NBA Draft

[weezie]

Anybody keeping track here?
Who knew Aminu was a closet Urkel?
I have mild respect for Greg Monroe to the Pistons, maybe he can learn something.
Heyward the 9 pick, wow. Didn't see that coming....more respect for K knowing Woody was weak from the 3.

[FireOgilvie]

Anybody keeping track here?
Who knew Aminu was a closet Urkel?

He definitely looks like Urkel, although I thought Urkel was smart... Aminu needs to work on his interviewing skills.

No surprises so far in the draft; it's been very predictable.

In another shocker, Utah chooses a tall white guy that can shoot (Hayward). They'll love him out there.

[weezie]

He definitely looks like Urkel, although I thought Urkel was smart... Aminu needs to work on his interviewing skills.



Uh, y'know?!

[FireOgilvie]

Looks like Ed Davis made the wrong choice by coming back to UNC. He was a top 4 pick last year and he just fell out of the top 10.

"That's a turrible idea" - Charles Barkley

[moonpie23]

aldrich and PP still sitting....

[arydolphin]

I'll repost this from the other thread:
Calipari was just interviewed on the NBA Draft telecast, and he called today "the biggest day in the history of Kentucky basketball" because of all of the players getting drafted in the first round, including UK's first #1 overall pick. I'm guessing all of those national championships that UK won in the past weren't as important as where guys get drafted to the NBA in Calipari's world!

[moonpie23]

spoke too soon.......aldrich to new ahlins

[dukelifer]

Looks like Ed Davis made the wrong choice by coming back to UNC. He was a top 4 pick last year and he just fell out of the top 10.

"That's a turrible idea" - Charles Barkley

He is still in a cast. He clearly lost the ability to show what he can do in workouts. But he did lose a lot of cash by going now. Things in Chapel Hill must not have been good.

[moonpie23]

I'll repost this from the other thread:
Calipari was just interviewed on the NBA Draft telecast, and he called today "the biggest day in the history of Kentucky basketball" because of all of the players getting drafted in the first round, including UK's first #1 overall pick. I'm guessing all of those national championships that UK won in the past weren't as important as where guys get drafted to the NBA in Calipari's world!

someone needs to bring that up on Catspause.com


i would, but....well, .....i seem to be having some trouble with my login...

;)

[moonpie23]

davis@13 is not bad.....

[Cockabeau]

Ed Davis will be a bust

[DukieTiger]

I'll repost this from the other thread:
Calipari was just interviewed on the NBA Draft telecast, and he called today "the biggest day in the history of Kentucky basketball" because of all of the players getting drafted in the first round, including UK's first #1 overall pick. I'm guessing all of those national championships that UK won in the past weren't as important as where guys get drafted to the NBA in Calipari's world!

Ahh but you forget, in Calipari's world you don't get to keep any championships you win.

[arydolphin]

Ed Davis at #13 to the Raptors is the Chris Bosh replacement plan for that team.

[theAlaskanBear]

I'll repost this from the other thread:
Calipari was just interviewed on the NBA Draft telecast, and he called today "the biggest day in the history of Kentucky basketball" because of all of the players getting drafted in the first round, including UK's first #1 overall pick. I'm guessing all of those national championships that UK won in the past weren't as important as where guys get drafted to the NBA in Calipari's world!

Yeah I was going to mention this. I was incredulous when he said that...but I thought, "go figure".

....and there goes Pat Pat at #14 to Houston. Can we get another Cal quote? :rolleyes:

[Duvall]

Ed Davis at #13 to the Raptors is the Chris Bosh replacement plan for that team.

Hard to see Davis not excelling in that situation.

[theAlaskanBear]

Anybody keeping track here?
Who knew Aminu was a closet Urkel?
I have mild respect for Greg Monroe to the Pistons, maybe he can learn something.
Heyward the 9 pick, wow. Didn't see that coming....more respect for K knowing Woody was weak from the 3.

I think the Aminu pick is the most surprising so far. They have a way better PF (blake griffen)...and Aminu really mailed it in at times....doesnt have a well rounding skill set...cant dribble or shoot...head-scratcher....

[weezie]

Ed Davis at #13 to the Raptors is the Chris Bosh replacement plan for that team.

Ahahahah, that's funny! Good one!

OK, boring. Time to go read Ulysses.

[miramar]

I'll repost this from the other thread:
Calipari was just interviewed on the NBA Draft telecast, and he called today "the biggest day in the history of Kentucky basketball" because of all of the players getting drafted in the first round, including UK's first #1 overall pick. I'm guessing all of those national championships that UK won in the past weren't as important as where guys get drafted to the NBA in Calipari's world!

Since Kentucky has officially joined the D-League, the only thing that matters is the number of players who are called up. NCAA championships don't count in Calworld.

[Duvall]

I think the Aminu pick is the most surprising so far. They have a way better PF (blake griffen)...and Aminu really mailed it in at times....doesnt have a well rounding skill set...cant dribble or shoot...head-scratcher....

Until you realize that it's the Clippers, and then it all makes perfect sense.

[jipops]

I may be in the minority here but I think the Warriors made a great pick in taking Ekpe Udoh. I really like what this kid brings to the table. One aspect none of analysts brought up were his assist numbers. He's really an excellent passer to go along with all of his physical abilities. The Warriors finally have a guy that can play defense so I think he'll be a great fit and flourish there.

[theAlaskanBear]

I may be in the minority here but I think the Warriors made a great pick in taking Ekpe Udoh. I really like what this kid brings to the table. One aspect none of analysts brought up were his assist numbers. He's really an excellent passer to go along with all of his physical abilities. The Warriors finally have a guy that can play defense so I'll think he'll be a great fit and flourish there.

Yeah that and he is probably the only big man in the draft who can run fast enough to keep up with the Warriors pace ;)

I thought Babbit was also a great pick because he can really shoot it, and the Wolves seem intent on trading Jefferson....

....but then they trade him to Portland?

[Big Pappa]

Yeah that and he is probably the only big man in the draft who can run fast enough to keep up with the Warriors pace ;)

I thought Babbit was also a great pick because he can really shoot it, and the Wolves seem intent on trading Jefferson....

....but then they trade him to Portland?

Great deal for Portland. They get Ryan Gomes and Babbit for Martell Webster. IMO no one does a better job of getting and developing young talent than Portland - Roy, Aldridge, now Babbit. Just think if they had taken Durant instead of Oden.

[Newton_14]

Looks like Ed Davis made the wrong choice by coming back to UNC. He was a top 4 pick last year and he just fell out of the top 10.

"That's a turrible idea" - Charles Barkley

So instead of being a millionaire, Davis is only going to be, well, a millionaire.... turrible idea indeed..:cool::p:)

[FireOgilvie]

So instead of being a millionaire, Davis is only going to be, well, a millionaire.... turrible idea indeed..:cool::p:)

Yeah, he probably lost 6 million dollars and was injured. Smart.

Oh, Elliot was just drafted! I called that he would leave early for the draft 8 months ago and no one believed me.

[blazindw]

Email to Portland. Good for him, I hope he does well there.

[arydolphin]

Email to Portland. Good for him, I hope he does well there.

Same sentiment here. The guaranteed contract for being a first-round pick will definitely help his family. Best wishes to him, and I hope his mother's health improves.

[Orange&BlackSheep]

OK, boring. Time to go read Ulysses.

OK, this is genius.

[arydolphin]

Holy crap, Trevor Booker got drafted in the first round! He goes to Minnesota...but they already have Kevin Love and Al Jefferson, where is he going to play?

[jipops]

Glad to see Booker make the 1st round. I hope he finds a role with the TWolves.

[sagegrouse]

Glad to see Booker make the 1st round. I hope he finds a role with the TWolves.

Headed to Washington.

sagegrouse

[miramar]

With two first rounders (Avery Bradley & Damion James) and plenty of other talent, I don't understand how Texas went from 17-0 in mid-January to 24-10 at the end of the season. Not quite UNC, but close enough.

