Leadership in 2010-2011

[superdave]

After reading Dan Wiederer’s two columns this morning (Coach K quotes) (http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2010/10/17/1040107?sac=Home) ( Nolan article) (http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2010/10/17/1039600?sac=Sports), I wanted to get a discussion going about this year’s team from a leadership and chemistry perspective. We watched last year’s team really grow into a monster, that as Coach K said “spent a full five months sharpening its strengths and addressing its weaknesses.” But we lost three invaluable seniors who all knew their roles and were able to perform them exceptionally by March and April. I think Jon Scheyer was the cerebral leader, the Battier or Laettner type who would exploit an opponent’s weakness or make the opportunistic play, or just generally will his team to victory.

The Wiederer article on Nolan calls him the team’s “emotional leader,” which I think is an appropriate description. Nolan appears to be the ringleader and the most vocal. I think Kyle tends to lead more by example. Both can put the team on their back for stretches at a time. Nolan was Regional MVP and Kyle was Final Four MOP. We know we can count on these two, but the team will need the emergence of another voice in order to make a deep tourney run.

With such a young and different team this year, who emerges as the guy who fills the void left by Scheyer, Zoubek and LT? Who pulls the freshmen to the side when they make a dumb play or let the emotions get the best of them? Who demands the ball late in the game?

This team is a lot like last year’s team – solid core, some big unknowns, awesome potential. We know these guys will grow under Coach K, but who grows up the most and the quickest will determine who fills the void left by the graduates.

I see defensive execution as our biggest weakness going into the year. This team will struggle to replace Zoubek’s sheer mass and Lance’s ability to guard 4 positions. But they will be athletic enough to make up for that loss. Will the Plumlees be able to step up their rebounding and maintain discipline on D? I think this is a big question, but I really think Miles will show up big. Will we be able to change to a pressing – trapping – running game without making too many mistakes? I like our chances with this backcourt.

Leadership and chemistry will determine how well this group can maximize its potential by eliminating mistakes and addressing weaknesses, in addition to accepting their specific roles. I am sure of chemistry because with Nolan around, these guys will remain loose and friends. But I think someone needs to turn into the “Coach on the Floor” to keep guys concentrating on their roles and keep the communication up. Who will it be? Can Kyrie Irving possibly be as good as advertised during practice and in the locker room, as well as in games? Will our front court grow during the season as much as last year’s front court? Do we get another huge leap from Nolan this year or will Kyle stake claim to the Naismith early and often?

We know the talent is there, but who will make sure this team realizes its potential and leaves nothing on the table?

My bet is on Kyrie Irving to step into that role on offense and Miles to do it on defense. Neither will begin the season with that ability in hand, but both will grow into by Feb/March. Should be fun to watch!

[Kedsy]

We know we can count on these two, but the team will need the emergence of another voice in order to make a deep tourney run.

On what do you base this statement? Why would the team "need" the further "emergence" of anyone in order to do anything?


I see defensive execution as our biggest weakness going into the year. This team will struggle to replace Zoubek’s sheer mass and Lance’s ability to guard 4 positions.

I agree that defensive execution is often the biggest challenge for a young Duke team. Fortunately, we'll have Nolan and Kyle to help the younger guys learn.

Personally, I don't think this team will "struggle" to replace anything, since (as has been discussed at length elsewhere) the team will be playing a completely different style from last year on both offense and defense. Historically, Duke teams have not rebounded all that well, making up for it by pushing the opposing perimeter beyond its comfort zone and by forcing turnovers. It appears as if the team will be a more "typical" Duke team in that regard. Also, with Kyle's versatility and our enormously deep, quick backcourt, I don't think we'll need someone to guard four positions either (unless you count Kyle). This is especially true if we are planning to press full (or three quarter) court most of the time, as K recently said.


My bet is on Kyrie Irving to step into that role on offense and Miles to do it on defense. Neither will begin the season with that ability in hand, but both will grow into by Feb/March. Should be fun to watch!

Whether we "need" it or not, I agree with you that Kyrie will be a leader on offense. I suspect Nolan will be the quarterback on defense, and even if it's not him I don't see Miles's personality as being all that assertive on the floor.

[superdave]

On what do you base this statement? Why would the team "need" the further "emergence" of anyone in order to do anything?

