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chrisj59
07-01-2010, 11:28 AM
Brian Zoubek signed with the New Jersey Nets today. More info can be found here: http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2010/07/nets_sign_haddonfield_native_b.html

CameronBornAndBred
07-01-2010, 11:30 AM
Very cool. What's a "make-good contract"?

OldPhiKap
07-01-2010, 11:31 AM
What is a "make-good" contract?

greybeard
07-01-2010, 11:41 AM
Terrific for Brian. I think that playing and practicing with Lopez can well lead to huge leaps for him. Brian will "make good"--who could tell him he won't!

ChillinDuke
07-01-2010, 11:42 AM
I am not 100% sure, but I believe a make-good contract is an un-guaranteed contract which can become guaranteed if the player makes the opening day roster.

superdave
07-01-2010, 11:43 AM
I assume this for a summer league tryout. Here's hoping BZ can stay healthy and rebound at a high rate this summer! Not many 7'1'' guys out there so he's got a good shot at making the roster.

CDu
07-01-2010, 11:44 AM
What is a "make-good" contract?

It means he gets an invite to training camp but is not guaranteed a roster spot. Basically, it's a training camp contract, with the possibility to make the team and earn a full contract.

jaimedun34
07-01-2010, 11:51 AM
Can't shed any light onto a "make-good contract" -- I can't remember a time when I Googled a word and didn't get anything close to an answer -- but here's a little more from netsdaily.com (http://www.netsdaily.com/2010/7/1/1547065/nets-sign-zoubek-and-uzoh)

The Nets announced Thursday morning that they have signed undrafted rookies Brian Zoubek and Ben Uzoh, both of whom where named to their Summer League team earlier in the week. The contracts are for the rookie minimum and are not fully guaranteed. They don't effect the team's cap space, replacing two of the four minimum cap holds that were already in place.

The Nets considered drafting both late in the second round, even looked into buying a pick. Then, as one insider noted, they got lucky when neither was drafted and were able to sign both.

OldPhiKap
07-01-2010, 01:11 PM
Good, it sounds like there is real interest by the Nets. We know Brian will work hard for it.

Go Zoobs!!!

hc5duke
07-01-2010, 01:32 PM
The article also mentions Lance Thomas made the (presumably non-guaranteed) roster:

There are 17 players on the roster, including Zoubek's teammate from Duke, Scotch Plains native Lance Thomas.

billyj
07-01-2010, 01:40 PM
This is great to hear! I think it's well deserved for this young man. Best of luck to him and hope he earns a roster spot.

bill brill
07-01-2010, 01:52 PM
when I talked to coach K on monday, he sed that the nets had cut their backup center and brian had a great chance to make the team. he will do whatever they want. K thinks he'll be in the league 10 years if he stays healthy.

tbyers11
07-01-2010, 01:56 PM
The article also mentions Lance Thomas made the (presumably non-guaranteed) roster:

The article is not clear on this point, but I am pretty sure that the 17 (including Lance) refers to the summer league roster and not the actual training camp roster that Zoubek and Uzoh just got put on by virtue of their make-good contracts.

CDu
07-01-2010, 02:22 PM
The article is not clear on this point, but I am pretty sure that the 17 (including Lance) refers to the summer league roster and not the actual training camp roster that Zoubek and Uzoh just got put on by virtue of their make-good contracts.

That is the way I would read that paragraph as well. Uzoh and Zoubek are among 17 players on the summer league team (many of whom won't sniff an NBA roster), and Zoubek and Uzoh got invites to training camp with make-good contracts.

-jk
07-01-2010, 02:30 PM
when I talked to coach K on monday, he sed that the nets had cut their backup center and brian had a great chance to make the team. he will do whatever they want. K thinks he'll be in the league 10 years if he stays healthy.

Very cool endorsement! I do hope he can stay healthy; he's had more than his share of injuries over the last few years.

-jk

Big Pappa
07-01-2010, 02:35 PM
That is the way I would read that paragraph as well. Uzoh and Zoubek are among 17 players on the summer league team (many of whom won't sniff an NBA roster), and Zoubek and Uzoh got invites to training camp with make-good contracts.

That is correct. Unfortunately, I think that Lance falls in that category.

Kedsy
07-01-2010, 02:38 PM
when I talked to coach K on monday, he sed that the nets had cut their backup center and brian had a great chance to make the team. he will do whatever they want. K thinks he'll be in the league 10 years if he stays healthy.

Wouldn't that be something?

I remember last fall when we (on the boards) were discussing whether Z would make an NBA roster, and most people around here thought the idea was laughable. It would be a wonderful end to the story, wouldn't it?

CDu
07-01-2010, 02:47 PM
Wouldn't that be something?

I remember last fall when we (on the boards) were discussing whether Z would make an NBA roster, and most people around here thought the idea was laughable. It would be a wonderful end to the story, wouldn't it?

It really would be. It's amazing how far he's come in really just the calendar year.

_TheFakeJWill_
07-01-2010, 03:12 PM
Man i wish Duke red shirted Z one of the years he was hurt. Or the possibility of him never getting hurt.

I remember yelling at my tv "K take him out" and "stop bringing the ball down" and like a light switch everything clicked w/ Zoubs! Was excellent for him to see and id lloovvee to see how he will do at the next level.