[Newton_14]

Yeah, he probably lost 6 million dollars and was injured. Smart.

Oh, Elliot was just drafted! I called that he would leave early for the draft 8 months ago and no one believed me.

I was half kidding for the most part but my point is people (in general not you necessarily) make way too much over that so called "lost money". If he ends up as a half decent player he is going to be a millionaire. It's that simple.

He will have enough money to live comfortably the rest of his life. To say he made a bad decision, to me, just does not hold water. Money is not the end all be all, especially for a guy who no matter when he decides to join the NBA is going to sign a contract for millions.

And my point is for these guys in general, not Ed Davis. He just happened to be the current example.

[arydolphin]

Greivis Vazquez goes to Memphis near the end of the first round.

[moonpie23]

GO GRAVE-US.........I want to see him thrive on the big stage !!

[rthomas]

There seems to be a lot of bitterness on this thread for some reason. What is up with ya'll?

Weirdness.

[JasonEvans]

My Hawks made a great deal, trading the #24 pick for the #27 and the #31... and then they sold the #31 pick to Oklahoma City for cash.

Sigh... the ownership here in Atlanta is embarassingly horrible and stingy. Joe Johnson is going to leave and we are going to suck next year.

--Jason "they shoulda taken Solomon Alabi with the #31... and not sold his rights to anyone" Evans

[JasonEvans]

With two first rounders (Avery Bradley & Damion James) and plenty of other talent, I don't understand how Texas went from 17-0 in mid-January to 24-10 at the end of the season. Not quite UNC, but close enough.

And Dexter Pittman just went at #32. Texas was loaded with talent but the coaching was -- well -- not quite there this year.

--Jason "in about 15 picks, we need to start rooting for Zoub and Scheyer to not get picked at all, so they can bee free agents and pick their own situation" Evans

[moonpie23]

i am watching and hoping that Jon or Brian, or even lance names would grace a slot.....but alas...

however......i remember thinking how dum it was for the "brains" to let boozer "slip" to the second round...

they don't know everything....

[Newton_14]

Same sentiment here. The guaranteed contract for being a first-round pick will definitely help his family. Best wishes to him, and I hope his mother's health improves.

Same here. Great for EWill! I have missed him but wish him well in the NBA. Hope the money can somehow help his mom's situation.

If he develops a consistent jumper he will be a nightmare to defend..

[arydolphin]

And Dexter Pittman just went at #32. Texas was loaded with talent but the coaching was -- well -- not quite there this year.

--Jason "in about 15 picks, we need to start rooting for Zoub and Scheyer to not get picked at all, so they can bee free agents and pick their own situation" Evans

Watch the Knicks at picks 38 and 39, apparently they like Z.

[Jderf]

Watch the Knicks at picks 38 and 39, apparently they like Z.

Ahh... so much for that. Had my hopes up.

[SCMatt33]

Watch the Knicks at picks 38 and 39, apparently they like Z.

So they go with Rautins and Landry Fields. Neither one was projected to be picked at all by NBADraft and DraftExpress. Does that say more about the mock drafts or the Knicks? Maybe both?

[Acymetric]

Glad to see Butler get picked...I hated seeing him get hurt, I'll be pulling for him in the NBA.

[MisterRoddy]

Da'Sean Butler taken by my Miami Heat :)

Congrats, Kid.

[CampbellBlueDevil]

It seems like if a player faced Duke... they choose the highlight of them against Duke

[SCMatt33]

It seems like if a player faced Duke... they choose the highlight of them against Duke

That's cause the Duke game is always on TV! Also I don't remember seeing any Udoh highlights from the Elite 8. At least not in the first minute afterward. I remember expecting it but not seeing it.

[Newton_14]

Da'Sean Butler taken by my Miami Heat :)

Congrats, Kid.

Your team is getting a heckuva player in Butler. Very glad to see him get drafted as well. I hope he can have complete recovery from the injury. He seems like a great kid and he can have a long NBA career if healthy.

I wish him well!

[arydolphin]

Nevermind, the Knicks took Andy Rautins (Syracuse) and Landry Fields (Stanford).

Gani Lawal goes in the middle of the second round to Phoenix.

[MisterRoddy]

Your team is getting a heckuva player in Butler. Very glad to see him get drafted as well. I hope he can have complete recovery from the injury. He seems like a great kid and he can have a long NBA career if healthy.

I wish him well!

Thanks, I think Da'Sean could definitely find a niche in our system backing up Dwyane or, god forbid, Lebron. :D (ok, maybe not Lebron)

[superdave]

I am going to have see where all these non-lotto picks settled out. So many trades tonight, I cant keep track!

It seems like OKC was very active and stockpiling bigs.

[SCMatt33]

So many big men. No Zoubek. Starting to worry. I wanna hear his name so badly.

[Eternal Outlaw]

I think the Knicks may take him at the end of the 2nd round...

Did they grab another pick or do you mean as a FA?

As a Knicks fan I hope they grab him somehow.

[SCMatt33]

Do they have another pick. Is is one of those unofficial trades or something?

[DevilHorns]

So many big men. No Zoubek. Starting to worry. I wanna hear his name so badly.

Outside of the Knicks, was there any other team really high on Z?

[mph]

Willie Warren and the Clippers seem like a good fit.

[SCMatt33]

Running out of picks. argh!!!

[FireOgilvie]

Ryan Reid... seriously?

[Duvall]

Ryan Reid... seriously?

Is that a joke? Some kind of fraternity prank?

[SCMatt33]

Down to 2 picks, and both teams have already taken big men.

[rotogod00]

still got a couple to go, but when's the last time duke hasn't had a player drafted?

[arydolphin]

FSU has multiple players drafted, and Duke has zero players drafted. I'm not totally surprised that Zoubek didn't get drafted, but I thought Scheyer would go someplace in the second round.

[Aditya]

still got a couple to go, but when's the last time duke hasn't had a player drafted?

Maybe the year DeMarcus Nelson left. I don't think anybody else left that year

[rotogod00]

FSU has multiple players drafted, and Duke has zero players drafted. I'm not totally surprised that Zoubek didn't get drafted, but I thought Scheyer would go someplace in the second round.

but who's got the banner hangin' from the rafters

[rotogod00]

with one pick to go, zoubek is 3rd best player available according to chad ford

[Exiled_Devil]

still got a couple to go, but when's the last time duke hasn't had a player drafted?

When was the last time the National Champions didn't have someone drafted?

[Eternal Outlaw]

When was the last time the National Champions didn't have someone drafted?

Florida when all their main guys stayed?

[rotogod00]

When was the last time the National Champions didn't have someone drafted?

a better question indeed

[SCMatt33]

with one pick to go, zoubek is 3rd best player available according to chad ford

He was the "best center available" when the last 4 or 5 C's were drafted. hasn't helped so far.

[rotogod00]

57 by the pacers

[DevilHorns]

Reid went 57th to Indiana... that and Ryan Hayward at #9, perhaps the worst draft picking in NBA history

[Kedsy]

57 by the pacers

Saw that after I made my post, which I have since deleted.

[FireOgilvie]

I'm not surprised that neither Zoubek or Scheyer was drafted. Scheyer could end up making a lot more money in Israel than the NBA. Zoubek could be picked up by someone after the draft. The problem is that Zoubek and Scheyer are known players with known limitations (which we've all gone over a million times)... NBA teams love picking up unknown athletic Europeans with high potential in the 2nd round. Low risk, high reward.

[rotogod00]

good nite everyone is right. kinda surprised jon wasn't picked. guess the lack of athleticism really hurt him

[DukieBoy]

Reid went 57th to Indiana... that and Ryan Hayward at #9, perhaps the worst draft picking in NBA history

I think you meant Gordon, but that wasn't a bad pick at all.

I'm somewhat surprised that Scheyer and Z didn't get drafted. Z has his very obvious limitations.