I agree that defensive execution is often the biggest challenge for a young Duke team. Fortunately, we'll have Nolan and Kyle to help the younger guys learn.

Personally, I don't think this team will "struggle" to replace anything, since (as has been discussed at length elsewhere) the team will be playing a completely different style from last year on both offense and defense. Historically, Duke teams have not rebounded all that well, making up for it by pushing the opposing perimeter beyond its comfort zone and by forcing turnovers. It appears as if the team will be a more "typical" Duke team in that regard. Also, with Kyle's versatility and our enormously deep, quick backcourt, I don't think we'll need someone to guard four positions either (unless you count Kyle). This is especially true if we are planning to press full (or three quarter) court most of the time, as K recently said.

Whether we "need" it or not, I agree with you that Kyrie will be a leader on offense. I suspect Nolan will be the quarterback on defense, and even if it's not him I don't see Miles's personality as being all that assertive on the floor.

I thought that last year Lance Thomas was often the strongest, most demonstrative voice in the huddle. It does make sense that Nolan could be that guy this year, but if so this year, why not last year? Does Nolan need to grow in this role? Or would it come from a player other than Kyle or Nolan (most likely Irving)? I see a void based on three senior starters departing and am not 100% sure how it gets filled.

As for Miles, I think he will anchor the post for us very well. I'd bet 10-10 for him and at least Honorable Mention All-Defense. This will be his third year in coach K's defensive scheme and I think he makes a big leap.

[NSDukeFan]

On what do you base this statement? Why would the team "need" the further "emergence" of anyone in order to do anything?

I also don't see the need for any other leaders to emerge other than our two senior pre-season all-american candidates. The other players can focus on their roles.

I agree that defensive execution is often the biggest challenge for a young Duke team. Fortunately, we'll have Nolan and Kyle to help the younger guys learn.

Personally, I don't think this team will "struggle" to replace anything, since (as has been discussed at length elsewhere) the team will be playing a completely different style from last year on both offense and defense. Historically, Duke teams have not rebounded all that well, making up for it by pushing the opposing perimeter beyond its comfort zone and by forcing turnovers. It appears as if the team will be a more "typical" Duke team in that regard. Also, with Kyle's versatility and our enormously deep, quick backcourt, I don't think we'll need someone to guard four positions either (unless you count Kyle). This is especially true if we are planning to press full (or three quarter) court most of the time, as K recently said.

I am very excited and interested to see how this team progresses defensively. I hope they keep improving all year long.


Whether we "need" it or not, I agree with you that Kyrie will be a leader on offense. I suspect Nolan will be the quarterback on defense, and even if it's not him I don't see Miles's personality as being all that assertive on the floor.

Based on some of K's comments last year about how strong he felt Kyle's D was, I wonder if he might be the defensive quarterback. Or maybe our two seniors will both be leaders of our D. I hope and expect they, along with the coaching staff, will improve the team's defensive communication and positioning.

[BoozerWasFouled]

On what do you base this statement? Why would the team "need" the further "emergence" of anyone in order to do anything?

Oh I disagree. There are some things you need no matter style you play. Interior defense is one. Rebounding another. And Coach K has talked all summer about replacing vocal leadership and how someone needs to emerge on this front.

These are all things Duke lost from last year and they will have to be replaced if this team is going to capitalize on its promise.

[ACCBBallFan]

Though he will not see the floor much, Tyler Thornton is a natural leader. In videos, both Kyrie and Josh defer to him.

He appears to be very vocal when he is in the game.

[-jk]

I thought that last year Lance Thomas was often the strongest, most demonstrative voice in the huddle. It does make sense that Nolan could be that guy this year, but if so this year, why not last year? Does Nolan need to grow in this role? Or would it come from a player other than Kyle or Nolan (most likely Irving)? I see a void based on three senior starters departing and am not 100% sure how it gets filled.

As for Miles, I think he will anchor the post for us very well. I'd bet 10-10 for him and at least Honorable Mention All-Defense. This will be his third year in coach K's defensive scheme and I think he makes a big leap.

If that bet is for Miles getting 10 rebounds per game, I'll take it. I think Shelden might be K's only player to average 10 boards per game in a season. I don't think Christian made it. Nor Brand. Nor Boozer. I think G-man with Foster did. Two players in almost 40 years - it's a lofty goal! (And if I'm misremembering, I'm sure someone can correct me.)

