CNNSi - Duke #1 backcourt...

[SupaDave]

A quick snippet on what's expected this year...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1010/cbb.preview.top.16.backcourts/content.16.html

[sleepybear]

No UK in the top 16?

Watch out for Memphis' backcourt. Will Barton and Jackson are nasty.

[juise]

I think Ohio State may be a little underrated here. Those guys have experience and I remember doing some research about how they match up with Duke last year and those guys are pretty talented.

[airowe]

So this puts Singler in the front court then. Does the preseason Player of the Year add enough to the two Plumlees, Ryan Kelly, and Josh Hairston to make that unit one of the best front courts in the country as well?

[OldPhiKap]

"Smith, a senior who passed on the NBA Draft, is a star in his own right who looked phenomenal in this past summer-camp circuit."

Hard to believe that he can play better than last year. Yet I know he will.



Remember some of our past teams that couldn't really break down the defending guards and get into the paint? Shouldn't be a problem this year. Wow.

[OldPhiKap]

So this puts Singler in the front court then. Does the preseason Player of the Year add enough to the two Plumlees, Ryan Kelly, and Josh Hairston to make that unit one of the best front courts in the country as well?

You, me, and Singler would make a top five front line.

[gumbomoop]

So this puts Singler in the front court then. Does the preseason Player of the Year add enough to the two Plumlees, Ryan Kelly, and Josh Hairston to make that unit one of the best front courts in the country as well?

The answer has to be "yes."

Sometimes the traditional designations, backcourt/frontcourt, don't do justice to the practical configuration employed by many teams, which is perimeter/interior. Many teams employ a 3-guard lineup, so the perimeter is a PG and 2 wings. If one of the wings is a bit taller than the other, that wing would traditionally be the SF. And since SF includes F, and since F is traditionally thought of as "frontcourt," then Kyle is still going to be thought of as frontcourt by some. And that is particularly true for sports writers, who look at all those other Duke guys who are shorter than Kyle and who seem to be guards. So if in the traditional designation, a team has a "backcourt" consisting of 2 guards, and Duke has 5 other guys who appear to be good-to-excellent guards, then Kyle is likely to be thought a forward.

Without reviving the Kyle-is-a-3, no-he's-a-4 debate, DBR posters know he moves around a lot, usually spends a good bit of time on the wing on both O and D. What is Kyle? K says [about Kyle and many others], he's a player. He's a forward who shoots a fair number of 3s, a perimeter wing who drives, a combo wing/SF-interior/PF defender.

Kyle may be close to the perfect example of why the traditional backcourt/frontcourt designation no longer quite fits the game as played.

[greybeard]

The answer has to be "yes."

Sometimes the traditional designations, backcourt/frontcourt, don't do justice to the practical configuration employed by many teams, which is perimeter/interior. Many teams employ a 3-guard lineup, so the perimeter is a PG and 2 wings. If one of the wings is a bit taller than the other, that wing would traditionally be the SF. And since SF includes F, and since F is traditionally thought of as "frontcourt," then Kyle is still going to be thought of as frontcourt by some. And that is particularly true for sports writers, who look at all those other Duke guys who are shorter than Kyle and who seem to be guards. So if in the traditional designation, a team has a "backcourt" consisting of 2 guards, and Duke has 5 other guys who appear to be good-to-excellent guards, then Kyle is likely to be thought a forward.

Without reviving the Kyle-is-a-3, no-he's-a-4 debate, DBR posters know he moves around a lot, usually spends a good bit of time on the wing on both O and D. What is Kyle? K says [about Kyle and many others], he's a player. He's a forward who shoots a fair number of 3s, a perimeter wing who drives, a combo wing/SF-interior/PF defender.

Kyle may be close to the perfect example of why the traditional backcourt/frontcourt designation no longer quite fits the game as played.

