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BD80
06-23-2010, 10:09 PM
How many of you ever thought you'd see a statement like this about an NBA GM?


A sticking point in some of the discussions [to trade the No. 10 pick in the NBA draft for an established point guard] is the Pacers' reluctance to trade Brandon Rush and Josh McRoberts.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20100623/SPORTS04/6230343/1004/SPORTS/Trading-pick-for-point-guard-might-be-way-to-go-for-Pacers

I read it several times to make sure I was reading it correctly.

Cameron
06-23-2010, 10:26 PM
Maybe the unnecessary behind the back dribbles at mid-court have suddenly become relevant? If so, then I wouldn't trade the young Earvin Johnson either. He can get complicated out there and trick you up if you're not careful.

NovaScotian
06-23-2010, 10:32 PM
the boy has got some skillz:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/This-is-Josh-McRoberts-world-and-we-re-just-liv?urn=nba,232071

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePBbWw9zmwI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeM60yuGQ54

he may not be there just yet, but he's come a long long way from vcu.

phaedrus
06-23-2010, 10:33 PM
Maybe the unnecessary behind the back dribbles at mid-court have suddenly become relevant? If so, then I wouldn't trade the young Earvin Johnson either. He can get complicated out there and trick you up if you're not careful.

Unnecessary? I'm sorry, but that time McBob nailed two behind-the-back dribbles in a row - with nary a dribble between them - while leading a fast break through multiple defenders - that was pretty sweet.

And I don't care if it was a carry.

Cameron
06-23-2010, 10:41 PM
I'm just having fun with the only thing he's remembered for -- the double behind the back dribble moment.

Obviously, I wasn't taken by Mr. McRoberts.

Verga3
06-23-2010, 10:52 PM
How many of you ever thought you'd see a statement like this about an NBA GM?



http://www.indystar.com/article/20100623/SPORTS04/6230343/1004/SPORTS/Trading-pick-for-point-guard-might-be-way-to-go-for-Pacers

I read it several times to make sure I was reading it correctly.


What statement about the GM are you referencing?

OldPhiKap
06-23-2010, 10:53 PM
I'll say the same thing about McBob that I said on the Taylor King thread. If the coaches felt enough about the guy to bring him, and he invested the time and effort to work for the school (no matter how many seasons), he's part of the family. Whether he's my favorite or my least favorite member of the family, i am sure he put out more effort for the school while he was here than most of us sitting behind our keyboards.

Good luck, Josh. Good luck, Taylor. Go Duke. Go to Hell, Carolina.

-- OPK

DevilHorns
06-23-2010, 10:55 PM
I'm just having fun with the only thing he's remembered for -- the double behind the back dribble moment.

Obviously, I wasn't taken by Mr. McRoberts.

I'm trying to find a vid of that. Do you remember what game it was in?

Oriole Way
06-23-2010, 11:14 PM
I'm trying to find a vid of that. Do you remember what game it was in?

Not positive, but I want to say Wake Forest. My second guess would be Georgia Tech.

Wander
06-24-2010, 12:16 AM
I'm close to 100% sure it was the away game at Georgia Tech.

If anyone went to the Pacers game in Indianapolis during the Final Four - he played well. Of course, the defense in that game was the worst I've ever seen in any professional sport, but he still looked pretty good.

DevilHorns
06-24-2010, 12:32 AM
Not positive, but I want to say Wake Forest. My second guess would be Georgia Tech.


I'm close to 100% sure it was the away game at Georgia Tech.

If anyone went to the Pacers game in Indianapolis during the Final Four - he played well. Of course, the defense in that game was the worst I've ever seen in any professional sport, but he still looked pretty good.

Yup. Was against G. Tech. I remember it now!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtE1I_zV94w&feature=related

around the 4:30 mark

ElSid
06-24-2010, 12:44 AM
Yup. Was against G. Tech. I remember it now!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtE1I_zV94w&feature=related

around the 4:30 mark

dang after watching those highlights i kinda miss the guy. if he had stayed he'd have been a senior last year right? with paulus? that would have been interesting. might have challenged for most hated player award for sure.

guy could really ball but he still has this body language thing that he probably can't even help...kind of slumpy shoulders, kind of a jerk like head bob. smirk.

that said, I agree with whomever pointed out that the guy came in and was a dukie for 2 years so he's family. i still look at pacers stats to see how he's doing. why not. i think he has a long career ahead of him in the nba.

amazinballer323
06-24-2010, 12:54 AM
God what the hell happened. That was an amazing freshmen year!

