Hendo to be suspended?

[throatybeard]

I wonder if any DBR board thread has ever exceeded 20K views before. I sort of doubt it.

[gdsballer]

let me pose something that i haven't seen yet: when henderson went up to block the shot, the law of gravity still exists: he had to come down, and since it wasn't a dunk, he couldn't hang on the rim... how bout this from the homepage...typical carolina...
With about 9 minutes to play, and the game very tight, Deng reached out for a loose ball in front of the Duke bench. David Noel ran over him, smashing his head to the floor and rendering him unconscious for several moments. (I was sitting about 50 feet from where this happened.)

No foul was called, and Rashad McCants scored before play was stopped. While Deng lay on the floor out cold, gracious Carolina fans yelled that he was faking it.

Over the next three minutes, with Deng on the bench, Carolina sandwiched a 9-0 run between two Duke baskets. By the time Deng re—entered the game, Duke was down 69-64. Duke fought back to send the game to overtime, and won on Chris Duhon’’s length-of-the-court dash and reverse layup.

Noel slamming Deng to the floor almost cost Duke the game, and Deng came close to suffering a catastrophic injury. But, of course, no outraged columnists decried this assault, or predicted that it would leave an eternal stain on the honor of UNC basketball.

Typical.


all i have to say is if henderson's foul is a cheap shot, so is that...is someone tells me that it was accidental, then so was henderson's...

[SMO]

Or he might become wildly funny and entertaining!18


any time a nose bleeds like that after a blow, it is probably broken.

he may be scarier looking with a mask on than he normally is.

[hurleyfor3]

Well, it worked for Grant Hill in '91.

[dcarp23]

A classy and probably correct assessment from a classy guy:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/456/story/40676.html

"I know Gerald Henderson and his family, and I think he is a wonderful kid," Williams said. "I don't think there is any intentional thing, any planned thing. ... The referees looked at it on tape and made their decision, and after looking at it on tape, if I had been the official, that would have been the decision I made."

Roy is fine with the way the situation was resolved, the Carolina players didn't think anything of it, K apologized and was fine with the result, and Henderson apologized.

Fans, however, won't let this one go for a while. I think it is an interesting phenomenon that fans on both sides think and wish that the players and the coaches hated each other a little more than they do.

[PgaBill]

Everyone is making a big deal out of this and they are blaming Duke....What game were they watching? The game was well in hand, and the Tarheels still were on the attack; dunking the ball and water-boys jacking up three-pointers. Did they ever hear the quote..."Act like you've been there before" All they had to do was hold onto the ball, use the clock and the game would have been over.

[Twigmas]

I understand that emotions are high. I understand that no one wanted the game to end the way it did. I do not think that Henderson intentionally aimed for Tyler's face. I think that Tyler probably should not have attempted to score again. However, for those that keep insisting that Duke always runs out the clock, is ESPN's play-by-play for the ending of the Texas game wrong?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=253440251&period=2

Or is there something else I am missing?

[feldspar]

However, for those that keep insisting that Duke always runs out the clock, is ESPN's play-by-play for the ending of the Texas game wrong?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=253440251&period=2

Or is there something else I am missing?

No. You're just being objective. Nicely done.

[Highlander]

is up as a podcast on www.wfnz.com (http://www.wfnz.com). Left hand side under the Morning Sports Page incident.

Sorry - meant to say Henderson incident above. Not injury.

[billy]

...the "kids" are being matter of fact, if not entirely more classy (read Green and Terry's comments) than all of the commentators and fans combined

[Carlos]

twigmas - of course, in the plays leading up to that last series where Paulus missed a layup and then Boateng missed on the followup, Duke's possessions went:

- 28 seconds into the shot clock before Melchionni scored
- 32 seconds into the clock before Shelden made some FT's
- 7 seconds into the clock before Texas fouled Dockery and he hit the FTs
- 19 seconds into the clock before missing a layup
- 35 seconds into the clock before Pocius made a 3
- 23 seconds into the clock before Pocius made a 2
- 18 seconds into the clock before Texas fouled Paulus and he made the FTs
- 3 seconds into the clock before Boykin was fouled
- 25 seconds into the clock before Boykin makes a layup

I don't have a problem with Roy having his guys out there nor do I have a problem with the fact that Carolina usually does continue to run and shoot quickly at the end of games where they have a margin. That's their game.

I do find it more than a little ironic though given all the hysteria from the baby blue crowd when Duke would have their starters in at the end of a big win and, even though they were running deep into the shot clock, K was still "running up the score."

[Twigmas]

Carlos,

I fully admit that there are hypocritical Carolina fans. But I have always found the DBR to have better/more rational fans than the scout boards. In this instance, the rational fans seemed to be in the minority. Maybe it is due to the new boards.

[phaedrus]

Or maybe he'll cash in and go to the NBA after this season!17

maybe he'll become an nba all-star... or not

http://img.coxnewsweb.com/C/09/53/14/image_1514539.jpg

[Chard]

This is what is so discouraging for me about the last few years. It seems like we just continue to have this non-stop string of controveries that get seized upon and blown all out of proportion. If we win, there's a freaking controversy. If we lose, there's some more controversy. If Coach K says one thing, the context is adjusted to create controversy. Melchionni gets kicked in the face, and it's a 3 second replay, never mentioned again. But let anything make Duke look bad, and you have ESPN, myriad hack writers, and 1000000000 youtube amateur producers piling on. It just never stops these days. I guess it's nice to have attention, because it means you've been successful, but damn it get's old being cast as Darth Vader every week.

Welcome to the world of a Miami football fan.

[tux]

It looked pretty bad.

Seriously, I hope that all the real Duke fans out there will not resort to making the following 2 lame arguments:

1) Roy Williams should not have had Tyler on the floor because of the time/score;

A reasonable person could argue that Roy should have taken Tyler out to prevent any freak injury, etc. but that's Roy's decision to make. As a Duke fan, I could care less who UNC has on the floor;

2) That Henderson was not trying to make a hard block/foul;

This is a losing argument even if it's true. No one believes it and you're not changing anyone's mind about it. I personally think that Hendo was trying to shove the ball down Tyler's throat. Unfortunately, the ball wasn't there. It was a very aggressive play on Gerald's part and it's unfortunate that the sequence ended like that. I have no problem with a hard foul --- if Tyler wants to battle our walkons for a rebound and go up for a meaningless dunk with 14 seconds left, he should expect a hard foul. That being said, I hate that he got injured. (Let's all -- or at least the adults here --- remember that these are 19 year old kids.)

Go Duke.

[mph]

I completely disagree. The most i've ever hated carolina was after watching those thugs throw down a fast break dunk then the next possession ellington goes for a highlight reel dunk. duke NEVER does that. EVER.

they run the clock out. if they get a fast break they pull it out and take some time off the clock. i dont care if the starters are in. that's no big deal. what i care about is having to watch my team's down 15 with under half a minute left to go and the other team's drying to dunk offensive boards, jacking up 3s on inbounds plays and generally playing with NO class and NO sportsmanship.

when it finally came down to it DUKE, the losing team, had to run out the last 6 or 7 seconds off the clock. that should never happen.

I hope we are at least in agreement that G's suspension has nothing to do with who is in the game. It can't matter without becoming incriminating, If G was thinking TH should already have been pulled or that UNC was attempting to run up the score, it would support the position that the attack was intentional.

