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dukeballboy88
08-04-2010, 10:44 PM
Over the years of watching Duke basketball, ive noticed K doesnt really go more than 7 deep. Im looking at this years roster and I see a team that could go 10 deep. This has to be K's deepest team he has ever had. He has some heavy artillery coming off the bench this year and I am hoping he will use all of it. Its gonna be hard to keep people happy but if anyone can do it K can.

Does anyone think this is K's deepest team

COYS
08-04-2010, 11:12 PM
Over the years of watching Duke basketball, ive noticed K doesnt really go more than 7 deep. Im looking at this years roster and I see a team that could go 10 deep. This has to be K's deepest team he has ever had. He has some heavy artillery coming off the bench this year and I am hoping he will use all of it. Its gonna be hard to keep people happy but if anyone can do it K can.

Does anyone think this is K's deepest team

This has probably been covered sufficiently in another thread but k has shown that he is willing to use his depth when he has it. The 2008 team had 9 contributors in Paulus, Scheyer, Thomas, Henderson, Nelson, Singler, Smith, and Zoubs when healthy plus King, who probably would have played more if not for some of his other issues.

Others have brought up the deep and talented teams at the end of the 20th century including the 97 and 98 squads. I think it remains to be seen how much of an impact all of te players will make next year, but I do think we will be pretty deep with the plumlees, Irving, Smith, Singler, Curry, Dawkins, and Kelly all likely to get consistent minutes. I think Hairston is a wildcard to receive some more minutes. Whether this will constitute k's deepest team depends on how much Kelly, dawkins, and Curry contribute off the bench. Plus, hairston would need to force himself onto the court as well.

DevilDan
08-04-2010, 11:51 PM
This has probably been covered sufficiently in another thread but k has shown that he is willing to use his depth when he has it. The 2008 team had 9 contributors in Paulus, Scheyer, Thomas, Henderson, Nelson, Singler, Smith, and Zoubs when healthy plus King, who probably would have played more if not for some of his other issues.

Others have brought up the deep and talented teams at the end of the 20th century including the 97 and 98 squads. I think it remains to be seen how much of an impact all of te players will make next year, but I do think we will be pretty deep with the plumlees, Irving, Smith, Singler, Curry, Dawkins, and Kelly all likely to get consistent minutes. I think Hairston is a wildcard to receive some more minutes. Whether this will constitute k's deepest team depends on how much Kelly, dawkins, and Curry contribute off the bench. Plus, hairston would need to force himself onto the court as well.


I think we can make an early projection that this COULD be a really deep DUKE team ... but that is kinda dependent on what kind of game Miles and Mason bring in November. It looks as though (in summer league) MP1 is gearing up to be "the" replacement for Zoubek, what with the bulking up, the dynamics, and even the beard.

Mason, I'm just not sure about. Does his have the defensive instincts to step it up a level from last year (when he didn't, save for some spectacular "help" blocks)? Can he develop more offensive moves (than just Dunking) that lead to getting the ball into the hoop? With his hops, he should by now be getting off a reliable 2-5 foot bank shot from either side of the rim, and scoring easy baskets. I hope he feels the heat from Ryan, who from others' comments, is now ready to play some BASKETBALL this year. And then there's Josh, who will be working hard for minutes in the frontcourt.

With the other four starting positions (Miles/Kyle/Nolan/Kyrie) falling into place, a Mason-Ryan 1-2 punch at the "4" could be the link that pushes this team from damn good to one of the elite in the country. Our perimeter game looks to be one of the best we've ever had. Again, Kyle and Nolan are among the nation's top dozen players. One or two from the group of Seth/Andre/Tyler are going to step it up on given nights and give us some added punch.

Hell, I hope they all emerge, and make this thread a reality ! GO DUKE !

4decadedukie
08-05-2010, 06:01 AM
Back court depth is outstanding, however, up front our depth MAY be somewhat less. I suspect to see K play a variety of teams/player-mixes -- especially early in the season -- some emphasizing speed, ball handling, DEFENSE and interior shooting, and others focused on the parameter and on DEFENSE. By the time the ACC season commences, however, much of this will have solidified. The ability to have excellent, experienced and rested player available in critical second halfs is a real advantage, as is depth to overcome potential injuries, and to project multiple offensive and defensive alignments (thereby really complicating the opponents' strategies).

gumbomoop
08-05-2010, 06:14 AM
.... pushes this team from damn good to one of the elite in the country.

