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View Full Version : Shavlik Randolph signs contract with Miami Heat



arydolphin
07-27-2010, 06:22 PM
Link: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/fl-miami-heat-randolph-0728-20100727,0,1483003.story

The bad news for Shav is that it's a non-guaranteed contract, and he's the 14th player under contract. With only 12 guys on the active roster every night, he's a longshot to get meaningful playing time with the Heat.

CEF1959
07-27-2010, 06:28 PM
Good for Shav. Bad for Jon Scheyer.

chrisheery
07-27-2010, 06:56 PM
Link: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/fl-miami-heat-randolph-0728-20100727,0,1483003.story

The bad news for Shav is that it's a non-guaranteed contract, and he's the 14th player under contract. With only 12 guys on the active roster every night, he's a longshot to get meaningful playing time with the Heat.

The good news is that he continues to play basketball (or even just play a little bit of basketball).

Osiagledknarf
07-27-2010, 07:00 PM
Good for Shav. Bad for Jon Scheyer.

At this point, they will be both bound for he D-League along with guys like Desean Butler and Dexter Pittman. There is just no room for guys like Shavlik and Scheyer on the Heat Roster. I wish him the best of luck though and hope he could possibly help out another team down the road.

DukieInBrasil
07-27-2010, 07:35 PM
liked what they saw last year. Shav played in a few games for the Heat at the end of last year. He didn't put up big numbers or anything, but he keeps hanging around the NBA, and just might get another chance to get real PT if an opportunity arises.

MisterRoddy
07-27-2010, 07:39 PM
At this point, they will be both bound for he D-League along with guys like Desean Butler and Dexter Pittman. There is just no room for guys like Shavlik and Scheyer on the Heat Roster. I wish him the best of luck though and hope he could possibly help out another team down the road.

Dexter Pittman is most likely going to stay with the Heat and it's Da'sean Butler, who I also doubt is going to the D-League, he would most likely go overseas while he recovers but that knee injury is putting him in a peculiar situation.

Osiagledknarf
07-27-2010, 08:02 PM
Dexter Pittman is most likely going to stay with the Heat and it's Da'sean Butler, who I also doubt is going to the D-League, he would most likely go overseas while he recovers but that knee injury is putting him in a peculiar situation.

Where is the room on the roster for Pittman? They can only have 12 actives for every game and I don't think he will make the roster out of camp. They have Big Z and Joel Anthony there at the center position and there mainly looking for more shooters, not big man. We shall see as camp goes along if he makes the cut, but they have already 5 big man on the roster and Mike Miller as the only shooter off the bench.

MisterRoddy
07-27-2010, 08:17 PM
Where is the room on the roster for Pittman? They can only have 12 actives for every game and I don't think he will make the roster out of camp. They have Big Z and Joel Anthony there at the center position and there mainly looking for more shooters, not big man. We shall see as camp goes along if he makes the cut, but they have already 5 big man on the roster and Mike Miller as the only shooter off the bench.

They have 12 actives and 3 inactives, plus the Heat have clearly committed themselves to Pittman as evidence by the 3 year contract. Pittman will most likely hold one of the inactive spots.

hq2
07-27-2010, 08:18 PM
Hey, Shav's hanging in there. If not the Heat, then maybe someone else. Ought to come up here; the C's could use some cheap frontcourt help (like Shelden last year.)

4decadedukie
07-28-2010, 05:43 AM
At this point, they will be both bound for he D-League along with guys like Desean Butler and Dexter Pittman. There is just no room for guys like Shavlik and Scheyer on the Heat Roster. I wish him the best of luck though and hope he could possibly help out another team down the road.

Perhaps, but is there salary cap ceiling available at Miami for players other than guys like Jon and Shav?

CDu
07-28-2010, 07:22 AM
Perhaps, but is there salary cap ceiling available at Miami for players other than guys like Jon and Shav?

