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JasonEvans
10-16-2010, 04:22 PM
Final score: Miami 28, Duke 13.

From the start of the 2nd quarter through early in the 3rd quarter we had turnovers on 5 out of 7 possessions. The 2 possessions that did not end in INT or fumble -- one lasted 3 plays and then a punt and the other lasted 4 plays and then a punt.

--Jason "that kind of offensive ineptitude ain't gonna win many games" Evans

Greg_Newton
10-16-2010, 04:58 PM
Well, given the roster, our defense has been playing their hearts out lately, for the most part. The O-line has also come together quite well in opening up holes for the running game. If you'd told me that 5 weeks ago, I'd be giddy.

That said, these games are getting hard to watch. As Cut just said, "I'm still somewhat in shock with such a bizarre performance." I really hope he isn't losing the team, that the players aren't losing any sense of confidence and pride that they've gained since he arrived, that we're not losing recruits... that we're not losing any progress we might have made.

Someone told me the Army game set us back 15 years. I hope that he's wrong, but what we've seen on the field lately looks ominously familiar.

MADevil30
10-16-2010, 05:01 PM
After attending today's game, I am beginning to think that it is the dirty secret of Duke football that Shaun Renfree is just not that good of a quarterback yet. He missed a lot of wide open targets today and had trouble on seemingly easy throws (screen passes etc). Hopefully he will progress by next year, but he's nowhere near what we came to expect with Thad.

I couldn't help but feel that we should have won the game today. Great job by the defense to step up like that against a big opponent, but the offense really isn't cutting it

dukelifer
10-16-2010, 05:17 PM
After attending today's game, I am beginning to think that it is the dirty secret of Duke football that Shaun Renfree is just not that good of a quarterback yet. He missed a lot of wide open targets today and had trouble on seemingly easy throws (screen passes etc). Hopefully he will progress by next year, but he's nowhere near what we came to expect with Thad.

I couldn't help but feel that we should have won the game today. Great job by the defense to step up like that against a big opponent, but the offense really isn't cutting it

Most of this season-the defense has been awful and the offense okay. Today it was the reverse. The problem is that Duke football is losing momentum in gaining fan and student support. The bball team is back in its rightful place in the Universe and the students were nowhere to be found. There could not have been a more picture perfect day to go watch football and the stands were emptying with every interception and dropped ball. This of course weighs on the minds of the players and coaching staff. The song and dance is getting a bit old now- new coach does well for a season or two and then there is a problem winning games and the fans lose interest. Fortunately Cut has some young talent that should get better and he will turn it around next year- If he can't I really don't know where Duke goes with football. This time it is not because the Coach is not good enough.

doctorhook
10-16-2010, 05:18 PM
Just remember Renfree is young and has only started in six games. Confidence can be elusive in a young QB. Having said that, who knows how good or bad he might be. Gotta trust Cut.

Good news is the defense is better, special teams are pretty good, O line is getting better. Just trying to keep the faith.

devildeac
10-16-2010, 07:08 PM
UM-2 TO
Duke-7 TO (5 INT and 2 fumbles lost)

IIRC, 3 of those TO led to 3 UM TDs in fairly quick order.


http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/46.gif

DownEastDevil
10-16-2010, 07:20 PM
I was really disappointed in what I saw from Renfree today.It's time for him to start getting better reads on defenses. He continuously threw into double coverage and missed a lot of wide open receivers. I thought the 2 key plays were the interception at half time when we were already in field goal range and the interception to start the second half.

bluepenguin
10-16-2010, 07:36 PM
Fortunately Cut has some young talent that should get better and he will turn it around next year.
I thought this season was the one he was going to turn it around. ;)
We're starting to sound like Cubs fans.

killerleft
10-16-2010, 08:18 PM
Very frustrating day. The defense seems to be getting better and better. Renfree is losing his confidence daily, and the receivers are still dropping passes like that's a desirable skill.

Seven turnovers and we weren't dead until the last one.

