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AKG
05-31-2007, 02:24 PM
:) I'm an orlando native, and not to go all watzone on you, but my sources tell me this is a done deal. I'm pretty excited about this...I think it will only help in terms of recruiting and maintaining our status as the dominant college program.

feldspar
05-31-2007, 02:29 PM
Ewww, gross. JJ Redick coached by Greasy Billy?

juise
05-31-2007, 02:36 PM
ESPN reporting the offer. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2888555)

Ralph-Wiggum
05-31-2007, 02:51 PM
I hope he goes. It will make me less uncomfortable about cheering for the Gators when I start grad school there in the fall. :)

mr. synellinden
05-31-2007, 02:59 PM
His incoming recruits must be so excited. This is what is bad about college sports. They should be free to go elsewhere. What's more important to an 18 year old's decision where they want to play and, in essence, train for a potential professional career than a head coach?

Patrick Yates
05-31-2007, 03:03 PM
Take this to the bank,

That VCU coach will be their next head coach, inside a week. He is a rising genius who recruited most of the 04's, plus he has giant killer in his resume. After a bang up year he did not even sniff at any other openings. I think he knew what job he would get, be it sooner or later. Wish granted.

Unless the FL AD is retarded enough to hand a major program to Larry Shyiatt (sp?).

Patrick Yates

hurleyfor3
05-31-2007, 03:05 PM
See, he is a slimeball.

JasonEvans
05-31-2007, 03:45 PM
Somewhere, Patrick Patterson is smiling.

Does anyone doubt that Donovan lied out his @!#^@&^ when trying to convince Patterson (and others) to come to Florida?

"Trust me, Patrick. I'll tell you exactly what I told your good buddy Jai Lucas. No way am I leaving Florida. Not gonna happen. I am 100% here next year. The only reason I have not signed the extension yet is some minor legal holdups. Don't worry about it."

I agree that when a coach leaves, all recruits should be free to go too. I know it runs against why the NCAA pretends kids pick a school, but the reality is that losing a head coach is a huge deal to recruits.

And, maybe, if recruits were set free we'd see fewer coaches changing jobs because the potential impact on their old school would be so potentially severe.

-Jason "in fairness, Donovan has not accepted the offer... yet" Evans

DukieInKansas
05-31-2007, 03:51 PM
If he takes the Magic job, he could tell the incoming Gator class that he didn't lie - He will still be in Florida - just a different city and town.

freedevil
05-31-2007, 03:52 PM
I agree with all statements above. The VCU coach is someone I'd actually prefer to see coach Duke when K is done (is that blasphemy to just find Dawkins dull?). Every single one of those kids should be given the opportunity to go elsewhere. It's simply naive to think kids pick schools more so than they pick coaches.

Ralph-Wiggum
05-31-2007, 03:59 PM
What I've heard from a Gator friend is that Donovan is just using this whole Orlando thing to get money from Florida. Whether that's true or not, I guess we'll find out soon enough. Either way, it doesn't help his reputation for skeeziness.

CY_devil
05-31-2007, 04:00 PM
I wonder if Adam Allen, Jai Lucas, Nick Calathes, Chandler Parsons or Alex Tyus will ask out of their LOIs if this actually happens.

JasonEvans
05-31-2007, 04:42 PM
What I've heard from a Gator friend is that Donovan is just using this whole Orlando thing to get money from Florida. Whether that's true or not, I guess we'll find out soon enough. Either way, it doesn't help his reputation for skeeziness.

Nope, this is not a negotiating ploy. He is taking the job.

He pretty much could name his price at Florida. If he stayed, he would be, far and away, the highest paid coach in college ball. There is no need to say, "but Orlando is offering me a million more..." because Florida is already willing to pay him as much as they possibly can.

-Jason "he's gone, trust me on this one" Evans

juise
05-31-2007, 05:52 PM
What I've heard from a Gator friend is that Donovan is just using this whole Orlando thing to get money from Florida.

This sounds like wishful thinking.

dukemsu
05-31-2007, 06:10 PM
As Gizmo said at the end of Gremlins, "bye Billy".

Personally, I wish he'd stayed if only for the fact that the Gators were becoming the new team to hate-deflecting some of the venom from Duke.

I'd like to say he'll be back like Pitino and Calipari, but something tells me he may actually succeed at the NBA level.

dukemsu

Ralph-Wiggum
05-31-2007, 06:36 PM
This sounds like wishful thinking.

Apparently it was. ;)

dukemomLA
05-31-2007, 07:26 PM
Well, Billy D has shown his true colors and accepted an offer from the Magic.

Gee.....did ANYONE think differently if the offer was right?????

My prediction is he will go down in flames, but who knows.

captmojo
05-31-2007, 07:28 PM
5 years for 5.25, so long.

mgtr
05-31-2007, 08:16 PM
Well, we all agree that the new kids should be released from their commitments. If they are, and there is no guarantee that they will be, are there any we should go after?

sandinmyshoes
05-31-2007, 08:19 PM
Have their recruits signed LOIs? If they have not, then they will be free to go elsewhere.