I generally agree with your entire post, but have excerpted just this part to disagree a little, or at least comment to clarify further.

If "damn good" refers to preseason/on paper, and "elite" refers to end-season/Final 4, fair enough. But otherwise, Duke is near-certain to be one of the few elite teams in '10-'11, both in terms of depth and athleticism. Indeed, Duke may well go from being perceived in '09-'10 as "remarkably unathletic" to very athletic. Kyrie's game will be so eye-catching that his presence alone will change perceptions. Second, his and Nolan's alley-oopers to the MPs [and to each other, seriously] will provide wow-highlights every game. Seth will be, to unattentive fans, a "where'd he come from" newcomer. And Kyle's all-around excellence will get him plenty of grudging admiration.

Going into '10-'11, therefore, Duke is the most likely team to achieve elite status. The competitors for preseason #1 - MichSt and Purdue - are certainly solid and experienced, but not as athletic as Duke promises to be. MichSt down a notch in talent-experience because of loss of Allen. No team in the country matches Duke in 8-10-man talent-experience-depth. Other good teams on paper, sure, including Texas, 'Nova, 'Cuse, definitely OhioSt. UK has great young talent, but loss of Dodson, even if addition by subtraction, takes away their only proven 3-bomber, and UK has absolutely no proven experience. UNC has great young talent, too, but there's just no telling how quickly they'll get beyond '09-'10 issues, both psychological and substantive. Perhaps things will go swimmingly for the Heels; but one could hardly predict that with utmost confidence.

Duke is the only team that has a reasonable chance to become a great, great team. No guarantees. Even great teams don't always win NC. But with 2 preseason senior All-Americans, a preseason top 3 frosh [and easily top-1 in exciting moves], plenty of depth, defending champs, not to mention K - well, Duke-haters will have an ample target toward which to fulminate and froth.

flyingdutchdevil
08-05-2010, 06:15 AM
My question is how many players will get 15+ minutes during ACC play?

Guaranteed:
-Ndotsmitty
-Singler
-Brother Plumlee 1
-Brother Plumlee 2
-Irving
-Curry

<90% likely:
-Kelly (3.5 min in 2010 starting with Clemson on 1/3)

<80% likely:
-Dawkins (9.5 min in 2010 starting with Clemson on 1/3)

<25% likely:
-Hairston

<10% likely:
-Thornton

It this scenario happens, that means that Coach K will most likely have a rotation of 8 (possibly 9) by the time ACC play comes around.

There have to teams deeper than 8 players in the past, right?

superdave
08-05-2010, 08:41 AM
The 2001 title team bought Dunleavy off the bench, right?

The 1992 team brought Chief, Meek, Clark off the bench.

The 1991 team brought McCaffrey (!), either Davis/Koubek and Palmer/Buckley off the bench.

1999 had Nate, Burgess, Maggette off the bench - that gets my vote for deepest.

JDev
08-05-2010, 09:25 AM
The 2001 title team bought Dunleavy off the bench, right?



In 2001 Dunleavy started all 39 games. The initial starting line-up was Williams-James-Dunleavy-Battier-Boozer, with Duhon off the bench. When Boozer got hurt K changed the line-up to start to Williams-Duhon-Dunleavy-Battier-Sanders, to get more overal quickness on the floor. The 2001 team was actually not very deep for a championship team. They had six guys who played more than 800 minutes on the year, and after that the next closest guy had less than half of that. They won because those top six were so unbelievably good.

As far as next year's team, they do have quality depth. But when ACC play rolls around you can rest assured that there will be a clear top eight who get the vast majority of minutes: Smith, Singler, Irving, Plumlee, Plumlee, Curry, Dawkins, and Kelly. That group will do the heavy lifting for Duke as the season progresses. Those eight guys will have significantly more minutes than the ninth and tenth guys.