As for the question itself, I don't think Carolina was running up the score and I wouldn't care all that much if they were. We were playing incredibly hard even after it was obvious we were going to lose. I love that about this team. It's also a reason there is nothing wrong with UNC continuing to attack on offense. What's a safe lead against a good team? Ask Steve Blake, Juan Dixon, et. al.

The two plays that have everybody worked up involve a 3 by a walk-on and a put back attempt on a missed free throw. If a walk-on wants to take a 3 in the final seconds of his last home game, go for it. Tell me we wouldn't be cheering a made three from a senior walk-on even if we were up 40. As for TH's put back attempt, is that really where we are drawing the line on sportsmanship. If you catch the ball directly under the basket in a game you are guaranteed to win, you have to kick it out to be a good sport? Seriously?

It's not the job of the opposing team to protect our team's psyche, let alone ours. It is, however, their job to put us away whenever they have the chance. Complaining about UNC's lack of class comes off as sour grapes.

P.S. Duke hasn't run up the score lately because every time we build a sizable lead late in the game we slow the tempo. That's a move designed to protect us not them.

[bluebear]

Why does Jay hate Duke? ;) ;)

[Schleimer24]

More written diarrhea from ESPN's "The Sports Guy." It's bad enough that we're subjected to listening to him moan about the Red Sox. Now his true colors come out in this article.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/index?name=simmons

A personal favorite quote of mine:

"I don't mean to pile on Billy Packer here -- OK, maybe I do -- but when you're already considered to be one of the biggest apologists on the planet for Duke basketball, is it really a good idea to keep making excuses for a Duke player after he just threw a malicious elbow at Carolina's best player with 15 seconds remaining in an 12-point game?"

Is he honestly serious about Packer being a Duke apologist? To borrow a quote from Van Wilder, "If you're here, who's running hell?"

Glad to know your honest feelings about Duke. Why don't you and Pat Forde go live on an island together and rot in hell.

[A-Tex Devil]

I've done about a 540 on this issue. Listening to Jim Rome in the car at lunch, I think I've finally made up my mind on this thing and it's that Gerald's actions may not mandate a suspension, but it's the decision the refs made. Gerald made a play expecting a certain result and got more than he bargained for. Sounds like he's taking it like a man, better than a lot of fans, including myself at points, have taken it.

Gerald said himself he was going up to block the shot or foul. His attempt to foul resulted in a injury to Tyler. I'll disagree with anyone who thinks Gerald was going for Tyler's head, but he was probably trying to knock TH on his rear. Gerald was responsible for the broken nose in that sense, and the refs, possible over-harsh, said it was suspension worthy.

Anyways, as with all things, this probably lies somewhere in the middle. And I'm not going to make any excuses. I hope our guy goes up and defends the rim next time a team is trying to pad stats like last night. It was just unfortunate that forearm and nose had to meet and create the bloodt mess we saw last night.

While I disagree with Rome's take on what happened (he thinks Gerald was headhunting) I do agree with him that we as Duke fans should own this like the team has. Sorry about the nose, Tyler, it was unfortunate and not intended. Duke did not want you to score there and they defended you as any team in America would have. You didn't deserve the results, but I hope we have three guys going up with you again next time you try to pad your stats with 14 seconds left. Hopefully next time you just fall on your rear.

[feldspar]

More written diarrhea from ESPN's "The Sports Guy."

You know, usually when I see a pile of diarrhea laying on the street, I don't pick it up and fling it on my friends and say "Hey, look at this diarrhea!!"

[dukelifer]

Bilas thought it was a hard foul that was dealt with correctly by the refs. I think it is becoming clear that there was no intent to harm TH- but a hard foul that causes injury needs to be dealt with. It happened- it fueled the rivalry- it got everyone talking about college ball so ESPN is happy and the next time we will hear all about this is when UNC stumbles in the big dance and they will find a way to blame Duke.

[mph]

If you needed any more evidence that Jim Rome is the biggest blow-hard in sports journalism, just check is comments on this incident.

First, he completely misconstrued K's comments after the game to make it seem he argued that TH had it coming. Then he stood there with his orange tan and did his usually smug, know-it-all, let-me-set-the-record-straight, routine.

His conclusion...

"Your program is down, your team is not what it once was, and Carolina rolled you up yet again. You need to own that and stop telling us that that sort of thing never happens with your program when it just did and everyone saw it."

This from the only journalist I've ever seen who got his a** kicked in a studio. Where's Jim Everett when you need him?

[NashvilleDevil]

I read his comments to and noticed a couple of things that were wrong. He said that UNC was up 8 when Henderson fouled Tyler. IIRC it was a 10-12 point margin. The Packer comment blew me away though. When he started that blog about NCAA Bball he stated he does not know much about college bball and is one of the few NBA fans still around.

All of these writers and commentators know that a large portion of the sports watching population hate Duke and today is probably the easiest day they are going to have when it comes to writing a negative article about Duke and Coach K.

[hurleyfor3]

On Record:
Billy Packer
Joe Forde
Jay Bilas
Len Elmoron
Eric Montross
The Sports Guy
IC
J&B
ESPN SportsNation
Dickie V/Andy Katz/Digger Phelps (all must have opened their mouths by now, right?)
Roy/K
Greg Doyley

Still Waiting To Hear From:
Fred Barakat
Al Featherston
Serge Zwikker
Bill Walton
Charles Barkley
Throaty
Judge Judy
The Iraq Study Group
Simon Cowell
The Panhandle counties of Florida (polls haven't closed yet)

Additions welcome.

[mph]

FWIW, my message was posted before I read your comments on Jim Rome. My post wasn't intended as a response.

Also, I'm quoting Rome from his ESPN TV show.

[weezie]

Wonder what Mike Nifong thinks?

[hurleyfor3]

Good one. Also move Jim Rome into the "on record" category and I'm sure it'll be at the top of this list on this afternoon's PTI. Anyone left at ESPN/ABC/Disney? What about the cast of The View; has Star Jones weighed in yet? Ooooh, bad choice of colloquialism there.

Also no word from: Hillary Clinton (forming exploratory committee)
So-so: John McCain (won't officially announce until April)

[JamieC]

I have had the opportunity to attend the Coach K Fantasy Academy over the past several years. During those times, I, along with the other campers, have been able to spend some time with Jay Bilas. You will not meet a nicer and wittier person than Jay. He is humble, kind, brilliantly funny, and a wonderful person. He is not a Duke apologist. He is honest and objective in his analysis. And more than anything else, he loves Duke basketball and the Duke program. Do not confuse objectivity and honesty with being a "Duke hater." You may not like his comments, but you are dead wrong if you question his love of Coach K and Duke University. I cannot think of a better representative of the University than Jay Bilas.

[Schleimer24]

All of these writers and commentators know that a large portion of the sports watching population hate Duke and today is probably the easiest day they are going to have when it comes to writing a negative article about Duke and Coach K.


Today and probably the day after the Clemson game this season are 2 of the "haters" favorite days. Last season I remember Shelden's block against BC that brought all of the haters out of the woodwork.

As it's been said many times here before and I tell many of my friends, I would hate it if we weren't so hated - that would just mean we're irrelevant. It's funny how when you give people a computer screen to write behind in the privacy of their living room what they'll say.

[A-Tex Devil]

No worries. I hate Rome's schtick. He just happens to be on during lunch when I'm in my car, and I've turned into my father and won't listen to anything but Sports Radio.