Salary cap is irrelevant now, as the Heat have 13 players with guaranteed contracts and Shav with a non-guaranteed deal. So they don't have to take on any more salary anyway. Frankly, I'm not entirely sure where Shav fits in on the roster at all. He'd be the 8th big man (they have Bosh, Haslem, Magloire, Ilgauskas, Anthony, Howard, and Pittman as well). I'm not even talking about playing time (that would be nonexistent barring injury) - I'm just talking about any sort of role on the roster.

It appears that Kenny Hasbrouck will also get a non-guaranteed deal today (per the article linked in this thread). He makes more sense as another shooter for the roster (behind Miller, Jones, and Chalmers in that role). He'll likely only occasionally dress for games if he makes the team, but I'd say he has a greater chance of making it as a 7th wing player than Randolph has of making it as an 8th big.

And if the Hasbrouck signing is true, it would appear that Scheyer is out of luck in Miami.

flyingdutchdevil
07-28-2010, 07:24 AM
Perhaps, but is there salary cap ceiling available at Miami for players other than guys like Jon and Shav?

There's no need to. They've filled up the roster (12 guaranteed contracts already, I believe) with decent role players who are much better than Jon or Shav (let's be realistic). The Kings of South Beach all took a pay-cut to play together as well as get decent talent to fill in the gaps.

CDu
07-28-2010, 07:42 AM
There's no need to. They've filled up the roster (12 guaranteed contracts already, I believe) with decent role players who are much better than Jon or Shav (let's be realistic). The Kings of South Beach all took a pay-cut to play together as well as get decent talent to fill in the gaps.

Well, let's give credit where credit is due. Several players took more meaningful paycuts than the big three did (who are still making $110 million-ish) in order to make this happen. Haslem, for example, took about a 40-50% lower salary to play with Miami again rather than get a bigger contract. I'm not saying that the big three taking less money isn't relevant. But it's a lot easier to turn down ~$2 million per year when you're averaging $17 million per year already. It's a few of the lesser-named guys that made the real sacrifice here financially.

flyingdutchdevil
07-28-2010, 07:53 AM
Well, let's give credit where credit is due. Several players took more meaningful paycuts than the big three did (who are still making $110 million-ish) in order to make this happen. Haslem, for example, took about a 40-50% lower salary to play with Miami again rather than get a bigger contract. I'm not saying that the big three taking less money isn't relevant. But it's a lot easier to turn down ~$2 million per year when you're averaging $17 million per year already. It's a few of the lesser-named guys that made the real sacrifice here financially.

Haslem, Miller, and co did take paycuts (not sure about Haslem being 40-50% under market value, however). But I'm still impressed by the Three Kings's paycut - when was the last time a superstar player, in his prime, took a pay cut for his team? And by superstar, I mean a top 10 player in the league (of which the Three Kings are). It rarely happens, and never happens with more than one player per team.

CDu
07-28-2010, 08:07 AM
Haslem got a 3 year, $20 million offer from the Mavericks. He turned that down to return to the Heat. But given the contract situation for the Heat, Haslem had to take substantially less than that. They were at roughly $48 million not counting the contracts for Anthony, Miller, and Haslem, and Miller and Anthony signed for 5 years at a combined $43 million. Even at the maximum escalation (meaning minimum first year salary) of 8% (since both players had to come in as free agents and not Bird's rights players), that can't leave more than $2-3 million in the first year for Haslem. That's a 50% paycut from the ~$6 million next year he was offered by the Mavs.

I didn't say that the big three's decisions to take a slight paycut wasn't commendable. Just that it shouldn't be lauded as a sacrifice on their part. They're still getting superpaid, and the increase in fun I'm sure more than offsets the slight paycut. It's certainly not common for stars to do what they did, but the real financial sacrifice has been made by the guys making substantially less.