Also, while Donovan has left the Gator program stronger than he found it, his replacement will have a hard act to follow. Donovan himself had a hard act to follow.

msdukie
05-31-2007, 08:32 PM
http://www.nba.com/magic/news/Magic_Name_Billy_Donovan_Head_-226994-800.html

Wonder if they can match their streak of selling out one non-conference home game like last year without Billy D.:D

Channing
05-31-2007, 09:05 PM
Maybe I am grasping here, but I see this hire as very good for JJ. Remember, Billy has had Lee Humphrey on his team for the last 4 years - he understands (I would assume) the benefit of an excellent spot up shooter to loosen the things inside (at UF - for Horford; at Orlando - for Dwight Howard).

Maybe its a stretch, and I know the NBA game is completely different from the College one, but it seems the same principles apply.

captmojo
06-01-2007, 09:56 AM
correction: 5.5 per annum

rsvman
06-01-2007, 10:47 AM
Ultimately it probably is good for JJ. He'll likely get a lot more playing time with Donovan at the helm.

jaimedun34
06-01-2007, 01:06 PM
Were the Magic really that appealing? IMO they'll need to sign some big free agents in order to make noise in the playoffs.

I hope the Magic can sign Billups, and maybe find some help in the post for Dwight Howard.

hurleyfor3
06-01-2007, 01:32 PM
Can someone give me the Cliffs Notes on how Florida fans feel? Do they even care that much?

I don't see how this hurts JJ. Donovan likes to use his bench and likes guys who can shoot.

Channing
06-01-2007, 02:53 PM
Just out of curiosity, what are the odds Billy D gave Patterson a heads up that this would be coming. It was general consensus PP was a UF lean before Lucas committed, and even more so afterward. Is it possible Billy D did the honorable thing, and knowing how much time PP had put into his decision and how much his future coach mattered to him, came clean so as not to leave the kid in a lurch?

dwater
06-01-2007, 03:08 PM
Just out of curiosity, what are the odds Billy D gave Patterson a heads up that this would be coming. It was general consensus PP was a UF lean before Lucas committed, and even more so afterward. Is it possible Billy D did the honorable thing, and knowing how much time PP had put into his decision and how much his future coach mattered to him, came clean so as not to leave the kid in a lurch?

I seriously doubt it.

FireOgilvie
06-01-2007, 03:12 PM
If Patterson goes to Florida does Donovan still go to the NBA?

rsvman
06-01-2007, 03:22 PM
If Patterson goes to Florida does Donovan still go to the NBA?

Prolly. [Napoleon Dynamite voice]What would YOU do in a situation like that? GOSH![/Napoleon Dynamite voice]

unctarheelhater
06-01-2007, 06:14 PM
JJ just blogged about the coaching change in Orlando on his website. www.redicklive.com Looks like he'll finally get the time he deserves out there now.

tombrady
06-01-2007, 09:22 PM
JJ just blogged about the coaching change in Orlando on his website. www.redicklive.com Looks like he'll finally get the time he deserves out there now.

what are you, JJ's agent's secretary or something?

greybeard
06-01-2007, 11:07 PM
Maybe I am grasping here, but I see this hire as very good for JJ. Remember, Billy has had Lee Humphrey on his team for the last 4 years - he understands (I would assume) the benefit of an excellent spot up shooter to loosen the things inside (at UF - for Horford; at Orlando - for Dwight Howard).

Maybe its a stretch, and I know the NBA game is completely different from the College one, but it seems the same principles apply.

Exactly my thinking. Look for JJ to shine, or at least get a real shot, which he oh so didn't under Hill. The analogy to Humphry, in my opinion, fits perfectly. Could be the resason for the move altogether. Certainly, Hill's failure to use JJ properly (even when he was in the other guys weren't getting him the looks he should get and had worked for) was reason enough to dump him. An outside shooter like him to free Howard and dare I say it Darko to work inside, Please. Hill had to go. And, Billy has proven he knows how to get the most out of an ace long shooter like JJ/Humphry. Good call, imo.

I don't know where Orlando picks, but look for a rangey athletic three to take Hill's place. I don't know a lot of names, Washington from VT would get people out of their seats. Can defend too, and give Nelson someone to run with. Fearless also, and we do remember him jumping the hell over Paulus, right.

I'd pay to watch them (actually, I'm getting carried away here, I'd never pay to see the pros, as in never).

gep
06-02-2007, 12:25 AM
... and give Nelson someone to run with.

You mention "run with". I started having visions of JJ running downcourt on a fast break, only to stop at the 3 point line to wait for the pass from the breakaway player. I hope we see that kind of stuff next year:)

JasonEvans
06-02-2007, 12:41 AM
I don't know where Orlando picks, but look for a rangey athletic three to take Hill's place. I don't know a lot of names, Washington from VT would get people out of their seats. Can defend too, and give Nelson someone to run with. Fearless also, and we do remember him jumping the hell over Paulus, right.


Orlando gave up their first rounder this year to Detroit in the Darko deal. It is pick #15 and will likely turn out to be a decent player considering the depth of this year's draft.

The Magic do not pick until the middle of the 2nd round. Among the guys they could be looking at with pick #39 are Rey Terry and Jared Dudley. Personally, I think Dudley could be a bit of a steal in the mid-2nd round. He can make an NBA roster and help a bit. He's a gamer.

-Jason "Donovan's PG, Taurean Green will also likely be avail in the mid-2nd round" Evans

TheGodfather
06-02-2007, 05:52 PM
I don't know where Orlando picks, but look for a rangey athletic three to take Hill's place.