I disagreed with everything he said about the incident except the ownership part. I was just thinking about it a little harder as Rome was blathering and he's right -- Hendu went up for a hard foul that had our guy been on the other end of, we'd be going nuts (bloody nose or not). Our team has owned up to it, apologized only to the extent necessary, and moved on.

It stinks for Gerald that this happened, but I guess it's one of those things, y'know?

[unwrinkled ear]

I have had the opportunity to attend the Coach K Fantasy Academy over the past several years. During those times, I, along with the other campers, have been able to spend some time with Jay Bilas. You will not meet a nicer and wittier person than Jay. He is humble, kind, brilliantly funny, and a wonderful person. He is not a Duke apologist. He is honest and objective in his analysis. And more than anything else, he loves Duke basketball and the Duke program. Do not confuse objectivity and honesty with being a "Duke hater." You may not like his comments, but you are dead wrong if you question his love of Coach K and Duke University. I cannot think of a better representative of the University than Jay Bilas.



All that is true - but on any 50/50 call - one where he MAY be criticised by non-Duke folks for being a Duke homer, he REGULARLY comes out on the side of the other guy.
And I think it's because he wants to prove his objectivity in the matter, over and over.
I can't think of any coin-flip ideas/ opinions in which he has ever defended or even chosen the Duke side.
He's fooled himself into thinking that objectivity means publicly nurtuting a little anti-Duke inside him.

[itsmoney13]

My favorite response to this debacle thus far has come from the former terp Elmore. He said on college game night that should Duke and UNC meet in the ACC tourney, Henderson should not be able to play that game either because tempers would flare way too much and put everyone in harm's way. Unreal. I couldn't help but laugh out loud at that one. I thought Elmore was a smart guy, I guess his intellect is being clouded by his ire for Duke, oh well, we can say that about many media figures this morning.

Anyhow, time to move on as I'm sure the players have, they're focusing on NCST and the task at hand.

GTHC! GTHC!

[phaedrus]

waiting for david stern to pre-emptively suspend hendo. after all, basketball is a no-contact sport.

[MChambers]

on Daniel Ewing.

[bird]

Bilas thought it was a hard foul that was dealt with correctly by the refs. I think it is becoming clear that there was no intent to harm TH- but a hard foul that causes injury needs to be dealt with. It happened- it fueled the rivalry- it got everyone talking about college ball so ESPN is happy and the next time we will hear all about this is when UNC stumbles in the big dance and they will find a way to blame Duke.

It's late in the game in a heated rivalry. The game is tense and at times frenetic. A player who has been seriously putting the hurt on the losing team goes up for a last-second, show 'em up dunk. A player comes flying in, arms flying, trying to put the shot into the upper deck, and flails even after the ball is diverted. An elbow hits nose, blood is spilled. EVEN WITHOUT INTENT TO HARM, with big, powerful bodies in close proximity maybe a statement needs to be made: calm down guys, even when you are being shown up. I view the official's actions not really to meet punishment for the offense at hand, but to set a standard of conduct to help set a standard of conduct. I have no problem with that.

[husWagner1983]

I can't believe Gerald was suspended. He went hard for the block. Unfortunately, he closed his eyes and the ball had already been dislodged and therefore wasn't where he expected it to be. If Tyler would have still had the ball going up it would have been a completely different scenario.

I don't get it that most knowledgeable fans/sportscasters haven't looked at the replay from that perspective. Perhaps they didn't want to see it that way. If Henderson had wanted to "punch" Tyler he would have his eyes open to make sure he connected. He stated that he was going for the block or foul. I take that as if I don't get the block I'll probably foul him. What do people expect him to do, go soft for the block? Tyler's a pretty strong guy.

I do think K's comments were a little "lame" regarding Tyler still being in the game. We've done the same thing.

[dbchamblee]

What Would Gerald Do........

[RPS]

Since everyone else has offered an opinion, I'll pile on.

The "they shouldn't have been on the floor" argument is silly. Our line-up wasn't significantly different from Carolina's at that point in terms of quality or experience. The game was over, but remember Walter Davis....

Carolina has no obligation to slow things down late in games. Indeed, as a rule, I wish we did it later and less often.

That some other (allegedly similar) event happened to us without similar punishment is irrelevent. Sometimes we get a break (e.g., Laettner v. UK). Sometimes we don't (yesterday).

No matter how much we might wish things were different, the net result matters in punishment (in the courts, in basketball and in life). That the result of GH's foul was an ugly and bloody injury was a factor in GH's punishment. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that.

I have no argument with the end result. The officials saw the play and were careful to review the replay. They made a call that was within the realm of reason. One may disagree, of course, but the idea that we were hosed somehow is ridiculous.

The players and coaches on both teams have handled the whole situation pretty well. No one claims GH was headhunting. Next play....

The "fans" on both team haven't. Next play....

[tbyers11]

God, I hate Duke.

If you scroll down a bit in the article, Bill Simmons makes it abundantly clear what he thinks about Duke. I guess you have to give him credit for stating it outright unlike several other members of the media.

Honestly, he should stop blogging about college basketball. He announced those 2 WCC games on ESPNU. His blog really does nothing now except show his ignorance about college basketball and his man-crush on Kevin Durant.

[hughgs]

All that is true - but on any 50/50 call - one where he MAY be criticised by non-Duke folks for being a Duke homer, he REGULARLY comes out on the side of the other guy.
And I think it's because he wants to prove his objectivity in the matter, over and over.
I can't think of any coin-flip ideas/ opinions in which he has ever defended or even chosen the Duke side.
He's fooled himself into thinking that objectivity means publicly nurtuting a little anti-Duke inside him.
That's an interesting statement, one we've all heard before. So prove it. Show us some incidents that are considered 50/50 and then give us some statistics that show that he "regularly" comes out on the other side. And to show that you aren't biasing your results I think you only have to look at all the statements from last year that you would consider 50/50.

Now, if you aren't willing to back up your opinions with some facts, then I would suggest that you don't really know what you're talking about.

[hurleyfor3]

He hates the Yankees, too. So what? Does it bother a single Yankees fan?

A couple weeks back he wrote a column on how there's now a New England Patriots backlash after all the success they've had. Oh, the irony.

Not sure anyone remembers, or if it matters, but he picked us as the champion in his tournament bracket last year, and in 2004 commented on how the refs handed the 2004 national semifinal game to uconn.

[Constantstrain 81]

Henderson goes up to block the shot or commit a hard foul and prevent the shot. 99 times out of 100 - that is what happens (sometimes the ball goes in and additional free throws ensure). Yesterday, through a weird series of events (Tyler is stripped of the ball, he goes up with his face instead of his arms, Gerald is distracted by the ball's sudden movement south, etc.) and contact is made with the nose. If Tyler H goes down with no blood, then it is a foul, maybe a flagrant, maybe even a technical. But there is a lot of blood and that (bad luck) means an ejection and a suspension. It is a game played by big people (think of how big Gerald Henderson actually is compared to us) and they are responsible for where their bodies go. No harm intended. No thuggish behavior. Just bad luck. But probably (and hard for this 81 Duke grad to say) the right call.

[IceyTundra]

At bottom of his section on duke in that article - good job emailers

(Note: After this column was posted, I received a flood of e-mails from Duke fans saying that Packer is NOT a Duke apologist -- in fact, he's considered to be anti-Duke and anti-UNC because he's a Wake Forest alum. I always thought he cowtowed to Coach K over the years, but I'll defer to the masses on this one. Maybe he's just a curmudgeon.)

