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ksimp112
08-01-2010, 09:01 PM
What record is everyone looking forward to possibly be broken next year?

1. Coach K passing Dean Smith with wins?
2. Coach K passing Bob Knight with wins?
3. Kyle Singler becoming the all time leading scorer in Duke history?
4. Kyle Singler becoming the all time leading scorer in ACC history?

I would love for all of them to happen next season.

SilkyJ
08-01-2010, 09:04 PM
GREAT thread. Make it a poll!

My vote: Coach K passing the Bobby. Passing the deaner will be sweet, but nothing beats being numero uno.

I guess this is the perfect time to start the "Kyle Singler quest for ~2,400 points" thread. JJ really isn't in range (over 1000 points), but I think he'll pass Laettner.

PPG to pass laettner:
33 games:21ppg
34: 20.4ppg
35: 19.8ppg
36: 19.3
37: 18.7

Kyle averaged 17.7ppg last year.

CameronBornAndBred
08-01-2010, 09:06 PM
What record is everyone looking forward to possibly be broken next year?

1. Coach K passing Dean Smith with wins?
2. Coach K passing Bob Knight with wins?
3. Kyle Singler becoming the all time leading scorer in Duke history?
4. Kyle Singler becoming the all time leading scorer in ACC history?

I would love for all of them to happen next season.
K passing Knight, it means a deep tourney run. Honestly, whether it happens next year or not that's the one I'm most looking forward to anyways. I'm sure Knight has accepted it will happen, and since it's going to happen that will be an amazing moment to know for BK that it goes on to the man that he mentored. I'm sure it will be a very emotional moment for both of them.

SilkyJ
08-01-2010, 09:55 PM
PPG to pass laettner:
33 games:21ppg
34: 20.4ppg
35: 19.8ppg
36: 19.3
37: 18.7
38: 18.2
39: 17.8
40: 17.3


Little more homework above and below

PPG to pass Dawkins:

33 games: 23.9ppg
34: 23.2
35: 22.5
36: 21.9
37: 21.3
38: 20.8
39: 20.2
40: 19.7

JJ is basically out of reach. If we played 40 games this year, which is how many we played last year, Kyle would need to average 25.05ppg. Would be a pleasant surprise, but I think 20-21ppg is reasonable, and to expect more than that would seem pretty high to me. He was highly featured last year, obviously, and that was on a team with limited scoring threats. Kyrie, Nolan, and Kyle will be our big 3 this year (though I dont expect Kyrie to top Jon's PPG average from last year) and the MPs along with Curry, Dre, and Ryan provide significant upgrades in low-post scoring and bench scoring as compared to last year. Of course, this team will play much more uptempo and so that combined with the expected year-over-year improvement leads me to think he'll see a bump from his 17.7ppg average, but not more than a couple points.


So I think he'll pass Laettner and Dawkins will be in range, especially if we make deep runs in the ACC and NCAAs, as expected.

Silky "Who wants to look at Kyle's rebounds and blocks numbers and who wants to start a Nolan's chase for 2000 points thread?!"

airowe
08-01-2010, 10:06 PM
Silky "Who wants to look at Kyle's rebounds and blocks numbers and who wants to start a Nolan's chase for 2000 points thread?!"

I actually looked at this yesterday and found some interesting stats within reach for Kyle:

http://dukehoop.blogspot.com/2010/07/where-nolan-and-kyle-might-rank-after.html

JohnGalt
08-02-2010, 03:32 AM
I actually looked at this yesterday and found some interesting stats within reach for Kyle:

http://dukehoop.blogspot.com/2010/07/where-nolan-and-kyle-might-rank-after.html

Good write up, Airowe. Not to deviate too much, but what is the minimum number of assists required in order to qualify for the "All-time A:T" list at Duke? Is there a number?

I'd have to vote for passing the Dean. The points are special and - like Silky mentioned - it's hard to argue with Numero Uno, but whenever K does finally pass Dean it's...just...going...to...be...so...sweet...

As a side note...I noticed that UNC's season this past year dropped Roy's career coaching percentage below .800. Certainly enjoyed that...

DevilWearsPrada
08-02-2010, 08:56 AM
Break as many records as possible and win another National Championship!!!! Breaking records and hanging banners!!!! Great write up!!!

airowe
08-02-2010, 09:21 AM
Good write up, Airowe. Not to deviate too much, but what is the minimum number of assists required in order to qualify for the "All-time A:T" list at Duke? Is there a number?

I'm not really sure about the minimum number, I'll have to look into it. I got all my numbers from the Duke Media Guide, maybe it says something in there.


I'd have to vote for passing the Dean. The points are special and - like Silky mentioned - it's hard to argue with Numero Uno, but whenever K does finally pass Dean it's...just...going...to...be...so...sweet...

Yep, and it should happen rather early on, and likely on Coach K Court.


As a side note...I noticed that UNC's season this past year dropped Roy's career coaching percentage below .800. Certainly enjoyed that...

Let's hope that continues to dip.....

OZZIE4DUKE
08-02-2010, 09:40 AM
What record is everyone looking forward to possibly be broken next year?

