Bulls offer JJ Redick 3 year / $20 Million Contract

[BigZ]

ESPN is reporting that the Bulls have offered him a contract of 20 million dollars over three years. They have seven days to match the contract.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5368470

[Bluedevil114]

ESPN is reporting that the Bulls have offered him a contract of 20 million dollars over three years. They have seven days to match the contract.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5368470

Please, Please, Please go to the Bulls. I would love to see JJ with the Bulls. A place where he will be respected and get the minutes he deserves.

[K>Roy]

Deng, Boozer, and JJ on the court together would be pretty cool

[MisterRoddy]

Deng, Boozer, and JJ on the court together would be pretty cool

I guess the Bulls would be DBR's designated favorite team?

[FireOgilvie]

Sweeeeeeet! That would be fantastic. He would be competing with Kyle Korver for playing time, who just signed with the Bulls today. Korver shot 53.6% last year from 3-point range :eek:

[SilkyJ]

http://dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=420781&postcount=231

I'm sure the Magic will match that. Probably not even a question. He was scheduled to make close to $4m this year, so going up to ~$6 wont be too hard to justify

[WiJoe]

GREAT for JJ. Will be interesting to see if Orlando matches.

[moonpie23]

i think orlando will match that....

[ChicagoCrazy84]

They probably will, but I like the offer. Man I hope Orlando declines, I would love for JJ to be in Chicago.

[mgtr]

Everybody is different. Climate means the world to me. I grew up not too far from Chicago. In the winter, I now live not far from Orlando -- no comparison for me. On the other hand, $20 million for 3 years would do much to ease the pain.....
JJ has worked hard to be an NBA player, but give a little credit to the Magic.
I don't know if JJ will go or stay, but I hope he stays. If he goes to the Bulls, though, it would probably work out for him.

[sleepybear]

This really is good news. I also hope he gets out of Orlando. It seems like some Orlando players (Nelson, Lewis, Howard) are reluctant to pass to JJ and it hurts him and Orlando.


But will JJ schedule a ESPN hour long show to announce?

[hedevil]

As a Bulls fan, I am praying for this one. Come on JJ. I've said it a million times, I love the interest that Chicago shows for players coming out of Duke. Obviously, it's partly due to the fact that Duke produces solid players who have a team first mentality and play with great competitiveness. If JJ goes to Chicago I'll be more than thrilled. If not, it won't be too bad seeing two dukies on both the Bulls and Magic.

I think playing time might be the deciding factor here just as much as the money. Not to mention, Chicago will probably be in just as strong of a position (in the east) as Orlando this year if JJ switches. JJ would probably earn a starting spot in Chicago as opposed to coming off the bench in Orlando. However, his minutes did rise in the later part of the season (playoffs), so who knows.

[muzikfrk75]

Man, I'd love to see JJ go to the Bulls but I'd be surprised if Orlando doesn't match it.

[theAlaskanBear]

I guess the Bulls would be DBR's designated favorite team?

I've already become a Bulls fan with the Boozer deal...if they land JJ they WILL be my favorite NBA team. Thats hard for me to say because I loathe everything Michael Jordan.

[theAlaskanBear]

Man, I'd love to see JJ go to the Bulls but I'd be surprised if Orlando doesn't match it.

How much cap room does ORL have? Do RFAs count against the cap, or are they exempt?

[Buckeye Devil]

I hope that he ends up there but even if he doesn't, the Bulls have a strong team with Rose running the show, Boozer inside, Korver outside, Deng on the wing (a WingDeng), and Noah doing the intangibles. I really thought that the Bulls were the best fit for LeBron. If they meet up in the playoffs, the Bulls would seem to have a decent chance.

[theAlaskanBear]

I hope that he ends up there but even if he doesn't, the Bulls have a strong team with Rose running the show, Boozer inside, Korver outside, Deng on the wing (a WingDeng), and Noah doing the intangibles. I really thought that the Bulls were the best fit for LeBron. If they meet up in the playoffs, the Bulls would seem to have a decent chance.

Noah, intangibles? Forget intangibles. The kid can flat out play and PRODUCE. I was wrong about him when he hit the league...avg'd 10 and 11 and 1.6 blocks. He is still inconsistent, but he became a monster C from about April-on last year. Putting Booze in the post will free Noah up big time.

[Merlindevildog91]

I would also love to see JJ in Chicago, and hope Orlando will pass on matching the Bulls' offer. StanVan's chatter about how good JJ is and how the Magic want to keep him, rings pretty hollow when compared to his use of JJ on the court. It was clear StanVan would rather play an apathetic Vince Carter than a hustling JJ Redick, and the few times I watched Magic games I got really hot under the collar at the rotation.

Like Buckeye Devil, I thought the Bulls were the best fit for LeBron. Teaming him with Derrick Rose and Carlos Boozer would have made the Bulls really hard to beat in the East.

[theAlaskanBear]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-redickbulls070910

according to here, they frontloaded some of the contract into a signing bonus that makes it harder for the Magic to match! Sounds like the Bulls really want him.

also, I heard the Magic are quietly shopping Vince Carter (tho how quiet can it be if I heard?)...if this is the case, then they are almost assured to match Redicks offer.

[CameronBornAndBred]

also, I heard the Magic are quietly shopping Vince Carter (tho how quiet can it be if I heard?)...if this is the case, then they are almost assured to match Redicks offer.
I agree with that, they can't do without both of them. I'm up in the air on JJ, while I've always been a big fan of the idea of him getting out of Orlando, his perserverance on that team has been amazing to watch. After his early struggles, and hard work, he's finally gotten to be an important cog in their wheel...in hindsight Otis Smith made the right move by refusing JJ's wish to be traded before. It would be fun to see him and Duhon on the court at the same time. What's great for JJ is that it's a decision he can't go wrong with, whichever way he goes.

[PumpkinFunk]

The Magic will match this offer - JJ has a very, very good shot at starting, with or without Vince Carter, because Vince is a lazy, over the hill player these days. During the playoffs, JJ had a performance that Stan Van Gundy can't look past and a lot of commentators were saying he should've been starting. If the Magic don't match it, they have a huge hole at shooting guard.

[weezie]

I guess the Bulls would be DBR's designated favorite team?

Shudder geez, having to watch JJ pound the Pistons would be painful and confusing in the extreme! :(

[RoyalBlue08]

If Orlando doesn't match, I am definitely a Bulls fan this coming season...however I agree that they probably will. Another thought, didn't the Bulls just sing Kyle Korver as well? He might cut into JJ's ability to get minutes, but I guess the Bulls have a plan.

[Wildling]

Here is my opinion.....

I want to see him out of Orlando.

As long as Nelson is running the point, and Lewis is out on the floor, JJ will not get the touches he needs to get his shot going.

Nelson is too much of a me first, ball hog point guard, who rarely looks JJ's way when he is out on the court.

And Lewis flat out refuses to pass the ball to JJ during the course of the game.

I've watched a bunch of Orlando games, and that's just the way I see it. As much as SVG praises JJ and gives him more minutes (well deserved I might add!), it doesn't matter when 2 and sometimes 3 players won't look his way when he is out on the court.

I think JJ knows this and wants out.

[mike88]

If JJ knows he should leave Orlando because his teammates won't pass him the ball, he has done a VERY good job of disguising his intentions. I can't imagine why he would have made his public comments about wanting to stay in Orlando with the Magic if he really didn't think it was the best environment for him. Vince is going to be gone this year or next, and the future looks very bright for JJ there.

[CameronBornAndBred]

"I'm not worried about what J.J. might get from somebody," Van Gundy told the newspaper. "That would simply leave us with a decision, but the ball rests in our court. Our intention is — and I know that from talking to (general manager Otis Smith (http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/sports/basketball/otis-smith-PESPT006842.topic)) — to match."


http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-0711-bulls-jj-redick-chicago--20100709,0,4628473.story

[CDu]

As a Bulls fan, I am praying for this one. Come on JJ. I've said it a million times, I love the interest that Chicago shows for players coming out of Duke. Obviously, it's partly due to the fact that Duke produces solid players who have a team first mentality and play with great competitiveness. If JJ goes to Chicago I'll be more than thrilled. If not, it won't be too bad seeing two dukies on both the Bulls and Magic.

I think playing time might be the deciding factor here just as much as the money. Not to mention, Chicago will probably be in just as strong of a position (in the east) as Orlando this year if JJ switches. JJ would probably earn a starting spot in Chicago as opposed to coming off the bench in Orlando. However, his minutes did rise in the later part of the season (playoffs), so who knows.

No, the deciding factor will be if Orlando matches the offer. Redick is a restricted free agent. So if Orlando matches, they get to keep him (even if Redick wants to go to Chicago).

[ironman]

I never thought I'd be typing this, but Bill Simmons is actually showing some JJ Redick Love:

Via sportsguy33 twitter (http://twitter.com/sportsguy33):

Co-sign. RT @RicBucher: Those bagging on Redick haven't been paying attention. Gritty defender, high bball IQ. Far more than just a shooter.

[nmduke2001]

Orlando may have a tough time matching the offer. The contract would put them over the salary cap and thus cost them double. In addition, they still need to sign Matt Barnes. The Magic would need to trade someone (namely Vince Carter) to stay under the cap and no team is going to take on Carter's $17 million contract. Maybe they could dangle Gortat and Peitrus in addition to Carter.

If they match, it shows a ton of confidence in JJ.

[MisterRoddy]

Orlando may have a tough time matching the offer. The contract would put them over the salary cap and thus cost them double. In addition, they still need to sign Matt Barnes. The Magic would need to trade someone (namely Vince Carter) to stay under the cap and no team is going to take on Carter's $17 million contract. Maybe they could dangle Gortat and Peitrus in addition to Carter.

If they match, it shows a ton of confidence in JJ.

It would seem as if Matt Barnes' tenure with the Magic is over. Also, most GMs and those in the know expect the Magic to match JJ's offer.

[Newton_14]

JJ has signed the offer sheet from the Bulls. The ball is now in Otis Smith's hands. He has seven days to match it or JJ is gonna be in Chicago.

I think Orlando will match it, but we will see.

[BattierD12]

@RicBucher Don't look for a quick answer from Orl on Redick. They'll take all 7 days just to hang up Bulls. 'Cause that's how a competitor operates.

Otis Smith commented earlier today that he expects to sign Redick. Word on the street leading up to free agency was that if the costs to keep him were under $7 million, there would be a great chance of matching the offer.

Matt Barnes was pretty much pushed aside as an option right after the playoffs ended. He's looking for too long of a contract, and the Magic have already punished themselves enough with long contracts. I'll miss Barnes' grit and defense, but his offense (missing point blank shots and layups) and bball IQ leaves some to be desired.

With the big three in Miami set, I think Chris Paul and Carmelo Anthony may start realizing that their teams will not be able to compete with them for a title. Who knows, by next summer, we may see one of those players in Orlando teaming up with D12. Talk about a rivalry.

[nmduke2001]

It would seem as if Matt Barnes' tenure with the Magic is over. Also, most GMs and those in the know expect the Magic to match JJ's offer.

I realize that Matt Barnes has not endeared himself to Otis Smith with all of his tweets and may have talked himself out of Orlando. That does not negate the need for a small forward. JJ generally backed up Carter while Pietrus would back up Barnes. Without Barnes, they still need to sign a small forward. The lack of cap room for the Magic makes JJ's contract much more expensive because of luxury tax reasons. There are a few shooting guards available at a lower price. I agree that they will probably match the offer, but it will cost them.

