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JasonEvans
07-27-2010, 04:07 PM
He ends up not making the NBA, but signing a contract to play with Maccabi Haifa (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-maccabihaifa-landesberg) in the Israeli League. Haifa is the same team that signed teenager Jeremy Tyler a year ago, though that did not work out well at all.

--Jason "not sure he ever would have made the NBA, but this is hardly what he expected when he left UVA early" Evans

JasonEvans
07-27-2010, 04:17 PM
A little added info.

I was wondering what Landesberg might make playing for an Israeli-league team. I was doing some digging and found a story from a couple days ago that mentioned that Stephon Marbury had turned down a $200,000 offer from an Israeli team (http://www.eurobasket.com/Israel/basketball.asp?NewsID=197789) because Marbury wanted to stay in China and promote his shoe line to the large market there.

Anyway, if they are playing an established pro with long NBA roots and success like Marbury $200,000, I have to think that Landesberg is looking at maybe $125 or $150k per season... at the most. True, this is better money than most UVA dropouts are going to make from day one, but it is a far cry from what most kids hope to make when they leave college early to reach their NBA dreams.

-Jason "I believe that if move up in the European leagues -- to teams in Germany, Russia, and especially Italy and Spain -- you can make $500k+" Evans

Bluedog
07-27-2010, 04:29 PM
I have to think that Landesberg is looking at maybe $125 or $150k per season... at the most. True, this is better money than most UVA dropouts are going to make from day one

Better than most UVa dropouts? I'd say better than 99% of UVa first-year grads and 99+% of dropouts. Of course, money isn't everything and I agree with everything else you said. Adjusting to life in Israel will take a while, especially for a 20-year-old. It's certainly not like he can live the glamourous lifestyle of a first round draft pick in the NBA. On another note, I had no idea Landesberg was Jewish; I should have been able to figure that out from his last name, I suppose, but still somewhat surprised. I guess the Israeli league says you are considered Jewish if either parent is...the orthodox version says your mother must be Jewish since that's the only one you know for sure (obviously, that was written before the days of DNA testing).

SilkyJ
07-27-2010, 04:30 PM
-Jason "I believe that if move up in the European leagues -- to teams in Germany, Russia, and especially Italy and Spain -- you can make $500k+" Evans

Here's how much the top players in Europe make (http://forums.interbasket.net/f11/best-paid-players-in-europe-8692/) (and Landesburg obviously does not fall into that category, so no idea if 500k is right for a player like him or not...seems reasonable though).

Langdon checks in at #37 with a cool $1.6mm. And let's not forget that I believe these contracts are NET of taxes.

tbyers11
07-27-2010, 04:31 PM
A little added info.

I was wondering what Landesberg might make playing for an Israeli-league team. I was doing some digging and found a story from a couple days ago that mentioned that Stephon Marbury had turned down a $200,000 offer from an Israeli team (http://www.eurobasket.com/Israel/basketball.asp?NewsID=197789) because Marbury wanted to stay in China and promote his shoe line to the large market there.

Anyway, if they are playing an established pro with long NBA roots and success like Marbury $200,000, I have to think that Landesberg is looking at maybe $125 or $150k per season... at the most. True, this is better money than most UVA dropouts are going to make from day one, but it is a far cry from what most kids hope to make when they leave college early to reach their NBA dreams.

-Jason "I believe that if move up in the European leagues -- to teams in Germany, Russia, and especially Italy and Spain -- you can make $500k+" Evans

Jeremy Tyler got a one year, $140,000 contract last year (http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=8314653). I am guessing that Landesberg gets at least that much. Your $150,000 estimate seems about right to me.

tbyers11
07-27-2010, 04:40 PM
Here's how much the top players in Europe make (http://forums.interbasket.net/f11/best-paid-players-in-europe-8692/) (and Landesburg obviously does not fall into that category, so no idea if 500k is right for a player like him or not...seems reasonable though).