DevilWearsPrada
07-28-2010, 09:20 AM
Hopefully Shav will continue to stay on a NBA roster. The best to him.

cato
07-28-2010, 09:42 AM
I didn't say that the big three's decisions to take a slight paycut wasn't commendable. Just that it shouldn't be lauded as a sacrifice on their part. They're still getting superpaid, and the increase in fun I'm sure more than offsets the slight paycut.

In fact, it may not even be a sacrifice, if the foregone salary is made up in extra $$$ from endorsements.

Indoor66
07-28-2010, 10:26 AM
In fact, it may not even be a sacrifice, if the foregone salary is made up in extra $$$ from endorsements.

There are not a lot of endorsements for 2nd tier players - even in their home markets.

SeattleIrish
07-28-2010, 10:38 AM
that shav is still in the conversation about the NBA. Of recent players, I never thought Shav would have a shot at the NBA.

The guy has really surprised me. Well done, Shav - hope he gets a contract this year.

s.i.

CDu
07-28-2010, 10:45 AM
There are not a lot of endorsements for 2nd tier players - even in their home markets.

I'm pretty sure Cato was talking about the Big Three (James, Wade, Bosh) and not the other players. For some of the other players (Haslem especially), they are almost certainly making a financial sacrifice for the opportunity to play with the Big Three.

Billy Dat
07-28-2010, 11:01 AM
For what it's worth, Shav has banked $3.6MM so far in his NBA career. Not bad!

-jk
07-28-2010, 11:29 AM
I think I read that the taxes in Florida are such that a pay cut can still net the player more.

-jk

Indoor66
07-28-2010, 11:52 AM
I think I read that the taxes in Florida are such that a pay cut can still net the player more.

-jk

No State income tax in Florida. Prohibited by the State Constitution. That is why so many athletes and wealthy locate here.

CDu
07-28-2010, 12:17 PM
I think I read that the taxes in Florida are such that a pay cut can still net the player more.

-jk

It's possible. There is no state income tax in Florida. So Heat (and Magic) players do not state income tax on home games (they are still subject to state taxes on games played outside the state). State income tax isn't THAT much money (especially when you're saving it on effectively half of your salary), but it's some money. So a player could indeed take a very small paycut and still net more money.

However, the amount of money we're talking about with the big three (and certainly with the role players the Heat signed) is such that the income tax would not completely offset the lost income. But it does factor in and reduce some of the supposed sacrifice for the big three.

mkirsh
07-28-2010, 01:56 PM
I think that Texas has no state income tax either, so Haslem's pay cut is apples-to-apples when comparing the Dallas vs Miami offer.

Indoor66
07-28-2010, 01:57 PM
It's possible. There is no state income tax in Florida. So Heat (and Magic) players do not state income tax on home games (they are still subject to state taxes on games played outside the state). State income tax isn't THAT much money (especially when you're saving it on effectively half of your salary


If you save it on 1/2 the salary and the salary is $7 million (like JJ will be), then the savings is, roughly, 8% * $3.25 (accounting for progessivity) or $300,000 for the year. If the income is $17 million, the savings are about $1,360,000. Neither of those figures are chump change in any league.

CDu
07-28-2010, 02:09 PM
If you save it on 1/2 the salary and the salary is $7 million (like JJ will be), then the savings is, roughly, 8% * $3.25 (accounting for progessivity) or $300,000 for the year. If the income is $17 million, the savings are about $1,360,000. Neither of those figures are chump change in any league.

Sorry if my point wasn't clear. My point was that the savings aren't such that the paycuts being discussed with the Heat would be completely offset. Also, I think your numbers are a bit off for the $17 million example. It looks like you didn't divide by 2 first. The savings for a $17 million contract would be less than $700,000. Your estimate appears to just be $17 million * 8%. Again, $700,000 is not chump change, but it is still substantially less than the $2-3 million per year paycut that the Big Three took to play in Miami.

And to further clarify, I'm in no way arguing this point to compliment the "sacrifices" by the big three. I was just responding to the income tax question in general in saying that the income tax savings don't offset the paycuts in this case.