I'm guessing Jon missing workouts with mono hurt him lots

[theAlaskanBear]

One thing I really enjoyed about the NBA draft is that whenever an ACC player was selected, ESPN used footage from Duke games :D

[DevilHorns]

I think you meant Gordon, but that wasn't a bad pick at all.

I'm somewhat surprised that Scheyer and Z didn't get drafted. Z has his very obvious limitations.

I'm guessing Jon missing workouts with mono hurt him lots

I take back what I said. For some reason I thought I saw on the ESPN ticker that Gordon Hayward went to Indiana at #9. Nevermind, it was Utah. I think Utah took him to high... I think he could have went anywhere from 15-25 if they traded down. Oh well.

Im suprised Z didnt get drafted as well... but maybe he gets scooped up by a team in the next few days, who knows.

[MisterRoddy]

I take back what I said. For some reason I thought I saw on the ESPN ticker that Gordon Hayward went to Indiana at #9. Nevermind, it was Utah. I think Utah took him to high... I think he could have went anywhere from 15-25 if they traded down. Oh well.

Im suprised Z didnt get drafted as well... but maybe he gets scooped up by a team in the next few days, who knows.

I am hearing that Zoubs has a very good shot to be added to the Knick's summer league roster. They really like him.

[throatybeard]

I'd like for our seniors to get a shot, but the way I choose to look at this is that Krzyzewski won a title with no NBA draft picks, except maybe Singler next year. With one NBA draft pick? That's crazy.

[DevilHorns]

I'd like for our seniors to get a shot, but the way I choose to look at this is that Krzyzewski won a title with no NBA draft picks, except maybe Singler next year. With one NBA draft pick? That's crazy.

Don't forget about Nolan. He's definitely at the worst a second-rounder next year.

[Duvall]

Okay, so Ryan Reid was drafted - in the NBA draft, no less. Why would a team waste a draft pick, even a second round draft pick, on a mediocre rebounder and sub-mediocre scorer with average athleticism and below-average size?

I'm actually angry about this. I almost want to drive to Indianapolis, find someone in the Pacers' front office and punch them in the face for disrespecting the game with this pick.

[Skitzle]

Florida when all their main guys stayed?

Yeap. They also went back 2 back... I like the trend.

[MarkD83]

It seems like if a player faced Duke... they choose the highlight of them against Duke

That because you always pick the highlight vs the National Champion!!

[rotogod00]

Don't forget about Nolan. He's definitely at the worst a second-rounder next year.

and MP2. likely a lottery pick next year.

[tommy]

Okay, so Ryan Reid was drafted - in the NBA draft, no less. Why would a team waste a draft pick, even a second round draft pick, on a mediocre rebounder and sub-mediocre scorer with average athleticism and below-average size?

I'm actually angry about this. I almost want to drive to Indianapolis, find someone in the Pacers' front office and punch them in the face for disrespecting the game with this pick.


OK. So long as you don't overreact.

[MisterRoddy]

and MP2. likely a lottery pick next year.

I actually think Mason will need another year to refine his offensive skillset to be a lottery pick. Also, he will have to improve his defensive skills. I hope he proves me wrong and is a sure-fire lottery pick but if he has a good season next year, it doesn't necessarily mean he's a lottery pick.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

Is that a joke? Some kind of fraternity prank?

Yes, if someone hands you a Smirnoff Ice, you have to either get down on one knee and chug it or waste an NBA Draft pick on marginal talent.

[Saratoga2]

If you were to look at the entire year, Scheyer, Singler, Smith and Zoubek all had games and or periods when they lead the team. Singler came on as he season progressed , while Scheyer was leading things early and Smith had really great games here and there and was generally solid. Zoubek had his run near the end of the season and on through the playoffs. Would either Singeler or Smith been chosen in the first round this year. Maybe, but hardly a sure thing. Therefore, we were the national champion and beat teams all along that had first round picks. Good team play? Good coaching, better players than the scouts believe? All of the above?

Meanwhile, Kentucky got the most first rounders but were beaten by a team we were able to close out in the tournament. I'd rather crow about Duke's accomplishments.

[DoubleDuke Dad]

So why was Calipari at the draft? I didn't see any other coaches there. It seems to me that he was looking for and unfortunately got free advertising from ESPN for his recruiting tactics. Basically he was given a national platform to say to the top high school prospects look at how successful you can be if you come to Kentucky. You can come for one year and be a lottery pick. Just some more sleaze from Calipari.

[rotogod00]

I actually think Mason will need another year to refine his offensive skillset to be a lottery pick. Also, he will have to improve his defensive skills. I hope he proves me wrong and is a sure-fire lottery pick but if he has a good season next year, it doesn't necessarily mean he's a lottery pick.

according to the "experts", would have likely been just outside the lottery if he had declared this year.

[RoyalBlue08]

So why was Calipari at the draft? I didn't see any other coaches there. It seems to me that he was looking for and unfortunately got free advertising from ESPN for his recruiting tactics. Basically he was given a national platform to say to the top high school prospects look at how successful you can be if you come to Kentucky. You can come for one year and be a lottery pick. Just some more sleaze from Calipari.

One of my favorite lines of the night is when Cal called it a "great night for the University of Kentucky". And no one laughed. So now it is a great night for your university if you recruit a bunch of kids to come play basketball for you for one year, take one semester of classes, and then go to the NBA. They didn't even win anything! A great night for Wall, Bledsoe, Cousins, et al. yes. A great night for the University of Kentucky? Please explain further Cal.

[dukelifer]

So why was Calipari at the draft? I didn't see any other coaches there. It seems to me that he was looking for and unfortunately got free advertising from ESPN for his recruiting tactics. Basically he was given a national platform to say to the top high school prospects look at how successful you can be if you come to Kentucky. You can come for one year and be a lottery pick. Just some more sleaze from Calipari.

A few other coaches were there, yesterday. John Thompson was in the audience. I am sure there were others. Roy was there when Hansbrough and crew were drafted. Cal has issues but this is not one of them.

See below for Roy sighting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv4bpWyq9Us

[MisterRoddy]

according to the "experts", would have likely been just outside the lottery if he had declared this year.

Where'd you see that?

Even so, Mason has a lot of upside and I think it'd be better for Mason to stay until his Junior year to improve, refine, and polish his overall skill set, not to mention maybe developing a low post game. I'm not saying it's out of the realm of possibility that he goes lottery next year (there's actually a good chance), I'm just saying it'd be better suited for him to stay and develop under K for at least 3 years, imo

[rotogod00]

Where'd you see that?

Even so, Mason has a lot of upside and I think it'd be better for Mason to stay until his Junior year to improve, refine, and polish his overall skill set, not to mention maybe developing a low post game. I'm not saying it's out of the realm of possibility that he goes lottery next year (there's actually a good chance), I'm just saying it'd be better suited for him to stay and develop under K for at least 3 years, imo

right before the official deadline to declare draft intentions, he peaked on chad ford's big board at around 20.

it'd be better suited for MOST kids to stay and develop in college rather than go pro early. but if you're projected to go top 10, the $ usually proves too difficult to pass up.

[MisterRoddy]

right before the official deadline to declare draft intentions, he peaked on chad ford's big board at around 20.

it'd be better suited for MOST kids to stay and develop in college rather than go pro early. but if you're projected to go top 10, the $ usually proves too difficult to pass up.

Well, wouldn't the opportunity of a three-peat be as difficult to pass up? :)

Mason comes from a good family in which he really doesn't need the money right away, unlike many players. Also, remember that a lot of players declared early this year because of the expected lockout, so it isn't likely that you'll see something similar next year. That combined with the opportunity to develop even more, AND play with his two brothers, makes me believe Mason will be back for his junior year.

[rotogod00]

Well, wouldn't the opportunity of a three-peat be as difficult to pass up? :)

Mason comes from a good family in which he really doesn't need the money right away, unlike many players. Also, remember that a lot of players declared early this year because of the expected lockout, so it isn't likely that you'll see something similar next year. That combined with the opportunity to develop even more, AND play with his two brothers, makes me believe Mason will be back for his junior year.

agree with you that the biggest lure to return might be to play with his both his brothers (if that comes to fruition)

[Billy Dat]

Lots of good branches in this discussion to respond to.

