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View Full Version : "America's Dumbest Student" at NCSU?



airowe
07-14-2010, 04:11 PM
http://deadspin.com/5586930/americas-dumbest-student+athlete-nominee-jordan-vandenberg-north-carolina-stateRT

uh_no
07-14-2010, 05:29 PM
I love the comment at the bottom.

"01:14 PM

That was obviously written by his N.C. State tutor."

oldnavy
07-15-2010, 07:21 AM
Granted this is a very poor attempt at an exposition (proof reader, kid needs some help over here), but before we label a kid dumb, perhaps we should try to write something in German (his first language?) and see if it is any better. I doubt that this kid is dumb at all, probably struggling with learning english as a second language.

Orange&BlackSheep
07-15-2010, 07:55 AM
Granted this is a very poor attempt at an exposition (proof reader, kid needs some help over here), but before we label a kid dumb, perhaps we should try to write something in German (his first language?) and see if it is any better. I doubt that this kid is dumb at all, probably struggling with learning english as a second language.

I had the exact same feeling. You could tell that English was not his first language. With so many worthy targets, this feels like simple bullying to me.

FireOgilvie
07-15-2010, 08:19 AM
Granted this is a very poor attempt at an exposition (proof reader, kid needs some help over here), but before we label a kid dumb, perhaps we should try to write something in German (his first language?) and see if it is any better. I doubt that this kid is dumb at all, probably struggling with learning english as a second language.


I had the exact same feeling. You could tell that English was not his first language. With so many worthy targets, this feels like simple bullying to me.

He's from Australia...

He clearly speaks fluent English (with an Australian accent):

http://vimeo.com/7145531

Where did you get German?

El_Diablo
07-15-2010, 08:21 AM
Where did you get German?

The surname?

jdj4duke
07-15-2010, 08:25 AM
I had the exact same feeling. You could tell that English was not his first language. With so many worthy targets, this feels like simple bullying to me.

I agree with you on the bullying comment and will take at face value his primary language being German, but wouldn't one think/hope that something more than what appear to be pretty rudimentary writing and exposition skills would be needed for admission to college? I know that there is some "flexibility" in admission standards everywhere (and even in dear old Durham), but even allowing that English is his second language, is there anything in the writing samples that shows that this young man can handle college (even junior high) level academic work?

While not bullying or piling on the kid at all, but based on this, would he even be able to spell SAT? He may be Hegel in his native language, but unless NCSU has relocated to Munich, it is hard to imagine what legitimate course work he might actually be able to handle. Of course the assumption here is that, 1) he wants to handle such work; and, 2) he will be required to do so.

Good for him that he has an opportunity that he might not get in Australia, but it seems a big stretch that his English language skills will allow him, at least for now, of doing much more than saying "pass me the rock, CJ!"

Would you want him as a member of your team for a project in your business or English class? This one is tough; I don't fault him at all for coming to NCSU, and I have considered all the glass house and stone throwing metaphors that I could recall, but I would imagine that some of the folks in the admissions office in Raleigh are not so happy to see this hit the streets.

Orange&BlackSheep
07-15-2010, 09:37 AM
I agree with you on the bullying comment and will take at face value his primary language being German, but wouldn't one think/hope that something more than what appear to be pretty rudimentary writing and exposition skills would be needed for admission to college? I know that there is some "flexibility" in admission standards everywhere (and even in dear old Durham), but even allowing that English is his second language, is there anything in the writing samples that shows that this young man can handle college (even junior high) level academic work?

While not bullying or piling on the kid at all, but based on this, would he even be able to spell SAT? He may be Hegel in his native language, but unless NCSU has relocated to Munich, it is hard to imagine what legitimate course work he might actually be able to handle. Of course the assumption here is that, 1) he wants to handle such work; and, 2) he will be required to do so.

Good for him that he has an opportunity that he might not get in Australia, but it seems a big stretch that his English language skills will allow him, at least for now, of doing much more than saying "pass me the rock, CJ!"

Would you want him as a member of your team for a project in your business or English class? This one is tough; I don't fault him at all for coming to NCSU, and I have considered all the glass house and stone throwing metaphors that I could recall, but I would imagine that some of the folks in the admissions office in Raleigh are not so happy to see this hit the streets.

I had not read it thinking about the fact that we were reading an essay written by someone in college (presuming this is not an 8th grade writing sample). It does make it less unseemly and more of a commentary on what happens to academic admissions standards in the face of seeking athletic excellence.