Trevor Ariza is that athletic three you're looking for. He's an exciting leaper that should see even more time if Grant Hill doesn't return. They refused to let him be part of any trade talks even when bringing in a free agent before the deadline could have made a big difference in how the season finished.

Orlando has three picks in the second round (39, 44, and 54) and need to use them to find more size at the four and five. Right now they have Howard and Battie (who knows how much Tony has left in the tank). They still have to resign Darko. Even if they resign Darko, that's a shallow frontcourt. I'd like to see them get Glen "Big Baby" Davis with one of those second round picks.


Among the guys they could be looking at with pick #39 are Rey Terry and Jared Dudley

The last thing the Orlando needs is a Heel in a Magic uniform. This includes not signing Vince Carter as a free agent. They have done an outstanding job of building a team with players of quality characters (iow no Heels).

msdukie
06-03-2007, 10:52 PM
Looks like someone might be having second thoughts and is realizing that College > Not Basketball Association....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/basketball/ncaa/06/03/florida.grant.ap/index.html

More to come....

pkscoach
06-03-2007, 10:53 PM
Andy Katz (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2892334) says that Donovan wants to go back to Florida, but the Magic may not make it easy.

DukeWarhead
06-03-2007, 11:31 PM
What is it with all these "changed my mind" coaches?!!! Creighton, Winthrop, now Donovan??? I'm sorry, but if I were Florida, I'd say "sorry, you can't have it back." (Obviously, I see the wisdom in having Donovan as the head coach, but...) You have to wonder about the judgement and decisiveness of someone who agrees to one thing, holds a press conference, and then says "well, I'm not sure." No dice! I don't feel sorry for these "tormented" coaches. People make important life decisions everyday, and they don't have the option to go back on them.
If I were a UF fan, player, or Orlando fan, player I would now see Donovan as a wishy-washy-not-sure-what-he-wants-guy-with-spikey-hair.
Of course, if he keeps winning championships I'm sure anyone will put up with a little wishy-washiness.

duketaylor
06-04-2007, 07:12 AM
I can promise you I won't have any second thoughts;)

4decadedukie
06-04-2007, 07:52 AM
WTOP (DC's 24-hour all news station) reported this morning the Donovan will remain at Florida (for whatever that is worth).

JasonEvans
06-04-2007, 08:48 AM
He'll sya he realized he wanted to stay at Florida, but was it that or did he really just not want to coach in the NBA?

Regardless, he has pretty much guaranteed that he will never get an NBA offer again. What he has done to the Magic is really embarassing and not very professional.

-Jason "this puts even more pressure on Florida to have a good year next year-- all those freshmen better be studs from day one!" Evans

duketaylor
06-04-2007, 09:04 AM
Lots of Richmonders are breathing a huge sigh of relief this morning. Anthony Grant's a heckuva coach, so VCU will get him at least another year.

mr. synellinden
06-04-2007, 09:51 AM
This is quite a stunning reversal. I mean, how does a guy sign on the dotted line before really giving such a big decision enough careful thought to be sure that it is what he wants to do? Did he get pressure from the Magic to sign early? And what about UF now - do they accept him back with open arms? And what about Grant? What would have happened if UF had already offered him the job. Would they have the integrity to say to Donovan - sorry pal, we have an outstanding offer which we intend to honor if it is accepted?

Really an unbelievable situation.

When I heard the news this morning while getting ready for work, all I could of was Judge Schmales ... "Oh Billy Billy Billy ..."

Atlanta Duke
06-04-2007, 10:03 AM
He'll sya he realized he wanted to stay at Florida, but was it that or did he really just not want to coach in the NBA?

Regardless, he has pretty much guaranteed that he will never get an NBA offer again. What he has done to the Magic is really embarassing and not very professional.

-Jason "this puts even more pressure on Florida to have a good year next year-- all those freshmen better be studs from day one!" Evans

So you have just won the last 2 national championships and returned to Gainesville after stating you have recognized U of F is your true love even though the NBA was going to pay you a lot more?

Somehow I think the pressure on Donovan will be tolerable:)

fitimi1
06-04-2007, 10:04 AM
Ah, the Curse of Shaq rears its ugly head once again. Just another example of why we affectionately refer to them as the "Tragic."

freedevil
06-04-2007, 11:30 AM
I'll be honest, I don't fault Donovan for wanting to be back at Florida. Perhaps it took actually having the title of NBA coach for him to realize he can't bring in McD's All-Americans or stud recruits every year. He's basically stuck with the same people over and over, and rebuilding takes time and the criticism is heavy (more so than it would be in an institution dominated by football).

HOWEVER, what makes this all so gross to me is this: he pimped himself out to Kentucky (granted he didn't want to pull a Saban and deny any interest if he did have some) during the NCAA tourney, he let the rumors swirl about the Grizzlies, and its obvious he wanted NBA jobs as he refused to sign an enormous deal with Florida. I hope Orlando makes Billy pay a sizeable buy-out and that UF takes him back but on the condition that Billy get the same contract they originally offered and that UF will not pay any of his buy-out from Orlando.

