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gam7
08-02-2010, 08:06 PM
In the months that I've been reading these boards, I have not seen any discussion on this topic - apologies if this is rehashing a long-ago-resolved issue.

Who do you think will take over after Coach K retires (hopefully not for a while)? Does it have to be someone with Duke ties?

How will Duke handle the transition to avoid falling into something like the Doh-ridge era? Is it even possible for there to be a smooth transition from Coach K to someone else?

About 10 years ago, I thought the best possible successors would be Quin Snyder or Tommy Amaker. More recently, people seem to have assumed that Johnny D is the heir apparent. In the family, I suppose anyone on the staff has to be a candidate. I think Jeff Capel would be the most intriguing hire if it has to be someone with Duke ties.

I used to feel strongly that we should keep a successor in the family, but now I think that would be foolish (and may have been one thing that Carolina got wrong). I mean, would anyone be disappointed if we were able to convince a Brad Stevens or someone of that ilk (without Duke ties) to take over?

And how the transition happens is just as important as who we transition to.

Thoughts?

_TheFakeJWill_
08-02-2010, 08:18 PM
ive wondered this as well. i wouldnt mind
Johnny D
Jeff Capel
Bill Self
Jay Wright

Just my 2 cents though :) but i do hope it stays in the family though. and Coach K also said he will stay at Duke even after he retires though...

gep
08-02-2010, 11:09 PM
ive wondered this as well. i wouldnt mind
Johnny D
Jeff Capel
Bill Self
Jay Wright

Just my 2 cents though :) but i do hope it stays in the family though. and Coach K also said he will stay at Duke even after he retires though...

I would put Brad Stevens in that list... just a gut feel watching this year's NCAAT. I don't know about Bill Self... I never felt real good about him (gut feel, again). Also, referring to the post above, I wonder if Coach K being "involved" with Duke after he retires will actually make it easier or harder for a former Duke player/coach to take over... easier--Coach K easily available for consultation... harder-Coach K always there "looking over his shoulder"... maybe even intimidating?

gam7
08-03-2010, 12:57 AM
I wonder if Coach K being "involved" with Duke after he retires will actually make it easier or harder for a former Duke player/coach to take over... easier--Coach K easily available for consultation... harder-Coach K always there "looking over his shoulder"... maybe even intimidating?

I would think that Coach K's involvement after retirement would be on balance a negative for well-established non-Duke candidates who don't have a pre-existing personal relationship with him. I just have trouble seeing Jay Wright or Bill Self or Brad Stevens agreeing to step in if K heavily involved.

I think Coach K's heavy involvement could only work with someone in the family - and even then it would be really delicate balance. I suspect Coach K won't even know until he's retired how comfortable he will feel letting someone else have the final say on everything.

flyingdutchdevil
08-03-2010, 03:54 AM
I would think that Coach K's involvement after retirement would be on balance a negative for well-established non-Duke candidates who don't have a pre-existing personal relationship with him. I just have trouble seeing Jay Wright or Bill Self or Brad Stevens agreeing to step in if K heavily involved.

I think Coach K's heavy involvement could only work with someone in the family - and even then it would be really delicate balance. I suspect Coach K won't even know until he's retired how comfortable he will feel letting someone else have the final say on everything.

If I remember correctly, Coach K said that when he plans to retire, he is GOING to retire. No involvement with Duke athletics one way or another. He also said that he doesn't think he'll get involved with selecting the next coach (I find that hard to believe). But I do think he'll step away and enjoy retirement.

Another interesting question - where will Coach retire? Durham? Chicago? Indiana? Sunny, ole Florida? Dean is still based in Chapel Hill, right?

uh_no
08-03-2010, 07:03 AM
Another interesting question - where will Coach retire? Durham? Chicago? Indiana? Sunny, ole Florida? Dean is still based in Chapel Hill, right?

I can't imagine coach K moving his family

flyingdutchdevil
08-03-2010, 07:38 AM
I can't imagine coach K moving his family

That would be true if he had young kids. But Coach K's family is all grown up with families of their own, and I'd be a little surprised if K didn't move because of his family. Not moving due to a love of Durham is another question. K's been in Durham for so long that it naturally makes sense to retire there...

moonpie23
08-03-2010, 07:41 AM
i've always thought that mark few would make a good candidate....


http://ui32.gamespot.com/479/702headbanginstick_4.gif

uh_no
08-03-2010, 07:48 AM
That would be true if he had young kids. But Coach K's family is all grown up with families of their own, and I'd be a little surprised if K didn't move because of his family. Not moving due to a love of Durham is another question. K's been in Durham for so long that it naturally makes sense to retire there...