CDu
08-05-2010, 09:28 AM
The 1998 team was incredibly deep: Wojo, Langdon, Battier, McLeod, Brand, Avery, Chappell, Carrawell, Burgess, Domzalski, Price/James. That's 11 guys who could all have started and contribute significantly to a major D-1 that season (in fact, all of them at some point were regular 20+ mpg players on the Duke team during their careers). That might be the deepest team we've ever fielded.

In terms of the most number of players with top-tier talent, the 1991-1992 teams, the 1999 team, and the 2001 team might have something to say about that (and that's just off the top of my head). Though the 1999 and 2001 teams were not actually all that deep. They were just really really good through at least 6-7 guys (top-end depth), as opposed to really solid/good through 10-11 guys.

That being said, it's a potentially very deep and talented team. It's just that some guys still have to prove themselves before I'm ready to put them in the category of those other teams mentioned above.

4decadedukie
08-05-2010, 09:35 AM
I do not know if it was depth (in its most crucial meaning), or coaching, or team commitment and selfless, or tenaciousness, or talent, or leadership, or a combination of these – and perhaps other – ingredients. However, our National Championship 2001 team deserves special mention for “depth.” When Carlos was injured in our next-to-last regular season ACC game against Maryland, the pundits all felt the Blue Devils were through. How wrong they were; despite this major impediment, Duke never lost again, winning both the ACC and the NCAA Championships. Players – especially Nate James – assumed vital roles and brilliantly succeeded, including Reggie Love and (IMHO) Duke’s all-time strongest leader and role-model, Shane Battier.

Kedsy
08-05-2010, 11:18 AM
Over the years of watching Duke basketball, ive noticed K doesnt really go more than 7 deep. Im looking at this years roster and I see a team that could go 10 deep. This has to be K's deepest team he has ever had. He has some heavy artillery coming off the bench this year and I am hoping he will use all of it. Its gonna be hard to keep people happy but if anyone can do it K can.

Does anyone think this is K's deepest team

The idea that K only plays a 7 man rotation is mostly a myth. The 1997-98 team had ten guys who played 10 or more minutes per game and an 11th guy who played 8 mpg. Statistically that is the deepest team Duke has fielded in the K era, but there have been many others who have gone 8 or 9 or even 10 deep.

That said, the 2010-11 team will have a lot of quality depth, and I expect a solid 9-man rotation, even toward the end of the year.

Bob Green
08-05-2010, 11:34 AM
The idea that K only plays a 7 man rotation is mostly a myth.

That said, the 2010-11 team will have a lot of quality depth, and I expect a solid 9-man rotation, even toward the end of the year.

I agree the seven man rotation is a myth. One of many myths surrounding the program.

The 2009-10 NCAA Champions team had eight players average double digit minutes on the season. I expect the 2010-11 team will also have a solid eight man rotation. Remove Scheyer, Thomas and Zoubek and insert Irving, Curry and Kelly.

Freshmen Josh Hairston and Tyler Thornton will most likely see minutes similar to those seen by Ryan Kelly as a freshman: 6.5 per game.

The Gordog
08-05-2010, 11:55 AM
I agree the seven man rotation is a myth. One of many myths surrounding the program.

The 2009-10 NCAA Champions team had eight players average double digit minutes on the season. I expect the 2010-11 team will also have a solid eight man rotation. Remove Scheyer, Thomas and Zoubek and insert Irving, Curry and Kelly.

Freshmen Josh Hairston and Tyler Thornton will most likely see minutes similar to those seen by Ryan Kelly as a freshman: 6.5 per game.

I am tweaking my prediction from 2 months ago by adding in an all others row of 2 mpg since we will have many blowouts this year.

