Women in the Locker Room

[dukebluelemur]

With all the fuss about the Ines Sainz/NY Jets situation, what do you all think?
My feeling is, while the Jets were wrong to harass her, we need to be honest about a few things. 1) Its a room full of 50 naked or partially naked men. I don't care if they are all Ghandi reincarnated, that's an awkward situation. That's obvious from all the players speaking out on the issue. 2) She is a reasonably attractive lady who certainly does nothing to hide that fact... that will be commented on in an environment of naked, mostly single men.

Did the Jets act like Neanderthals? Sure, but as my wife will tell you, men, by and large ARE Neanderthals...

Much to my chagrin, I find myself agreeing with Greg Doyel (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/13951537/close-the-locker-rooms-to-all-media-men-and-women) for the third time in the last week or so.... All reporters out of the locker room, let the athletes have some privacy. Their presence isn't necessary (there are other ways of giving them access to the players), and its awkward for all involved.

[Lord Ash]

I have to say, I think nothing good can come of the situation. Ms. Sainz is young and extremely attractive and does not dress in a typical "sports jacket and slacks" way, and while that doesn't EXCUSE the behavior, I think it also makes it simply more likely something that she or others may deem inappropriate will happen. I think there is a certain point where this sort of thing won't always be squashed.

For those people who wonder (I had actually not seen her before I just searched for her) this is the reporter in question. While she IS fully clothed in the photo and is actually working a game in the photo, you still might not want a boss (or wife) looking over your shoulder if you click the link, which is a little bizarre to type, honestly.

Ms. Sainz (http://urbansportstalk.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/ines-sainz3.jpg)

I hate to risk sounding sexist, but I do wonder if women reporters should be in the locker room of a mens sport. I have always wondered, when doing locker room interviews with women reporters around and naked male athletes, what this is like for both parties. Certainly I would not be comfortable/act natural. I dated a very attractive young woman who covered the Rangers, and she said that she would look at the nude male athletes with some regularity (and with some appreciation... she always talked about her favorites) and that it was impossible not to. This same girl often had to "dress not-to-impress" as she was very shapely (very restrictive sports bras, turtle necks, and a blazer on top) and a number of the players had nonetheless approached her in a "friendly" way a number of times.

I know that we cannot keep opposite gender reporters out of locker rooms because there would be an uproar, so maybe in order to avoid that, they SHOULD simply kick all reporters out of the room, and simply have interviews in the hallway (as some places do) or in an interview room. Ugh, now I have to shower to get the agree-with-Doyle stink off of me.

Oh, and lemur, you would be surprised; a lot of pro athletes are actually family men.

[Mike Corey]

Agreed that reporters should not be permitted in locker rooms.

But that aside, mistreatment is not invited no matter the physical appearance of any reporter.

[Lord Ash]

Maybe not invited, but that general and somewhat universal statement aside, we are being unrealistic to think that it won't happen. It would just be smarter to create a proper interview environment, rather than one where nude young men and beautiful young women in inappropriate attire are expected to shake hands, look each other in the eye seriously, and discuss the depth chart of wide receivers, or where to shoot on a butterfly goaltender.

[Blue in the Face]

Genuine question, since I don't know. How is this handled with women's sports? I assume (perhaps incorrectly) male reporters aren't allowed in women's locker rooms. Are female reporters allowed, or does everyone just wait for the players to come out to speak with them?

[Lord Ash]

I believe men are allowed in WNBA locker rooms after a mandatory closed period, similar to other pro sports. For individual sports like tennis or golf I don't know.

[dukebluelemur]

Oh, and lemur, you would be surprised; a lot of pro athletes are actually family men.

I won't disagree, because you're right, but it is a blurry line. Just because an athlete has a family doesn't mean he isn't playing the field (*cough*Tiger*cough*), or at the very least, joking around with his fellows in a manner his wife (or the female reporter at the next locker) might not find appropriate. I've worked in a close-knit, all male environment before, and just because my boss was devoted to his wife and kids didn't mean he wasn't rating women and making suggestive comments right along with the rest of us mostly college age single guys. There seems to be a lowest common denominator that any sufficiently large group of men will eventually sink to :(

[rasputin]

I think it's odd that this is an issue again. I think it was around 1980 that Dave Kingman got in trouble for mailing a dead mouse to some female reporter of whom he disapproved because of her presence in the locker room. There was a big firestorm when a judge ordered that female reporters had to be given the same access as males.