CDu
07-28-2010, 02:11 PM
I think that Texas has no state income tax either, so Haslem's pay cut is apples-to-apples when comparing the Dallas vs Miami offer.

Yes. Haslem's paycut is pretty much dollar for dollar. That further accentuates the point that his paycut is much more of a sacrifice than that of the Big Three (who all get a bit of their paycut back in income tax relief).

mkirsh
07-28-2010, 02:21 PM
If you save it on 1/2 the salary and the salary is $7 million (like JJ will be), then the savings is, roughly, 8% * $3.25 (accounting for progessivity) or $300,000 for the year. If the income is $17 million, the savings are about $1,360,000. Neither of those figures are chump change in any league.

May even be more, I'm not sure how they come up with apportionment methodology. I would imagine a good tax lawyer would say that other states don't have rights to ~50% (based on 39 of 82 games played outside of Florida), but rather only 39 days (maybe more with travel, so call it 60 days) out of the full year that is technically worked in other states, so the state income tax probably applies to 80% plus of their income. Argument would be that the salary covers other things than just games - practice, minicamp, corporate/sponsor events, etc - and days not games is the best methodology to use.

CDu
07-28-2010, 02:29 PM
May even be more, I'm not sure how they come up with apportionment methodology. I would imagine a good tax lawyer would say that other states don't have rights to ~50% (based on 39 of 82 games played outside of Florida), but rather only 39 days (maybe more with travel, so call it 60 days) out of the full year that is technically worked in other states, so the state income tax probably applies to 80% plus of their income. Argument would be that the salary covers other things than just games - practice, minicamp, corporate/sponsor events, etc - and days not games is the best methodology to use.

That's an interesting question regarding what percentage of time is counted in the tax. Regardless, for the $17 million example, it's definitely less than the $1.36 million estimated savings, as that would assume that 100% of the salary is not taxed by the state (see my previous post on that).

But yes, on a max contract, the savings would be somewhere between $600k and $1.36 million. So a paycut slightly less than whatever that number is would actually result in a net salary increase.

But again, the paycuts we're talking about for the big three are greater than $2 million. Thus, they aren't actually making more net money with the move (though the net paycut is smaller than the contracts would suggest).

cato
07-28-2010, 02:33 PM
I'm pretty sure Cato was talking about the Big Three (James, Wade, Bosh) and not the other players. For some of the other players (Haslem especially), they are almost certainly making a financial sacrifice for the opportunity to play with the Big Three.

Indeed. By becoming the new Big Three (Bigger Three?), they may be significantly increasing their earning potential off the court.

CDu
07-28-2010, 02:38 PM
Indeed. By becoming the new Big Three (Bigger Three?), they may be significantly increasing their earning potential off the court.

I figured that's what you meant. I admit I don't know enough about endorsement opportunities, but I'm not sure that the move will have much positive impact on their endorsements. Wade and James are already megastars and have huge endorsement deals already. I guess it's possible that more come in (and I don't think the decisions will hurt their deals). With Bosh, I'm not sure. He's now the third dog on his team, and that usually doesn't lead to big endorsement opportunities. Of course, he wasn't a big endorsements guy prior (less of a star, not as big a media personality), so maybe there aren't many endorsements to be lost anyway.

Duvall
07-28-2010, 02:55 PM
I figured that's what you meant. I admit I don't know enough about endorsement opportunities, but I'm not sure that the move will have much positive impact on their endorsements. Wade and James are already megastars and have huge endorsement deals already. I guess it's possible that more come in (and I don't think the decisions will hurt their deals). With Bosh, I'm not sure. He's now the third dog on his team, and that usually doesn't lead to big endorsement opportunities. Of course, he wasn't a big endorsements guy prior (less of a star, not as big a media personality), so maybe there aren't many endorsements to be lost anyway.

I'll be very surprised if Bosh doesn't benefit from this. Even as the third banana he's moving from basketball Siberia to the center of the NBA universe. Bosh has probably gotten more attention in the last month than he did in a year in Toronto.