well that, and he just does so much for the community, especially with the emily K center.....I can't imagine him skipping town with that kinda thing going on.....I picture him like john wooden....sitting in cameron till he's 100 watching games and enjoying what he built for over 40 yeras

MisterRoddy
08-03-2010, 07:54 AM
I can't help but to bring up that some of my fellow Heat fans on PSD seemed to love the idea of K coming in to coach the Heat. I immediately scoffed at the idea and set them straight: K is staying in Durham for the rest of his coaching career. Period.

sagegrouse
08-03-2010, 08:16 AM
well that, and he just does so much for the community, especially with the emily K center.....I can't imagine him skipping town with that kinda thing going on.....I picture him like john wooden....sitting in cameron till he's 100 watching games and enjoying what he built for over 40 yeras

Amen. Moreover, his family is totally involved in Coach K, Inc. All members live in or near Durham IIRC. Then there are the grandchildren nearby. :)

Plus, there is his involvement with the Coach K/Fuqua/Kenan Center of Leadership and Ethics.

sagegrouse

jjh1080
08-04-2010, 08:16 AM
First of all, Shane will be president when he is done with the NBA so he won't have time to coach at Duke. Any current Dukie coaching will have a lot more to prove to be considered a candidate.

The coach will have to be someone who has proven himself to be a leader, not talking about winning but about leadership. Thus, there are only two candidates:

Rick P (Quickie Rick)
John Cali

I think this past season Roy W took his name out of the leadership pool.

Don't get your panties in a bunch, I was joking...

My belief is when Coach K goes so goes Duke. Many professional head hunters will tell you to not take a job that the person before did such a good job at. Who in their right mind wants to be compared to what Coach K did at Duke?

Look at what happened at UNC when Dean retired. It took years to right that ship. Since Knight left IU the ship has not been righted. I'm waiting to see what happens at Arizona.

Just think about it, if the coach keeps winning at Duke it will be because of what Coach K did to get Duke started and if they don't win they will be compared to what Duke did under Coach K and people will wonder, out load, why this coach can't do the same thing.

I cheer for Duke because of Coach K, not for Coach K because of Duke.

hq2
08-04-2010, 08:17 AM
Battier won't coach at Duke; I think he's got his eyes set on even bigger things. Hopefully, I'll get to be at his inauguration in 20 years!

duke79
08-04-2010, 09:10 AM
First of all, Shane will be president when he is done with the NBA so he won't have time to coach at Duke. Any current Dukie coaching will have a lot more to prove to be considered a candidate.

The coach will have to be someone who has proven himself to be a leader, not talking about winning but about leadership. Thus, there are only two candidates:

Rick P (Quickie Rick)
John Cali

I think this past season Roy W took his name out of the leadership pool.

Don't get your panties in a bunch, I was joking...

My belief is when Coach K goes so goes Duke. Many professional head hunters will tell you to not take a job that the person before did such a good job at. Who in their right mind wants to be compared to what Coach K did at Duke?

Look at what happened at UNC when Dean retired. It took years to right that ship. Since Knight left IU the ship has not been righted. I'm waiting to see what happens at Arizona.

Just think about it, if the coach keeps winning at Duke it will be because of what Coach K did to get Duke started and if they don't win they will be compared to what Duke did under Coach K and people will wonder, out load, why this coach can't do the same thing.

I cheer for Duke because of Coach K, not for Coach K because of Duke.

Good point. Always tough to follow a great leader, whether in business, sports, politics, or the military. Look at General Electric. Stock hit $60 per share when Jack Welch was running the company and fell to $7.00 per share when Jeff Immelt took over. All the business media compares Immelt unfavorably to Jack Welch (whether fair or not). Who followed John Wooden at UCLA? I don't have a clue. Whoever follows Coach K at Duke is going to have VERY big shoes to fill. I almost feel sorry for that person. It will be very tough to live up to the legent that Coach K has created.

Johnboy
08-04-2010, 10:01 AM
Who followed John Wooden at UCLA? I don't have a clue.

Gene Bartow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Bartow), who went 52-9 in two years and took UCLA to the Final Four the year after Wooden left (1975-76) and the Sweet Sixteen the year after that. He was inducted into the National Collegiate Basketball Hall of fame last year.

After Wooden left, UCLA went through a string of coaches (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCLA_Bruins_men%27s_basketball#Coaches) who would stay only a couple/few years and then leave, until Jim Harrick stayed for 8 years. We all have a sense of dread about Coach K leaving. It seems to me that K's immediate successor will probably be a transitional figure and will only be head coach at Duke for a short time - 2-3 years.

