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cameroncrazy3104
07-26-2010, 10:01 PM
Assuming that Renfree is the starting QB this year and that many of the games this year are going to have to come down to how well he plays. I was wanting to know what you all think of 2 things 1) his abilities has a passer and 2) his abilities as a big time pressure player.

kyriecrazy2013
07-27-2010, 06:40 AM
After watching Renfree practice for the past 2 years, I know he has INCREDIBLE accuracy. Its really unbelievable. I truly think we are getting an upgrade at quarterback from Thad (no offense to Thad). He isn't quite athletic as Thad but he has a cannon arm and great touch!

Also, he performs well under pressure, at least the times when he has been given a chance. He is always very calm and collected in the huddle and he is an icy man. He is going to do great things!

Dev11
07-27-2010, 06:51 AM
Keep in mind, though, that Sean didn't get a lot of reps in the spring because of his knee. He didn't play in the spring game, so hopefully his rehab went well over the summer and he is ready to go for camp next week. Anybody have any updates on Sean's recovery?

CameronBornAndBred
07-27-2010, 07:26 AM
Keep in mind, though, that Sean didn't get a lot of reps in the spring because of his knee. He didn't play in the spring game, so hopefully his rehab went well over the summer and he is ready to go for camp next week. Anybody have any updates on Sean's recovery?

He is at full speed. And while he didn't play in the spring game, the coaches at that time felt that he probably could have. Up to that point he was still able to participate in some drills that didn't require him running. The N&O had an article and interview with him a few days ago, but their website is down, otherwise I'd link it.

P.S. If he starts off struggling, we will hear to no end that his knee caused all sorts of problems for him, much like with Thad last year and the flu.

DevilWearsPrada
07-27-2010, 08:51 AM
Has Sean's rehab been going well?

uh_no
07-27-2010, 08:56 AM
Has Sean's rehab been going well?


e is at full speed. And while he didn't play in the spring game, the coaches at that time felt that he probably could have. Up to that point he was still able to participate in some drills that didn't require him running. The N&O had an article and interview with him a few days ago, but their website is down, otherwise I'd link it.

....

Duvall
07-27-2010, 09:11 AM
The N&O had an article and interview with him a few days ago, but their website is down, otherwise I'd link it.

Nando (http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/07/22/592184/duke-qb-renfree-eager-to-take.html).

roywhite
07-27-2010, 09:20 AM
Duke becoming Quarterback U? (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/football/columns/story?id=5398054)

Scroll down in this article to get comments about Coach Cut's success at attracting and developing QB's.


It looks like he may have landed another gem in Brandon Connette (Corona, Calif./ Santiago), who graduated early and participated in spring practices.

"I am telling you right now that Connette has a chance to be special. I mean very special," Cutcliffe said. "He will play in the NFL."

jimsumner
07-27-2010, 10:24 AM
I had a chance to talk to about Renfree with Cut a little in Greensboro.

There's no question that Renfree is number one. Interestingly, Connette enters the fall slightly ahead of Schroeder.

Renfree was able to participate in drills this spring but was held out of all contact work. He's described as 100%.

Duke will pass the ball a lot this year. A bigger line and quicker backs should lead to improved running but Duke is still going to live or die through the air.

FWIW, Cut said the top priority in fall practices would be to improve the team's physicality, even it that means more contact work than he'd like.

Cut was very, very complimentary of Renfree, not just his size and arm but his intelligence, his leadership abilities, his work ethic.

devildad12
07-27-2010, 10:31 AM
http://www.dukechronicle.com/article/renfree-prepares-spotlight

roywhite
07-27-2010, 10:32 AM
I had a chance to talk to about Renfree with Cut a little in Greensboro.

There's no question that Renfree is number one. Interestingly, Connette enters the fall slightly ahead of Schroeder.

Renfree was able to participate in drills this spring but was held out of all contact work. He's described as 100%.

Duke will pass the ball a lot this year. A bigger line and quicker backs should lead to improved running but Duke is still going to live or die through the air.

FWIW, Cut said the top priority in fall practices would be to improve the team's physicality, even it that means more contact work than he'd like.

Cut was very, very complimentary of Renfree, not just his size and arm but his intelligence, his leadership abilities, his work ethic.


Thanks, Jim.

I guess the main question I see is whether the team and coaches can put together a decent defensive front. We seem to be lacking in size, numbers, and experience in that area.

Offense and special teams seem headed in the right direction.

uh_no
07-27-2010, 10:41 AM
Thanks, Jim.

I guess the main question I see is whether the team and coaches can put together a decent defensive front. We seem to be lacking in size, numbers, and experience in that area.

Offense and special teams seem headed in the right direction.

i'm of the impression that we are still in a period where the massive gains in preparation and recruiting under cutcliffe will outweigh any losses from experience

yes we may have a younger line without many recognizable names (for casual duke fans) but the linesman that are there are cutcliffe players (with the exception of srs), cutcliffe has shown to put so much weight in physical preparation, I have no doubt that with the people that he has brought in, and the training that he implements that we will be able to field at least an average line on both sides of the ball

jimsumner
07-27-2010, 11:00 AM
Duke's offensive line should be the best it's been since Cut took over, especially if one or more of the redshirt freshmen are ready to contribute.

But the DL, is the biggest question mark. Losing John Drew really hurt. Cut indicated that Duke will employ lots of different defensive fronts, including some 3-4. Duke has more depth and talent at the DE/LB positions than at the DT/NG positions. After Charlie Hatcher, it's all question marks inside. Sidney Sarmiento looked like a keeper in the spring but he's still a redshirt freshman. I think one or more true freshmen have to be able to contribute on the DL and these guys were not exactly five-star recruits.