I do not see Kyle as having a backcourt/guard game, at least he struggled last year early on when Duke tried to deploy him playing outside in. Kyle's feel, understanding, vision for the game seems oriented for an inside-out perspective. To the extent that one would call Rip Hamilton a "guard," then, yes, Kyle definitely plays similar to Hamilton, although Hamilton seems much more comfortable in catching it outside without having begun inside along the baseline and using his speed, cleverness, and uncanny ability to be running away from the basket, curl of a screen or catch at the line, turn, and be completely ready to shoot.

This, to me, is Kyle's strongest asset with regard to his exterior offense--that same ability that defenders cannot match to sprint out, curl or catch and turn and be ready to fire.

To me, Kyle is a modern day Dave Debusshire--capable of rebounding with giants, decent off the bounce and able to finish, very good mid and long range jump shooter, maybe off the bounce, great runner of the court, and great defender.

I think that the aspect of Kyle's game that could improve the most is his ability to penetrate the defense with the pass, to use his ability to see the game one or more steps ahead to catch and pass in ways that invite receptions that make the pivot player dangerous.

How, does Kyle develop this? He starts imaging it as he walks to class, as he is riding in a car, and starts thinking in such terms during practice. Developing the ability to multi-vision before the catch requires practicing with the idea of catching with having prepared oneself to make such interior passes a priority. Then, one can feel whether to catch and look for oneself, or catch and look to pass penetrate, multi-vision I shall call it, aka a Larry Bird. Fantacy play, imagining, is where it begins.

Few players have this ability to see the game as they move from both perspectives, instead of thinking only about one. Most scorer types are taught, self teach, to see as they move how they will set themselves up for a catch and score possibility and will always as a first reaction to examine shoot or dribble penetration option first.

I would like to see Kyle develop the ability to move with the intention of creating a catch that will present a great penetrating pass reception for an interior player, while at the same time thinking of creating a scoring opportunity for himself and to make deciisions on the fly as to which is most available.

I think Duke would benefit tremendously from Kyle's being really good at creating good interior receptions for the bigs, even for no other purpose of making the defense to work and react, only to have Duke's bigs kick it out, you know, like real PIVOT players. I also think that Kyle's attractiveness to the pros would go way up.

[SilkyJ]

The answer has to be "yes."

Sometimes the traditional designations, backcourt/frontcourt, don't do justice to the practical configuration employed by many teams, which is perimeter/interior. Many teams employ a 3-guard lineup, so the perimeter is a PG and 2 wings. If one of the wings is a bit taller than the other, that wing would traditionally be the SF. And since SF includes F, and since F is traditionally thought of as "frontcourt," then Kyle is still going to be thought of as frontcourt by some. And that is particularly true for sports writers, who look at all those other Duke guys who are shorter than Kyle and who seem to be guards. So if in the traditional designation, a team has a "backcourt" consisting of 2 guards, and Duke has 5 other guys who appear to be good-to-excellent guards, then Kyle is likely to be thought a forward.

Without reviving the Kyle-is-a-3, no-he's-a-4 debate, DBR posters know he moves around a lot, usually spends a good bit of time on the wing on both O and D. What is Kyle? K says [about Kyle and many others], he's a player. He's a forward who shoots a fair number of 3s, a perimeter wing who drives, a combo wing/SF-interior/PF defender.

Kyle may be close to the perfect example of why the traditional backcourt/frontcourt designation no longer quite fits the game as played.

Well, Kyle also spent significant time in the post his first 2 years and will likely play some minutes defending the opponents PF this year as well, so I understand the designation. Not to mention he averaged 7rpg last year...not many "backcourt" players do that.

[johnb]

So this puts Singler in the front court then. Does the preseason Player of the Year add enough to the two Plumlees, Ryan Kelly, and Josh Hairston to make that unit one of the best front courts in the country as well?

SI ranked the front court #2.

[Kedsy]

SI ranked the front court #2.