[Zeb]

Simmons is the most entertaining sportswriter in America, period. I will not argue about this. (I basically have a man-crush on him.)

However, it saddens me to see him flying the anti-Duke flag so proudly. I chalk it up to a few things:

1) He's a Red Sox fan. Duke's success the past 20 years is Yankees-esque. That's not a good place to start.
2) He is a passionate NBA fan, but has little knowledge or appreciation of college ball. He's only watching college games because it gives him a chance to see who his awful Celtics might get in the lottery. (Which frankly is a little pathetic, but he went to Holy Cross, grew up watching the Celtics, so he just has a completely different worldview than this board.)
3) He has mentioned unpleasant personal interactions with Duke alums in the past. I'm sure it was none of us, but we all know from interactions with Carolina alums how such incidents can reinforce prejudice.
4) He writes with almost religious certainty on every issue, but moderates that by frequently declaring himself "an idiot". I think this case qualifies.

[rsvman]

1. It's poor sportsmanship to laugh at a sports injury no matter how much you dislike the player (or the player's team) who get injured. Period.

It wasn't funny then and it's not funny now. I seriously felt sorry for Hansbrough at the time it happened. I have always disliked Hansbrough (as a matter of course) but he didn't deserve that. Curiously (to be honest) watching this whole episode has made me dislike his a lot less.

2. I don't think Coach K meant to imply anything by what he said, but he said some pretty stupid stuff post-game. His response should have been: "Gerald didn't mean to hurt anybody. It was an unfortunate accident. We are really sorry that this happened." End of discussion. Then Henderson should have said, "I'm really sorry. I didn't mean to hurt Tyler. I tried to block the shot and I was a little out of control. Again, please accept my apologies."

And if we're going to play the game where we say "he shouldn't have been in the game" or "he shouldn't have been taking the ball to the hoop" we should REALLY be saying "we should've gotten a freaking rebound off a missed free throw, for crying out loud!" They missed a free throw, got the rebound, took a shot and got fouled, missed the free throw, and got the rebound AGAIN. If Duke could have just coralled a stinking rebound, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

3. This doesn't HELP the rivalry, it HURTS it. The rivalry is/has been based on mutual respect and good, hard, clean basketball. Probably this is just an example of an unfortunate accident, but it reeks of dirty ball (even if it wasn't). And even if all the Duke fans think it was an accident, there's no way to convince anybody else to believe that.


I, for one, am not proud of the way this incident makes the program look. I don't think Coach K did himself or the university proud with his comments. I hope that some better press makes its way out of the rubble; I hope that we will hear that Henderson showed remorse and apologized personally to Hansbrough.

[RepoMan]

I don't know what to make of this, and this thread is so long I don't know if the following has already been linked, but, for what it is worth, State fans, for the most part, seem to support the "hard fouls are a part of the game" approach. Of course, I think they mostly don't like Hans. http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2007/03/04/sfn-hansbrough-vs-henderson/

[unwrinkled ear]

On Record:
Billy Packer
Joe Forde
Jay Bilas
Len Elmoron
Eric Montross
The Sports Guy
IC
J&B
ESPN SportsNation
Dickie V/Andy Katz/Digger Phelps (all must have opened their mouths by now, right?)
Roy/K
Greg Doyley

Still Waiting To Hear From:
Fred Barakat
Al Featherston
Serge Zwikker
Bill Walton
Charles Barkley
Throaty
Judge Judy
The Iraq Study Group
Simon Cowell
The Panhandle counties of Florida (polls haven't closed yet)

Additions welcome.

Would it be possible to see a tally next to each name with I (intentional) and NI (not intentional) posted?

[rthomas]

I'm sure Stephen Colbert will have full coverage since its Good vs. Evil.

[mapei]

Excellent points, rsvman.

[dukediv2013]

Does anyone have a picture of G and all of the assistant coaches walking off of the court vs. kerolina

[throatybeard]

Throaty was sick of the whole issue 5 minutes after it happened. :(

Also, I think this should be referred to as the "Hendercident."

[phaedrus]

rsvman, you're making a mountain out of a molehill. henderson didn't shatter his face, rudy t-style, nor did hansbrough suffer a career-threatening acl injury or even a game-threatening ankle injury. if this had happened earlier in the game and hansbrough didn't make such a show out of it, this wouldn't have garnered nearly the same attention.

we should send him flowers because he broke his nose (barely)? maybe we should send him video of a hockey game, or at least a game involving dikembe mutombo or shaq. hell, i had my nose broken playing j.v. ball on a similar play (less blood though) - and i even shot the free throws. pardon us for noting the irony of the acc's roughest and most physical player crying because of a bloodied nose. how many noses of other players do you think hansbrough has broken in his years of playing?

[TNTDevil]

.... wondered why Gerald didn't shoot Tyler. But then W reminded Dick that Gerald and Tyler aren't "friends" so shooting wasn't appropriate.

[Karl Beem]

I don't know what bores me more, Simmons or all the crap movies and TV shows he works into his columns.

[GDT]

I heard the exact same meme here on at least two different talk radio shows today (although I don't know what is worse: using the word meme or admitting I listened to sports talk radio). But the radio was packed full of every fan of a team Duke has beaten in the last 10 years asserting that Packer was a Duke homer. And every time there was a sports update I had to listen to Montrossity relate the closed-fist punch GH apparently threw. Well, I guess I didn't have to listen; I got what I asked for. Oh well, so soon they forget Ndjaye (sic).

[rsvman]

rsvman, you're making a mountain out of a molehill. This may be true. I am not speaking for anybody but myself.

we should send him flowers because he broke his nose (barely)? That's a pretty liberal interpretation of what I said. And by the way, he didn't "break his nose," Henderson broke it for him.
maybe we should send him video of a hockey game.... Diversionary. Hockey is not basketball, and basketball is not hockey. Why not say we should send him a video of a boxing match?

hell, i had my nose broken playing j.v. ball on a similar play (less blood though) - and i even shot the free throws. I've had my nose broken before, so I know how much it hurts. Good for you to shoot the free throws, but I had to go to the hospital and have surgery. Maybe that explains my differing take on the situation.

pardon us for noting the irony of the acc's roughest and most physical player crying because of a bloodied nose. He WASN'T crying. Your eyes WATER when you get hit hard in the nose. Everybody get off the "crying" bit already. Geez.

how many noses of other players do you think hansbrough has broken in his years of playing? I'd venture a guess that the answer is probably zero. Not saying he hasn't knocked people over a few times, but contrary to some people's belief system, breaking a nose in competitive basketball just isn't all that common.

[phaedrus]

didn't mean to be too contentious, rsvman, and i wasn't addressing you alone. i'm just in disbelief that there is this much attention paid to a broken nose - and by "barely" broken, i refer to them not even thinking it was broken at first. i realize it can be a more serious injury - last month my brother had his nose broken in 7 places playing hockey and also needed surgery. unfortunately, his assailant wasn't a duke basketball player so he couldn't prosecute. my point about hockey addresses your assertion that we shouldn't laugh at sports injuries - as someone who spent about half his college years in the duke training room, sometimes you have to laugh at sports injuries. hansbrough's broken nose is so far down on the totem pole of sports injuries i just don't understand the gravity of this situation.

here's some fodder concerning broken noses:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1956133

[kjo3444]

1) He's a Red Sox fan. Duke's success the past 20 years is Yankees-esque. That's not a good place to start.

All due respect, 1 NCAA title in the last 14 years is not "Yankee-esque". More like "Anaheim Angels-esque".