UCLA, Carolina and St. John's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._John%27s_Red_Storm_men%27s_basketball)have had what I'm calling "transitional" coaches after their legendary coaches retired, but Kentucky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Kentucky_Wildcats_men%27s_basketball_head_ coaches), Kansas (http://www.kusports.com/basketball/history/coaches/)and Indiana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Hoosiers_men%27s_basketball#Coaches) have avoided the phenomenon. I'm not sure how to classify Bucky Waters (who followed the legendary Vic Bubas at Duke) - 4 years may be just long enough to avoid the "transitional" tag.

sagegrouse
08-04-2010, 10:22 AM
Many professional head hunters will tell you to not take a job that the person before did such a good job at. Who in their right mind wants to be compared to what Coach K did at Duke?



I couldn't disagree more with the headhunters' advice. Many top-level management jobs are basically impossible due to internal (organization, responsibilities, and resources) and external factors (brands, sales, competitiveness). Seeing that someone else has succeeded in the job would be especially comforting to me, particularly as an outsider coming into a company or organization.

In Washington, for example, Secretaries or Energy and Homeland Security usually appear to be struggling with their jobs, while the Secretary Defense usually gets a good rating. Fact is, Energy and Homeland Security are largely impossible -- Energy because of the lack of a clear mission and the power of the constituent elements and Homeland Security because it was created out of separate and often warring agencies (INS, Customs, Border Patrol, FEMA, Coast Guard, etc.) and Congress refused to give the agency, when created, enough centralized resources to create a strong management team. The Department of Defense is executing the President's constitutional powers as commander in chief and, therefore, is immune from much of the outside meddling that occurs in other agencies. Moreover, the folks in the Pentagon are good at "making the boss look good," whether in uniform or civilian attire.

What has this to say about Duke? Well, I and most others would leap at the chance to coach at a top-ten academic university that is in the top five in all-time wins and National Championships, BECAUSE success begets success. It is a heckuva lot harder to succeed where no one else has -- which makes Cut's performance in football so impressive.

sagegrouse

Billy Dat
08-04-2010, 10:40 AM
Michigan State did pretty well staying in the family with an unproven head coach.

I can't imagine the program going outside the family and the guy, to me, who feels like he's being groomed is Chris Collins.

SupaDave
08-04-2010, 11:13 AM
It seems that a thread involving life after K pops up every off season. I submit that it is way too premature to speculate. Coach has said on numerous occasions that he has no plans to retire anytime soon, and much change will occur between now and then in college basketball and at Duke that could affect the outcome.

Coach K isn't going anywhere. He has a lifetime contract with University and will be active at Fuqua and other aspects of the University, and the Emily K. Center in Durham at the very least.

Yep - totally correct on both points.

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?15455-Coach-K-s-eventual-successor&highlight=successor

jjh1080
08-04-2010, 01:28 PM
In Washington, for example, Secretaries ...

sagegrouse

Seriously, you want to use Washington, D.C. as a comparison. That place is probably the biggest pit of incompetency there is. I'm waiting for Shane to straighten things out there.

As someone who works with and consults with head hunters, taking over a job after someone before you has been as successful as Coach K has been, they would tell you they will keep your name and information handy, you'll be back in the near future. I've seen it way way more than guys being successful after replacing a successful guy.

One needs to keep in mind the history of Izzo. He went to college and started his college coaching career at Northern Michigan. Later, he came to MSU and worked under Jud before getting the head coaching job. Thus, this guy was not born and breed MSU. Jud saw Izzo was good and brought him in, he didn't give him his start. Thus, when comparing Izzo to guys likely Johnny D, I would say Johnny D is family and Izzo was a close friend of the family but not family.

Trapper John
08-04-2010, 02:13 PM
Long time listener, first time caller. While I have been a Duke fan since starting business school at Fuqua, I have been an Alabama football fan since I was a kid. While I was still young, the legendary Bear Bryant stepped down as head coach, to be succeeded by Ray Perkins, as the school tried to keep a line of succession with someone from the Alabama “family”.

The biggest lesson I’ve learned from this is that winning breeds arrogance, losing breeds humility or at least flexibility (which is, in my opinion, necessary to return to winning). I admit that Alabama fans remain some of the most arrogant in the SEC, but the attitude has softened considerably, finally allowing a new, distinct leadership persona to run the program his way. True, there are a few lucky fits like Roy at Carolina or even Gene Stallings at Bama, but I believe those are the exception rather than the rule.