Smith 28
Singler 28
Irving 27
Mason 25
Miles 25
Kelly 20
Curry 19
Dawkins 13
Hairston 8
Thornton 5
All Others 2
Total 200

As you can see, we will be going 8 deep next year. More than some years, less than others. For my money 1998 was our deepest team since I've been watching (1978)

Waynne
08-05-2010, 12:16 PM
I do not know if it was depth (in its most crucial meaning), or coaching, or team commitment and selfless, or tenaciousness, or talent, or leadership, or a combination of these – and perhaps other – ingredients. However, our National Championship 2001 team deserves special mention for “depth.” When Carlos was injured in our next-to-last regular season ACC game against Maryland, the pundits all felt the Blue Devils were through. How wrong they were; despite this major impediment, Duke never lost again, winning both the ACC and the NCAA Championships. Players – especially Nate James – assumed vital roles and brilliantly succeeded, including Reggie Love and (IMHO) Duke’s all-time strongest leader and role-model, Shane Battier.

The 2001 team also was incredibly talented. The five starters (Jason Williams, Duhon, Dunleavy, Boozer, and Battier) all were future NBA starters. Four of the five are still playing in the league. The team won all 6 NCAAT games by double digits. It's tough for any other Duke team to top that kind of talent.

4decadedukie
08-05-2010, 02:26 PM
The 2001 team also was incredibly talented. The five starters (Jason Williams, Duhon, Dunleavy, Boozer, and Battier) all were future NBA starters. Four of the five are still playing in the league. The team won all 6 NCAAT games by double digits. It's tough for any other Duke team to top that kind of talent.


I certainly agree re Duke's 2001 team being incredibly talented; however, my point extended beyond that. It would have been very easy for that team essentially to give up when Carlos was injured during the late-season Maryland game; in fact, that is exactly what the college hoops pundits expected would happen. Obviously it didn’t, and clearly Duke's results could not have been more spectacular. Players and coaches found other ways to win and assumed altered roles that eventually led to the ACC and National Championships. Toughness, adaptability and sheer unwillingness to be defeated or counted out became even more important than talent alone.

Talent is clearly important, but at some point in every truly winning season, leadership, selflessness, teamwork, tenacity, and determination become what separate good teams from great ones.

Last year’s UNC-CH team, for example, had considerable talent, but very little “character;” their results vividly demonstrate this thesis.

jipops
08-05-2010, 02:58 PM
I agree the seven man rotation is a myth. One of many myths surrounding the program.

The 2009-10 NCAA Champions team had eight players average double digit minutes on the season. I expect the 2010-11 team will also have a solid eight man rotation. Remove Scheyer, Thomas and Zoubek and insert Irving, Curry and Kelly.

Freshmen Josh Hairston and Tyler Thornton will most likely see minutes similar to those seen by Ryan Kelly as a freshman: 6.5 per game.

And if Kelly and Dawkins have made substantial improvement, we should have good productive depth. I feel pretty confident Curry is going to give us that as well.

Even with an improved Kelly, I still think our front court depth teeters just a bit. Thankfully we have the luxury of having Kyle move over to the post if need be, but if/when the Plumlees face foul issues Kelly is the only true big we have to go with. Not at all an alarming situation, just something to consider. I think the real luxury here is that we have guys coming off the bench this season that already have experience.

jjh1080
08-05-2010, 03:08 PM
Well, to predict playing time one needs to consider many factors.

Irving - sounds like he is good but if he struggles and they have a valid backup for him how long will Coach K stick with him? If he sits, how does he handle that? I believe Curry is a legitimate replacement at PG.

Smith - he proved himself last year but if Curry's lack of playing time affects his play will Coach K use Curry more at the expense of Smith. What if sitting more makes him less effective? I think Nolan gets all the playing time he needs to be effective, if that means 35 minutes he gets 35 minutes.

Curry - how does he handle coming off the bench?

Thornton - blowouts.

Singler - he proved himself last year and there is no one that can force him to sit. He gets all the playing time he needs to be effective, if that means 35 minutes he gets 35 minutes.

Dawkins - was last year enough to mature him? Confidence was an issue last year, did he mature enough to fight off a poor performance or two? He must get confident and stay confident even though he may have to come off the bench and not get much playing time. IF he shows that getting only 10 minutes of playing time that he wants to and can contribute his playing time could increase.

Miles - he got some great experience last year and the running style should fit him. But if he gets into a good grove do you risk sitting him a lot? He might just be one of those guys who needs to play about 30 minutes a game for several games before he gets his grove on.