m g
06-24-2010, 01:40 AM
God what the hell happened. That was an amazing freshmen year!

revisionist memories and groupthink happened. mcroberts was a great player and would have been a real help to the team if he had stayed longer - maybe he wasn't cut out to lead it as a soph, but it's kind of crazy that so many people label him a bust

DukieBoy
06-24-2010, 02:19 AM
Yup. Was against G. Tech. I remember it now!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtE1I_zV94w&feature=related

around the 4:30 mark

I never realized how good McRoberts was. Dang. That team with him, Paulus, Singler, G, Nolan, Jon, LT, McClure. Would have been a great team

mgtr
06-24-2010, 03:05 AM
As I recall, there was a lot of talk that McBob had a bad back, and needed to go to the NBA before it went out. Was that just talk? I don't recall his being out for treatment as a pro, but I could easily have missed it.

amazinballer323
06-24-2010, 03:51 AM
I could see him unraveling all because of the expectations and leadership requirements. I mean think about how thin we were as far as leadership went.

When Josh was a freshman everybody was either a senior or freshmen outside of Demarcus if I remember correctly. Demarcus was a hell of a leader in my opinion by example but a lot of pressure we on Josh as well.

roywhite
06-24-2010, 06:29 AM
revisionist memories and groupthink happened. mcroberts was a great player and would have been a real help to the team if he had stayed longer - maybe he wasn't cut out to lead it as a soph, but it's kind of crazy that so many people label him a bust

He was neither a great player nor a bust.

Josh was a good player who came in with very high expectations and didn't live up to them. He was an athletic, versatile player who could handle the ball well, rebound, defend, and score on dunks.

He could not shoot worth a darn.

Lord Ash
06-24-2010, 07:10 AM
Jeez, definitely had forgotten how damned athletic Josh was. Man alive, that kid could DUNK.

oldnavy
06-24-2010, 07:21 AM
Yup. Was against G. Tech. I remember it now!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtE1I_zV94w&feature=related

around the 4:30 mark

As cool as those dribbles were, the one that impressed me the most was the dribble from behind his back, between his legs (a reverse between the legs-back to front) that he used to split a double team. Not only was it a very cool move, it was the only move he could have made to split the double team. I cannot remember who it was against, but it was pretty neat.

CrazieDUMB
06-24-2010, 09:12 AM
He was neither a great player nor a bust.

Josh was a good player who came in with very high expectations and didn't live up to them. He was an athletic, versatile player who could handle the ball well, rebound, defend, and score on dunks.

He could not shoot worth a darn.

Couldn't agree more. I think it's a classic example of someone that was ruined by his own high school reputation. If he just came in without all the hype, we would have loved him. Don't forget that he was pretty smooth all around (except on his shot, which had a bit of a hitch) and an excellent passer. After JJ and Shelden, people kind of expected Duke to stay in the upper echelon on this guy's back, which is unfair for almost any sophomore. Especially when his teammates were almost all freshmen.

SMO
06-24-2010, 09:17 AM
He was neither a great player nor a bust.

Josh was a good player who came in with very high expectations and didn't live up to them. He was an athletic, versatile player who could handle the ball well, rebound, defend, and score on dunks.

He could not shoot worth a darn.

You folks should pull his Soph year numbers and compare them to other Duke greats like Alarie, Laettner, Singler, and Shelden Williams. If he didn't meet expectations, were they realistic? He may have had personality or leadership issues, but his numbers were very good.

jjh1080
06-24-2010, 09:25 AM
This was my observation of McRoberts:

Scoring - good
Defense - average
Mental toughness and leadership - failed

Cockabeau
06-24-2010, 09:27 AM
I am going to agree with Don Imus on this one. Yes, Josh is one of ours. Yes, Josh was a nice defender and re bounder in the interior. Having said that, Josh ranks up there with Corey Maggete as one of my least liked Blue Devils. As one poster mentioned the body language and the head bob instantly turned me off.I do not know Josh personally so I don't know about his work ethic but the kid came to Duke with no jump shot and left Duke with no jumpshot.If I had 10% of the kids raw talent and size, I would be working on a shot or inside move 12 hours a day.Having said that, I realize that Josh is just a kid and those years for Josh were tumultuous due to his parents getting a divorce. Also, Josh could have left after his first year but didnt. So Josh gets a bit of a pass from me.a bit.

Cockabeau
06-24-2010, 09:30 AM
As cool as those dribbles were, the one that impressed me the most was the dribble from behind his back, between his legs (a reverse between the legs-back to front) that he used to split a double team. Not only was it a very cool move, it was the only move he could have made to split the double team. I cannot remember who it was against, but it was pretty neat.