Scheyer and Z:
It is better that they didn't get drafted, as has been pointed out before. Only 1st round guys get guaranteed money so everyone else is better off trying to find their best possible shot at making the league through mutual agreement with the various interested teams. Maybe Chris Carrawell could have found a team he could stick with but was forced to try and make the Spurs when they drafted him in round 2. By the time he failed that tryout, he was done for that year. To varying degrees, Shav and Demarcus have had success going the undrafted route.

No Draft picks on a title team:
As others have pointed out, there were draft picks on this title team, just not this year. I don't think any Duke players were picked in the 1991 NBA draft, right?

Cal and the Draft Green room:
This was a stroke of genius. I must hand it to Cal, the guy has chosen his "brand" and is really working it. For the elite prospect, the NBA is the end game. They want to be at that table in the Theater at Madison Square Garden with Cal. Based on past history, they know if there is anything shady going on with recruiting, they personally aren't going to pay the price. Forget K's American Express ads, Cal's mugging and constant interviewing in the green room were the best recruiting ad anyone could have dreamed up. He may be sleazy, but the guy is a maestro.

Mason:
Once he came back from injury and was a rotation player (early Feb?), he hit everyone's scouting radar and was projected as a first round lock. Barring injury or a disaster of a sophomore year, he's probably gone after next year. Draft Express' 2011 draft forecast has Kyrie going 9, Mason going 10, Kyle going 18 and Nolan going 26. Maybe K will be the Don of the Green Room next year?

[MisterRoddy]

Mason:
Once he came back from injury and was a rotation player (early Feb?), he hit everyone's scouting radar and was projected as a first round lock. Barring injury or a disaster of a sophomore year, he's probably gone after next year. Draft Express' 2011 draft forecast has Kyrie going 9, Mason going 10, Kyle going 18 and Nolan going 26. Maybe K will be the Don of the Green Room next year?

I will have to respectfully disagree, reasons posted in my previous posts.

[rotogod00]

Lots of good branches in this discussion to respond to.

Scheyer and Z:
It is better that they didn't get drafted, as has been pointed out before. Only 1st round guys get guaranteed money so everyone else is better off trying to find their best possible shot at making the league through mutual agreement with the various interested teams. Maybe Chris Carrawell could have found a team he could stick with but was forced to try and make the Spurs when they drafted him in round 2. By the time he failed that tryout, he was done for that year. To varying degrees, Shav and Demarcus have had success going the undrafted route.

No Draft picks on a title team:
As others have pointed out, there were draft picks on this title team, just not this year. I don't think any Duke players were picked in the 1991 NBA draft, right?

Cal and the Draft Green room:
This was a stroke of genius. I must hand it to Cal, the guy has chosen his "brand" and is really working it. For the elite prospect, the NBA is the end game. They want to be at that table in the Theater at Madison Square Garden with Cal. Based on past history, they know if there is anything shady going on with recruiting, they personally aren't going to pay the price. Forget K's American Express ads, Cal's mugging and constant interviewing in the green room were the best recruiting ad anyone could have dreamed up. He may be sleazy, but the guy is a maestro.

Mason:
Once he came back from injury and was a rotation player (early Feb?), he hit everyone's scouting radar and was projected as a first round lock. Barring injury or a disaster of a sophomore year, he's probably gone after next year. Draft Express' 2011 draft forecast has Kyrie going 9, Mason going 10, Kyle going 18 and Nolan going 26. Maybe K will be the Don of the Green Room next year?


you don't think the opportunity to play with both his brothers (if MP3 signs on the dotted line) would be enough for him to wait another year?

[Big Pappa]

Where'd you see that?


As he already said, Ford had him as high as 20. Here are a few for 2011:

Draft Express has him 10th - http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2011/

NBA Draft Depot has him 10th - http://www.nbadraftdepot.com/2010/03/2011-nba-mock-draft.html

Hoops World top 10 - http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16220



Well, wouldn't the opportunity of a three-peat be as difficult to pass up? :)


Let's get two before we start talking about 3.

[MisterRoddy]

As he already said, Ford had him as high as 20. Here are a few for 2011:

Draft Express has him 10th - http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2011/

NBA Draft Depot has him 10th - http://www.nbadraftdepot.com/2010/03/2011-nba-mock-draft.html

Hoops World top 10 - http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16220

Thanks for the links, but I had already seen some of the 2011 Mock Drafts, and while mock drafts at this point in time are highly unreliable, there is a good chance that Mason does go lottery. I just think it'd be better served for him to stay and I feel that will ultimately be his decision.




Let's get two before we start talking about 3.

I thought the smiley face served as a bit of a disclaimer, showing you guys that I wasn't really being all that serious, guess not.

[NSDukeFan]

I'll repost this from the other thread:
Calipari was just interviewed on the NBA Draft telecast, and he called today "the biggest day in the history of Kentucky basketball" because of all of the players getting drafted in the first round, including UK's first #1 overall pick. I'm guessing all of those national championships that UK won in the past weren't as important as where guys get drafted to the NBA in Calipari's world!
I was also amazed when I heard him say that. Seriously? Those championships don't mean as much as two kids who didn't even go to class after their only basketball season getting drafted? Nice priorities. If that was the highlight of the UK program, they don't have the tradition that I thought.

Ryan Reid... seriously?


Is that a joke? Some kind of fraternity prank?

I was shocked that Ryan Reid got picked and on the flip-side shocked at how low Alabi got picked.

[Devilsfan]

Imagine if Coach K had coached five first round picks. They would win everything. Wait, he sort of had that on his USA team. They came home with the Gold. That coach from ky was on the tube like a super star coach. What did his team win last year?

[Billy Dat]

RE: Mason

With any NBA prospect, in the 1 and done era, I feel like being a projected lottery pick usually leads to said player leaving school. However, if that were always true, then Mason probably would have tested the waters and even considered leaving after this past year. He didn't, so my theory is just a theory.

But, I think fans tend to underestimate the lure of money and the NBA. Sure, the Plumlees may not be as poor as some other players' families who fit the definition of "hardship", but I don't think Mason has a trust fund. Plus, he now has a ring. As for playing with his 3 brothers...yeah, it's a great story...but so is $5MM - $10MM! If you just finished your second year of college, and someone was ready to write you a check for that much money, you'd already played with your older brother for 2 years, you had a championship ring...I think you'd look forward to sitting with your brothers around the Thanksgiving table and handing them each a $10,000 watch as you all guffawed at your good fortune....but that's just me.

[tallguy]

flip-side shocked at how low Alabi got picked

Medical issue (Hep B according to draft express) knocked him down

[NSDukeFan]

Medical issue (Hep B according to draft express) knocked him down

Thanks, I hadn't heard anything about that and knew that he (Alabi) had earlier been projected as a potential lottery pick.

[MisterRoddy]

RE: Mason

With any NBA prospect, in the 1 and done era, I feel like being a projected lottery pick usually leads to said player leaving school. However, if that were always true, then Mason probably would have tested the waters and even considered leaving after this past year. He didn't, so my theory is just a theory.

But, I think fans tend to underestimate the lure of money and the NBA. Sure, the Plumlees may not be as poor as some other players' families who fit the definition of "hardship", but I don't think Mason has a trust fund. Plus, he now has a ring. As for playing with his 3 brothers...yeah, it's a great story...but so is $5MM - $10MM! If you just finished your second year of college, and someone was ready to write you a check for that much money, you'd already played with your older brother for 2 years, you had a championship ring...I think you'd look forward to sitting with your brothers around the Thanksgiving table and handing them each a $10,000 watch as you all guffawed at your good fortune....but that's just me.