SilkyJ
07-01-2010, 03:18 PM
like a light switch everything clicked w/ Zoubs!

That's just so true. It wasn't like we saw this strong, steady growth from him over the years or even much during his senior year. Sure, we saw a little improvement year to year, like a drop step move on the baseline from time to time, but no great strides. Then it was just like all of a sudden he figured out how to play. Honestly the most amazing transformation and improvement I've ever witnessed. Nolan's improvement last year was amazing as well, doubling his scoring output and showing tremendous versatility, but having that transformation mid-season as opposed to year over year is even more amazing to me.

Go Nets, I guess!

SilkyJ
07-01-2010, 03:22 PM
NBA draft net did a mock "3rd round" draft as a bit of a joke. Zoubs goes 1st in the 3rd round, to the Nets no less...and I don't care who you are, this is funny.

"61.) New Jersey - Brian Zoubek - Zoubek only had one pre-draft workout. It was at a hospital for the physically impaired. His lack of footspeed showed as he couldn't stay in front of the kids in wheelchairs (or crutches for that matter). On a positive note, he dominated the glass. Nets pick him up with the first pick in the 3rd round."

http://www.nbadraft.net/2010-nba-draft-3rd-round

Big Pappa
07-01-2010, 03:47 PM
NBA draft net did a mock "3rd round" draft as a bit of a joke. Zoubs goes 1st in the 3rd round, to the Nets no less...and I don't care who you are, this is funny.

"61.) New Jersey - Brian Zoubek - Zoubek only had one pre-draft workout. It was at a hospital for the physically impaired. His lack of footspeed showed as he couldn't stay in front of the kids in wheelchairs (or crutches for that matter). On a positive note, he dominated the glass. Nets pick him up with the first pick in the 3rd round."

http://www.nbadraft.net/2010-nba-draft-3rd-round

Good stuff. I also like Sherron Collins':

"The Knicks get a score first PG who is a proven leader, something they have been lacking. Collins takes one look around his current teammates and proclaims, "Well, I am definitely not in Kansas anymore!" Eddy Curry coughs up a pastrami sandwich from laughter."

And Jerome Randle's:

"Celtics get instant offense off the bench and an engine that never quits. Randle swaggers up to Nate and says, "I am the new you, so you can clean out my locker now little man." He then reaches up to pat him on his head."

Big Pappa
07-01-2010, 03:56 PM
Official story from GoDuke:

http://www.goduke.com//ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204965456

greybeard
07-01-2010, 04:20 PM
I thought that Z showed an aptitude and feel for the game his first year that disappeared in his third and emerged in an entirely different way in year 4. I always thought him a terrific prospect and will not be surprised if he finds, playing with Lopez, some of the suppleness in his body that he lost due to an amazing strength gain between years 3 and 4. If so, I see his offensive game taking huge strides because he was great at setting up receptions his first year. The loss of that by year 3 I attribute to a number of factors, most prominently his injured foot but also the style of feeding the pivot that Duke favored.

I have always been a Brian fan and thought he had real promise. Like everyone else though, wow, who could have expected what he created of himself. Bravo and all speed!

hq2
07-01-2010, 04:23 PM
Saw the Nets play last year. They have a pretty good starting center in Lopez but the rest of their front line is pretty weak. I'd say Zoubs has a very good chance of making the roster. Go Zoubs!

-bdbd
07-01-2010, 06:33 PM
Man i wish Duke red shirted Z one of the years he was hurt. Or the possibility of him never getting hurt.

I remember yelling at my tv "K take him out" and "stop bringing the ball down" and like a light switch everything clicked w/ Zoubs! Was excellent for him to see and id lloovvee to see how he will do at the next level.

He must've heard you!! ;)

Devilsfan
07-01-2010, 08:34 PM
It makes me have renewed faith that hard work can still pay off in our country, Way to go Zoubs!

oldnavy
07-02-2010, 07:34 AM
I always liked Zoub and was his apologist when my friends would bust on him. However, I began to wonder if he was ever going to be a contributor. Then one game early in last season, well before his Maryland break out game, I remember thinking to myself... we are a better team when he is on the floor. I remember this because it came to me subtly, yet I was surprised by it. GO ZOUBS, keep proving them wrong!! I have a gentleman's bet with son that Zoubs will be in the league for 8+ years.

SilkyJ
07-02-2010, 12:14 PM
I have a gentleman's bet with son that Zoubs will be in the league for 8+ years.

I hope you got some good odds. I don't know what the numbers are, but I've got the imagine the number of undrafted free agents who play more than a year or two in the league is absurdly small.

Not that there aren't exceptions: Shav's been on a roster for about 4 years now...

CDu
07-02-2010, 12:21 PM
I hope you got some good odds. I don't know what the numbers are, but I've got the imagine the number of undrafted free agents who play more than a year or two in the league is absurdly small.

Not that there aren't exceptions: Shav's been on a roster for about 4 years now...

Yeah, I'd extend that to say that even 2nd round picks don't often stay in the league for 8+ years. It's a tough business with limited openings, and a constant influx of guys ready to replace you.

I'll be very pleased for Zoubek if he makes the team this year, let alone stays in the league for 8+ years. That'll be a fantastic accomplishment for a guy who struggled to get regular playing time for his first three years of college (due to injuries mostly, but the fact remains).

