UK: Isn't it, "None and Done," not "One and Done?"

[4decadedukie]

Kentucky's/Calipari's 2010 NBA draft performance raises an interesting issue. We tend to term his many freshman dropouts who were selected in last night's draft "One and Done" collegiate players. However, aren't most (although not all) of them really "None and Done" college athletes, because -- as frequently reported -- their first semester grades were very poor and they essentially did not even attend classes in the second semester? I contrast this to a Duke one-year student-athlete (such as Loul Deng), who fully participated in the University's the academic elements during his year in Durham.

[OldPhiKap]

Kentucky's/Calipari's 2010 NBA draft performance raises an interesting issue. We tend to term his many freshman dropouts who were selected in last night's draft "One and Done" collegiate players. However, aren't most (although not all) of them really "None and Done" college athletes, because -- as frequently reported -- their first semester grades were very poor and they essentially did not even attend classes in the second semester? I contrast this to a Duke one-year student-athlete (such as Loul Deng), who fully participated in the University's the academic elements during his year in Durham.

Link? I'd like to jump on the bandwagon but would like to see what really happened.

[Bluedog]

Kentucky's/Calipari's 2010 NBA draft performance raises an interesting issue. We tend to term his many freshman dropouts who were selected in last night's draft "One and Done" collegiate players. However, aren't most (although not all) of them really "None and Done" college athletes, because -- as frequently reported -- their first semester grades were very poor and they essentially did not even attend classes in the second semester? I contrast this to a Duke one-year student-athlete (such as Loul Deng), who fully participated in the University's the academic elements during his year in Durham.

I don't think there's anything officially published since that would be a violation of FERPA. But the rumors are the John Wall was one of the best students on the team and completed his first year in good standing (that was substantiated by Cal). PPat also was a good student who went to class and completed his junior year. Surprisingly, Cousins, who you'd think would have been the biggest headcase, supposedly finished the year in "good" standing (meaning he didn't fail out, but I don't think his GPA was any good). Orton and Bledsoe were the two that supposedly didn't finish the year in good standing and would not have been able to play next year at all (surprising that those are the last two selected, right? ;) They knew they had to go...Orton wasn't seen on campus after the season finished at all, instead training in California to prepare for the draft). So, you can't paint all the UK players with the same brush. They're only 2/5 "none and done." 2/5 were "one and done." And 1/4 was "three and done."

And while I do find it enjoyable to harp on Kentucky, I'd say that MANY elite basketball players miss a TON of class. Certain professors/classes are more lenient than others. Typically, the basketball players know that ahead of time and strategically pick courses. Some of the missing is legitimate due to practice/games/traveling, but other times it's not. I knew somebody who had a second semester class with JJ who saw him twice on non test days. On the other hand, I know somebody who took several courses with Zoubek and said he was always there, participated a lot, and is really smart.

[miramar]

Who was the guy who, the one time they won the national championship, practically went directly from the airport to his dorm room to clear out his stuff?

He was gone the next day if memory serves me correctly.

[MCFinARL]

I don't think there's anything officially published since that would be a violation of FERPA. But the rumors are the John Wall was one of the best students on the team and completed his first year in good standing (that was substantiated by Cal). PPat also was a good student who went to class and completed his junior year. Surprisingly, Cousins, who you'd think would have been the biggest headcase, supposedly finished the year in "good" standing (meaning he didn't fail out, but I don't think his GPA was any good). Orton and Bledsoe were the two that supposedly didn't finish the year in good standing and would not have been able to play next year at all (surprising that those are the last two selected, right? ;) They knew they had to go...Orton wasn't seen on campus after the season finished at all, instead training in California to prepare for the draft). So, you can't paint all the UK players with the same brush. They're only 2/5 "none and done." 2/5 were "one and done." And 1/4 was "three and done."

And while I do find it enjoyable to harp on Kentucky, I'd say that MANY elite basketball players miss a TON of class. Certain professors/classes are more lenient than others. Typically, the basketball players know that ahead of time and strategically pick courses. Some of the missing is legitimate due to practice/games/traveling, but other times it's not. I knew somebody who had a second semester class with JJ who saw him twice on non test days. On the other hand, I know somebody who took several courses with Zoubek and said he was always there, participated a lot, and is really smart.

Maybe it was just that particular class for JJ--my daughter took Statistics with JJ and Shelden and they were usually there. It might have been first semester, though, when the schedule doesn't really pick up until November.

[cato]

Who was the guy who, the one time they won the national championship, practically went directly from the airport to his dorm room to clear out his stuff?

He was gone the next day if memory serves me correctly.

Wilcox

[cato]

Maybe it was just that particular class for JJ--my daughter took Statistics with JJ and Shelden and they were usually there. It might have been first semester, though, when the schedule doesn't really pick up until November.

Then JJ and Shelden were better at attending class than I was. I only remember going to one non-test Stats class. Why go to lecture, when all of the material is right there in the book?