While, yes, the lure of money is very enticing, I think you guys are overrating the likeliness of players leaving for the NBA because of the mass exodus last year due to the possibility of a lockout. It felt like everybody projected in the draft was declaring. I stand by my argument thinking he will stay for his JR year.

[Billy Dat]

While, yes, the lure of money is very enticing, I think you guys are overrating the likeliness of players leaving for the NBA because of the mass exodus last year due to the possibility of a lockout. It felt like everybody projected in the draft was declaring. I stand by my argument thinking he will stay for his JR year.

It could be that very same lockout that keeps him at Duke. I think we both agree that we WANT him to stay, of that there is no question. Naturally, I also want him to play so well that leaving is a serious consideration.

[MisterRoddy]

It could be that very same lockout that keeps him at Duke.
Exactly my point. We could see the exact opposite of what happened last year should there be a serious possibility of a lockout, which it looks like its heading in that direction.


I think we both agree that we WANT him to stay, of that there is no question. Naturally, I also want him to play so well that leaving is a serious consideration.

I do also, but just because he plays well enough to be considered for a lottery spot does not mean that he's likely to leave early. There are many, many other factors that go into making that type of a decision (which I named earlier).

[Billy Dat]

I think history works against projected lottery picks coming back. I just scanned the last 6 drafts and could only count a handful of guys who came back despite being projected as a lottery pick. In most of those cases, like Ed Davis, the player would have been better off leaving the year before strictly in terms of draft position. Rare is the player who bucks that trend.

[MisterRoddy]

I think history works against projected lottery picks coming back. I just scanned the last 6 drafts and could only count a handful of guys who came back despite being projected as a lottery pick. In most of those cases, like Ed Davis, the player would have been better off leaving the year before strictly in terms of draft position. Rare is the player who bucks that trend.

How many of those drafts did you compare to the mock drafts right after the last draft ended? We just don't know where Mason will end up at the end of the year. While, yes, there's a good share of mocks that have him going high, there are also a few that don't have him listed at all, not expecting him to come out early.

Even so, there are just too many variables to factor in a decision to expect him to leave after his sophomore year at this stage (especially before he has even started his Sophmore year.

[DevilHorns]

Medical issue (Hep B according to draft express) knocked him down


Thanks, I hadn't heard anything about that and knew that he (Alabi) had earlier been projected as a potential lottery pick.

That is a ridiculous breach of privacy and a HIPAA violation. Alabi should sue draft express if that is truly the case.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

That is a ridiculous breach of privacy and a HIPAA violation. Alabi should sue draft express if that is truly the case.

Wonder if he signed a waiver. Do they make players do that when they enter the draft so that teams will have full disclosure of illnesses or injuries? That would make it less grievous and not a HIPAA violation. But perhaps still uncool from a privacy standpoint.

[greybeard]

I think Cousins was THE pick in this draft. I think that the so-called rap against him is nuts. The guy displayed more skills for a big guy than anyone I've seen in years, and they are economical, non-injury risking skills to beat. So what if he has a lttle fat? The guy is quick as a cat around the rim in either direction and makes terrific and poised decisions. He makes his shots, which are not all dunks. Is he coachable? Come on, he did everything extraordinarily well except the South Beach. He would have been my 1-1, not Wall, who will in all likelihood get injured within his first 4 years aka Paul and Williams and then have trouble in each ensuing year.

Absent familial money issues, I'd like to think that players who get to go to Duke and play for K would chose to stay 4 years. However, I don't have anything near a million bucks, can't even comprehend what that means, and so my views should be discounted accordingly. On the other hand, having lived most of mine, I very much get that you only have one life to live. Given that, I'd like to think that I'd opt to maximize the educational opportunities that playing for K and going to Duke present; after all, as ole W.C. observed, "if you wing it right, once is enough."

In my opinion, Miles and Mason should stay all four years, and will, unless the college part gets really old for either of them.

[Jderf]

Imagine if Coach K had coached five first round picks. They would win everything. Wait, he sort of had that on his USA team. They came home with the Gold. That coach from ky was on the tube like a super star coach. What did his team win last year?

The SEC.

[Jderf]

I think Cousins was THE pick in this draft. I think that the so-called rap against him is nuts. The guy displayed more skills for a big guy than anyone I've seen in years, and they are economical, non-injury risking skills to beat. So what if he has a lttle fat? The guy is quick as a cat around the rim in either direction and makes terrific and poised decisions. He makes his shots, which are not all dunks. Is he coachable? Come on, he did everything extraordinarily well except the South Beach. He would have been my 1-1, not Wall, who will in all likelihood get injured within his first 4 years aka Paul and Williams and then have trouble in each ensuing year.

Could not agree more. I could not believe he dropped to 5th. He's the most NBA-ready big man that we've seen in many, many years. So he's not in perfect shape; do I even need to list all the NBA big men that are a little chubs? All I know is I would not have passed on him.

[CatfanMike]

I certainly don't minimize Coach K's success, but to suggest that this is evidence of the contrast in how Coach K operates ito how Coach Cal operates is absurd. Do you really believe that Coach K eschews first round talent? He recruited Wall and Bledsoe, albeit unsuccessfully. Do you recall 1999, when Duke had four first-rounders, but failed to win the title? And the reason Duke's players have stayed in school is either because a) they come from privilege, or b) they weren't lottery picks to begin with. This is precisely the kind of smugness that non-Duke fans find annoying.

[Duvall]

The SEC.

Okay, what *significant* wins did Kentucky have last year?

[Jderf]

I certainly don't minimize Coach K's success, but to suggest that this is evidence of the contrast in how Coach K operates ito how Coach Cal operates is absurd. Do you really believe that Coach K eschews first round talent? He recruited Wall and Bledsoe, albeit unsuccessfully. Do you recall 1999, when Duke had four first-rounders, but failed to win the title? And the reason Duke's players have stayed in school is either because a) they come from privilege, or b) they weren't lottery picks to begin with. This is precisely the kind of smugness that non-Duke fans find annoying.

To be honest, I agree with parts of what you say. I still don't understand the vitriolic foaming-at-the-mouth reaction many on this board seem to have at the slightest mention of Kentucky and Calipari. I don't see anything fundamentally different between how Calipari recruits and anyone else, except in levels of success. Everybody is just going after the best players they can get. (Of course, there are rumors of Calipari and underhanded dealings, but as of right now, those are still just rumors - though remarkably persistent ones)

One difference (though not a fundamental one) is in how Calipari markets himself. He feeds off of the media-created image of Kentucky as the "new home" of the one-and-done, and uses that to his advantage as a sort of free advertising. I don't see anything wrong with that, but it is different from how most other coaches operate. That is the difference between Duke 99 and KY 2010. Coach K did not plan on all of those players leaving early. He did not recruit them all assuming they would leave without graduating.

Personally, I don't like it. But that's just my personal taste. I like being able to watch the players on my team grow and improve over the span of their career, which makes it all the more special for me when they do something amazing. I don't think I'd get the same experience as a Kentucky fan. But there is nothing wrong with the one-and-done players, that's just not my style. I don't see how that comes from smugness.

[Jderf]

Okay, what *significant* wins did Kentucky have last year?

Haha. Nice move. I concede.

[IBleedBlue]

Gary Parrish thinks three players from Duke will go in first round including two in the lottery..
check it out at
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/13566463/top-30-prospects-excited-about-2011-nba-draft-you-shouldnt-be?tag=coverlist;coverlist_photo

[Duvall]

I certainly don't minimize Coach K's success, but to suggest that this is evidence of the contrast in how Coach K operates ito how Coach Cal operates is absurd. Do you really believe that Coach K eschews first round talent? He recruited Wall and Bledsoe, albeit unsuccessfully.

Duke recruited Wall, but never offered Bledsoe a scholarship because they knew Bledsoe wasn't capable of making the grade at Duke. But then, Bledsoe wasn't capable of succeeding academically at Kentucky, either - Calipari just didn't care.

[CatfanMike]

For the record, Cal did not expect Orton and Bledsoe to be "one and dones."