Big Pappa
07-02-2010, 12:21 PM
I hope you got some good odds. I don't know what the numbers are, but I've got the imagine the number of undrafted free agents who play more than a year or two in the league is absurdly small.

Not that there aren't exceptions: Shav's been on a roster for about 4 years now...

Nice little article about the Top 10 undrafted free agents ever:

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2009/05/the-top-10-undrafted-nba-players/

CDu
07-02-2010, 12:28 PM
Nice little article about the Top 10 undrafted free agents ever:

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2009/05/the-top-10-undrafted-nba-players/

I think that's current Top-10, not ever. Although considering that the draft had 7 rounds as recently as 1988, I doubt there are too many guys who went undrafted and made an impact. So it's probably a reasonable proxy.

I'd add Andres Nocioni to the list of undrafted successes. He and Calderon are sort of misleading though, as they were too old to be drafted by the time they got good. I'd certainly have put him ahead of Jannero Pargo.

Big Pappa
07-02-2010, 01:01 PM
I think that's current Top-10, not ever. Although considering that the draft had 7 rounds as recently as 1988, I doubt there are too many guys who went undrafted and made an impact. So it's probably a reasonable proxy.

I'd add Andres Nocioni to the list of undrafted successes. He and Calderon are sort of misleading though, as they were too old to be drafted by the time they got good. I'd certainly have put him ahead of Jannero Pargo.

You're right, my bad.

I would agree about Nocioni certainly ahead of Pargo. It does seem like the NBA does a good job of not missing on talented guys (more rounds in the past is certainly part of it), a much better job than the NFL for instance.

This is ever in the NFL:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?confirm=true&id=09000d5d816fb4f0&template=with-video-with-comments

Big Pappa
07-02-2010, 01:05 PM
I think that's current Top-10, not ever.

Here is best ever by the BR. Nocioni at #7.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/410608-the-20-best-undrafted-players-in-nba-history#page/16

CDu
07-02-2010, 01:23 PM
You're right, my bad.

I would agree about Nocioni certainly ahead of Pargo. It does seem like the NBA does a good job of not missing on talented guys (more rounds in the past is certainly part of it), a much better job than the NFL for instance.

This is ever in the NFL:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?confirm=true&id=09000d5d816fb4f0&template=with-video-with-comments

Yeah, even with so few rounds now, they don't seem to have that many guys that slip through the cracks.

MisterRoddy
07-05-2010, 01:37 PM
Just an update; Brian Zoubek and the NJ Nets' Summer League team will take on the 76ers' Summer League roster at 7pm on NBATV.
Also, if Im not mistaken, Lance is also on that Nets roster.

One more thing, Gerald Henderson and Gordon Hayward are playing right now, if anyone is interested.

greybeard
07-06-2010, 10:39 AM
Brian looked pretty good to be on the court last night. Didn't watch too much of it. Brian moved well off the ball, and seemed to me to have deserved more touches, especially inside but giving it up easily is not a summer league special I think. He caught one, faced up and threw a beautiful assist in the making but the receiver got taken down for two foul shots.

He looked a little less ripped to me and also more pliable through the torso which you know I think is a good thing.

The one big everyone was giving the ball to was the Wake kid, who did nothing with it but did offensive rebound the ball well.

Reisen
07-06-2010, 10:53 AM
One more thing, Gerald Henderson and Gordon Hayward are playing right now, if anyone is interested.

I saw Hayward the other day at JFK, right after the draft.

Just thought I'd add :)

juise
07-06-2010, 03:07 PM
Here's the boxscore (http://www.nba.com/magic/photos/Game_4_Box_Score070510.pdf). Zoubs had a little trouble with fouls, but I didn't get to see the game, so I'm not sure whether his line accurately reflects his contribution.

I note that the only DNP for the 76ers was Ndudi Ebi, a player Duke once recruited. It looks like he's taking another run at the Association after spending some time overseas.

Bluedog
07-06-2010, 04:21 PM
Here's the boxscore (http://www.nba.com/magic/photos/Game_4_Box_Score070510.pdf). Zoubs had a little trouble with fouls, but I didn't get to see the game, so I'm not sure whether his line accurately reflects his contribution.

I note that the only DNP for the 76ers was Ndudi Ebi, a player Duke once recruited. It looks like he's taking another run at the Association after spending some time overseas.

It shows two players on the Nets with 7 fouls...Huh? The 76ers had one person with 7 and two with 6. Is it incorrect or can you not foul out in summer league games or something?

MisterRoddy
07-06-2010, 04:38 PM
It shows two players on the Nets with 7 fouls...Huh? The 76ers had one person with 7 and two with 6. Is it incorrect or can you not foul out in summer league games or something?

The announcers actually talked about this at length during the games. A player cannot foul out during the Summer League games. For every personal foul by a single player that exceeds 6, the opposing team receives 2 free throws. For every personal foul that exceeds 10, the opposing team receives 2 free throws and the ball.

CameronBornAndBred
07-06-2010, 05:01 PM
It shows two players on the Nets with 7 fouls...Huh? The 76ers had one person with 7 and two with 6. Is it incorrect or can you not foul out in summer league games or something?
Correct, you can't foul out.

oldnavy
07-06-2010, 05:41 PM
I hope you got some good odds. I don't know what the numbers are, but I've got the imagine the number of undrafted free agents who play more than a year or two in the league is absurdly small.