CDu
07-28-2010, 02:59 PM
I'll be very surprised if Bosh doesn't benefit from this. Even as the third banana he's moving from basketball Siberia to the center of the NBA universe. Bosh has probably gotten more attention in the last month than he did in a year in Toronto.

Yes, he's gone from obscurity to relevance. But you have to consider this relative to his alternatives. For example, if he went to the Bulls (replacing Boozer there), he might very well have seen a similar benefit in his relevance. And there, he'd be a bigger star. So that might lead to more opportunities than he'll get in Miami as the third dog (which may still be more than he'd have gotten in Toronto).

-bdbd
07-28-2010, 06:10 PM
Congrats to Shav! Such a great kid, you HAVE to want to see him do well.
I'd love to see Lebron's reaction to the signing...
How's he going to feel about coming off the bench now??

arnie
07-28-2010, 09:08 PM
that shav is still in the conversation about the NBA. Of recent players, I never thought Shav would have a shot at the NBA.

The guy has really surprised me. Well done, Shav - hope he gets a contract this year.

s.i.

And if he can stay on the team he's guaranteed at least 6 or 7 championship rings according the the 3-pack. That would give ex-Dukies 8-9 rings.

Kdogg
07-29-2010, 01:14 AM
Haslem, Miller, and co did take paycuts (not sure about Haslem being 40-50% under market value, however). But I'm still impressed by the Three Kings's paycut - when was the last time a superstar player, in his prime, took a pay cut for his team? And by superstar, I mean a top 10 player in the league (of which the Three Kings are). It rarely happens, and never happens with more than one player per team.

Kevin Garnett took over 40% less back in 2004.

JasonEvans
07-29-2010, 09:12 AM
Here is a columnist from the Sun Sentinel (http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_basketball_heat/2010/07/hasbrouck-just-might-be-a-heat-piece-that-fits.html)that seems to think Shav won't make the roster. He makes some good points.

--Jason "at this point for Shav, I think the NBA minimum is more than a million bucks a year, so making a roster is a biiig deal!" Evans

CDu
07-29-2010, 09:21 AM
Here is a columnist from the Sun Sentinel (http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_basketball_heat/2010/07/hasbrouck-just-might-be-a-heat-piece-that-fits.html)that seems to think Shav won't make the roster. He makes some good points.

--Jason "at this point for Shav, I think the NBA minimum is more than a million bucks a year, so making a roster is a biiig deal!" Evans

Yeah, that was my first thought when reading the original post about the signing. Randolph doesn't really fit on a roster that already has 7 big men on guaranteed contracts.

Big Pappa
07-29-2010, 09:27 AM
I think that Texas has no state income tax either, so Haslem's pay cut is apples-to-apples when comparing the Dallas vs Miami offer.

That is correct and a good point. I really don't think Shav makes the 15 man roster anyway though. I believe the Sioux Falls Skyforce are the Miami D-League affiliate.

JasonEvans
07-29-2010, 09:56 AM
I believe the Sioux Falls Skyforce are the Miami D-League affiliate.

Well, that is no big deal. I mean Sioux Falls, South Dakota is often called South Beach-part II.

--Jason "the NBA really needs to think about more strategic placement of these D-league teams" Evans

mkirsh
07-29-2010, 11:13 AM
Well, that is no big deal. I mean Sioux Falls, South Dakota is often called South Beach-part II.

--Jason "the NBA really needs to think about more strategic placement of these D-league teams" Evans

South Dakota is one of the other six states with no personal income tax, so it makes perfect sense (per the tax discussion earlier, of course)

CDu
07-29-2010, 01:04 PM
Eddie House appears to have agreed with the Heat for the veteran minimum:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AsUWwgCo8_CmeYvmkrAM1528vLYF?slug=aw-eddiehouse072910

That gives the Heat 14 players with guaranteed contracts (Wade, James, Bosh, Miller, Haslem, Jones, Chalmers, Big Z, Magloire, Anthony, Arroyo, Howard, House, and Pittman), and two with non-guaranteed contracts (Randolph and Hasbrouck).