Bluedog
07-15-2010, 10:24 AM
I know somebody who was in Writing 20 with one of our basketball players freshman year and the class was told to make certain submissions online so other classmates could give feedback. This player posted the first assignment, but then the instructor told him he no longer had to since it was somewhat embarrassing how poor his writing skills were and could just hand it in/e-mail the instructor directly. I don't want to call out our own players, though, so I'm not going to say who it is. He went on to graduate. So, it's certainly not just NCSU were students are given preferential statement in admissions (the "duh" statement of the year). If we think all Duke basketball players are 4.0 GPA, 2100+ SAT scorers (as in competitive with the rest of the student body), then we'd be sorely mistaken....But I do feel that once at Duke, Coach K and the tutoring team, etc. make large efforts to support the players in the academic pursuits and emphasize that academics are an important part of the college experience. I'd agree that certain programs deal with academics quite differently once the athletes actually get to campus, and I think we certainly do it the "right way."

MCFinARL
07-15-2010, 10:26 AM
I agree with you on the bullying comment and will take at face value his primary language being German, but wouldn't one think/hope that something more than what appear to be pretty rudimentary writing and exposition skills would be needed for admission to college? I know that there is some "flexibility" in admission standards everywhere (and even in dear old Durham), but even allowing that English is his second language, is there anything in the writing samples that shows that this young man can handle college (even junior high) level academic work?

While not bullying or piling on the kid at all, but based on this, would he even be able to spell SAT? He may be Hegel in his native language, but unless NCSU has relocated to Munich, it is hard to imagine what legitimate course work he might actually be able to handle. Of course the assumption here is that, 1) he wants to handle such work; and, 2) he will be required to do so.

Good for him that he has an opportunity that he might not get in Australia, but it seems a big stretch that his English language skills will allow him, at least for now, of doing much more than saying "pass me the rock, CJ!"

Would you want him as a member of your team for a project in your business or English class? This one is tough; I don't fault him at all for coming to NCSU, and I have considered all the glass house and stone throwing metaphors that I could recall, but I would imagine that some of the folks in the admissions office in Raleigh are not so happy to see this hit the streets.

It's probably a little bit unfair to judge this work without knowing the full context of the assignment--these look like brief "responses" rather than formal writing. Nevertheless, what disturbs me most about it is its almost complete lack of meaningful content.

I teach college composition, and English is a second language for many of my students. Often they appear very fluent when speaking but have a lot of difficulty with grammar (like verb forms) when writing--so it's possible that this young man actually is not a native English speaker, though the video suggests that he is. Even when they are struggling to express themselves clearly on paper, however, I can usually see the kernel of an idea they are trying to get across. There is no evidence of that here, as the writer's takeaway from the first event tells us he learned something--but nothing about what he learned, and the second piece reveals he liked the cookies at an event better than the drinks. There is not even an attempt to link his observations to business (the subject area of the class) or culture (presumably the purpose of the assignment).

Still--part of what college is for is to learn to get beyond the limited perspectives you come with (including perspectives on what constitutes adequate work), and the fact that a freshman produced this work is probably not nearly as important as how the instructor responded to it and what, if anything, the student learned as a result. Based on my experience with freshmen, making fun of their early efforts is a lot like shooting fish in a barrel.

Olympic Fan
07-15-2010, 10:45 AM
First, the kid is Australian, not German -- English is his first language.

Second, as poorly written as the assignment was, I doubt it's anyway close to the worst-written assignment in college today.

I had a close friend (who earned his doctorate at the Duke School of Religion), who used to teach at a small college in Eastern North Carolina. He used to share some of his student essays with me. It's unbelievable how near-illiterate these were. Not only badly written, but ... let me give you an example -- he had a student who wrote about Martin Luther and confused the German priest with the American civil rights leader. Pretty great man -- formenting the Protestant revolution and leading the drive for civil rights in America!

I used to be in journalism and in the late 1990s, I was asked to judge a high school journalism contest. It would have broken your heart. I can't tell you how badly written the entries were (and remember these were selected as the best examples) -- let's just say that Vandenberg's little assignment would be one of the the three best-written things I judged.

Third, reading the deadspin piece, it made me suspect that modern electronic communication is ruining this generation's writing skills. My first reaction was that it reads like a fairly typical post on a message board -- poor grammer, poor punctuation, poor capitalization. Just visit the comment section under any article on ESPN or Sports Illustrated. And, if you've seen a high school kid text today ... texting has only the slightest connection to actual writing.