So, we have the #1 backcourt in the nation and the #2 frontcourt? I guess we have a pretty good team. ;)

[OldPhiKap]

So, we have the #1 backcourt in the nation and the #2 frontcourt? I guess we have a pretty good team. ;)

If only we had the #1 coach to meld them all together into one cohesive team . . . .




Can't wait for the games to begin!

[JasonEvans]

So, we have the #1 backcourt in the nation and the #2 frontcourt? I guess we have a pretty good team. ;)

Others who were ranked in both courts...

Purdue has the #1 frontcourt and the #12 backcourt.
Michigan St has the #15 frontcourt and the #2 backcourt.
Syracuse has the #7 frontcourt and the #10 backcourt.
Ohio State has the #9 frontcourt and the #9 backcourt.
Kansas has the #5 frontcourt and the #6 backcourt.

Also of note, NC State has the #16 frontcourt and that pale blue team down the road comes in with the #3 frontcourt in the land.

--Jason "of course, there can be big gaps in there... like I think there is a big gap from the #2 to #1 backcourts" Evans

[flyingdutchdevil]

#1 backcourt (by a long shot)
#2 frontcourt
#1 Coach (number of NCs, number of wins, number of basically everything)
2 Top 5 seniors
1 Top 5 freshman
Top 5 bench (that could start on the vast majority of ACC teams)

How can you not get excited! And how can CTC not come fast enough? What is going on here?

[gumbomoop]

Well, Kyle also spent significant time in the post his first 2 years and will likely play some minutes defending the opponents PF this year as well, so I understand the designation. Not to mention he averaged 7rpg last year...not many "backcourt" players do that.

Yes, I too understand the designation, but my more general point was that backcourt/frontcourt doesn't these days accurately reflect the proliferation of 3-perimeter/2-interior arrangements. Maybe I'm overstating the number of teams that for substantial portions of games use this; not sure. Anyhow, yes, if Kyle must be labeled either front- or backcourt, I guess he seems more front. In my preferred designation, he's a cross between perimeter and interior. How much of a cross gets us back into the roughly 2-years-running debate over whether Kyle is a 3 or 4. I'm avoiding that.

As for Kyle's defending opposing PFs at times, yes, I agree, having described him in my post as "a combo wing/SF-interior/PF defender."


I do not see Kyle as having a backcourt/guard game.... I would like to see Kyle develop the ability to move with the intention of creating a catch that will present a great penetrating pass reception for an interior player....I think Duke would benefit tremendously from Kyle's being really good at creating good interior receptions for the bigs....

I agree with you that Kyle doesn't exactly have a backcourt/guard game, but I also agree with your reference to Kyle passing to interior players, which seems to agree with me that Kyle may fairly, and probably more than intermittently, be described as a perimeter player. This doesn't mean that interior players can't pass to other interior players, but your phrase, "penetrating pass," seems most likely to come from a perimeter player.

So while I'm thrilled to see Duke have such highly rated front- and backcourts, I'm trying to make a broader point about why these designations are, maybe, becoming outmoded.

Having quoted only a small portion of your post in order to offer some clarification, I do want to add that I realize your post raises several other interesting issues about what we might see from Kyle.

[Duke: A Dynasty]

Looks like we will have a top backcourt again next year as well even if KI leaves and if he doesnt leave then well it should be preety much guranteed.

[jipops]

Also of note, NC State has the #16 frontcourt and that pale blue team down the road comes in with the #3 frontcourt in the land.

--Jason "of course, there can be big gaps in there... like I think there is a big gap from the #2 to #1 backcourts" Evans

UNC has 3 front court players who will be earning NBA paychecks some day so the #3 ranking may be about right. I actually think we may be rated a tad too high in this department. Is anyone besides Singler going to be a reliable scorer in the post? How well are we going to be able to defend the paint with Thomas and Zoubek gone?

I wonder, what are the criteria for being a top rated front court anyways?

