Toughest nonconference schedules

[DevilHorns]

Luke Winn (CNNSI) provides a nice opinion piece regarding the top nonconference schedules this year (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/luke_winn/10/05/schedules/index.html). He ranks us at #8.

Last year (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/luke_winn/09/15/schedule/index.html) he ranked us #6.

Our out-of-conference opponents this upcoming season:

ROAD
11/27 at Oregon
1/30 at St. John's

NEUTRAL
11/22 vs. Marquette (CBE Classic, Kansas City)
11/23 vs. Kansas State/Gonzaga (CBE Classic)
12/4 vs. Butler (East Rutherford, N.J.)

HOME
12/1 vs. Michigan State
12/11 vs. St. Louis
1/5 vs. UAB
1/23 vs. Temple

I honestly think we have a harder schedule compared to some of the schools he ranked up above us. The quality of some of our harder slate of opponents on this list (Butler, K-state/Gonzaga, MSU, Marquette, St. Johns) is as hard as you can get. Man I can't wait for the MSU game this year. 3rd best game in all of basketball this year (1st UNC at Duke, 2nd Duke at UNC :) ).

[cbnaylor]

Don't forget Maryland and Butler! :)

[uh_no]

I honestly think we have a harder schedule compared to some of the schools he ranked up above us. The quality of some of our harder slate of opponents on this list (Butler, K-state/Gonzaga, MSU, Marquette, St. Johns) is as hard as you can get. Man I can't wait for the MSU game this year. 3rd best game in all of basketball this year (1st UNC at Duke, 2nd Duke at UNC :) ).

I think you overrate St. Johns.....i'm not sure I'd consider them a quality opponent just because they're in a bcs conference

[Duke: A Dynasty]

I think you overrate St. Johns.....i'm not sure I'd consider them a quality opponent just because they're in a bcs conference

I think Butler is overrated IMO.

[sagegrouse]

IMHO, of course (where the H is most often silent).

Using the collegehoops.com preseason rankings (http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/2011-mid-summer-preseason-top-50-ranking-168655), here are Georgetown's opponents by ranking:

13 Mizzou (semi-road)
17 @ Temple (Wells Fargo Ctr.)
26 @ Memphis
32 Utah St.
39 @ ODU

Here are Duke's:

3 Mich State
4 Kansas St. (or #31 Gonzaga) @ CBE
8 Butler (neutral)
17 Temple
38 Marquette @ CBE

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?? Duke plays three top ten teams in the OOC schedule; Georgetown plays none. Give Georgetown credit for playing on the road at Memphis, but not nearly as much for Temple and ODU. When Duke has played Temple at the FU/Wachovia/Wells Fargo Center, it was a huge arena with a bunch of Duke fans present. The ODU road game is a bit of a mystery, but not esp. frightening.

I can't for the life of me figure out why the Georgetown OOC schedule is harder than the Devils'.

sagegrouse

[Duvall]

I can't for the life of me figure out why the Georgetown OOC schedule is harder than the Devils'.

It's the same tired sanctification of the True Road Game. Never mind that a neutral site game against a good team is a far tougher test than a road game against a patsy - too many writers refuse to believe that anything other than a True Road Game can provide a real challenge.

[Olympic Fan]

Just a couple of points --

If Duke meets Kansas State in the finals of the CBE in Kansas City (likely IMHO), it will be about as neutral as UNC playing a non-conference team in Greensboro ... or Duke playing Baylor in Houston. The place will be packed with K-State fans

And after a long stretch of mediocrity, St. John's is being projected as much improved this eason. Don't know if that's justified by the talent or is a perception shaped by adding Steve Lavin as head coach. I do know that after he killed the UCLA series, then spent much of his time on ESPN ripping Duke, it will be sweet to get him on the court.

The list of Duke's home opponents is missing Bradley, which is probably as good as St. Louis or UAB (the Braves return the bulk of a 16-15 team.that had some success last year -- they best Illinois on a neutral court and split with the Northwern Iowa team that beat Kansas).

Not sure how Miami of Ohio stacks up in the MAC (they return four starters off a team that lost by two at Kentucky last year and finished strong after a weak early season), but they are a respectable mid-major. Princeton is poised to make a run at the Ivy League title after winning 22 last year and finishing second to Cornell.

Duke did dodge the bullet on its two Southern Conference opponents -- that league can sometimes produce a decent opponent, but neither Elon nor UNC Greensboro fits that bill this season.

[ACCBBallFan]

Though I much prefer to look at overall body of work and not just OOC, Here is what I came up with for toughest OOC.

I think Luke Winn places more weight on away/ neutral / home while I place more weight on quality of the opponent.