_Gary
06-04-2007, 05:09 PM
I just don't get why most of the media seem to be bending over backwards to stroke this guy and forgive him so easily. Just look at the Katz piece at ESPN.com to see what I'm talking about. No one is holding him accountable for what he's done over the last 72 hours to both Orlando and UF. I see this as more bias toward the Gators, which have now become the media darlings. Not that it could or would have ever happened, but I guarantee you that if this had been Coach K he would be getting crucified right now.

And I'm sick of hearing all these guys comparing Donovan to Coach K. What a joke!!!

captmojo
06-04-2007, 05:43 PM
They should at least be allowed to take his furniture.

cspan37421
06-04-2007, 05:46 PM
And I'm sick of hearing all these guys comparing Donovan to Coach K. What a joke!!!

he may not have the longevity but the comparison is no joke. Who has won 2 National Championships in a row since John Wooden? Only Coach K and Billy Donovan. K has three total (as does Knight), Donovan 2, but Billy D has a lot fewer years experience. He's not K's equal but he's off to a great start.

No he hasn't proven himself to be better in the long run, but his run is far from over. Of course he probably should stop his public flirting with the NBA or his best days (recruiting wise at least) will be behind him.

Atlanta Duke
06-04-2007, 06:08 PM
And I'm sick of hearing all these guys comparing Donovan to Coach K. What a joke!!!

Sort of like Carolina fans were sick of hearing all these guys comparing K to Dean in 1992?

Tom B.
06-04-2007, 06:21 PM
He may not have the longevity but the comparison is no joke. Who has won 2 National Championships in a row since John Wooden? Only Coach K and Billy Donovan. K has three total (as does Knight), Donovan 2, but Billy D has a lot fewer years experience. He's not K's equal but he's off to a great start.

Very true.

Both Donovan and K were about the same age when they got their first head coaching jobs (K was 28 and Donovan was 29).

Donovan is now 42 years old and has been a head coach for 13 years (11 at Florida). He has 296 wins, three Final Fours and two National Championships.

Through K's first 13 years as a head coach, he had 247 wins, two Final Fours and no National Championships. Duke didn't win its back-to-back titles until K was 45 years old and had been a head coach for 17 years (12 at Duke).

So by most objective metrics, Donovan is actually more successful at this stage in his career than K was at the same stage.

Of course, past performance is no guarantee of future results....

_Gary
06-04-2007, 07:21 PM
Sort of like Carolina fans were sick of hearing all these guys comparing K to Dean in 1992?

Not quite the same. At that point, Coach K had led teams to the Final Four 6 out of 7 years in a row. When Donovan does that, then we can compare them. Geesh, I guess everyone else here has fallen prey to the Donovan love nip. :rolleyes:

Gary

throatybeard
06-04-2007, 08:09 PM
Can somebody educate me as to how you get out of a contract you've already signed? Plus, he's damaged them by costing them time in their search if he wasn't going to take it.

feldspar
06-04-2007, 09:13 PM
Not quite the same. At that point, Coach K had led teams to the Final Four 6 out of 7 years in a row. When Donovan does that, then we can compare them. Geesh, I guess everyone else here has fallen prey to the Donovan love nip. :rolleyes:

Gary

Come on, Gary. It's not a love nip, it's reality. Donovan is, without question, the hottest, most successful young coach since Coach K after the back-to-back championships. Sure, there's not 7 in 9, but the comparison is still there. In my opinion, Florida's back-to-back is more impressive than Duke's in 91/92 for several reasons, and Donovan deserves the praise he's been getting and the attention he gets from the media. Perhaps not all of the ego stroking, but as I said he certainly is the hottest thing out there.

To deny it only exposes homerism.

Lulu
06-04-2007, 09:48 PM
All I know is that, for the duration of Donovan's tenure at Florida, any recruit who signs with them and later changes his mind should be granted a release without question.

Am I really the first person to mention this? So much of a coach's attention goes into getting 17 and 18 year-olds to sign LOIs... not to mention the pressure of all these early verbals now. It's never really reflected well on the coaches who have waffled like this in the past, but in this age when they're out there pushing younger and younger kids to commit (with perhaps questionable tactics at times?) there's just something extra special about this whole situation.

For that matter, should any FL recruit change their mind in the future, I suppose the fans there should also gracefully wave goodbye... we'll see.

Who's responsible for the public spectacle that verbals have become anyway? Are the colleges and coaches involved in the "events", or is it a circus stirred up by others? I'm not a fan of verbals and always wondered if the giant show they've become was just a way to add that much more pressure on the recruits.

Atlanta Duke
06-04-2007, 09:53 PM
Not quite the same. At that point, Coach K had led teams to the Final Four 6 out of 7 years in a row. When Donovan does that, then we can compare them. Geesh, I guess everyone else here has fallen prey to the Donovan love nip. :rolleyes:

Gary

My point was Dean had been on top for 25 years but was going through a relatively dry spell when K was at his early peak and won the back to back championships in 1992 - at that point K was the young gun and the Carolina fans did not want to hear any unfavorable comparisons between K and Deano.