Mason - just how much did last year help him? Is he worried someone can come off the bench and take some of his playing time away from him, how does he react to that? I don't think we know how it will affect him, if he thinks he should get more time than he is getting does he go into a hole and hide or will he stand up and fight. I hope he fights but sometimes when one thinks they have been the chosen one and then looses that feeling they tend to crawl into a hole. I think confidence could be everything here.

Kelly - is he really ready? Some nice videos of his summer play but it appears the defense is lacking in those games. We know the ACC will be physical, is he a physical guy? He might be physical with 6'8" guys but is he the same with 6'10" guys who weight 20 pounds more than him?

Hairston - he is a freshman, is he ready for the physical play of the ACC? Most freshman are use to being the king of the hill, their high school days, and tend to get taken back by the physical play of the more mature college players.

Sitting has an effect on a person if they are use to playing a lot, take JJ as a prime example. His early years in the NBA were reflective of him not being used to coming off the bench. Thus, sitting for a while on the bench when you are not use to sitting and then having to come in a contribute could be the biggest factor in determining playing time. I think this could be a huge issue because Coach K likes to make other teams match up with Duke and doesn't spend much time trying to match other teams. Thus, certain games will call for smaller lineups and others will call of taller lineups. The question is then, how does the player react to sitting more than they are use to sitting, can they come in a contribute if they sat longer than they are use to sitting? We just don't know how the rotation will affect players and that makes predicting playing time impossible. You can but it is like trying to find a needle in the dark.

Kedsy
08-05-2010, 03:52 PM
Irving - sounds like he is good but if he struggles and they have a valid backup for him how long will Coach K stick with him? If he sits, how does he handle that? I believe Curry is a legitimate replacement at PG.

Don't worry, Coach K will stick with him. If he's not giving 100% effort it's possible he won't start a game or two, but that will be for motivational purposes, nothing else.


Smith - he proved himself last year but if Curry's lack of playing time affects his play will Coach K use Curry more at the expense of Smith. What if sitting more makes him less effective? I think Nolan gets all the playing time he needs to be effective, if that means 35 minutes he gets 35 minutes.

Singler - he proved himself last year and there is no one that can force him to sit. He gets all the playing time he needs to be effective, if that means 35 minutes he gets 35 minutes.

Kyle will play a lot, but I'll be surprised if he averages as much as 35 minutes. I'll be shocked if Nolan plays that much.


Curry - how does he handle coming off the bench?

Seth knows the roster, and he knows he'll get plenty of minutes. Why do you think he won't handle it well?


Dawkins - was last year enough to mature him? Confidence was an issue last year, did he mature enough to fight off a poor performance or two? He must get confident and stay confident even though he may have to come off the bench and not get much playing time. IF he shows that getting only 10 minutes of playing time that he wants to and can contribute his playing time could increase.


I'll be very surprised if Andre is playing just 10 minutes a game. I think at least 15 and probably more.


Miles - he got some great experience last year and the running style should fit him. But if he gets into a good grove do you risk sitting him a lot? He might just be one of those guys who needs to play about 30 minutes a game for several games before he gets his grove on.

Based on K's history of playing big men for fewer minutes and our loaded roster, there is no chance that Miles averages 30 minutes. My guess is he won't hit that figure even once in 2010-11, unless we have injury problems.


Mason - just how much did last year help him? Is he worried someone can come off the bench and take some of his playing time away from him, how does he react to that? * * *

Kelly - is he really ready? * * *

Hairston - he is a freshman, is he ready for the physical play of the ACC? * * *



All of your questions are at least semi-legitimate, but I don't know why you take such a negative tone. I believe we'll have eight guys worthy of starters minutes and two guys worthy of solid reserve minutes. Obviously they won't all get that many minutes (unless we petition the NCAA to extend our games to 50 or 60 minutes), but the competition in practice and in games to earn playing time will be fierce. As far as I can tell, it's all good.

77devil
08-05-2010, 05:56 PM
The 2001 title team bought Dunleavy off the bench, right?

The 1992 team brought Chief, Meek, Clark off the bench.

The 1991 team brought McCaffrey (!), either Davis/Koubek and Palmer/Buckley off the bench.