I'd love to see it happen; it would be a sea change in his game.

-jk

[COYS]

If that bet is for Miles getting 10 rebounds per game, I'll take it. I think Shelden might be K's only player to average 10 boards per game in a season. I don't think Christian made it. Nor Brand. Nor Boozer. I think G-man with Foster did. Two players in almost 40 years - it's a lofty goal! (And if I'm misremembering, I'm sure someone can correct me.)

I'd love to see it happen; it would be a sea change in his game.

-jk

To be fair to Miles, he was already an elite rebounder last season by rebound percentage .
. . Not Zoubek elite, but excellent nonetheless. I agree with you, though, that he won't average ten per game but I think that will be due to not playing enough minutes. If he somehow played 33 minutes per game, he could crack that double digit mark, but that's very unlikely to happen. However, if he improves his rebound rate slightly as a junior, he will still be an elite rebounder even if he doesn't average double figures.

[Mike Corey]

A funny thing happens on the way to March. And it's borne out of everything that happens on the court and off in the time between preseason and postseason. And it is perhaps the one aspect of the game that we know the least about when it comes to the team and players we follow so closely.

(That's by no means a bad thing, either.)

We glean things here and there from that which we observe, or that which coaches and journalists tell to the press (and now, that which we read via Twitter and its peers).

It's extremely difficult to extrapolate anything from all of that, however, except to trust in the staff and in the players they work with every day that relationships are being built and fortified to complement the work they're doing on the court and under the lights.

There's no science to it, per se. And there are always unpredictable factors that come into play and shake things up...sometimes in the form of personality conflicts; sometimes in the form of personal tragedy; sometimes in the form of questionable recreational activities; etc., etc.

Stars align at times, however, which certain leaders just have an ability to help make happen better than others. We saw that last year, where the combination of leaders knowing their role and roleplayers knowing theirs, on top of a heap of perseverance and trust and determination led to some pretty extraordinary things.

That can't be duplicated by moving one piece out and another piece in. And these guys surely know that.

Nolan and Jon were tremendous leaders, and they were as such well before last season. They learned a great deal from one another in the course of cultivating their friendship; many of those lessons are being passed down now, just as K envisions the "Duke Way" being handed down like an oral tradition from one generation to another.

Every team has to forge its own identity. But there are few better equipped as a college seniors to take the reigns as Nolan and his equally-but-differently-gifted teammate, Kyle Singler.

There are unique challenges for this team up-front, namely those of expectations, something that certainly existed a year ago, but to a very different degree...that's a lot for any team to handle, which is why repeat national champs are so rare in college basketball.

We sure are lucky to get to watch along the way. :)

[superdave]

To be fair to Miles, he was already an elite rebounder last season by rebound percentage .
. . Not Zoubek elite, but excellent nonetheless. I agree with you, though, that he won't average ten per game but I think that will be due to not playing enough minutes. If he somehow played 33 minutes per game, he could crack that double digit mark, but that's very unlikely to happen. However, if he improves his rebound rate slightly as a junior, he will still be an elite rebounder even if he doesn't average double figures.

Miles averaged 0.301 rebounds per minute last year to Zoubek's 0.414. That's a big difference. But Miles averaged 0.157 fouls per minute to Zoubek's 0.185. So perhaps Miles can stay on the floor longer and reach 8-9 rebounds per game, if not 10. My bet is between the beard and watching tape of Shelden all summer, he's going to be our stopper inside.

I will be interested in seeing if Kyle is more of a QB on defense than the past few years. He's capable and drew some tough assignments last year. We do need some big talkers on D though, as Lance and Brian grew into that role really well last year. It seems to be the final piece to being a great D under Coach K.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think this team is missing a vocal leader ala Paulus and Thomas. Scheyer was a great leader, but he did it ninja-style (ie quiet and by example). That fits Singler's personality and half of Nolan. I think Nolan is more of a vocal leader off the court and more of a silent leader on it.

While leadership can take many forms, I would like to see a vocal leader emerge. I think it will make the group tighter and give us more swagger. Of all of Thomas' attributes, his vocal leadership may be the most impressive of all.