The smugness is perceived when it is suggested that Coach K wouldn't stoop to recruiting one and dones, as though Duke is somehow above such things.

It's a funny thing, I have never had any great animosity toward other successul programs (like Arkansas when they first entered the SEC, or UConn, or even Kansas); but Duke and UNC bring out animosity in me precisely because of the elitist way the programs are portrayed. In other words, it's not the success that bothers me as much as the self-congratulatory attitude.

And contrary to the perception, John Wall in particular was a class act in just about every way in his one year at UK (given his background, that's pretty impressive) and DeMarcus Cousins was a charismatic player who was fun to follow. The idea that we don't get to know our players is way overplayed.

[Duvall]

To be honest, I agree with parts of what you say. I still don't understand the vitriolic foaming-at-the-mouth reaction many on this board seem to have at the slightest mention of Kentucky and Calipari. I don't see anything fundamentally different between how Calipari recruits and anyone else, except in levels of success.

There are differences. Not so much in terms of going after elite talent, but one of Calipari's specialties has been finding ways to get players eligible that most other schools couldn't recruit (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/29/sports/ncaabasketball/29memphis.html). Players like Eric Bledsoe (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5231161), like Derrick Rose (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/21/sports/ncaabasketball/21memphis.html), like the five players Calipari recruited through Laurinburg Institute, a diploma mill from which the NCAA now refuses to accept transcripts (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/NCAA/Media+and+Events/Press+Room/News+Release+Archive/2009/Announcements/NCAA+Announces+Decision+Regarding+Review+of+Laurin burg+Institute).

Cal's just resourceful like that.

But I agree that most coaches go after the best players available. Some coaches just have a different view of who they consider available.

[Newton_14]

And contrary to the perception, John Wall in particular was a class act in just about every way in his one year at UK (given his background, that's pretty impressive)

I agree with you on this part. I have defended Wall on this board several times before. Wall is a much better kid than most give him credit for. The thing about going into the vacant house with his girl was made out to be "armed robbery like" when that could not be further from the truth. I was glad to see Wall take his academic work seriously, finish both semesters, and acheive good grades. Good for him and I would have had no issue at all with him being a Duke Blue Devil.

You are very wrong though on Bledsoe. Duke in no way "lost" Bledsoe to UK. He was given a look and once the academic side was seen, Duke walked away having never offered the kid. Those are the facts.

The thing about Cal though, is very much his tactics. Duvall documented them well. The WWW connections, the Diploma Mills, and the magical improvements in SAT scores for kids that could not get into places like Georgia but suddenly can at Memphis, all add up to shadiness that can't realistically be defended. He is bad for College Basketball and his day will come. It is widely known too, that Cal walked away from the NC State job he had verbally accepted when he learned the ACC standards would prevent him from getting the kids he normally went after.

I do also agree that not all "One and Done" kids are the same and should not be labeled as bad unless the shoe fits. We all know the shoe does not fit all of these kids either. The NBA rule has created this mess and until they change the rule we will always have these 1 semester pit stops.

[MisterRoddy]

Here is a list of undrafted players and their expected Summer League teams (including Jon, Brian, and Lance).

http://www.ridiculousupside.com/2010/6/25/1536171/nba-draft-2010-is-it-time-to

[Channing]

For the record, Cal did not expect Orton and Bledsoe to be "one and dones."

The smugness is perceived when it is suggested that Coach K wouldn't stoop to recruiting one and dones, as though Duke is somehow above such things.



I'm not sure where the perception that Duke won't recruit one and dones comes from. Just a sampling off the top of my head of the alst few years of players Duke recruited who were (or were projected to possibly be) one and dones:

Wall, Rivers, Barnes, Q. Miller, McRoberts, Monroe, Boynton, B. Wright, Love, Irving.

Duke was successful with some and failed on some (and hopefully will be successful on those still in high school. however, the fact remains that K has not backed off a recruit because they were one and done potentials.

[Jderf]

For the record, Cal did not expect Orton and Bledsoe to be "one and dones."

The smugness is perceived when it is suggested that Coach K wouldn't stoop to recruiting one and dones, as though Duke is somehow above such things.

It's a funny thing, I have never had any great animosity toward other successul programs (like Arkansas when they first entered the SEC, or UConn, or even Kansas); but Duke and UNC bring out animosity in me precisely because of the elitist way the programs are portrayed. In other words, it's not the success that bothers me as much as the self-congratulatory attitude.

And contrary to the perception, John Wall in particular was a class act in just about every way in his one year at UK (given his background, that's pretty impressive) and DeMarcus Cousins was a charismatic player who was fun to follow. The idea that we don't get to know our players is way overplayed.

You need to be careful with categorical statements like this. There are a lot of varied viewpoints on the board. I never thought that Duke was "above such things" or that it would even be desirable to be "above such things." I have nothing against Wall or Cousins, who are fantastic basketball players. I think the problem with the perceived smugness is that the "elitist portrayal" of Duke basketball is actually perpetuated just as much by the other side as by ours. Remember that it was you who suggested that I feel "above such things," not me.

In fact, there are many people on the board who you could label the "smug police," who actively go out of their way to call out people for being "smug" on rare occasions. I also think it's hilarious you think the UNC fanbase is elitist, since the tarheels on the board seem to try to use that against us all the time.

In reality, I don't even think a fanbase can be "elitist" or "non-elitist." Nobody really knows enough of the fans to make blanket statements about them as a group. All people have to go on are isolated incidents and extremely subjective feelings, which are open to thousands of interpretations. (Except in rare cases like Maryland, where their fanbase is actually a strait-up public menace, although there are even many Maryland fans who hate that.)

Also, your right. Few expected Bledsoe to leave after a year. But I thought Orton wasn't even one of Cal's recruits. Is that right?

[COYS]

I'm not sure where the perception that Duke won't recruit one and dones comes from. Just a sampling off the top of my head of the alst few years of players Duke recruited who were (or were projected to possibly be) one and dones:

Wall, Rivers, Barnes, Q. Miller, McRoberts, Monroe, Boynton, B. Wright, Love, Irving.

Duke was successful with some and failed on some (and hopefully will be successful on those still in high school. however, the fact remains that K has not backed off a recruit because they were one and done potentials.

Throw Shaun Livingston into the mix, too, as well Deng . . . although I guess these guys technically predate the NBA's 1 year rule.

[CatfanMike]

I'll agree that it's not fair to categorize all Duke fans as elitist. However, when this comment is on the DBR front page:

"Here’s one measure of the different approaches at Duke and Kentucky: UK can have five first round draft picks and not get out of the Elite Eight; Duke has none and wins the national title. Coincidence? You decide!"

My response here..."Really? Really?" Yes, UK had five first round picks, but only one veteran in that mix. In my mind, this UK team acually overachieved given the experience level.

To say that this year's results proves anything about differing "approaches" is a stretch. The moralizing that goes on regarding Calipari is a little disingenuous, given the whole Maggette/Piggie issue in which I see no difference between that eligibility scenario and the Derrick Rose issue.

Duke has had enormous talent in previous years when they have failed to even reach the elite 8. Certainly, I'll agree that this year's tournament was perhaps Coach K's greatest coaching job, and I can objectively admit that Coach K may be the great college coach ever (not as many titles as Wooden, but also no Sam Gilbert--that we know of--and a much more competitive era).

[CatfanMike]

And regarding Orton, you're right. He was a Gillispie commit, though Calipari convinced him to stay after we (thankfully) parted ways with Billy Clyde.

[NSDukeFan]

I'll agree that it's not fair to categorize all Duke fans as elitist. However, when this comment is on the DBR front page:

"Here’s one measure of the different approaches at Duke and Kentucky: UK can have five first round draft picks and not get out of the Elite Eight; Duke has none and wins the national title. Coincidence? You decide!"

My response here..."Really? Really?" Yes, UK had five first round picks, but only one veteran in that mix. In my mind, this UK team acually overachieved given the experience level.

