Ole Roy - I think he has really flipped.

[jammsb]

Reading the recent comments by Coach Williams, I am astonished. To suggest that all sports agents have no redeeming qualities and that by their very nature they are all evil is evidence of foolishness if not abject stupidity. Of course there are some agents who are bad and dishonest. Have there not been some coaches who are the same?
Does Ole Roy have any idea of how professional athletes were manipulated and underpaid prior to the advent of agents? How about Mickey Mantle who was presented with a contract calling for a reduced salary after enjoying his greatest year in baseball? How about the so called great social redeemer, Branch Rickey who when as the general manager of the Pittsburgh Pirates said to Ralph Kiner who was asking for a raise after leading the majors in most categories "The Pirates finished last with you in the lineup. They still can finish last without you in it."
There is no doubt that the pendulum has swung in the direction that players in all the professional sports(especially baseball) have a lot more say in their futures than they used to, to a great degree because of the power of agents. But isn't it far better than the days when professional athletes were not much more than indentured slaves who were paid not much more than a pittance relative to their true worth?
What really torques me is his statement to the effect that agents are in it "for the money". Isn't that the case with most professionals including basketball coaches? Don't most of us have to make a living to survive?

[oldnavy]

Initially, I thought that Roy keeping such a close check on his players and program was a good thing. But as is the case with most things Roy, once you get past the veneer, the uglier it gets. To me it is Roy being Roy; paranoid, untrusting, and controlling. I love the way he claims not to use an agent, yet he has a law professor review his contracts for him. Well, isn't that essentially the same thing? What a cheap skate! Hey Roy, news flash, these players that you say you care about will not have access to law professors who are willing to do them a favor. Roy knows that these players will become involved with agents, so maybe he should put a program in place to identify the reputable agents and guide his players toward them instead of getting up on his soap box and showing everyone what a pompous rear end he is. WOW, the season hasn’t even begun yet and Roy is out in front being a buffoon!

p.s., I wonder if Roy used a literary agent for that book he wrote???

[Lord Ash]

Eh, just playing to his base, which was recently burned by agents and probably has, in general, a dim view of business men/agent/deal making/suit wearing types.

[4decadedukie]

Eh, just playing to his base, which was recently burned by agents and probably has, in general, a dim view of business men/agent/deal making/suit wearing types.

Spot on (IMHO).

[sagegrouse]

It is really odd the way way Ol' Roy chooses to communicate. I mean, we all understand UNC's anguish about agents (not to mention coaches acting as agents). But these emotional outbursts by Roy always seem to come across as self pity. And certainly his comments are not reasonable. Kids negotiating with teams and potential clients have to get help, and sports agents are a reasonable solution. So, my reaction to Roy's saying he had nothing to do with agents and uses his wife Wanda as his agent is, "So what?" His comments are utterly irrelevant to the realities of the situation. Kind of like his Haiti comment during the midst of last seasons trials.

Good grief!

sagegrouse
'The problems around business for athletes have to do with (a) the process for agents' recruitment of clients on the college campus and (b) much more seriously, the fact that so many high-profile athletes go broke shortly after their careers are over, which is typically not the agents' fault'

[theAlaskanBear]

If Duke athletics was rocked by a scandal of the magnitude of unc-CH you might see Coach K be a bit more defensive (or offensive) about agents.

Williams is simply trying to draw lines and distinctions between the unc-CH basketball and football programs. Does he come off as foolish? Yes. Should we mock him for the goofy way he goes about it? Most definitely. Is it a bit deal? Nope, just some fodder for bored pre-season Duke fans!

[flyingdutchdevil]

If Duke athletics was rocked by a scandal of the magnitude of unc-CH you might see Coach K be a bit more defensive (or offensive) about agents.

Because the Duke lacrosse scandal wasn't a big scandal at all!

Coach K didn't get mention the Duke lacrosse scandal much. Rather (and rightly so), he left that to the Duke athletics department and to Brodhead. While I agree that Ole Roy was addressing an issue that affected the school, he shouldn't have gone on a tirade. What does that achieve?

[theAlaskanBear]

Because the Duke lacrosse scandal wasn't a big scandal at all!

Coach K didn't get mention the Duke lacrosse scandal much. Rather (and rightly so), he left that to the Duke athletics department and to Brodhead. While I agree that Ole Roy was addressing an issue that affected the school, he shouldn't have gone on a tirade. What does that achieve?

Not what I mean...the lacrosse scandal was not about agents and players receiving improper benefits. Given the context, Roy's statements are understandable, if ridiculous. You will never speak to a former player again if he becomes an agent? That's heartless, and stupid, because it doesn't affect your team. Btw, Roy uses the word Hades so much, I am beginning to think he is a greek polytheist.