[BD80]

To be fair to Miles, he was already an elite rebounder last season by rebound percentage .
. . Not Zoubek elite, but excellent nonetheless. ... if he improves his rebound rate slightly as a junior, he will still be an elite rebounder even if he doesn't average double figures.


Miles averaged 0.301 rebounds per minute last year to Zoubek's 0.414. That's a big difference. ...

I will be interested in seeing if Kyle is more of a QB on defense than the past few years. He's capable and drew some tough assignments last year. We do need some big talkers on D though, as Lance and Brian grew into that role really well last year. It seems to be the final piece to being a great D under Coach K.

I find it quite amusing that the Plumlees are being compared to Zoubek, and are found wanting, less than a year after Zoubek was relegated to the bench in favor of the Plumlees to great celebration on this board. Now Zoubek is the paradigm of rebounding? Sure, as a SENIOR, Zoubek excelled. Miles is a JUNIOR, and a less heralded recruit. Mason is a SOPHMORE. Zoubek was a very limited player, who used his frame and his height to best advantage - to excel in his fourth year in a role worked out with the coaching staff.

Miles may have some extra bulk this year, but he will never be the "tied to the post" player Zoubek was. Zoubek was such an effective offensive rebounder in part because he was not an option on offense. Zoubek's ONLY job on offense was to set picks and to get offensive rebounding position. The rest of the team essentially played 4 on 5 on offense. So yes, Zoubek was great as an offensive rebounder, but that was his chief role. Miles will be asked to do many of the things Z did last year, but he will also be expected to find holes in the defense and have his hands ready (and clear of opposing players) to receive passes in the post. He simply will NOT be able to get the same level of offensive rebounding position as Zoubek did. However, he may improve our offensive efficiency by scoring more in the post.

On defense, Miles will challege more shots that Z ever did, again pulling him out of rebounding position. Admittedly, Miles (and even moreso Mason) needs to learn when to attempt to block shots and when to hold position. Again, however, our defensive efficiency could improve because a shotblocker alters the shots opponents take - tending to force the opponent to attempt longer shots.

Don't compare the Plumlees to Zoubek, they have so much more to offer. Their roles will be much broader. And please don't take this as a slam on Z, I am on record as having been a longtime defender - and even incredibly predicted a year ago that Z would be drafted and would make an NBA roster - an opinion met with much derision at the time.

As for vocal leadership, it would be nice to have it coming from the frontcourt - meaning the back of the defense. Shane and Lance were perfect for the role because they could see the other players while still watching the ball. Kyle will hopefully be defending on the perimeter, which would make it more difficult for him to see the rest of the court while watching the ball and defending his man. Vocal leadership from Miles, Mason or Ryan would give them a big edge in staying on the floor.

[COYS]

Miles averaged 0.301 rebounds per minute last year to Zoubek's 0.414. That's a big difference. But Miles averaged 0.157 fouls per minute to Zoubek's 0.185. So perhaps Miles can stay on the floor longer and reach 8-9 rebounds per game, if not 10. My bet is between the beard and watching tape of Shelden all summer, he's going to be our stopper inside.

I will be interested in seeing if Kyle is more of a QB on defense than the past few years. He's capable and drew some tough assignments last year. We do need some big talkers on D though, as Lance and Brian grew into that role really well last year. It seems to be the final piece to being a great D under Coach K.

This is true, but Zoub's rebounding rate for his sophomore year was just a hair over 16% on the offensive glass and 19% on defense. Miles posted a 22% defensive rebounding rate last season. I'm not trying to say that Miles will be a better rebounder than Zoubek nor am I saying that Miles should try to "replace" Zoub's roll from last year. However, Miles has posted some encouraging rebounding numbers in his career thus far and I definitely think that he is capable being one of the best rebounders in college basketball this coming season.

Ideally, I think Miles would also be one of the primary communicators on defense, too, because he will likely be in the position to see plays develop better than Nolan or Singler. I think this will be one of the most interesting things to watch develop over the next season.

[ACCBBallFan]

If that bet is for Miles getting 10 rebounds per game, I'll take it. I think Shelden might be K's only player to average 10 boards per game in a season. I don't think Christian made it. Nor Brand. Nor Boozer. I think G-man with Foster did. Two players in almost 40 years - it's a lofty goal! (And if I'm misremembering, I'm sure someone can correct me.)