[Jderf]

I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but the photo (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1010/cbb.preview.top.16.frontcourts/content.14.html) on UNC's page perfectly encapsulates how dysfunctional they were last season. Henson seems to have an easy block from behind, except Zeller is actually blindly grabbing Henson's arm and keeping his hand away from the ball. Classic.

[Bob Green]

Is anyone besides Singler going to be a reliable scorer in the post? How well are we going to be able to defend the paint with Thomas and Zoubek gone?

The answers to your two very important questions will go a long way toward determining how good we are this year. This is why I've repeatedly stated the performance of the Brothers Plumlee is critical. I believe, and many others have posted it as well, Miles and Mason will benefit from the uptempo offense so the main question is how improved they are on defense. Interior defense and rebounding are not glory duties, and they will not normally earn a player video clip time at ESPN but they are vital duties for a team to be successful.

[ACCBBallFan]

Duke back court continues to rack up awards.

Nolan first team on SI All American list

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2010-10-13/twitter-all-americans-missouris-kim-english-wins-fans-140-characters-at-a-time

[Kedsy]

Duke back court continues to rack up awards.

Nolan first team on SI All American list

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2010-10-13/twitter-all-americans-missouris-kim-english-wins-fans-140-characters-at-a-time

Well, that's SI's twitter All American list. Quite a different animal altogether.

[JasonEvans]

Duke back court continues to rack up awards.

Nolan first team on SI All American list

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2010-10-13/twitter-all-americans-missouris-kim-english-wins-fans-140-characters-at-a-time

Ummm, that is the Twitter first-team all-Americans. On-court talent may matter a bit, but Nolan is getting this honor because of his wonderful social media skillz.

-Jason "fun stuff!" Evans

[Troublemaker]

Singler drilled with the guards last season when Duke's practices separated into bigs (under Coach Wojo) and smalls (under Coach Collins). It'll be interesting to see how Kyle's practice time will be divided this season.

If we count Singler as a perimeter player, then Duke easily has the best perimeter in the country. We've witnessed Smith and Singler make big shots in big moments to win big games and become champions, and therefore no fanbase could possibly have more confidence in two star players than our confidence in our senior captains. (There are fans that think their guys can make big shots; we know [and more importantly, Smith and Singler know]). And then to add Irving, Curry, Dawkins, Thorton... sick.

[striker219]

Singler drilled with the guards last season when Duke's practices separated into bigs (under Coach Wojo) and smalls (under Coach Collins). It'll be interesting to see how Kyle's practice time will be divided this season.

They should probably run bigs with Wojo, smalls with Collins, and Kyle with Nate James. You know, like a badass-in-training program.

[Duke: A Dynasty]

They should probably run bigs with Wojo, smalls with Collins, and Kyle with Nate James. You know, like a badass-in-training program.

lol good idea but I just dont picture Singler as a badass. Maybe thats just me but do we even have one? Seth and Dre still look like kids I guess you could say, and Singler has a goofy kinda personality (ala Schyer), Nolan is to likeable, TT also with Dre and Seth. Plumlees maybe? I think AR could be that guy next year. Maybe even KI this year. :confused:

[flyingdutchdevil]

I just dont picture Singler as a badass.

Sadly, I have to agree with this. Kyle is tough as nails. But badasses don't have rosy cheeks when they play ball ;)

[theAlaskanBear]

Sadly, I have to agree with this. Kyle is tough as nails. But badasses don't have rosy cheeks when they play ball ;)

The only profession that combines badass with rosy cheeks that I know of, is of course, Santa...

[gumbomoop]

Without making any comparisons to Nate's baaaadness, I will repeat what I and others have observed about Kyle: he is unusually intense on D - unusually. It's possible there's actually been insufficient attention to Kyle's D, not because it's never discussed but because it's rarely received the sort of scrupulous analysis it merits, given the fact that Kyle himself seems to take his D pretty seriously.