I have also found it odd that reporters, regardless of gender, are in the locker room with naked athletes. I think everybody ought to have the right to some privacy.

[bjornolf]

I agree that all news reporters should be kicked. It's a ridiculous situation for all parties involved. I also have to ask if all reporters shouldn't have to show a certain "professionalism" in their dress and attitude. Do male reporters saunter around (and yes, she saunters, I've seen it. Sachet might be a more appropriate term...) in tight jeans and unbuttoned shirts (I know hers wasn't unbuttoned, but it's an equivalent look for men)? If they did, how long would they be working for?

This woman flaunts her sexuality at every turn and doesn't act in a professional manner around the players. Going to Super Bowls to "measure" players" biceps (several incidents of her "caressing" and "commenting" on players' arm sizes have been reported). Encouraging players to carry her around on their shoulders. When Americans go to other countries in a professional capacity, they try to fit in and honor the other culture (soldiers have to travel to other countries to see their wives so their wives don't break certain cultural expectations, woman dress in traditional clothes to avoid offending, we bow...the list goes on and on). Shouldn't we expect the same cultural respect from "professionals" from other countries?

From all the reports I've heard, a player called her "pretty lady" in spanish, "bonita senora". Is that really harassment when you're dressed that way? She said multiple times that she was never approached in a "sexual" manner nor did she ever feel "threatened", just not taken seriously as a journalist. I'm sorry, but is that harassment, or is that the media blowing something that's really nothing wildly out of proportion? If she was harassed, why did she tweet it instead of going to security? From what I've heard, security approached HER AFTER she tweeted, not the other way around.

I'm sorry, I just don't see what the big deal is here. She's getting her 15 minutes of fame out of this, and I think that's exactly what she was looking for. If a female reporter who had always been totally professional in every manner was treated this way, yes, it would disrespectful. But let's face it, as a "journalist", this woman's reporting has always been a fun sideshow.

Like I said, kick everybody out of the locker room and have a little respect. I played football, and I can tell you, I wouldn't be comfortable with men OR women in the locker room that I didn't know. Where else in all of society do people run into what is essentially a public bathroom just to talk to random people, let alone the opposite sex bathroom, without getting arrested? It's gross, in my book.

[Reddevil]

It is often said that legality is the lowest standard that must be met. In this case I agree. Just because it is legal for opposite gender reporters to be in a locker room, does not make it a good idea. It is a recipe for bad results. Never mind that in my four decades of being a sports fan, I have NEVER heard a single report out of any locker room that was at all compelling. The whole thing is unnecessary. I don't know how it all started, but I think locker rooms should just be for the players, coaches, and trainers. I keep hearing the argument that these reporters HAVE to get their story. So? Watch the game like the rest of us and find something interesting to say about it. The quotes coming out of the locker room are worthless in my opinion. If the league wants to make a coach and a few players available after the game like coach K, Zoubs, and others did after the championship game, that is far more entertaining.

[cato]

Do male reporters saunter around (and yes, she saunters, I've seen it. Sachet might be a more appropriate term...) in tight jeans and unbuttoned shirts (I know hers wasn't unbuttoned, but it's an equivalent look for men)?

Good lord, I hope not. (Male) Sports reporters generally look more like Rex Ryan than Matt Ryan.

As to the rest of your points, I almost completely disagree. Professional sports players are in the entertainment industry, and the consumers clearly want access. It would be foolish to kick all reporters out of the locker room.

As to the awkward nature of having men and women in the locker room, well, there are a lot of things people have had to adjust to in the process of incorporating women into the workplace as full fledged equals. Working with women who "flaunt their sexuality" (whever that is supposed to mean) is simply one of those things that grown up men should have no trouble dealing with. Frankly, I think that would be much less of a problem than men who flaunt whatever it is they feel the need to flaunt.