Our successful onside kick was a thing of beauty.

mkline09
10-16-2010, 09:23 PM
Renfree looks completely shell shocked out there. He doesn't look confident in the pocket. He is missing throws high a lot, a sign he is rushing his throws. He is also making horrible decisions throwing into double even triple coverage. On one play he rolled out and it appeared as if he threw the ball right at the Miami defender. Not sure why that is. As someone said above he is young and still has a lot to learn. I would have liked Cutcliffe to maybe take him out a serious settle down and then have him come back.

Duke is headed in the right direction clearly. Unfortunately the results aren't what we want to see. But with the number of young guys and the defense clearly showing signs of improvement it is still encouraging. Patience is hard I know but if we stay the course as fans and have faith in Cut and where the program is going we will be rewarded and so will those kids.

Acymetric
10-16-2010, 09:54 PM
If Renfree can't turn things around we have to quit playing him. 6 turnovers from the QB isn't ok, and it isn't like this is happening in a vacuum. He had 6 great quarters, 2 decent quarters, and since then has alternated between mediocre and downright awful. Overthrowing wide open receivers when there is no pressure...throwing into double or triple coverage, refusing to throw the ball away and taking sacks. I honestly think we need to consider starting Connette next week. Or at least keep Sean on a short leash (don't tell him that, but if he plays poorly the first few series he needs to get yanked). He should have been pulled after his pick 6, not at the beginning of the 3rd. Something is wrong with him since the Wake game and if he can't figure it out and the coaches can't figure it out then quit playing him. Fans won't tolerate "growing pains" to the tune of 5 interceptions and a fumble, and they shouldn't have to. It would be one thing if it was an aberration, but it isn't...at this point its a trend. We have the best O-Line and the best running game to take the pressure off the QB that we've had in years and our offense looks worse...Sean is killing us right now.

Of course, our receivers aren't helping, with big drops when Sean is throwing good balls. The worst are the tip interceptions...can or WR coach please tell his players to knock the ball down if they can't catch it? Tipping it up 20 feet in the air surrounded by 3 defenders is bad football, and its happening more than a couple times a game (luckily the defenses don't always capitalize).

Playcalling again was beyond comprehension. We were playing like we had the lead and wanted to shorten the game with 10 minutes left down big. Bled 3 or so minutes on that drive I believe. Why? Yeah we recovered the onside kick, but with that clock management even if we scored again we would have had to kick another onside to give ourselves a chance. That's our best shot to win? I don't think so.

The bright spot? The defense. We've abandoned the 3-4, which was a disaster. I'm not sure if it started against Army or Navy, but we seem to be playing more of a 4-2-5 with Matt Daniels (safety) playing up as a 3rd linebacker. He is a much better at stopping the run than he is at coverage, this is a great move as it gives him a better opportunity to show that skill. Although we did miss a lot of tackles, the defense overall still looked good...giving up 21 points to Miami is nothing to be ashamed of, particularly when 14 were in the 1st half when Duke's offense couldn't stay on the field.

Expect season ticket sales next year to drop below what they were last season unless we win a couple games and look respectable on both sides of the ball in most of the others...which is far from guaranteed. I'll be at most of the games this year...I have a conflict with the BC game but plan to try and make the rest. But watching Duke football has been torture this year...I saw more bright spots in Roof's last year than I see this year. There is a lot of talk about the youth on this team coming up big next year. I sure hope so, but Sean isn't playing inconsistently...hes playing bad. He hasn't played well in weeks. The problems with the offense are getting worse, not better, as the season goes on. My faith that those issues will be resolved in the off season is pretty shaken. We haven't played well on both sides of the ball for a single quarter yet this season...I don't think I've ever seen that at the halfway point of a season.

Sixthman
10-16-2010, 10:43 PM
Renfree lost his confidence between the Wake and Alabama game and has never gotten it back. It is not hard to argue that with decent quarterback play Duke would have won today. We probably learned more about Miami than we did Duke. Miami is not very good, and did not present the physical mismatch for Duke that Alabama did this year, or Miami has in years past. Duke is on to something with the defensive scheme they used today, and, again, with some quarterback play, will pull a surprise or two before the year is over.