[weezie]

I love the way he claims not to use an agent, yet he has a law professor review his contracts for him....What a cheap skate! Hey Roy, news flash, these players that you say you care about will not have access to law professors who are willing to do them a favor....what a pompous rear end he is. WOW, the season hasn’t even begun yet and Roy is out in front being a buffoon!
p.s., I wonder if Roy used a literary agent for that book he wrote???


Now now, dear oldnavy, surely that starry-eyed law prof will be blessed to receive some extra-special seats right behind Roy's behind in the deanodome. Close enough so Roy will hear nothing but heart-warming cheers.
Roy knows the value of re-gifting!

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

...having to "beg, borrow and steal" to keep 2,400 atheletes and their parents from being swayed by dishonest agents and runners.

I didn't realize he was now also serving as UNC's DA and in charge of all the other athletic programs as well.

[-bdbd]

Eh, just playing to his base, which was recently burned by agents and probably has, in general, a dim view of business men/agent/deal making/suit wearing types.

Spot-on LA. What I find odd is that this is a BB program the touts its supposed success in placing players in the pros - even though we all know Duke has more recent pros in the NBA. If the HC refuses to deal with agents, and basically calls them all 'scum' in the media, wouldn't that hamper the program's ability to place their players into the NBA??? I wonder if recruits will notice such an unbalanaced view/relationship vis-a-vis the agents around pro BB? WHY would a kid planning to go pro in a couple years want to toil under ole Roy? He's already said that he refuses to deal with the very people who will help you successfully navigate that path?? :confused:

In the end, it is just obvious silliness. As LA said, just pandering to his base in the wake of an ugly, ugly scandal at NC@CH. But it would give me pause as a top recruit considering a life in the pros after college... :eek:

[JayZee]

...having to "beg, borrow and steal" to keep 2,400 atheletes and their parents from being swayed by dishonest agents and runners.

I didn't realize he was now also serving as UNC's DA and in charge of all the other athletic programs as well.

Ironically, isn't it the begging and stealing with which he is just so dadgum concerned? This is quickly becoming a catastrophe...

[gumbomoop]

It is really odd the way way Ol' Roy chooses to communicate. I mean, we all understand UNC's anguish about agents (not to mention coaches acting as agents). But these emotional outbursts by Roy always seem to come across as self pity.


Btw, Roy uses the word Hades so much, I am beginning to think he is a greek polytheist.

Imo, these two points are interesting, connected, and perhaps telling about Roy's personality.

Impossible for me to judge yet whether what sagegrouse notes as Roy's weird, emotional, self-pitying outbursts are a permanent feature of his personality - or merely, to put a somewhat more positive spin on it, a hangover from the weird, emotional, self-destructive '09-'10 disaster.

But this again-embarrassing hyperbolic rhetoric is, imo, also linked to his mawkish religiosity, here exemplified by the affectation of the references to Hades. [In this I reluctantly disagree with AlaskanBear, who credits (no, not really, I know) Roy with an intellectual-spiritual depth heretofore not in evidence.] The "Hades stuff" - and particularly the statement about a putative agent-devil, a former Heel no less ["There's no way in Hades that he would have ever had one of my players."] - is faintly charming, despite the fact that Roy presumably sees it as a sort of mini-Armageddon. As to the affectation involved in using the word "Hades": it's as if uttering the word "hell" will..... aw, heck, you know.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

As to the affectation involved in using the word "Hades": it's as if uttering the word "hell" will..... aw, heck, you know.

right, because he was so careful about his choice of words with the media as he was finishing up at Kansas and being quizzed about UNC. :)

[Duvall]

Eh, just playing to his base, which was recently burned by agents and probably has, in general, a dim view of business men/agent/deal making/suit wearing types.

Exactly so. It is *very important* to UNC Athletics right now that Tar Heel fans view agents as predators and players (and coaches) as victims, so that the fans will know who to blame for the football fiasco. Roy's just advancing the company line.

[dbluedevil222]

I feel this is an important issue. You can complain about agents all you want, but their role in sports is important, and always will be.

It is much better to educate your athletes on the rules and provide ample resources for them to use so that they don't break the rules unintentionally. Telling your kids, "Don't talk to anyone, ever" is extremely unrealistic. Agents manifest in all sorts of creative ways, and it is very unreasonable to expect 18-22 year old kids to simultaneously be private detectives with their social lives.

Either Roy was putting on a show because of the problems UNC-CH has had recently, or he is just a very limited person and cannot adapt for the betterment of his own players. Given how awful Roy has been recently at PR (see the Haiti issue, referring to himself in the third person, blaming his players for losses, and almost everything that comes out of his mouth), I'm going to put it out there that he really does feel that way, and that it's detrimental to his players.