[Madrasdukie]

1. It's poor sportsmanship to laugh at a sports injury no matter how much you dislike the player (or the player's team) who get injured. Period.

It wasn't funny then and it's not funny now. I seriously felt sorry for Hansbrough at the time it happened. I have always disliked Hansbrough (as a matter of course) but he didn't deserve that. Curiously (to be honest) watching this whole episode has made me dislike his a lot less.

2. I don't think Coach K meant to imply anything by what he said, but he said some pretty stupid stuff post-game. His response should have been: "Gerald didn't mean to hurt anybody. It was an unfortunate accident. We are really sorry that this happened." End of discussion. Then Henderson should have said, "I'm really sorry. I didn't mean to hurt Tyler. I tried to block the shot and I was a little out of control. Again, please accept my apologies."

And if we're going to play the game where we say "he shouldn't have been in the game" or "he shouldn't have been taking the ball to the hoop" we should REALLY be saying "we should've gotten a freaking rebound off a missed free throw, for crying out loud!" They missed a free throw, got the rebound, took a shot and got fouled, missed the free throw, and got the rebound AGAIN. If Duke could have just coralled a stinking rebound, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

3. This doesn't HELP the rivalry, it HURTS it. The rivalry is/has been based on mutual respect and good, hard, clean basketball. Probably this is just an example of an unfortunate accident, but it reeks of dirty ball (even if it wasn't). And even if all the Duke fans think it was an accident, there's no way to convince anybody else to believe that.


I, for one, am not proud of the way this incident makes the program look. I don't think Coach K did himself or the university proud with his comments. I hope that some better press makes its way out of the rubble; I hope that we will hear that Henderson showed remorse and apologized personally to Hansbrough.


My concern:

Based on what I've seen sofar Gerald plays aggresive but clean basketball-his drives to the basket, his dunks, his from behind-the-back defensive swats (somewhat reminiscent of Shane) and his defense in general.
He's a young kid who presumably will let all this negative bashing affect him, to some extent. So,

1. Will Gerald's aggresiveness on the court be adversely affected by this unfortunate, unintentional, hard foul ?


There have been many precedents where refs have a tendency to let the past influence their current judgement of a player (Shav, Ewing and B.Zoubek...)on-court. So,

2. To what extent will the refs let the past influence their current judgement when seeing Gerald play?


Here's hoping that Gerald is a very strong, confident young man who with the help of our excellant coaching staff, and his dad among others, comes out of this stronger and more confident than before.

I'm rooting for you Gerald as are hordes of other people.

[Madrasdukie]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=2787890&sportCat=ncb

[bluebear]

Yankee-esque would be a team like Kentucky or some other team that won way back in the 90s... :p

[Schleimer24]

All due respect, 1 NCAA title in the last 14 years is not "Yankee-esque". More like "Anaheim Angels-esque".

8 of 9 years as a #1 seed/ACC tournament winner is though.

[Virginian]

Every sports writer in America has wallowed in the "you either love Duke or hate Duke" or "Duke, the team you love to hate" muck. Every time one of those writers has a hangover and faces a deadline with zero thoughts, he/she pounds out a 20-minute column about hating Duke.

Given that, it was only time before they all had to start vying for the record of hating Duke more than anyone else writing that day. It just shows what lazy creeps most sports writers are. Just think of the frenzy they went into over the lacrosse issue. Like Pavlov's dogs.

[dukestheheat]

well,

'i know the bush family, and you my friend, are NOT.....'. anyways, Baghdad Bob just phoned HIS opinion in (from the slammer) and this lady from next door, from El Salvador, just told me what SHE thinks about 'that boy from Duke who almost killed that guy.'

dth.

[kjo3444]

All due respect, 1 NCAA title in the last 14 years is not "Yankee-esque". More like "Anaheim Angels-esque".

8 of 9 years as a #1 seed/ACC tournament winner is though.

I didn't realize they gave titles out for being seeded #1...I thought you actually had to - you know, PLAY the games and WIN the titles. By your criteria then, a more apt comparison is 'Atlanta Braves-esque'...a top seeding, then an embarrassing early loss when it matters.

[bluebear]

I think the perception about Bilas stems from the fact that people expect him to be a Duke homer..the reality is that he is one of the most balanced and least biased commentators out there..that's what makes him so good..

[MulletMan]

Henderson goes up to block the shot or commit a hard foul and prevent the shot. 99 times out of 100 - that is what happens (sometimes the ball goes in and additional free throws ensure). Yesterday, through a weird series of events (Tyler is stripped of the ball, he goes up with his face instead of his arms, Gerald is distracted by the ball's sudden movement south, etc.) and contact is made with the nose. If Tyler H goes down with no blood, then it is a foul, maybe a flagrant, maybe even a technical. But there is a lot of blood and that (bad luck) means an ejection and a suspension. It is a game played by big people (think of how big Gerald Henderson actually is compared to us) and they are responsible for where their bodies go. No harm intended. No thuggish behavior. Just bad luck. But probably (and hard for this 81 Duke grad to say) the right call.

Sanity. Level headedness. Perhaps, dare I say it... impartiality? Dear God 81... where have you been the past 24 hours?

[husWagner1983]

Others I look "forward" to hearing from...
Nancy Grace...there must be a lacrosse connection somewhere...
The Onion...who knows
Eric Cartman...Kenny was probably killed under the basket
Al Gore...surely this has a global warming effect from all this "heat"

[Duvall]

All due respect, 1 NCAA title in the last 14 years is not "Yankee-esque". More like "Anaheim Angels-esque".

In the last 14 years, Duke has won a national title and been to four Final Fours. For most programs, that's a successful history. For most coaches, that's a Hall of Fame career. For Mike Krzyzewski, that's a second act.

[billy]

Gore's thoughts on the matter are locked away in his special "lock box"

[hurleyfor3]

Gore's thoughts on the matter are locked away in his special "lock box"

Is that where Hendu has to spend the game on Thursday?

[hedgehog]

I didn't realize they gave titles out for being seeded #1...I thought you actually had to - you know, PLAY the games and WIN the titles. By your criteria then, a more apt comparison is 'Atlanta Braves-esque'...a top seeding, then an embarrassing early loss when it matters.

Why would you celebrate a #1 seed. That would be not quite as ridiculous as cutting down the nets for tying for the best record during a conference regular season while playing an unbalanced scheduled.

I guess that you missed where he said ACC tournament champions? I thought you actually had to- you know - have some reading COMPREHENSION to respond to columns.

Perhaps, though, you were ignoring the conference titles. Coach K has won 3 titles in 22 years of playing in the NCAA tournament against a field of 64(65). He has 78.2 winning percentage. He has won a title 13.6% of the time. There has't been a coach with as good of a record since Wooden. The closest was Bob Knight, with 3 titles in 24 appearances but only a 66.7 winning percentage. Dean Smith is nowhere near with two title in 27 years, nor is Roy Williams with only one title in 17 years. The Braves (also my team) won one title in 14 years against a field of 8 for 10 of those years and field of 4 for 4 of those years. They comiled a 52.9 winning percentage.

Man, am I silly. Feeding the trolls.

NOTE edited Dean from one to two titles. Thanks Indoor66! I guess I either wanted Georgetown to not throw the ball away or Webber not to call that timeout. Anyway point still stands 3/22 > 3/24 > 2/27

[throatybeard]

Yo Hurley, would you characterize what Hendo's elbow did to Hansbrough as a faceplant? I'm trying to get the technical jargon straight here.