Greg_Newton
10-16-2010, 11:52 PM
Renfree lost his confidence between the Wake and Alabama game and has never gotten it back. It is not hard to argue that with decent quarterback play Duke would have won today. We probably learned more about Miami than we did Duke. Miami is not very good, and did not present the physical mismatch for Duke that Alabama did this year, or Miami has in years past. Duke is on to something with the defensive scheme they used today, and, again, with some quarterback play, will pull a surprise or two before the year is over.

FWIW, Cut said that Miami's starters were as or more individually talented than those of Alabama's (Miami just didn't have Bama's depth). I don't know really have a good enough eye for football to concur or dissent, but that's what the man in charge said.

Acymetric
10-16-2010, 11:56 PM
FWIW, Cut said that Miami's starters were as or more individually talented than those of Alabama's (Miami just didn't have Bama's depth). I don't know really have a good enough eye for football to concur or dissent, but that's what the man in charge said.

I can believe that could possibly true for a small handful of positions, but across the board there is no way. That is 100% coach speak in my eyes. Or at least I hope it is...if it isn't I think we have some issues with talent evaluation on the coaching staff (I don't think this is the case, I put my money on coach speak).

CameronBornAndBred
10-17-2010, 12:52 AM
Can't win when you can't keep the ball. It was what we said we COULD NOT do, and for whatever reason we had the most turnovers in a game that I can recall in forever. Bright side, regardless of what goes on inside the stadium, the tailgate is always fun. I met the other two parents in my football paintings (Both Huffman's and Isaac Blakeney's dad) which was cool, and met Sean Renfree's brother (Sean didn't have a good day, but his family is still fun). None of those folks was as cool as having Bob Green and his dad join us for food and drink again this year. Last year Bob was there for a victory, in the pouring rain, so I told Bob next time he comes to bring the rain back with him. To see pics of Bob and other DBR folks, you can check them out here.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/album.php?aid=247840&id=330893144629

Travel home safely Bob!

CameronBornAndBred
10-17-2010, 01:15 AM
1616

And just because it's a great photo (taken by CathyCA). Bob Green and Allen Murray.

loran16
10-17-2010, 01:18 AM
You stick with Renfree guys. He's in a big funk, and his receivers are NOT helping him out. That said, he's a first year starter, with great potential, who didn't even have much of the offseason to work out due to his injury.

On the bright side, the D has been downright tremendous the last two games. The Run D's performance wasn't great but wasn't terrible, and Jacory Harris went 17/34. We got plenty of stops and held them (a decent to good team) to 28 points.

One part of this team has stepped up and grown; the other side is Coach Cut's specialty. Giving up on it would be wrong and pointless right now....

Next week is a almost certain loss (VaTech) but then we have a winnable game against Navy. so Renfree has 2 weeks to get it together. I think it can be done.

--------------------------------------------
PS: Please Cut, don't be cute when you get a pristine opportunity early! DON'T START THE GAME with your #3 RB in the game in the opposing red zone!"

CameronBornAndBred
10-17-2010, 01:37 AM
You stick with Renfree guys. He's in a big funk, and his receivers are NOT helping him out.
I agree, and disagree. He IS in big funk, but you can't pin this on the receivers. He continuously threw high bullets. Hard, fast, and above the guy catching the ball, when they didn't need to be nearly so hard. We've seen him play smart and well, so we know he can. He has a nice touch..but he hasn't shown it lately. The reason so many balls go flying high in the air for INT's is because they repeatedly fly off the fingertips of his receivers, they are simply thrown too high. It was pretty evident that it was a becoming habitual after the 4th or 5th tip. Luckily not all of those tips became INT's...but enough of them did.
I don't know about suggesting to Cutcliffe that you don't look to Connette. Yes..he turned it over also...but he moved the ball. The only progressive drive Duke had was at the end with Connette behind the wheel. One thing to consider, he was probably driving against 2cnd stringers...but he was running and passing well.
I have faith that Cutcliffe will make the right call, but I do think it's going to be a battle for the starter's job in practice this week.

devildeac
10-17-2010, 07:35 AM
You stick with Renfree guys. He's in a big funk, and his receivers are NOT helping him out. That said, he's a first year starter, with great potential, who didn't even have much of the offseason to work out due to his injury.

