Off the bench...Curry vs. Dawkins

[coot]

It's pretty obvious that Kyrie, Nolan, Singler, MP1, MP2 are the designated starters right now for general purposes. Smaller lineups depending on the opponent could have Curry or Dawkins playing starter minutes.

Coach K usually is not one to have a 9 or 10 man rotation when it comes to the big games. Most of the time he goes with 7-8 players with a few other dangling minutes for 9 and 10 in the rotation maybe.

So, here's my question: Who will be the 1st guy off the bench at guard? Curry, Dawkins, other??? I think it will be Dawkins first. He looks so much stronger physically than Curry. I'm glad that everyone is high on Curry, but I don't know that he can really play ahead of Dawkins based on the little that I've seen. Does anyone agree or have a different view on this? I know Curry, Dawkins, and Thorton will all get some minutes. But, who will K go to for 15 minutes in the big games. Seems that Dawkins is a little more physically ready than Curry.

I also don't think Curry looks strong enough with the ball to play point for any long period of time against top 25 teams. It seems that he fits at the 2 position better. Especially considering that we have Kyrie, Thorton, and Nolan for point rotation.

Thoughts?

[DevilHorns]

I think both will have ample playing time... but Curry will be our 6th man. K recently made comments stating something to the effect of Dawkins actually being a sort of pseudo-freshman as he would've been a part of this incoming class had he not so graciously decided to enroll early and nail a few key 3s to get us into the Final Four.

Curry is an absolute beast. He's our best 3 point shooter with the best range (K's words, not mine). And most importantly, he can move with the ball very fluidly. I'm not sure how much Dawkins' handle has improved, but if we are looking to be in a run run run situation, Curry seems to be better suited for that up-tempo game plan. Defensively, Curry I think is better suited against guards, while Dawkins would also be able to play the 3 on defense if required.

Dawkins is a dead-eye from 3 range, and incredibly streaky at that (remember the Badger game), and I'm sure he will get his solid slate of minutes this year.

[DukieInBrasil]

unless K frequently goes with a multi-substitution for the first sub of the game I can see Seth coming in as a 3rd guard (2nd 2G and 2nd PG at the same time!!!) with Kyle being a kinda 3/4. That is of course if one of the first subs is always a Plumlee. If K wants to sub for either Nolan or Kyrie first, I'd say Seth would almost always get the call over Dawkins. But if K wanted to sub for 2 or more guys I can see Dawkins coming in with Seth.
As I see it Seth has an advantage in experience, minutes played, ball-handling and performance under pressure (he was after all the primary focus of Liberty's offense for a whole year (not to discount Dre's pair of huge 3s in the tourney)). Dre has a height and strength advantage.

[MChambers]

Coach K usually is not one to have a 9 or 10 man rotation when it comes to the big games. Most of the time he goes with 7-8 players with a few other dangling minutes for 9 and 10 in the rotation maybe.

So, here's my question: Who will be the 1st guy off the bench at guard? Curry, Dawkins, other???
Given the tempo of games this year, with full or three - quarter court pressing, both will get plenty of time. Even in big games.

[johnb]

I'd assume that even the coaches can't assume who's going to earn those minutes.

[Duke of Nashville]

My insight is pretty minimal in this situation because so much is earned during the offseason/preseason. As we learned in 2009 (E-Will) you can easily be inserted into the starting line-up by working your butt off. But I think it that it could depend who gained more from their experiences last year.

Dawkins: Foregoing his senior campaign and enrolling early to make huge impacts in vital games with minimal playing time on a National Championship team.

OR

Curry: Sitting out after his freshman year of college due to transfer rules and providing a huge role of #1 scorer on the scout team for the National Champion team. (Nolan also stated that he got better by having Curry on the scout team)

Who really knows. What I do know is that both of these guys are amazing basketball players.

[SilkyJ]

We can discuss and debate all we want, and I'm sure there will be ample time to throughout the season as both guys have good and less than stellar performances, but Krzyzewski has basically said Curry will be our 6th man and is "a starter" on this team, even if he won't actually start. I don't think he'll play as many minutes as Kyrie or Nolan, I'm guessing more like 20-25mpg for him and more like 27-32 for Kyrie and Nolan, but it'll be more than Andre, who's game is much more one-dimensional and not as developed as Curry's.