And if winning back to back NCs does not get you a "love nip" I do not know what should.

dukeblue33
06-04-2007, 11:22 PM
coach K would have never gotten himself into a debacle like this. seriously i think it's embarassing. orlando really is the victim here. forget all of this nonsense about poor bd having to make that decision in such a short time. he's been talking about wanting to go to the nba for a while or that he's open to it so he can focus on bball all year, he let those rumors about the grizzlies swarm and then he signs with the magic and wants out?! i would not want to be playing for this guy. and i hope that the kids he starts recruiting in the future actually take his flip-flopping into consideration.

gep
06-04-2007, 11:30 PM
Hi... I don't know if I'm in the minority, but I never really cared for Billy D. But now, it's sealed. Somehow, in my naive mind, I can somewhat understand the Creighton and Winthrop coaches (and B.Cremmins) changing their minds in a couple of days. Maybe it's because it's from one college to another, and it's mostly about challenges, and not money... at least, not the kind that Coach K and Billy D were offered. So, when Billy D took the offer from the Magic, he said a lot of things about challenges, but I thought I've read elsewhere that someone (within Billy D's circle) said that that kind of money was hard to ignore... yep, money. So, now Billy D "implies" (at least to me), that the UF money is good enough, and he wants to go back to his comfort zone. As another poster mentioned, maybe the reality set in when they said "coach of the NBA Magic". In any case, someone in such an influential position (recruits) changing his mind like that just doesn't cut it for me... I'm real glad Coach K stayed:)

juise
06-04-2007, 11:57 PM
I'm real glad Coach K stayed:)

"Duke is Duke." ;)

_Gary
06-05-2007, 06:50 AM
I'm not saying Donovan isn't the hottest thing in college coaching right now. I'm not saying he isn't a great coach. The intent of my original post wasn't even about how I dislike the comparisons, at this early point in his career, with Coach K. My main point was that almost no one in the media is holding this guy accountable for what he's done to UF, the Magic, his good friend at VCU, etc. Everyone just seems to be blinded by love for him and willing to give him a pass, and I'm not buying it. The guy is a serious ego-maniac. His "love" for UF is only about attaining to some untouchable legacy in the future. Billy D is all about Billy D. And I don't appreciate the way he screwed the Orlando Magic. People should be calling him on this, not extending a sympathetic hand.

Gary

mgtr
06-05-2007, 10:46 PM
I agree. I take nothing away from Billy D's coaching ability, but his character is really in question. Just like Jimmy V -- everybody raves about him, he was a great coach -- but, he promised those kids at Iona that he would stay until they graduated right before he signed the NC State contract. Billy D may not be another Bobby C -- he may be another Larry Brown. LB is a trerrific coach, but his loyalty score is about -750.
There is a fundamental point here -- much like the one and done case -- would you rather have a flash in the pan for a year or two (do you really believe Billy D would have honored his whole contract with the Magic) or a solid steady coach for the duration? Tough call, has a lot to do with character. Thank God we have Coach K!!!

gep
06-05-2007, 11:14 PM
There is a fundamental point here -- much like the one and done case -- would you rather have a flash in the pan for a year or two (do you really believe Billy D would have honored his whole contract with the Magic) or a solid steady coach for the duration? Tough call, has a lot to do with character. Thank God we have Coach K!!!

I also agree with what you say. Interesting thought about Billy D honoring his whole contract with the Magic. One, if he flames out, he's probably outta there... like "fired". Second, if he's wildly successful (nba championship), he's getting offers from other nba teams... and obviously "more money". As another poster said, it's all about Billy D.

Another note... I don't think there's much of a question of whether you take the "solid steady coach for the duration" over the "flash in the pan for a year or two" coach... I think it has ALL to do with character. We all like to win, but there's gotta be a "big, thick, solid" line between solid and questionable character.

Chicago 1995
06-06-2007, 09:04 AM
I'm not saying Donovan isn't the hottest thing in college coaching right now. I'm not saying he isn't a great coach. The intent of my original post wasn't even about how I dislike the comparisons, at this early point in his career, with Coach K. My main point was that almost no one in the media is holding this guy accountable for what he's done to UF, the Magic, his good friend at VCU, etc. Everyone just seems to be blinded by love for him and willing to give him a pass, and I'm not buying it. The guy is a serious ego-maniac. His "love" for UF is only about attaining to some untouchable legacy in the future. Billy D is all about Billy D. And I don't appreciate the way he screwed the Orlando Magic. People should be calling him on this, not extending a sympathetic hand.

Gary

What are we holding him accountable for?

What did he do to UF? Made Jeremy Foley fly to Richmond for an interview that didn't happen with Anthony Grant. Wow. It's not like Florida hasn't had an idea for the last year that Donovan might leave after this season for the NBA.

What did Donovan do to Grant? Kept him from bolting there after a year. Buying out of his contract. Breaking his word -- which seems to bug people when Donovan does it -- to his team and his recruits. Grant's going to have to go back to VCU, and as good a coach as he is, there will be other opportunities. All that's happened to Grant is that it's delayed him bolting VCU for a better deal and it's made clear to VCU and Grant's recruits what they should have known -- that Grant's eyes are on a bigger prize.

What's Donovan done to the Magic? Clearly the Magic are the most "damaged" party here -- although they aren't that damaged. Donovan cost them three days in their coaching search. Three days. It looks like they are going to get their second choice -- Stan Van Gundy -- if they can reach terms with the Heat to let Stan out of his contract. If they can't do that, Donovan's not cost them anything in the coaching search. Sure, there's damage to the franchise's reputation by being spurned in this way, and the expectations of the fan base, but that's part of the enterprise, and if they are successful next year, that's all forgotten anyway.