On the bright side, the D has been downright tremendous the last two games. The Run D's performance wasn't great but wasn't terrible, and Jacory Harris went 17/34. We got plenty of stops and held them (a decent to good team) to 28 points.

One part of this team has stepped up and grown; the other side is Coach Cut's specialty. Giving up on it would be wrong and pointless right now....

Next week is a almost certain loss (VaTech) but then we have a winnable game against Navy. so Renfree has 2 weeks to get it together. I think it can be done.

--------------------------------------------
PS: Please Cut, don't be cute when you get a pristine opportunity early! DON'T START THE GAME with your #3 RB in the game in the opposing red zone!"

To further support this are the facts that Miami was 3/12 on 3rd down conversions and 0/4 on 4th down conversions. IIRC, one TD was a gift from the offense and two other TDs were from other TO in our end of the field.

7 TO. I'm still stunned.

RelativeWays
10-17-2010, 10:02 AM
D gave up 21, which sounds bad, but considering that the U still has better athletes thats not bad at all. In my opinion, they played well enough to give a competent offense a chance to win the game and thats all you can ask for. Now we need a competent offense. These turnovers are killers. I'm also worried about the demeanor of the team. They don't seem interested on the field and I'm worried coach Cut has lost them.

Olympic Fan
10-17-2010, 11:02 AM
I know this sounds futile to plead for patience, but sometimes losing programs stay down for a long time because those in power don't have the patience to withstand the heat when in the course of improvement, a coach takes a step back after a couple of steps forward.

They panic and go for the quick fix again and by constantly changing things, nobody ever has time to build anything. I'm pretty sure that the Duke adnministration is not in panic mode over Cutcliffe's program, but many Duke fans seem to be.

Cutcliffe came in and took a couple of big steps forward in his first two years. He's clearly taking a step back this year ... but that doesn't mean he's not moving in the right direction.

Does anybody remember just a few weeks ago, when our defense was the worst defense ever and there was no hope for it and everybody wanted to blow it up (I had an argument with a fan who thought we should move Sean Schroeder to safety and use Paul Asack -- a failed kicker -- at LB)?

But the defense has gotten steadily better over the last three games. True, some of that improvement came against Army and Maryland, two mediocre offensive teams, but the job the defense did against a truly potent Miami offense is encouraging. These coaches know what they're doing ... they are building something with some talented young players. There will probably still be setbacks ahead, but I think we can see what they're working towards.

A week ago, one of Cut's big concerns was kick coverage ... it was a focus during the off-week. Small sample size, but Miami is one of the best kick return teams in the ACC -- and they got NOTHING against us. Again, a problem that was addressed and fixed.

The running game that was such a nightmare last year has been better most of the year, but seemed to take a step back in the Maryland game. Duke ran the ball very well against Miami. I know the final net wasn't great (105 yards ... still 40 more than our 2009 average), but that was due to some big losses on three sacks and two fumbled snaps in the shotgun ... we GAINED 161 yards and our three tailbacks averaged over five yards a carry.

Now the big problem is the passing game. Not long ago we thought this was the best part of our team, now it's killing uis. I thought our receiving corps was the strongest part of the team preseason, but drops -- and worse, deflections off the receivers hands -- are killing us. If the receivers just catch the damn balls in their hands, we beat Wake and probably Maryland (Varner dropped the go-ahead TD pass with just over two minutes left). Renfree has 14 interceptions on the season and either five or six are directly the result of deflections off pases that hit his receiver.

That doesn't excuse Renfree. I don't claim to know what's happened to a guy who looked so great in our first two games, but I agree he looks rattled. He had phenomenal accuracy, now he's spraying the ball all over the field. He's supposed to be the smartest player on the team, yet he makes bad decision after bad decision.