I'm not saying Roy is a bad coach of basketball, but frankly I don't think he comes close to K or many other NCAA coaches when it comes to mentoring athletes. The fact that he told a player he would never speak to him again if he became an agent is slightly disgusting, and reminds me of a lot of other social issues where parents have disowned kids for a variety of personal choices/beliefs.

[stickdog]

Considering what happened with Ed Davis last season, Roy's disdain for agents may come from their ability to extend his players' injury recuperation time frames.

[oldnavy]

Spot-on LA. What I find odd is that this is a BB program the touts its supposed success in placing players in the pros - even though we all know Duke has more recent pros in the NBA. If the HC refuses to deal with agents, and basically calls them all 'scum' in the media, wouldn't that hamper the program's ability to place their players into the NBA??? I wonder if recruits will notice such an unbalanaced view/relationship vis-a-vis the agents around pro BB? WHY would a kid planning to go pro in a couple years want to toil under ole Roy? He's already said that he refuses to deal with the very people who will help you successfully navigate that path?? :confused:

In the end, it is just obvious silliness. As LA said, just pandering to his base in the wake of an ugly, ugly scandal at NC@CH. But it would give me pause as a top recruit considering a life in the pros after college... :eek:

I doubt Roy's stance on NBA agents will bother either the recruits or the agents. HOWEVER his refusal to deal with "handlers" cost him John Wall and may have future ramifications if he continues to draw that hard line. That's his call, but to come out and make a blanket statement about the entire agent profession is just dumb.

So Roy, are we to believe that if Tyler Hansbrough had a career ending injury and decided to become a sports agent, you would never talk to him again? Word of advice to Roy, avoid absolutes like “all” and “never”… they tend to come back and bite you.

FWIW, I do not think that it is Roy pandering, he really doesn't do that in fact he tends to provoke more than pander his base. My take is that Roy thinks that agents are beneath him and not worthy of his time.

[sagegrouse]

I feel this is an important issue. You can complain about agents all you want, but their role in sports is important, and always will be.

It is much better to educate your athletes on the rules and provide ample resources for them to use so that they don't break the rules unintentionally. .

Right you are, dbluedevil222.

Moreover, K will play this like a Stradivarius:

"At Duke, we know all the most important agents, and they are friends. [Drop a few pertinent names here.] They have an important role in professional basketball, both in negotiating with teams and with coming up with good business deals. Moreover, they have been very supportive of both Duke and USA Basketball. [Tell some war stories.]

"Now at UNC the head coach says "quote: I don't like agents; I don't use one; and I refuse to even talk to UNC grads who are entering that business -- unquote." Here we want our seniors to speak with agents, but require the agents to approach players through Dean So-and-so, a senior member of our Law School faculty, who knows the ins-and-outs of the sports agency profession. He and the program can advise players on what to look for in an agent and the experience that other players have had in using a specific agent. At UNC, the practice is to take a completely hands-off attitude and to discourage any player from using agents at any time. At Duke we don't think that's good for the player or for Duke basketball. The question I would ask you, Mr. Recruit, is which program cares more about your future after college?"

sagegrouse

[LSanders]

Good thread ... Interesting comments ... Great points made about the role of agents. Got just one question regarding the title of the thread ...

How would you know?

Ol' Roy seems so mired in an eccentric world of paranoia, self-aggrandizement, way too much belief in the blind-eye reporting of the puke blue press and the endless huzzahs from a base of fans who would cheer for Bin Laden if he occupied the seat at the end of the bench.

Seriously.

[El_Diablo]

Maybe Roy is right some agents (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/makhtar-ndiaye/15/904/518).

[left_hook_lacey]

I doubt Roy's stance on NBA agents will bother either the recruits or the agents. HOWEVER his refusal to deal with "handlers" cost him John Wall.

This is true, but is probably also one of the reasons it cost us John Wall. K is also limited in his tolerance of agents, handlers and the like with high school athletes. Although, I seriously doubt K would ever make such a public statement like Roy did.

[juise]

Maybe Roy is right some agents (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/makhtar-ndiaye/15/904/518).

Awww, come on! Give the man some credit! They didn't even list his television work (Life in the D-League) under the experience category.

[oldnavy]

This is true, but is probably also one of the reasons it cost us John Wall. K is also limited in his tolerance of agents, handlers and the like with high school athletes. Although, I seriously doubt K would ever make such a public statement like Roy did.

True, and honestly I do not blame either of them for trying to avoid the High Schoolers agents, but like you hinted at, there is something to be said for decorum....