1. Coach K passing Dean Smith with wins?
2. Coach K passing Bob Knight with wins?
3. Kyle Singler becoming the all time leading scorer in Duke history?
4. Kyle Singler becoming the all time leading scorer in ACC history?

I would love for all of them to happen next season.
The number one record I want broken is Duke's 4 National Championships. Get #5 and #1 and #2 will follow! :cool:

devildeac
08-02-2010, 09:54 AM
The number one record I want broken is Duke's 4 National Championships. Get #5 and #1 and #2 will follow! :cool:

Not quite. #1 happens early. If #2 happens, we've had a really long and satisfying season and a reasonably high likelihood for #5 to follow/happen, just like it did this year with 35 wins:D.

The additional significance of #5, if/when it occurs, will be to break the "logjam" at the 2nd position for coaches with the most MBB NC and vault into a tie with the school-down-the-road in that category, bakery awards notwithstanding:rolleyes:.

UrinalCake
08-02-2010, 10:17 AM
I hate to get so giddy this early before the season even starts, but I think this team has the potential to put up some serious points. Can anyone dig up the record for points scored in a season? I think we have a shot at that. Our 98 and 99 teams averaged close to 90 a game if I recall correctly.

Also, if there is a stat for "percentage of field goals that come from dunks," I think Mason could break it this year 8-)

Olympic Fan
08-02-2010, 10:33 AM
Interesting thread. Goals I'd like to see accomplished (in the order I rate their importance):

(1) win Duke -- and Coach K's -- fifth national title. For the school, this would allow Duke to tie Indiana and UNC for third place on the alltime list (behind UCLA-11; Kentucky-7). For Coach K, it would break the tie with Rupp and give him second place all by himself (behind Wooden at 10 titles).

(2) win Duke's 19th -- and Coach K's 13th -- ACC championship. That would widen Duke's lead in ACC titles over UNC (17 titles) and it would allow Coach K to tie Dean Smith with 13 titles.

(3) win a regional championship (which means reaching the Final Four): It would be Duke's 16th, second all-time to UNC at 18. It would be Coach K's 12th -- breaking his tie with Dean Smith at 11 and tying John Wooden at 12 for first place alltime.

(4) win the ACC regular season championship: not as important as the official ACC championship, won in the tourney, but an accomplishment nevertheless

I list these goals first, since they are championships ... and I believe you ALWAYS play for championships first.

Lessor team goals include winning 30-plus games for the 12th time (Duke's 11 30-win seasons are already No. 1 in NCAA history) and finishing No. 1 in the final AP poll for the eighth time.

The top individual goals:

(1) For Singler to become Duke's ninth consensus national player of the year.

(2) For Smith to become a consensus first-time All-American

(3) For K to pass Rupp for third place on the coaching list (needs nine wins); Smith for second place (needs 12 wins) and Knight for first place (needs 35 wins). I list this third because all of those things WILL happen sooner or later. Although if the first two don't happen this year, it will be a disastrous year. The last isn't vital THIS YEAR. K could still win 33 games this year and we could accomplish our big goals.

(4) Any individual statistical goals -- Singler needs to get 2,000 points, which he will if he stays healthy. After that, it's no big deal if he catches Laettner or even Dawkins on the scoring list. His place in Duke history will be defined by his 1 or 2 national championships, not by his cumulative point total. It would be neat if Nolan made a run at 2,000 points, but it's not likely to happen (he needs 853 to get there ... that would be the second-highest single season total in Duke history).

Finally: I would like to see Austin Rivers sign with Duke in November, then I would selfishly hope that Kyrie Irving and Mason Plumlee play well enough to be certain NBA lottery picks ... but that both decide to return to Duke for the 2011-12 season so they can try to win a third national title in a row.

Do all these things and 2011 will be a perfect season.

Duvall
08-02-2010, 10:37 AM
I actually looked at this yesterday and found some interesting stats within reach for Kyle:

http://dukehoop.blogspot.com/2010/07/where-nolan-and-kyle-might-rank-after.html

Good post, but I think you may be a little off with Singler's rebounds.


I was surprised to find out that Kyle would have to beat his best rebounding season total by 20 boards just to move into the Top 20 career rebounders at Duke.

I have Singler already at 762 rebounds, already enough for 17th all-time at Duke. If he matches his 280 rebounds from last season it give him a total of 1042, for 6th all-time at Duke. That said, it may be tough to reach last year's numbers, since Singler played about as many minutes as physically possible last season.

airowe
08-02-2010, 10:47 AM
Good post, but I think you may be a little off with Singler's rebounds.



I have Singler already at 762 rebounds, already enough for 17th all-time at Duke. If he matches his 280 rebounds from last season it give him a total of 1042, for 6th all-time at Duke. That said, it may be tough to reach last year's numbers, since Singler played about as many minutes as physically possible last season.

