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theasem
06-06-2007, 10:16 AM
I do not agree with DBR's use of the word "jihad" dealing with Feinstein.

Jihad is a term that means struggle in the name of God, not just a "holy war" as much of the world sees it.

I know it might be a little strange for me nitpick on every last detail, but I am just tired of all the bias, not specifically by DBR but by everyone in general.

I don't write on this wall much due to past occurrences, but as a Muslim, I thought it was important to deal with this and not just let it slide.

SilkyJ
06-06-2007, 10:35 AM
I know it might be a little strange for me nitpick on every last detail, but I am just tired of all the bias, not specifically by DBR but by everyone in general.



To what bias are you referring?

duke74
06-06-2007, 10:36 AM
I may not agree with the use of the word "Jihad" vis a vis Feinstein, but more because it trivalizes the use of the word. Jihad may, in its purest sense, just mean "struggle in the name of God," as you suggest, but as practiced by the Global Salafist Jihadist movement it means death to apostates and infidels--plain and simple. Just witness the many fatwas to that effect.

Until mainstream Muslims disavow the takfir concept openly and directly, I am afraid that dispite your concerns the world WILL in fact associate jihad with its basest application.

Reisen
06-06-2007, 10:45 AM
I may not agree with the use of the word "Jihad" vis a vis Feinstein, but more because it trivalizes the use of the word. Jihad may, in its purest sense, just mean "struggle in the name of God," as you suggest, but as practiced by the Global Salafist Jihadist movement it means death to apostates and infidels--plain and simple. Just witness the many fatwas to that effect.

Until mainstream Muslims disavow the takfir concept openly and directly, I am afraid that dispite your concerns the world WILL in fact associate jihad with its basest application.

Well said.

WeepingThomasHill
06-06-2007, 12:47 PM
theasem wrote:

"I know it might be a little strange for me nitpick on every last detail, but I am just tired of all the bias, not specifically by DBR but by everyone in general."

So now you are leading a jihad against free speech? DBR's use of the word is no different than saying that "everything is kosher" with Paulus' foot.

allenmurray
06-06-2007, 12:56 PM
He didn't ask them to change it - he simply stated that he disagreed with it. It seems he is both allowing free speech and practicing it as well. I don't see him crusading against free speech at all - merely stating his opinion on something.

Whether used to mean a struggle in the name of God or sued to mean death to apostates and infidels it seems an odd choice for DBR to have used. No matter which way we want to interpret the word "jihad" to apply it to a disagreement between an elite university and one of its graduates seems a bit over the top.

natedog4ever
06-06-2007, 01:02 PM
He didn't ask them to change it - he simply stated that he disagreed with it. It seems he is both allowing free speech and practicing it as well. I don't see him crusading against free speech at all - merely stating his opinion on something.

Uh, huhuh, huh - he said "crusade", huhuhuh.

theasem
06-06-2007, 01:18 PM
He didn't ask them to change it - he simply stated that he disagreed with it. It seems he is both allowing free speech and practicing it as well. I don't see him crusading against free speech at all - merely stating his opinion on something.

Whether used to mean a struggle in the name of God or sued to mean death to apostates and infidels it seems an odd choice for DBR to have used. No matter which way we want to interpret the word "jihad" to apply it to a disagreement between an elite university and one of its graduates seems a bit over the top.

thanks for backing me up dude. you say one thing and 12 people jump on your back. no wonder i haven't posting on this wall for a while.

madscavenger
06-06-2007, 02:20 PM
He didn't ask them to change it - he simply stated that he disagreed with it. It seems he is both allowing free speech and practicing it as well. I don't see him crusading against free speech at all - merely stating his opinion on something.

Whether used to mean a struggle in the name of God or sued to mean death to apostates and infidels it seems an odd choice for DBR to have used. No matter which way we want to interpret the word "jihad" to apply it to a disagreement between an elite university and one of its graduates seems a bit over the top.

I am pleased to see the rigorous fortitude displayed in this thread's intellectual pursuit in its quest to determine whether jihad and Jihad are one and the same. Kudos to all sides for indulging in and the support of their particular favorite flavor of kool aid. Makes me really proud of my degree (and to wonder whether the art of thinking before constructing an argument has been relegated to the obsolete in favor of its apparently modern equivalent, an arena full of gladiators unaware of their naked plight.

But then, thats just my opinion.


[Aside to allenmurray: this rant not directed at you specifically.

madscavenger]

allenmurray
06-06-2007, 02:33 PM
thanks for backing me up dude. you say one thing and 12 people jump on your back. no wonder i haven't posting on this wall for a while.

It ain't what it used to be, that's for damn sure. Just be glad you didn't make your post on the PublicPolicy Board - then the thread would be 78,534 pages long, with half of them screaming for your blood and the other half declaring you to be a victim of BushCheney persecution. One thing is certain, no one would pay any attention to the fact that all you did was express your own opinion, quite politely, and without asking anyone else to do anything different.

That someone would equate you saying that you disagreed with DBR's word usage to you supporting a "jihad" against free speech shows that Paul Simon was right ( . . . a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest . . .)

riverside6
06-06-2007, 02:48 PM
That someone would equate you saying that you disagreed with DBR's word usage to you supporting a "jihad" against free speech shows that Paul Simon was right ( . . . a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest . . .)

Paul Simon is a conservative? :)

unwrinkled ear
06-06-2007, 02:54 PM
hey theasem - don't worry, there are a few people who read these boards that don't automatically rush to defend duke or DBR.

your point was well made

Johnny B
06-07-2007, 06:28 AM
"There shall in that time be rumors of things going astray, erm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things with the sort of raffia-work base, that has an attachment. At that time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer, and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight O'clock."