The play that haunts me was the second quarter -- Duke is driving after the defense stopped Miami near midfield on a 4th down. We have 3rd down at the Miami 40 and the 'Canes bring the blitz. The O-line does a great job of picking it up ... Renfree has time and as he steps up into the pocket, Conner Vernon breaks wide open on a crossing pattern inside the 30 -- and the way the field was set up (two defenders and one Duke receiver to block on the right side, where he was headed), he catches the ball there and he has a decent chance to score and give Duke a 10-7 lead ... at the very least he gives Duke a first diown well inside the 20 ...

What happens? Renfree -- with a cloear lane and no immediate pressure -- throws the ball a good five yards over Vernon's head. It was heartbreaking.

What's the answer? Well, I'm pretty sure that the answer is not to turn to a true freshman who doesn't have his skills (except a superior ability to run the ball) or knowledge of the offense. If Renfree needs to be benched, it's because Cut thinks that's what he needs to settle down and regain his form. Renfree is the best QB we've got and I still think he's going to be a great quarterback ... I just think he's going through a rough learning cure. It happened with Ben Bennett (who lost his job early as a sophomore to Ron Sally) ... it even happened to some degree to Peyton Manning (who shared the job early in his Tennessee career with Todd Helton, I think). It happens to a lot of guys ... the good ones fight through it. Some guys lose it ...

Luckily, we have one of the great quarterback gurus in the country in David Cutcliffe. I believe he'll figure out a way to help Renfree get back in the groove -- he's certainly more qualified to find the right answer at QB than you or me.

There's no doubt that I'm disappointed by the way this season has gone. But I guess it was optimistic to expect steady progress. When you look at the roster and see that the senior class is basically the result of Roof's worst recruiting class and the junior class is the transition class -- half Roof and half Cut. Most of the real talent on this team is in the first two classes.

I still believe the program is on the right track. I'm encouraged by the progress I see in correcting problems such as our horrific defense early this season or the offensive line -- a long-time weak point that is growing into a VERY solid unit. remember the long placekicking nightmare under Roof? That's become a strongpoint.

I know you guys hate to hear a plea for patience, but in the real world that's what it takes. This isn't basketball, where you can go from bums to greatness with one great recruiting class (and it even took K an 11-win season with his first great class before he got it going). Look at Bill Dooley, who inherited a 2-8 UNC team and won 2-3-5 games before finally going to a bowl in year four. Look at George Welsh at Virginia, who took over a traditionally downtrodden program ... he won two games his first team and got them to a bowl in year three -- but was back at 6-5 and 3-8 his next two years before reeling off something like 12 bowls in his last 14 years. Look at Jim Grobe, who took over a Wake team that was in much better shape than the Duke team Cut inherited and had five mediocre seasons before exploding to 11 wins in year six.

It takes time. When you've got the right guy, stick with him -- even when there are setbacks. I think Duke has the right guy -- both as coach and as starting quarterback.

Devil in the Blue Dress
10-17-2010, 11:53 AM
Well stated post, Olympic! Football is much more complicated than basketball. Building or rebuilding a program can be a really trying process. We fans often expect a linear progression when the current player personnel just don't fit that model.

This season so far is a series of starts and fits, confusing to say the least..... but the team as a whole is improving. If the offense can get their turnovers under control, the final results will be much better. The Durham Herald's coverage of this game said that Duke was routed..... that term was misapplied to a two touchdown loss. Duke was in the game, but kept losing the ball because of player errors..... a fixable problem.

Perhaps the high level of fan frustration comes about in part because of the beginning of the hoops season.

I look forward to seeing what sort of modifications the coaches come up with for the next game.

dukeENG2003
10-17-2010, 11:54 AM
Put me in the "Stick with Renfree" camp. The kid has talent, but he's a first year starter who spent the off season re-habbing a blown out knee. He's shown flashes of brilliance and stupidity, but what are you gonna do? I like Connette in short yardage, but we all know who our starter is for the next two years. We've got to work through these growing pains.