Thanks for the correction Duvall, that explains my surprise. Kyle has a chance to make a strong run at some lofty numbers in Duke history, but as Olympic Fan points out, he will be judged more by his tournament wins than individual accolades. Still, what do we remember JJ for more, isn't it his scoring prowess moreso than his tournament resume?

nocilla
08-02-2010, 10:51 AM
Thanks for the correction Duvall, that explains my surprise. Kyle has a chance to make a strong run at some lofty numbers in Duke history, but as Olympic Fan points out, he will be judged more by his tournament wins than individual accolades. Still, what do we remember JJ for more, isn't it his scoring prowess moreso than his tournament resume?

Only because his tourney resume is a little lackluster. If he had won a Championship it might be different.

uh_no
08-02-2010, 10:51 AM
s. Still, what do we remember JJ for more, isn't it his scoring prowess moreso than his tournament resume?

JJ's tournament resume isn't much to be remembered......if he had brought home the bacon certainly it would be more lauded than his point scoring......what do people remember laettner more for? huge numbers? or hitting a game winning shot enroute to a national title?

flyingdutchdevil
08-02-2010, 10:58 AM
Also, if there is a stat for "percentage of field goals that come from dunks," I think Mason could break it this year 8-)

That seems pretty hard to beat after McBob's freshman year. Considering that MP2 has expanded his offensive arsenal, I hope the % of dunks is minimal!

Olympic Fan
08-02-2010, 11:02 AM
Good post, but I think you may be a little off with Singler's rebounds.



I have Singler already at 762 rebounds, already enough for 17th all-time at Duke. If he matches his 280 rebounds from last season it give him a total of 1042, for 6th all-time at Duke. That said, it may be tough to reach last year's numbers, since Singler played about as many minutes as physically possible last season.

Duvall, your numbers are right -- Kyle needs 238 rebounds (a total he's topped the last two years) to get to 1,000 career rebounds. Assuming he gets to 2,000 career points (he needs 233 there), he'll become just the fourth Duke player (along with Gminski, Laettner and Ferry) to be a 2,000 point/1,000 rebound guy.

Not sure I agree about his total going down (unless Duke flames in postseason and plays less games).

While I agree that his minutes-played might decline slightly (but only slightly), I think the tempo of the games will increase as Duke plays a faster pace -- which means more missed shots and more rebounds.

It's worth nothing that Kyle actually averaged more rebounds as a sophomore, playing less minutes, than he did as a junior (about the only statistical drop in his game) -- a drop I attribute to his switch from post position to wing and Duke's slower tempo (Duke games averaged 138 points a game in 2010 ... 143 a game in 2009.

I'm guessing we'll play at a tempo closer to the Jason Williams' years, when Duke games averaged 160 points a game, or the Hurley years, when Duke was also at 160 points a game for four years.

That means a lot more missed shots and a lot more rebounds.

Bluedevil114
08-02-2010, 11:19 AM
JJ's tournament resume isn't much to be remembered......if he had brought home the bacon certainly it would be more lauded than his point scoring......what do people remember laettner more for? huge numbers? or hitting a game winning shot enroute to a national title?

That depends on if you are asking a Kentucky fan or anyone else. In Kentucky they would rather see Laettner as a "bully" stomping on their chests.

uh_no
08-02-2010, 11:27 AM
That depends on if you are asking a Kentucky fan or anyone else. In Kentucky they would rather see Laettner as a "bully" stomping on their chests.

i mean.....he did.....in my most honest opinion, he should have been ejected.....

Duvall
08-02-2010, 12:50 PM
Duvall, your numbers are right -- Kyle needs 238 rebounds (a total he's topped the last two years) to get to 1,000 career rebounds. Assuming he gets to 2,000 career points (he needs 233 there), he'll become just the fourth Duke player (along with Gminski, Laettner and Ferry) to be a 2,000 point/1,000 rebound guy.

If we're going to track a round number for Singler this year, this should probably be the one. By my count there have been only nine 2000 point/1000 rebound players in ACC history - Hansbrough, Hemric, Laettner, Gminski, Sampson, Perkins, Duncan, Chappell and Ferry. (That list is circumscribed by freshman ineligibility and early departures, but it's still a good list to be on.)


Not sure I agree about his total going down (unless Duke flames in postseason and plays less games).

While I agree that his minutes-played might decline slightly (but only slightly), I think the tempo of the games will increase as Duke plays a faster pace -- which means more missed shots and more rebounds.

It's worth nothing that Kyle actually averaged more rebounds as a sophomore, playing less minutes, than he did as a junior (about the only statistical drop in his game) -- a drop I attribute to his switch from post position to wing and Duke's slower tempo (Duke games averaged 138 points a game in 2010 ... 143 a game in 2009.

I'm guessing we'll play at a tempo closer to the Jason Williams' years, when Duke games averaged 160 points a game, or the Hurley years, when Duke was also at 160 points a game for four years.

That means a lot more missed shots and a lot more rebounds.

A fair point. I'm just superstitious about assuming that Duke will play the maximum number of postseason games again next year.

dukelifer
08-02-2010, 01:28 PM
That seems pretty hard to beat after McBob's freshman year. Considering that MP2 has expanded his offensive arsenal, I hope the % of dunks is minimal!

I hope the % of MISSED dunks is minimal. He may have set a record last year for spectacular dunks that were missed.;)

CDu
08-02-2010, 01:45 PM
What record is everyone looking forward to possibly be broken next year?