Donovan didn't screw them. He just turned them down. They're going to get their second choice, and there's a large body of evidence that their second choice is a better bet to succeed in Orlando than is Billy.

As much as Gary doesn't get why people seem to be giving Donovan a free pass, I don't get the animosity here in particular. Unless you are a Magic fan, it's not like what Donovan did harmed you in any way. Donovan changed his mind, and he did it in a very timely manner. It's not perfect, and certainly he made a mistake, but he's a human being, and people make mistakes and change their minds all the time. Billy, thanks to his success, just made his mistake in a much more public forum. It's not that big a deal to me, and I don't see why -- where Donovan did everything he could to minimize the damage of having made the mistake he did -- people want to villify him so.

A couple of other points I've seen in the thread. If anything, this is going to help him in recruiting, not hurt him. If the conditions about him not coaching in the NBA for five years are true, there are at least two recruiting classes that he can use that contract to rebut negative recruiting that he's not going to be at UF for the duration. He's also going to be able to spin this in the same way that K has spun his turning down the Lakers.

I'd also argue that three title game appearances and two titles, along with more wins over his first 12 years is, at worst, a wash with K's record over his first 12. No, he hasn't been to 6 Final Fours in 7 years, but no one has a record like that over the last 15 years. In the same way people note that the game and the landscape of the tourney has changed when comparing Wooden and K, the same point can be made comparing K and Billy. Whether we like it or not, the comparison is very fair, and Billy's built a heck of a record -- one I think we'd all be happy to have over the next 12 years.

JasonEvans
06-06-2007, 09:18 AM
Should Donovan or the Magic offer full refunds to folks who purchased Magic season tickets over the past few days?

It is an ESPN Insider article, so most folks will not be able to read it, but Jay Bilas just ripped Billy D for this. I've read several other columns that also are quite critical of Donovan. This article (http://www.gatorsports.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070605/GATORS02/70605007/Does_Donovan_s_image_take_a_hit_) has some of Jay's comments in it.

Also worth noting that many in the media are refuing to give Billy a free pass on the notion that he was rushed into a decision by the Magic. Everyone knows the timeline was more like a week. The idea that the Magic gave Billy a take-it-or-leave-it-right-now ultimatum is just not true. The fact that Billy is trying to save face with that argument shows that he knows he is wrong and he is not above just plain lying and making stuff up.

I also have it on good authority that Donovan flat out lied to recruits about his interest in the NBA. He clearly cannot be trusted to tell you anything but what is best for Billy D.

-Jason "here's to hoping the Gators suck next year" Evans

freedevil
06-06-2007, 09:41 AM
Jason, I agree. However, I think the timeline was more like a few months than a week. If his excuse is that he backed out because he really loved UF, why wasn't he thinking about that when rumors were swirling that he wanted the Heat job, months earlier?

I think it takes some cojones to switch positions like he did, but he looks like a complete fool. I will find it hard to believe any evidence that suggests otherwise, his "I was rushed into this" excuse included.

greybeard
06-06-2007, 11:36 AM
I'm not sure what NBA coaches do, but I know what the league itself does, and it's 99 percent about show biz. Stern has built a grand stage, and boy what a product. Everybody's getting rich, and selling stuff, and, oh, there is some basketball to be played.

This incident involving Billy is just part of the Show, another story to be told. Does anybody think that they know whether the Magic will be better if Billy or Stan or whomever is their coach? That seems to me is a sports issue, and the answer to that one is obvious, who knows? It really don't matter.

Unless you are talking about a very rarified group of guys, and set your parameters of making a difference short of winning the whole thing, I don't think who the coach is matters all that much. Approach to the game, yes.

But, take Larry Brown, Phil Jackson, Nellie, and maybe the guy from Phoenix out of the picture, you chose a guy who can put an entertaining show on the floor and go with it. Let's stop all the fuss about nothing.

Kfanarmy
06-06-2007, 11:39 AM
There is a clear and purposeful misrepresentation in here:
Donovan didn't screw them. He just turned them down. They're going to get their second choice, and there's a large body of evidence that their second choice is a better bet to succeed in Orlando than is Billy.
designed to support your point, but in fact he didn't "turn them down," he accepted, signed a contract, bought a tie, did the press announcement...then went home and was emotionally swayed by friends at UF...whether it is immaturity, dishonesty, or stupidity, Billy D embarrassed the MAGIC, wasted time and resources at Florida and prompted two recruits to consider leaving (they may anyway- I would), and played with Coach Grant whom he knew Florida would go to first....They aren't positives, but I don't think any of these a huge problems in the long term. Still he didn't just turn them down and the misrepresentation takes away from your argument.

greybeard
06-06-2007, 12:09 PM
I think that Billy would not have helped this team reach its potential nearly as well as say Stan will. So, a part from embarassing the Magic (can a franchise feel embarassed?), and elevating the profile of a coach whose name I've never before been aware I ever heard mentioned, and causing some momentary difficulty to a University for whom he has made millions and won back to back national championships, we are giving Billy a hard time because?

Oh, the recruits. I'd have to think that it is the business of recruiting, and perhaps his current difficulty with it, that impelled Billy to make the wrong choice in the first place. I mean, he lost that guy that everyone was waiting upon to whom, Kentucky? We're talking about Kentucky here. Not Duke. Or UNC. To Kentucky. The one place fast Billy never used to lose, and he lost. If he can get over that, the embarassment of the flip-flop will be a piece of cake.