Not blaming anybody here -- I'm equally guilty of sloppy posts -- just suggesting that modern communcation tools are promoting the fast transfer of information at the expense of tradition writing skills.

oldnavy
07-15-2010, 06:13 PM
He's from Australia...

He clearly speaks fluent English (with an Australian accent):

http://vimeo.com/7145531

Where did you get German?

Ahh, nevermind. I thought he was Austrian, like in that little country near Germany.

I still do not want to call him dumb, BUT maybe I am America's dumbest fan!!

My apologies to the board, I've had a hard couple of days at work. :(

swood1000
07-15-2010, 06:24 PM
1. Have you ever read verbatim unedited transcripts of people speaking extemporaneously? They are often filled with expressions that are so rough and incomplete that the speakers themselves are appalled when they read it. When you have it transcribed in a hurry with spell-check turned off something like this can be the result. We probably should give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he was just giving some stream-of-consciousness response without much of a care as to content, in order to have his homework done by class time, and that if he had even proofed it himself it wouldn’t have looked at all like this.

2. On the other hand, there are people who for one reason or another are farther behind in their academics. Seems like a good argument for not making college a prerequisite for entrance into the NBA.

CEF1959
07-15-2010, 06:33 PM
I don't find it particularly amusing that a fellow student would post something like that online just to embarass a classmate. I feel quite certain it wasn't with permission and violated some sort of understanding regarding the terms by which students had access to each other's work.

Nor do I find it funny to see adults who should know better making fun of a college student's specific difficulties in the classroom (which never should have been made public in the first place).

DukeBlueNV
07-15-2010, 06:57 PM
Terps edition...

http://deadspin.com/5588289/americas-dumbest-student+athlete-steve-blake-university-of-maryland

*honestly wasn't that bad... sounds like it's written by a 6th grader but I'm sure there is worse out there... I just really hate Steve Blake.

Jarhead
07-15-2010, 07:47 PM
What more can we expect from an educational system that no longer emphasizes the teaching of English Grammar? Evidence of it can often be found right here on the DBR forums, and it seems that Australia is in the same boat as we are.

4decadedukie
07-15-2010, 09:44 PM
What more can we expect from an educational system that no longer emphasizes the teaching of English Grammar? Evidence of it can often be found right here on the DBR forums.

AMEN!

airowe
07-15-2010, 11:20 PM
What more can we expect from an educational system that no longer emphasizes the teaching of English Grammar? Evidence of it can often be found right here on the DBR forums, and it seems that Australia is in the same boat as we are.

I resemble that remark.

AZLA
07-15-2010, 11:24 PM
I agree, this thread is bunk. It's akin to Dean Smith pointing out JR Reid had higher SATs than Laettner or Ferry (having had inside information via the recruiting process). I'm surprised this thread remains up, considering people have received violation notices for less. I didn't realize this board was an unsolicited advertisement site, posting irrelevant links to draw attention to another blog.

Kfanarmy
07-15-2010, 11:39 PM
What more can we expect from an educational system that no longer emphasizes the teaching of English Grammar? Evidence of it can often be found right here on the DBR forums, and it seems that Australia is in the same boat as we are.

By the way, does the "it" in your second sentence refer to "more," "educational system" or "Grammar" in the first sentence? Is English Grammar routinely a proper noun? just thought I'd ask.

I apologize if my first question is tricky.

MCFinARL
07-17-2010, 10:45 AM
By the way, does the "it" in your second sentence refer to "more," "educational system" or "Grammar" in the first sentence? Is English Grammar routinely a proper noun? just thought I'd ask.

I apologize if my first question is tricky.

Well, ouch--way to spot the unclear pronoun reference. If one of my students wrote this sentence, though, I would probably let it go, because I didn't have any trouble figuring out the reference (I'm assuming it's to "educational system"). I like to save my ammunition for the errors that interfere with comprehension (and I see plenty of them).

Kfanarmy
07-17-2010, 11:27 PM
Well, ouch--way to spot the unclear pronoun reference. If one of my students wrote this sentence, though, I would probably let it go, because I didn't have any trouble figuring out the reference (I'm assuming it's to "educational system"). I like to save my ammunition for the errors that interfere with comprehension (and I see plenty of them).

I try not to comment on grammar, spelling, etc. If, however, the point of a post is about English failures, we shouldn't see any errors. Should we?