Interestingly, Jim Grobe told us the same thing, i.e. that he's got more good DEs than DTs and is figuring out ways to make that work.

Class of '94
07-27-2010, 02:44 PM
After watching Renfree practice for the past 2 years, I know he has INCREDIBLE accuracy. Its really unbelievable. I truly think we are getting an upgrade at quarterback from Thad (no offense to Thad). He isn't quite athletic as Thad but he has a cannon arm and great touch!

I'm not ready to say Renfree is an upgrade from Thad. In Thad, you're talking about a kid that was a 4 year starter, tough as nails, and in the record books for passing yards and touchdowns. Renfree, in time may show that he is better; but he hasn't done anything as a full-time starter yet and IMO he as a ways to go to put himself in the position to garner favorable comparisons to Thad. I agree with you that from the practices and the few times he's played in games, Renfree has shown signs of being a good QB; but again, let's not get ahead of ourselves and start comparing him to That right out the gate when he hasn't done anything to warrant those lofty comparisons.

uh_no
07-27-2010, 03:18 PM
I'm not ready to say Renfree is an upgrade from Thad. In Thad, you're talking about a kid that was a 4 year starter, tough as nails, and in the record books for passing yards and touchdowns.

absolutely nothing against thad.....but a lot of the reason for his records were due to his rare opportunity to start for 4 years, which is generally not possible.....I'll be the first to say that I think sean is or will be a better quarterback than thad....but he'll never break his records because he is already a year behind in starting

that's not thad or seans fault, its just a fact, and I think people here are underestimating how good sean actually is

Class of '94
07-27-2010, 03:44 PM
absolutely nothing against thad.....but a lot of the reason for his records were due to his rare opportunity to start for 4 years, which is generally not possible.....I'll be the first to say that I think sean is or will be a better quarterback than thad....but he'll never break his records because he is already a year behind in starting

that's not thad or seans fault, its just a fact, and I think people here are underestimating how good sean actually is

I think you might be underestimating Thad's ability and what he accomplished as the QB for the Blue Devils. I hear what you're saying; and in the end, you may absolutely be correct. My point is that Sean hasn't done anything yet IMO to show that he is currently or will be better than Thad. Let him prove it on the field over time in real games. People can look good in practice and as a reserve; but when they move into the position to become "the man", many fail to look as good. I'm not saying that will happen to Sean; I think he's all the tools to be a good QB; but he has to go out and prove his ability in games. And I may get blasted for this, Thad was a 4 year starter for a reason.....And that included being chosen as a starter over Renfree when Renfree had the opportunity to compete with Thad.

uh_no
07-27-2010, 04:56 PM
Thad was a 4 year starter for a reason.....And that included being chosen as a starter over Renfree when Renfree had the opportunity to compete with Thad.

Thad had the opportunity to start his freshman year due to a lack of competition......not thad's fault.....but had there been a reliable sr qb on the team, no way thad starts freshman year

sean could not have started thad's jr year, he was redshirted
no good coach is going to start an unproven RS freshman over an experienced good senior.....sean could have been peyton manning last year and he wouldn't have started over thad.....

as much as we love thad, it's impossible to look over the fact that he won 1 game in his first 2 seasons.......I can't say what sean would or wouldn't have done had the positions been flipped, but people forget that sean renfree was one of the top 10 quarterbacks in his class coming out of HS, and was picked by david cutcliffe as thad's successor.....do we need to look at cutcliffe's record with highly accurate smart passers? we have a decent line this year, something thad really didn't have the benefit of til last year, we have a system that is built to suit someone like renfree......I wouldn't be suprised if duke's single season QB records go down next year, or if renfree breaks all of thads records in just 3 years......

need we forget what sean did against army last year?

all that said, I agree, we need to wait and see whether he will be successful or not....because he hasn't had any college experience yet

Acymetric
07-27-2010, 05:14 PM
To be fair he has a number of single game and season records as well, and all of those are totally unrelated to how many years he was a starter (except, I suppose, in the sense that the experience could have made him better).

Thad was a very good college QB with a few fairly obvious flaws...yet even with 4 years of game tape on him teams struggled to stop him. Partly due to Cut/Roper's offensive work of course, but you have to give some of that credit to the player, don't you?

Greg_Newton
07-27-2010, 05:18 PM
I had a chance to talk to about Renfree with Cut a little in Greensboro.

There's no question that Renfree is number one. Interestingly, Connette enters the fall slightly ahead of Schroeder.

Renfree was able to participate in drills this spring but was held out of all contact work. He's described as 100%.

Appreciate all the info Jim, but this is especially phenomenal to hear. I was legitimately worried about Renfree being 100% when the season started, and even if so, I wasn't sure if he'd be able to practice fully in the preseason or even participate in spring practice it all. Really great to hear he's been progressing well and is 100% for fall practices, and also that he's clearly established himself as the starter. Plus, an improved O-line is very welcome news.

P.S. I'm try to contain my pitchfork envy as I type this reply...:p

kyriecrazy2013
07-27-2010, 10:31 PM
I have been to every practice and game for the past 2 years, I know what I'm talking about. Renfree is a better Quarterback than Thad. Maybe not as good of an athlete but he has better touch, accuracy, and footwork. Look at his minimal stats from last year. 34 of 50. 4 tds, 2 ints. Not bad given that he wasn't given much opportunity in any of those games to establish a rhythm (save Kansas & Army). And either of the ints could be receiver fault as much as they were his. He has done a lot to warrant these comparisons. He has outplayed Thad as a QB in most practices and when he has played in games he has been very, very solid, even when coming in cool right off the sideline.

duke09hms
07-27-2010, 10:41 PM
That may be so, and Renfree may end up becoming a NFL quarterback, but until he starts doing his thing during the games, we should hold off on sweeping generalizations based off of practice and minimal game time. Let's see how he holds up under the pressure and expectations of being The Man.