When Kyle arrived at Duke, K said of him, "Singler gets it." Thinking back to this moment, you'd have to think K meant, among other things, Kyle understands both how to play at both ends and that it's crucial to do so.

[airowe]

You don't think Kyle is a badass because he won't let you.

That's part of his badassedness.

[ACCBBallFan]

Well, that's SI's twitter All American list. Quite a different animal altogether.

Yes, Thanks Kedsy and Jason, I knew that. Forgot to add the smiley face. :D

link name with MO's Kimmy English as #1 verifies that

[JasonEvans]

You don't think Kyle is a badass because he won't let you.

That's part of his badassedness.

Exactly. It is sorta like Fight Club so I cannot talk about it further but rest assured, Singler is a major league Badass!

--Jason "while you are looking at his rosy cheeks, I am looking at his cuts, bruises, and black eyes... total Badass!" Evans

[Lord Ash]

Exactly. It is sorta like Fight Club so I cannot talk about it further but rest assured, Singler is a major league Badass!

--Jason "while you are looking at his rosy cheeks, I am looking at his cuts, bruises, and black eyes... total Badass!" Evans

Thank you. Anyone who is that covered in bruises and cuts, and who flings himself over tables and announcers to an errant ball with absolutely no concern for his well being is ABSOLUTELY a badass.

[nocilla]

And this shirt exemplifies it;

http://ampersandthreads.bigcartel.com/product/black-eyes

[ACCBBallFan]

Duke and ACC well represented oin Gary parrish's top Point guards and combo guards

1. Jacob Pullen (Kansas State)
Pullen averaged 19.3 points last season and led the Wildcats to 29 wins. Similar numbers with a similar win total are possible if not likely for this Chicago native who is no longer in the shadows of high school rivals Derrick Rose and Evan Turner.

2. Nolan Smith (Duke)
Smith will play more on the wing than normal because Kyrie Irving and Seth Curry are both on the roster. But I still think Smith fits best on this list of points and combos because he's more of a combo than a true wing. He averaged 17.4 points last season and is a major reason -- perhaps the biggest -- the Blue Devils could repeat as national champions.

3. Jimmer Fredette (BYU)
Fredette spent last season mostly unknown nationally despite a huge regular season that included four games of at least 33 points. But then he put 45 on TCU in the Mountain West tournament and 37 on Florida in the NCAA tournament, and now he's a serious All-America candidate and a relevant star, somebody capable of leading BYU to a MWC title.

4. Shelvin Mack (Butler)
Mack has developed into a combo guard more than a point, but he's terrific either way. The 6-foot-3 junior averaged 14.1 points and 3.0 assists last season. Those numbers (at least the points) should increase with Gordon Hayward now in the NBA.

5. Kyrie Irving (Duke)
Those who think Duke might miss Jon Scheyer have clearly never seen Irving play. The 6-foot-2 freshman is a fundamentally sound, do-it-all point guard destined to make an immediate splash. If this ranking turns out to be too low, I won't be surprised.

6. Malcolm Delaney (Virginia Tech)
Delaney isn't a star outside of the ACC only because he has yet to lead the Hokies to the NCAA tournament. But that could -- and it should -- change this season, which would allow the Baltimore native to leave school on a nice note, then be drafted into the NBA.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/14160478/top-pointcombo-guards-pullen-and-his-beard-rank-no-1

[FireOgilvie]

The frontcourt rankings had Purdue #1 and Duke #2. With Hummel out, it looks like Duke now has both the number 1 backcourt and number 1 frontcourt. Not bad!

Here is the original full frontcourt list:

16. NC State
15. Michigan State
14. Florida
13. Gonzaga
12. Baylor
11. Wisconsin
10. Georgia
9. Ohio State
8. Kentucky (with Kanter)
7. Syracuse
6. Illinois
5. Kansas
4. Kansas State
3. North Carolina
2. Duke
1. Purdue (with Hummel)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1010/cbb.preview.top.16.frontcourts/content.1.html