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BD80
08-04-2010, 01:40 PM
Any coach that would part ways with such a talented kid who would be head and shoulders above the bar at most schools (yes, I am talking to you Coach Cal) under these circumstances deserves kudos. The kid even admits he didn't get it done!


"Coach was straight-forward with me about what I needed to do to remain a part of the team. Unfortunately, I didnít meet all the obligations," Allen said. "... Itís unfortunate things didnít work out, but Iím leaving on good terms with my teammates and coaches."

http://gary-parrish.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/23629370?tag=headlines;other

johnb
08-04-2010, 02:01 PM
Izzo may be a great coach, but kicking a player off the team when he has apparently been a difficult teammate doesn't necessarily mean he's a great coach. Given the reality that MSU is very talented (talented enough that they may be co-favorites to win the NCAA), losing this guy may be addition by subtraction.

dukemsu
08-04-2010, 04:59 PM
The Allen situation is sad, all the way around. There are at least 10 different stories as to what happened, and it'll probably never really be known to the public.

Izzo didn't want to do this. There's no way State is as good a team without Allen than they would be with him. For whatever reason, he felt he didn't have a choice. Hopefully Allen can get himself together and have a good senior year somewhere (the early rumor has him playing for Izzo disciple Heath at South Florida) and maybe play overseas.

In terms of Izzo's coaching acumen, there are better recruiters (Roy, Cal) and better overall program guys (K). I wouldn't say he's the best game-day coach, but I don't think there's one better. He's on the top line for sure with several others.

dukemsu

WiJoe
08-04-2010, 05:24 PM
Boo-hoo. ANother guy with a *Napoleon complex.


* = The condition of being small in stature but aggressively ambitious and seeking absolute control.

:D

dukemsu
08-04-2010, 05:29 PM
Boo-hoo. ANother guy with a *Napoleon complex.


* = The condition of being small in stature but aggressively ambitious and seeking absolute control.

:D

Don't know if I'd go that far, Joe. I'm just saying that throwing a guy off the team doesn't make a guy a good coach. Izzo is a great coach obviously, and perfect for MSU (in part due to the permanent chip on his shoulder, which is frankly necessary to compete with UM on a daily basis in Michigan), but he's not infallible, which I'm sure you'd agree with. I don't think he handled either his NBA flirtation or the Allen situation particularly well at all.

dukemsu

Cockabeau
08-04-2010, 09:33 PM
no..not really. He is not even better than Roy. The second best coach alive is Jay Wright-imo

Duvall
08-04-2010, 09:35 PM
The second best coach alive is Jay Wright-imo

Based on what, exactly?

flyingdutchdevil
08-05-2010, 05:31 AM
no..not really. He is not even better than Roy. The second best coach alive is Jay Wright-imo

I love these one-liners without the evidence...they make me laugh

MisterRoddy
08-05-2010, 05:37 AM
no..not really. He is not even better than Roy. The second best coach alive is Jay Wright-imo

Couldn't be his multiple National Championships could it? Let alone one for that matter.

sagegrouse
08-05-2010, 08:29 AM
The second best coach alive is Jay Wright-imo

I thought jay Wright did a fine job of displaying his instinct for the capillary, when -- while losing by thirteen points at Georgetown -- he called timeout with 0.8 seconds left, depriving Duke fans from watching another two minutes of the game with Boston College.

He also proved he was just as good as Coach K at handling Taylor King.

sagegrouse

DukeSean
08-05-2010, 09:44 AM
He also proved he was just as good as Coach K at handling Taylor King.

sagegrouse

I like starting off my day with a nice chuckle and smile. Thanks, Sagegrouse!

badgerbd
08-05-2010, 11:00 AM
In terms of Izzo's coaching acumen, there are better recruiters (Roy, Cal) and better overall program guys (K). I wouldn't say he's the best game-day coach, but I don't think there's one better. He's on the top line for sure with several others.

dukemsu

He's done very well in the tournament. IMO, this is partly just luck and partly due to the style of team he has. But I've always felt people put too much emphasis on the tournament.

He took a team that went to the championship game the year before, lost little in terms of players, to a five seed this year. Is that anything other than a poor job? (yes, they probably deserved a four seed, but still). Yet because of a final four run he's heaped with praise. A rather unimpressive final four run at that.

dukemsu
08-05-2010, 11:28 AM
He's done very well in the tournament. IMO, this is partly just luck and partly due to the style of team he has. But I've always felt people put too much emphasis on the tournament.