Patrick Yates
06-06-2007, 12:33 PM
Billy D. is a genius.

If his original intention was to stay at FL and Max out his deal, he has succeeded.

Stay with me on this, cause this is beyond Second gunman on the grassy knoll stuff.

Billy has sturned down KY. From a negotiating standpoint, where is his leverage as far as college jobs? Nowhere.

Of the Marquee Programs in college hoops, most are locked up for the forseeable future. Duke and UNC are set for approximately the next decade, and will hire in-house at any rate. KY is set for a while, possibly for decades. UCLA has a lifetime coach as well. Kansas and IU are a little iffier, but they could both be set for the next 5-10 years also.

Where else can he go? He is from the north east, but there are no real powers up there, and few, if any, progams with the assets and the willingness to entice him.

What happend was, BD tried to use KY to leverage a higher price out of FL. It worked, but not as much as BD would've liked. Cause, once KY hired BG, there were no real college jobs that BD was likely to leave for. So, to make his college coach unpoachable, FL comes in with arround 2-4 mill per year.

If you are BD, you know 2 things to be certain

1: FL lowballed you.
2: Every, and I do mean every single opposing coach will be telling recruits that you are gone for the pros at the next opportunity. Ergo, why go there, he might not be there next year.

If you are BD, how do you rectify this? An enigma wrappend in a conundrum indeed.

Here is where it gets, well, wierd.

Billy "accepts" the NBA gig, confirming all of the suspicians regarding his intentions. Every media outlet says that Billy is the guy who can succeed at the pro level. (Rising HS recruits watching begin to think it is a shame that they will not be coached by such a god among men)

He knows that FL will turn to his former asst, the VCU Coach, who is black, in his absence. He knows how well this will sit with some (by no means all, or even a large percentage) of the FL powerful booster base. Ask Chris Leak how open minded some of those fans are.

BD goes to Orlando, with a shifty mien about him. (watch the press confrence if you can, look at his eyes).

Now it gets good. One of said boosters, fearful that FL will hire a black guy, calls Billy and says, "what will it take to keep you?" Billy throws out a number that is less, but not by much, than the Contract he signed with Orlando. Gratefull, the shadowy booster says deal. Billy then weasels out of his Pro Deal.

Surprise, surprise, Orlando includes a clause stating that Billy cannot jump to the pros for 5 years. Oh No! Poor Billy!

Billy agrees, full of contrition and sorrow.

Now for reality. Billy will sign a deal that absolutely dwarfs any other deal in College sports. Billy tells recruits he will be there. Opposing coaches can say nothing, because Billy CAN"T legally leave for the pros, and what other college will he leave for after turning down KY. In five years, BD will say how much he loves FL, and his family will have the kind of roots you cannot pull up. Unless it was for orlando, the one team that will not hire him. So he is going nowhere.

Billy has just engineered a massive raise (above what he was going to get anyway), the enduring love of all FL alums and boosters, and he has answered the biggest knock by opposing recruiters.

Billy is practically a Dark Lord of the Sith for pulling off these machiavellian machinations.

Behold. A new college superpower is truly born.

Patrick Yates

4xduke
06-06-2007, 01:42 PM
Having lived through the last two years as a Duke fan in Gainesville, and hearing about the "greatest frontcourt in the history of college basketball" on the radio game broadcasts, "the greatest team in the history of college basketball" on the local sportscasts, along with several other hyperbolic statements about the Florida program, and now hearing Billy being place among the pantheon of truly great college coaches, I want to reiterate what someone said earlier in this thread (I think) - just look at his record before Shyatt came to his staff and after. Look also at the style of play both before and after Shyatt's arrival. Also notice what style Grant uses at VCU - it is the old Billy ball style that may get you a win or two in the tournament, and infrequently a nice long run in the tournament, but it is not a style that will be consistently great. Billy ball basically disappeared from Florida once Shyatt came to town, and it was replaced with solid defense with an occasional foray into the press (quickly abandoned when it wasn't effective). It's hard to see on TV coverage, but in person you also notice that Billy always gets instructions from Shyatt during timeouts before he talks to the team (many coaches talk to assistants frist, but here Shyatt talks, Billy listens and then goes to the huddle). During play, Billy stands in front of the bench posturing for all to see. There isn't much else going on as a coach. He is clearly a great recruiter, probably treading closely all the time to the lines not to be crossed (or even crossing them some would say), but as a coach - not much there there.

In a perverse sort of way, the person hurt the most by Billy's flip-flop could be Shyatt, who could have parlayed (and still may even as an asst coach at UF) a successful stint as Billy's Magic assistant into a pro job (seemed clear from his Clemson experience he could coach, but couldn't really recruit that well) and his own multi-million dollar professional coaching contract.

As others who live in Maryland have lamented about their own state of affairs - it's hard to be in Gainesville right now.

Stray Gator
06-06-2007, 02:14 PM
...He knows that FL will turn to his former asst, the VCU Coach, who is black, in his absence. He knows how well this will sit with some (by no means all, or even a large percentage) of the FL powerful booster base. Ask Chris Leak how open minded some of those fans are. ...