To say that this year's results proves anything about differing "approaches" is a stretch. The moralizing that goes on regarding Calipari is a little disingenuous, given the whole Maggette/Piggie issue in which I see no difference between that eligibility scenario and the Derrick Rose issue.

Duke has had enormous talent in previous years when they have failed to even reach the elite 8. Certainly, I'll agree that this year's tournament was perhaps Coach K's greatest coaching job, and I can objectively admit that Coach K may be the great college coach ever (not as many titles as Wooden, but also no Sam Gilbert--that we know of--and a much more competitive era).

I think your point would have more validity if Calipari hadn't said a in the last couple of days that getting 5 players drafted (4 one and dones) in the first round is the greatest event in UK basketball history. That appears to me to be a very different approach than that of Duke, where the accomplishments of the team seem to trump recruiting and individual successes.

[cspan37421]

To say that this year's results proves anything about differing "approaches" is a stretch. The moralizing that goes on regarding Calipari is a little disingenuous, given the whole Maggette/Piggie issue in which I see no difference between that eligibility scenario and the Derrick Rose issue.



Perhaps you don't see a difference because you haven't looked beyond the surface.

Did Maggette cheat his way into being admitted to Duke? No. Did Duke have anything to do with what he is said to have done in HS? No. [I don't know if anyone from Memphis was involved with Rose ... but it was Rose's bogus test score that made him eligible, no?]

Our alumnus Jay Bilas would agree with you on one thing though, the NCAA doesn't handle eligibility very well. Both players had been declared eligible by the NCAA before playing a minute for their respective schools.

Others know the Maggette situation better than I do ... but from what little I know, Duke was not at fault, and found to not be at fault. Perhaps someone can dig up a link to the investigation report PDF?

[CatfanMike]

Good point on Coach Cal's comment regarding the NBA draft and team success. I was actually bothered by some more extended comments in which he basically said given the choice between a national title and have five players taken the first round, he'd choose the latter. While Coach Cal has proven to be very skilled in PR while UK's coach, that comment will stick in the craw of a lot of UK fans (including me) until he actually wins a title.

I'll pop out for now, but I actually do enjoy the DBR board from time to time. Maybe UK and Duke will get to play sometime soon--I'd love to see a home and home. The last time UK and Duke played in Rupp was 1980 (in the NCAA tournament)--when's the last time UK played at Cameron? Hard to believe that UK and Duke haven't played at all since the 01-02 season, if I remember correctly.

[Cockabeau]

Also worth pointing out that Samardo Samuels went undrafted. It goes to show you that recruiting is not an exact science. Roy wanted both Roe and Samuels badly.IMO, he dodged a bullet on both players.

[Olympic Fan]

Yes, UK had five first round picks, but only one veteran in that mix. In my mind, this UK team acually overachieved given the experience level.


I certainly agree that many Kentucky haters have mischaracterized this past season as a failure and as a disappointment.

Calipari inherited a 22-14 NIT team that lost its best player (second team AA Jodie Meeks) and proceded to finish 35-3 and earn a No. 1 seed in the NCAA Tournament. Yeah, they lost in the Elite Eight -- but we've certainly seen that the one-and-done nature of the tournament often claims great teams. K is the best NCAA Tournament coach since Wooden and he's had several No. 1 seeds knocked out short of the Final Four.

It's happened to Roy ... it's happened to Dean ... and this year it happened to Calipari and Bill Self and Jim Boeheim.

To characterize Kentucky's Elite Eight exit as "a failure" is as silly as Calipari calling draft night the greatest night in Kentucky basketball history.

BUT -- and here's where I think Kerntucky's fans are fooling themselves -- is to excuse that loss on the basis of starting three freshmen.

Yeah, inexperience like that is very hard to overcome -- BUT THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF CALIPARI'S PROGRAM IS THAT HE'S GOING TO HAVE A TEAM LIKE THAT EVERY YEAR.

Think about it ... he inherited a mediocre team and used a great recruiting class to revitalize it.

Isn't that exactly where he is again a year later?

Only last year at this time, he had one great veteran anchor in Patrick Patterson to build around. And (I know this is just opinion, but it's my opnion) the core of his freshman class -- Knight, Kanter and Jones -- is not as good as the core of his 2009 freshmen -- Wall, Cousins and Bledsoe.

So even if Kentucky wins another 30 or so games, when they flame out in the NCAA Tournament, will all the Kentucky fans write it off to inexperience -- you can't expect a freshman dominated team to win it all?

Then when this group of freshmen jumps to the NBA, Kentucky finds himself back in the same position in 2011-12 -- Gilchrist and Teague provide a great young core for another good team ... but they're one and done too.

It's a never ending cycle -- assuming he can keep it up and stay out of trouble with the NCAA. Calipari will have top teams every year, but unless something changes, he's unlikely to win any titles with an ever-changing cast of freshman-dominated teams.

Hey, if that's what the Kentucky nation wants ... more power to them.

[Jderf]

I certainly agree that many Kentucky haters have mischaracterized this past season as a failure and as a disappointment.

Calipari inherited a 22-14 NIT team that lost its best player (second team AA Jodie Meeks) and proceded to finish 35-3 and earn a No. 1 seed in the NCAA Tournament. Yeah, they lost in the Elite Eight -- but we've certainly seen that the one-and-done nature of the tournament often claims great teams. K is the best NCAA Tournament coach since Wooden and he's had several No. 1 seeds knocked out short of the Final Four.

It's happened to Roy ... it's happened to Dean ... and this year it happened to Calipari and Bill Self and Jim Boeheim.

To characterize Kentucky's Elite Eight exit as "a failure" is as silly as Calipari calling draft night the greatest night in Kentucky basketball history.

BUT -- and here's where I think Kerntucky's fans are fooling themselves -- is to excuse that loss on the basis of starting three freshmen.

Yeah, inexperience like that is very hard to overcome -- BUT THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF CALIPARI'S PROGRAM IS THAT HE'S GOING TO HAVE A TEAM LIKE THAT EVERY YEAR.

Think about it ... he inherited a mediocre team and used a great recruiting class to revitalize it.

Isn't that exactly where he is again a year later?

Only last year at this time, he had one great veteran anchor in Patrick Patterson to build around. And (I know this is just opinion, but it's my opnion) the core of his freshman class -- Knight, Kanter and Jones -- is not as good as the core of his 2009 freshmen -- Wall, Cousins and Bledsoe.

So even if Kentucky wins another 30 or so games, when they flame out in the NCAA Tournament, will all the Kentucky fans write it off to inexperience -- you can't expect a freshman dominated team to win it all?

Then when this group of freshmen jumps to the NBA, Kentucky finds himself back in the same position in 2011-12 -- Gilchrist and Teague provide a great young core for another good team ... but they're one and done too.

It's a never ending cycle -- assuming he can keep it up and stay out of trouble with the NCAA. Calipari will have top teams every year, but unless something changes, he's unlikely to win any titles with an ever-changing cast of freshman-dominated teams.

Hey, if that's what the Kentucky nation wants ... more power to them.

I think you're not going far enough in analyzing the way that Duke fan's have mischaracterized Kentucky's season last year. (Maybe this should be moved to the Kentucky thread at this point.) A lot of the people on this board want to take the elite eight loss and wave it in the air as evidence of the impossibility and futility of Calipari's "system," but I don't think that holds. Kentucky had one of the most successful seasons in the country last year. They were extremely talented, won a whole lot of games (even with a few close ones), took the SEC, and made a solid run to the elite eight. That is, as you say, truly a shocking turn around from the year before.

But people still want to portray that elite eight loss alone as if it is a vindication of old-style basketball over the slimy-greasy-sleazy new school, embodied in the flesh by Calipari. "Inexperience cannot win it all," they say. But I have bad news: a sample-size of one game is not large enough to draw that kind of conclusion. That's basic stats.