1. Coach K passing Dean Smith with wins?
2. Coach K passing Bob Knight with wins?
3. Kyle Singler becoming the all time leading scorer in Duke history?
4. Kyle Singler becoming the all time leading scorer in ACC history?

I would love for all of them to happen next season.

1. Almost a given. Perhaps that happens before 2011 begins?
2. That would be awesome, as it would mean a deep tournament run.
3. There's virtually no chance of this happening. He'd have to score 1,003 points. That'd mean we'd have to play 40 games, and he'd have to raise his scoring average by over 7 points per game.
4. There's even less than no chance of this happening, as Hansbrough is another 100 points beyond Redick. So he'd have to have a Redick-like senior year (unlikely with the scoring depth we'll have) AND we'd have to play in every game possible.

4decadedukie
08-02-2010, 02:58 PM
I respectfully offer a caution re Kyle. He is a GREAT player, student-athlete, and Dukie; we all tremendously respect and admire him (and his many contributions to Duke and Duke Basketball). However, as the senior LEADER throughout the impending season, I want him to enable and to ensure victories on a team-wide basis, even if it somewhat reduces his individual numbers. I am sure Kyle would agree that most important objective in the 2010-2011 campaign is a fifth National Championship.

uh_no
08-02-2010, 03:04 PM
I respectfully offer a caution re Kyle. He is a GREAT player, student-athlete, and Dukie; we all tremendously respect and admire him (and his many contributions to Duke and Duke Basketball). However, as the senior LEADER throughout the impending season, I want him to enable and to ensure victories on a team-wide basis, even if it somewhat reduces his individual numbers. I am sure Kyle would agree that most important objective in the 2010-2011 campaign is a fifth National Championship.

I'm not sure what your saying here....perhaps that kyle isn't a team player? and to that I say, have you watched him the past 3 years?

as to your assertion that kyle's most important objective is the national champion.....maybe....kyle's #1 objective is to get to the NBA....he's made it clear that that is his ultimate goal and that he came back because he loves duke.....I would say that his main objective is NBA, but since he is at school, his next objective is national championship.....I think he views national championship #2 as a road to the NBA and I think he would rather get to the nba by winning a second championship then get there by being NPOY, putting up huge numbers, and losing in the elite 8

JohnGalt
08-02-2010, 03:12 PM
1. Almost a given. Perhaps that happens before 2011 begins?
2. That would be awesome, as it would mean a deep tournament run.
3. There's virtually no chance of this happening. He'd have to score 1,003 points. That'd mean we'd have to play 40 games, and he'd have to raise his scoring average by over 7 points per game.
4. There's even less than no chance of this happening, as Hansbrough is another 100 points beyond Redick. So he'd have to have a Redick-like senior year (unlikely with the scoring depth we'll have) AND we'd have to play in every game possible.

I think he only needs 12, right? To get to 880?

I think it would take a great number of factors all colliding together in order for him not to catch Dean this year. We can only hope it will be at CIS...

Part of me wishes it to be against Carolina, but seeing as that would require several early losses...ehh, I'll take it whenever it comes...

UrinalCake
08-02-2010, 03:23 PM
It's worth nothing that Kyle actually averaged more rebounds as a sophomore, playing less minutes, than he did as a junior (about the only statistical drop in his game) -- a drop I attribute to his switch from post position to wing and Duke's slower tempo...

Also due to big Z cleaning things up inside. I expect Kyle's rebounds to go up slightly this year, for this plus the reasons you mentioned.

CDu
08-02-2010, 03:30 PM
I think he only needs 12, right? To get to 880?

I think it would take a great number of factors all colliding together in order for him not to catch Dean this year. We can only hope it will be at CIS...

Part of me wishes it to be against Carolina, but seeing as that would require several early losses...ehh, I'll take it whenever it comes...

Yes, he only needs 12 to pass Smith. The "almost a given" part is simply acknowledging that we shoulnd't count chickens before they hatch.

Olympic Fan
08-02-2010, 03:30 PM
I think he only needs 12, right? To get to 880?

I think it would take a great number of factors all colliding together in order for him not to catch Dean this year. We can only hope it will be at CIS...

Part of me wishes it to be against Carolina, but seeing as that would require several early losses...ehh, I'll take it whenever it comes...

The time to start figuring this is once the schedule comes out in a couple of weeks. We can count down the games until he passes (1) Rupp and (2) Dean.

Just for comparison purposes, Duke's 12th game last season was the Dec. 31 game with Penn. Of course, that was just the team's 11th win (having lost the Wisconsin game). The 12th win in 2010 came Jan. 3 against Clemson

While it's very possible Duke could open 12-0, some of Duke's best teams have lost at least one game early (including national title teams in 1991, 2001 and 2010 ... plus the 1999 juggernaut).

Interesting: I find nine Duke teams that started at least 12-0 ... but only three of them make the final four (86/89/92). Duke did it twice before K (1936 under Cameron and 1980 under Foster). K has done it seven times -- 1986, 1989, 1992, 2002, 2003, 2005 and 2006.