He took a team that went to the championship game the year before, lost little in terms of players, to a five seed this year. Is that anything other than a poor job? (yes, they probably deserved a four seed, but still). Yet because of a final four run he's heaped with praise. A rather unimpressive final four run at that.

Ah, Badgers upset with Izzo. Old bit. Guess Bo has just been unlucky in the tournament, unless you count his run in Divison III.

Considering State's injury situation (Lucas gone, Roe on one leg, Allen on one foot), the '10 Final Four run may have been his most impressive. And it's not State's fault KU lost to Northern Iowa. You can only beat who is put in front of you in tournament play. Sure, KU would have throttled State. But they didn't get there. Them's the breaks.

Saying Izzo did a poor job last year is straight-up nonsense. To answer your question, it was far from a poor job.

dukemsu

BD80
08-05-2010, 11:31 AM
Izzo may be a great coach, but kicking a player off the team when he has apparently been a difficult teammate doesn't necessarily mean he's a great coach. Given the reality that MSU is very talented (talented enough that they may be co-favorites to win the NCAA), losing this guy may be addition by subtraction.

Allen was actually being counted on to be a senior leader on the team. He had developed into a VERY good perimeter defender. Although there is a talented rising soph, can't remember his name, who would have eaten many of Allen's minutes, Allen was the guy Izzo would have had on the floor in close games at the end. Understand that Allen was still qualified to play, he just didn't do the things Izzo required of him to return.

In the long run, the action is better for the TEAM because the players know that they must live up to a standard, and they know that Izzo is a man of his word. Not many coaches would take a stand like that with a key player.

Let's compare. What would Calhoun have done?

Or ol' roy? He sure got rid of the difficult teammates before last season's team melted-down. Oh wait, he completely lost that team - to the point the two Wears, McD AAs who were solid 4-yr guys who worked hard, bailed on ol' roy. Good coaches don't pilot teams into a fiery wreck like that. I bet Izzo would have gotten a lot more out of the heels last year than ol' roy got.

As for best living coaches not beginning with the letter "K," Izzo's body of work certainly places him in the top 3, and I'll stick with my assessment of #1.

badgerbd
08-05-2010, 11:46 AM
Ah, Badgers upset with Izzo. Old bit. Guess Bo has just been unlucky in the tournament, unless you count his run in Divison III.

Considering State's injury situation (Lucas gone, Roe on one leg, Allen on one foot), the '10 Final Four run may have been his most impressive. And it's not State's fault KU lost to Northern Iowa. You can only beat who is put in front of you in tournament play. Sure, KU would have throttled State. But they didn't get there. Them's the breaks.

Saying Izzo did a poor job last year is straight-up nonsense. To answer your question, it was far from a poor job.

dukemsu

I've got nothing against Izzo (nor am I pro UWisc, fwiw, I just happened to live in the state when I picked my name), but I do think he's a bit over rated - mainly due to people putting way too much emphasis on final fours, imo.

I had forgotten the injuries during the tournament, but I still wouldn't call it an impressive run.
I don't blame anyone for that. To their credit they took advantage of the opportunity, but it just wasn't that awe inspiring. Regardless that's judging the season a success based on barely winning three or four games (against No Iowa, Maryland, and Tenn).

Looking at the rest of the season a five seed (or a four seed) was a definite disappointment.
I'm around plenty of msu fans now and I think it's fair to say the consensus through Feb was
that the team was underachieving.

flyingdutchdevil
08-05-2010, 12:02 PM
I've got nothing against Izzo (nor am I pro UWisc, fwiw, I just happened to live in the state when I picked my name), but I do think he's a bit over rated - mainly due to people putting way too much emphasis on final fours, imo.

I had forgotten the injuries during the tournament, but I still wouldn't call it an impressive run.
I don't blame anyone for that. To their credit they took advantage of the opportunity, but it just wasn't that awe inspiring. Regardless that's judging the season a success based on barely winning three or four games (against No Iowa, Maryland, and Tenn).

Looking at the rest of the season a five seed (or a four seed) was a definite disappointment.
I'm around plenty of msu fans now and I think it's fair to say the consensus through Feb was
that the team was underachieving.

I would certainly agree with Badger on the tournament coach aspect. If we're talking about the best tournament coaches, then Izzo is right up there with the best of them. If we're talking about coaches in general, then it's a completely different matter. I think regular season results, tourney results, recruiting, player development, and a whole variety of other factors need to be considered for best (or second best) active coach.

ice-9
08-05-2010, 12:04 PM
Based on what, exactly?

I believe it was based on his opinion. ;)