1999 had Nate, Burgess, Maggette off the bench - that gets my vote for deepest.

Dunleavy was a starter.

Based on distribution of minutes its a toss up between 1991, 1998 and 1999 but I'd give the edge to 1991. All had 9 players with double digit minutes, and 1991 and 1998 had the 9 top players in every game, but 1991 had 9 players with a meaningful # of starts with McCaffrey and Hill getting the most starts after the big 3, and Davis, Antonio Lang, Koubek and Palmer coming off the bench more often than not. The 1998 team had Domzalsky and Price just below double digit minutes, but Brand's injury skews the distribution of minutes for this team. All 3 were very deep.

I don't believe this year's team will go deeper than 8, but we'll have to see how much Hariston is able to contribute as a freshman.

ElSid
08-05-2010, 06:16 PM
The "redeem team" was pretty darn deep too. :)

Newton_14
08-05-2010, 08:21 PM
The 1998 team was incredibly deep: Wojo, Langdon, Battier, McLeod, Brand, Avery, Chappell, Carrawell, Burgess, Domzalski, Price/James. That's 11 guys who could all have started and contribute significantly to a major D-1 that season (in fact, all of them at some point were regular 20+ mpg players on the Duke team during their careers). That might be the deepest team we've ever fielded.

In terms of the most number of players with top-tier talent, the 1991-1992 teams, the 1999 team, and the 2001 team might have something to say about that (and that's just off the top of my head). Though the 1999 and 2001 teams were not actually all that deep. They were just really really good through at least 6-7 guys (top-end depth), as opposed to really solid/good through 10-11 guys.

That being said, it's a potentially very deep and talented team. It's just that some guys still have to prove themselves before I'm ready to put them in the category of those other teams mentioned above.

I agree. 1998 would be my pick and I actually compared this year's team to that team awhile back. 98 was incredibly deep in terms of quality players that you could trust on the floor in any game. It was actually deeper than the 99 team, though the 99 team was actually a better, more dominant team, that could have easily gone undefeated and National Champs. Karma is a funny thing. Had the basketball gods chosen to smile on us, K could have potentially had back to back undefeated National Title teams in 99 and 2000. In 99 the games against Cincy and uCON's could have easily been won, and had Brand, Maggette, Avery, and Burgess chosen to stick around with Williams, Boozer, and Dunleavy added to the mix, that 2000 team would have had a great chance to go undefeated. "If and buts" and all that, but it was achievable.. Instead we missed the mark both years....Darn basketball gods..

Newton_14
08-05-2010, 08:29 PM
My question is how many players will get 15+ minutes during ACC play?

Guaranteed:
-Ndotsmitty
-Singler
-Brother Plumlee 1
-Brother Plumlee 2
-Irving
-Curry

<90% likely:
-Kelly (3.5 min in 2010 starting with Clemson on 1/3)

<80% likely:
-Dawkins (9.5 min in 2010 starting with Clemson on 1/3)

<25% likely:
-Hairston

<10% likely:
-Thornton

It this scenario happens, that means that Coach K will most likely have a rotation of 8 (possibly 9) by the time ACC play comes around.

There have to teams deeper than 8 players in the past, right?

Great post and yes K has played more than 8 guys in the past when he had the talent. 98 is a great example. 97 as well.

I agree with your breakdown here and I feel that how deep this team ends up being depends on how ready Kelly, Hairston, and Thornton are. If those 3 guys are capable of meaningful contribution against all opponents, K will work them into the rotation and use them every game.

I am excited at the prospects. Seeing the guys in person the other night was a good shot in the arm for the mid-summer blues. I did not get to see Thornton, but Hairston looks good and may well be a pleasant surprise. I am also confident Kelly is going to be a regular rotation guy as well. If Hairston joins Kelly in readiness, meaning all 4 bigs can be counted on against tough opponents, the level of "greatness" of this team goes up another notch.

Newton_14
08-05-2010, 09:21 PM
And if Kelly and Dawkins have made substantial improvement, we should have good productive depth. I feel pretty confident Curry is going to give us that as well.