Prior to Saban, outsiders who attempted to do things their own way (see Curry, Bill) were run out on a rail because Alabama wasn’t so much about winning as it was about winning Paul Bryant’s way. For example, up until recently, there was a significant part of the fan base that wanted to go back to the wishbone (granted, not a terrible idea if you’ve got Paul Johnson as your coach, but he’s not “family”…). How would you feel if the next coach exclusively runs a 2-3 zone as the primary defense at Duke? In the short term, that will be anathema for the majority of the fanbase, but after missing the tourney a few times, details like that will not matter as much.

When winning becomes more important than winning with a certain style (offense, defense, whatever), that’s when a program is ready to give the next coach more than just the valet key to the program. Notre Dame football still isn’t there yet, and honestly, academic standards may keep them that way.

I’ll leave you with this sobering thought: 5-6 years after K retires, 90% of recruits won’t know who he is. That’s why the fan base is so important. Let the AD do his/her job and then let the new coach do his job, but we need to do our job in keeping Cameron as the best environment in college basketball and making it a place everybody wants to coach and play. In all likelihood, coaches (and success) after K will come and go, but the fans line of succession can and should remain unbroken.

Trapper

Indoor66
08-04-2010, 02:36 PM
Long time listener, first time caller. While I have been a Duke fan since starting business school at Fuqua, I have been an Alabama football fan since I was a kid. While I was still young, the legendary Bear Bryant stepped down as head coach, to be succeeded by Ray Perkins, as the school tried to keep a line of succession with someone from the Alabama “family”.

The biggest lesson I’ve learned from this is that winning breeds arrogance, losing breeds humility or at least flexibility (which is, in my opinion, necessary to return to winning). I admit that Alabama fans remain some of the most arrogant in the SEC, but the attitude has softened considerably, finally allowing a new, distinct leadership persona to run the program his way. True, there are a few lucky fits like Roy at Carolina or even Gene Stallings at Bama, but I believe those are the exception rather than the rule.

Prior to Saban, outsiders who attempted to do things their own way (see Curry, Bill) were run out on a rail because Alabama wasn’t so much about winning as it was about winning Paul Bryant’s way. For example, up until recently, there was a significant part of the fan base that wanted to go back to the wishbone (granted, not a terrible idea if you’ve got Paul Johnson as your coach, but he’s not “family”…). How would you feel if the next coach exclusively runs a 2-3 zone as the primary defense at Duke? In the short term, that will be anathema for the majority of the fanbase, but after missing the tourney a few times, details like that will not matter as much.

When winning becomes more important than winning with a certain style (offense, defense, whatever), that’s when a program is ready to give the next coach more than just the valet key to the program. Notre Dame football still isn’t there yet, and honestly, academic standards may keep them that way.

I’ll leave you with this sobering thought: 5-6 years after K retires, 90% of recruits won’t know who he is. That’s why the fan base is so important. Let the AD do his/her job and then let the new coach do his job, but we need to do our job in keeping Cameron as the best environment in college basketball and making it a place everybody wants to coach and play. In all likelihood, coaches (and success) after K will come and go, but the fans line of succession can and should remain unbroken.

Trapper

Well said and I fully agree with you. My desire is that the next coach be the best available, whether with Duke ties or not. "Nepotism" is not always a good idea.

Mal
08-04-2010, 05:21 PM
Wait - I thought we were shutting down the program after K retires. Wasn't it that, or someone over at Pratt was going to figure out how to animate a golem in the likeness of Krzyzewski, for us to prop up on the sidelines until Shane Battier's had enough of being in the Senate? You people are confusing me with all this talk about hiring other coaches.

Johnboy
08-04-2010, 05:32 PM
One needs to keep in mind the history of Izzo. He went to college and started his college coaching career at Northern Michigan. Later, he came to MSU and worked under Jud before getting the head coaching job. Thus, this guy was not born and breed MSU. Jud saw Izzo was good and brought him in, he didn't give him his start. Thus, when comparing Izzo to guys likely Johnny D, I would say Johnny D is family and Izzo was a close friend of the family but not family.

Coach K certainly wasn't "family" when he was hired (nor was John Wooden, Dean Smith or Bob Knight). Izzo and O'l Roy may be the best examples of successful "family" - but of course, Roy was proven at KU (where he wasn't family), not unc-ch. Who are the most successful "family" hires in NCAA history?

Gary Williams? Who else?

Duvall
08-04-2010, 05:43 PM
Coach K certainly wasn't "family" when he was hired (nor was John Wooden, Dean Smith or Bob Knight). Izzo and O'l Roy may be the best examples of successful "family" - but of course, Roy was proven at KU (where he wasn't family), not unc-ch. Who are the most successful "family" hires in NCAA history?