Langdon checks in at #37 with a cool $1.6mm. And let's not forget that I believe these contracts are NET of taxes.

I think those figures are also in Euros. That list is for the 2008-2009 season, but with the current exchange rate 1.6 million Euros = 2.08 million dollars. If the contracts are NET of taxes, Trajan would have to be paid over $3 million here in the US to have as much take home pay. He seems to be doing alright for himself :D

JasonEvans
07-27-2010, 04:41 PM
On another note, I had no idea Landesberg was Jewish; I should have been able to figure that out from his last name, I suppose, but still somewhat surprised. I guess the Israeli league says you are considered Jewish if either parent is...the orthodox version says your mother must be Jewish since that's the only one you know for sure (obviously, that was written before the days of DNA testing).

What makes you think he is Jewish? You don't have to be Jewish to play in the Israeli league. One of Landesberg's teammates on Maccabi Haifa will be Mamadou N'Diaye, who played at Auburn and was a first round NBA draft pick in the early 2000s. He is almost certainly not Jewish.

--Jason "Will Avery played in the Israeli league for several years after he left the NBA, I think" Evans

flyingdutchdevil
07-27-2010, 04:49 PM
What makes you think he is Jewish? You don't have to be Jewish to play in the Israeli league. One of Landesberg's teammates on Maccabi Haifa will be Mamadou N'Diaye, who played at Auburn and was a first round NBA draft pick in the early 2000s. He is almost certainly not Jewish.

--Jason "Will Avery played in the Israeli league for several years after he left the NBA, I think" Evans

Maybe because Bulldog did his research: http://dimemag.com/2010/07/israel-has-big-things-planned-for-sylven-landesberg/

Bluedog
07-27-2010, 04:56 PM
What makes you think he is Jewish? You don't have to be Jewish to play in the Israeli league. One of Landesberg's teammates on Maccabi Haifa will be Mamadou N'Diaye, who played at Auburn and was a first round NBA draft pick in the early 2000s. He is almost certainly not Jewish.

--Jason "Will Avery played in the Israeli league for several years after he left the NBA, I think" Evans


Maybe because Bulldog did his research: http://dimemag.com/2010/07/israel-has-big-things-planned-for-sylven-landesberg/

Yep, what flyingdutchdevil said. He are some more links substantiating that he's Jewish.

http://www.jewishsportsreview.com/200910basketball.htm 2009-2010 Jewish Sports Review Men’s College Basketball All-America Team

And here's it straight from his mouth:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/luke_winn/01/22/sylven.landesberg/1.html


My father's side is Jewish
(his mom is from Trinidad)

I realize you don't have to be Jewish to play in the Israeli league, but I think teams are encouraged to sign Jews for some reason...right? Or there are certain numerical restrictions. I guess it has to do with being Israeli citizens and if you're Jewish you can get a passport pretty easily.

JasonEvans
07-27-2010, 04:59 PM
Maybe because Bulldog did his research: http://dimemag.com/2010/07/israel-has-big-things-planned-for-sylven-landesberg/

Niiice. I had no idea. The great thing for Maccabi Haifa is that because Landesberg is Jewish, he is considered a citizen of Israel. As a result, I am fairly sure he does not count against the cap on American players. I think there is still a rule in place that European teams are only allowed to have 2 Americans on their roster at one time.

--Jason "now that I think about it, Sylvan Landesberg sounds like an old Jewish man living in a home in Miami" Evans

arydolphin
07-27-2010, 06:33 PM
Jason, don't slam a player for going to the Israeli League. A certain #30 from this year's national championship team will probably end up there if he doesn't get signed full time by the Miami Heat. Link: http://thehoopsmarket.blogspot.com/2010/06/maccabi-tel-aviv-in-talks-with-jamont.html

CEF1959
07-27-2010, 06:51 PM
It's discrimination by citizenship, not by religion, and it's a pretty standard practice for European and other foreign leagues.