Excited for the season, let's go DUKE!!

kyriecrazy2013
07-28-2010, 06:10 AM
He has already been doing "his thing" during minimal game time. I don't understand why people refuse to believe a football insider. I'm saying I've seen him throw and he is more accurate than Thad. All I have said is he is a better "pure" QB than Thad, and he is. He has better footwork too, by far. You cannot argue with that if you know both the players and have seen them play.

nocilla
07-28-2010, 07:29 AM
I am no insider or expert by any means, but I got the impression from the little exposure I got of Sean, that he was a better passer than Thad. Thad made up for that with athletic ability and of course veteren leadership. Thad was able to make something out of nothing by either scrambling or just moving enough to buy time in the pocket. Those things were very important for a team with a limited running game. They are also things that we don't know how Sean will handle. Will he be able to make good throws when the pocket collapses?

killerleft
07-28-2010, 08:09 AM
absolutely nothing against thad.....but a lot of the reason for his records were due to his rare opportunity to start for 4 years, which is generally not possible.....I'll be the first to say that I think sean is or will be a better quarterback than thad....but he'll never break his records because he is already a year behind in starting

that's not thad or seans fault, its just a fact, and I think people here are underestimating how good sean actually is

I hope that every Duke quarterback from now on is an improvement on the last. Ditto for every future players we get at all positions. But, if anything, people tend to underestimate the skill level of Thad Lewis. And I doubt we'll ever have a QB tougher than Lewis. The man is courageous.

Sean has shown that he has lots of potential, and he should benefit from being in Cut's system.

I sure hope everybody who can be at Wallace Wade this fall will attend the games. We should have a lot of fun watching our team get better and better.

The Dawn of Sean- I like it!

OldPhiKap
07-28-2010, 08:16 AM
Remember, a better OL and running game make any quarterback "better". So I'm not sure it is particularly useful to try to compare Sean to any past quarterback. As we improve across all positions, and fit into Cut's system, the TEAM becomes better and both UNITS improve. Cut's bringing in the QBs he wants, and that's good enough for me.

johnb
07-28-2010, 08:35 AM
Thad/Sean

Sean/Thad

Seems safe to say that QB has become our strongest position (?alongside the receiving corps).Should be fun to watch.

If we can hold the other team to under 30 and keep time of possession relatively close, we should have a good shot at winning games.

roywhite
07-28-2010, 08:37 AM
Isn't a QB controversy when you have two guys going for the same job?

Since Thad has graduated after a fine career, and Sean Renfree is getting ready to assume the helm, I'm not sure I see the point of a critical comparison between the two of them.

We'll know soon enough how Sean Renfree does, and there is plenty of reason to think he'll do quite well.

uh_no
07-28-2010, 08:40 AM
But, if anything, people tend to underestimate the skill level of Thad Lewis.

Look, I love Thad, and he had the ability to drop great passes, especially near the end of his career, but even down to his last games, there would still be instances where he would airmail wide open receivers in the flat and the ball would fly out of bounds, other times he would miss guys practically doing jumping jacks they're so wide open down the field while taking the easy way out and pitching it outside for a 2 yard gain.....its that kind of thing I hope won't plague mr. renfree......

jimsumner
07-28-2010, 10:52 AM
Football insiders recognize that poor practice players rarely become good game players but good practice players do occasionally become poor game players.

I'm pretty sure that won't happen with Renfree. He has lots of talent and his level of coaching is world-class.

But there is a difference between doing it in practice and doing it in front of 80,000 people at Death Valley. We're comparing proven production with potential production. I prefer to wait a while longer before putting Renfree in the pantheon.

Biscuit King
07-28-2010, 02:30 PM
What Sumner said.

kyriecrazy2013
07-28-2010, 03:41 PM
I'm not saying his production will be better than Thad's but his accuracy and footwork are superior to Thad's. He will play in the NFL.

-jk
07-28-2010, 04:39 PM
I'm not saying his production will be better than Thad's but his accuracy and footwork are superior to Thad's. He will play in the NFL.

I hope you're right on the money with these predictions! I think we all do.

But we've seen way too many early expectations put undue pressure on a player, only to see people throw him under the bus when he's good but not great, and doesn't quite meet those initial, lofty expectations.

I'll remain (as I always do) cautiously optimistic and let the season play out.

-jk

formerdukeathlete
07-28-2010, 05:26 PM
I have been to every practice and game for the past 2 years, I know what I'm talking about. Renfree is a better Quarterback than Thad. Maybe not as good of an athlete but he has better touch, accuracy, and footwork. Look at his minimal stats from last year. 34 of 50. 4 tds, 2 ints. Not bad given that he wasn't given much opportunity in any of those games to establish a rhythm (save Kansas & Army). And either of the ints could be receiver fault as much as they were his. He has done a lot to warrant these comparisons. He has outplayed Thad as a QB in most practices and when he has played in games he has been very, very solid, even when coming in cool right off the sideline.

Renfree was a Parade All American and has exceeded coaches, expectations, to a significant degree. Renfree was always the best QB on campus. It was a function of learning the offense, and whether to play him as a true freshman. The surprise is Connette, who is more than slightly ahead of Schroeder going into fall camp. He may not beat out Renfree, but he has traction as no. 2.