The reason they lost that game was not inexperience, it was an abysmal shooting night. Then, taking that into account, they didn't feed the ball into the post as much as they should have. Those things happen. Experience does not save you from ocasionally going cold from beyond the arc (see: Ray Allen after his huge shooting night in the NBA finals). How many NCAA tournament games has Duke lost in recent years because of abysmal shooting nights from very experienced players (D-marc, G, JJ).

Yet nobody here argued that those couple of bad games in the clutch were signs of the end of Duke basketball and everything it stands for. They actually argued against that, pointing instead towards Duke's total body of work, which was still good. Yet nobody gives Kentucky's season the same thoughtful and thorough analysis. They look at their last year as a complete failure while Duke's pre-Championship few years (which were arguably not as good) were solid, though not great.

The scary thing about Kentucky last year was that they were good. Real good. Don't underestimate them. In a different set of circumstances they could have easily won the whole thing and in the future they just might (though next year seems like a stretch, maybe further down the line). But thank god they didn't and hopefully they won't. Go Duke.

[Olympic Fan]

I think you're not going far enough in analyzing the way that Duke fan's have mischaracterized Kentucky's season last year. (Maybe this should be moved to the Kentucky thread at this point.) A lot of the people on this board want to take the elite eight loss and wave it in the air as evidence of the impossibility and futility of Calipari's "system," but I don't think that holds. Kentucky had one of the most successful seasons in the country last year. They were extremely talented, won a whole lot of games (even with a few close ones), took the SEC, and made a solid run to the elite eight. That is, as you say, truly a shocking turn around from the year before.

But people still want to portray that elite eight loss alone as if it is a vindication of old-style basketball over the slimy-greasy-sleazy new school, embodied in the flesh by Calipari. "Inexperience cannot win it all," they say. But I have bad news: a sample-size of one game is not large enough to draw that kind of conclusion. That's basic stats.

The reason they lost that game was not inexperience, it was an abysmal shooting night. Then, taking that into account, they didn't feed the ball into the post as much as they should have. Those things happen. Experience does not save you from ocasionally going cold from beyond the arc (see: Ray Allen after his huge shooting night in the NBA finals). How many NCAA tournament games has Duke lost in recent years because of abysmal shooting nights from very experienced players (D-marc, G, JJ).

Yet nobody here argued that those couple of bad games in the clutch were signs of the end of Duke basketball and everything it stands for. They actually argued against that, pointing instead towards Duke's total body of work, which was still good. Yet nobody gives Kentucky's season the same thoughtful and thorough analysis. They look at their last year as a complete failure while Duke's pre-Championship few years (which were arguably not as good) were solid, though not great.

The scary thing about Kentucky last year was that they were good. Real good. Don't underestimate them. In a different set of circumstances they could have easily won the whole thing and in the future they just might (though next year seems like a stretch, maybe further down the line). But thank god they didn't and hopefully they won't. Go Duke.

My point is that Kentucky fans are trying to use their inexperience as an excuse for their failure to reach the final four. While not wrong, it's tough to use that as an excuse when that's going to be the foundatiion of your program.

It's kind of like a Yankee or a Red Sox fan complaining that it's tough to win a World Series with a bunch of free agents.

While I agree that one game is not enough of a sample to demonstrate that a freshman-dominated team can't win it all, I would submit that the sample size is MUCH larger. It's just one year at Kentucky, but we've had dozens and dozen's of freshmen dominated teams try to win titles. How many succeed?

Well, no team with three freshmen starters has EVER won the NCAA (at least since WWII -- don't know about the war years when freshmen were eligible). Pretty sure that only one with that many made it to the Final Four -- the Michigan Fab Five losing by 20 points to a more experienced Duke team in 1992.

No team with a freshmen in the starting lineup has won a title since UConn won with Josh Boone in 2004. The year before, Syracuse won with two freshmen -- Anthony and McNamara. That's the only title team I can find with two freshmen starting

You say that Kentucky lost because of a terrible shooting night ... not inexperience. I think you are wrong. It's one thing to have a poor shooting night, it's another thing to keep jacking up 3-pointers when they are not going in. Only an inexperienced team would miss 20 straight 3s ... a team with more experience (or a better game coach) would have forced it inside. Yeah, West Virginia made that tough to do, but the tendency for a team to take what's easy (in this case 3-point shots) is the hallmark of an inexperienced team. West Virginia WANTED Kentucky to jack up those shots.

Certainly anything can happen in the future, but I repeat that the most likely outcome for the Wildcats -- as long as they depend on even great one-and-done talent -- will be to have very successful teams that fall short in the NCAA Tournament.

If I'm wrong and they ever hang a banner with three-plus freshmen in the starting lineup, I promise to come here and apologize (if I live long enough).

[Greg_Newton]

Only an inexperienced team would miss 20 straight 3s ... a team with more experience (or a better game coach) would have forced it inside. Yeah, West Virginia made that tough to do, but the tendency for a team to take what's easy (in this case 3-point shots) is the hallmark of an inexperienced team.

...Especially given how they had 3 big men who were first round picks in that year's draft. Good point.

[Jderf]

My point is that Kentucky fans are trying to use their inexperience as an excuse for their failure to reach the final four. While not wrong, it's tough to use that as an excuse when that's going to be the foundatiion of your program.

Totally agree here; it's dripping with irony.


While I agree that one game is not enough of a sample to demonstrate that a freshman-dominated team can't win it all, I would submit that the sample size is MUCH larger. It's just one year at Kentucky, but we've had dozens and dozen's of freshmen dominated teams try to win titles. How many succeed?

Well, no team with three freshmen starters has EVER won the NCAA (at least since WWII -- don't know about the war years when freshmen were eligible). Pretty sure that only one with that many made it to the Final Four -- the Michigan Fab Five losing by 20 points to a more experienced Duke team in 1992.

No team with a freshmen in the starting lineup has won a title since UConn won with Josh Boone in 2004. The year before, Syracuse won with two freshmen -- Anthony and McNamara. That's the only title team I can find with two freshmen starting

I still don't think the sample size is big enough. There are very few freshman-dominated teams that are talented enough to contend for the title, and this makes sense because freshman are typically less experienced (I give you that), less developed, and less court savvy. But when a freshman-dominated team actually is talented enough to contend for a title, to categorically state that they simply will not be able to win it because they are freshman is, I think, a mistake.

You bring up some good examples (as well as preempt my counter-example of Syracuse) where great freshman-led teams didn't quite make it. But I would say that they didn't lose because they lacked the magical quality of "experience," but because winning a national championship is just really, really hard to do. When you take such a small set of teams and put them up against the field, I don't think it's as surprising that only one has finished on top.

Also, like I said before, it is not difficult in the least to name dozens of upperclassmen-led teams that have choked.


You say that Kentucky lost because of a terrible shooting night ... not inexperience. I think you are wrong. It's one thing to have a poor shooting night, it's another thing to keep jacking up 3-pointers when they are not going in. Only an inexperienced team would miss 20 straight 3s ... a team with more experience (or a better game coach) would have forced it inside. Yeah, West Virginia made that tough to do, but the tendency for a team to take what's easy (in this case 3-point shots) is the hallmark of an inexperienced team. West Virginia WANTED Kentucky to jack up those shots.

Personally, I put more of the weight of that loss on Calipari, who looked completely helpless on the sidelines, and never seemed to even make an attempt at adjustments. I imagine him in the time-out huddle shouting, "Guys! We went over this in practice. How hard can it be? You dribble, then you drive! Dribble-drive!"

He was completely outclassed by a man in a sweatsuit.

[Saratoga2]

What cannot be denied is that Calipari took UMass and Memphis down similar roads only to have the teams discredited due to NCAA infractions. Magically, he was able to avoid the stigma of having been the coach who had that record, while Kentucky eagerly courted and signed him. Kentucky certainly should be concerned, when some of this years students were brought in despite other teams not finding them academically qualified. That is not to generalize for all the students, as we know that some did well in that respect.