Both Landesberg and Scheyer are American citizens, not Israeli citizens. Does their being Jewish get them a special pass into the league that non-Jews don't get? Which goes back to my original question: Is there any other league that discriminates on the basis of religion?

-jk
07-27-2010, 06:56 PM
Both Landesberg and Scheyer are American citizens, not Israeli citizens. Does their being Jewish gets them a special pass? Which goes back to my original question: Is there any other league that discriminates on the basis of religion?
Let's not make this a public policy discussion.

-jk

-jk
07-27-2010, 07:03 PM
Jason, don't slam a player for going to the Israeli League. A certain #30 from this year's national championship team will probably end up there if he doesn't get signed full time by the Miami Heat. Link: http://thehoopsmarket.blogspot.com/2010/06/maccabi-tel-aviv-in-talks-with-jamont.html

I think he's slamming for dropping out of school and not getting a whiff of the nba.

-jk

sagegrouse
07-27-2010, 07:10 PM
Bona fide Jews can easily qualify for Israeli citizenship without having to renounce their prior country. Besides, these are the rules of Israel and the Israeli basketball league, not the US, the UN, or the EU. Seems to me that these loopholes decrease the discrimination against Americans in overseas leagues, not increase it.

sagegrouse

FireOgilvie
07-27-2010, 07:13 PM
Both Landesberg and Scheyer are American citizens, not Israeli citizens. Does their being Jewish get them a special pass into the league that non-Jews don't get? Which goes back to my original question: Is there any other league that discriminates on the basis of religion?

Because they are Jewish, I believe they are Israeli citizens under the "Law of Return" or something like it. So technically, it's based on nationality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return

Edit: I see that pfrduke posted this as well when I as writing this up.

Several leagues in many sports in Asia have quotas about the number of players from the "home country" of the league. The whole point is to keep and develop the country's talent, while also keeping interest from the local fans. Scheyer and Landesberg could both probably play for Israel if they wanted to (although they might have to give up US citizenship, I'm not sure about that).

pfrduke
07-27-2010, 07:38 PM
Because they are Jewish, I believe they are Israeli citizens under the "Law of Return" or something like it. So technically, it's based on nationality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return

Edit: I see that pfrduke posted this as well when I as writing this up.

Several leagues in many sports in Asia have quotas about the number of players from the "home country" of the league. The whole point is to keep and develop the country's talent, while also keeping interest from the local fans. Scheyer and Landesberg could both probably play for Israel if they wanted to (although they might have to give up US citizenship, I'm not sure about that).

The US, while not encouraging double citizenship, is very permissive of it and does not require you to relinquish US citizenship should you also obtain foreign citizenship. Only if you intend to renounce your US citizenship will you lose it by acquiring citizenship of another country. Of course, in some cases, the other country's rules may require you to renounce citizenship, but I do not believe Israel has such rules.

cato
07-27-2010, 07:52 PM
The US, while not encouraging double citizenship, is very permissive of it and does not require you to relinquish US citizenship should you also obtain foreign citizenship. Only if you intend to renounce your US citizenship will you lose it by acquiring citizenship of another country. Of course, in some cases, the other country's rules may require you to renounce citizenship, but I do not believe Israel has such rules.

Quite true. Of the top of my head, I can think of friends, all born and raised in the US, who have dual citizenship with, respectively, Israel, Mexico and Ireland.

Merlindevildog91
07-27-2010, 08:58 PM
Not to get too far afield, but isn't Nick Horvath considered a Kiwi in New Zealand because he married a local?

Duvall
07-27-2010, 09:41 PM
Not to get too far afield, but isn't Nick Horvath considered a Kiwi in New Zealand because he married a local?