Acymetric
10-17-2010, 11:56 AM
OF:

Great post, its definitely nice to see some perspective on these issues, but I think you're missing some things.

The defense has improved, yes, but I think that is largely because we abandoned the 3-4 (which was a disaster) and switched to a 4-2-5 with Daniels really playing OLB (so we're basically 4-3 again with one of the OLBs dropping back like a safety from time to time). The defensive staff was clearly mistaken about the 3-4 giving us the best chance to win, and it took them way to long to make the change. I give them credit for fixing it, but blame for breaking it to begin with. FWIW, people have been calling to play Matt Daniels at OLB since last year as I recall. Looks like they were onto something.

Kick coverage was much better this game, but I do think the wind was playing with the returners. Both teams had trouble catching the ball on a lot of kickoffs and punts...I imagine that made it easier to cover (although certainly sometimes it seems like those mistakes lead to the coverage units breaking down when they see the ball on the grass). I would like to see another game or two where we cover kicks and punts when the weather isn't our 12th defender man on the field before I say this is fixed. I'm not saying that its still a problem for the team, but I'm not willing to call it fixed either...inconclusive evidence.

I also would like to point out that although I'm as frustrated with our WR tips as anyone, some of the blame lies on Sean for throwing 90 mph fastballs to the receivers. Some of those tips came on balls that were thrown way to high and way to hard. Although I think receivers need to be smart enough not to tip the ball up (I was complaining about this in the game thread) its worth noting that some of those tips the way the ball was thrown meant that trying to make the catch was going to be a catch or it was going to tip the ball up off the fingertips. Should the receivers just let the ball sail by? Receivers are not blameless, but a couple of those tip interceptions really are Sean's fault. The ones at Wake were not, to be clear.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Connette is a better QB than Sean, but it is very possible that he would be playing better right now. Even mediocre QBs don't turn the ball over that much most of the time. Sean is really not looking good and I think he needs some time on the sidelines...I don't see how letting him make mistake after mistake is good for him, and I know it isn't good for the team. Someone we thought was our best player pretty much single-handedly lost the game (yes other units made mistakes, but not to the extent that he did, sorry). Defense, O-Line, running backs, special teams all looked good. Where else can you put the blame? I think Sean is the QB of the future, but until we figure out what is up with him he simply isn't the QB of the present. It isn't fair to the rest of the team (or the people spending hundreds or thousands of dollars to watch) to play their hearts out and play pretty well only to watch their QB throw picks all over the field. This isn't an aberration, he hasn't been playing well since the Wake game, and really only had 2 really good quarters in that game. He made several other throws in the Miami game that should have been picked too, including a few into double coverage. Decision making at QB is really poor right now.

That said, I don't think anyone should be in the hot seat. Defense is coming into its own this season...with some help from the offense they would be plenty good enough to win the last 3 games. The running game is worlds better, as is the O-Line, and there is a lot of really good youth at those positions. I do think there are some questions about Roper as OC, but at the same time the way Sean is playing its kind of difficult to judge.

Loyal fans and coaches can preach patience, but I can tell you there is a lot of chatter of people not renewing tickets next year. And that's ok. Fan support and a good football program is a chicken and the egg situation, but in this case, at least for Duke, a good team is going to have to come first. Maybe thats not fair to the players (it is fair), and maybe better improvement would be made with better fan support. But people are busy, and money doesn't grow on trees. People need to be shown that it is worth it. If we were playing well and losing to superior teams things would be different, but we are playing awful this year (with the awful moving around to different units each game) and losing games we could have won because of it.

I'll be there cheering, but it isn't fair to expect everyone else to do it.

OldPhiKap
10-17-2010, 01:30 PM
I trust Cut's calls on who plays QB. That position is kind of his thing and all.

Tough game for Sean, no doubt. Live, learn, and move on with the knowledge gained.

duke09hms
10-17-2010, 04:31 PM
Hey guys,

I've been watching all the games from up here in boston on espn3 and came back for homecoming. And let me tell you, it's been heartbreaking. But you know, you gotta stay strong and keep believing. Given where we were for the last 10-15 years, did anyone actually expect the process to be painless?