[Indoor66]

Why would you celebrate a #1 seed. That would be not quite as ridiculous as cutting down the nets for tying for the best record during a conference regular season while playing an unbalanced scheduled.

I guess that you missed where he said ACC tournament champions? I thought you actually had to- you know - have some reading COMPREHENSION to respond to columns.

Perhaps, though, you were ignoring the conference titles. Coach K has won 3 titles in 22 years of playing in the NCAA tournament against a field of 64(65). He has 78.2 winning percentage. He has won a title 13.6% of the time. There has't been a coach with as good of a record since Wooden. The closest was Bob Knight, with 3 titles in 24 appearances but only a 66.7 winning percentage. Dean Smith is nowhere near with one title in 27 years, nor is Roy Williams with only one title in 17 years. The Braves (also my team) won one title in 14 years against a field of 8 for 10 of those years and field of 4 for 4 of those years. They comiled a 52.9 winning percentage.

Man, am I silly. Feeding the trolls.

I think El Deano won 2 titles - '82 & '93...

[hurleyfor3]

I'd call it more like a noseplant.

[Milbarge]

Also, I think this should be referred to as the "Hendercident."

Actually, I prefer the "Hendo Suspendo," but that's just me.

[freedevil]

I could tell from the minute Hansbrough got up from the floor yesterday that the media was going to jump all over Duke and Henderson for this play. I understand the attention, there's nothing better than a story like this in a rivalry like this.

But I'm sick and tired of people talking about Gerald Henderson and his actions like he is Albert freakin Haynesworth. He was out of control on one play, and it had major repercussions, but give the young man the benefit of the doubt and let the suspension speak for itself.

Unfortunately, the media and Heels fans are going to milk this for years, meanwhile, not one of them will ever admit that they booed Luol as he lay unconscious on the floor.

GTHC GTH

[dcarp23]

What was the Deng incident?

[Bob Green]

.....link titled, "The last time it got really rough." David Noel slammed Luol Deng's head into the deck.

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

[jagger]

I can't speak with authority about all UNC fans, but around campus in Chapel Hill, I've heard many actually giving Gerald the benefit of the doubt, saying it looked like an accident.

Although, to be fair, there was also a letter from a UNC alum in today's Daily Tar Heel accusing Coach K of implementing a system that "promotes vicious hits and a win-at-all-costs mentality."

[Channing]

I usually enjoy his writings . . . but this is the worst recount of what happened that I have read:

(source: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/index?name=simmons)

"4. I don't mean to pile on Billy Packer here -- OK, maybe I do -- but when you're already considered to be one of the biggest apologists on the planet for Duke basketball, is it really a good idea to keep making excuses for a Duke player after he just threw a malicious elbow at Carolina's best player with 15 seconds remaining in an 12-point game?"


First off, Billy Packer is no Duke apologist. Second off he goes on to bash Coach K a little. While K's comments might not have been necessary, he has been misquoted, and that second sentence of his has been left off of EVERY media recount I have heard.

[dukelifer]

I can't speak with authority about all UNC fans, but around campus in Chapel Hill, I've heard many actually giving Gerald the benefit of the doubt, saying it looked like an accident.

Although, to be fair, there was also a letter from a UNC alum in today's Daily Tar Heel accusing Coach K of implementing a system that "promotes vicious hits and a win-at-all-costs mentality."

There are many many Duke haters out there- many more than UNC haters. It is just how it is. No matter what happens- the haters will spin it. Believe me, when UNC stumbles in the next few games- GH will be blamed by many, many UNC fans- unless Hansblah can continue to dominate.

[jipops]

I'll say this over and over for years. Every single comment I've heard in the media says the suspension is justified but I vehemently disagree with this. Someone please explain how it is justified?

The ACC describes a play warranting a one-game suspension as being "combative" in nature. How in the wide-wide world of sports is Henderson's foul "combative"!!? The kid went up for a block, the ball changed direction as he was in mid-flight while TH's hands went down, and Henderson comes down with his elbow having been exposed after swiping for the ball. What was the kid supposed to do!!??... magically change direction in mid-flight?... not play hard when the opponent is still playing hard? If what Gerald did fits the criteria for an ejection then how on this green earth have we not seen more ejections THIS season?

Seriously, I just don't get the justification in the suspension. Firstly, if blood had not been drawn there probably would have been no ejection. Back when Loul's head was banged to the floor in the Dean Dome there was no blood, hence no ejection. Heck, I don't think there was even a foul called in that one. Secondly, this took place at the Dean Dome so the official had to make a call carrying repercussions or else the crowd would become even more belligerent. I'm not naive to the fact that had this taken place in Cameron on a Dukie, our crowd would be belligerent as well. But the fact is Karl Hess made the call to appease whoever happened to be the home folks in such a way to keep the crowd in a order. Well this just sucks for guy that was simply trying to make an aggressive play with absolutely no intent on hurting anyone. The fact that he happened to land on Hansbrough's face which was exposed is very unfortunate. Yes, it very much sucked for TH too. I truly do admire the kid and it's very easy to see why K recruited him (for many many reasons). He's got the heart of the lion, unfortunately for UNC he's the only guy who has any at all.

If the tables were turned and TH had landed a hard foul such as this on Gerald in Cameron would I feel the same way as this situation? Absolutely. The reason being because TH is not a dirty player either. He's extremely intense and wants to win and out-hustle everyone, but no way is he the type to actually try and hurt someone. He wants to compete, same as Gerald wanted to defend the basket.

Gerald is about as classy as classy can get. He's exhibited nothing but a high level of character all throughout the season. Yesterday's events do nothing to change that.

I'm disgusted with all the overblown logic having been thrown around about this play. Guess I should have a expected it. There was nothing here but two guys continuing to play hard and bodies collided in such a way to cause an injury. There was very clearly no intent (this was even stated by UNC players btw) and nothing at all malicious. So again, what exactly warrants a one-game suspension for this given what the ACC defines as being an action warranting such a suspension? Someone please explain this. I have heard nothing but very weak arguments for this. And as you can tell I'm a little ticked about it.

I think we'll really get an idea on how big of a deal it is for us to lose Gerald. I actually expect us to lose to State on Thursday. This is not at all the same Pack team we beat by 20.

[MulletMan]

Here's the thing Jipops, Henderson DID hit him, it DID draw blood, and it WAS in the Dean Dome. It doesn't matter what might have happened on that play the other 99 times it occured, all that matters is what DID happen. I was truly pleased that Gerald went up hard for the block, and was not going to let Hansbrough get the easy dunk. However, when you make the decision to go for the hard foul, you have to understand that the possibility for a flagrant, or intentional foul or ejection may result. Unfortunately, I think that the refs had no choice to eject Gerald... for his own safety and the safety of the other players on the court. The fact of the matter is that Gerald's actions earned him a suspension... perhaps we should just accept that fact, be happy that he didn't earn a further suspension upon ACC review, be thankful that Hansbrough wasn't injured more than he was, and move on to get ready for the ACC and NCAA tourneys.

[VaDukie]

The more I've looked at this clip, the more I realize the truth that this was a play clearly meant to inflict injury, and it worked. You don't draw that type of contact unless you mean to inflict harm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgGqRZQ8G1g

[365Duke]

Man you don't know how close you came to jumping to the top of the ignore list!!! ;) LOL

[Susan]

What was the Deng incident?