Well, Dean was a North Carolina assistant when he was hired as head coach. Not sure how long it takes for an assistant to become family.

Gary Williams has a Maryland player and has now coached there for over twenty years with some success. Boeheim has been at Syracuse for over forty years as a player, assistant and head coach. Herb Magee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herb_Magee) is entering his 50th year at Philadelphia University as player and coach.

JG Nothing
08-04-2010, 08:50 PM
More recently, people seem to have assumed that Johnny D is the heir apparent.

According to Stanford AD Bob Bowlsby, "Coach Krzyzewski said that Johnny was a likely successor to him.”
http://sports.chronicleblogs.com/2008/04/29/the-man-who-would-replace-k/
I assume the job is Dawkins' to lose.

arnie
08-04-2010, 09:20 PM
According to Stanford AD Bob Bowlsby, "Coach Krzyzewski said that Johnny was a likely successor to him.”
http://sports.chronicleblogs.com/2008/04/29/the-man-who-would-replace-k/
I assume the job is Dawkins' to lose.

Hopefully, Dawkins will only be hired at Duke if he's somewhat succesful at Stanford. If K retires in 5 years and Dawkins hasn't finished high in the Pac-10, why should he be hired as head coach at Duke? I tend to agree with the others that the family connection is way overrated.

Johnboy
08-04-2010, 09:30 PM
Well, Dean was a North Carolina assistant when he was hired as head coach. Not sure how long it takes for an assistant to become family.

Gary Williams has a Maryland player and has now coached there for over twenty years with some success. Boeheim has been at Syracuse for over forty years as a player, assistant and head coach. Herb Magee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herb_Magee) is entering his 50th year at Philadelphia University as player and coach.

Boeheim is a great example - but he didn't immediately follow a legend, did he (nor did Gary Williams, even though he's definitely "family" at Maryland.

Dean was only a Frank McGuire assistant for three years (1958-60) when he was hired for the 60-61 season. I'm not sure that's long enough to be "family" as we've described in this thread.

JG Nothing
08-04-2010, 09:47 PM
Hopefully, Dawkins will only be hired at Duke if he's somewhat succesful at Stanford. If K retires in 5 years and Dawkins hasn't finished high in the Pac-10, why should he be hired as head coach at Duke? I tend to agree with the others that the family connection is way overrated.

I doubt the Duke connection is overrated. When was the last time K hired an assistant who was not a former Duke player (rhetorical question)?

gam7
08-05-2010, 02:38 AM
According to Stanford AD Bob Bowlsby, "Coach Krzyzewski said that Johnny was a likely successor to him.”
http://sports.chronicleblogs.com/2008/04/29/the-man-who-would-replace-k/
I assume the job is Dawkins' to lose.

Interesting, I hadn't seen this. That's shocking to me that Bowlsby (1) would publicly disclose what K said about that, and (2) would knowingly hire someone he has been told point blank was a likely successor.

sagegrouse
08-05-2010, 07:35 AM
I doubt the Duke connection is overrated. When was the last time K hired an assistant who was not a former Duke player (rhetorical question)?

Mike Brey and -- before that -- Pete Gaudet, who came with him from Army.

sagegrouse

superdave
08-05-2010, 08:36 AM
You guys realize every post in this thread has already been posted in another thread in some varying form at least 12 times. It's Dawkins until anyone says otherwise.

77devil
08-05-2010, 08:45 AM
You guys realize every post in this thread has already been posted in another thread in some varying form at least 12 times.

You can say that again just about every off season. There's even another one on the first page. Summer doldrums I suppose.


It's Dawkins until anyone says otherwise.

I think you mean until Coach K says otherwise.;)

miramar
08-05-2010, 09:21 AM
Gene Bartow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Bartow), who went 52-9 in two years and took UCLA to the Final Four the year after Wooden left (1975-76) and the Sweet Sixteen the year after that. He was inducted into the National Collegiate Basketball Hall of fame last year.

After Wooden left, UCLA went through a string of coaches (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCLA_Bruins_men%27s_basketball#Coaches) who would stay only a couple/few years and then leave, until Jim Harrick stayed for 8 years. We all have a sense of dread about Coach K leaving. It seems to me that K's immediate successor will probably be a transitional figure and will only be head coach at Duke for a short time - 2-3 years.