It's been a tough year no doubt, but it's times like these where finally making it to our first bowl game and even our first acc championship game will be oh-so-sweet. It's a process, people, and given our history, we can't expect it to be a smooth journey with no setbacks. I just can't wait for the game when we finally put it all together - offense, defense, special teams, it's gonna be great.

Go DUKE beat VT!

Devil in the Blue Dress
10-17-2010, 04:38 PM
Hey guys,

I've been watching all the games from up here in boston on espn3 and came back for homecoming. And let me tell you, it's been heartbreaking. But you know, you gotta stay strong and keep believing. Given where we were for the last 10-15 years, did anyone actually expect the process to be painless?

It's been a tough year no doubt, but it's times like these where finally making it to our first bowl game and even our first acc championship game will be oh-so-sweet. It's a process, people, and given our history, we can't expect it to be a smooth journey with no setbacks. I just can't wait for the game when we finally put it all together - offense, defense, special teams, it's gonna be great.

Go DUKE beat VT!

Right on! Thanks for staying true blue! Better days are coming in football.

Indoor66
10-17-2010, 05:03 PM
Hey guys,

I've been watching all the games from up here in boston on espn3 and came back for homecoming. And let me tell you, it's been heartbreaking. But you know, you gotta stay strong and keep believing. Given where we were for the last 10-15 years, did anyone actually expect the process to be painless?

It's been a tough year no doubt, but it's times like these where finally making it to our first bowl game and even our first acc championship game will be oh-so-sweet. It's a process, people, and given our history, we can't expect it to be a smooth journey with no setbacks. I just can't wait for the game when we finally put it all together - offense, defense, special teams, it's gonna be great.

Go DUKE beat VT!

You state my feelings and position very well. I watched the Bill Murray era then the decline. It was painful and, somewhat gradual - reaching it's nadir in the '90's and early '00's. I fully expect a five or seven year process of climbing back into being competitive.

There will be short term gains and some fall back, but the overall progress will be there. I believe that we have a staff with the ability and the declared will to succeed.

We as fans must have the patiences to hold on while the roller coaster completes it's ride through the hills and valleys.

We have to trust in Cut as we have learned to trust in K.

sagegrouse
10-17-2010, 06:22 PM
You state my feelings and position very well. I watched the Bill Murray era then the decline. It was painful and, somewhat gradual - reaching it's nadir in the '90's and early '00's. I fully expect a five or seven year process of climbing back into being competitive.

There will be short term gains and some fall back, but the overall progress will be there. I believe that we have a staff with the ability and the declared will to succeed.

We as fans must have the patience to hold on while the roller coaster completes it's ride through the hills and valleys.

We have to trust in Cut as we have learned to trust in K.


I think it is OK to be patient and totally disgusted with a performance that features seven (7) (VII) turnovers. This was a winnable game, I think, although it may be that the Miami coaches realized how impotent and self-destructive was the Duke offense and tamped down their offensive plan accordingly.

sagegrouse

CameronBornAndBred
10-17-2010, 06:43 PM
I think it is OK to be patient and totally disgusted with a performance that features seven (7) (VII) turnovers. This was a winnable game, I think, although it may be that the Miami coaches realized how impotent and self-destructive was the Duke offense and tamped down their offensive plan accordingly.

sagegrouse
I was sitting next to devildeac, and after they first elected go for it on fourth down I said to him "Miami isn't going to punt again, not unless they are in their own territory". I'm not sure how true that held out to be, but they went for it at least once more. They had the mentality that our offense was nothing to worry about.

devildeac
10-17-2010, 06:59 PM
I was sitting next to devildeac, and after they first elected go for it on fourth down I said to him "Miami isn't going to punt again, not unless they are in their own territory". I'm not sure how true that held out to be, but they went for it at least once more. They had the mentality that our offense was nothing to worry about.

They ended up being 0/4 on 4th down conversions. After the first one, IIRC, I remember you saying they had no respect for our offense so why not go for it on 4th and short anywhere around mid-field or in our territory. You were correct.