Not that there aren't exceptions: Shav's been on a roster for about 4 years now...

Exactly. I would not have made the bet except that Zoubs is 7'1" and fairly coordinated. He doesn't have to start or anything, just stay on a roster and give a few minutes here and there. Also, the bigs in the pros need players to practice against, and Zoubs could certainly fill that role as well. I actually think I have a fairly safe bet barring injury. But then again I may lose it and look like a fool (wouldn't be the first time!)

roywhite
07-06-2010, 11:09 PM
Exactly. I would not have made the bet except that Zoubs is 7'1" and fairly coordinated. He doesn't have to start or anything, just stay on a roster and give a few minutes here and there. Also, the bigs in the pros need players to practice against, and Zoubs could certainly fill that role as well. I actually think I have a fairly safe bet barring injury. But then again I may lose it and look like a fool (wouldn't be the first time!)

Saw some of a summer league game tonight with Pacers vs Nets. Zoubs looked pretty good, moving well, and grabbing some rebounds. Josh McRoberts was jacking up 3-pointers all over the place---2 for 7 when I flipped by.

MisterRoddy
07-06-2010, 11:18 PM
Saw some of a summer league game tonight with Pacers vs Nets. Zoubs looked pretty good, moving well, and grabbing some rebounds. Josh McRoberts was jacking up 3-pointers all over the place---2 for 7 when I flipped by.

I liked how Zoubs played, unselfish, screens all over the place, getting some good boards. The only thing is that players seemed hesitant to pass it to Brian, regularly passing to Favors instead or Damian James pulling up for an off-balanced jump shot. I mean, obviously you can't go wrong with Favors (in the Summer League) but from what I saw, Zoubs was only fed in the post once and that one time, he posted up and had a nice little hook shot for a deuce. I really wish they would've given Zoubs more post opportunities to show what he can do.

Also, from the last of what I saw, Josh had decreased his 3 point efficiency to a whopping 2-10. Not sure what his final numbers were but I wouldn't be surprised if he had jacked up a few more threes.

roywhite
07-07-2010, 07:47 AM
http://www.nba.com/summerleague/games/20100706/INDNJN/gameinfo.html

Here are stats and highlights on the Nets vs Pacers summer league games. Zoubs looked good; note the rebounds and +/- figures. He also had tips and set good screens.

Josh McRoberts on the other hand....

amazinballer323
07-07-2010, 10:54 AM
Is Zoub's contract to be on the Nets come the fall or to be on the Summer League team and possibly invited to camp?

I could see him, and would prefer to see him, in Miami where he can set screens for Wade, Bosh, Redick if they get him, whatever happens.

CameronBornAndBred
07-07-2010, 11:48 AM
Is Zoub's contract to be on the Nets come the fall or to be on the Summer League team and possibly invited to camp?

I could see him, and would prefer to see him, in Miami where he can set screens for Wade, Bosh, Redick if they get him, whatever happens.
He will be in camp with the Nets. That's where he has to earn his roster spot. But he's agreed to be there.

silverbax
08-02-2010, 06:02 AM
Here's a video interview with Brian Zoubek, who signed with the New Jersey Nets.

I've only seen one other interview with him from this summer. Congrats to Brian, check out the video:

http://www.basketballelite.com/index.php/nba-basketball/brian-zoubek-interview-basketball-news/

DevilWearsPrada
08-02-2010, 08:52 AM
Enjoyed the video!!! Great to see Brian, working hard in the NBA!!! Thanks for posting. :cool:

moonpie23
08-02-2010, 09:05 AM
well, my son sam, was correct again.......he told me that he was SURE that brian would get a contract......and he did.......


congrats brian.......your career continues to advance....


http://ui32.gamespot.com/479/702headbanginstick_4.gif

CameronBornAndBred
08-02-2010, 12:39 PM
I haven't read anywhere that Brian has anything more than a partially guaranteed contract. I think he a great chance to make the final roster, and luckily for him he will be in training camp to make his case.



5. BRIAN ZOUBEK
Zoubek has a partially-guaranteed contract from the Nets that ensures him a training-camp invite. Even if he doesn’t stay with the Nets, Zoubek will find a home. He was one of the most efficient rebounders in all of college basketball last season, and rebounding is the skill I believe translates easiest from college to the NBA. Any team with a size and rebounding deficiency could use Zoubek.

http://dimemag.com/2010/07/10-undrafted-rookies-who-will-be-on-nba-rosters-this-fall/ (http://dimemag.com/2010/07/10-undrafted-rookies-who-will-be-on-nba-rosters-this-fall/)

ACCBBallFan
08-02-2010, 01:50 PM
Not that I ever folllow the NBA except for Team USA, this is the first that I had heard of a defensive 3 seconds in the paint rule.

CDu
08-02-2010, 02:01 PM
Not that I ever folllow the NBA except for Team USA, this is the first that I had heard of a defensive 3 seconds in the paint rule.

It's been in place for a while:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_three-second_violation

According to wikipedia, it's been since 2001. I didn't realize it had been around for that long.