UCLA, Carolina and St. John's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._John%27s_Red_Storm_men%27s_basketball)have had what I'm calling "transitional" coaches after their legendary coaches retired, but Kentucky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Kentucky_Wildcats_men%27s_basketball_head_ coaches), Kansas (http://www.kusports.com/basketball/history/coaches/)and Indiana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Hoosiers_men%27s_basketball#Coaches) have avoided the phenomenon. I'm not sure how to classify Bucky Waters (who followed the legendary Vic Bubas at Duke) - 4 years may be just long enough to avoid the "transitional" tag.

UCLA's experience in 1975 might be a good lesson on how not to replace a legendary coach. Gene Bartow was a fine coach, but he clearly wasn't ready for the pressure cooker in Westwood. They seemed to have hired him because he had been to the Final Four once and had a unassuming personality much like Coach Wooden's. When he left after two years, they hired assistant coach Gary Cunningham, who really didn't want to be a head coach, so he also left after two years. (Cunningham later became the athletic director at UC Santa Barbara, where he was apparently quite successful.)

By the time a young Larry Brown came on in 1979, Sports Illustrated was announcing that "The Bruins are in Ruins" and that nobody was in awe of UCLA any more:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1126424/index.htm

Brown turned things around the next year with an outstanding freshman class, and UCLA unexpectedly reached the 1980 NCAA championship game, where they lost to Louisville. Brown only lasted two years as well, and UCLA turned to untested Larry Farmer and Walt Hazzard to try to reclaim their past glory, but they did not win again until they hired Harrick.

The irony in all this is that they had a perfect replacement in former assistant Denny Crum, who had been coaching Louisville for four years and had taken them to the Final Four twice (even losing to UCLA by one in the 1975 semi-final). The main problem was money since UCLA expected the new coach to accept a salary as low as Coach Wooden's ($35,000). Fortunately, I don't think that money will be an issue when Coach K steps down.

JG Nothing
08-05-2010, 09:35 AM
Mike Brey and -- before that -- Pete Gaudet, who came with him from Army.

sagegrouse

That's my point. After adding Brey to the coaching staff in 1987 (23 years ago), K has only hired former players as assistant coaches.

Duvall
08-05-2010, 09:47 AM
That's my point. After adding Brey to the coaching staff in 1987 (23 years ago), K has only hired former players as assistant coaches.

Tim O'Toole in 1997. No one since then, but then Duke has only hired four assistants during that span. It's also worth noting that Duke's next head coach won't be hired by Mike Krzyzewski.

JG Nothing
08-05-2010, 10:01 AM
Tim O'Toole in 1997. No one since then, but then Duke has only hired four assistants during that span. It's also worth noting that Duke's next head coach won't be hired by Mike Krzyzewski.

I forgot about O'Toole. Anyone have a list of Duke assistants under K?

K certainly won't be hiring his replacement but I would be surprised if he does not have significant input and an informal veto.

Johnboy
08-05-2010, 10:22 AM
Tim O'Toole in 1997. No one since then, but then Duke has only hired four assistants during that span. It's also worth noting that Duke's next head coach won't be hired by Mike Krzyzewski.

Mike Jarvis II wasn't an assistant coach, but he was on the staff 2004-2006, IIRC.
Chris Spatola, likewise, but he's family in a different way.

formerdukeathlete
08-05-2010, 01:16 PM
While he wont have NBA player experience, the guy who may be most like K in terms of drive, outlook, intelligence, competitiveness, outright will, may be Greg Paulus. Greg may have had more football left, in Canada, arena, even another shot at the NFL, but he went about landing a D-1 assistant coaching job. He is, must be truly driven in that regard. Time will tell, as to who has what record where. Clearly, Greg would have needed to have been a head coach by the time K retires. That's going to be 10 or more years away. So there is time for all this to play out. Jeff Capel might not want the Duke job at that point. And you could go down the list as to which Duke alums who have been successful head coaches would want to come back to Durham. Greg will be mid thirties to forties.

SoCalDukeFan
08-05-2010, 01:50 PM
That's my point. After adding Brey to the coaching staff in 1987 (23 years ago), K has only hired former players as assistant coaches.

By hiring former players, K hires assistants who know his system and routine. He does not have to spend team teaching the assistants the system.

The next head coach will bring in his own system. It may be like K's but not identical.

I hope Duke hires someone who has proven that they can do the job. Ideally there will several with Duke connections to chose from. If not, best they can find.

SoCal

gam7
08-05-2010, 02:12 PM
While he wont have NBA player experience, the guy who may be most like K in terms of drive, outlook, intelligence, competitiveness, outright will, may be Greg Paulus. Greg may have had more football left, in Canada, arena, even another shot at the NFL, but he went about landing a D-1 assistant coaching job. He is, must be truly driven in that regard. Time will tell, as to who has what record where. Clearly, Greg would have needed to have been a head coach by the time K retires. That's going to be 10 or more years away. So there is time for all this to play out. Jeff Capel might not want the Duke job at that point. And you could go down the list as to which Duke alums who have been successful head coaches would want to come back to Durham. Greg will be mid thirties to forties.