[Lord Ash]

As to the awkward nature of having men and women in the locker room, well, there are a lot of things people have had to adjust to in the process of incorporating women into the workplace as full fledged equals. Working with women who "flaunt their sexuality" (whever that is supposed to mean) is simply one of those things that grown up men should have no trouble dealing with. Frankly, I think that would be much less of a problem than men who flaunt whatever it is they feel the need to flaunt.

Wow... really? You honestly think that being a completely nude man talking to a beautiful woman (in this case, a former Miss Spain) in a revealing set of clothes is the same thing as sitting in your shirt and tie next to a woman at a board table? I am a grown man, and if the reporter in question was standing dressed like that in front of me while I stood nude in front of her I think it would be RIDICULOUS to expect that it would be the same as working with a woman in a normal work environment.

I would NEVER want to have to "get used" to that, and frankly I think it is unrealistic to expect that to ever fully and completely happen. The only people who see me naked are me, my wife, and my doctor, and frankly, I am fine with that. A sports reporter would come in about 1,244th on a list of people who need to see me naked to get their job done.

And honestly, with the case that we are currently discussing, if you question what "flaunting your sexuality" means, I strongly suggest you click on the link I provided earlier, or do a few quick google searches of the woman reporter in question. You can then compare her style and work dress to Erin Andrews or Doris Burke or Robin Roberts or Linda Cohn, OR compare it to any male sports reporters at all, and it might give you an idea why this particular story is what it is.

[rasputin]

Wow... really? You honestly think that being a completely nude man talking to a beautiful woman (in this case, a former Miss Spain) in a revealing set of clothes is the same thing as sitting in your shirt and tie next to a woman at a board table? I am a grown man, and if the reporter in question was standing dressed like that in front of me while I stood nude in front of her I think it would be RIDICULOUS to expect that it would be the same as working with a woman in a normal work environment.

I would NEVER want to have to "get used" to that, and frankly I think it is unrealistic to expect that to ever fully and completely happen. The only people who see me naked are me, my wife, and my doctor, and frankly, I am fine with that. A sports reporter would come in about 1,244th on a list of people who need to see me naked to get their job done.

And honestly, with the case that we are currently discussing, if you question what "flaunting your sexuality" means, I strongly suggest you click on the link I provided earlier, or do a few quick google searches of the woman reporter in question. You can then compare her style and work dress to Erin Andrews or Doris Burke or Robin Roberts or Linda Cohn, OR compare it to any male sports reporters at all, and it might give you an idea why this particular story is what it is.

Part of what's going on, of course, is that the women reporters aren't "full fledged equals" in that, for the most part, they have to be eye candy to get the job in the first place, and it's not so for men. In any event, a lot of the female reporters, including those listed above, do their jobs well. I wish we could say that for all the clowns we see in sports reporting.

Lord Ash is, of course, correct in that there's a huge difference in style and dress involved in this particular case. And young men are NEVER gonna just get used to this phenomenon.

[devil84]

I agree with the other posters who think that the reporters don't need to be in the locker room. There's no reason for reporters to interview partially dressed athletes.

Likewise, I think that reporters can show up dressed professionally, which means no amount of midriff skin showing, a moderate amount of cleavage, and clothing that does not show off every one of her curves.

It doesn't sound like Ines Sainz is terribly upset over the whole thing. See this Good Morning America piece (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/nfl-sideline-reporter-ines-sainz-harassed-jets-11631727&tab=9482930&section=1206852&playlist=11128081&page=1) and her interview with George Stephanopolous.

In the GMA piece, it's reported that she calls herself "the hottest sports reporter in Mexico." OK, if you want to call yourself the "hottest" anything, be prepared for men, particularly those in various states of undress in their own locker room, to respond to the way you've packaged and marketed yourself.

But this quote from her is the most telling, when Stephanopolous asked her about the incident: "I wasn't concerned, and I must say that I'm not the one who made the charge, who say 'I feel uncomfortable,' and 'please do something.' I'm not the one. The problem begins with a collegauge of mine came with me and told me I'm so sorry for you it mustn't happen. ... In the presenting moment I'm not worried about it."

Sounds like the colleague was the one put out by the guys' behavior, not Ines Sainz.