Kedsy
08-02-2010, 03:38 PM
It's been in place for a while:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_three-second_violation

According to wikipedia, it's been since 2001. I didn't realize it had been around for that long.

It's the zone defense rule, but I thought they'd rescinded it. I could be wrong, though. Maybe they rescinded the old rule and replaced it with this?

sagegrouse
08-02-2010, 04:34 PM
Not that I ever folllow the NBA except for Team USA, this is the first that I had heard of a defensive 3 seconds in the paint rule.

At the risk of revealing my ignorance [So, what's new?] I believe the defensive three-second rule was put in place as part of allowing teams to play zone defense, which had previously been outlawed. This prevents them from "packing it in" and forcing outside shots, while still permitting many aspects of zone defenses.

sagegrouse

ACCBBallFan
08-02-2010, 04:44 PM
It's been in place for a while:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_three-second_violation

According to wikipedia, it's been since 2001. I didn't realize it had been around for that long.

Thanks. Yes I know they occasionally call zone defense but did not think the two were synonymous.

CDu
08-02-2010, 04:45 PM
It's the zone defense rule, but I thought they'd rescinded it. I could be wrong, though. Maybe they rescinded the old rule and replaced it with this?

Yeah, the NBA used to not allow any sort of zone defense. They rescinded that restriction to allow zones. But in place of the old illegal defense rule, we got the defensive 3-seconds rule so teams couldn't just camp a guy out in the lane on defense. The cynic in me says that this rule was put in place so as to still allow for glorious driving dunks (which would be greatly minimized if a big guy was allowed to set up shop in the lane defensively).

CDu
08-02-2010, 04:47 PM
Thanks. Yes I know they occasionally call zone defense but did not think the two were synonymous.

No no, the two are not synonymous. Zone defense used to be illegal in the NBA (the old illegal defense call), but now is allowed. When they allowed zones to be played, they then implemented a defensive 3-second rule. The penalty is the same as the old illegal defense rule, but the two are slightly different things. The 3-second call is penalizing a particular type of zone (the "free safety" play), whereas the zone defense rule prohibited ANY type of zone.

SCMatt33
08-02-2010, 04:51 PM
Yeah, the NBA used to not allow any sort of zone defense. They rescinded that restriction to allow zones. But in place of the old illegal defense rule, we got the defensive 3-seconds rule so teams couldn't just camp a guy out in the lane on defense. The cynic in me says that this rule was put in place so as to still allow for glorious driving dunks (which would be greatly minimized if a big guy was allowed to set up shop in the lane defensively).

Just to point it out, the less sinister reason was that the old rule was starting to become obsolete. I seem to remember illegal defense being called quite often just before the rule was changed. I think teams knew about how far they could go, especially with the guys in the paint, and pushed it until the refs called it once, which came with nothing but a warning.

CDu
08-02-2010, 04:57 PM
Just to point it out, the less sinister reason was that the old rule was starting to become obsolete. I seem to remember illegal defense being called quite often just before the rule was changed. I think teams knew about how far they could go, especially with the guys in the paint, and pushed it until the refs called it once, which came with nothing but a warning.

I think you may have missed my point. I wasn't complaining about dissolving the illegal defense call (which I thought was stupid). My cynicism is with regard to the subsequent implementation of the 3-second call. I think they did that so as to try to increase the possibility of driving dunks. If they'd just dissolved the 3-second call, you'd see a guy like Howard just camped out challenging anything around the rim. It'd cut into some of the excitement just a bit. With the 3-second rule, the bigs have to be just a bit more fluid and that frees up lanes for the showtime plays.

muzikfrk75
08-02-2010, 05:11 PM
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/brian_zoubek/index.html

I'm still surprised...lol...but congrats to Zou!

SCMatt33
08-02-2010, 05:43 PM
I think you may have missed my point. I wasn't complaining about dissolving the illegal defense call (which I thought was stupid). My cynicism is with regard to the subsequent implementation of the 3-second call. I think they did that so as to try to increase the possibility of driving dunks. If they'd just dissolved the 3-second call, you'd see a guy like Howard just camped out challenging anything around the rim. It'd cut into some of the excitement just a bit. With the 3-second rule, the bigs have to be just a bit more fluid and that frees up lanes for the showtime plays.

I see where you're coming from now. I tend to see it as one rule change as opposed to two. The two issues were considered together. There was never a chance of having them all taken away. I think it can be argued that not having the rule in college is unfair to offenses. Why should the defense have the right to go wherever it wants on the court, but the offense is restricted from being in the lane. If you go back in history to the creation of the 3-second rule, it was to keep play from becoming too physical in the lane (imagine what the game would be like today if offenses and defenses were allowed in the lane unrestricted, it would be like the line of scrimmage in football). There's no inherent reason why the defense should gain an advantage from this, so why not kick them both out of the lane.

dukemath
08-02-2010, 05:52 PM
I believe you get 10 fouls in the summer league.

CameronBornAndBred
08-02-2010, 06:27 PM
http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/text/threadjacked.gif (http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/posting.php?mode=smilies&f=3#)
Anyone have actual news on Zoubs? Also when does training camp start?

CDu
08-02-2010, 06:49 PM
http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/text/threadjacked.gif (http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/posting.php?mode=smilies&f=3#)
Anyone have actual news on Zoubs? Also when does training camp start?

Training camps start end of September/beginning of October. There probably won't be much news until then.

ACCBBallFan
08-02-2010, 08:06 PM
No no, the two are not synonymous. Zone defense used to be illegal in the NBA (the old illegal defense call), but now is allowed. When they allowed zones to be played, they then implemented a defensive 3-second rule. The penalty is the same as the old illegal defense rule, but the two are slightly different things. The 3-second call is penalizing a particular type of zone (the "free safety" play), whereas the zone defense rule prohibited ANY type of zone.Thanks, CDu, and congrats to your namesake on the camp and the wedding.

gep
08-03-2010, 12:15 AM
Who would have thought... going into last season, and with Coach K's comment that Lance could make an NBA team. I would have put possibilities of seniors as Jon, Lance, and "probably not" Zoubs... in that order... making an NBA team. Now, looks like Zoubs has a real good chance to make it. Good for Zoubs. I think it's his beard... gotta be.

I also went through the SI commemorative 2010 NCAAT hard-cover book again... and Zoubs really looks GOOD. He was the missing piece. As one article said, the "master chef" put Zoubs in the Maryland game to get another senior into the start... and the rest, they say, is history.

CDu
08-03-2010, 11:58 AM
Thanks, CDu, and congrats to your namesake on the camp and the wedding.

No sweat. And yeah, it's a pretty good summer for my namesake.

moonpie23
09-08-2010, 06:57 AM
i didn't want to put this in the sean may thread, but...it cracked me up..


i told my son, sam, that sean may had broken his foot and would not be on the nets this year. he replied, "ouch! that'st gotta hurt"


he continued to eat his breakfast, then paused and said, "dad? who's gonna carry zoub's stuff now?"


http://ui32.gamespot.com/479/702headbanginstick_2.gif

SilkyJ
09-08-2010, 01:12 PM
i didn't want to put this in the sean may thread, but...it cracked me up..


I told my son, sam, that sean may had broken his foot and would not be on the nets this year. He replied, "ouch! That'st gotta hurt"


he continued to eat his breakfast, then paused and said, "dad? Who's gonna carry zoub's stuff now?"


hahahahahahahahaha. http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c351/lilracers/emoticons/ROTFLMAO.gif

Bluedog
10-03-2010, 07:35 PM
With roster cuts looming, the back injury to Duke rookie and Haddonfield native Brian Zoubek is not exactly ideal. Johnson said that “he’s not doing great, he’s going to be out another week.”

Johnson said they’ll continue to evaluate him as time goes on. Zoubek painted the injury in a little less serious light: “I strained my back a little bit,” he said. “It’s nothing serious. I don’t think it’s affected my chances, I think (the staff) realizes it’s something that’s not that serious.”

http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2010/10/nets_looking_to_stabilize_line.html

NBA debut in Europe is going to have to wait. Hopefully, it's not too serious and Zoubek can make the roster. Get well quickly Zoubs!

flyingdutchdevil
10-04-2010, 05:37 AM
Why is it that when Duke players go to the NBA, they inevitably get injured right away? This happened to JJ, Zoubs, Scheyer, probably a few more...

SCMatt33
10-22-2010, 09:50 PM
Chris Mannix from SI reporting (http://twitter.com/ChrisMannixSI/status/28446584172) on twitter that Zoubs is cut to get the roster down to 15. Not really surprising given his back injury forcing him not to play at all in the preseason and the team lack of guards making a big man more likely to go. I doubt anyone will sign him until his back is in better shape.

:(:(:(:(

moonpie23
10-22-2010, 10:27 PM
bummer.....did shav get cut too? he's not on the heat's roster any more...

lazee
10-22-2010, 10:38 PM
bummer.....did shav get cut too? he's not on the heat's roster any more...

Yes, he did.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/10/20/1882708/miami-heat-waives-kenny-hasbrouck.html

Mcluhan
10-23-2010, 11:55 AM
Chris Mannix from SI reporting (http://twitter.com/ChrisMannixSI/status/28446584172) on twitter that Zoubs is cut to get the roster down to 15. Not really surprising given his back injury forcing him not to play at all in the preseason and the team lack of guards making a big man more likely to go. I doubt anyone will sign him until his back is in better shape.

:(:(:(:(

Too bad. Both Scheyer and Zoubs ran into some bad luck at a time when they couldn't afford any.

I wonder if there's interest from Europe.

JasonEvans
10-23-2010, 03:24 PM
I wonder if there's interest from Europe.

Zoub may be better off getting healthy and playing in the D-league as he awaits a call-up by an NBA team that runs into injuries.

-Jason "I still think he has a future in the league" Evans

SCMatt33
10-23-2010, 04:29 PM
Zoub may be better off getting healthy and playing in the D-league as he awaits a call-up by an NBA team that runs into injuries.

This is definitely the way for Zoubs to go given that the Euroleague has already started and I doubt that many high level European clubs have an available roster spot for an American at this point. I would also think that the Nets would still be interested since they kept him around so long even with the injury if one of their centers were to go down for an extended period of time.

Mcluhan
10-23-2010, 06:56 PM
Zoub may be better off getting healthy and playing in the D-league as he awaits a call-up by an NBA team that runs into injuries.

-Jason "I still think he has a future in the league" Evans

Yeah, I'd say that it depends on what kind of money he could be offered in Europe. That could be a real cool experience, and if on top of that it could be

And get some money under your belt for summer leagues back here, etc.

Nellie was the only guy who called up a lot of d-leaguers, and with him gone it will be interesting to see if there a lot of call-ups.

It would be cool to see Duke could play a d-league team. A great challenge.

Mcluhan
10-23-2010, 07:11 PM
Here's hoping Ewill has a good year with the Blazers. I like that team.

hq2
10-23-2010, 07:13 PM
I think we'll see Zoubs in an NBA uniform once he gets healthy. The season is long, injuries are common among big men he could replace, and he was very close to making it. Let's see if he can sustain the level of play he showed late last year while he's in the NBDL; then he'll get his NBA chance.

JasonEvans
10-24-2010, 09:37 AM
It would be cool to see Duke could play a d-league team. A great challenge.

We would get killed... well, maybe not killed but we would lose by double-digits. The D-league is full of guys who were college stars but just barely failed to make an NBA team. Plus, they are so much more physically mature and experienced, they would wear us down. I'd put the line on the game at about 15-18 points.

--Jason "by the way, Duke versus the worst NBA team would be a 30+ point whipping" Evans

DevilHorns
10-24-2010, 10:15 AM
We would get killed... well, maybe not killed but we would lose by double-digits. The D-league is full of guys who were college stars but just barely failed to make an NBA team. Plus, they are so much more physically mature and experienced, they would wear us down. I'd put the line on the game at about 15-18 points.

--Jason "by the way, Duke versus the worst NBA team would be a 30+ point whipping" Evans

It's the same for International play. If we played FC Barcelona Basquet or an International team like Turkey we would get smoked too. Now if we played a bottom feeder International team like Iran... I think we could handle them. :)

Mcluhan
10-24-2010, 06:00 PM
We would get killed... well, maybe not killed but we would lose by double-digits. The D-league is full of guys who were college stars but just barely failed to make an NBA team. Plus, they are so much more physically mature and experienced, they would wear us down. I'd put the line on the game at about 15-18 points.

--Jason "by the way, Duke versus the worst NBA team would be a 30+ point whipping" Evans

I totally agree, and think it would be cool for being such a steep challenge.

juise
10-24-2010, 11:16 PM
We would get killed... well, maybe not killed but we would lose by double-digits. The D-league is full of guys who were college stars but just barely failed to make an NBA team. Plus, they are so much more physically mature and experienced, they would wear us down. I'd put the line on the game at about 15-18 points.

--Jason "by the way, Duke versus the worst NBA team would be a 30+ point whipping" Evans

You're probably right on this, but this question reminds me of the traveling exhibition teams that used to exist, like the EA Sports All-Stars. They had several all-conference players who were now in their mid/late 20's or early 30's. They often won games against decent teams (like UNC... not Duke). They played together for a few weeks. All of this sounds similar to a D-league team. On the other hand, I would not feel nearly as good about Duke playing a European pro team.

NovaScotian
10-24-2010, 11:54 PM
It's the same for International play. If we played FC Barcelona Basquet or an International team like Turkey we would get smoked too. Now if we played a bottom feeder International team like Iran... I think we could handle them. :)

i take a lot of offense to that. iran's team played much better than expected in the world championships this year, and is hardly a 'bottom feeder' team, as the won fiba's asia tournament to earn a spot in the worlds. duke would have little to nothing to answer to iran dumping the ball to 7-6 center hamed haddadi (who plays pro ball for memphis).


also, i'm iranian.

DevilHorns
10-25-2010, 12:03 AM
i take a lot of offense to that. iran's team played much better than expected in the world championships this year, and is hardly a 'bottom feeder' team, as the won fiba's asia tournament to earn a spot in the worlds. duke would have little to nothing to answer to iran dumping the ball to 7-6 center hamed haddadi (who plays pro ball for memphis).


also, i'm iranian.

Ah, I apologize. Did not mean to offend. I was under the impression that Iran was one of the weaker teams in International play. I guess that wouldn't really make any sense as they did qualify for the Worlds by winning the FIBA Asia tourney.

This brings up an interesting thought... was there ever a time when the top U.S. college team could play competitively against the average International team?

duke4ever19
10-25-2010, 12:17 AM
I don't think it was a personal attack against your country, so there's no reason to be offended. Although Iran recently had a good couple of years they aren't in any way a "traditional powerhouse" international team.

Actually, it's a historical fact that the Iranian basketball team (until 2008 Olympics) is what the average fan would call a "bad team"..... they hadn't qualified for an Olympics for 60 years. Their records in international play is mostly "did not qualify" and even "did not enter".

NovaScotian
10-25-2010, 08:39 AM
I don't think it was a personal attack against your country, so there's no reason to be offended. Although Iran recently had a good couple of years they aren't in any way a "traditional powerhouse" international team.

Actually, it's a historical fact that the Iranian basketball team (until 2008 Olympics) is what the average fan would call a "bad team"..... they hadn't qualified for an Olympics for 60 years. Their records in international play is mostly "did not qualify" and even "did not enter".

i don't think it was a personal attack either. alls i'm saying is that calling them a 'bottom feeder' is plain wrong, and regardless of their historical ineptitude they are a team on the rise, and a team full of grown as men who, in my estimation, would probably beat duke.

but back to brian zoubek, that kid needs to use this year to grow some more interesting facial hair or something, so the nets will want to resign him.