[Kedsy]

Coach K usually is not one to have a 9 or 10 man rotation when it comes to the big games. Most of the time he goes with 7-8 players with a few other dangling minutes for 9 and 10 in the rotation maybe.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "big games," but the idea that K usually (or even often) plays a 7 man rotation is a myth. He normally plays at least 8 and when he has quality depth he goes further.

I expect this year we will play a solid 8 man rotation, with Seth, Andre, and Ryan all getting ample minutes (and thus I personally think your question is moot). I don't have a feel yet for how many minutes Josh and Tyler will get -- K says they'll all play, and the up tempo, full court defense he has promised us suggests a deep rotation, but it's also possible that once we get toward the end of the ACC schedule and into the tournaments their minutes will dwindle. No way to tell at this stage.

[Mike Corey]

If the entire season were played out today, there would be at least nine guys logging significant minutes.

As to Curry v. Dawkins, have to think that Curry beats him off the bench right now, but that can very well change...and regardless, as has been noted above, both will bring a lot to each game.

We have an embarrassment of riches at guard. And having them all working together this past summer and this season in practice is going to translate into serious improvement from November to March.

[D.C. Devil]

I agree. Curry is a third year player with a full year as a starter and a real knack for scoring. Plus, all the Devils rave about his game on the practice squad last year. I have to believe that he's a better all-around option than Andre at this point.

And whether it's blind hope or insight, I think that Hairston will contribute a solid 7-9 mpg even during conference play.


If the entire season were played out today, there would be at least nine guys logging significant minutes.

As to Curry v. Dawkins, have to think that Curry beats him off the bench right now, but that can very well change...and regardless, as has been noted above, both will bring a lot to each game.

We have an embarrassment of riches at guard. And having them all working together this past summer and this season in practice is going to translate into serious improvement from November to March.

[ACCBBallFan]

If Kyle plays SF, as most expect, Curry would be first guard off bench.

Irinically, if Kyle plays PF, Dre might start ahead of Seth because he is much taller and stronger.

I am assuming Dre plays about 15 MPG and Seth about 20 MPG.

[AZLA]

Can anyone speak to how well these two stack up defensively?

[Scorp4me]

If Kyle plays SF, as most expect, Curry would be first guard off bench.

Irinically, if Kyle plays PF, Dre might start ahead of Seth because he is much taller and stronger.

I am assuming Dre plays about 15 MPG and Seth about 20 MPG.

Those were my thoughts too ACCBBallFan. That being said I think the first substitutions will be Curry and Kelly off the bench.

[Saratoga2]

Josh is a real sleeper in the group. He is capable being effective in the running game and has decent offensive capability. The question is whether he can play DIV I defense from the outset. I am with those that think he will earn 7 to 9 minutes a game. Great to have the depth this year.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Josh is a real sleeper in the group. He is capable being effective in the running game and has decent offensive capability. The question is whether he can play DIV I defense from the outset. I am with those that think he will earn 7 to 9 minutes a game. Great to have the depth this year.

I think that Josh will also average 7-9 minutes during the season. But during the ACC season, those numbers will fall (prob around 5 min a game or even less). We saw the same pattern with both Dawkins and Kelly last year. With a deeper team this year, the end of the rotation won't see much playing time from January onwards.

[diveonthefloor]

IIRC,

K will definitely use 10 players and use them a lot. If they are productive and help the team.

The reason his rotations have been short recently is that his previous recent teams have not been deep.

[Cockabeau]

I'll take Curry for defense,ball handling AND shooting.

Andre is a great shooter but he is lagging in other parts. Ball handling is really critical for a guard. Lateral quickness-from what I have seen AD has not shown improvement in this area as well. The last Duke player I saw with great hops and limited lateral movement was Marty Pocius. BTA, Marty was not the shooter that Andre is.

[Kedsy]

Lateral quickness-from what I have seen AD has not shown improvement in this area as well.

Have you seen more than the Blue/White game?