CameronBornAndBred
10-17-2010, 07:03 PM
They ended up being 0/4 on 4th down conversions. After the first one, IIRC, I remember you saying they had no respect for our offense so why not go for it on 4th and short anywhere around mid-field or in our territory. You were correct.
Gotta love our defense! Once the two sides show up for the same game, we're gonna have a hell of a team. http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/happy/bouncyblue.gif (http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/posting.php?mode=post&f=3#)

Bob Green
10-17-2010, 07:32 PM
I literally just arrived back home in Washington State from the game so I haven't read the thread yet. Even though we lost, I had a great time watching the game with my Dad and visiting with folks at the Brunchgate. Thanks for having me! Now I have to empty my backpack and repack it as I'm off to San Diego tomorrow morning.

killerleft
10-17-2010, 09:23 PM
D gave up 21, which sounds bad, but considering that the U still has better athletes thats not bad at all. In my opinion, they played well enough to give a competent offense a chance to win the game and thats all you can ask for. Now we need a competent offense. These turnovers are killers. I'm also worried about the demeanor of the team. They don't seem interested on the field and I'm worried coach Cut has lost them.

I saw a rough day for the offense, but have no idea how you translate that into a lack of interest from the players. What yardstick did you use to measure that?

Not to dismiss your theory, but that's a strong statement to make without something concrete to back it up.

Devil in the Blue Dress
10-17-2010, 09:36 PM
I saw a rough day for the offense, but have no idea how you translate that into a lack of interest from the players. What yardstick did you use to measure that?

Not to dismiss your theory, but that's a strong statement to make without something concrete to back it up.
I agree with you, Killerleft. I saw nothing to suggest disinterest. In fact, those guys were playing their hearts out, but the mistakes kept coming. The offense never gave up even in the face of the multiple turnovers.

left_hook_lacey
10-17-2010, 10:28 PM
I just wanted to add a couple of quick additions. Some of these sentiments have been mentioned in the thread some have not, but I think we need a quick reality check.

Renfree is a good QB. He had some accuracy issues today, which all QB's do from time to time. We all know Football, especially at the QB position, is a timing game, and we have faced some really good teams the last few weeks. Our O-line is improving, but it's nowhere near what it should be against the likes of Alabama or Miami. We are up against the wall at some key "non-skill" positions despite having improved dramatically over the last few seasons. We simply do not have the size or talent yet to compete with big time schools at often forgotten positions like on the O-line. Week after week, a QB's timing and confidence can begin to diminish when the timing of the play you've ran 100 times in practice is being blown up by bigger faster D than you're used to.

Look at the Vikings last week, one of the greatest of all time Brett Favre, had some serious accuracy issues against the Jets because of the Jets D. Even the best struggle when the timing of the plays and the routes are off.

Also, Renfree is having to fill very big shoes in Thad. I'm not saying he can't do it, I'm just saying I don't think this is the team is ready to put up the kind of numbers and success that Thad was able to do.

And lastly, we have played some teams that would challenge just about any team in the country, and had something good to take from all of them.

We just can't lose our enthusiasm to get Duke football back to a place it once was. It starts with fans and alumni, and that's us.

devildeac
10-17-2010, 10:56 PM
Gotta love our defense! Once the two sides show up for the same game, we're gonna have a hell of a team. http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/happy/bouncyblue.gif (http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/posting.php?mode=post&f=3#)

I respect our D a lot more but don't quite love them yet;). They did give up well over 400 yards, missed quite a few tackles and Miami still had a fairly high average gain per play.

devildeac
10-17-2010, 10:59 PM
I literally just arrived back home in Washington State from the game so I haven't read the thread yet. Even though we lost, I had a great time watching the game with my Dad and visiting with folks at the Brunchgate. Thanks for having me! Now I have to empty my backpack and repack it as I'm off to San Diego tomorrow morning.

Glad you could join us! I still think you should bring some of that Pacific NW rain with you and come back for another game this year, preferably a W like you witnessed against the twerps last year:D.