[BattierD12]

SVG has been asking Rashard Lewis to work more at the 3 this offseason, so it's looking like that the Magic may look like a more traditional team next year. If Bass or Anderson up their game big time, one of those two will start, the other will back up. Another option brought up is Gortat playing the 4, but I really dont want to see this happening unless Gortat takes the Nolan Smith summer course and goes crazy next year. A Gortat trade has also been thrown around, focusing on getting a 4. If Shard plays at the 3, the need to resign Barnes or another SF is minimal.

[mike88]

Orlando may have a tough time matching the offer. The contract would put them over the salary cap and thus cost them double. In addition, they still need to sign Matt Barnes. The Magic would need to trade someone (namely Vince Carter) to stay under the cap and no team is going to take on Carter's $17 million contract. Maybe they could dangle Gortat and Peitrus in addition to Carter.

If they match, it shows a ton of confidence in JJ.

I believe the Magic are over the salary cap whether or not they match JJ. I don't think they have the goal of getting under the cap, although they may decide to trade Vince later in the year anyway. The decision last year to match Gortat showed that the Magic's ownership was willing to spend into the luxury tax range if Otis Smith felt it was necessary. I believe they will continue that policy this year with the new arena opening.

[mgtr]

Noah, intangibles? Forget intangibles. The kid can flat out play and PRODUCE. I was wrong about him when he hit the league...avg'd 10 and 11 and 1.6 blocks. He is still inconsistent, but he became a monster C from about April-on last year. Putting Booze in the post will free Noah up big time.

I agree completely, but when I stated that right after he was drafted by the Bulls a few years ago (time kind of merges when you get my age -- you'll see) I was ripped a completely new one. I clearly knew nothing and didn't understand the game. Sorry - all I said that the Bulls would have a pretty good team with Noah.

[BigZ]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-0711-bulls-jj-redick-chicago--20100709,0,4628473.story

that quote by SVG was in general terms of potential JJ offers it wasn't after the Chicago offer. So who knows if they will match now that the Bulls have made a pretty high price.

[greybeard]

I think morereilly is right and stan knows it and will have to let JJ go because of it. I do not think that those guys, or the big guy for that matter, will ever play to JJ's strength and let him be the shooter he needs to be, which means giving it to him if he misses 5 in a row. The guy is a world class shooter and they are treating him as if he is only as good as his last shot.

Stan created JJ's lack of standing among the players on this team and he is powerless to change it. They want to keep JJ, Stan has to go, which will not happen. I say they let him leave.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I think morereilly is right and stan knows it and will have to let JJ go because of it. I do not think that those guys, or the big guy for that matter, will ever play to JJ's strength and let him be the shooter he needs to be, which means giving it to him if he misses 5 in a row. The guy is a world class shooter and they are treating him as if he is only as good as his last shot.

This is one of the reasons I've hated his situation in Orlando. JJ had his slumps in Durham, lots of shooters have. Coach K has never taken the ball out of their hands though, he knew that the only way through it was to shoot again. As I said before, I'm happy to follow JJ on either team (since he will be with another Dukie either way), but you make a good point as to why he might be wishing for elsewhere.

[-bdbd]

In one of the articles the Orlando GM gave an initial gut feeling, though early, that they would probably match Chicago. So I'd bet on that being more likely the case. I think, from a JJ fan view, that Chicago might be more immediately good for him stats-wise and PT-wise, but if VC's departure is truly a year or less away, and the Magic have just invested $20M in him, then it could be argued that ORL may be the better long-term option. Neither is a bad gig, and I love him feeling all of this love.

BTW, anybody know the rules? I assume that if ORL matches CHI, then neither CHI nor any other teams gets a chance to make a better offer before he must sign in Mickey-town??


:confused:

[BigZ]

I talked to a friend of mine who is a big Magic fan and his belief is that they will try and move either Vince or Gortat before the seven days are up and if they can they will keep JJ and if they can't they will probably let him go.

[mgtr]

Gortat makes a real contribution, but he may be much easier to move than Vince. Vince's time has past -- I say move him no matter how much of his contract you have to swallow. The team will be improved without him, and definitely improved if they keep JJ. Clsoe call, though.

[greybeard]

Gortat makes a real contribution, but he may be much easier to move than Vince. Vince's time has past -- I say move him no matter how much of his contract you have to swallow. The team will be improved without him, and definitely improved if they keep JJ. Clsoe call, though.

I do not think that Nelson, Lewis, or even Howard, see JJ as a potential deadly scorer whom they need to get the ball to when open and doubt that they ever will. That is Stan's doing and I would have to think that that attitude has currency in other players whose names I don't know but they are the forwards, starter and first sub.

I think that they need to let JJ go where he can be the shooter/scorer that he is. The penetration off the bounce is a nice addition, and I like the new body and the ability to man up. However, the guy needs to get it to shoot with his teammates' blessing to realize his potential. With his current teammates, he is as good as his last shot. Bye Orlando.

[theAlaskanBear]

Ok, so I have some significant information about Orlando's cap space and matching the Bulls offer.

JJ's return to Orlando might be a lot less likely than we think. The Magic are already over the salary cap and into luxury tax territory. So if they match JJ's offer from the Bulls, then they will owe the league a $1 for $1 tax.

That means that Redick won't cost the Magic $7mil, but $14mil to back up VC who makes $16mil. That's some serious cheese for a player like Redick.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_redick_100710.html


Orlando already has $80 million committed to eight players, Carter, Rashard Lewis, Dwight Howard, Jameer Nelson, Marcin Gortat, Mickael Pietrus, Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson. The roster minimum is 13, leaving them five short.

Retaining Redick puts them at $87 million with still four players to add. With the luxury tax kicking in at about $70 million, that could be a $40 million to $50 million tax for Orlando. Yes, they are getting a new arena, but can you afford to be in that position to retain your bench players? It’s a question the Magic will ponder for the next week.

[SilkyJ]

I do not think that Nelson, Lewis, or even Howard, see JJ as a potential deadly scorer whom they need to get the ball to when open and doubt that they ever will. That is Stan's doing and I would have to think that that attitude has currency in other players whose names I don't know but they are the forwards, starter and first sub.

I don't know about this being "Stan's doing," at least not after this year with all the PT and crunchtime minutes JJ played. Stan showed a lot of confidence in him playing him in big situations throughout the season and playoffs. Not to mention, he definitely runs plays for JJ when he is out there trying to get him shots or have him create, usually running him off screens for the former or running pick and rolls for the latter.


Ok, so I have some significant information about Orlando's cap space and matching the Bulls offer.

JJ's return to Orlando might be a lot less likely than we think. The Magic are already over the salary cap and into luxury tax territory. So if they match JJ's offer from the Bulls, then they will owe the league a $1 for $1 tax.

That means that Redick won't cost the Magic $7mil, but $14mil to back up VC who makes $16mil. That's some serious cheese for a player like Redick.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_redick_100710.html

Interesting. I guess my problem with thinking ORL won't sign him is that they knew all this information before JJ got the offer and I think this is the type of offer most were expecting for JJ, (though $7mm may have been a tad on the high side -- at least it was for me) so why would they have been making those statements about intending to match? Obviously could have been posturing, but I think its tough to just assume that. I have to think they were being at least pretty genuine.

[amat1129]

i would love to see him go to a new system that truly values him while i think orlando takes him for granted and hinders him with inconsistent pt. Unless melo and cp3 go to orlando in the next year and form a better super team in which case jj would be terrific as their starting sg, then he and scheyer can battle it out in the eastern conference finals

[mgtr]

When is the drop dead date on this offer?

[CameronBornAndBred]

When is the drop dead date on this offer?
7 days after the initial offer, so it would be Saturday the 17th.

[sagegrouse]

When is the drop dead date on this offer?

Seven days after the offer was signed by JJ, which apparently was on July 9. That would make the deadline July 16, which is this Friday.

One would expect Orlando to take the max time to see if they can clear cap space for JJ or to see if some other team has a really good deal for the Magic.

I think we take SVG at face value when he says the Magic want to re-sign JJ, which I take to mean "no problem" if he wants to re-up at his current salary. But note that Coach Stan didn't say "at any price."

sagegrouse

[MIKESJ73]

I don't think any Magic fans thought JJ would get this high of an offer. I have been on their message boards for years and before this offer came out they were worried someone might offer 5 mil/year. They really believed they would be able to retain him for 4 mil which is still a huge increase in salary. There are rumors that the Bulls will be paying him 8.5 mil the first year. I really dont think the Magic can match. Bringing in Duhon to the 2nd unit with JJ would have been great to see. I have said for years JJ would not be successful playing with Jameer (poor short defender/shoot first PG). Where ever he ends up, he makes at least 19 mil on a top notch team, which is a pretty sweet deal.



http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/10/sharpshooters-redick-morrow-look-for-new-homes/#cntnt

[flyingdutchdevil]

Why do people think that JJ will be better off in Chicago? Have you seen Derrick Rose play? He is an unbelievable talent, but he is an incredible ball hog. For someone with his speed and agility, 6 assists per game is terrible (J. Nelson has 5.4 assists per game, in case your wondering)! Also, Boozer and Noah aren't known for their passing, either. JJ in Chicago would definitely get a lot of minutes, but he still may not necessarily get more opportunities.

Frankly, his situation in Orlando isn't bad. He is the 6th/7th man for one of the most talented teams in the country that will continue to be a threat for the next 5-6 years (or at least until D. Howard stays and is in his prime).

[Wildling]

I don't know about this being "Stan's doing," at least not after this year with all the PT and crunchtime minutes JJ played. Stan showed a lot of confidence in him playing him in big situations throughout the season and playoffs. Not to mention, he definitely runs plays for JJ when he is out there trying to get him shots or have him create, usually running him off screens for the former or running pick and rolls for the latter.


I'll agree with this. However the problem is the players on the court with JJ. I try and watch every Magic game I can when they are on TV, and even though Stan calls a play for JJ, I would say 40-50% of the time they get him the ball on that set play. He's open, but they won't pass him the ball.

I think Dwight Howard and JJ play a great inside out game together, and Dwights feels comfortable with JJ. It does help that JJ feeds the ball to the big fella every chance he can get too.

But I'll say it again, when Nelson is out there with JJ, it's clear JJ is the last option and the last person he'll pass it to when he is out on the floor.

The situation is even worse if the overpaid 128 million dollar flop Rashard Lewis is out on the floor with JJ too. I'm not even sure Rashard acknowledges JJ is his teammate it's so obvious he won't pass him the ball.


i would love to see him go to a new system that truly values him while i think orlando takes him for granted and hinders him with inconsistent pt. Unless melo and cp3 go to orlando in the next year and form a better super team in which case jj would be terrific as their starting sg, then he and scheyer can battle it out in the eastern conference finals

I think the Orlando organization values JJ and his abilities a lot. So does SVG. The problem now is the players need to realize the value he brings.

As much heat as SVG got for not playing JJ the past couple of years, this year SVG see's the effort and the heart JJ has. He can't afford not to play him. SVG's problem and ultimately JJ's too, is SVG has an $17 million a year player that the organization traded for to start in JJ's place.

I have nothing to back this up other than a couple of rumors. But I do think Orlando is trying to move VC, and have been for a while now. They saw his value in the playoffs this year, and if I am the owner, he's gotta go. I do think the Magic Brass see the mistakes they made in trading for VC now. Trading VC and singing JJ would be a huge burden off the payroll.

[theAlaskanBear]

As much heat as SVG got for not playing JJ the past couple of years, this year SVG see's the effort and the heart JJ has. He can't afford not to play him. SVG's problem and ultimately JJ's too, is SVG has an $17 million a year player that the organization traded for to start in JJ's place.

I have nothing to back this up other than a couple of rumors. But I do think Orlando is trying to move VC, and have been for a while now. They saw his value in the playoffs this year, and if I am the owner, he's gotta go. I do think the Magic Brass see the mistakes they made in trading for VC now. Trading VC and singing JJ would be a huge burden off the payroll.

They ARE shopping Vince...there were rumors of a Utah-Orl sign-and-trade that would send Boozer to the Magic. But they have to get BETTER. And dont forget they will still have to take on $ contracts when they trade Vince, because he has two years left on his deal and no one is going to take $32mil for free.

Everyone knows that the organization WANTS Redick...but its a question of ownership and dollar value. The Magic are in a situation where they could be paying as much as $40mil in the luxury tax...a front loaded contract that costs the magic 14-16 mill THIS YEAR only is devastatingly high for a player like Redick...That means Orl pays between 27-30 mil (depending on how frontloaded the contract is) for 3-years not including luxury tax hits next year or the year after.

[Trooper]

Why do people think that JJ will be better off in Chicago? Have you seen Derrick Rose play? He is an unbelievable talent, but he is an incredible ball hog. For someone with his speed and agility, 6 assists per game is terrible (J. Nelson has 5.4 assists per game, in case your wondering)! Also, Boozer and Noah aren't known for their passing, either. JJ in Chicago would definitely get a lot of minutes, but he still may not necessarily get more opportunities.

Frankly, his situation in Orlando isn't bad. He is the 6th/7th man for one of the most talented teams in the country that will continue to be a threat for the next 5-6 years (or at least until D. Howard stays and is in his prime).

Actually, you're pretty far off base on the Bulls as a passing team. Noah is widely considered one of the best passing big men in the NBA. In college, he was often the focal point of the offense and used as a distributor to Humphrey, Horford, and Brewer.

Boozer didn't do much other than finish teammates great passes in college, but he has actually developed into an excellent interior post passer in the NBA. In order to run Sloan's offense in Utah, it requires you to always find and hit the open cutter...Carlos has become very adept at big to big passes in the lane and ball reversal to the open shooter.

You are correct in that Rose hasn't been a great passer, but it's not because he's selfish or a ball hog. The coaching staff has actually had to ride him for not shooting enough and taking over games when he can. His low assist figures are mostly because he just turned 21 years old and is still learning. He doesn't have that innate passing gene where he sees the court quicker than everyone else like a Steve Nash does, but he's willing to find the open man when he sees him. His court sense and awareness will improve over time.

Also, keep in mind that the Bulls other options last year on offense were very limited. His 2 guard, Hinrich, is not a knockdown shooter. His power forward, Gibson, and center, Noah, were both defensive players who don't reliably score or knockdown shots. The only real offensive threat on the court with him was Deng, and even he can't really knock down an open 3 (he made 32 all of last season).

With Boozer finishing plays inside and Korver and (hopefully) JJ knocking down open threes, I'll be very surprised if Rose doesn't wind up averaging 8+ assists a game this season.

[superdave]

If Orlando wants to move Vince Carter, what is the market? Allegedly, Carter for one Gilbert Arenas has been mentioned. Two teams would basically have to swap bad contracts to feel good about doing it. Personally, I'd love to see Carter traded to a team in Korea or Russia - some place cold and dark.

Short of Carter getting traded, I'm not sure what Orlando will do. Matt Barnes may be leaving too. If they lose Redick and Barnes and Jason Williams, that's most of their bench. (or did Barnes start?)

Orlando needs another player to get back into title contention. And Carter is worth more as a trade chip a year from now when his contract will be in its expiring year. Not a great position for them right now.

[Cockabeau]

I want JJ out of Orlando. His teamates almost never get him the ball in a good position.To me, Jameer Nelson in particular seems to have a bone to pick with JJ. What a terrible passing PG he is...

[UrinalCake]

This might sound a little dumb, but for which ever team he ends up with, signing a big contract should allow him to get the ball more. It seems to be in the mindset of NBA coaches that if a player is highly paid, he should be getting playing time/touches, even though in reality his salary is a sunk cost. So JJ's career is looking up regardless of whether it's in Chicago or Orlando, as he's starting to be recognized and rewarded for his hard work and abilities.

[DevilHorns]

I want JJ out of Orlando. His teamates almost never get him the ball in a good position.To me, Jameer Nelson in particular seems to have a bone to pick with JJ. What a terrible passing PG he is...

Jameer Nelson thinks he is a one man wrecking crew. He doesn't have a bone to pick with JJ in particular. He's like that with everyone. IMO, one of the most overrated players in the league.

[sagegrouse]

This might sound a little dumb, but for which ever team he ends up with, signing a big contract should allow him to get the ball more. It seems to be in the mindset of NBA coaches that if a player is highly paid, he should be getting playing time/touches, even though in reality his salary is a sunk cost.

Uh, Mr. U.C.: I think there is a problem with your direction of causation. GM's will pay big bucks only to starters. Therefore, JJ will get a large contract if and only if the plan is for him to be a starter. Even if a guaranteed salary is a sunk cost, the intent was to sign a starter. Does that mean that players with big contracts don't sit on the bench? No, sometimes you make mistakes, or the player wanes over the length of a L-T contract, or a lesser-known player just has to be played.

sagegrouse

[UrinalCake]

That's kind of my point - if a guy signs a big contract, or is drafted really highly, but then doesn't play well, he'll still get playing time because the team has invested so much in him. Chicago isn't going to pay him $7-ish million to sit on the bench for 30 minutes of the game. They've committed to making him a highly paid player and thus are committing to making him an integral part of the team. The same is true for Orlando if they were to re-sign him. But if he had never gotten this offer and Orlando had re-signed him for, say, $3 million, then he might have ridden the pine more even though he's the exact same player. I know this doesn't make a lot of sense, I just think this is part of how the dynamics of the team works.

[CDu]

That's kind of my point - if a guy signs a big contract, or is drafted really highly, but then doesn't play well, he'll still get playing time because the team has invested so much in him. Chicago isn't going to pay him $7-ish million to sit on the bench for 30 minutes of the game. They've committed to making him a highly paid player and thus are committing to making him an integral part of the team. The same is true for Orlando if they were to re-sign him. But if he had never gotten this offer and Orlando had re-signed him for, say, $3 million, then he might have ridden the pine more even though he's the exact same player. I know this doesn't make a lot of sense, I just think this is part of how the dynamics of the team works.

The causation point holds. Chicago would only pay him $7 million per year if they think he'll be a starter. If they shortly thereafter find out he's not a starter (this would of course assume Orlando doesn't match), then he'll find his way to the bench. Chicago (as are many other teams) is quite willing to sit a highly-paid player. They sent Tim Thomas and his $10+ million home rather than have him on the team. Lots of highly-paid players get no playing time. They may have gotten a longer look up front, but if they can't cut it, they frequent don't play, regardless of contract.

[theAlaskanBear]

If Orlando wants to move Vince Carter, what is the market? Allegedly, Carter for one Gilbert Arenas has been mentioned. Two teams would basically have to swap bad contracts to feel good about doing it. Personally, I'd love to see Carter traded to a team in Korea or Russia - some place cold and dark.

Short of Carter getting traded, I'm not sure what Orlando will do. Matt Barnes may be leaving too. If they lose Redick and Barnes and Jason Williams, that's most of their bench. (or did Barnes start?)

Orlando needs another player to get back into title contention. And Carter is worth more as a trade chip a year from now when his contract will be in its expiring year. Not a great position for them right now.

No you are correct, I think the Bulls front office knows this, and it's part of the reason they went after Redick. They also have interest in Anthony Morrow, which may well be a better choice, but Golden State has plenty of cap room to match any contract offer and they say they will match. So the Bulls go after Redick before Orlando locks him up again, because now they have 7 days trade Vince or they will have to pay $14mil plus for JJ as a role-player back up...really, quite a smart move by the Bulls.

I am loving the way this Bulls team is coming together...I really have no other choice to root for the Bulls next year. By the way, there is a great press conference on the bulls website with Boozer, Gar Foreman, and the new coach Tom Thib. Pretty funny Carlos winked and gave away the Kyle Korver deal before it was done...also they fielded a lot of questions about LeBron and Boozer had some interesting remarks!

[CDu]

No you are correct, I think the Bulls front office knows this, and it's part of the reason they went after Redick. They also have interest in Anthony Morrow, which may well be a better choice, but Golden State has plenty of cap room to match any contract offer and they say they will match. So the Bulls go after Redick before Orlando locks him up again, because now they have 7 days trade Vince or they will have to pay $14mil plus for JJ as a role-player back up...really, quite a smart move by the Bulls.

I am loving the way this Bulls team is coming together...I really have no other choice to root for the Bulls next year. By the way, there is a great press conference on the bulls website with Boozer, Gar Foreman, and the new coach Tom Thib. Pretty funny Carlos winked and gave away the Kyle Korver deal before it was done...also they fielded a lot of questions about LeBron and Boozer had some interesting remarks!

There has been some talk still about what happens with Deng. On the one hand, he's a great 3rd/4th option who can defend a little too. On the other hand, he isn't a lockdown defender and he's not a great outside shooter, and he's not a guy who can create his own shot. If the Bulls do get both Korver and Redick, they may want to try to add a more athletic, defensive-oriented swing man. That might make Deng a trade piece again.

Or, maybe Thibadeau can work his magic with a defensive system that can maximize Deng's attributes.

[UrinalCake]

Lots of highly-paid players get no playing time. They may have gotten a longer look up front, but if they can't cut it, they frequent don't play, regardless of contract.

As a rebuttal to your point, I present Vince Carter's numbers from last year:

SEASON:
G 75
MIN 30.8
FG% .428
3P% .367
FT% .840
REB 3.9
STL 0.71
BLK 0.24
TO 1.41
ASST 3.1
PTS 16.6


PLAYOFFS:
G 14
MIN 34.3
FG% .402
3P% .235
FT% .826
REB 4.2
STL 0.86
BLK 0.21
TO 1.57
ASST 2.3
PTS 15.5


So despite being a average-at-best shooting guard for the regular season, his minutes go UP in the playoffs even though he's playing like crap. You can't tell me that this isn't because he was their highly-paid, marquee free agent pickup. And of course this playing time came at the expense of JJ Redick (see, I knew I was keeping this thread on topic 8-))

[UrinalCake]

BTW aren't Korver and Redick pretty similar players? I don't know a lot about Korver other than he hits a high percentage of his threes.

[theAlaskanBear]

BTW aren't Korver and Redick pretty similar players? I don't know a lot about Korver other than he hits a high percentage of his threes.

Yes and no. Korver is much bigger! 6-7 212...look at him next to Boozer they are almost the same height. Korver has evolved into catch and shoot small forward threat who really spreads the floor.

JJ has the same attributes: good freethrow shooter, good 3-pt...but he goes about in more of a guard/ball-handling way. More versatile scorer, better passer, etc.

Korver will be used as a back up for Deng or to spread out the D. Redick would be a starter and also assist in play-making aspects of the game, as well as guarding the 2-spot.

[CDu]

As a rebuttal to your point, I present Vince Carter's numbers from last year:

SEASON:
G 75
MIN 30.8
FG% .428
3P% .367
FT% .840
REB 3.9
STL 0.71
BLK 0.24
TO 1.41
ASST 3.1
PTS 16.6


PLAYOFFS:
G 14
MIN 34.3
FG% .402
3P% .235
FT% .826
REB 4.2
STL 0.86
BLK 0.21
TO 1.57
ASST 2.3
PTS 15.5


So despite being a average-at-best shooting guard for the regular season, his minutes go UP in the playoffs even though he's playing like crap. You can't tell me that this isn't because he was their highly-paid, marquee free agent pickup. And of course this playing time came at the expense of JJ Redick (see, I knew I was keeping this thread on topic 8-))

First, I wouldn't call Carter's regular season numbers "average at best." They weren't in line with his salary, but they weren't average. Carter saw more minutes because starters generally get more minutes. The rotations decrease (due to more time off) and teams start to try to maximize their mismatches. Carter has had a history of being a superstar type scorer, and that's why he got the minutes - not because of his salary (which he got because he was a superstar scorer). The Magic hoped that they would see the old Carter (or even the Carter from last year) bounce back.

Second, I didn't say that there are no players who get preferential treatment due to their salary. Just that it is quite common for high-salary players who don't perform to get the axe in the NBA. And generally speaking (again, that's not an absolute), if you don't perform, you don't play. So citing one example (while certainly pertinent to Redick) doesn't exactly disprove my point.

Redick's performance to this point dictated the offer, which is based on the role that the Bulls think he'd play for them. They envision him as a starter, which is why he got that offer. However, if he fails to meet expectations, he'll get benched. They won't force his playing time simply because he has a salary.

[CDu]

Yes and no. Korver is much bigger! 6-7 212...look at him next to Boozer they are almost the same height. Korver has evolved into catch and shoot small forward threat who really spreads the floor.

JJ has the same attributes: good freethrow shooter, good 3-pt...but he goes about in more of a guard/ball-handling way. More versatile scorer, better passer, etc.

Korver will be used as a back up for Deng or to spread out the D. Redick would be a starter and also assist in play-making aspects of the game, as well as guarding the 2-spot.

Well, I'd say that Korver also plays some at the SG spot. But yes, he's much bigger than Redick. As for Redick, I think we would see a three-man rotation at the SG/SF spot between Korver, Redick, and either Deng or a more defensive oriented swingman (if they trade Deng). I don't see Redick being a playmaker. I think they'll sign someone to a veteran's minimum to back up Rose at PG.

I do agree with the idea that Korver is the pure catch-and-shoot scorer while Redick provides a bit more versatility. But I think that ultimately they'd use Redick in a Ray Allen-type of role (primarily a sharpshooter but capable of more) and Korver in a Jason Kapono type of role (purely a sharpshooter).

[superdave]

I like the Bulls getting both Redick and Korver - great floor spreaders, solid enough in other aspects. Both can really move well without the ball to keep D's on their toes. Shooting is a great skill to have tons of.

As for Deng, I'm not sure that's a great fit for this team. They need another 16-20 ppg guy in my opinion - a shot creator. But Deng is locked up for a few more years at $11 million and $14 in 2013.

I think the current lineup needs Rose to score more points than he's ideal for, but a well-engineered trade for a 2/3 player who can score both shooting and driving would do wonders for this team. They really are an All-Star away from being title contenders, if not favorites.

I could see a Deng for Turkoglu trade being pretty good, if Hedo quits his Vlade Divac training habits. Or perhaps target Jason Richardson, George Hill...or maybe give a Godfather offer for Danny Granger (Deng, Johnson, future picks).

[ice-9]

The Bulls would be foolish to trade Deng. The Bulls didn't have a reliable long range shooter and so defenses packed it in last season; this works against Deng because he's more like a Rip Hamilton in that he's most effective taking mid-range jumpers.

With JJ and KK on the floor, the Bulls will be able to stretch out defenses which will allow Deng to use his speed, length and reliable jump shot to create havoc.

[Turtleboy]

I could see a Deng for Turkoglu trade being pretty good, if Hedo quits his Vlade Divac training habits. Or perhaps target Jason Richardson, George Hill...or maybe give a Godfather offer for Danny Granger (Deng, Johnson, future picks).It looks like Turkoglu is headed to Phoenix.
(http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5372405)

[oakvillebluedevil]

First, I wouldn't call Carter's regular season numbers "average at best." They weren't in line with his salary, but they weren't average.

Carter's scoring average put him 15th out of 30 NBA starting shooting guards. That is the very definition of average. He was 13th in rebounds and 17th in assists.

The assist number really sticks out to me, especially given that he plays in a system where ball reversal to open shooters along the perimeter is so crucial. From what I've seen, JJ does a much better job of moving the ball.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/playerstats/10/3/fgpct/1-1

[CDu]

I like the Bulls getting both Redick and Korver - great floor spreaders, solid enough in other aspects. Both can really move well without the ball to keep D's on their toes. Shooting is a great skill to have tons of.

As for Deng, I'm not sure that's a great fit for this team. They need another 16-20 ppg guy in my opinion - a shot creator. But Deng is locked up for a few more years at $11 million and $14 in 2013.

I think the current lineup needs Rose to score more points than he's ideal for, but a well-engineered trade for a 2/3 player who can score both shooting and driving would do wonders for this team. They really are an All-Star away from being title contenders, if not favorites.

I could see a Deng for Turkoglu trade being pretty good, if Hedo quits his Vlade Divac training habits. Or perhaps target Jason Richardson, George Hill...or maybe give a Godfather offer for Danny Granger (Deng, Johnson, future picks).

I think the additions of Korver and Redick (if Orlando decides not to match) will do wonders for Rose. I think he's more of a scorer than you give him credit for. The problem for the Bulls and Rose in the last two years was that they just didn't have the ability to space the floor around him. But Deng has improved some as a shooter (he's still not a 3-pt threat yet) and Korver is absolutely deadly from 3. Getting Redick or another shooter would make it that much easier for Rose by clearing space.

Similarly, having Boozer takes pressure off of Rose as well. He can play the screen and roll game and steal buckets or dump it down to Boozer to create individually. If one hasn't watched the Bulls a lot, it's hard to understand just how little impact they got from the post offensively. Boozer (if he can stay healthy) changes that dramatically.

That said, if the Bulls do land Redick, then I wouldn't be shocked by a trade of Deng. I don't think he's quite strong enough defensively to play consistently alongside a backcourt of Rose/backup PG/Redick/Korver. I don't think they'll want to rely THAT much on Noah's defensive skills. But maybe they see something still in Deng. After all, he's consistently averaged between 15 and 18 points per game, and he's still only 24. So there's always hope that he'll continue to expand his offensive game.

[CDu]

Carter's scoring average put him 15th out of 30 NBA starting shooting guards. That is the very definition of average. He was 13th in rebounds and 17th in assists.

The assist number really sticks out to me, especially given that he plays in a system where ball reversal to open shooters along the perimeter is so crucial. From what I've seen, JJ does a much better job of moving the ball.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/playerstats/10/3/fgpct/1-1

Fair enough. So his stats were average. The rest of what I said still holds. The Magic played him a lot because he was one season removed from being a 20+ ppg scorer at the SG position - not simply because he was paid a lot. Thus, the logic failure is one of causation. Carter got paid because he was a star scorer, and he got playing time because he had the reputation of being a star scorer.

[theAlaskanBear]

Well, I'd say that Korver also plays some at the SG spot. But yes, he's much bigger than Redick. As for Redick, I think we would see a three-man rotation at the SG/SF spot between Korver, Redick, and either Deng or a more defensive oriented swingman (if they trade Deng). I don't see Redick being a playmaker. I think they'll sign someone to a veteran's minimum to back up Rose at PG.

I do agree with the idea that Korver is the pure catch-and-shoot scorer while Redick provides a bit more versatility. But I think that ultimately they'd use Redick in a Ray Allen-type of role (primarily a sharpshooter but capable of more) and Korver in a Jason Kapono type of role (purely a sharpshooter).

You are spot on...I was going to say that Korver could see time at SG when they want to go big, but ultimately his size and quickness limits him defensively against a lot of the SGs in league...so for defensive purposes he is not a SG. Kapono/Allen are nice comparisons...obviously JJ has to get a lot better to hold up his end of that but by style of game I will give you points.

I used to think Deng would be traded, but now I really disagree with you. These moves make it LESS likely he is shopped, because they cover his glaring weakness: 3-pt shooting. Another poster talked about teams packing in the D against the Bulls and this is the case....the only way Deng gets traded is if there are serious doubts about his health.

[CDu]

You are spot on...I was going to say that Korver could see time at SG when they want to go big, but ultimately his size and quickness limits him defensively against a lot of the SGs in league...so for defensive purposes he is not a SG. Kapono/Allen are nice comparisons...obviously JJ has to get a lot better to hold up his end of that but by style of game I will give you points.

I used to think Deng would be traded, but now I really disagree with you. These moves make it LESS likely he is shopped, because they cover his glaring weakness: 3-pt shooting. Another poster talked about teams packing in the D against the Bulls and this is the case....the only way Deng gets traded is if there are serious doubts about his health.

Maybe, but there is still the concern about defense, and the issue that they only have one guy who can create off the dribble. While Redick is better off the dribble than Korver, he's still not really a creator. And defensively, Rose/?/Redick/Korver/Deng is a debatable group defensively.

I could see the team going as is and merely hoping that Thibs can do enough with his defensive system, or hoping that Deng can further expand his game on both ends. But I could also see them moving Deng (who probably does have trade value somewhere) for a better defensive swingman.

[theAlaskanBear]

As for Deng, I'm not sure that's a great fit for this team. They need another 16-20 ppg guy in my opinion - a shot creator. But Deng is locked up for a few more years at $11 million and $14 in 2013.



I have to disagree. Deng is exactly the kind of guy you are describing. Last year in the playoffs proves it. Luol was a 20ppg scorer against the Cavaliers in the playoffs and has a career 18p 7r average in the playoffs. He is a good foul shooter and good at creating contact.

No he is not the 3pt SF that is in vogue with the league, but coming off of injury he last year he did 17 and 7 in 70 games. He has all the tools to be a good defensive player, the length and the athleticism.

Expect Deng to shine this year (get more efficient) now that a lot of the scoring burden has been placed on Boozer.

[theAlaskanBear]

Maybe, but there is still the concern about defense, and the issue that they only have one guy who can create off the dribble. While Redick is better off the dribble than Korver, he's still not really a creator. And defensively, Rose/?/Redick/Korver/Deng is a debatable group defensively.

I could see the team going as is and merely hoping that Thibs can do enough with his defensive system, or hoping that Deng can further expand his game on both ends. But I could also see them moving Deng (who probably does have trade value somewhere) for a better defensive swingman.

I guess will have to disagree. Luol has all the tools to be a good defender. He was the 4th best defensive rebounder at his position last year, and the 7th best (.9) shot blocker.

If you compare Luol to Igoudala, Deng is just as good at scoring and rebounding and a better shooter! I just cannot believe that the Bulls would trade that production away...Korver is NOT a starting SF, and Luol is a top-10 SF...who are the Bulls going to get that makes them a better, more complete team?

[CDu]

I have to disagree. Deng is exactly the kind of guy you are describing. Last year in the playoffs proves it. Luol was a 20ppg scorer against the Cavaliers in the playoffs and has a career 18p 7r average in the playoffs. He is a good foul shooter and good at creating contact.

No he is not the 3pt SF that is in vogue with the league, but coming off of injury he last year he did 17 and 7 in 70 games. He has all the tools to be a good defensive player, the length and the athleticism.

Expect Deng to shine this year (get more efficient) now that a lot of the scoring burden has been placed on Boozer.

I think what superdave is trying to say is that Deng isn't really a creator off the dribble. I agree that he is an effective scorer, but it's not in a primary ballhandler way. He's more of a guy to run along the baseline or off screens, and find open spaces for midrange shots or baseline finishes rather than creating his own shot.

The team used to rely on the combination of Rose/Hinrich/Salmons/Gordon to create scoring chances, while Deng mostly moved off the ball to scoring chances. With Hinrich/Salmons/Gordon gone, that puts a lot of pressure on Rose.

[CDu]

I guess will have to disagree. Luol has all the tools to be a good defender. He was the 4th best defensive rebounder at his position last year, and the 7th best (.9) shot blocker.

If you compare Luol to Igoudala, Deng is just as good at scoring and rebounding and a better shooter! I just cannot believe that the Bulls would trade that production away...Korver is NOT a starting SF, and Luol is a top-10 SF...who are the Bulls going to get that makes them a better, more complete team?

I don't think of shotblocking and rebounds as good measures of perimeter defense (which is the role they'll need from him if the other perimeter defenders are Rose/Redick/Korver). And I don't think Deng is a bad defender. I just worry about the perimeter defense as it currently lines up.

I agree that Korver isn't a starter, nor was I suggesting this. My thought was that the Bulls instead try to trade for a better defender at the SF spot. I don't know if that's available or not (haven't looked at all the rosters and don't know what would realistically be available).

Actually, the other alternative is that the Bulls expect Orlando to match for Redick. That would allow the Bulls to find another shooter for the SG position, but one who can play lockdown defense. Again, that may not be easy to come by.

[mike88]

The Magic have known that they would be over the cap and paying the luxury task for quite a long time (at least since last summer when they acquired Vince and match'd Gortat's offer)- it is not new news and I don't think they feel any compulsion to shed contracts before they decide whether or not to match JJ's offer. The Devos family made the decision to pay the luxury tax last summer and i haven't heard of any change in their policy.

Whehter the Magic re-sign JJ or not, they still need to fill spots at the 2 and 3 position (JJ's and Matt Barnes') and it is not clear that there are good, cheaper alternatives who can come in and play at the same level that will allow Orlando to compete for a championship.

If the Magic want to shed salary, it may work better for them to move Brandon Bass. Or they can just pay it this year and shed Vince's contract next summer, in which case they will be glad they have JJ on the roster!

Many posters have concern that JJ can't be effective b/c other players (mainly Jameer it seems) won't pass him the ball. I assume that if he stays with the magic, JJ will continue to come off the bench, and will be playing with Chris Duhon (who definitely knows how to get JJ the ball), so I am not as worried about that scenario.

[CDu]

The Magic have known that they would be over the cap and paying the luxury task for quite a long time (at least since last summer when they acquired Vince and match'd Gortat's offer)- it is not new news and I don't think they feel any compulsion to shed contracts before they decide whether or not to match JJ's offer. The Devos family made the decision to pay the luxury tax last summer and i haven't heard of any change in their policy.

Whehter the Magic re-sign JJ or not, they still need to fill spots at the 2 and 3 position (JJ's and Matt Barnes') and it is not clear that there are good, cheaper alternatives who can come in and play at the same level that will allow Orlando to compete for a championship.

If the Magic want to shed salary, it may work better for them to move Brandon Bass. Or they can just pay it this year and shed Vince's contract next summer, in which case they will be glad they have JJ on the roster!

Many posters have concern that JJ can't be effective b/c other players (mainly Jameer it seems) won't pass him the ball. I assume that if he stays with the magic, JJ will continue to come off the bench, and will be playing with Chris Duhon (who definitely knows how to get JJ the ball), so I am not as worried about that scenario.

These are all good points. The question is merely whether or not they can afford to pay ~$14 million for Redick next year (they'd be in the luxury tax so his contract is effectively doubled). Perhaps they were envisioning matching at $4-5 million (or $8-10 million with the tax). If that's the case, then they're deciding on $4-6 million difference for next year.

But your last paragraph is interesting. Signing Duhon puts added emphasis on having shooters/scorers on the bench, because Duhon is not going to shoot well (but will distribute). Redick would be a very good fit off the bench next to Duhon next year.

The question is merely how much (if at all) is the Bulls estimate above what they were anticipating seeing in an offer for Redick?

[NSDukeFan]

I think what superdave is trying to say is that Deng isn't really a creator off the dribble. I agree that he is an effective scorer, but it's not in a primary ballhandler way. He's more of a guy to run along the baseline or off screens, and find open spaces for midrange shots or baseline finishes rather than creating his own shot.

The team used to rely on the combination of Rose/Hinrich/Salmons/Gordon to create scoring chances, while Deng mostly moved off the ball to scoring chances. With Hinrich/Salmons/Gordon gone, that puts a lot of pressure on Rose.

I wonder if Boozer changes the need for Deng to create his shot as well. With Rose and Boozer able to create their own shot and/or draw double teams and Korver (and JJ?) to stretch the floor, wouldn't this be a good situation to accentuate Deng's positive offensive contributions without having to always create his own shot?

[CDu]

I wonder if Boozer changes the need for Deng to create his shot as well. With Rose and Boozer able to create their own shot and/or draw double teams and Korver (and JJ?) to stretch the floor, wouldn't this be a good situation to accentuate Deng's positive offensive contributions without having to always create his own shot?

Maybe, maybe not. Typically, you'd expect at least two guys on the floor at all times that can create for themselves. It's not bad to have three guys on the floor that can create their own shots. The rest of the guys should be either spot shooters, rebounders, or finishers (Deng falls more in the mid-range shooter/baseline finisher dept), or a combination. The problem for the Bulls is that they currently have only two guys on the entire roster that really create shots for themselves or others. So I'd say that they still need a guy to play at least 25-30 minutes and create offense.

Now, it may be that Deng can learn to do that (though I'm skeptical). And it may be that the Bulls can find a backup guard to fill that role, though if they do get Redick then there aren't many minutes left for a guard to fill that role. So that's one reason why a trade of Deng may seem palatable.

[superdave]

To a large extent, my point was about how to best exploit Rose's talent. A week or two ago it came out that Rose was pushing the Bulls to offer Joe Johnson instead of LeBron because it would be a better fit. He's probably right.

I also though that if the Bulls could have signed LeBron and Bosh and done a sign and trade for Wade, sending Rose to Miami, that would be a good deal for Miami considering Rose and LeBron are both penetrators/creators.

Korver as a backup at the 2 and 3 spots is pretty good though. If Rose has an advantageous matchup, then Redick and Korver cant get great looks at 3s.

I'm not sure Deng fits that style though. Igoudala either.

The ideal guy that might be had is someone the Pacers may or may not consider giving up...

[CDu]

To a large extent, my point was about how to best exploit Rose's talent. A week or two ago it came out that Rose was pushing the Bulls to offer Joe Johnson instead of LeBron because it would be a better fit. He's probably right.

I also though that if the Bulls could have signed LeBron and Bosh and done a sign and trade for Wade, sending Rose to Miami, that would be a good deal for Miami considering Rose and LeBron are both penetrators/creators.

Korver as a backup at the 2 and 3 spots is pretty good though. If Rose has an advantageous matchup, then Redick and Korver cant get great looks at 3s.

I'm not sure Deng fits that style though. Igoudala either.

The ideal guy that might be had is someone the Pacers may or may not consider giving up...

I think the same issue holds true for Wade and James. All three of those guys are penetrators/creators. However, I think that James and Rose would be better than Johnson and Rose, even if the two aren't a perfect fit together. I think James is just that much better than Johnson that the difference in fit would be offset. But I do agree with you that stylistically Johnson is a better pairing with Rose.

The problem for the Bulls is that there isn't a perfect solution out there now. If Johnson had been available at a reasonable price (he's way overpaid), I think the Bulls would have been happy with a Johnson/Boozer combo and a cheap sharpshooter to back up Johnson and Deng. But with Johnson off the board, the remaining options at SG have plenty of blemishes. So unless the Bulls can get really creative via trade, they're likely to have a perimeter group that doesn't exactly all fit perfectly snugly together.

[elvis14]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-freeagentbuzz071210

The Magic look like they may have signed Quinton Richardson. The plot thickens!

[mike88]

I assume Richardson will start at the 3 position, meaning that Barnes will not be brought back. I have always liked his game and he seems to have gotten better from 3 point range, which is an important skill for the Magic's offensive scheme.

I don't think this signing affects the decision about JJ, but its hard to know for sure how much the Magic are willing to spend. They still need a third point guard or combo guard to fill out their roster, which I assume will at or near the NBA minimum salary.

[superdave]

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/06/25/magic-trade-for-vince-carter-give-up-on-hedo-turkoglu/

Does Vince Carter really stand to make $17.3 next year? If so that's a huuuuge expiring contract. That could be good trade bait if they do re-sign JJ.

[WiJoe]

I believe JJ will need to look for winter clothes for the missus and himself.

Booz, Luol & JJ.

To quote a media savvy Duke guard "Yessir!"

:D

[mgtr]

I have watched a lot of Magic basketball in the last couple of years, and am definitely impressed (and proud!) at how JJ has improved himself. I agree that some players (Lewis and Nelson, in particular,) have not passed the ball to JJ when he was open and well-positioned. If the coach wants the ball passed to JJ in such situations, and it doesn't happen, the fault is with the coach, since he has the ultimate control over playing time. Don't want to do what I tell you to do? Like to keep the ball and not pass to JJ when he is open? Fine, have a seat on the bench. Let me know when you look at things differently. If the coach doesn't take such action, then either a) he really isn't the coach, just the puppet of the GM and the owners (ie, a girly-man!), or (b) he was lying though his teeth when he said how much he wanted to retain JJ, and that the club would match any offer. Or, some of both a and b.

[theAlaskanBear]

I have watched a lot of Magic basketball in the last couple of years, and am definitely impressed (and proud!) at how JJ has improved himself. I agree that some players (Lewis and Nelson, in particular,) have not passed the ball to JJ when he was open and well-positioned. If the coach wants the ball passed to JJ in such situations, and it doesn't happen, the fault is with the coach, since he has the ultimate control over playing time. Don't want to do what I tell you to do? Like to keep the ball and not pass to JJ when he is open? Fine, have a seat on the bench. Let me know when you look at things differently. If the coach doesn't take such action, then either a) he really isn't the coach, just the puppet of the GM and the owners (ie, a girly-man!), or (b) he was lying though his teeth when he said how much he wanted to retain JJ, and that the club would match any offer. Or, some of both a and b.

Well, coaches ARE the puppets of the GM. The exceptions maybe being Phil, who has enough prestige to get what he wants, and Pat Riley, who lately has been the puppeteer! NBA coaches are not like college coaches, where they run the program and have unlimited authority. More often than not, they are just another disposable piece of the puzzle. Ask people like Mike Brown, Avery Johnson, etc....great coaches who have great seasons but get fired.

[Newton_14]

A couple of years ago after JJ's 2nd year, a writer from one of the Orlando papers wrote an article labeling JJ a bust. I took offense and sent him an email and made my argument on why he was dead wrong, and why JJ would prove him wrong if given a chance on the court. He actually wrote me back and asked permission to post my email in one of his upcoming articles. I gave my approval and I assume he ran with it.

Seeing this offer from the Bulls and knowing the Magic are agonizing over whether or not to match, I feel vindicated a little. I know I went out on a limb a bit, though I did believe every word I wrote, but to see JJ play like he has the past two season sure feels good. So many people wrote him off and declared he would never amount to anything in the NBA and would be in Europe once the Rookie contract ran out.

Interestingly enough, one Cedric "Cornbread" Maxwell was one of the most vocal, outspoken media guys against JJ. Maxwell stated almost daily on talk radio back in JJ's senior year that JJ had "YMCA" talent and that was the only place he would ever be "a player".

Although many on DBR do not care much for Mark Packer (Son of Billy) who hosts the "Packman Show" on the radio, I wanted you guys to know that Packer was really hoping Boston would offer Redick.

Packer really wanted Maxwell to have to reverse his stance on JJ and eat all that smack he talked once Redick donned the green jersey. (Maxwell played on the Bird teams in Boston and now is the radio guys for the Celtics).

I have to imagine that JJ harassing Ray Allen to death in the playoffs 2 straight years had Cedric muttering under his breath a lot. Karma can be a beoytch sometimes huh?:D

Congrats to JJ> No matter who you sign with, you have proved your worth! Here's to many more years of even better success!

Go JJ Redick and Go Duke!

[BigZ]

As crazy as it may sound I believe the Bulls will be better than the Magic if they get JJ.

[AZLA]

Here is my opinion.....

I want to see him out of Orlando.

As long as Nelson is running the point, and Lewis is out on the floor, JJ will not get the touches he needs to get his shot going.

Nelson is too much of a me first, ball hog point guard, who rarely looks JJ's way when he is out on the court.

And Lewis flat out refuses to pass the ball to JJ during the course of the game.

I've watched a bunch of Orlando games, and that's just the way I see it. As much as SVG praises JJ and gives him more minutes (well deserved I might add!), it doesn't matter when 2 and sometimes 3 players won't look his way when he is out on the court.

I think JJ knows this and wants out.

Couldn't agree with you more on all you points. SVG is political -- he talks up JJ when asked (for the fans), but his team's actions are a reflection of his true opinion. Take the mental cuffs off JJ and he could become a legitimate outside threat.

[MisterRoddy]

I think it's safe to say wherever JJ ends up, he is a wanted man. I have a few friends that are Bulls fans and they are very excited at the possibility of having JJ and are convinced that if they get JJ, it'll catapult them into a Top 3 contender in the East. Whether that's true remains to be seen but..

I think its safe to say that Duke has produced yet another quality NBA player that will and has made us proud :)

[hedevil]

BigZ- I don't think that sounds crazy at all. If the Bulls land JJ, I see them as a legitimate 2 or 3 seeded team in the east. Obviously you have to play the games, but I can see the Bulls outperforming the Celtics and/or Magic this season if they land JJ.

Some people may think that I am overestimating JJ's potential, however, I really feel that JJ can thrive in the Bulls' style offense with all of their new additions. Add to that the dropoff that Orlando might have on defense if they lose JJ, and I could see the Bulls passing up the Magic. JJ is really an under appreciated defender, and I think that will be noticable as soon as/if he exits Orlando.

All that being said, keep in mind that I am a Bulls fan, so I hope to land JJ, and I hope that my predictions are proven true in the process. :D

[mike88]

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/06/25/magic-trade-for-vince-carter-give-up-on-hedo-turkoglu/

Does Vince Carter really stand to make $17.3 next year? If so that's a huuuuge expiring contract. That could be good trade bait if they do re-sign JJ.

It's not exactly an expiring contract- there is a team option for another year at $18M that the Magic (or whoever acquires him) can decline and make a $4M payout, so it functions nearly like one.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Deng is selling his Chicago home, I wonder if he doesn't expect to be a Bull next season.
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/07/bulls-deng-puts-his-northbrook-home-on-market.html

[theAlaskanBear]

Deng is selling his Chicago home, I wonder if he doesn't expect to be a Bull next season.
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/07/bulls-deng-puts-his-northbrook-home-on-market.html

And the plot thickens.

[pamtar]

From the comments of the Deng article, Carmelo is selling his home as well - at quite a loss. If it is based on a possible trade, I don't really see Chicago involved. His new wife probably just wants something bigger...

http://blog.syracuse.com/sports/2010/07/carmelo_anthony_selling_his_de.html

[CrazieDUMB]

I think that it was probably a good thing that JJ didn't do so well his first few years out. After watching him, it's definitely clear that he's had to work and prove himself as a defender. He's much quicker and understands NBA D much better now (no, "NBA D" isn't an oxymoron). Additionally, he's much better off the dribble getting into the lane, something he didn't show much of at all at Duke until his senior year. He's clearly still hungry and working to improve. At this point though, I really think he's ready to take a starting role. After playing all 82 games last year and averaging 22 MPG, he's really not that far off. He shouldve been starting last year, but it's tough to keep VC on the bench when they gave him so much money. Just another reason why college BB can be more fun.

[Billy Dat]

I think that Orlando really does value JJ, especially SVG, but the luxury tax implications spelled out earlier in this thread may prove to be prohibitive. The QRich signing seems more like insurance for losing Matt Barnes as Q is big enough (6'6") to play the swing. It's hard to tell where JJ would be better off. He's got his role in Orlando where SVG really trusts him and gives him lots of crunch time minutes. JJ has definitely picked up his playmaking ability and creates a lot of good looks for the Magic when he drives and kicks in the Orlando spread offense.

Based on who Chicago has signed, and who they don't, JJ might be a starter in Chicago. You'd figure they'd go Boozer, Noah, Deng, Rose and then Reddick/Korver. They could go Boozer, Noah, Gibson, Deng, Rose but then you've got no sharpshooting on the floor. I wonder if James Johnson is working hard this offseason to be a key piece of that puzzle...with Tyrus Thomas gone he's really got a chance to shine.

Deng selling his townhouse may just be a red herring as I think his deal is going to be really hard to move. But, all kinds of deals are happening right now so you never know.

[hq2]

Chicago would be a great fit for JJ. The Bulls, after years of seeming like an "up and coming team", now appear to be one. JJ could start for a legitimate playoff team (although maybe not quite championship level one yet). Orlando, on the other hand, I think has already peaked. Vince and Rashard Lewis are already getting old, and Jameer has frequent injury problems. I don't see the Magic getting any better with JJ, so going to Chicago wouldn't be a step down. I think for JJ, as far as starting is concerned, it's now or never so it's now.

[CDu]

Based on who Chicago has signed, and who they don't, JJ might be a starter in Chicago. You'd figure they'd go Boozer, Noah, Deng, Rose and then Reddick/Korver. They could go Boozer, Noah, Gibson, Deng, Rose but then you've got no sharpshooting on the floor. I wonder if James Johnson is working hard this offseason to be a key piece of that puzzle...with Tyrus Thomas gone he's really got a chance to shine.

Deng selling his townhouse may just be a red herring as I think his deal is going to be really hard to move. But, all kinds of deals are happening right now so you never know.

Gibson is not a SF, so they won't play him there. He'll probably back up Boozer. The Bulls really like what he can do at the PF spot, and he provides a nice change of pace to Boozer defensively.

As for Johnson: I think that unless they trade Deng, the signing of Boozer and Korver puts Johnson as the odd man out. They'll sign another big man (maybe two) and Gibson will be the backup to Boozer at the 4. With Deng/Korver at SF (and Korver getting some backup minutes at SG as well) and Boozer/Gibson at PF, there really isn't a clear role for Johnson. A trade of Deng would clear up playing time for Johnson at the SF spot (to be shared with Korver), but otherwise I think his minutes are limited.

[moonpie23]

man, i hope JJ goes to the bulls and then they PUT MIAMI out of the playoffs next year..... !!!

wow.....

[CDu]

Chicago would be a great fit for JJ. The Bulls, after years of seeming like an "up and coming team", now appear to be one. JJ could start for a legitimate playoff team (although maybe not quite championship level one yet). Orlando, on the other hand, I think has already peaked. Vince and Rashard Lewis are already getting old, and Jameer has frequent injury problems. I don't see the Magic getting any better with JJ, so going to Chicago wouldn't be a step down. I think for JJ, as far as starting is concerned, it's now or never so it's now.

Well, it just comes down to whether Orlando matches. If they do, Redick has no choice but to stay in Orlando as a restricted free agent. If they don't match, then he goes to the Bulls.

[mike88]

Chicago would be a great fit for JJ. The Bulls, after years of seeming like an "up and coming team", now appear to be one. JJ could start for a legitimate playoff team (although maybe not quite championship level one yet). Orlando, on the other hand, I think has already peaked. Vince and Rashard Lewis are already getting old, and Jameer has frequent injury problems. I don't see the Magic getting any better with JJ, so going to Chicago wouldn't be a step down. I think for JJ, as far as starting is concerned, it's now or never so it's now.

The Magic have won 60 games and gone to the NBA finals and ECF the last two years, so if they have peaked, it is at a pretty high level. That said, whether they get to the Finals again (ECF or NBA) will mainly depend on whether Dwight Howard improves. It is possible that he has peaked, but I think that he can and will make improvements in his offensive game that will make him (and the Magic) even harder to defend. I also bet that Rashard will have a better year this year.

[flyingdutchdevil]

The Magic have won 60 games and gone to the NBA finals and ECF the last two years, so if they have peaked, it is at a pretty high level. That said, whether they get to the Finals again (ECF or NBA) will mainly depend on whether Dwight Howard improves. It is possible that he has peaked, but I think that he can and will make improvements in his offensive game that will make him (and the Magic) even harder to defend. I also bet that Rashard will have a better year this year.

While the Magic may have peaked, DHoward definitely hasn't. He has a top-two body in the NBA ("Prince of South Beach" being the other) and plays really good D (nearly great). But his offense is terrible - he hasn't developed a go-to move and most of his buckets are dunks. If he can expand his arsenal, he would be unstoppable.

Moving to a more relevant subject, I would still like to see JJ with Orlando. Even as a sixth man, he is still one of the most important players on the floor and his teammates really like him. Watch the bench every time JJ hits a three - they explode! Also, with Duhon, JJ should thrive more and be the recipient of many passes from a pass-first PG. Plus, with Nelson's injury history, you know Duhon will be playing a lot.

[14duke]

Since Chicago didn't get Lebron, i doubt that they trade Deng. They were going to trade Deng in order to be able to sign three max type player.

[CDu]

Since Chicago didn't get Lebron, i doubt that they trade Deng. They were going to trade Deng in order to be able to sign three max type player.

Slight correction: they were going to trade Deng to be able to sign two max free agents, not three. Only Miami had the room to sign three.

It may very well be that the Bulls don't move Deng. They certainly aren't likely to get a more talented player in any trade, and there isn't anybody left for whom they'd need to clear cap space. However, they could still decide to move him if they feel that the pieces don't fit right. If they do ultimately get Redick, that leaves them with little cap space and only two guys on the roster capable of creating their own shot. That could be a problem. But it could be a problem that the Bulls simply choose not to address, or choose to address by adding a couple of players at the minimum.

[superdave]

Slight correction: they were going to trade Deng to be able to sign two max free agents, not three. Only Miami had the room to sign three.

It may very well be that the Bulls don't move Deng. They certainly aren't likely to get a more talented player in any trade, and there isn't anybody left for whom they'd need to clear cap space. However, they could still decide to move him if they feel that the pieces don't fit right. If they do ultimately get Redick, that leaves them with little cap space and only two guys on the roster capable of creating their own shot. That could be a problem. But it could be a problem that the Bulls simply choose not to address, or choose to address by adding a couple of players at the minimum.

For the Bulls, the relevant questions are -
How good is Derek Rose?
What kind of player is he?

Seems to me he's definitely a top 5 point guard, but could development into a top 5 overall player.

On the second question, you dont want your pg to be your primary scorer. Rose can score but is not a very good shooter from the outside. Also it remains to be seen whether he is the alpha on this team or a facilitator.

So Boozer helps here, but I'm not sure Boozer is capable of the 24-25 ppg that the Bulls need. So the Bulls need another 20+ scorer in my estimation. That guy is not on the roster today. Redick is also not a 20+ guy, so dealing Deng might be the best option if there's a market.

[CDu]

For the Bulls, the relevant questions are -
How good is Derek Rose?
What kind of player is he?

Seems to me he's definitely a top 5 point guard, but could development into a top 5 overall player.

On the second question, you dont want your pg to be your primary scorer. Rose can score but is not a very good shooter from the outside. Also it remains to be seen whether he is the alpha on this team or a facilitator.

So Boozer helps here, but I'm not sure Boozer is capable of the 24-25 ppg that the Bulls need. So the Bulls need another 20+ scorer in my estimation. That guy is not on the roster today. Redick is also not a 20+ guy, so dealing Deng might be the best option if there's a market.

I think your analysis of Rose is accurate, though I don't see any problem with your PG being your primary scorer. It's worked for LA and Cleveland (who've used point forwards in Bryant and James), it's worked in Miami (where Wade is the lead guard), and it worked for New Orleans when they've had any sort of roster around Chris Paul.

That being said, I also don't think the Bulls need Boozer (or necessarily anyone) to score 24-25 ppg. Which is good, because they don't have anyone to do that. Having three guys scoring 18-20 ppg would be just fine, so long as 2-3 guys like Redick and Noah can chip in 10-12 ppg as well.

I think that the addition of Boozer and some lesser scorers (and a healthier Deng and improving Rose) will be enough for offense. The question is defense. The Bulls have consistently allowed 100+ ppg the last three years. They need to trim that down, and hopefully the new, defensive-minded coach can do that.

Moving Deng isn't going to land the Bulls a 20+ ppg scorer, nor do I think it's what they need. A healthy Deng should give them 18ish anyway. The question, in my opinion, is whether the group works defensively. If they can get from 97ppg to 100ppg and cut their defensive ppg from 99.5 to around 97, they'll be just fine. If there is a trade involving Deng that improves the chances of making that leap, then great. But I don't see one readily available as of yet.

[CEF1959]

So Boozer helps here, but I'm not sure Boozer is capable of the 24-25 ppg that the Bulls need. So the Bulls need another 20+ scorer in my estimation. That guy is not on the roster today. Redick is also not a 20+ guy, so dealing Deng might be the best option if there's a market.

What the Bulls got with Boozer is even more dominance on the glass. They were the best rebounding team in the league last year, and they bring in a guy who averages 11 per game. But rebounding doesn't win games unless some of the rebounds get put in the basket.

[CDu]

What the Bulls got with Boozer is even more dominance on the glass. They were the best rebounding team in the league last year, and they bring in a guy who averages 11 per game. But rebounding doesn't win games unless some of the rebounds get put in the basket.

They also get a substantial upgrade in post scoring. Last year, they got next to nothing from the post as primary offense. The points they got were off Noah/Deng putbacks or 12 foot jumpers by Taj Gibson of a drive and kick by Rose. Now, they've got a guy who can legitimately score in the post. So even if he's not a 25 ppg scorer, he's a substantial upgrade over what they had.

The question will be if that improvement, along with Korver and whomever they get on the wing (possibly Redick) along with any improvements by Rose and Deng (or someone else if he's traded) are enough to offset the losses of Salmons and Hinrich.

[dball]

So the Bulls need another 20+ scorer in my estimation. That guy is not on the roster today. Redick is also not a 20+ guy, so dealing Deng might be the best option if there's a market.

There were only 19 guys who averaged 20+ last year. Just 9 were at 24+. Only 2 teams had 2 twenty point plus guys (Golden State and Sacramento). Not sure why it would be reasonable to assume Chicago has to or can get another 20+ guy to join Rose. That said, Boozer was at 19.5. Luol at 17.6 should look 'Deng' good to the Bulls.

[hedevil]

http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=6211

The Bulls have added some depth to the inside. Obviously, Turkey isn't the NBA, but depth on the inside is important at this point being that Brad Miller is beyond his days and is making up his mind concerning his future. It sounds like this guy can block shots at the least. I'm still crossing my fingers for JJ.:D

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

how many days does orlando have left to decide?

also, did anyone catch the dallas, charlotte trade? Hollinger was saying that mj in his first executive decision managed to lose money in a salary dump.... I'm beginning to wonder if the bobcats will ever be any good.

[CDu]

how many days does orlando have left to decide?

also, did anyone catch the dallas, charlotte trade? Hollinger was saying that mj in his first executive decision managed to lose money in a salary dump.... I'm beginning to wonder if the bobcats will ever be any good.

Orlando has a week from the offer sheet, which was signed either Friday or Saturday (I think Friday). So they'd have until Friday or Saturday of this week (depending upon which day the signing occurred). And I suspect they'll use all of that time, or at least close to all of it. There's no reason for them not to leave Chicago uncertain about things while other free agents come off the market.

[CDu]

http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=6211

The Bulls have added some depth to the inside. Obviously, Turkey isn't the NBA, but depth on the inside is important at this point being that Brad Miller is beyond his days and is making up his mind concerning his future. It sounds like this guy can block shots at the least. I'm still crossing my fingers for JJ.:D

Yeah, he'll be a somewhat raw, but big and fairly athletic big man off the bench. I'd be surprised if he played more than 10-15 minutes per game next year though. I'll be happy to be surprised, but he does hopefully provide an upgrade over Aaron Gray.

[superdave]

No word on any rumors surrounding Orlando getting rid of Vince Carter. So it seems like they have a tough choice with JJ - pay him and the luxury tax or let him go.

CDu...would Orlando get any trade exception for losing JJ?

[CDu]

No word on any rumors surrounding Orlando getting rid of Vince Carter. So it seems like they have a tough choice with JJ - pay him and the luxury tax or let him go.

CDu...would Orlando get any trade exception for losing JJ?

You only get a trade exception if you make a trade with a team that allows the other team to go over the salary cap. Chicago is under the salary cap and wouldn't be trading for Redick, so Orlando would not receive a trade exception.

You're dead on with regard to Orlando's decision. They'll either have to pay the luxury tax this year (making Redick's salary double for this year) or they have to let him go.

[Trooper]

You only get a trade exception if you make a trade with a team that allows the other team to go over the salary cap. Chicago is under the salary cap and wouldn't be trading for Redick, so Orlando would not receive a trade exception.

You're dead on with regard to Orlando's decision. They'll either have to pay the luxury tax this year (making Redick's salary double for this year) or they have to let him go.

That's not quite how it works with the trade exception. A team gets a trade exception if it receives less in player salaries back than they gave up AND the team receiving the lesser amount of salaries is over the cap. Team's trading that are over the cap can only accept players of roughly equal value in dollars to what they are giving up, so generally the exceptions happen when a team under the cap acquires players from a team over the cap for draft picks or low salaried prospects.

The trade exceptions are very important this off season, because so many teams are under the cap by huge amounts after their failed pursuits of Lebron/Wade/Bosh. In this particular case, the Bulls are simply attempting to sign JJ as a restricted free agent, so no trade exception will be conveyed if the Magic choose not to match.

In terms of the luxury tax, the magic will be paying it no matter what. The tax threshold for next year is $70MM, and the Magic currently have players under contract next season for $85M with one roster spot open. If the Magic match the offer, they will fill the lost spot with JJ and have a payroll of $92MM, which means they'd have to pay the $92MM to players and then $22MM in luxury tax. JJ would effectively cost the Magic $14MM next season. If they don't match, they'll still pay $15M in tax to the league.

The luxury tax gets divided equally amongst the owners whose teams are below the tax threshold.

People seem to believe the Magic are going to match the contract, which would say a ton about how much they value JJ given the exorbitant cost and the fact that they have Carter and Pietrus who can both play the 2 spot already. As a bulls fan and duke grad, I hope they decide to let JJ go...

[-bdbd]

No word on any rumors surrounding Orlando getting rid of Vince Carter. So it seems like they have a tough choice with JJ - pay him and the luxury tax or let him go.

CDu...would Orlando get any trade exception for losing JJ?


Superdave alludes to a good point - the JJ signing isn't necessarily Orlando's last deal of the summer. So, they could sign JJ with the expectation of a coming deal to shed some salary (and get under cap).

We'll know (about JJ) by Friday!
Would just love to see him playing with Boozer and Deng!

[CDu]

That's not quite how it works with the trade exception. A team gets a trade exception if it receives less in player salaries back than they gave up AND the team receiving the lesser amount of salaries is over the cap. Team's trading that are over the cap can only accept players of roughly equal value in dollars to what they are giving up, so generally the exceptions happen when a team under the cap acquires players from a team over the cap for draft picks or low salaried prospects.

The trade exceptions are very important this off season, because so many teams are under the cap by huge amounts after their failed pursuits of Lebron/Wade/Bosh. In this particular case, the Bulls are simply attempting to sign JJ as a restricted free agent, so no trade exception will be conveyed if the Magic choose not to match.

Right, this is what I was trying to say, but wrote quickly and probably not clearly. As you said, since the Bulls are under the cap and signing Redick as a restricted free agent (and since the Magic are over the cap) they aren't going to get a trade exception. The key point was the statement that "no, the Magic won't get a trade exception for Redick."

[lazee]

Looks like Magic will match.

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/15/magic-to-keep-jj-redick-by-matching-offer-from-bulls/


The Magic will make their intention known Friday – the last possible day -- but NBA sources familiar with the front-office thinking of the Magic confirmed their decision Thursday afternoon.

"They aren't letting go of J.J.,'' said the source.

[SilkyJ]

Looks like Magic will match.

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/15/magic-to-keep-jj-redick-by-matching-offer-from-bulls/

Darn. I think most folks were wishing for him to go to Bulls. Oh well, he's still on a top 3 team in his conference with NBA finals potential, and I'm sure he'll play 20+, maybe even 25+mpg if the trend of him improving and VC worsening continues...

[cbfx3]

How cool would it be for a trio of blue devils to bring a championship back to Chicago?

[SilkyJ]

How cool would it be for a trio of blue devils to bring a championship back to Chicago?

how cool would it HAVE BEEN...looks like it aint gonna happen no mo' (see below)


Looks like Magic will match.

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/15/magic-to-keep-jj-redick-by-matching-offer-from-bulls/

[moonpie23]

well, as much as i wanted him to be in chicago, i still think this is good news for him...

just think, if duhon is on the court with him, there will be no balking at giving jj the ball....

i'm enthusiastic about the possibilities...

[greybeard]

well, as much as i wanted him to be in chicago, i still think this is good news for him...

just think, if duhon is on the court with him, there will be no balking at giving jj the ball....

i'm enthusiastic about the possibilities...

The passes Reddick needs are inhside -out passes and that means Lewis and Howard, for starters, neither of whom have shown the slightest interest in getting it to him as a first option. Howard especially. I have noticed that if he glimpses Nelson or Carter or Lewis free at the line the ball is gone. Not so with JJ, there is at best hesitation. "He who hesitates is lost." Bill Bunch the coach who taught Matt Lawrence all he knew about the game.

I do not see Duhon changing that aprreciably, although if JJ runs the court and gets to the corner with a step or two, it will be very nice having it in Duhon's hands. I, for one, expect Duhan to replace Nelson as the starter by midseason.

[Cockabeau]

This really sucks for JJ. He is surrounded by a moron(van gundy),a terrible overrated PG(Nelson) and an over the hill player who NEVER passes the ball(lewis)

[moonpie23]

my JJ cup is 3/4 full.......always has been....

[AZLA]

Congrats to JJ for landing a well-deserved contract. Now if the Magic could just figure out how to pass, things may change for the better. I doubt it, but hey, JJ has earned a lot of respect in the playoffs. Make him a starter and good things will happen.

[gep]

I do not see Duhon changing that aprreciably, although if JJ runs the court and gets to the corner with a step or two, it will be very nice having it in Duhon's hands. I, for one, expect Duhan to replace Nelson as the starter by midseason.

Good point. I recall watching a few Magic games... if that situation occurs where JJ runs to the corner, free, Nelson or whoever will pass somewhere else, or try to take it themselves. Chris will definitely look for JJ. And, Duhon replacing Nelson? That would be cool...:rolleyes:

[mike88]

The passes Reddick needs are inhside -out passes and that means Lewis and Howard, for starters, neither of whom have shown the slightest interest in getting it to him as a first option. Howard especially. I have noticed that if he glimpses Nelson or Carter or Lewis free at the line the ball is gone. Not so with JJ, there is at best hesitation. "He who hesitates is lost." Bill Bunch the coach who taught Matt Lawrence all he knew about the game.