I'd love to see it happen; it would be a sea change in his game.

-jkAfter the success Duke had last year rotating two sets of bigs, I prefer to think in terms of what they get out of each position rather than each player.

The virtual Plumlee at center (siblings alternating every 4 minutes) would almost always be a double double and often a triple double.

At PF, having Ryan, Kyle sometimes and Josh at times would also be a stat stuffer to go along with Duke's main strengths coach K and Kyrie- Nolan - Kyle backed up by Dre, and Tyler.

Given ACC is relatively weak at center this year, the virtual Plumlee would be on a par with the ACC's best centers Tracy Smith and Jordan Williams, and surpass Tyler Zeller, Regge Johnson et al.

PF is a strength position for ACC with Jeff Allen, Joe Trapani, Chris Singleton, Mike Scott, John Henson but the Ryan-Josh-part Kyle trio would not be overhsadowed in total.

[Kedsy]

The virtual Plumlee at center (siblings alternating every 4 minutes) would almost always be a double double and often a triple double.

What would the third category in the "triple" be? Assists? Blocks? Hopefully not fouls or turnovers. None of these seem likely enough to happen "often." Or am I missing something?

[ACCBBallFan]

What would the third category in the "triple" be? Assists? Blocks? Hopefully not fouls or turnovers. None of these seem likely enough to happen "often." Or am I missing something?Yeh, probably should have phrased it "sometimes" rather than "often".

I was thinking blocks but that would be a lot. The best at UCONN, FSU and MS St guy sometimes get 6 or 7. So 5 apiece "often" would be a stretch.

They might "sometimes" challenge that double digit PF's high water mark too, but that's the beauty having two interchangeable guys is when one is foul trouble, no drop off playing the other more than 50%.

[Billy Dat]

A funny thing happens on the way to March. And it's borne out of everything that happens on the court and off in the time between preseason and postseason. And it is perhaps the one aspect of the game that we know the least about when it comes to the team and players we follow so closely.....

Your entire post (chopped off here for brevity, although it's worth reading in its entirety a few posts up) matches my thinking exactly.

It's easy to look at someone like Paulus who was very vocal and demonstrative and think he's a great leader. But, for all we know, he annoyed people and they respectfully tuned him out. Again, I am not saying that's what happened, but unless you are an insider, how can you know who the real leaders are, or who the rest of the team listens to?

Leadership should start with the captains - that's what the title is supposed to be about. Thinking of Nolan, though, it's easy to think he's a natural leader but if you read his quotes from the offseason, he said he would have left if Kyle left because he didn't want the responsibility of captain on his own. I think his actions tell a different story, particularly the articles about how he mentors other players who have lost their fathers, and the way he seems to play a big brother role to guys like Andre Dawkins. But, it's hard to judge the leaders from the outside. Kyle seems a leader by example type, and that's how I have seen him characterized.

I think superdave makes a good point about vocal leadership in the guise of getting on people when they aren't pulling their weight and/or working hard enough. By all accounts, that was Lance last year, and it appeared to also be Z, who I saw, many times, challenge Mason to "man up" when Z had to leave a game with foul trouble. That is a tricky road, you need to be respected enough for people to listen but also not such an a-hole that people hate you - unless you are the best player on the team in which case you can be both (hello #32). I really don't know who plays that role this year.

[SilkyJ]

A funny thing happens on the way to March. And it's borne out of everything that happens on the court and off in the time between preseason and postseason. And it is perhaps the one aspect of the game that we know the least about when it comes to the team and players we follow so closely.

(That's by no means a bad thing, either.)

We glean things here and there from that which we observe, or that which coaches and journalists tell to the press (and now, that which we read via Twitter and its peers).

It's extremely difficult to extrapolate anything from all of that, however, except to trust in the staff and in the players they work with every day that relationships are being built and fortified to complement the work they're doing on the court and under the lights.

There's no science to it, per se. And there are always unpredictable factors that come into play and shake things up...sometimes in the form of personality conflicts; sometimes in the form of personal tragedy; sometimes in the form of questionable recreational activities; etc., etc.