Technically, the Heat don't have to keep Randolph or Hasbrouck. But they can only keep one of them now. And given that they have seven bigs already, Hasbrouck would seem the more likely fit of the two.

MisterRoddy
07-29-2010, 05:21 PM
Eddie House appears to have agreed with the Heat for the veteran minimum:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AsUWwgCo8_CmeYvmkrAM1528vLYF?slug=aw-eddiehouse072910

That gives the Heat 14 players with guaranteed contracts (Wade, James, Bosh, Miller, Haslem, Jones, Chalmers, Big Z, Magloire, Anthony, Arroyo, Howard, House, and Pittman), and two with non-guaranteed contracts (Randolph and Hasbrouck).

Technically, the Heat don't have to keep Randolph or Hasbrouck. But they can only keep one of them now. And given that they have seven bigs already, Hasbrouck would seem the more likely fit of the two.

If Jon's chances with the Heat were only on life support before this, I think we could say they are officially dead now, unforunately.

CDu
07-29-2010, 08:43 PM
If Jon's chances with the Heat were only on life support before this, I think we could say they are officially dead now, unforunately.

Yeah, I didn't think he had a great fit in Miami anyway. But this pretty much seals it. Maybe he can find an invite to another team's camp. Otherwise, I'm sure he can land with a European team.

elvis14
07-29-2010, 11:32 PM
I was hoping Shav or Jon could find a place on the roster. If that's not going to happen I hope they can figure out how to land on another roster. In a way it's a good thing, since the Heat are now THE team to root against after "The Decision" debacle. As for the Heat's top 3 players taking less money, they may be getting less in salary but you can bet 100% that they all knew what kind of endorsement $$ they would be making before they signed. This was a calculated move. They took less to make more.

I think I'm getting too cynical as I get older! :(

Indoor66
07-30-2010, 07:06 AM
I was hoping Shav or Jon could find a place on the roster. If that's not going to happen I hope they can figure out how to land on another roster. In a way it's a good thing, since the Heat are now THE team to root against after "The Decision" debacle. As for the Heat's top 3 players taking less money, they may be getting less in salary but you can bet 100% that they all knew what kind of endorsement $$ they would be making before they signed. This was a calculated move. They took less to make more.

I think I'm getting too cynical as I get older! :(

What is cynical about your comments? The NBA is a business and these guys have wares to sell for a limited time. Making decisions that benefit themselves is total appropriate. Do you think the owners don't do the same? They trade players, waive players, etc. based on their needs. The players do the same with their lever - free agency. IMO, as I said, totally appropriate.

Devilsfan
07-30-2010, 01:12 PM
Way to go Shav. Heard you had a nice ship. What better place to float it then in South Beach.

CDu
07-30-2010, 03:38 PM
Way to go Shav. Heard you had a nice ship. What better place to float it then in South Beach.

Not so fast. The Heat have 14 players under contract and then Shav and Hasbrouck on non-guaranteed deals. So Randolph has about a 50/50 shot of actually being on the Miami roster.

SilkyJ
07-30-2010, 04:13 PM
Well, that is no big deal. I mean Sioux Falls, South Dakota is often called South Beach-part II.

--Jason "the NBA really needs to think about more strategic placement of these D-league teams" Evans

Seriously. Other obscure locations (apologies if you live here, I don't mean to offend!):

Bismark, ND
Erie, PA
McAllen, TX
Bakersfield, CA

And not on the same level, but what about:

Boise, ID
Portland, ME
Springfield, MA
Reno, NV

How would you feel if you were stuck in Bismarck, when others got to play in:

Austin, TX
Frisco, TX (Dallas suburb)
Provo, UT (SLC suburb)