We'll have a better idea when the schedule comes out, but it's looking like K will get his 12th win (880th alltime) either right before or right after New Year's ... since that's usually a stretch where Duke plays at home, good chance that it will be in Cameron -- but probably not in front of the students.

uh_no
08-02-2010, 03:42 PM
We'll have a better idea when the schedule comes out, but it's looking like K will get his 12th win (880th alltime) either right before or right after New Year's ... since that's usually a stretch where Duke plays at home, good chance that it will be in Cameron -- but probably not in front of the students.

Lemme just add, as a student, most kids on campus don't really have any concept of what dean means to this rivalry.....most current students didn't know basketball or duke until the post dean era....and if they remember, they probably don't understand the significance....current seniors were 8 when he retired.......

so I think that even if it did happen in front of the students, there wouldn't be the hoopla that there will be when he hits the general.....I think it would be great if it happened over winter break when the students are gone because it would allow more people who actually understand the significance of passing dean to be in attendance

now there are probably students on this board who will oppose what i've said, but the student posters on this board are not really indicative of the average crazie (as an aside, i propose that in honor of the NCAA, any duke student on this board shall heretofore be called a 'student poster')

4decadedukie
08-02-2010, 08:28 PM
I'm not sure what your saying here....perhaps that kyle isn't a team player?

as to your assertion that kyle's most important objective is the national champion.....maybe....kyle's #1 objective is to get to the NBA...


I find it rather difficult to believe that anyone could read my post as suggesting that Kyle is not a "team player," which is precisely why I used the term "re" (meaning concerning or regarding), praised him as a "GREAT player, student-athlete, and Dukie," and said "we all tremendously respect and admire him (and his many contributions to Duke and Duke Basketball)". It is obvious to everyone that Kyle epitomizes selfless teamwork and cooperative achievement of team objectives. Further, as a team player, I suspect he would rather be picked in #10 next year's NBA draft, rather than first, if somehow it meant Duke would win the National Championship. Fortunately, his -- and our -- goals are complementary, with a top draft pick and Duke's ultimate success reinforcing each other.

Newton_14
08-02-2010, 08:52 PM
i mean.....he did.....in my most honest opinion, he should have been ejected.....

I think he did not get ejected because the ref's saw the love tap for what it was, which was not an attempt to injure. It was obvious Laettner was sending a message there, but was not trying to hurt Timberlake. That said, it was the dumbest move I have ever seen a Duke player make in a game of that magnitude. He absolutely deserved the technical.

Now, all that said, why oh why would he do something that stupid? Well, here is the part no one ever remembers or wants to talk about. I have a DVD of that game sitting 5 feet from me right now and have watched that game numerous times.

Go back and watch it sometime, especially the times Timberlake was in the game. Specifically watch from the 11 minute mark to about the 8 minute mark in the 2nd half. You will see several instances where Timberlake goes hard after Laettner including a forearm push out of bounds after a Kentucky made basket and a taunt on the same play.

Timberlake was on a mission to get under Laettner's skin that game and he succeeded and came close to changing history. Had he rolled on the floor "writhing in pain" rather than immediately clapping and laughing he just may have sold it to the ref enough to get Christian ejected.

Thankfully he was not fully successful. Was it a dumb, idiotic move by Christian? Absolutely. Did it deserve ejection in a Final 8 game? Not in my opinion, nor the ref's on that night.

Dev11
08-02-2010, 09:27 PM
Lemme just add, as a student, most kids on campus don't really have any concept of what dean means to this rivalry.....most current students didn't know basketball or duke until the post dean era....and if they remember, they probably don't understand the significance....current seniors were 8 when he retired.......

so I think that even if it did happen in front of the students, there wouldn't be the hoopla that there will be when he hits the general.....I think it would be great if it happened over winter break when the students are gone because it would allow more people who actually understand the significance of passing dean to be in attendance

now there are probably students on this board who will oppose what i've said, but the student posters on this board are not really indicative of the average crazie (as an aside, i propose that in honor of the NCAA, any duke student on this board shall heretofore be called a 'student poster')

Count me among the doubting students. I feel like when K approaches Dean, we will be inundated with news about it everywhere, and people will get it. It won't be hard to explain to others that K is passing the big-time former UNC coach in wins. Enough students recognize Christian Laettner when he comes for the Carolina game (though it helps that his daughters rock #32 shirts) that he gets big cheers from parts of the student section.

Passing Knight will mean more because it is the record, but the fact that it is Bob Knight I think would be just as 'lost' on the students because Knight was an almost irrelevant coach from about 2000 on, when he left Indiana. People who know Bob Knight also know Dean Smith.

I think it will be a rocking night in Cameron no matter when it is, when K passes Dean in wins. Let the celebration continue!

uh_no
08-02-2010, 10:01 PM
Count me among the doubting students. I feel like when K approaches Dean, we will be inundated with news about it everywhere, and people will get it. It won't be hard to explain to others that K is passing the big-time former UNC coach in wins. Enough students recognize Christian Laettner when he comes for the Carolina game (though it helps that his daughters rock #32 shirts) that he gets big cheers from parts of the student section.