Bostondevil
06-07-2007, 03:07 PM
If you didn't want to start a discussion, why post?

You can't expect everyone to agree with you around here and if you don't want to hear counter opinions, well, OK, you said you were going back to lurking.

Discussions are good things. Even when everyone doesn't agree with you.

feldspar
06-07-2007, 04:22 PM
If you didn't want to start a discussion, why post?

You can't expect everyone to agree with you around here and if you don't want to hear counter opinions, well, OK, you said you were going back to lurking.

Discussions are good things. Even when everyone doesn't agree with you.

Agreed. I happen to agree with your overall point, theasem but jeez, man. Don't curl up and act like a whipped puppy when people disagree with you.

GoDukeDevils
06-07-2007, 04:22 PM
I do not agree with DBR's use of the word "jihad" dealing with Feinstein.

I don't write on this wall much due to past occurrences, but as a Muslim, I thought it was important to deal with this and not just let it slide.

You know what, get over it. I hear on a daily basis people using the word "crucify" in a similar manner. (i.e., the Duke lacrosse boys were crucified in the media before trial.) Life is too short to nitpick at every little thing. Words like crucify and jihad have come to be used in ways other than their true meanings.

cspan37421
06-07-2007, 04:56 PM
Language evolves. Think about reading a book written 100-125 years ago when "gay" simply meant happy.

The term "jihad" does have a very specific meaning, but it is starting to be applied broadly to any struggle or opposition effort. Remember the hubub about the radio ad for (IIRC) an auto dealer who tongue-in-cheek declared a "jihad against high prices" ? Inappropriate? Probably. Human nature? Definitely.

Grey Devil
06-08-2007, 01:27 AM
I read this thread and immediately remembered hearing a story on NPR a couple of years ago about how "jihad" has taken on a different usage and meaning in the US than its original Muslim meaning. From what I somewhat fuzzily recalled, our current national "leadership" has used the term, jihad, differently from its original meaning to guide us to a certain way of thinking and to believe certain things they wanted us to believe about their/our international policies. Not certain that I remembered it correctly, I decided to see if I could find it on the web.

Thanks to the wonders of Google I found it instantly. Here it is. Listen and learn:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4273847

Your reactions now?

BTW, an earlier poster in this thread made reference to using one's Duke education to make informed decisions and creating informed opinions. This thread really struck home for me because of my Duke education. I was sensitized to the use of language while a student at Duke in the late 60s/early 70s, because of the way certain words were used as "weapons" then. I was also influenced by a Poli Sci course I took about war and peace, then in the context of Vietnam. A portion of the course focused on how language usage (and specifically control of the vocabulary) often frames the context of debate about whether to go to war or not. I believe that is what happened in our rush to invade Iraq. The current administration controlled the dialog by controlling and defining our understanding of certain words -- words like jihad, for instance....or "weapons of mass destruction" or any number of other terms.

So I would tend to side with the intent of the original poster on this thread.

Maybe this thread does belong on the off topic board...

Grey Devil

P.S. I should clarify that I posted this link without listening to the NPR story again. For some reason, my Real Player is not functioning properly and it chokes whenever I try to play it. I feel pretty certain, however, that the NPR story is the one I heard, based on its description. I'm just a little worried about the accuracy of my memory as I described it above. (After all, someone who went to Duke when I did is starting to get along in the years now!)

Jarhead
06-08-2007, 07:39 AM
P.S. I should clarify that I posted this link without listening to the NPR story again. For some reason, my Real Player is not functioning properly and it chokes whenever I try to play it. I feel pretty certain, however, that the NPR story is the one I heard, based on its description. I'm just a little worried about the accuracy of my memory as I described it above. (After all, someone who went to Duke when I did is starting to get along in the years now!)

I have been getting the same results with Real Player, but after selecting Windows Media, it came through loud and clear. Enjoyed your post. You made a lot of sense. I went to Duke before you did, by the way.

DevilAlumna
06-08-2007, 04:02 PM
Maybe this thread does belong on the off topic board...

Grey Devil

Come continue the discussion on the Public Policy board. We love well-reasoned arguments and comments such as the one you just posted.

Cavlaw
06-08-2007, 05:22 PM
Come continue the discussion on the Public Policy board. We love well-reasoned arguments and comments such as the one you just posted.
This is why no one listens to me on that board... but I keep posting anyway!

SilkyJ
06-08-2007, 10:25 PM
Boooo this thread!

Hooray DBeeR!

Grey Devil
06-08-2007, 11:07 PM
Come continue the discussion on the Public Policy board. We love well-reasoned arguments and comments such as the one you just posted.

Thanks for the invite, DevilAlumna. But I don't get much chance to post often, and when I do it tends to be late at night, so by the time I do post the conversations have usually passed me by.

But I will check it out and when the opportunity presents itself I will contribute.

Grey Devil

Bob Green
06-09-2007, 12:34 AM
Thanks for the invite, DevilAlumna. But I don't get much chance to post often, and when I do it tends to be late at night, so by the time I do post the conversations have usually passed me by.

But I will check it out and when the opportunity presents itself I will contribute.

Grey Devil

I reside 13 time zones ahead of the East Coast but still enjoy participating on the PPB. Actually the time difference is a nice safety net at times. When everyone is blasting my opinion, I'm sleeping.

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan