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View Full Version : Shelden Williams to Nuggets



Bluedog
07-14-2010, 12:39 PM
Per ESPN.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5378520


The Nuggets made two more moves on Wednesday to solidify their bench. A league source told ESPN.com's John Hollinger that the team has agreed to terms with forward Shelden Williams and guard Anthony Carter and is expected to sign both later in the day. Both deals would be for the league's veteran minimum salary.

league min veteran salary = a bit over $900k

yancem
07-14-2010, 12:48 PM
Hopefully this will mean more court time for Williams. I don't think that he will ever be a star but I do think that he has the skills to be a quality bench guy. I guess we will have to see how it turns out.

flyingdutchdevil
07-14-2010, 12:51 PM
Hopefully this will mean more court time for Williams. I don't think that he will ever be a star but I do think that he has the skills to be a quality bench guy. I guess we will have to see how it turns out.

Doubt it. Denver just signed Al Harrington, and he's expected to spend most of his time at PF. Once KMart and Chris Anderson come back from injury, I highly doubt Shelden to play much...

JasonEvans
07-14-2010, 01:12 PM
I think we should be pretty much resigned at this point to Shelden being a mid-late bench player at best. I don't say that to insult him, but to accept the reality of his situation. He got minutes early last year with the Celtics and did fine, but certainly not anything dramatic that would indicate he can be a more than that mid-low bench type player.

Anyway, Shel has now earned $10.3 million dollars in his 4 NBA seasons. He will make close to a million next year. He is doing just fiiiine.

--Jason "I like seeing Shel playing on good teams too" Evans

CDu
07-14-2010, 01:17 PM
I think we should be pretty much resigned at this point to Shelden being a mid-late bench player at best. I don't say that to insult him, but to accept the reality of his situation. He got minutes early last year with the Celtics and did fine, but certainly not anything dramatic that would indicate he can be a more than that mid-low bench type player.

Anyway, Shel has now earned $10.3 million dollars in his 4 NBA seasons. He will make close to a million next year. He is doing just fiiiine.

--Jason "I like seeing Shel playing on good teams too" Evans

Yup. Any good team is going to have at least 2-3 guys ahead of him in the post rotation. He might be able to play a bigger role on a bad team with limited frontcourt depth. But I think you're right that his role is going to continue to be what it was last year for the Celtics - basically injury insurance.

dyemeduke
07-14-2010, 02:07 PM
I love the Nuggets, and I like this signing. Birdman, KMart and Nene are all good bigs, but they are often injured. We need a fourth guy to be in that rotation, and Harrington will provide that. Still, with the top three bigs being injury-prone, I'd limit games and minutes for those guys and play Shelden. We just need a guy better than Johan Petro or Malik Allen, which I think Shelden definitely is.

CDu
07-14-2010, 02:08 PM
I love the Nuggets, and I like this signing. Birdman, KMart and Nene are all good bigs, but they are often injured. We need a fourth guy to be in that rotation, and Harrington will provide that. Still, with the top three bigs being injury-prone, I'd limit games and minutes for those guys and play Shelden. We just need a guy better than Johan Petro or Malik Allen, which I think Shelden definitely is.

Well, I don't think the Nuggest would purposefully limit games/minutes for their key guys (I don't see how that prevents injuries, and four guys is enough depth that fatigue wouldn't be a problem). But as you said, injuries are likely to happen. So while Williams probably won't see much time at all when those guys are healthy, he may see plenty of minutes after one or more of those guys gets hurt.

toooskies
07-14-2010, 02:29 PM
Both Anderson and Martin are injured and will miss the start of the season. He will likely start the season getting minutes and then ride the pine after the all-star game.

Reilly
07-14-2010, 02:46 PM
Will SWilliams be the Duke player with a retired jersey with the fewest pro hoops points (other than Groat)? Groat had 309 points, but a wonderful baseball career. Art Heyman had 4K pro points per b'ball-reference. Didn't look up everybody. SWilliams has about a thousand right now.

Duke's retired jerseys

10 Dick Groat
43 Mike Gminski
24 Johnny Dawkins
35 Danny Ferry
25 Art Heyman
32 Christian Laettner
11 Bobby Hurley
33 Grant Hill
44 Jeff Mullins
31 Shane Battier
22 Jason Williams
23 Shelden Williams
4 J. J. Redick

Bluedog
07-14-2010, 02:58 PM
Will SWilliams be the Duke player with a retired jersey with the fewest pro hoops points (other than Groat)? Groat had 309 points, but a wonderful baseball career. Art Heyman had 4K pro points per b'ball-reference. Didn't look up everybody. SWilliams has about a thousand right now.

Duke's retired jerseys

10 Dick Groat
43 Mike Gminski
24 Johnny Dawkins
35 Danny Ferry
25 Art Heyman
32 Christian Laettner
11 Bobby Hurley
33 Grant Hill
44 Jeff Mullins
31 Shane Battier
22 Jason Williams
23 Shelden Williams
4 J. J. Redick

Nope.

Jay Williams = 714
Bobby Hurley = 1,032
Shelden Williams = 1,086

Reilly
07-14-2010, 03:18 PM
Thanks for looking those up, Bluedog.

Maybe then Shelden will have one of those hyphenated-type-distinctions that seem to be all the rage (Scheyer is the first Duke player ever with X pts, Y assists, Z whatevers ...). Shelden might be the lowest pro scoring-Duke retired jersey-non-MLB-all-star-who wasn't in a devastating motor vehicle accident.

mgtr
07-14-2010, 03:59 PM
Thanks for looking those up, Bluedog.

Maybe then Shelden will have one of those hyphenated-type-distinctions that seem to be all the rage (Scheyer is the first Duke player ever with X pts, Y assists, Z whatevers ...). Shelden might be the lowest pro scoring-Duke retired jersey-non-MLB-all-star-who wasn't in a devastating motor vehicle accident.

Ah, so very clever! :D

greybeard
07-14-2010, 04:10 PM
This could be a very good thing for Shelden. Next to Larry Brown, Georgie Karl is the best at understanding where and how an individual player needs to get the ball to best utilize his scoring abilities and helping the individual to expand his vision and see more possibilities and execute on them from those positions.

Like Larry, he then gets the other guys understanding how that player can be maximized in the offense, particularly, Billips, and voila, people become more productive.

What Shelden has and the two main 4s don't is an ability to score the ball. No one has played to that strength anywhere he has been, particularly in Atlanta where he started out. That is what Georgie does, it is what he lives for, just like Larry.

Ironic, huh, a Dukie just might get a real breathe of life, a chance that was taken from him the moment he arrived in Atlanta, from a Carolina guy. As the Bard said, "misery acquaints a man with strange bedfellows;" here it might be "new hope."

hq2
07-14-2010, 05:22 PM
Well, the C's didn't resign him, as expected. He gave some pretty good minutes early in the year, then kind of faded near the end as Big Baby took his minutes. Hopefully, the Nuggets will give him some P.T., as they appear to need a little help with defense and rebounding. Hope he works on that jumper some more this summer!

hq2
07-14-2010, 05:52 PM
I don't know. Shelden has basically not shown a consistent NBA offensive game. Since he's a little short and not a great leaper, his jump hook isn't effective against taller players. Both his turnaround and face up jumpers are inconsistent; I've seen him clank a lot of open 15 footers. And, he has another problem as well; he tends to lose confidence and stop shooting when he misses shots or gets snuffed. If he had a good jump shot, it would go a long ways towards helping him be more than a layup and garbage bucket player. Otherwise, I don't see him getting much better.

hurleyfor3
07-14-2010, 07:03 PM
Sorry Shelden, Colorado's full.

biscuit30
07-14-2010, 07:44 PM
I think we should be pretty much resigned at this point to Shelden being a mid-late bench player at best. I don't say that to insult him, but to accept the reality of his situation. He got minutes early last year with the Celtics and did fine, but certainly not anything dramatic that would indicate he can be a more than that mid-low bench type player.

Anyway, Shel has now earned $10.3 million dollars in his 4 NBA seasons. He will make close to a million next year. He is doing just fiiiine.

--Jason "I like seeing Shel playing on good teams too" Evans

He must be doing fiiiine, last time I checked he was still married to Candace Parker.

dyemeduke
07-14-2010, 08:44 PM
This could be a very good thing for Shelden. Next to Larry Brown, Georgie Karl is the best at understanding where and how an individual player needs to get the ball to best utilize his scoring abilities and helping the individual to expand his vision and see more possibilities and execute on them from those positions.

Like Larry, he then gets the other guys understanding how that player can be maximized in the offense, particularly, Billips, and voila, people become more productive.

What Shelden has and the two main 4s don't is an ability to score the ball. No one has played to that strength anywhere he has been, particularly in Atlanta where he started out. That is what Georgie does, it is what he lives for, just like Larry.

Ironic, huh, a Dukie just might get a real breathe of life, a chance that was taken from him the moment he arrived in Atlanta, from a Carolina guy. As the Bard said, "misery acquaints a man with strange bedfellows;" here it might be "new hope."

I like George, but I disagree with about everything you just wrote (respectively of course). Billups is a great point guard before he got to Denver, and he's the one that really took the Nuggets to a new level - not George's vision or coaching. He is a good coach, but more of a hands-off, let the players play type of coach. He does not really design a lot of plays or offensive philosophy - his system is designed around players making plays. It has nothing to do with the players learning from him where and how to best utilize their abilities.

Also, I think Shelden has no offensive game. Nene actually is a good scorer, but he is tentative at times, deferring to Melo and other scorers. Often this is justified, but he still needs to be more assertive - he can score. KMart is also a better scoring option than Shelden, although he isn't a back-to-the-basket player. Al Harrington is though. So, Shelden's best chances of making the court is defense, and I think he'll do fine.

The Nuggets will be limiting KMart's minutes when he comes back from injury, and most likely, him, Bird and Nene will get games where their minutes are not extended.

dyemeduke
07-14-2010, 09:49 PM
one quick comment...I was reading the Denver Post, and did you guys know that Lee Melchionni is Shelden's agent? I found it interesting.

greybeard
07-15-2010, 12:09 AM
I like George, but I disagree with about everything you just wrote (respectively of course). Billups is a great point guard before he got to Denver, and he's the one that really took the Nuggets to a new level - not George's vision or coaching. He is a good coach, but more of a hands-off, let the players play type of coach. He does not really design a lot of plays or offensive philosophy - his system is designed around players making plays. It has nothing to do with the players learning from him where and how to best utilize their abilities.

Also, I think Shelden has no offensive game. Nene actually is a good scorer, but he is tentative at times, deferring to Melo and other scorers. Often this is justified, but he still needs to be more assertive - he can score. KMart is also a better scoring option than Shelden, although he isn't a back-to-the-basket player. Al Harrington is though. So, Shelden's best chances of making the court is defense, and I think he'll do fine.

The Nuggets will be limiting KMart's minutes when he comes back from injury, and most likely, him, Bird and Nene will get games where their minutes are not extended.

Billips learned how to play to guy's strengths and the importance of what those strengths were, from Larry. Ben Wallace became an integral part of that offense during the Championship year and not just on dunks. He caught it in places that larry helped him understand how to read and have multiple scoring options to choose from, and default passing options that he could expect would open up.

Billips gets that kind of info and confidence in the receiver from George's coaching I believe. I could be wrong but I doubt it. Billips wasn't half as potent, and more important players like Ben weren't a third as potent, not a quarter, once Flip arrived. Chance? I don't think so.

I think that George is a great offensive coach for the reasons I just identified. He doesn't tell players what to do, he is not out there hollaring specific plays all the time, he has his people on the same page to get eachother the ball where they can hurt people.

I think that Shelden can benefit from some of that. He was economical and had great footwork and hands around the basket. It is a matter of timing and reads from both ends. Those things can be facilitated, not ordered. George is a facilitator. Go Shelden!

JasonEvans
07-15-2010, 10:41 AM
He must be doing fiiiine, last time I checked he was still married to Candace Parker.

Ummm, you are aware that women's basketball players don't earn very much, right?

The max salary for any player in the WNBA is $101,000. They do get bonuses for All-star games and playoff appearances that can take that up to the $125k range. Fact is, most WNBA players earn much more by playing for European teams in the off-season. Diana Taurasi plays for a Turkish team and supposedly makes about $200,000.

Obviously, Parker is one of the most recognized players in the WNBA so she would also get income from endorsement deals, though I doubt those deals are worth much more than maybe a couple hundred grand.

Regardless, there is little question that the NBA benchwarmer husband earns many times as much as the WNBA superstar wife.

--Jason "thanks to Shel's rookie contract with the Hawks, his family is set for life so long as they don't do anything stupid" Evans

Duvall
07-15-2010, 10:45 AM
Ummm, you are aware that women's basketball players don't earn very much, right?


I'm not sure he was talking about income.

DukieInBrasil
07-15-2010, 11:49 AM
I'm not sure he was talking about income.

yeah, CP is pretty freaking hot, plus, it's always good to betrothe yourself to the most talented person around.

i found this using Ye Olde Google:

http://www.google.com.br/imgres?http://www.google.com.br/imgres?imgurl=http://holdtheweaksauce.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/candace_parker.jpg&imgrefurl=http://wnbaoutsiders.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/&h=518&w=437&sz=57&tbnid=mF28kqaOMV6yHM:&tbnh=131&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3DCandace%2BParker&hl=pt-BR&usg=__OuY8_b7gPrXvW4EM4_tyIH2oqWY=&sa=X&ei=Miw_TJbrA4mduAfrrfCzCg&ved=0CCIQ9QEwAw


down in the middle is a photo of CP and a pic of Shelden. Is the message meant to be derogatory to Shel or to complain that they are married?
Most of the comments from the author are rather sexist, so ignore those if you must.

shoutingncu
07-15-2010, 01:51 PM
yeah, CP is pretty freaking hot, plus, it's always good to betrothe yourself to the most talented person around.

Love and Basketball II?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0199725/

(a great film, in my opinion, should you have missed it)

biscuit30
07-15-2010, 04:59 PM
Ummm, you are aware that women's basketball players don't earn very much, right?

The max salary for any player in the WNBA is $101,000. They do get bonuses for All-star games and playoff appearances that can take that up to the $125k range. Fact is, most WNBA players earn much more by playing for European teams in the off-season. Diana Taurasi plays for a Turkish team and supposedly makes about $200,000.

Obviously, Parker is one of the most recognized players in the WNBA so she would also get income from endorsement deals, though I doubt those deals are worth much more than maybe a couple hundred grand.

Regardless, there is little question that the NBA benchwarmer husband earns many times as much as the WNBA superstar wife.

--Jason "thanks to Shel's rookie contract with the Hawks, his family is set for life so long as they don't do anything stupid" Evans

I wasn't so much talking about what she makes, but that simple that he is married to her.

devildeac
07-16-2010, 12:17 PM
I thought karl was one of the biggest card-carrying Duke haters around. Just sayin'...

moonpie23
07-16-2010, 09:05 PM
i really say a completely different george karl on the espys the other night...

DevilHorns
10-02-2010, 02:31 PM
Shelden impressing. AP report link (http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jlAuqGN8zOxdl_P0fFdoK7s_SaOQ?docId=4705815)

"I've been very impressed with Shelden Williams," Nuggets guard Chauncey Billups said. "I really didn't know what to expect. I only played against him a few times. But he's been very, very solid."

More bit player than bench player during his career, Williams said he's hoping to establish a regular presence in the Nuggets' rotation.
"I knew with Kenyon and Birdman, there was a great chance for me to come in and play early minutes," Williams said. "Hopefully, I continue to play well like I've been doing in practice, establish that early, and when they come back, we'll go from there."

Coach George Karl said he likes what he's seen from Williams in the first week of the Nuggets' camp, though it's too early to define his role.
"I would say he's been one of the top five players in camp so far," Karl said. "He's played very well, his basketball IQ is at a good level. He's kind of a physical guy. He doesn't mind getting hit and doesn't mind hitting people, either. Right now, he's playing at a good level but there's a lot of practices and a lot of games before that decision (on his role) is going to be made."

CameronBornAndBred
10-02-2010, 02:43 PM
"I would say he's been one of the top five players in camp so far," Karl said."
Thanks for the update DH...that's great news. I'd love to see Shelden make it happen in the NBA. (Along with everyone else on this board). I don't know if it's just a matter of finding the right team, or actually working harder at what he does. Either way, best wishes to him that the Nuggets turn into the right fit.

hq2
10-02-2010, 06:51 PM
I'd say Shelden should fit in at Denver as well as he could anywhere. Denver has a number of 6-10 or so bangers (K-Mart, Birdman, Nene) so he should be able to step right in and fit into their scheme of things pretty well. He actually started O.K. in Boston last year, but kind of faded when Big Baby came back. He sort of got a little timid on rebounding and defense after being foul prone, and lost confidence in his shot. I think he'll probably start well in Denver too, but whether he can keep it up for a whole season is still a question. Still, Denver does seem to be a good place to revive Duke careers; Dahntay's time in Denver certainly turned his N.B.A career around with good defense and teamwork. Maybe Shelden can too.