[Cockabeau]

Have you seen more than the Blue/White game?

Yes. I saw all last season.

[Acymetric]

Yes. I saw all last season.

Not sure watching last season would show you what Andre had improved on since last season...with the off season of course being when most individual improvements are made. Might want to withhold judgment on Dre until you actually see him in a game.

[DevilWearsPrada]

Improvements are made gradually more practice to practice, pickup games, and regulation game to game. I think Seth and Dre will each have playing time. Dre is very athletic. But I think that Seth is more seasoned, and has wonderful court vision. Also, being schooled by Dell Curry and brother, Steph.

Duke will be deep this year. And I hope to see 10 players play!!! No reason, not too. How long has it been since Duke mens BB team has been this deep? 98/99 team?

And for Duke not to be athletic.......... hehe Must be because they are so academic.

[clg003]

Unless Dawkins has made a leap like Elliot Williams did in year 2. Curry is the 6th man without a question. And he will be the best 6th man we have ever had and I am including Magette in that equation.

So I am not sure how there is even a question about it.

Dawkins struggled at team defense last year and was extremely streaky on O. I get the fan following but I don't get where people get this crazy grade out of Dawkins. I love the kid and I appreciate all he did to help us win last year but Curry was a big player for the team USA and likely owned Dawkins in practice last year. Not to mention he also averaged 20 points a game 2 seasons ago. And yeah he put up the same type of numbers against ACC teams.

I believe Curry will be brought along as a point as well. His brother had to rush and learn it later in his career because they thought his size dictated it at the NBA level. That was a family decision and not a team decision and I don't see Seth waiting as long as Steph did to make this move. I am sure that the Curry's believe that Seth's future in the NBA is as a point guard. And make no mistake about it Seth' is concerned about his NBA status.

[Poincaré]

Seth is something like 2 years older than Andre, right? I think that Seth will play more than the Baby-faced Killer, but I think that Andre will catch up a lot by the end of the season.

[Kedsy]

Curry is the 6th man without a question. And he will be the best 6th man we have ever had and I am including Magette in that equation.

That's a pretty bold statement about someone who in the last 20 months we've seen play a grand total of 15 minutes at the Blue/White game.


Lateral quickness-from what I have seen AD has not shown improvement in this area as well.


Yes. I saw all last season.

You saw last season? And when did you notice the lack of improvement?

Freshman year to sophomore year for most players is when the biggest improvement occurs. Perhaps we should allow some of Andre's sophomore year to unfold before we declare him unimproved.

[coot]

Unless Dawkins has made a leap like Elliot Williams did in year 2. Curry is the 6th man without a question. And he will be the best 6th man we have ever had and I am including Magette in that equation.

John Scheyer was a pretty good 6th man in his Soph year.

[Devilsfan]

With the improved play and added size evident in Ryan, MP 1 better not get too comfortable or the young gun from Raleigh might just take his place come ACC time.

[Cockabeau]

That's a pretty bold statement about someone who in the last 20 months we've seen play a grand total of 15 minutes at the Blue/White game.





You saw last season? And when did you notice the lack of improvement?

Freshman year to sophomore year for most players is when the biggest improvement occurs. Perhaps we should allow some of Andre's sophomore year to unfold before we declare him unimproved.

I saw all last season that Andre had trouble moving laterally for a guard and I saw all last season that Andre did not/could not handle the rock for a guard.

[Duvall]

I saw all last season

Well, that's the point. Last season is last season.

[NSDukeFan]

I saw all last season that Andre had trouble moving laterally for a guard and I saw all last season that Andre did not/could not handle the rock for a guard.

Al Featherston disagrees with you. From his fantastic article in the Blue Devil Tip-Off


Dawkins is convinced that he can be more than a three-point specialist this season. He has the strength and lateral quickness to be a shutdown perimeter defender and the hops to get into the lane.
"He has shown that he has the talent to be a very good player," (Chris) Collins said.

I just got my Blue Devil Tip-Off yesterday and really enjoyed Al Featherston's first article and Dan Wiederer's second article. It was well worth getting and I am looking forward to reading the rest.