Duvall
07-28-2010, 05:32 PM
Renfree was always the best QB on campus. It was a function of learning the offense...

That would seem to be a not-insignificant factor in determining the best QB.

kyriecrazy2013
07-28-2010, 08:25 PM
We are talking skill sets about determining the best QB. He was developing and learning the system and playing behind a 4 year starter. Doesn't mean he isn't a better pure quarterback.

Also Connette is SUPER fast. Very quick.

Richard Berg
07-28-2010, 09:39 PM
We are talking skill sets about determining the best QB. He was developing and learning the system and playing behind a 4 year starter. Doesn't mean he isn't a better pure quarterback.
I know what you're getting at, but at some point definitions like this lose all meaning.

Was Greg Paulus the best QB on campus in fall '05? If we talk about things like fundamentals, athleticism, accolades, accomplishments at venues other than a D-1 football game, then quite possibly. But does that make it a useful metric?

SilkyJ
07-29-2010, 12:15 AM
He has already been doing "his thing" during minimal game time. I don't understand why people refuse to believe a football insider. I'm saying I've seen him throw and he is more accurate than Thad. All I have said is he is a better "pure" QB than Thad, and he is. He has better footwork too, by far. You cannot argue with that if you know both the players and have seen them play.

What -jk said, and I'll add that I'm even willing to give you some benefit of the doubt, but its not like you have some long track record or some way for us to know to believe you. Just keep that in mind!



I'll remain (as I always do) cautiously optimistic and let the season play out.

-jk

pbc2
07-30-2010, 07:28 AM
Sean Renfree will be just fine this year, barring injury. However, the quarterback to get excited about is Brandon Connette. He is Duke's best pro QB prospect right now. Just ask Cut, and he knows a thing or two about QBs.

uh_no
07-30-2010, 08:19 AM
Sean Renfree will be just fine this year, barring injury. However, the quarterback to get excited about is Brandon Connette. He is Duke's best pro QB prospect right now. Just ask Cut, and he knows a thing or two about QBs.

I didn't see that quote, do you have a link?

TheTrain
07-30-2010, 08:45 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/football/columns/story?id=5398054

The quote was.... "I am telling you right now that Connette has a chance to be special. I mean very special," Cutcliffe said. "He will play in the NFL."


He did not say that Connette was Duke's best pro prospect right now......many college scouts that I spoke with believed that Renfree would likely be picked in the first three rounds when all is said and done.

roywhite
07-30-2010, 08:45 AM
I didn't see that quote, do you have a link?

I posted some very positive comments from Cut about Cornette in post #8 of this thread.

uh_no
07-30-2010, 08:51 AM
He did not say that Connette was Duke's best pro prospect right now......many college scouts that I spoke with believed that Renfree would likely be picked in the first three rounds when all is said and done.

I was gonna say.....renfree was ranked #10 in his class

uh_no
07-30-2010, 08:55 AM
I posted some very positive comments from Cut about Cornette in post #8 of this thread.

yes, but as complimentary cut is of cornette, he doesn't even come close to going as far as saying cornette is a better prospect for renfree.....coach K said zoubeck would play in the NBA.....does that automatically make him a better prospect than mason plumlee?

renfree was #10 in his class coming out of HS......he may be the best recruit duke has gotten in the past 15 years.....

m g
07-30-2010, 09:04 AM
renfree was #10 in his class coming out of HS

mistaken. he was the #10 qb by one recruiting service

roywhite
07-30-2010, 09:11 AM
yes, but as complimentary cut is of cornette, he doesn't even come close to going as far as saying cornette is a better prospect for renfree.....coach K said zoubeck would play in the NBA.....does that automatically make him a better prospect than mason plumlee?

renfree was #10 in his class coming out of HS......he may be the best recruit duke has gotten in the past 15 years.....

I haven't participated fully in this discussion, but I'm not sure I see the point of trying to precisely compare Thad Lewis, Sean Renfree, and Brandon Cornette at this time. Lewis is gone, Renfree has very little actual playing time so far, and Cornette none.

Isn't it sufficient to say that Duke is in good shape at QB and we'll see how it plays out?

uh_no
07-30-2010, 09:34 AM
Isn't it sufficient to say that Duke is in good shape at QB and we'll see how it plays out?

probably, but that would make this discussion a lot less interesting....

Devil in the Blue Dress
07-30-2010, 10:06 AM
I haven't participated fully in this discussion, but I'm not sure I see the point of trying to precisely compare Thad Lewis, Sean Renfree, and Brandon Cornette at this time. Lewis is gone, Renfree has very little actual playing time so far, and Cornette none.

Isn't it sufficient to say that Duke is in good shape at QB and we'll see how it plays out?

I'm going to do my research in Wallace Wade Stadium.;)

jimsumner
07-30-2010, 11:33 AM
"He is Duke's best pro QB prospect right now. Just ask Cut, and he knows a thing or two about QBs."

I have.

He didn't.

uh_no
07-30-2010, 11:42 AM
"He is Duke's best pro QB prospect right now. Just ask Cut, and he knows a thing or two about QBs."

I have.

He didn't.

he didn't know a thing or two about qb's? thats quite the statement of the guy who coached both eli and peyton.....

The Gordog
07-30-2010, 11:47 AM
he didn't know a thing or two about qb's? thats quite the statement of the guy who coached both eli and peyton.....

Uh_no. He means that he (Coach Cut) didn't say that.

(I've been waiting for the opportunity to contradict you and use your name appropriately in a sentence.)

uh_no
07-30-2010, 12:01 PM
Uh_no. He means that he (Coach Cut) didn't say that.