This was the Deng incident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQGYjHZQBAk

[gep]

Regarding the Deng incident... I must admit I kinda forgot about that one. I think that the main reason for that, and why this TH foul appears worse... is the blood. If Loul had blood pouring out of his mouth and/or nose, I probably wouldn't forget that image. But, really, Loul could have been injured much worse than TH apparently was even without any sign of blood at all... and without blood, the foul on TH wouldn't have gotten much notice at all. I'm just sorry that it turned out the way that it did... just an unfortunate circumstance.

[Deladev]

An aside, if you will. Billy Packer has NEVER championed Duke. Through the years he made lots of us REALLY MAD with his biased comments.

Therefor, I tend to believe the guy now. Yesterday he threw us a tiny bone --but I think he knows his stuff...small Praise Indeed !

Deladev for Duke and Jon

[Lord Ash]

I doubt this post will last, but my response:

As I said already; he was already leaping when the ball changed direction. It seemed to me he was trying for a horizontal swipe block, not a vertical, up and down block like centers like do. The ball was knocked back by the blond Duke player, TH's head and body were turned, his arm pulled back and down, so that rather than jumping into his side and underarm as he would have and swiping across the top of the hands, instead Henderson came up into TH's now lowered head area... then Henderson started to twist his body back as well to track the ball while now being in mid-air and trying not to come down without good footing and on top of TH, and off balance reacted by bringing his arm back towards the rapidly leaving ball, or more accurately DOWN, as he couldn't bring it BACK from the position he was in, and right into TH's now lowered nose and head... a bad result, for sure, but I really, really don't think intentional.

I think this is literally the physics of what happened, and I think it was just an unfortunate physical and literal "turn for the worse."

As for the players and all being just civil for show but seething and furious and sure it was on purpose inside... I don't buy it. When teams or players or coaches are pissed, they don't mind saying/showing it. That is how you send a message when you feel you need to send one. These guys all know each other, some better than others, all play together (fans take the rivalry much hotter than players often) and I think to them, who have played ball for YEARS and seen all sorts of bad shots, they clearly understand it wasn't intentional. Coach Williams said he knew Gerald and his family (remember, he comes from a serious basketball bloodline, with a father being an NBA player) and didn't believe he meant anything by it. Gerald said, multiple times, that he very much didn't mean to hurt TH. Lawson actually laughed a bit at the whole thing and said some ice would take care of it. Coack K certainly didn't think it was done on purpose. Wright agreed and said it was just part of the game. Come on.

[DukeBlood]

Did you watch that clip? Come on now. It had nothing to do with Gerald Henderson and Tyler Hans. He was making a joke.

At first I was upset, but then i watched the clip. Was a huge sigh of relief.

[JBDuke]

I doubt this post will last, but my response:

As I said already; he was already leaping when the ball changed direction. It seemed to me he was trying for a horizontal swipe block, not a vertical, up and down block like centers like do. The ball was knocked back by the blond Duke player, TH's head and body were turned, his arm pulled back and down, so that rather than jumping into his side and underarm as he would have and swiping across the top of the hands, instead Henderson came up into TH's now lowered head area... then Henderson started to twist his body back as well to track the ball while now being in mid-air and trying not to come down without good footing and on top of TH, and off balance reacted by bringing his arm back towards the rapidly leaving ball, or more accurately DOWN, as he couldn't bring it BACK from the position he was in, and right into TH's now lowered nose and head... a bad result, for sure, but I really, really don't think intentional.

I think this is literally the physics of what happened, and I think it was just an unfortunate physical and literal "turn for the worse."

As for the players and all being just civil for show but seething and furious and sure it was on purpose inside... I don't buy it. When teams or players or coaches are pissed, they don't mind saying/showing it. That is how you send a message when you feel you need to send one. These guys all know each other, some better than others, all play together (fans take the rivalry much hotter than players often) and I think to them, who have played ball for YEARS and seen all sorts of bad shots, they clearly understand it wasn't intentional. Coach Williams said he knew Gerald and his family (remember, he comes from a serious basketball bloodline, with a father being an NBA player) and didn't believe he meant anything by it. Gerald said, multiple times, that he very much didn't mean to hurt TH. Lawson actually laughed a bit at the whole thing and said some ice would take care of it. Coack K certainly didn't think it was done on purpose. Wright agreed and said it was just part of the game. Come on.

Repeat after me: "I will not post a reply until I have actually read a post and viewed its attachments." Now repeat 50 times.

[VaDukie]

Sorry Lord Ash, after watching the Wade clip again today I thought I'd post it and have some fun. I completely agree with what you have to say.

[phaedrus]

the clip of this play has now been watched millions of times, but i haven't seen anyone mention that hansbrough clearly traveled before the hit. he picks up his pivot foot and moves it about 2 feet forward. maybe we had just taken that for granted.

[BDevilU]

I just caught a brief discussion of the incident again tonight on ESPN, mostly regarding the suspension. ESPN has now cut down the frame and angle so that viewers completely miss the ball being deflected. They showed the replay several times zoomed in on Henderson and his "reckless" attack on poor Hans. They've made it look like Hans was just standing in the lane minding his own business when here comes a flying elbow from Henderson... out of nowhere, pro wrestling style, off the top rope. It could have been a deadball from the footage I just saw. Disgusting, really.

Next, the talking heads... primarily Stacey Dales... wagged those heads and agreed with the severity of the penalties involved. The bombshell came when Stacey attempted to help us understand the mindset and situation of this troubled young Freshman. This is not an exact quote, but she reminded us that he is "just a Freshman in a big game, with a lot of emotion, versus a rival, after being heckled by your own fans...."

At this point, my mind shut down. Huh? Henderson heckled by Duke fans? In this game? Ever? Does someone need to remind Stacey that the Dean Dome is UNC's homecourt and that any heckling must have been from fans in a more sissified shade of blue?

Stacey then went on to discuss Florida State's chances at the big dance... with star player "Al Horton"....

[SeattleIrish]

:D Well done, VA Dukie. Well done.

s.i.

[Duke15304]

Did anybody else hear Mike and Mike this morning saying the Henderson shoulndt have done it, it was a dirty play, and it is irrevlant that Roy had his starters on the floor, that show has become a joke

[devildownunder]

This is what is so discouraging for me about the last few years. It seems like we just continue to have this non-stop string of controveries that get seized upon and blown all out of proportion. If we win, there's a freaking controversy. If we lose, there's some more controversy. If Coach K says one thing, the context is adjusted to create controversy. Melchionni gets kicked in the face, and it's a 3 second replay, never mentioned again. But let anything make Duke look bad, and you have ESPN, myriad hack writers, and 1000000000 youtube amateur producers piling on. It just never stops these days. I guess it's nice to have attention, because it means you've been successful, but damn it get's old being cast as Darth Vader every week.


when we are racking up yet another 30-win season, all of this hatred is a lot easier to blow off. For us to get to 30 wins this year, we would need a final four run, and that is unlikely, to put it extremely mildly.

[Tirade]

If it was possible to take this EXACT same situation from Sunday’s game, but change some of the variables: Rewind 2 years, change venues to Cameron, and swap out Henderson for McCants and Tyler for JJ. How would you all feel if McCants hammered JJ across the nose resulting in him having to wear a face mask through the post-season…even if it wasn’t an intentional blow?

[kjo3444]

Why would you celebrate a #1 seed. That would be not quite as ridiculous as cutting down the nets for tying for the best record during a conference regular season while playing an unbalanced scheduled.