He is a naturalized citizen of New Zealand, and played for their national team in 2008.

tommy
07-27-2010, 10:20 PM
Yep, what flyingdutchdevil said. He are some more links substantiating that he's Jewish.

http://www.jewishsportsreview.com/200910basketball.htm 2009-2010 Jewish Sports Review Men’s College Basketball All-America Team

And here's it straight from his mouth:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/luke_winn/01/22/sylven.landesberg/1.html


(his mom is from Trinidad)

Much mazel to Sylvan.

DukeHoo
07-27-2010, 10:29 PM
You can get dual US-Israeli citizenship as long as you don't do something to affirmatively disavow your American citizenship (such as serving as as an officer in the IDF or destroying your American passport). The US won't formally acknowledge the dual citizenship, but it will exist in fact. Since Landesberg is Jewish (Right of Return defines anyone with a Jewish grandparent as Jewish though some Orthodox Jews are trying to change that...), becoming a citizen is really easy. There is even a program called Nefesh B'Nefesh that let's you finish all the paperwork on the plane ride over there and have citizenship when you step off the plane in Tel Aviv (though I believe you have to wait a week for the passport). The only concern for Landesberg is the mandatory military service (3 years for men), though other Israeli athletes like Omri Casspi serve in entertainment units that let them circumvent the service. For the record, I lived in Israel for a time so I'm relatively familiar with all of this.

gw67
07-28-2010, 07:23 AM
There are a few recognizable names in the list of top 50 moneymakers in Europe, including three ex-Terps. Besides Trajan who was one of my favorite players, the player whom I'm happy to see has made it is Drew Nicholas. He was backup to Dixon and Blake for three years and had some rough moments during the Devils' miracle finish in 2001 after he replaced Blake. He more than made up for this by his play as a senior where he made all ACC (2nd team?) and made a last second shot to win an NCAAT game (it was replayed several times during last year's tourney). When interviewed in college, he always can accross as a bright, personable youngster who had it together.

This is my first post in the new format so pardon me if I screwed up. I'm probably the last regular to post in this format. I'm just a little late adjusting to new computer innovations - I'm likely the only person East of the Mississippi who hasn't used Facebook or Utube.

gw67

jjh1080
07-28-2010, 07:47 AM
Lets see how bad this is.

Someone just offered you a job at say $125,000 for basically 6 months worth of work, shooting baskets, and you are a college drop out. Nope I wouldn't nor would you take that offer in a million years. Ya, right.

I believe it was Lee Melchionni who went over seas and felt if he played there for about 4 years he would come back with over a million dollars and would be able to start his own business. In his story he told how in Europe they pay his rent and provide him a car. About the only thing he had to pay for was food. On the road they paid for everything. Not sure if Landesberg is smart but if school wasn't for him he probably made a hell of a deal.

For those who know why he left school early, you can make the call on this being a good or bad decision. As for the knuckle heads who don't know his full story, let it go, you are coming off as the know-it-all's, again.

77devil
07-28-2010, 10:07 AM
-Jason "I believe that if move up in the European leagues -- to teams in Germany, Russia, and especially Italy and Spain -- you can make $500k+" Evans

The better American players in Italy were making that much 20 years ago when I lived there. Danny Ferry, Brian Shaw, and Bob McAdoo made a million plus lots of benefits(free housing, driver, etc) at the top end. I would be surprised if the better players today are not making considerably more than $500 k. Landesberg, IMO, will never get there, not even close, not that you suggested that he would.

jimsumner
07-28-2010, 10:46 AM
Crawford Palmer married a French woman, became a French citizen and represented France at the Olympics.

Back to Landesberg. I question the thread title. Is this automatically the "conclusion" of the story? Perhaps he plays lights-out overseas, attracts the attention of the powers-that-be and goes on to a long, prosperous NBA career.

flyingdutchdevil
07-28-2010, 10:49 AM
Crawford Palmer married a French woman, became a French citizen and represented France at the Olympics.

Back to Landesberg. I question the thread title. Is this automatically the "conclusion" of the story? Perhaps he plays lights-out overseas, attracts the attention of the powers-that-be and goes on to a long, prosperous NBA career.