(I've been waiting for the opportunity to contradict you and use your name appropriately in a sentence.)

the way he phrased his response was vague. "I have" obviously responded to the phrace 'ask coach' thus logically the second response, "he didn't" would be a response to something following.....which would have to be the statement "he knows a thing or two..."

thus the only conclusion I can draw from all of this is that if you ask coach what he thinks about the quarterbacks on his team, he won't know a thing or two about them.

QED

calltheobvious
07-30-2010, 12:15 PM
the way he phrased his response was vague. "I have" obviously responded to the phrace 'ask coach' thus logically the second response, "he didn't" would be a response to something following.....which would have to be the statement "he knows a thing or two..."

thus the only conclusion I can draw from all of this is that if you ask coach what he thinks about the quarterbacks on his team, he won't know a thing or two about them.

QED

Or you could have given more weight to the change in verb tense. If I ever thought that Jim was writing anything outlandish (such as "Cut doesn't know much about quarterbacks"), I would re-read.

CameronBornAndBred
07-30-2010, 12:17 PM
I haven't participated fully in this discussion, but I'm not sure I see the point of trying to precisely compare Thad Lewis, Sean Renfree, and Brandon Cornette at this time. Lewis is gone, Renfree has very little actual playing time so far, and Cornette none.

Isn't it sufficient to say that Duke is in good shape at QB and we'll see how it plays out?
For you and the others that keep spelling his name wrong....
It's Brandon Connette. http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22667&SPID=1843&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204884710&Q_SEASON=2010

jimsumner
07-30-2010, 01:36 PM
"the way he phrased his response was vague. "I have" obviously responded to the phrace 'ask coach' thus logically the second response, "he didn't" would be a response to something following.....which would have to be the statement "he knows a thing or two..."

thus the only conclusion I can draw from all of this is that if you ask coach what he thinks about the quarterbacks on his team, he won't know a thing or two about them."

If I had wanted to say Cutcliffe doesn't know anything about QBs, I would have said "he doesn't." "He didn't" makes absolutely no sense in that context. However, it makes quite a bit of sense as a response to "just ask Cut" and he'll tell you that Connette is a better NFL prospect than is Renfree. Your "only conclusion" assumes that I failed to master sixth-grade English. I'm reasonably certain that assumption is incorrect.

I've had a number of conversations over the years with David Cutcliffe about Duke quarterbacks. I do not believe the assertion that he feels Brandon Connette is a better NFL prospect than is Sean Renfree accurately reflects his views as articulated in those conversations.

formerdukeathlete
07-30-2010, 03:46 PM
Cut said in a very recent interview that Sean knows the offensive system now as of this moment in time better than Thad did when he left. I think it is a given that Sean is a NFL prospect. When Cut made the comment that Connette is an NFL potential QB, it's because folks don't yet realize how good he is. Home schooled, then finally in school for high school, then only starting, effectively one year in high school, Connette surprisingly out performed elite QBs in camps. Stanford offered because his academics were superior, at least partly for that reason. He picked Duke, and we are lucky to have him.


"the way he phrased his response was vague. "I have" obviously responded to the phrace 'ask coach' thus logically the second response, "he didn't" would be a response to something following.....which would have to be the statement "he knows a thing or two..."

thus the only conclusion I can draw from all of this is that if you ask coach what he thinks about the quarterbacks on his team, he won't know a thing or two about them."

If I had wanted to say Cutcliffe doesn't know anything about QBs, I would have said "he doesn't." "He didn't" makes absolutely no sense in that context. However, it makes quite a bit of sense as a response to "just ask Cut" and he'll tell you that Connette is a better NFL prospect than is Renfree. Your "only conclusion" assumes that I failed to master sixth-grade English. I'm reasonably certain that assumption is incorrect.

I've had a number of conversations over the years with David Cutcliffe about Duke quarterbacks. I do not believe the assertion that he feels Brandon Connette is a better NFL prospect than is Sean Renfree accurately reflects his views as articulated in those conversations.

Class of '94
07-30-2010, 03:58 PM
[QUOTE=formerdukeathlete;425283]Cut said in a very recent interview that Sean knows the offensive system now as of this moment in time better than Thad did when he left.

That doesn't necessarily reflect how good Sean is, and I'm not saying he isn't; but I agree with other posters that I think we should hold off on comparing Sean to Thad at this point since Sean has yet to play significant minutes as the Starter and the Man of the offense. I'm not surprised that Sean knows the offense better at this point than Thad b/c this is Sean's third year in the offense while Thad was only in Cut's offense for two years.

OldPhiKap
07-30-2010, 04:21 PM
There's an easy way to determine the relative merits of all three quarterbacks.


Who is tallest?

Devil in the Blue Dress
07-30-2010, 04:32 PM
There's an easy way to determine the relative merits of all three quarterbacks.


Who is tallest?

There you go again, injecting something subjective into the discussion. :cool:

CameronBornAndBred
07-30-2010, 07:19 PM
There's an easy way to determine the relative merits of all three quarterbacks.


Who is tallest?
I'd give you rep points but it won't let me...the message beneath yours blocks the comment part. I'm still cleaning my drink off my monitor.

OldPhiKap
07-30-2010, 07:22 PM
There you go again, injecting something subjective into the discussion. :cool:

I stood next to a guy whose daughter dated a lineman who stood next to Thad one time -- he couldn't've been taller than 5' 8". Amazing to think what records he could have broken if he were taller.

OldPhiKap
07-30-2010, 07:23 PM
I'd give you rep points but it won't let me...the message beneath yours blocks the comment part. I'm still cleaning my drink off my monitor.

. . . and yet, stuck at one pitchfork . . . .