DukieInBrasil
10-02-2010, 06:56 PM
I'd say Shelden should fit in at Denver as well as he could anywhere. Denver has a number of 6-10 or so bangers (K-Mart, Birdman, Nene) so he should be able to step right in and fit into their scheme of things pretty well. He actually started O.K. in Boston last year, but kind of faded when Big Baby came back. He sort of got a little timid on rebounding and defense after being foul prone, and lost confidence in his shot. I think he'll probably start well in Denver too, but whether he can keep it up for a whole season is still a question. Still, Denver does seem to be a good place to revive Duke careers; Dahntay's time in Denver certainly turned his N.B.A career around with good defense and teamwork. Maybe Shelden can too.
I was just wondering what is Shelden's NBA rep as a defender? I know he was excellent at Duke but college reps and NBA reps are often very different.

hq2
10-02-2010, 08:53 PM
I got to see him a lot up here last year. He was O.K., not great. He has decent footwork, and positions himself well. However, he isn't bigger or stronger than most of the guys he guards, so he doesn't really scare most N.B.A. power forwards. In fact, I'd say he's actually about an inch shorter than most of the players he guards. He's also not a great leaper either, so he has a hard time blocking the shots of taller players, and is therefore foul prone too. The upshot is that he is a decent N.B.A. defender, but not a lockdown one. That plus his rather unreliable offense have made him a marginal N.B.A. player up to this point.

Poincaré
10-03-2010, 12:53 AM
I got to see him a lot up here last year. He was O.K., not great. He has decent footwork, and positions himself well. However, he isn't bigger or stronger than most of the guys he guards, so he doesn't really scare most N.B.A. power forwards. In fact, I'd say he's actually about an inch shorter than most of the players he guards. He's also not a great leaper either, so he has a hard time blocking the shots of taller players, and is therefore foul prone too. The upshot is that he is a decent N.B.A. defender, but not a lockdown one. That plus his rather unreliable offense have made him a marginal N.B.A. player up to this point.

Being foul-prone may be at least in part due to being in the general area when Paul Pierce (with 3 fouls) fouls Kobe during the 3 minutes that Shelden is in the game (or some variant of that scenario).

I agree that he's got some room for improvement though. I hope he makes those improvements in Denver.

theAlaskanBear
10-03-2010, 10:06 AM
He must be doing fiiiine, last time I checked he was still married to Candace Parker.

Yeah I was about to say the same thing.

And we all know that Shelden's TRUE profession will be raising a Parker-Williams basketball prodigy.

Poincaré
10-03-2010, 01:15 PM
Yeah I was about to say the same thing.

And we all know that Shelden's TRUE profession will be raising a Parker-Williams basketball prodigy.

I know you're just joking, but let's leave the jokes about Shelden's career to the Duke-haters.

hq2
10-03-2010, 08:04 PM
Being foul-prone may be at least in part due to being in the general area when Paul Pierce (with 3 fouls) fouls Kobe during the 3 minutes that Shelden is in the game (or some variant of that scenario).

No, it was a consistent problem throughout the season, even when he was getting 15-20 minutes a game early on. What cost him overall was fouls, turnovers, and missed shots. That was why his minutes declined later in the year.

Poincaré
10-04-2010, 01:17 AM
No, it was a consistent problem throughout the season, even when he was getting 15-20 minutes a game early on. What cost him overall was fouls, turnovers, and missed shots. That was why his minutes declined later in the year.

Sure. I don't dispute that those are the things that cost him. I am merely observing that, foul prone as he was last season, some of that is attributable to the referees protecting superstars. I think a lot of low-usage reserves, not just Shelden, probably had their foul counts inflated.

So while I might agree that he probably deserved a lot of those fouls, I can also reasonably make the argument that he might have deserved at least just a tiny teeny bit less.

hq2
10-04-2010, 11:39 AM
Well, having seen a lot of the games last year, I don't necessarily believe that. Shelden played a lot during the reserve time (early second, late third quarters) when he was guarding subs too. His main problem was that he was guarding taller players; he had a hard time getting clean blocks.

Billy Dat
10-04-2010, 11:46 AM
I don't think biscuit30's comment had anything to do with Mrs. Parker-Williams' bank account...but I could be wrong.