Top three OOC schedules are Texas, Illinois, and Mich St followed by Duke, MD, UCONN and Wake

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/schedules/teams
TX-6
9
Michigan St -2 D22
Pittsburgh -5 N19?
UNC -8 D18
Illinois -5 N18
Maryland -4 N19?
UCONN - 8 @J08

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/schedules/teams
Illini-9
13
Pittsburgh -5 N19?
UNC -8 @N30
Missouri -6 D22
Texas - 3 N18
Gonzaga -1 D04
Maryland -4 N19?

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/schedules/teams
Mich St-11
12
Duke -1 D01
Kentucky -1 (E-1) N24?
Syracuse -2 D07 in NY
Washington -2 N24?
Texas - 3 @D22
UCONN - 8 N23?

BTW that is Syracuse’s lone difficult OOC matchup. Ditto for KU whose only decent OOC opponent is Memphis.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/schedules/teams
Duke-11
9
Michigan St -2 @D01
Kansas St. -2 N23?
Butler -1 D04
Gonzaga -1 N23?
Temple -2 @F23
Marquette -7 N22

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/schedules/teams
MD-8
11
Pittsburgh -5 N18
Villanova -1 J15
Texas - 3 N19?
Illinois -5 N19?
Temple -2 D05

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/schedules/teams
Wake-9
10
Villanova -1 N26?
Tennessee -2 (E-2) N24?
Gonzaga -1 @J02
Xavier -1 D18
Richmond -3 D29
UCLA - 8 N26?


http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/schedules/teams
UCONN-10
10
Michigan St -2 N23?
Kentucky -1 (E-1) N24?
Washington -2 N24?
Tennessee -2 (E-2) @J22
Texas - 3 J08

The next group after these were: UNC, FSU, K-State, Pitt and G-town.

[ACCBBallFan]

I find OOC a meaningless stat and look at overall body of work instead.

Since the B10 is so strong this year, the toughest OOC schedule comes form there and is Illinois

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/schedules/teams
Illini-9
13 13
Purdue -1 @F13/M01
Michigan St -2 @J18/F19
Ohio St. -3 @J22/F22
Pittsburgh -5 N19?
UNC -8 @N30
Missouri -6 D22
Texas - 3 N18
Illinois -5 Illini
Gonzaga -1 D04
Wisc -4 @J02/J15
Maryland -4 N19?

The number after the team names is where they finished in conference last year.
Next toughest are Michigan State and Penn State and next after that is Maryland

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/schedules/teams
Mich St-11
12
Duke -1 D01
Purdue -1 J22/@F26F27
Michigan St -2 Mich St
Ohio St. -3 F15
Kentucky -1 (E-1) N24?
Syracuse -2 D07 in NY
Washington -2 N24?
Texas - 3 @D22
Illinois -5 J18/@F19
Wisc -4 @J11/F06
UCONN - 8 N23?
Minnesota-6 @D31/F22

I won’t list Penn St since nobody cares.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/schedules/teams
MD-8
11
Duke -1 J09/@F02
Pittsburgh -5 N18
Villanova -1 J15
UNC -8 F27
Texas - 3 N19?
Illinois -5 N19?
Temple -2 D05
VA Tech -7 @J20/F15
FSU -6 @F23


Duke and UNC are right up there but a few with one more tougher opponent: Purdue, K-St, TX A&M, UCONN, MN, NC St, Wake, Michigan, Indiana, Iowa , Oklahoma and Nebraska.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/schedules/teams
NC St
10
Duke -1 @J18/F05
Syracuse -2 D04
UNC -8 J29/@F23
Georgetown -4 N21?
Wisc -4 D01
VA Tech -7 @F02
FSU -6 J15/@M06
Maryland -4 F20

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/schedules/teams
Duke-11
9
Duke -1 Duke
Michigan St -2 @D01
Kansas St. -2 N23?
Butler -1 D04
UNC -8 @F09/M05
Gonzaga -1 N23?
Temple -2 @F23
VA Tech -7 F26
FSU -6 J12
Maryland -4 @J09/F02

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/schedules/teams
UNC-13
9
Duke -1 F09/@M05
Kentucky -1 (E-1) @D04
UNC -8 UNC
Texas - 3 @D18
Illinois -5 N30
West VA -3 N21?
VA Tech -7 @J13
FSU -6 @F06/M02
Maryland -4 @F27


One of the top 3 Winn mentions, Texas is tied with Duke and UNC along with several others: Ohio St, Pitt, Wisc, Marquette, Georgia, Vandy Notre Dame, Oklahoma St, TX Tech and UVA.

The other 2 Winn mentions Georgetown is one game below that and UK is 2 games below that.

G-town has same degree of difficulty as Nova, Baylor, FL, MO, FSU, Louisv, Miami FL, Seton Hall, NW, BC, Iowa St, Colorado, and So Carolina.