Seeing as I have some first-hand experience with women in a male locker room, I'm thinking that what happened sounds like the guys were having fun vocalizing their appreciation of her appearance. Sure, they could have been perfect gentlemen and not noticed, but she's in their locker room, a place where acceptable behavior is different than a press conference (just like there's differing acceptable behaviors between your living room, a public bathroom, a board room, and Cameron Indoor, for just a few examples). The comments Ines relates don't seem to be over the top at all. She could have chosen a slightly different wardrobe that would have shown her as an attractive, yet still professional, sports reporter, instead of calling attention to her *ahem* assets. And she doesn't seem terribly concerned about their behavior. Much ado about nothing, IMHO.

Honestly, athletes should be allowed their privacy to shower and dress before being interviewed. Get the reporters out of the locker rooms.

[weezie]

OK, if you want to call yourself the "hottest" anything, be prepared for men....to respond....

So true, devil84. What a cross I have had to bear all these many years as "hottest Blue Devil female fan of a certain age on the planet," really.

[Indoor66]

So true, devil84. What a cross I have had to bear all these many years as "hottest Blue Devil female fan of a certain age on the planet," really.

Yes, but to freeze that one, truly idyllic moment in time forever.... :cool:

[brevity]

Never mind that in my four decades of being a sports fan, I have NEVER heard a single report out of any locker room that was at all compelling. The whole thing is unnecessary. I don't know how it all started, but I think locker rooms should just be for the players, coaches, and trainers. I keep hearing the argument that these reporters HAVE to get their story. So? Watch the game like the rest of us and find something interesting to say about it. The quotes coming out of the locker room are worthless in my opinion. If the league wants to make a coach and a few players available after the game like coach K, Zoubs, and others did after the championship game, that is far more entertaining.

I almost agree with you. I have 2 points of disagreement:

1. If all reporters based their stories on what they saw, then the stories would mostly be the same, separated only by how well the game is described. Reporters need an inside angle to make their stories unique. The quote in the locker room is their chance. And yes, it's still usually worthless.

2. Limiting a reporter's access to a few players after a game may work in basketball, but not football. An exciting game in the NFL could give you at least 10 players per team who might say something afterward worth printing, but the press room isn't going to fit all of them. And even then the reporter only sees the players that are made available, which may not include those that have the most interesting things to say.

So, ultimately, I support reporters (male or female) in the locker room, as useless as the practice is. It might be preferable to have a reporter-free period so that players can get dressed, but impractical to assume that all players have identically timed postgame rituals.

[blazindw]

For those who can't vision a locker room without reporters (of either sex), no reporters are allowed in locker rooms at the World Cup or the Olympics. There are mixed zones where all reporters can stand and players are made available to them for questions. However, they are not allowed in the locker room.

I think that this is something that should happen on a regular basis. There's no reason why an interview cannot wait 5 minutes while a person gets changed in a locker room.

[bjornolf]

So, ultimately, I support reporters (male or female) in the locker room, as useless as the practice is. It might be preferable to have a reporter-free period so that players can get dressed, but impractical to assume that all players have identically timed postgame rituals.

1. Then why aren't male reporters allowed in a WNBA locker room, if we're going to be completely "equal"?

2. You mentioned that not all the players would fit in a press room, and that guys have different length postgame rituals. Perfect. As a trade for their privacy, all players are required to enter the press room and at least do a quick "Any questions?" and if there are, they have to stay for at least five minutes or something. Players trickle in as they are done. If they finish in the locker room fast, they can get out of there. If they want to do their press time before showering like college basketball players do, then they can be done first and hit the showers as the other guys are done. With the varying lengths of guys' post game ritual, I doubt the interview room would ever be overcrowded, and if it was, then a couple players would just have to wait a minute or two. There ARE a few NFL teams WITH an interview room that DON'T allow reporters in the locker room. And for the few players (Brian Mitchell mentioned this yesterday...he was EXTREMELY embarrassed, and would yell at male or female reporters to give him a minute to get a robe on) that are truly embarrassed by the situation, why should they have to deal with humiliation? When are their feelings taken into account? At the very least, CAMERAS have no place in a locker room, except MAYBE for a few minutes after something like a World Series win, when no one is nude and everyone is spraying champagne all over each other.