Passing Knight will mean more because it is the record, but the fact that it is Bob Knight I think would be just as 'lost' on the students because Knight was an almost irrelevant coach from about 2000 on, when he left Indiana. People who know Bob Knight also know Dean Smith.

I think it will be a rocking night in Cameron no matter when it is, when K passes Dean in wins. Let the celebration continue!

Maybe....but there is no doubt in my mind that some of the people that could be there in place of the students would understand it more....it would mean something to someone who was a student while coach K battled dean twice a year.....to a lot of students, me included (in general) passing dean is just another on the list of K rising to the top where he belongs.....to the guys 10-20 years older than me, passing dean is more than just another notch in the totem pole

gofurman
08-03-2010, 12:20 AM
Maybe....but there is no doubt in my mind that some of the people that could be there in place of the students would understand it more....it would mean something to someone who was a student while coach K battled dean twice a year.....to a lot of students, me included (in general) passing dean is just another on the list of K rising to the top where he belongs.....to the guys 10-20 years older than me, passing dean is more than just another notch in the totem pole

Help me out - how many total wins does K have now?

HOw about Dean and Bobby? It is Bobby then Dean then K currently in that order, right?

JohnGalt
08-03-2010, 12:59 AM
Help me out - how many total wins does K have now?

HOw about Dean and Bobby? It is Bobby then Dean then K currently in that order, right?

He has 868 as of now.

As far as D-1 goes, it actually goes Knight, Smith, Rupp, and then K.

K needs 7 to pass Rupp, 12 to pass Dean, and 35 to pass Knight.

I believe Don Meyer won the majority of his wins at Lipscomb which is a D-1 school, but has had enough of his wins at non D-1 schools to where he's out of the picture as far as all-time D-1 wins go...I think. Don't quote me on that.

gep
08-03-2010, 01:46 AM
K needs 7 to pass Rupp, 12 to pass Dean, and 35 to pass Knight.

Rupp and Dean are "toast". Coach Knight? Well, if not this year, next year is a sure bet.:cool:

Olympic Fan
08-03-2010, 02:23 AM
He has 868 as of now.

As far as D-1 goes, it actually goes Knight, Smith, Rupp, and then K.

K needs 7 to pass Rupp, 12 to pass Dean, and 35 to pass Knight.

I believe Don Meyer won the majority of his wins at Lipscomb which is a D-1 school, but has had enough of his wins at non D-1 schools to where he's out of the picture as far as all-time D-1 wins go...I think. Don't quote me on that.

Let's get this straight because it's going to come up again as Coach K approaches the record help by Bob Knight for Division 1 record.

NEITHER DON MEYER NOR HERB MCGEE EVER COACHED A SEASON OF DIVISION 1 BASKETBALL. AND PAT SUMMITT COACHES WOMEN'S BASKETBALL.

The Official NCAA Record for men's Division 1 Coaching victories:

1. Bob Knight (Army, Indiana, Texas Tech) ... 902 wins
2. Dean Smith (North Carolina) ... 879 wins
3. Adolph Rupp (Kentucky) ... 876 wins
4. Mike Krzyzewski (Army, Duke) ... 868 wins

Don Meyer coached at Hamline (an NAIA school), Lipscomb (an NAIA school) and at Northern State (an NCAA Division II school) from 2000-10. He retired after last seasons with 923 wins.

Herb McGee, who coached at Division II Philadelphia University (known as Philadelphia School of Textile and Science until 1999) from 1967 to 2010 also has 900-plus wins -- the NCAA lists him with 907 wins after last season (he won 27 games in 2010) ... although I've seen sources that suggest he actually has more than 1,000 victories.

However many he actually has, NONE have come at the Division 1 level.

I think where you are confused is mixing up Don Meyer with Jim Phelan. Phelan retired with 830 wins at Mount St. Mary's. Most of those wins came at the Division II level, but because Mt. St. Mary's reclassified as Division 1 late in his career, the NCAA inexplicably decided to count him among the NCAA's career Division 1 leaders -- even though barely 100 of his 830 wins came at the Division 1 level.

But even that flimsy prextext doesn't apply to Meyer or McGee -- who never coached a Division 1 team.

JohnGalt
08-03-2010, 02:39 AM
Don Meyer coached at Hamline (an NAIA school), Lipscomb (an NAIA school) and at Northern State (an NCAA Division II school) from 2000-10. He retired after last seasons with 923 wins.

I think where you are confused is mixing up Don Meyer with Jim Phelan. Phelan retired with 830 wins at Mount St. Mary's. Most of those wins came at the Division II level, but because Mt. St. Mary's reclassified as Division 1 late in his career, the NCAA inexplicably decided to count him among the NCAA's career Division 1 leaders -- even though barely 100 of his 830 wins came at the Division 1 level.


Well, I didn't get Meyer and Phelan confused so much as tremendously overestimating how long Lipscomb has been D-1. It's only been 7 or 8 years ago now...oops. I thought they had been around a bit longer so you're right, Meyer doesn't have any D-1 victories let alone enough to justify placement on the all-time list. Thanks for the clarification, OF.

flyingdutchdevil
08-03-2010, 04:49 AM
I think he did not get ejected because the ref's saw the love tap for what it was, which was not an attempt to injure. It was obvious Laettner was sending a message there, but was not trying to hurt Timberlake. That said, it was the dumbest move I have ever seen a Duke player make in a game of that magnitude. He absolutely deserved the technical.