Of course, I believe basketball players are required by the team to attend class. One of the many reasons it's a whole lot easier to be a just a regular student.

[cspan37421]

Why go to lecture, when all of the material is right there in the book?

Why pay college tuition, when books are plentiful and comparatively cheap? Just to get into games?

Math may be unusual in that respect; most of my non-math classes covered material in the lectures or class time that differed from the assigned readings. In the end, what you were responsible for was the union of those two sets, and they did not overlap very much. So when I went, you really had to go to class to do well, and w/r/t math (I was a major), I wasn't so smart that I could teach college and graduate level mathematics to myself.

[Bluedog]

Maybe it was just that particular class for JJ--my daughter took Statistics with JJ and Shelden and they were usually there. It might have been first semester, though, when the schedule doesn't really pick up until November.

Yes, it was a second semester class that I was talking about. Obviously, their schedules are much more flexible first semester since the season just starts near the end of it. I think it was his junior or senior season, I can't remember. A large psych lecture course, though, so probably even non-athletes didn't attend all the time. In any event, the post wasn't meant to bash JJ in any way. From all accounts, he got all his work done in a timely manner and graduated with no issues. I just meant to suggest that I don't think UK is the only school where this occurs - even at Duke, some b-ball players hardly go to class, but it certainly varies on the semester/class/particular player. Overall, though, we've historically had players that value education and get the necessary class work done. It's certainly something to be proud of and UK clearly has some work to do in this regard.

[cspan37421]

PS Even though it is claimed that Wall got a 3.5 GPA in his spring semester (I've just read that he claims it himself), what courses did he take? IIRC his academics at the Raleigh Athletic Mill were suspect; are we to believe that he focused on them more at UK than in HS, knowing he was just marking time? Good for him if it is true; however, I'm skeptical that a) he took more than 2 classes, and b) that those classes were academically challenging in the slightest. It would be great to be wrong on this, but I just find it hard to believe.

[Cockabeau]

"None and done" is whats going to happen to UK after Cal gets whatever he wins rescinded and hauls I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. ;)

[jmb]

Maybe it was just that particular class for JJ--my daughter took Statistics with JJ and Shelden and they were usually there. It might have been first semester, though, when the schedule doesn't really pick up until November.

I was in that class as well. It was second semester (i.e. basketball season) of their senior year. I distinctly remember it being basketball season because the professor used JJ's relative FT shooting woes that year as an example of comparing means (determining whether his FT% was statistically different from other years). It was a little awkward

[cato]

Why pay college tuition, when books are plentiful and comparatively cheap? Just to get into games?

I can assure you that the entry level stats class I took to satisfy my graduation requirements was worth less than the ability to get into games.


Math may be unusual in that respect; most of my non-math classes covered material in the lectures or class time that differed from the assigned readings. In the end, what you were responsible for was the union of those two sets, and they did not overlap very much. So when I went, you really had to go to class to do well, and w/r/t math (I was a major), I wasn't so smart that I could teach college and graduate level mathematics to myself. Oh, I agree. In classes in my major I probably had near 100% attendence. But there were certainly some classes that I took where lectures added absolutely nothing (other than A/C in early fall, late spring).

[Bluedog]

PS Even though it is claimed that Wall got a 3.5 GPA in his spring semester (I've just read that he claims it himself), what courses did he take? IIRC his academics at the Raleigh Athletic Mill were suspect; are we to believe that he focused on them more at UK than in HS, knowing he was just marking time? Good for him if it is true; however, I'm skeptical that a) he took more than 2 classes, and b) that those classes were academically challenging in the slightest. It would be great to be wrong on this, but I just find it hard to believe.

Don't know what classes he took during the year, but I know his first summer school class was a remedial math course covering second year high school algebra. (Math 108R, which is recommended for those with <18 on the Math ACT, or less than about a 440 for you SAT people) Here's verification of that:

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7016223485?Summer%20School%20A%20Breeze%20For%20Ke ntucky%20Recruit%20Wall;%20Posts%204.0%20GPA

It's a course a full 4 semesters of math behind the LOWEST math course offering at Duke....

But does it really matter? He knew he was going to the league. He took classes that obviously aren't that challenging, but did fine in them.

[Jderf]

Why pay college tuition, when books are plentiful and comparatively cheap? Just to get into games?

To have a piece of paper from an "accredited institution" that proves that you read the books?

[cspan37421]

To have a piece of paper from an "accredited institution" that proves that you read the books?

More or less ... my question was rhetorical.

[UrinalCake]

So my question is, when will the NCAA's Academic Progress Requirements eventually catch up to Calipari? We're always hearing about these rules that are in place to maintain the integrity of college athletics - programs have to graduate a certain percentage of their players, guys that leave early have to be in god academic standing, etc. But do these rules actually carry any weight? If Cal continues to bring in one-and-done'ers every year, and let's say one out of every five players actually graduates (which might be a stretch in itself), then will there be any real consequences?