3. As devil84 pointed out, and I've heard her say myself, she NEVER felt threatened. She NEVER felt that the comments were sexual. She never felt uncomfortable. She TWEETED about it, for goodness sake. It was a COLLEAGUE that reported it, NOT her. And yet, every headline I see on google says she was "harassed" and "sexual comments" and "endured" and "uncomfortable". This is my point. The words out of the own woman's mouth have refuted all the news stories. Reporting is just ridiculous and misinterpreted 9/10. If they can't get THAT right, why do they need to be in locker rooms getting all THOSE stories wrong?

[JohnGalt]

As logical as it sounds, they'll never dismiss reporters of any sex from the locker rooms. The press would simply scream "freedom of the press" and the most basic freedom of all - personal privacy - would continue to be lost in the chatter of typewritters and teleprompters puking out borderline libelous, inane catch phrases.

The mob is fickle and will always be so.

[bjornolf]

As logical as it sounds, they'll never dismiss reporters of any sex from the locker rooms. The press would simply scream "freedom of the press" and the most basic freedom of all - personal privacy - would continue to be lost in the chatter of typewritters and teleprompters puking out borderline libelous, inane catch phrases.

The mob is fickle and will always be so.

There ARE three or four NFL teams that do NOT allow press in the locker room, so it IS done.

[Duvall]

1. Then why aren't male reporters allowed in a WNBA locker room, if we're going to be completely "equal"?


They are.

[Duvall]

Good lord, I hope not. (Male) Sports reporters generally look more like Rex Ryan than Matt Ryan.


Although this does usually result in tight jeans and unbuttoned shirts.

[bjornolf]

1. Then why aren't male reporters allowed in a WNBA locker room, if we're going to be completely "equal"?



They are.

When the players are still in a state of undress? Wow, I had no idea. All the radio shows I heard yesterday were saying the opposite. I apologize then. I guess we DO have equality. I'm not a fan of it in either case, though.

[JG Nothing]

When the players are still in a state of undress? Wow, I had no idea. All the radio shows I heard yesterday were saying the opposite. I apologize then. I guess we DO have equality. I'm not a fan of it in either case, though.

Quote from Bob Kravitz (Indy Star): "And yes, I've gone into women's sports locker rooms like the Fever. They stay in their clothes or wear a robe during interviews."

http://www.indystar.com/article/20100917/SPORTS15/9170330/

[Duke Mom]

Bill Maher:

"...Ines Sainz must drop her ridiculous claim that she was harassed by the New York Jets. We all saw the game on Monday night and if there is one thing that the Jets team is not, it's offensive." :o

[weezie]

Although this does usually result in tight jeans and unbuttoned shirts.

Geez, I gotta remember not to read these boards when I'm having a snack...

[alteran]

Did the Jets act like Neanderthals? Sure, but as my wife will tell you, men, by and large ARE Neanderthals...

Why do people always hassle the Neanderthals? ;)

[alteran]

I agree with whoever said, "man, are we still talking about this?" Women in the locker room was surprising in 1980, but now?

I also agree with devil84, much todo about nothing. The reporter did not complain at all. In her interview she said she didn't particularly care for it but she knew what she was getting into. She was very clear that it wasn't her doing the complaining.

How she dresses is, IMHO, completely irrelevant. I see women dressed as alluringly as Ms. Saintz all the time in bars, and certainly more so when I go to the beach. While sometimes my eyes pop out of my head, I am never hit with a compulsion to say anything crass to/around them. Anyone who says they ARE compelled is either 1) lying, or 2) in need of treatment.

If we really cared, we'd ban EVERYONE from the locker room. Period. (Well, maybe not the players.) But that's not going to happen. Reporters want to get in there as soon as they can after the game while the players are still, uhm, raw after the spectacular victory / agonizing defeat. Reporters argue that in those few minutes the players say something other than sports cliches because they're still emotional, but I think that's somewhat of a rationalization.

Bottom line: women are in the locker room to stay, it's really not that big a deal, the "victim" here isn't even angry, and men will occasional act like, well, men in a locker room.