Isn't that what happened to Anthony Parker? Landesberg could easily do that. He's an exciting player and I hope we does make it.

However, I wonder what he'd do if he can't succeed in the Euro league. Become the Shav of the Europe - bouncing from team to team for terrible contracts? Without graduating from college, the opportunities are limited if you can't succeed at playing ball

greybeard
07-28-2010, 02:45 PM
Not to worry. If basketball don't work out, one of those old-school type Jewish agents, usually an old woman, makes a Shiddach (match) for Landesberg with the daughter of a rich businessman; he marries the daughter, gets a piece of the business, and is set for life; It's been happening that way for centuries.

JasonEvans
08-01-2010, 11:21 AM
Apparently, Landesberg is not alone among basketball players exploring their Jewish roots. Amare Stoudamire is making a pilgrimage to Israel (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AnEm.bAkd7TScnU2khSMikK8vLYF?slug=ap-israel-stoudemire) because he thinks he may be Jewish too!


Stoudemire has begun studying Hebrew and his Twitter page features such words as “Shalom,” “Le’chayim” and “ze ha’halom sheli,” Hebrew for “this is my dream.”

“It’s great,” he said. “Hebrew is the original language.”

On Twitter, he (said) “I’m going 2 Israel 2 study Hebrew. It’s time 2 get a better understanding on who we R.”


--Jason "Israelis are dreaming of him playing for the Israeli Olympic team!" Evans

Dev11
08-01-2010, 12:19 PM
Apparently, Landesberg is not alone among basketball players exploring their Jewish roots. Amare Stoudamire is making a pilgrimage to Israel (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AnEm.bAkd7TScnU2khSMikK8vLYF?slug=ap-israel-stoudemire) because he thinks he may be Jewish too!



--Jason "Israelis are dreaming of him playing for the Israeli Olympic team!" Evans

So who will be giving more alley-oops to Amare in Olympic qualifying, Sylvan or Jon? Does Jordan Farmar enter the mix, too?

Dr. Rosenrosen
08-01-2010, 04:06 PM
Better than most UVa dropouts? I'd say better than 99% of UVa first-year grads and 99+% of dropouts. Of course, money isn't everything and I agree with everything else you said. Adjusting to life in Israel will take a while, especially for a 20-year-old. It's certainly not like he can live the glamourous lifestyle of a first round draft pick in the NBA. On another note, I had no idea Landesberg was Jewish; I should have been able to figure that out from his last name, I suppose, but still somewhat surprised. I guess the Israeli league says you are considered Jewish if either parent is...the orthodox version says your mother must be Jewish since that's the only one you know for sure (obviously, that was written before the days of DNA testing).

Why should you have figured it out from his name? A name ending in "berg" (or "burg" for that matter) really means nothing. I know plenty of people whose names end in one of these but are not jewish. It's fairly common among families whose ancestors came from germany - jewish or not.

Bay Area Duke Fan
08-01-2010, 05:13 PM
Apparently, Landesberg is not alone among basketball players exploring their Jewish roots. Amare Stoudamire is making a pilgrimage to Israel (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AnEm.bAkd7TScnU2khSMikK8vLYF?slug=ap-israel-stoudemire) because he thinks he may be Jewish too!

--Jason "Israelis are dreaming of him playing for the Israeli Olympic team!" Evans

It's interesting that Amare is "coming out" as a Jew only after signing with the Knicks. Is this just his agent's creative scheme for increasing Amare's endorsement value once he'll be playing in a metropolitan area with a large Jewish population? Would this still have happened if he had signed with San Antonio or Oklahoma City?

greybeard
08-01-2010, 07:22 PM
It's interesting that Amare is "coming out" as a Jew only after signing with the Knicks. Is this just his agent's creative scheme for increasing Amare's endorsement value once he'll be playing in a metropolitan area with a large Jewish population? Would this still have happened if he had signed with San Antonio or Oklahoma City?