It does seem as though Greg is driven and an extremely hard worker. It also seemed clear that he wanted (and did) take on a leadership role while playing. I definitely give him credit for that. But, in just watching him on the court as a player, it just seemed to me like he was trying just a little too hard to lead. It felt to me that he would act and do what he thought a leader "should" be doing or tried to look like what a leader "should" look like on the court or bench. He didn't come off to me as having natural charisma, which I think would really help as a big-time college coach (and what I would want in Duke's next coach).

I don't know Greg personally and haven't played basketball or football with him, and no one has ever confused me with Tony Robbins, but that's just my impression. Also, I should mention that while I really like Jeff Capel now, and barring something unforeseen would love to see him at least be considered as a successor, I don't think I saw him as a good future coach when he was playing (despite his pedigree).

jjh1080
08-05-2010, 02:24 PM
Well, I think, when discussing such things, most things, we need to make sure everyone comes from the same perspective otherwise things can get out of hand quickly and easily.

As with this conversation one should define what they mean by "family." When I refer to the Duke family I'm thinking of someone who played for Duke, became an assistant early on and grow up in the Duke system.

An assistant might be considered a "friend" of the family if, after their early years of coaching, they came to the program and then established themselves with that program.

A family member might be Johnny D who played for Duke, became as assistant when he broke into the college coaching ranks and spent many years there. He might have branched out by becoming a head coach at Standford but his history says he is a part of the Duke family.

Izzo is a prime example of what I would refer to as a "friend" of the family. He went to college in Northern Michigan and started as a college assistant there. Then he went to MSU then Tulsa and back to MSU before he became the head coach at MSU.

A coach like Capel muddies things up. He played for Duke but was not an assistant for Duke. He gets most of his coaching advise from his father who coached many years as a college coach, at Old Dominion University. I'm sure a time or two he has reached out to Coach K but most of his coaching advise comes from his father. Would one refer him as "family?"

Thus, if Capel was considered by one as "family" it opens up who one would consider as a "family" candidate.

With my definition of "family" I would think Johnny D has the best shot for a "family" member to get the job but I think he needs to prove himself at Stanford first. If Capel should do much better, if, and he gets the job, by my definition, he isn't family. If two people have different definitions of "family" their discussion can get very confusing.

Also, Coach K might have meant that, at the time Johnny D took the Stanford job, that Johnny D was to be his successor but this might change things. Before I jump on what the AD at Standford said I would want to get clarification for Coach K.

This could be just talking to a German (I'm German by the way). German's are known to say "Go ahead back up." What does that really mean "go ahead and then back up" or does it mean "its okay to back up?"

sagegrouse
08-06-2010, 07:37 AM
This could be just talking to a German (I'm German by the way). German's are known to say "Go ahead back up." What does that really mean "go ahead and then back up" or does it mean "its okay to back up?"

Of course, Americans like to say, "Turn left, right here." ;)

The French, moreover, have the adjective "droit, droite," which can mean either "straight" or "right." The distinction in usage tends to be lost on tin-eared foreigners like me: "Allez tout droit" vs. "tournez a droite."

sagegrouse

sagegrouse
08-06-2010, 11:02 AM
There are three classes of questions about K's successor.

1. Will Duke insist on a coach with succeessful D-1 head coaching experience or would it consider promoting someone from the bench? Duke is one of the three or four leading basketball programs in the country and draws a tremendous of interest from media and fans alike. This ain't no "learning on the job" situation. Moreover, Duke has seen the benefits first-hand in football of hiring someone who knows how to run a Program (with a capital P) as well as how to coach. Cut is approximately 100 times as impressive as his predecessors, and I supported hiring Roof for his leadership skills. OTOH, UNC and Georgetown and Indiana all promoted from within when their legends left or retired. I would look for a proven head coach that can handle not only the coaching and the management of the program but also the media circus that seems to surround Duke basketball.

2. Must the new head coach be part of the "Duke family," however jjh1080 defines it? No question that, if JD has a successful run at Stanford, he will have a leg up 3on the job. But otherwise, I can't imagine why Duke would insist on going for one of its own. But that probably depends a bit on question #3....