JasonEvans
10-25-2010, 10:00 AM
You're probably right on this, but this question reminds me of the traveling exhibition teams that used to exist, like the EA Sports All-Stars. They had several all-conference players who were now in their mid/late 20's or early 30's. They often won games against decent teams (like UNC... not Duke). They played together for a few weeks. All of this sounds similar to a D-league team. On the other hand, I would not feel nearly as good about Duke playing a European pro team.

You understand that those traveling teams were generally made up of guys who were not good enough to make the CBA (now the D-league), right? Playing a D-League team is a big step up from those exhibition teams.

--Jason "Duke versus a D-league team is a loss" Evans

sagegrouse
10-25-2010, 10:07 AM
i take a lot of offense to that. iran's team played much better than expected in the world championships this year, and is hardly a 'bottom feeder' team, as the won fiba's asia tournament to earn a spot in the worlds. duke would have little to nothing to answer to iran dumping the ball to 7-6 center hamed haddadi (who plays pro ball for memphis).


also, i'm iranian.


Aha!!! We may have provoked an international incident. Edging into global politics may be a first for the Board.

I don't think any offense was intended, Nova Scotian.

sagegrouse

Gewebe14
10-25-2010, 11:44 AM
Looking at the roster of the worst (by record last year) D-league team I don't see why Duke couldn't beat them or at least play pretty competitively.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/springfield/roster/

It's probably worse than you'd expect - I've never heard of hardly any of them.

juise
10-25-2010, 12:31 PM
You understand that those traveling teams were generally made up of guys who were not good enough to make the CBA (now the D-league), right? Playing a D-League team is a big step up from those exhibition teams.

--Jason "Duke versus a D-league team is a loss" Evans

No, I didn't actually understand that. I thought that a lot of the guys were playing during their CBA/foreign offseason. I thought they did it because it was a small time commitment and it gave them some exposure in the states. I remember when Antionio Lang came to Cameron that he had been playing overseas the year before. I am not in a position to do the much research, but I may be able to later.

RoyalBlue08
10-25-2010, 12:40 PM
I'm not so sure we would automatically lose to a D league team. We got 3 stars would will be first round picks next season, and a bunch of other good offensive players. And we will be coached better. I'd like to see a game....somebody set this up!

Bluedog
10-25-2010, 01:13 PM
While I think it would be a challenge to play a D-league team, I agree that it wouldn't be an automatic shellacking. I mean, players like Dave McClure play in the D-league and while I think he was a great asset to our team, he certainly was not close to a star at Duke, averaging 2.2 pts/game. In the D-league, he averaged 2.7 ppg last season so it's not like he's a star there either (although scoring was never his strength, all about the D, as he averaged 14 mpg in the D-league, and averaged 14 mpg at Duke).

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=david_mcclure

And look at that hair! Who said Coach K doesn't have a hair policy? ;) Talents like Kyrie, Kyle, and Nolan could hold their own against that competition. The rest would be quite a challenge though. We'd have struggles in the frontcourt, for sure. I'd like to see it too.

monkey
10-25-2010, 01:41 PM
We would get killed... well, maybe not killed but we would lose by double-digits. The D-league is full of guys who were college stars but just barely failed to make an NBA team. Plus, they are so much more physically mature and experienced, they would wear us down. I'd put the line on the game at about 15-18 points.

--Jason "by the way, Duke versus the worst NBA team would be a 30+ point whipping" Evans

Ok just for the sake of argument, I'll disagree - I don't think we would get killed versus the D-League team (not an all-star team but just a regular D-League team). There may be many former college stars - but others, such as our own David McClure (on a roster last year), were not necessarily ones I would characterize as such (David Noel from Carolina is another). In addition, I would be interested in the level of team play in the D-league - never having seen a game - versus an NBA team, this sort of thing would matter less because sheer athleticism could dominate. Not sure that would be the case on a Duke v D-League matchup. Last point - Duke looks pretty good this year.

The physical maturity aspect may be a good point, but I would counter with the exceptional coaching the Blue Devil team would be receiving ;)

JasonEvans
10-25-2010, 03:01 PM
Ok just for the sake of argument, I'll disagree - I don't think we would get killed versus the D-League team (not an all-star team but just a regular D-League team).

to be clear, I specifically said we would not get killed. I said we would lose, likely by double-digits.

I agree that our top few players are better than most D-Leaguers, but the drop off to the our bottom end starters and our bench would be severe and likely prove to be the difference.

It is also worth noting that the D-Leaguers are just going to be more physically mature and stronger than us. These are guys who are in their mid-20s who have been playing basketball 40+ hours a week with no classes or homework to worry about.

I actually spoke about this with a guy I know who is an NBA scout a few years ago when Memphis seemed to be loaded with athletic talent. I specifically asked how they would do against a D-League team and he laughed at me. He said I had no idea the maturity these guys undergo between 21 and 25 years of age.

Duke is darn good this year and loaded with NBA-quality talent, but do not mistake young talent for guys who are actually pros.

--Jason "the speed of the D-league game, like the NBA game, would be a real challenge for us" Evans