I think that there are quite a few Jews in Phoenix, Scotsdale, etc. Nope, I doubt that this is markteting. Hey, I know, maybe Amare is finding Jewish mysticism; there's a big community of Jews into that stuff in NY. Wow, bet we'll hear soon that he's hangin with Madona.

weezie
08-02-2010, 07:07 AM
I think that there are quite a few Jews in Phoenix, Scotsdale, etc. Nope, I doubt that this is markteting. Hey, I know, maybe Amare is finding Jewish mysticism; there's a big community of Jews into that stuff in NY. Wow, bet we'll hear soon that he's hangin with Madona.

This is all making me chuckle. It's sometimes fun to see how these threads develop.
Amare into the kabbalah, oy!

greybeard
08-02-2010, 10:32 AM
This is all making me chuckle. It's sometimes fun to see how these threads develop.
Amare into the kabbalah, oy!

When my old college friend Steve Belkin became (short lived) managing partner of the Hawks, I was giving him all sorts of advice about who to hire as a coach, etc. Our mutual friend Jane, with whom Steve and his wife were quite close, chimed in that he hire me as the coach--said I was a great dancer and could build an offense around my dance moves. I answered, "Yeah, that would work, an old fat Jewish guy who used to "try" to dance like black guys did 40 years ago is gonna try to teach a bunch of young black guys an offense built around his miserable approximation of ancient black-guy dance moves."

Soo, taking a page from Jane's book, and anything Jane is okay in my book, I'm thinking that maybe Amare could learn the kazatski and D'Antoni could incorporate that into how the Knicks roll. Would bring out the Jewish fans, at least those old enough to know what the heck the kazatski is, which unfortunately includes me. :eek:

SilkyJ
08-02-2010, 04:28 PM
From the "Zoubek signs with the Nets" thread: "10 Undrafted Rookies Who Will Be On NBA Rosters This Fall"

http://dimemag.com/2010/07/10-undrafted-rookies-who-will-be-on-nba-rosters-this-fall/

7. SYLVEN LANDESBERG
Had Landesberg stayed in school another year he probably would have been a first-rounder in next year’s Draft. Landesberg played with the Kings this summer, and while he was overshadowed by teammates Donte Green, Omri Casspi and DeMarcus Cousins, he quietly carved out a nice summer. He averaged just under 10 points per game on 46 percent shooting, and showcased his wide range of abilities: ball-handling, and mid-range shooting among them.

This is 2 weeks old so not news, but I thought it was interesting that they thought he would make a roster this fall. I'm assuming that his Israeli deal means he didn't even get a training camp invite from anyone so these guys were way off.

greybeard
08-02-2010, 08:07 PM
From the "Zoubek signs with the Nets" thread: "10 Undrafted Rookies Who Will Be On NBA Rosters This Fall"

http://dimemag.com/2010/07/10-undrafted-rookies-who-will-be-on-nba-rosters-this-fall/

7. SYLVEN LANDESBERG
Had Landesberg stayed in school another year he probably would have been a first-rounder in next year’s Draft. Landesberg played with the Kings this summer, and while he was overshadowed by teammates Donte Green, Omri Casspi and DeMarcus Cousins, he quietly carved out a nice summer. He averaged just under 10 points per game on 46 percent shooting, and showcased his wide range of abilities: ball-handling, and mid-range shooting among them.

This is 2 weeks old so not news, but I thought it was interesting that they thought he would make a roster this fall. I'm assuming that his Israeli deal means he didn't even get a training camp invite from anyone so these guys were way off.

Possible.

On the other hand, he didn't seem to be adjusting to well at UVa. Come to think of it, when was the last time they had a nice Jewish boy playing at UVa? Ever?

Maybe spending some time among his people, being embraced by them, experiencing the vibrancy of life there, the rich heritage that is his legacy, will serve him well. Like my Zeyda used to say, "couldn't hurt."