Now, all that said, why oh why would he do something that stupid? Well, here is the part no one ever remembers or wants to talk about. I have a DVD of that game sitting 5 feet from me right now and have watched that game numerous times.

Go back and watch it sometime, especially the times Timberlake was in the game. Specifically watch from the 11 minute mark to about the 8 minute mark in the 2nd half. You will see several instances where Timberlake goes hard after Laettner including a forearm push out of bounds after a Kentucky made basket and a taunt on the same play.

Timberlake was on a mission to get under Laettner's skin that game and he succeeded and came close to changing history. Had he rolled on the floor "writhing in pain" rather than immediately clapping and laughing he just may have sold it to the ref enough to get Christian ejected.

Thankfully he was not fully successful. Was it a dumb, idiotic move by Christian? Absolutely. Did it deserve ejection in a Final 8 game? Not in my opinion, nor the ref's on that night.

While I'm very glad that Laettner didn't get ejected, I'm going to echo un_no's point. If Timberlake and Laettner were reversed, I'm sure a lot of people here would have a different perception of that matter. What Laettner did, IMO, is 100% unsportsmanlike and although he didn't harm the player, when is 'stomping on someone' not grounds for ejection? I don't get that at all. All those who think Laettner didn't deserve ejection, please take off your blue glasses. Any player, including the best player on the floor who was having a perfect game, are not exempt from the rules of the game.

uh_no
08-03-2010, 08:07 AM
While I'm very glad that Laettner didn't get ejected, I'm going to echo un_no's point. If Timberlake and Laettner were reversed, I'm sure a lot of people here would have a different perception of that matter. What Laettner did, IMO, is 100% unsportsmanlike and although he didn't harm the player, when is 'stomping on someone' not grounds for ejection? I don't get that at all. All those who think Laettner didn't deserve ejection, please take off your blue glasses. Any player, including the best player on the floor who was having a perfect game, are not exempt from the rules of the game.

As a response, did anyone here not think the guy who slapped nolan deserved to be ejected last year? and all he did was slap him....laettner STOMPED on the guy

uh_no
08-03-2010, 08:08 AM
AND PAT SUMMITT COACHES WOMEN'S BASKETBALL.


clarification appreciated :P

every once in a while watching candace parker, I get confused

94duke
08-03-2010, 09:08 AM
clarification appreciated :P

every once in a while watching candace parker, I get confused

Come on. Is that really necessary?
The ":p" was ok, but to single out Candace Parker, wife of Shelden Williams, is too much.

jdj4duke
08-03-2010, 09:43 AM
I think he did not get ejected because the ref's saw the love tap for what it was, which was not an attempt to injure. It was obvious Laettner was sending a message there, but was not trying to hurt Timberlake. That said, it was the dumbest move I have ever seen a Duke player make in a game of that magnitude. He absolutely deserved the technical.


Exactly. I too have watched this game multiple times. In no way or fashion was it a "stomp". It was stupid, but not a stomp (To tread or trample heavily or violently). It is hard to see that Laettner even makes contact with anything past the ball of his foot. One would think that a stomp would at least knock the breath out of the victim, and that clearly did not happen.

I am sure that had the roles been reversed, we would have clamored for Timberlake to be ejected at that time. I also am pretty confident that watching the thing again and again, the actual lack of violence and intent would sooner rather than later have been acknowledged. And we would probably still not be yowling about it 20 years later as if it were some great cosmic injustice.

No Duke blue glasses here- it was a tap at least, a step at most, it was stupid, it was correctly called by the ref, and the appropriate penalty was assessed.

And on a related note, I have always been a bit puzzled by the minimum coverage and outrage that existed after Laettner had his skull turned into a pinata by Rod Sellers with no foul called. Sellers did though get his one game suspension the following year.

uh_no
08-03-2010, 09:53 AM
Come on. Is that really necessary?
The ":p" was ok, but to single out Candace Parker, wife of Shelden Williams, is too much.

does it matter who she's married to?

if you take offense because I singled out a player, fine. I probably shouldn't have....but to suggest that a player should be protected because they're married to an ex duke player?

Duvall
08-03-2010, 10:20 AM
does it matter who she's married to?

Yes.


if you take offense because I singled out a player, fine. I probably shouldn't have....but to suggest that a player should be protected because they're married to an ex duke player?

It's a Duke message board, comprised mostly of Duke fans.

Also, what are you talking about?

uh_no
08-03-2010, 10:32 AM
Yes.



It's a Duke message board, comprised mostly of Duke fans.



If a duke player went out and married C. Vivian Stringer, would I for ONE second consider her to be any more than the jackwagon I currently think she is?

nope

-jk
08-03-2010, 11:05 AM
back on topic, please...