UK schedule overall is same as KU, Syracuse, TN, Zaga, W VA, MS ST, Clemson, St. John’s, Cincy, Wash St, Utah, USF, DePaul and Rutgers.

VA Tech better win a lot of games in ACC as their SOS is two notches below that behind everybody listed so far plus Calif, UNLV, GA Tech, UCLA, Oakland and Providence tied with Butler, Temple, Bama, USC, Charlotte, Miami OH and Colorado St.

Of majors, only teams from PAC 10 and SEC West not already listed have a worse SOS than VA Tech.

[Dev11]

Just a couple of points --

If Duke meets Kansas State in the finals of the CBE in Kansas City (likely IMHO), it will be about as neutral as UNC playing a non-conference team in Greensboro ... or Duke playing Baylor in Houston. The place will be packed with K-State fans



Don't forget Duke played Butler in Indianapolis. Remember when we couldn't win a road game last year?

[4decadedukie]

With regard to teams like Saint John's, they may no longer be as high quality an opponent, BUT THEY SCARE ME. Whenever -- in- or out-conference -- we play a team that has "nothing to lose" and can make "their season" with a victory against Duke (and this happens a LOT), I worry that they will be unbelievably up for the game, while we could be "looking ahead," with a resulting, unanticipated loss.

[NSDukeFan]

With regard to teams like Saint John's, they may no longer be as high quality an opponent, BUT THEY SCARE ME. Whenever -- in- or out-conference -- we play a team that has "nothing to lose" and can make "their season" with a victory against Duke (and this happens a LOT), I worry that they will be unbelievably up for the game, while we could be "looking ahead," with a resulting, unanticipated loss.

Isn't that just about every game? Duke lost 5 games last year and I believe the fans rushed the court for 4 of them?

[4decadedukie]

Isn't that just about every game?

Yes it is, which is precisely why "LOT" was emphasized in my post.

[uh_no]

With regard to teams like Saint John's, they may no longer be as high quality an opponent, BUT THEY SCARE ME. Whenever -- in- or out-conference -- we play a team that has "nothing to lose" and can make "their season" with a victory against Duke (and this happens a LOT), I worry that they will be unbelievably up for the game, while we could be "looking ahead," with a resulting, unanticipated loss.

so with that argument you could always argue that duke has the toughest OOC schedule....

[4decadedukie]

so with that argument you could always argue that duke has the toughest OOC schedule....

Yes, among the toughest, although I respectfully suggest the same phenomenon exists with a handful of other, currently-most-competitive and historically storied programs (UNC, UConn, and Syracuse could be examples). I realize the NCAA Selection Committee does not view strength of schedule in this manner; however, it is a fact that many teams play at a different, more-competitive level against a Duke or a UNC than a UVa or a NCSU.

[uh_no]

Yes, among the toughest, although I respectfully suggest the same phenomenon exists with a handful of other, currently-most-competitive and historically storied programs (UNC, UConn, and Syracuse could be examples). I realize the NCAA Selection Committee does not view strength of schedule in this manner; however, it is a fact that many teams play at a different, more-competitive level against a Duke or a UNC than a UVa or a NCSU.

yeah but the storied programs make the tournament every year anyway, so what the selecti.......oh wait :P

[Duvall]

I realize the NCAA Selection Committee does not view strength of schedule in this manner; however, it is a fact that many teams play at a different, more-competitive level against a Duke or a UNC than a UVa or a NCSU.

*Is* that a fact, though? There have certainly been games where an otherwise overmatched team raised its level of play for a game against a "name" opponent, but there have also been games where teams with much smaller talent disadvantages allowed themselves to be taken out of the game by the magnitude of the moment, and ended getting blown out by a Duke or UNC. Not sure where scenario is more common; the close games are certainly more memorable.

[camion]

I notice that many of the teams ranked highly in SOS play a team named, "Duke." It's too bad we can't schedule them; that would really help our SOS.

Could we count the blue/white game? Twice? Could we count them as "away" games since they would be played on the opponent's home court?

[4decadedukie]

*Is* that a fact, though? There have certainly been games where an otherwise overmatched team raised its level of play for a game against a "name" opponent, but there have also been games where teams with much smaller talent disadvantages allowed themselves to be taken out of the game by the magnitude of the moment, and ended getting blown out by a Duke or UNC. Not sure where scenario is more common; the close games are certainly more memorable.

It is difficult to disagree, I have no long-accrued database, and you are certainty right that the "the close games are certainly more memorable." Nonetheless, my visceral feeling is (for reasons mentioned in my foregoing posts) that there are more "ascendants to a higher competitive level" than there are "intimidation blowouts."