I do not see Duhon changing that aprreciably, although if JJ runs the court and gets to the corner with a step or two, it will be very nice having it in Duhon's hands. I, for one, expect Duhan to replace Nelson as the starter by midseason.

JJ and Dwight work quite well together- I think you will see that if you watch a majority of the Magic games this year. JJ is the best entry passer, and while no one would describe Dwight as a great passer, he is getting better. The question is how much will they play together. SVG likes to play a consistent rotation, and last year that meant JJ usually played in the second unit with: J Williams (now C Duhon!), Pietrus, Ryan Anderson, and Gortat- they are one of the better second units in the league and will be so again this year.

JJ also plays a lot in the fourth quarter, and the Magic have not run many plays for him (not surprising when you have other guys who could get their shots more effectively). But JJ's improving ability to get fouled is the difference maker- he became one of the most efficient players in the league last year and I think you will see the Magic running more plays for him this year. Those plays will be pick and rolls - that is the staple of the Magic offense.

Finally, I am not sure why there is so much hate for Orlando. JJ specifically said that Orlando is where he wanted to be, even if it meant less $. With the Magic matching today, we should congratulate JJ on a great summer: a new marriage, a big new contract, and getting to stay and compete for a title.

[mgtr]

Hypothetical to help me understand the luxury tax and salary cap better. Suppose that Carter makes $12 million this year. Say the Magic deal him to another team, but, as would be likely, still have to pick up $5 million of his salary this year.
Does that $5 million (for a player no longer on the roster) count as part of the salary in figuring whether the Magic are over the cap? If that put them exactly $5 million over the cap, would they have to pay another $5 million in luxury tax?
Just looking for a little NBA education here, folks!

[cspan37421]

Does JJ have any option to get out early? Or does this mean he'll have 7 years under his belt before becoming an unrestricted free agent?

I hope Mike88 is right, that he really wants to be there. I think many of us wish he'd go elsewhere, feeling he was given the short end of the stick for waaay too long in Orlando.

[flyingdutchdevil]

JJ and Dwight work quite well together- I think you will see that if you watch a majority of the Magic games this year. JJ is the best entry passer, and while no one would describe Dwight as a great passer, he is getting better. The question is how much will they play together. SVG likes to play a consistent rotation, and last year that meant JJ usually played in the second unit with: J Williams (now C Duhon!), Pietrus, Ryan Anderson, and Gortat- they are one of the better second units in the league and will be so again this year.

JJ also plays a lot in the fourth quarter, and the Magic have not run many plays for him (not surprising when you have other guys who could get their shots more effectively). But JJ's improving ability to get fouled is the difference maker- he became one of the most efficient players in the league last year and I think you will see the Magic running more plays for him this year. Those plays will be pick and rolls - that is the staple of the Magic offense.

Finally, I am not sure why there is so much hate for Orlando. JJ specifically said that Orlando is where he wanted to be, even if it meant less $. With the Magic matching today, we should congratulate JJ on a great summer: a new marriage, a big new contract, and getting to stay and compete for a title.

Great post. Very accurate. Completely agree about JJ and Howard - they work very well together. JJ is a great player, but Howard is the focus of this team and rightly so. JJ is the in-between between the 1st and 2nd unit and will continue to make his way to the 1st unit as long as VC is on the downslide.

I love how everyone thinks that the team has something against JJ. JJ is a very popular figure on the team. They do pass to him. JJ's minutes aren't that high to begin with (22 a game) and he isn't a top 3 focal point on offense (Howard, Lewis, and Jameer are, and rightly so). As JJ gets more confident, shoots better, and continues to work hard, he will get more opportunities, regardless of the personnel on the team.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I love how everyone thinks that the team has something against JJ. JJ is a very popular figure on the team. They do pass to him. JJ's minutes aren't that high to begin with (22 a game) and he isn't a top 3 focal point on offense (Howard, Lewis, and Jameer are, and rightly so). As JJ gets more confident, shoots better, and continues to work hard, he will get more opportunities, regardless of the personnel on the team.
That article pointed out that he was one of only 3 players on the team to play in all 82 games last year. That's pretty impressive.

[CDu]

Hypothetical to help me understand the luxury tax and salary cap better. Suppose that Carter makes $12 million this year. Say the Magic deal him to another team, but, as would be likely, still have to pick up $5 million of his salary this year.
Does that $5 million (for a player no longer on the roster) count as part of the salary in figuring whether the Magic are over the cap? If that put them exactly $5 million over the cap, would they have to pay another $5 million in luxury tax?
Just looking for a little NBA education here, folks!

The luxury tax is determined based on the team's salary as of the last day of the season. So Orlando could be over the cap up until the day of the trade deadline and trade a bunch of players and suddenly be under the cap. If they did this, they would not pay the luxury tax.

I could be mistaken, but I believe that there is a limit to how much money can be sent along in a trade (something like $3 million). And I don't believe that such money would count against Orlando's cap/tax estimate, as it's just cash - not specifically paying the player's contract.

[CDu]

Does JJ have any option to get out early? Or does this mean he'll have 7 years under his belt before becoming an unrestricted free agent?

I hope Mike88 is right, that he really wants to be there. I think many of us wish he'd go elsewhere, feeling he was given the short end of the stick for waaay too long in Orlando.

No option to get out early unless Orlando releases him. By signing the offer sheet with Chicago (which led to Orlando matching), he's gotten guaranteed money for 3 more years. So he traded the right to become a free agent next year for two years and probably $13 million. That's a pretty good deal. And I think the fact that Orlando was willing to match says a lot about what they think of him.

[dolver]

"Redick, one of the team's most popular players..."

4 years ago, I never would have thought I would ever read those words in an article about J.J.

[elvis14]

Finally, I am not sure why there is so much hate for Orlando. JJ specifically said that Orlando is where he wanted to be, even if it meant less $. With the Magic matching today, we should congratulate JJ on a great summer: a new marriage, a big new contract, and getting to stay and compete for a title.
First, I agree that we should congratulate JJ on this contract. He's done well for himself and I've seen quotes (or video) from JJ saying that he was going to go on his honeymoon, come back, resign with the Magic and get back to work.

I don't 'hate' JJ in Orlando but I feel that he could be used better. Howard is a great talent and when he learns to do a better job of kicking the ball out to an open JJ for 3 when he gets double or tripled teamed, the whole team becomes more effective. Also, JJ is a smart player and if Howard would trust him more he'd find plenty of times where JJ would send the ball back in. The other thing about Orlando is that Nelson and Lewis (both of whom are very talented) don't seem to realize that JJ exists. It can be a bit frustrating to watch as a Duke fan.

[hq2]

J.J.'s gonna be all right in Orlando. Vince is on the way down, J.J.s on the way up. I'd say he'll be starting by late next year, and will keep starting for quite a while after that. Whether the Magic will be better with both Vince and Rashard Lewis in decline is another matter, but at least J.J.'s career is about to peak.

[Rudy]

Hopefully, his teammates will respect him more as a shooter next season and will pass him the ball more. After all, last season was the first time he lead the team in 3 pt percentage and it was a "mere" 40.5%. The season before (08-09) there were 4 other guys with 50 or more shots from the 3 pt. line who had better percentages than JJ did. http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/orl/stats

[superdave]

I think Redick was in a win-win scenario because both Orlando and Chicago should be contenders for the next few years at minimum.

It's a good point that he is on the rise and Carter on the decline. With Carter's deal having a buyout for 2012, he might be an attractive trade chip later in the season as well.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think Redick was in a win-win scenario because both Orlando and Chicago should be contenders for the next few years at minimum.

It's a good point that he is on the rise and Carter on the decline. With Carter's deal having a buyout for 2012, he might be an attractive trade chip later in the season as well.

Carter will only be an attractive trade asset after the season, me thinks. No one wants that salary on their books for the year, especially the Magic. Carter is still a decent player, but not at that price and not at the minutes he demands. However, we will be a decent veteran player.

I suspect that Orlando will be looking to offload Carter with Gortat and/or Bass this season if there are any biters.

[mgtr]

The luxury tax is determined based on the team's salary as of the last day of the season. So Orlando could be over the cap up until the day of the trade deadline and trade a bunch of players and suddenly be under the cap. If they did this, they would not pay the luxury tax.

I could be mistaken, but I believe that there is a limit to how much money can be sent along in a trade (something like $3 million). And I don't believe that such money would count against Orlando's cap/tax estimate, as it's just cash - not specifically paying the player's contract.

Thanks, I understand now. I thought the old team actually paid part of the tradee's (if there is such a word) salary. Paying that up front to the new team makes much more sense, and solves the cap problem.

[Wildling]

The other thing about Orlando is that Nelson and Lewis (both of whom are very talented) don't seem to realize that JJ exists. It can be a bit frustrating to watch as a Duke fan.

I've been beating this drum for 2 years. My wife is sick of hearing me complain about them,lol. JJ is lucky to score the amount of points he averaged this year considering the lack of respect he gets from Nelson and Lewis.

However, I really love what the Magic brass are saying, and their belief in JJ. The kid can play, and I am so glad to see him getting the kudos he deserves for busting his butt to get better.

I'm happy for JJ, he deserves this.

[CameronBornAndBred]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5385470



Van Gundy limited Redick's playing time so much in 2008 that the shooting guard and his agent went public with the frustration, asking to get more minutes or be traded.
"He and I laugh about it now. His agent and I laugh about it now," Smith said. "Back to what he was to what he has made himself become, he's made himself into a better basketball player. We kind of snicker about it now just because he put in the work, got better and it really became harder to keep him off the court."

[SilkyJ]

I, for one, expect Duhan to replace Nelson as the starter by midseason.

HAHAHA. I'll take that bet. Not. A. Chance.

[greybeard]

I thought that Gortat did a good job as a backup to Howard. I liked the way he could put it on the floor, and seemed to play smart, especially defensively.

If they get rid of him, who backs up Howard? It has to be someone you can win with when you give Howard a night or two off.

I believe that more and more you will see star players in the NBA sitting out instead of playing hurt. It makes no sense for them to "play through" these injuries either in the short run or long. Management always see these things differently but I think that quality-of-life issues are no front and center among millionaire athletes who understand that playing hurt can impact their ability to perform down the stretch and come home to roost big time 10-20 years after retirement.

So, I'm not seeing getting rid of Gortat unless they have someone who can play the center position behind Howard, I mean really play it. Or, is my assessment of Gortat off? I really haven't seen him that much.

[mike88]

Carter will only be an attractive trade asset after the season, me thinks. No one wants that salary on their books for the year, especially the Magic. Carter is still a decent player, but not at that price and not at the minutes he demands. However, we will be a decent veteran player.

I suspect that Orlando will be looking to offload Carter with Gortat and/or Bass this season if there are any biters.

The nature of Vince's contract is such that it will act somewhat like an expiring contract this year. If he is still on a team's roster next summer, they will owe him $18M for 2011-12. If they buy him out for $4M, he is off the books, I believe. So he may be a good trade piece to allow another team to get out from a (longer) bad contract. Or the Magic could keep him through the 2010-11 season, and then buy him out themselves.

I think Gortat has the most value (Centers are hard to come by) but the Magic don't have another good option at that position (Orton is a LONG way away) so the other potential trade pieces could be Bass (b/c the Magic have Ryan Anderson at the same position), Pietrus (if he were to be traded for another, cheaper 2/3) or (least likely) Nelson, who is a pretty good bargain.

Lewis is not going anywhere, nor is Dwight.

To me, the best hope is Bass+Carter for a very good, less expensive 2/3 . . .but I am not sure who that would be

[lazee]

JJ's happy to be back in Orlando.

http://www.nba.com/magic/news/denton_feature222_071610.html