Patrick Yates

*********************

Without commenting on how credible the rest of your theory may be, I believe this comment is baseless and unwarranted. I am an alum of both Duke and Florida, and an avid fan of both the Blue Devils and the Gators. I have season tickets to Duke men's basketball and to Gator football, and have had the good fortune of being in attendance at Duke's three basketball national championships, and at Florida's two football and two basketball national championships. I mention all this to provide some context for my perspective--i.e., that I am a longtime fan of both schools, and that I have many friends and acquaintances among both groups of fans, including some of the "powerful boosters."

I can say without hesitation or eqivocation that I am not aware of any Florida fans who were opposed to hiring Grant as Donovan's successor for any reason, much less because of any racial animus. To the contrary, if you'll take a few minutes to visit the most popular Gator bulletin boards (like the Virtual Swamp and Gator Country) and peruse the posts from last week, I think you'll find that Gator fans were uniformly enthusiastic about the prospect of Grant coming back to UF, where he was Donovan's assistant and chief recruiter for more than a decade.

Your insinuation that Chris Leak was the object of derision from Florida fans because of his race is equally unfounded. Chris heard a smattering of boos from the crowd on one occasion in one game early in the season, when he came back on the field to replace the uber-popular freshman Tim Tebow after a series in which Chris had performed rather poorly and Tebow had been subbed in and sparked the offense. I can recall an almost identical incident that occurred in Cameron, which has likewise been overblown by some rival fans and media commentators who shamelessly exploit any pretext to bash Duke. Do you think it would be "fair play" for Gator fans to infer that we Duke fans are racists by suggesting to others that they should "[a]sk Jeff Capel how open minded some of those [Duke] fans are"?

Chicago 1995
06-07-2007, 08:57 AM
There is a clear and purposeful misrepresentation in here:
designed to support your point, but in fact he didn't "turn them down," he accepted, signed a contract, bought a tie, did the press announcement...then went home and was emotionally swayed by friends at UF...whether it is immaturity, dishonesty, or stupidity, Billy D embarrassed the MAGIC, wasted time and resources at Florida and prompted two recruits to consider leaving (they may anyway- I would), and played with Coach Grant whom he knew Florida would go to first....They aren't positives, but I don't think any of these a huge problems in the long term. Still he didn't just turn them down and the misrepresentation takes away from your argument.

You're right. He accepted and changed his mind.

I think it's more akin to just rejecting them because he did so promptly. That being said, I should have been more clear about that.

As for the rest of your response, it's not necessarily immaturity, stupidity or dishonesty. He may have just made a mistake, something we all do. To his credit, he let the Magic know very quickly that he'd made a mistake to try to minimize the damage to the team.

As for him embarrassing the Magic, I'm not really all that concerned about that. There's a long list of embarassments the Magic have visited on themselves that are far worse and far more relevant to the state of the franchise than Billy D changing his mind.

As for him playing Coach Grant, I don't think that's a fair statement at all. Playing implies some intent -- which is something all of these criticisms are ripe with. Do you really think Billy played someone he's as close to as Grant? And didn't Grant play VCU and his recruits if he was willing to run off to UF as quickly as he was going to? Where's the outrage there?

Again, I don't understand the outrage here, unless you are a dyed in the wool Magic fan. Donovan changed his mind, and he let the Magic know immediately. The Magic had three whole days where they thought Donovan was their coach. Three days. It wasn't even enough time to have them miss out on Plan B.

Indoor66
06-07-2007, 11:31 AM
I guess there is no sanctity in contracts or, even, a person's word. This is a heck of a statement about the human race - or, maybe it is a reflection of immaturity and narcissism.

Chicago 1995
06-07-2007, 12:09 PM
I guess there is no sanctity in contracts or, even, a person's word. This is a heck of a statement about the human race - or, maybe it is a reflection of immaturity and narcissism.

In my experience, there is no sanctity in contracts. They're broken every single day. More to the point, especially with coaching contracts, it's a contract that I think the expectation isn't that it will be completed, but instead is a way of deliniating the rights and obligations of each party so that a valuation can be made when the contract is terminated prior to its expiration.

As for a person's word, I think people are overdramatizing what happened here. Donovan made a mistake. It happens, and it happens to all of us at different points in time.

Wasn't it better for both parties that Donovan admitted his mistake, thereby allowing the Magic to get someone who really wanted the job? Or should he have stayed and coached for the sake of his word?

throatybeard
06-07-2007, 06:39 PM
As for a person's word, I think people are overdramatizing what happened here.

Absolutely.

I really don't care what Donovan does.

I think what bother me though, is that had Mike Krzyzewski done the exact same thing with the Lakers 3 years ago, he would have been out and out crucified in the media. Donovan is mostly skating on this, and I guess that's fine. I'm bothered with a hypothetical. That's pretty silly.

Lulu
06-07-2007, 11:23 PM
um... can anyone tell me why florida would reward billy with possibly the largest contract/salary ever awarded to a college basketball coach? $3.5mil/year for 6 years plus options

...unless this huge contract was part of the discussion that led Billy to revert on his decision, in which case the "unprofessionalism" reaches new highs.

Indoor66
06-08-2007, 07:07 AM
That argument would also raise a question of tortuous interference with a contract by U of F. I would hope that this did not happen.