Even with an improved Kelly, I still think our front court depth teeters just a bit. Thankfully we have the luxury of having Kyle move over to the post if need be, but if/when the Plumlees face foul issues Kelly is the only true big we have to go with. Not at all an alarming situation, just something to consider. I think the real luxury here is that we have guys coming off the bench this season that already have experience.

Don't sleep on Josh Hairston. Whether or not he is ready is a question, but he is a "true big". He is a very solid 6'8 to 6'9 guy who can certainly defend the 4 spot and likely defend the 5 spot in a pinch for a few minutes if it were to come to that. I definitely count him as a true post player this year. So a rotation of 4 bigs with Miles, Mason, Ryan, Josh, and Singler available to provide minutes at the 4 when K chooses to.

Just 1 short of last year's 5 man platoon of bigs. (Zoubs, Lance, Miles, Mason, Kelly)

Bob Green
08-05-2010, 10:20 PM
In 99 the games against Cincy and uCON's could have easily been won, and had Brand, Maggette, Avery, and Burgess chosen to stick around with Williams, Boozer, and Dunleavy added to the mix, that 2000 team would have had a great chance to go undefeated. "If and buts" and all that, but it was achievable.. Instead we missed the mark both years....Darn basketball gods..

Yeah, I agree, but it is years such as 99 (and 86 and 78) which make the 2010 Championship so so sweet. I'm not denigrating the 91, 92 or 01 Championships but 2010 was just absolutely amazing. The game was four months ago; however, I'm still smiling! :)

stuckinOHdukefan
08-08-2010, 02:00 AM
The 2001 team also was incredibly talented. The five starters (Jason Williams, Duhon, Dunleavy, Boozer, and Battier) all were future NBA starters. Four of the five are still playing in the league. The team won all 6 NCAAT games by double digits. It's tough for any other Duke team to top that kind of talent.

This is but I'd like to point out that before the accident that the one guy who is currently commentatint (Jay Williams) had the most upside and was the closest to becoming a superstar player at the next level. Back to the main point of this thread though being deapth, it is easily the deepest Duke team of the past decade. I feel like this thread takes mile's jump to an elite player for granted over mason's. Personally, I feel like Kelly's playing time will be mostly up to foul trouble between the two brothers but he will dig more into Mile's minutes than Mason's. Regarding Seth and Andre I believe its will come down to defense more than anything with PT. They are both lights out shooter that will find a plethora of oppourtunities with Singler, Smith, and Irving on the floor but if theres one thing K prooved with the 2010 championship team hustle and D are essential.

mapei
08-08-2010, 08:32 PM
Having not seen Curry play, I'm a little surprised to see so much confidence in him, especially compared to Dawkins. Have others actually seen Seth play much? Can anyone point me to a source for the optimism? Not doubting, just eager to learn!

COYS
08-09-2010, 01:54 PM
Having not seen Curry play, I'm a little surprised to see so much confidence in him, especially compared to Dawkins. Have others actually seen Seth play much? Can anyone point me to a source for the optimism? Not doubting, just eager to learn!

The fact that he played a full year at Liberty and led all freshman in scoring at over 21ppg is a pretty good place to start in terms of being optimistic about Curry. Yes, Liberty didn't play a tough schedule, but he was double to triple teamed every game. He also delivered in his games against ACC competition. Add to this the fact that he's had a year to learn K's system, develop physically, and mature as a basketball player and I think you can conclude that he will be a big contributor for Duke. While Curry and Dawkins might be in competition for minutes, they are both very different players. Dawkins is much more of a pure 2 or even college 3 on occasion. Curry is a combo 1/2 with a scorers mentality. Both of them will be instrumental to our success next year.

ACCBBallFan
08-09-2010, 06:26 PM
Coach K got plenty of expereince on Team USA 2008 managing PT expectations.

Heck if he wants to he can keep his two seniors on the floor and sub in all three who are likely to get starter minutes

Seth-Nolan-Dre-Kyle-Ryan who would be impossible to prepare for or guard with a traditional lineup

or sub in Tyler and Josh for full court defensive pressure, assuming Duke does not do pressure defense all the time this year.