3. What role will K play in picking his successor? I have written about this before, and there are three models he can choose from. The Smith-Thompson model of ensuring that a long-time assistant gets the job by quitting either during the season or just before it starts. No way K does this IMHO (where the H is often silent). The second model is complete hands off -- go on a world tour while the search takes place, for example, and return to congratulate the person picked. Third is the "behind-the-scenes" advisor role, offering his opinion, when asked, to the AD and the search committee on specific candidates and helping sell the top candidates on the job. This doesn't have to be meddlesome, and it won't if K is involved. Dunno. Probably some version of three, although I wouldn't be surprised if K took the around-the-world tour after giving a brief summary of his views on potential candidates.

sagegrouse

Brian913
08-07-2010, 07:11 AM
Hiring a new coach is always a gamble.

You can get a guy who looks great on paper and he turns out to be a bust. Todd Lickliter for example who did a great job at Butler and was a complete flop at Iowa (those promoting Brad Stevens should take note,) Billy Gillespie, several recently fired ACC coaches. Past head coaching experience is no guarantee of future results.

You can pick a nobody. Someone who had mediocre results at a mediocre basketball school and get great results. K for example.

You can take someone with no head coaching experience and win, Izzo is one.

What you can't expect is that anyone who is hired will be K's equal. That's just not going to happen.

jjh1080
08-08-2010, 08:47 AM
Of course, Americans like to say, "Turn left, right here." ;)

sagegrouse

Nice!

I'd like to know how many programs had a successful coach depart and then the new coach maintain the success?

Clarification is needed. What does one consider a successful coach? What is considered maintained success?

To me a "successful coach" is one who wins at least 1 national title and at least 5 conference titles. To be considered "maintained success" one has to continue to win conference titles and make deep runs (elite 8's) in the last years of the following 5 years.

UNC for example had success for the following 2 years after Dean and then things fell apart. And UNC kept the coaching in the family. To me, after the players Dean got time to coach left things fell apart. I think the same could be said for UCLA after Wooden left. Not absolutely sure though.

Thus, I would conclude, Duke's success will not be maintained after Coach K departs unless they get another high profile coach. Who? I don't know, I'm not sure there is someone high profile enough.

-jk
08-08-2010, 09:26 AM
Nice!

I'd like to know how many programs had a successful coach depart and then the new coach maintain the success?

Clarification is needed. What does one consider a successful coach? What is considered maintained success?

To me a "successful coach" is one who wins at least 1 national title and at least 5 conference titles. To be considered "maintained success" one has to continue to win conference titles and make deep runs (elite 8's) in the last years of the following 5 years.

UNC for example had success for the following 2 years after Dean and then things fell apart. And UNC kept the coaching in the family. To me, after the players Dean got time to coach left things fell apart. I think the same could be said for UCLA after Wooden left. Not absolutely sure though.

Thus, I would conclude, Duke's success will not be maintained after Coach K departs unless they get another high profile coach. Who? I don't know, I'm not sure there is someone high profile enough.

That's a remarkably high bar. You're suggesting there are a dozen successful coaches in Div 1. Total.

I think your definition of success might more closely align with hall of fame status.

-jk

Duvall
08-08-2010, 11:40 AM
That's a remarkably high bar. You're suggesting there are a dozen successful coaches in Div 1. Total.

Seven, by my count - Krzyzewski, Roy Williams, Self, Calhoun, Boeheim, Izzo and Pitino. It would be nine if the SEC considered the winner of the SEC Tournament to be its conference champion, but it doesn't.

moonpie23
08-09-2010, 07:47 AM
does anyone think it will be the "post roy era" before or after it's the "Post K era" ?


http://ui32.gamespot.com/479/702headbanginstick_4.gif

killerleft
08-09-2010, 09:13 AM
Hiring a new coach is always a gamble.

You can get a guy who looks great on paper and he turns out to be a bust. Todd Lickliter for example who did a great job at Butler and was a complete flop at Iowa (those promoting Brad Stevens should take note,) Billy Gillespie, several recently fired ACC coaches. Past head coaching experience is no guarantee of future results.

You can pick a nobody. Someone who had mediocre results at a mediocre basketball school and get great results. K for example.

You can take someone with no head coaching experience and win, Izzo is one.

What you can't expect is that anyone who is hired will be K's equal. That's just not going to happen.

That's well said. For me, I say get the (hopefully) best fit for Duke from all available candidates. But I can see the point of those who would hire from within the "family", too, though. Since no hire guarantees anything, why not get someone who has the benefit of learning from K?

Just like everybody else, we'll be spinnin' that Wheel of Fortune. Who can guess where Duke or Coach K would be today if Johnny Dawkins had signed somewhere else?