I guess that you missed where he said ACC tournament champions? I thought you actually had to- you know - have some reading COMPREHENSION to respond to columns.

Perhaps, though, you were ignoring the conference titles. Coach K has won 3 titles in 22 years of playing in the NCAA tournament against a field of 64(65). He has 78.2 winning percentage. He has won a title 13.6% of the time. There has't been a coach with as good of a record since Wooden. The closest was Bob Knight, with 3 titles in 24 appearances but only a 66.7 winning percentage. Dean Smith is nowhere near with two title in 27 years, nor is Roy Williams with only one title in 17 years. The Braves (also my team) won one title in 14 years against a field of 8 for 10 of those years and field of 4 for 4 of those years. They comiled a 52.9 winning percentage.

Man, am I silly. Feeding the trolls.

NOTE edited Dean from one to two titles. Thanks Indoor66! I guess I either wanted Georgetown to not throw the ball away or Webber not to call that timeout. Anyway point still stands 3/22 > 3/24 > 2/27


The original post compared Duke to the Yankees. In my opinion, they are only comparable in that the fan bases are geographically similar.

I am not trolling - my point was (and continues to be) that the Yankees win WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS, including 6 in the last 10 years, whereas Duke has won 1 in the last 14. So...not so much, and the original post is incorrect in my opinion. Hence my point that Duke is more like the Angels, who have also won 1 championship title in the last 14 years.

If you want to discuss ACC regular season success (and clearly you do and should, given how well Duke has done), then as I stated, the more apt comparison is to the Braves, who do well in the regular season, and then crap the bed when the post season comes calling. Nothing to be ashamed of, but let's differentiate between the Yankees success and Duke's.

[throatybeard]

The original post compared Duke to the Yankees. In my opinion, they are only comparable in that the fan bases are geographically similar.

In what respect? The degree of geographic dispersion, or the nature of it? (Primarily, but not exclusively east coast).

If it's merely degree, arguably a bunch of other teams have national fanbases. Carolina has more apparel sales than we do and you see their gear all over the country. The Red Sox, Cubs, Cowboys, Lakers, and Notre Dame all have at least as dispersed fanbases.

[Duvall]

I am not trolling - my point was (and continues to be) that the Yankees win WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS, including 6 in the last 10 years,

Look, why don't you come back when you have your facts straight, and an argument worth making? I'm sure we'll get off to a better start then.

[DankeShane]

The original post compared Duke to the Yankees. In my opinion, they are only comparable in that the fan bases are geographically similar.

I am not trolling - my point was (and continues to be) that the Yankees win WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS, including 6 in the last 10 years, whereas Duke has won 1 in the last 14. So...not so much, and the original post is incorrect in my opinion. Hence my point that Duke is more like the Angels, who have also won 1 championship title in the last 14 years.

If you want to discuss ACC regular season success (and clearly you do and should, given how well Duke has done), then as I stated, the more apt comparison is to the Braves, who do well in the regular season, and then crap the bed when the post season comes calling. Nothing to be ashamed of, but let's differentiate between the Yankees success and Duke's.

I agree. I absolutely despise the Duke = Yankees comparison, because even though lots of people hate the Yankees, they have the largest base of support in baseball. I saw a poll on ESPN last year where people voted on their favorite club and the Yankees eclipsed everyone else, it was like 40% of all voters said they were Yankees fans, the next closest was 15% Red Sox or something.

Not only is Duke loathed, but we have to have one of the smallest fan bases in college sports of the major schools.

[throatybeard]

In the last 10 seasons (1997-2006), the NYY have three titles, in 1998, 1999 and 2000. Not six. They also had one in 1996.

As to the purported similar degree to which the Braves and Duke are "crapping the bed" in the post season, the comparison is irrelevant.

The Braves and the NYY play in a best-of-5/7 eight-team (three-round) tournament, founded upon a six-month RS. Duke plays in a single-elimination, 64-team (six round) tournament, founded on basically a 3-month RS. The comparison is apples to broccolini.

[bird]

In soccer I hear discussion sometimes whether a game result is "fair" -- which I take to mean that the score actually reflects the comparative quality of play on the field. Soccer results can be random, a lucky strike can outweigh otherwise dominant play.

Which leads me to the following point: the amount of randomness (luck) in deciding game outcomes varies between sports.

My guess is that the results of (American) football games more closely track the actual quality of the teams and play in an individual game than most major sports. On the other hand, results in individual baseball games are comparatively random. Hence, a one-game championship is OK in football, but a multigame series is needed in baseball.

I would rank college basketball as more random than the average sport. Indeed, I think the randomness is quite comparable to baseball.

Here's how I would rank some sports from less random to more random:

Swimming
Track (running events)
NFL football
(American) collegiate football
Ice Hockey
NBA basketball
Collegiate basketball
Soccer
LAX
ML Baseball

[kjo3444]

In the last 10 seasons (1997-2006), the NYY have three titles, in 1998, 1999 and 2000. Not six. They also had one in 1996.

As to the purported similar degree to which the Braves and Duke are "crapping the bed" in the post season, the comparison is irrelevant.

The Braves and the NYY play in a best-of-5/7 eight-team (three-round) tournament, founded upon a six-month RS. Duke plays in a single-elimination, 64-team (six round) tournament, founded on basically a 3-month RS. The comparison is apples to broccolini.

Regardless of whether it is 6 or 4, both are still way more than 1 in 14.

You are correct in that the formats of the seasons (RS and Post) are apples to broccolini. The original point made that i am refuting was the overall success of the two teams.

Again, the Yankees win WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS (4 in 11 years, as my researchers have since confirmed). Duke doesn't - Duke does well in the regular season. Your format discussion may explain some of the "WHYs", but it doesn't address the fact that the RESULTS (the original point) are apples to broccolini.

[oso diablo]

And even if all the Duke fans think it was an accident, there's no way to convince anybody else to believe that.

you're probably right, but i'm just going to tell folks that i agree with Coach Williams and Wayne Ellington.

[phaedrus]

I would rank college basketball as more random than the average sport. Indeed, I think the randomness is quite comparable to baseball.

Here's how I would rank some sports from less random to more random:

Swimming
Track (running events)
NFL football
(American) collegiate football
Ice Hockey
NBA basketball
Collegiate basketball
Soccer
LAX
ML Baseball

maybe true if you're talking about a single game, but if you're talking about winning championships, the 7-game series are necessarily least random, and 6 consecutive single-elimination games are most random (although sometimes a college football season is basically 12 single-elimination games). how many championships would we have since '99 if they played 7-game series? 99? 00? 02? 04? 05? 06? how often does the best team in the country win? half the time, if that? it's the nature of college basketball - you get the most exciting weeks in sports, you lose a fair way to reward the best team.

[throatybeard]

As long as you're snipping on the front end (1996) and ignoring the previous 18 years when the NYY didn't do a thing, please note that Duke won 3 titles in 11 seasons.

[basketball_fan]

Ok...Boston College January 28, 2007. Duke is up by 12 with 1:09 to play. Henderson checks in to join McRoberts, Paulus, Nelson, and Scheyer. Paulus hits Nelson for a layup with :24 left. All five players are on the court when the game ends.

If you want one specific to UNC, go back to the 2003 ACC Tourney. Chris Duhon plays the entire 40 minutes even though Duke is up 17 (after a Duhon assist) with 1:00 minute to play.

This tactic of leaving starters in at the end of a game, even with a double digit lead, is not unique to UNC.