:42 PM
I know this is a D2 school and all, but I think Duke is going to be hard to stop this year if the kids dont get hurt.

Gthoma2a
10-23-2010, 08:43 PM
Whats wrong with Miles Plumlee? He had 2 points last I saw. Is he hurt or what? I can't watch and just now started listening.

I was thinking the same.

I also thank the people who threw the streams, stats and all up.

mickeysgotagun
10-23-2010, 08:43 PM
Whats wrong with Miles Plumlee? He had 2 points last I saw. Is he hurt or what? I can't watch and just now started listening.

Not sure how much it bothered him, but Miles got bonked in the nose pretty hard early in the game. He had to go out, not sure for how long though.

mkline09
10-23-2010, 08:44 PM
Whats wrong with Miles Plumlee? He had 2 points last I saw. Is he hurt or what? I can't watch and just now started listening.

I was wondering the same thing. He has played 20 min. and only scored 2 pts. and grabbed 2 boards.

meloveduke
10-23-2010, 08:47 PM
Whats wrong with Miles Plumlee? He had 2 points last I saw. Is he hurt or what? I can't watch and just now started listening.

well he is not shooting that much, only 3 shoots in 20 min. He does have 2 blocks, 2 ast, and 2 reb last I checked. Maybe K told the bigs to take it easy on them and let the gaurds get a rythem together.

Duke: A Dynasty
10-23-2010, 08:47 PM
I was wondering the same thing. He has played 20 min. and only scored 2 pts. and grabbed 2 boards.

See now that worries me, hurt nose or not he is huge compared to these guys and should score easily.

devildeac
10-23-2010, 08:47 PM
FG% 1st half was 68%.
FT% 1st half was 68%.

No typo (radio stats)

Duke: A Dynasty
10-23-2010, 08:49 PM
well he is not shooting that much, only 3 shoots in 20 min. He does have 2 blocks, 2 ast, and 2 reb last I checked. Maybe K told the bigs to take it easy on them and let the gaurds get a rythem together.

I sure hope so. Only thing I could think of.

devildeac
10-23-2010, 08:49 PM
St Aug's already has 60 points. I'd be worried about our D;).

mkline09
10-23-2010, 08:50 PM
FG% 1st half was 68%.
FT% 1st half was 68%.

No typo (radio stats)

That will definitely have to improve as the competition gets tougher.

devildeac
10-23-2010, 08:51 PM
Josh just fouled out.

meloveduke
10-23-2010, 08:52 PM
how about mason shot 100% from the floor (so far that is). Thats whats up... lol

devildeac
10-23-2010, 08:52 PM
That will definitely have to improve as the competition gets tougher.

One or both of those?;)

Duke: A Dynasty
10-23-2010, 08:52 PM
Josh just fouled out.

7 points 2 assists 2 rebounds

mkline09
10-23-2010, 08:53 PM
That is an impressive stat no matter who you play. Thornton is two points away from making it 8. When 70 to 80 percent of your scholarship players score in double figures you probably will win the game.

MChambers
10-23-2010, 08:53 PM
That will definitely have to improve as the competition gets tougher.

Are you referring to the field goal percentage or the free throw percentage?

Seriously, are you worried about shooting 68% from the line in a single preseason game?

mkline09
10-23-2010, 08:55 PM
Are you referring to the field goal percentage or the free throw percentage?

Seriously, are you worried about shooting 68% from the line in a single preseason game?

In a preseason game no. Long term yes. Preseason games you worry about the little things for the future. I'm sure K won't be happy with that. You can't expect to shoot 68% from the floor every game.

mickeysgotagun
10-23-2010, 08:56 PM
Miles just had an amaaaaaaaaaaaaazing block, I think he's fine.

MChambers
10-23-2010, 08:57 PM
In a preseason game no. Long term yes. Preseason games you worry about the little things for the future. I'm sure K won't be happy with that. You can't expect to shoot 68% from the floor every game.

I absolutely agree that a 68% percentage for the season would be poor. But the results of a single game are a very small sample size. You can't draw any conclusions from it. Also remember that the players shooting the free throws in this game may well not be the ones who shoot the most over the course of the season (although Nolan, one of our best, has been very poor tonight).

meloveduke
10-23-2010, 08:57 PM
Miles just had an amaaaaaaaaaaaaazing block, I think he's fine.

I want to seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!

devildeac
10-23-2010, 08:58 PM
Tyler has 9 now.

devildeac
10-23-2010, 09:01 PM
More than double. Clap, clap, clap/clap/clap.

camion
10-23-2010, 09:03 PM
Final score 141-68.


Duke wins.

meloveduke
10-23-2010, 09:04 PM
ft% up to 73.17% not bad for your first game. I do think it will go up though.

Duke: A Dynasty
10-23-2010, 09:05 PM
http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=7100&bView=0

Final Box Score

meloveduke
10-23-2010, 09:07 PM
anyone recall the last time Duke beat a team by 73 points?

dcar1985
10-23-2010, 09:09 PM
team looked good tonite...tyler, and seth are hounds of D....Mason defense still looks terrible, lot of reaching and silly fouls, Kyrie will keep Mason on the floor though because of their ability to connect on oops and other spectacular plays, Kelly cant match Masons athleticism....expected more out of Miles but not too many negatives to point out, Dre had a good game, stroke was working...would like to see him drive and penetrate more though, he has to work on his handle if he wants to stay on the court this year and in the coming years.

_TheFakeJWill_
10-23-2010, 09:09 PM
have they ever put up 141?!

striker219
10-23-2010, 09:20 PM
I'm checking out the box score and I have to say, I'm a little disturbed that we only shot 56% from the line. I know this is just an exhib...oh wait, that's from the three point line.

Never mind.

cbnaylor
10-23-2010, 09:34 PM
Dawkins with 20. Not bad. He must have found his stroke! If he can do this on a regular basis, he could be the X factor.

Starter
10-23-2010, 09:37 PM
Worrying about this team's free-throw percentage (in an exhibition) is like saying, "Dating Beyonce is great and all, but I'm concerned about her breath when she wakes up in the morning."

ACCBBallFan
10-23-2010, 10:03 PM
http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=7100&bView=0
Final Box Score

Thanks.

I tried to add all the positive metrics deduct the negative ones and account for team leaders in each category. Final metircs:

Ratiing Player
113 Kyle Singler * led in min, pts, reb

90 Seth Curry led in FT nmade, FT Attempots, A:T was 5:1
86 Kyrie Irving * 21 min; 17 pts; A:T 7:1
86 Ryan Kelly 21 min; 6 boards, led with 4 steals

83 Mason Plumlee * 8 boards, 6-6 in FGS; 3 blocks but 4 fouls, best +/-
81 Nolan Smith * A:T leader with 9:2
81 Andre Dawkins 22 min; 20 points; 6-6 from line

68 Miles Plumlee * 22 min; 4 blocks; only 1 foul
64 Tyler Thornton 6 rebounds; A:T 4:1; but 3 PF's

42 Josh Hairston A:T was 2:0 but fouled out

9 Todd Zafirovski
6 Casey Peters

St. Augustine got what they wanted by playing 9 guys double digit minutes in Cameron, had 7 guys score 7 or more points with balanced scoring. When back in their division, they can do quite well despite losing 6 of their top 7 scorers from last season.