Seth, Dre and Ryan each offer something a little different than Kyrie-Nolan-Kyle-MP2-MP1. So plenty of good options

Unlike last year where Jon-Ryan-Z would be too slow a trio to pair with Nolan-Kyle, this year for a couple minutes, Duke can just about pick any 2-3 guards and 2-3 forwards and have some mismatch advantages.

So if instead of picking randomly, coach K is doing the choosing, hard to put a college lineup on the floor that Duke cannot counter.

Opponnets' best strategy would be to somehow get Kyle into foul trouble, but that did not work very often last year.

ElSid
08-09-2010, 07:02 PM
Having not seen Curry play, I'm a little surprised to see so much confidence in him, especially compared to Dawkins. Have others actually seen Seth play much? Can anyone point me to a source for the optimism? Not doubting, just eager to learn!

Players on last year's team said he was at times the best offensive player on the court during practice. That's against very good competition. And practice is very intense.

Also, in the summer competitions, journalists have said he looks very very good.

I see your point, but I think we have plenty of objective reasons to be optimistic...not just hopeful.

dukeballboy88
08-09-2010, 09:01 PM
I guess another thing im looking at regarding depth with this team is Tyler Thornton. Its safe to say Tyler may not get alot of playing time next year for Duke but head to head last year he outplayed UNC's savior at the PG position Kendall Marshall. One guy may not see the floor but a guy he outplayed is supposed to save a program????

Duke is going to be very deep next year.

mapei
08-09-2010, 09:29 PM
Thanks for the updates re Seth. Very encouraging.

Osiagledknarf
08-09-2010, 10:00 PM
I guess another thing im looking at regarding depth with this team is Tyler Thornton. Its safe to say Tyler may not get alot of playing time next year for Duke but head to head last year he outplayed UNC's savior at the PG position Kendall Marshall. One guy may not see the floor but a guy he outplayed is supposed to save a program????

Duke is going to be very deep next year.

Couldn't agree with you more.

Just think about it. Our 2nd unit will most likely consist of: Tyler Thornton, Seth Curry, Andre Dawkins, Joshua Hairston, Ryan Kelly. Not in that order obviously as regards to playing time by any means, but this is most likely to be the "2nd unit" with guys like Curry, Kelly and Dawkins leading it, with Hairston and Thornton fighting for playing time.

So you have two 5 star prospects in Dawkins and Kelly coming off the bench, the leading freshman in the country two years ago, a top 20 player depending on where you look in the 2010 class and a PG who has outplayed the "great" Kendall Marshall in Tyler Thornton.

You could argue that our bench could be starting for a lot of teams in the country.

Take a look at this again:

Irving/Curry/ Thornton
Smith/Curry/Dawkins
Singler/Dawkins/Hairston
Mason/Kelly/Hairston
Miles/Kelly

So we have a potential top 5 pick in there in Kyrie Irving. Two preseason All Americans in Nolan Smith and Kyle Singler, and two highly athletic big man, one of which could be a top 20 pick in Mason Plumlee.

This team is ready to run and gun, ready to explode on the scene and ready to light up a scoreboard near you.

Like T.O once said; "Get your popcorn ready because it's gonna be a show"

That's how I feel about this team.

jimsumner
08-10-2010, 10:29 AM
"The 1998 team was incredibly deep: Wojo, Langdon, Battier, McLeod, Brand, Avery, Chappell, Carrawell, Burgess, Domzalski, Price/James"

I think this was K's deepest team. Domzalski was 10th on the team in mpg, just a silly centimeter under 10 per game.

But it should be pointed out that Brand missed 15 games with a broken foot, James hurt a foot early in the season and redshirted, while Price sat out the first half of the season for academic reasons and never got back into the rotation.

It also should be noted that using mpg over the entire season isn't always accurate. Like many coaches, K has a tendency to compress his rotation as the season progresses. Lots of blow-outs can skew this stat. See 1999.

As for this season, I think it is realistic to expect nine players to receive at least 10 mpg, with Thornton making most of his contributions in practice. That isn't intended to be a back-handed slap. K frequently has cited competitive practices as one of the hallmarks of his best teams.