;>)

CameronBornAndBred
07-30-2010, 08:42 PM
. . . and yet, stuck at one pitchfork . . . .

;>)
Nope..at two now...I was able to get my comment in. http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/happy/bouncyblue.gif (http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/posting.php?mode=post&f=3#)

As far as Connette and Renfree, I'm really looking forward to seeing Renfree play, I hope Connette redshirts, and I'm confident that we have an able backup in Schroeder.

Devil in the Blue Dress
07-30-2010, 08:45 PM
Nope..at two now...I was able to get my comment in. http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/happy/bouncyblue.gif (http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/posting.php?mode=post&f=3#)

Maybe you can move me up to two pitchforks, too! ;)

94duke
07-30-2010, 09:53 PM
There's an easy way to determine the relative merits of all three quarterbacks.


Who is tallest?

Should we measure with cinder blocks?
:p

uh_no
07-30-2010, 09:58 PM
Should we measure with cinder blocks?
:p

put pictures of each of them next to the video of kyrie josh and tyler, and use the heights we decided for them in the other thread to estimate our QBs' heights

jimsumner
07-30-2010, 10:00 PM
Not to gum up the works but it should be noted that Duke has a fourth QB. Anthony Boone is a true freshman from Monroe, NC. Did not enroll early like Connette, so no spring practice. Strong arm, raw technique, will redshirt unless the bad-luck boogie settles in. But a good prospect.

DukeSean
07-31-2010, 09:28 AM
QED

lol I always look for a way to insert a QED. nice.

uh_no
07-31-2010, 09:41 AM
lol I always look for a way to insert a QED. nice.

Quit and Eat Dinner baby!

Bob Green
07-31-2010, 12:19 PM
The offensive line getting the job done will be critical for Sean Renfree to be successful. Duke is #51 out of 120 teams in terms of offensive line career starts:

http://blog.philsteele.com/2010/06/02/ol-career-starts-returning/#more-2789

I'm optimistic we will be able to move the ball. Our receiving corps is top notch, the offensive line is experienced, and Sean Renfree is talented. There are some worrisome elements to Duke Football in 2010, however, there is a whole lot of things to be excited about and Renfree is one of those things.

SilkyJ
08-01-2010, 07:48 PM
I'd give you rep points but it won't let me...the message beneath yours blocks the comment part. I'm still cleaning my drink off my monitor.

You inspired me to spread the love. I laughed outloud pretty suddenly myself.

formerdukeathlete
08-02-2010, 05:49 AM
Nope..at two now...I was able to get my comment in. http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/happy/bouncyblue.gif (http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/posting.php?mode=post&f=3#)

As far as Connette and Renfree, I'm really looking forward to seeing Renfree play, I hope Connette redshirts, and I'm confident that we have an able backup in Schroeder.

If you went the spring game I would think you would agree that Connette looked like the better QB, and stats suggested by a wide margin. That does not tell the whole story, sure, but you get a feeling on this one. I suppose, even if Connette easily outplays Schroeder in fall camp, that Connette might still redshirt, were Renfree able to take virtually every snap in every game and a backup used sparingly. Coaches cannot observe, comment on informal workouts. We wont have any feedback on Boone until fall camp starts. I cant see us sitting on our hands with true freshman talent, kind of like Ted Roof his last season at Duke "building" his way into losing his job.

Acymetric
08-02-2010, 04:46 PM
If you went the spring game I would think you would agree that Connette looked like the better QB, and stats suggested by a wide margin. That does not tell the whole story, sure, but you get a feeling on this one. I suppose, even if Connette easily outplays Schroeder in fall camp, that Connette might still redshirt, were Renfree able to take virtually every snap in every game and a backup used sparingly. Coaches cannot observe, comment on informal workouts. We wont have any feedback on Boone until fall camp starts. I cant see us sitting on our hands with true freshman talent, kind of like Ted Roof his last season at Duke "building" his way into losing his job.

When looking at Connette's numbers from the spring game its worth considering that he was playing against the second team defense (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22672&SPID=1843&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204916238). Thats not an insignificant point when comparing his numbers to Schroeder's (who played against the 1st team defense). I'm not saying Schroeder is better, I've heard a lot of great things about Connette, I'm simply saying that comparing performance and stats of the two only goes so far when one had a better and much more experienced defense to play against. Lets see how things shake out after practice starts.

formerdukeathlete
08-03-2010, 10:21 AM
When looking at Connette's numbers from the spring game its worth considering that he was playing against the second team defense (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22672&SPID=1843&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204916238). Thats not an insignificant point when comparing his numbers to Schroeder's (who played against the 1st team defense). I'm not saying Schroeder is better, I've heard a lot of great things about Connette, I'm simply saying that comparing performance and stats of the two only goes so far when one had a better and much more experienced defense to play against. Lets see how things shake out after practice starts.

Or, better yet, refer to David Cutcliffe's comments after the Spring Game,

“I’m really pleased with the crowd that we had,” Duke head coach David Cutcliffe said. “There was a lot of energy and enthusiasm surrounding today. We came out injury free, which is huge. We divided our team up where we had unit-against-unit, in other words, our one offense competing against our one defense, and the twos against each other. I thought it was competitive. The play of Brandon Connette stood out, as it has in a lot of scrimmages. It was good to see us run the football. I thought the offensive line blocked well at times and consistently. I am anxious to look at it and get back into the fall. I think we accomplished what we wanted to accomplish in the spring, and that was to learn a lot about our young football team."

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22672&SPID=1843&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204917021

2's played against 2's.

What about outplaying in the scrimmages?, which i recall reading as Spring Practice had gone along.