-jk

magjayran
08-03-2010, 01:25 PM
No Duke blue glasses here- it was a tap at least, a step at most, it was stupid, it was correctly called by the ref, and the appropriate penalty was assessed.

And on a related note, I have always been a bit puzzled by the minimum coverage and outrage that existed after Laettner had his skull turned into a pinata by Rod Sellers with no foul called. Sellers did though get his one game suspension the following year.

I came in here to say this. I wouldn't have been mad at all if they would have given Laettner the exact same punishment although Sellers' actions probably hurt quite a bit more.

The Gordog
08-03-2010, 01:47 PM
Interesting thread. Goals I'd like to see accomplished (in the order I rate their importance):

(1) win Duke -- and Coach K's -- fifth national title. For the school, this would allow Duke to tie Indiana and UNC for third place on the alltime list (behind UCLA-11; Kentucky-7). For Coach K, it would break the tie with Rupp and give him second place all by himself (behind Wooden at 10 titles).

(2) win Duke's 19th -- and Coach K's 13th -- ACC championship. That would widen Duke's lead in ACC titles over UNC (17 titles) and it would allow Coach K to tie Dean Smith with 13 titles.

(3) win a regional championship (which means reaching the Final Four): It would be Duke's 16th, second all-time to UNC at 18. It would be Coach K's 12th -- breaking his tie with Dean Smith at 11 and tying John Wooden at 12 for first place alltime.

(4) win the ACC regular season championship: not as important as the official ACC championship, won in the tourney, but an accomplishment nevertheless

I list these goals first, since they are championships ... and I believe you ALWAYS play for championships first.

Lessor team goals include winning 30-plus games for the 12th time (Duke's 11 30-win seasons are already No. 1 in NCAA history) and finishing No. 1 in the final AP poll for the eighth time.

The top individual goals:

(1) For Singler to become Duke's ninth consensus national player of the year.

(2) For Smith to become a consensus first-time All-American

(3) For K to pass Rupp for third place on the coaching list (needs nine wins); Smith for second place (needs 12 wins) and Knight for first place (needs 35 wins). I list this third because all of those things WILL happen sooner or later. Although if the first two don't happen this year, it will be a disastrous year. The last isn't vital THIS YEAR. K could still win 33 games this year and we could accomplish our big goals.

(4) Any individual statistical goals -- Singler needs to get 2,000 points, which he will if he stays healthy. After that, it's no big deal if he catches Laettner or even Dawkins on the scoring list. His place in Duke history will be defined by his 1 or 2 national championships, not by his cumulative point total. It would be neat if Nolan made a run at 2,000 points, but it's not likely to happen (he needs 853 to get there ... that would be the second-highest single season total in Duke history).

Finally: I would like to see Austin Rivers sign with Duke in November, then I would selfishly hope that Kyrie Irving and Mason Plumlee play well enough to be certain NBA lottery picks ... but that both decide to return to Duke for the 2011-12 season so they can try to win a third national title in a row.

Do all these things and 2011 will be a perfect season.

You missed one important team goal. Sweep Carolina. No season is perfect if we lose even once to the Holes. ;)

Olympic Fan
08-03-2010, 02:00 PM
You missed one important team goal. Sweep Carolina. No season is perfect if we lose even once to the Holes. ;)

Absolutely correct .. thanks for the fix.

2-0 vs. UNC would be fine ... 3-0 would be perfect. I actually wouldn't want to see 4-0 because that would mean that they AT LEAST reached the Elite Eight (the earliest conference teams could meet in the NCAA Tournament).

PS When I earlier listed Pat Summitt with Meyer and McGee as coaches who are not in the discussion with Knight-Smith-Rupp-K for all-time coaching wins, I meant no dis-respect for Summitt (or the two small college coaches).

Summitt is great at what she does, but she doesn't coach men's basketball. I've seen commentators try to throw her into the mix ... that makes as much sense as including Pat Riley's NBA victories or that juco coach with almost 2,000 wins -- or Tex Harrison's 10,000 wins with the Globetrotters. They are all great in their own field and if we ever raise the question of who is the greatest "basketball" coach, then all deserve a spot in the discussion (well, maybe not Harrison).

I'm just trying to beg that we not clutter up the Krzyzewski chase of Rupp/Smith/Knight with irrelevent names.

Orange&BlackSheep
08-03-2010, 02:16 PM
i mean.....he did.....in my most honest opinion, he should have been ejected.....

Ejected? Oh puhlease ... those little taunts happen all the time in game. (And it was just that.) Ejection there would be a ref determining the outcome rather than the players on the floor.

RoyalBlue08
08-03-2010, 03:56 PM
2-0 vs. UNC would be fine ... 3-0 would be perfect. I actually wouldn't want to see 4-0 because that would mean that they AT LEAST reached the Elite Eight (the earliest conference teams could meet in the NCAA Tournament).



I've always thought that a Duke win over UNC in the Final Four would be the greatest thing that could ever happen in sports. Anytime Duke beats UNC it is reason to celebrate, but if you add in all that is riding on a game in the Final Four.....pure joy. (Unfortunately, the chance to achieve pure joy leaves us vulnerable to the possibility of pure agony. I'm not sure I could handle the converse.)