Stars align at times, however, which certain leaders just have an ability to help make happen better than others. We saw that last year, where the combination of leaders knowing their role and roleplayers knowing theirs, on top of a heap of perseverance and trust and determination led to some pretty extraordinary things.

That can't be duplicated by moving one piece out and another piece in. And these guys surely know that.

Nolan and Jon were tremendous leaders, and they were as such well before last season. They learned a great deal from one another in the course of cultivating their friendship; many of those lessons are being passed down now, just as K envisions the "Duke Way" being handed down like an oral tradition from one generation to another.

Every team has to forge its own identity. But there are few better equipped as a college seniors to take the reigns as Nolan and his equally-but-differently-gifted teammate, Kyle Singler.

There are unique challenges for this team up-front, namely those of expectations, something that certainly existed a year ago, but to a very different degree...that's a lot for any team to handle, which is why repeat national champs are so rare in college basketball.

We sure are lucky to get to watch along the way. :)

Its amazing to me that this post has gotten so little attention relative to others in this thread. This is an excellent, excellent post. Bravo, Mike.

[ACCBBallFan]

Not only leadership but also 2 of the top 5 non frosh NBA prospects along with Mason, Henson and Singleton

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Top-NBA-Draft-Prospects-in-the-ACC-Part-One-1-5--3573

[BD80]

... There's no science to [leadership], per se. And there are always unpredictable factors that come into play and shake things up...sometimes in the form of personality conflicts; sometimes in the form of personal tragedy; sometimes in the form of questionable recreational activities; etc., etc.

Stars align at times, however, which certain leaders just have an ability to help make happen better than others. We saw that last year, where the combination of leaders knowing their role and roleplayers knowing theirs, on top of a heap of perseverance and trust and determination led to some pretty extraordinary things. ....

... They learned a great deal from one another in the course of cultivating their friendship; many of those lessons are being passed down now, just as K envisions the "Duke Way" being handed down like an oral tradition from one generation to another.

...We sure are lucky to get to watch along the way. :)

I must disagree with a portion of this opinion.

There IS a science to leadership, and Coach K is one of the world's leading authorities. West Point is all about leadership, and Coach K has used coaching men's basketball as his graduate and doctoral studies.

Last year wasn't the result of "stars aligning," it was the result of the staff's work with the players individually and as a team. Lance and Brian were NOT born leaders when they walked on the court as freshman, but they were exemplary leaders when they walked off the court 4 years later.

I totally agree that we are in for a fun year watching this team mature and grow together.

[Mike Corey]

There's science to leadership; Coach K is clearly one of the leading authorities.

I was referring to the cultivation of chemistry on a basketball team, however. There are tried and true strategies, and there isn't a coach better at developing that than Coach K.

But there are unpredictable obstacles that can throw off the cultivation of that chemistry, which can be problematic given the strict timeline each unique team faces.

There's no doubt extraordinary effort went into what happened a year ago; I don't think I suggested that last year was pure luck. But there's some things that just "click" as a result of all the hard work amassed over the past few years.

The coaches at Five Star used to tell their campers, "Practice doesn't make perfect, good practice makes perfect." Even that adage is incomplete: the cultivation of chemistry, no matter how good the leadership of that team or those pulling the strings, doesn't happen just because A, B and C are mixed together in the right way at the right time at the right temperature. There are too many variables that can't be accounted for in advance, and can't be dealt with immediately. There have to be adjustments along the way.

That happened a year ago because of the leaders and the chemistry and character of the team and staff (and surely, those around them).

But even if ALL the right things were done this season, that does not mean that the chemistry will be ideal...

I hope that makes my point clearer than it was originally, but I thank you for giving the staff and players their rightful due. I apologize if my previous post came across as a slight to any of them. I assure you, that's the last thing I'd ever want to do.

[superdave]

Lance and Brian were NOT born leaders when they walked on the court as freshman, but they were exemplary leaders when they walked off the court 4 years later.

I totally agree that we are in for a fun year watching this team mature and grow together.

I think these two points are spot on. First, a guy like Miles can grow in his leadership skills, especially heading into his 3rd year in the program. Second, the team we see in February should be light years ahead of the team we see November 15. Once the lineup and distribution of minutes settles out, guys will see their specific roles more clearly and the team should make a step forward every week. But with new faces and important departures, it will take time.