I hope Renfree has a terrific year. He is a more accurate passer than Thad, with a better touch. Who knows whether he will be as prolific. As one poster mentioned Renfree's two interceptions were receiver errors. About athleticism, well, when he arrived i believe he ran sub 4.7 40s.

For Connette, the game had already slowed down for him, learning the playbook quickly, reads on defense. This is unusural, as noted by Cut's comments that Connette was a special talent and that he would be in the NFL. Connette has a quick first step; he might be able to run Cut's offense at a pace we have not seen before.

roywhite
08-05-2010, 11:19 PM
Nice feature on Renfree from goduke.com (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204973719)

With the blue uniform, jersey #19, and his passing motion, Sean's appearance reminds me of Johnny Unitas.

sagegrouse
08-06-2010, 07:52 AM
Nice feature on Renfree from goduke.com (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204973719)

With the blue uniform, jersey #19, and his passing motion, Sean's appearance reminds me of Johnny Unitas.

That's exactly what I thought when he came into the game against Army last year: "Giving him #19 is no accident."

sagegrouse

Olympic Fan
08-06-2010, 09:15 AM
If you went the spring game I would think you would agree that Connette looked like the better QB, and stats suggested by a wide margin. That does not tell the whole story, sure, but you get a feeling on this one. I suppose, even if Connette easily outplays Schroeder in fall camp, that Connette might still redshirt, were Renfree able to take virtually every snap in every game and a backup used sparingly. Coaches cannot observe, comment on informal workouts. We wont have any feedback on Boone until fall camp starts. I cant see us sitting on our hands with true freshman talent, kind of like Ted Roof his last season at Duke "building" his way into losing his job.

It's not a matter of sitting on freshman talent ... it's a function of managing the talent in the program.

The problem with using Connette this season is that puts him in a class one year behind Renfree ... so, barring injury, he would likely spend three seasons as a backup and one year as a starter. If he redshirts, then he's on track to start two seasons after Renfree graduates.

Of course, there often are injuries -- Renfree has already suffered one -- and if he goes down, you want your next-best QB ready to go ... and I agree that after spring practice Connette definitely ranked ahead of Schroeder. As a coach, you can't really wait and see if Renfree stays healthy ... you need to get your backup some game action so he's ready if the starter does get hurt.

Tough dilemma with arguments to be made both ways. That's why Coach Cut gets the big bucks -- to make the tough decisions.

In an ideal world, Connette would redshirt this season. I think if he and Schroeder are close in preseason practice, that's what happens. Coach Roper said in a recent interview (sorry it's print, no link) that the perfect scenario for a QB is to redshirt a year, come off the bench behind a veteran for a year and to start his last three years. That's what they did with Eli Manning at Ole Miss and that's what they're doing with Renfree at Duke.

Ideally, Connette can redshirt this season, then back up Renfree in 2011. By 2012, he'll be ready to challenge for the starting job or (best of all) be ready to step in at quarterback after Renfree goes pro a year early -- if only he's that good!

CameronBornAndBred
08-06-2010, 11:48 AM
Ideally, Connette can redshirt this season, then back up Renfree in 2011. By 2012, he'll be ready to challenge for the starting job or (best of all) be ready to step in at quarterback after Renfree goes pro a year early -- if only he's that good!

Completely agree. And no offense to FDA, but you wanted Renfree to replace Thad last year (after it was obvious your first choice, Paulus, was not going to happen). I feel for poor ol' Brandon Connette, next year someone's gonna be there that you will want him replaced with! ;)

Here's a nice update from goduke.com about the offense in general..including this cool quote from Cut.


"Any time you replace a Thad Lewis, it is very difficult," head coach David Cutcliffe (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&ATCLID=1352933&DB_OEM_ID=4200) said. "But Sean has done a great job of earning confidence. Our guys really love him. They know how hard he works and how talented he is. And quite frankly I think they believe very strongly in him."

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204974009

formerdukeathlete
08-06-2010, 05:26 PM
Completely agree. And no offense to FDA, but you wanted Renfree to replace Thad last year (after it was obvious your first choice, Paulus, was not going to happen). I feel for poor ol' Brandon Connette, next year someone's gonna be there that you will want him replaced with! ;)

Here's a nice update from goduke.com about the offense in general..including this cool quote from Cut.



http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204974009

I agree with the poster above your post re redshirt, that is exactly correct, in a perfect world, Connette redshirts and Renfree plays every down.

I disagree with your characterization of my opinions on the qb situation. I am not suggesting Connette is better than Renfree. And, you do recall the poster on page one of this thread who is involved with Football perhaps more than you and I and who watched practices last season, that Renfree was the better practice QB before getting hurt last season. Re Paulus, we are all very happy for him to be at Navy, and he will do a terrific job. But, there is a bit of personal tragedy in all of this. He came very, very close to getting a contract with the Saints with one year of college ball. Had he played at Duke his junior and senior years, he may very well have been heading into his second fall camp with an NFL team. I feel bad about that, for him. It did give Thad a chance to start 4 years. Along the lines of in a perfect world, well how about perfect competition. In that case, you are partly correct in your assessment of my opinion, I do believe Paulus would have lead our qb corps his two years of eligibility for Football at Duke.

CameronBornAndBred
08-06-2010, 06:00 PM
I disagree with your characterization of my opinions on the qb situation.
I hope you understand that was tongue in cheek.
The best part about this debate is that the players we are discussing are all the bright future of Duke football...it is hard to see how Cutcliffe can go wrong no matter who gets the playing time.

OldPhiKap
08-06-2010, 07:00 PM
^^ No, I prefer the old days when you were lukewarm about whatever choices you had.

If you look at the talented QB's that came through Tennessee while Cut was there, it is pretty clear that he knows how to keep the pipeline primed and how to optimize what he has. And he has more right now than we've had in a long time.

Can't wait for the season and the progression of the program over the next few seasons.

roywhite
08-10-2010, 09:32 AM
Some very favorable comments from Coach Cut about Sean Renfree, and others (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204975302) as practice gets underway.


As expected, redshirt sophomore quarterback Sean Renfree took the reins of the Duke offense, replacing Thaddeus Lewis, who finished his career as the second all-time leading passer in ACC history and is now in preseason camp with the St. Louis Rams ... "I thought Sean Renfree was significant tonight," said head coach David Cutcliffe. "He was really, really good all night. He did what I thought he would do. He has mastered the control part of it."

watzone
08-10-2010, 12:42 PM
1 .on 1 audio interview with Renfree, brief - http://bluedevilnation.net/2010/08/one-on-one-with-duke-qb-sean-renfree/

watzone
08-11-2010, 02:52 PM
Nope..at two now...I was able to get my comment in. http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/happy/bouncyblue.gif (http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/posting.php?mode=post&f=3#)

As far as Connette and Renfree, I'm really looking forward to seeing Renfree play, I hope Connette redshirts, and I'm confident that we have an able backup in Schroeder.

I don't even get the pitchfork thing. Some have five overnight, others plodding along with one. Go Duke.

uh_no
08-11-2010, 03:00 PM
I don't even get the pitchfork thing. Some have five overnight, others plodding along with one. Go Duke.

i'm pretty sure its based on posts per day.....so if someone is new and logs a bazillion posts in their first day they end up wiht a lot, but people who have been around for a time can't possibly keep up

jk-jimsumner is a clear counterexample.....maybe straight up moderator determined street cred? who knows

CameronBornAndBred
08-11-2010, 03:32 PM
i'm pretty sure its based on posts per day.....so if someone is new and logs a bazillion posts in their first day they end up wiht a lot, but people who have been around for a time can't possibly keep up

jk-jimsumner is a clear counterexample.....maybe straight up moderator determined street cred? who knows
It = the number of your "rep points". If someone bothers to commend you on your outstanding post (by pressing the magic button), you get rep points; if they bother to tell you that you are horrible for having such useless thoughts, then you lose rep points. More rep points equal more pitchforks. At least that's the way I understand it.

SilkyJ
08-11-2010, 04:54 PM
CB&B is spot on. Pitchforks are tied to comments, which you can make by clicking on the green/red (smile/frown) faces in the bottom left of a post, below the sig.

Good comments = more rep points, more rep points = more pitchforks. It has nothing to do with # or frequency of posts, but instead focuses on the quality of the post.

Per the top of the EK Board:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?21913-Welcome-to-DBR!-%28Please-read%29


If you'd like to, you may add a Comment to a post. On posts especially better or worse than average, rather than saying "POTW" or jumping on someone, you can give a thumbs-up or thumbs-down and add a comment for the original poster. There is an icon, Name: reputation-40b-hover.png Views: 73 Size: 769 Bytes (+/- in Mobile), in the lower left part of each post for this. When you float your mouse over it, you'll see "What do you think of this post?" Remember, civility applies here, too!

Comments are reflected in points, and points are reflected in pitchforks by your username. You can only comment on recent posts, only a few times a day, and you have to spread 'em around between different members. You can see the last few comments you've received on your settings page.

SharkD
08-12-2010, 12:45 PM
So... Any news on Sean from the first week of practice?

CameronBornAndBred
08-12-2010, 01:19 PM
So... Any news on Sean from the first week of practice?
Cutcliffe has been very impressed, especially touting his leadership skills. He said that even though Renfree is only a Sophomore, he is acting and leading like a senior, and that the team is behind him. He also noted that he has had the benefit of being in only one system, unlike Thad who had to learn three different offenses.

Check here for a post practice interview from Cutcliffe.
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204976540

CameronBornAndBred
08-17-2010, 08:09 AM
Renfree impressed in the scrimmage, Connette...not so much. (Which is what you would expect.)
http://www.heraldsun.com/view/full_story/9167884/article-Renfree-shines--but-Devils--offense-sputters?instance=main_article


"Sean Renfree, I thought, played well, especially without the services for a good bit of time from some of his better receivers and some banged up receivers," Cutcliffe said. "Just his total command of the offense is pretty amazing."



Freshman quarterback Brandon Connette was 4-of-13 for 42 yards. He led a drive that advanced inside the defense's 20, but two penalties set the march back before Connette threw an interception.

uh_no
08-17-2010, 08:54 AM
Renfree impressed in the scrimmage, Connette...not so much. (Which is what you would expect.)
http://www.heraldsun.com/view/full_story/9167884/article-Renfree-shines--but-Devils--offense-sputters?instance=main_article

wait....I thought connette was the best quarterback on the team.....just ask coach cut, he knows a thing or two about quarterbacks.... :P

killerleft
08-17-2010, 12:02 PM
wait....I thought connette was the best quarterback on the team.....just ask coach cut, he knows a thing or two about quarterbacks.... :P

I can settle this. Which one is taller?;)

94duke
08-17-2010, 12:27 PM
I can settle this. Which one is taller?;)

To find out, we need each to stand in front of a cinder block wall, separately.
It's the only way to precisely measure. :p

Indoor66
08-17-2010, 06:21 PM
To find out, we need each to stand in front of a cinder block wall, separately.
It's the only way to precisely measure. :p

Preferably with their arms outstretched.