It was against Wake Forest I believe.

Duke09
06-24-2010, 09:35 AM
Unnecessary? I'm sorry, but that time McBob nailed two behind-the-back dribbles in a row - with nary a dribble between them - while leading a fast break through multiple defenders - that was pretty sweet.

And I don't care if it was a carry.

Maybe I have a faulty memory, but I remember those two dribbles being followed up by a missed shot on the break, either by McRoberts or whoever finished the break. Always felt like a microcosm of his career, flashes of brilliance, but never completely adding up.

miramar
06-24-2010, 09:38 AM
You folks should pull his Soph year numbers and compare them to other Duke greats like Alarie, Laettner, Singler, and Shelden Williams. If he didn't meet expectations, were they realistic? He may have had personality or leadership issues, but his numbers were very good.

Here they are:

Josh McRoberts Stat Summary:

Season GP MPG PPG FG% 3FG% FT% APG RPG BPG SPG
2006-07 33 35.3 13.0 50.2 21.7 66.4 3.5 7.9 2.5 1.2
2005-06 36 24.5 8.7 60.5 38.5 66.4 1.5 5.3 1.3 1.1
Career 69 29.7 10.8 53.9 27.7 66.4 2.4 6.5 1.9 1.2

Those offensive stats may be inflated since it was not a great team and he had to take extra shots, but the problem may be 1) he was expected to carry the team and didn't have the offensive skills to do that, and 2) the personality and leadership issues you mention.

The three veterans on that team (McRoberts, Nelson, Paulus) certainly lacked the scoring ability everyone expected, but DeMarcus and Greg were tireless workers and they left with everyone's respect. Nevertheless, if someone else had carried the scoring load McRoberts would have been a very good complementary player, with or without his issues.

No matter what, I wish him the best. I'm sure he's older and wiser, something that I'm working on myself.

yancem
06-24-2010, 09:58 AM
He was neither a great player nor a bust.

Josh was a good player who came in with very high expectations and didn't live up to them. He was an athletic, versatile player who could handle the ball well, rebound, defend, and score on dunks.

He could not shoot worth a darn.

His sophomore year yes, but coming out of high school and his freshman year he his shot was just fine. The video linked earlier from his freshman year showed him smoothly making several 3's and a couple of nice mid range shots. Something happened between his first and second year, be it mental or physical, and his shot went way south. He just didn't look comfortable taking any shot outside of 5 feet.

In the end I think that he wasn't ready to be the go to guy, he needed a batman to his robin. Had the '07 team had an upperclassman stud he may have blossomed at little more and grown into the go to status. But unfortunately, that wasn't to be. I hope that he continues to develop in the nba and can become a solid starter.

roywhite
06-24-2010, 09:59 AM
Here they are:

Josh McRoberts Stat Summary:

Season GP MPG PPG FG% 3FG% FT% APG RPG BPG SPG
2006-07 33 35.3 13.0 50.2 21.7 66.4 3.5 7.9 2.5 1.2
2005-06 36 24.5 8.7 60.5 38.5 66.4 1.5 5.3 1.3 1.1
Career 69 29.7 10.8 53.9 27.7 66.4 2.4 6.5 1.9 1.2

Those offensive stats may be inflated since it was not a great team and he had to take extra shots, but the problem may be 1) he was expected to carry the team and didn't have the offensive skills to do that, and 2) the personality and leadership issues you mention.

The three veterans on that team (McRoberts, Nelson, Paulus) certainly lacked the scoring ability everyone expected, but DeMarcus and Greg were tireless workers and they left with everyone's respect. Nevertheless, if someone else had carried the scoring load McRoberts would have been a very good complementary player, with or without his issues.

No matter what, I wish him the best. I'm sure he's older and wiser, something that I'm working on myself.

Thanks for the numbers, and good comments.

Basketball is a team game and the individual's role depends a lot on the skills and capabilities of his teammates. Josh was asked to do a lot, and was not able to carry the team. Unfortunately, his contemporary, TH at Chapel Hill, was a star.

One of the things that sticks with me about Josh's role on the 2006-07 was that he was frequently situated at the high post, where he could utilize his passing skills. Unfortunately, he could not consistently hit a 13 to 17 foot shot, so defenses sagged off him, and the team offense struggled. When opponents are able to play off your best player, that's not a good sign.

I noticed Josh turned 23 earlier this year. He has travelled a bumpy road to the NBA, but he's with a team in his old home town, and is making progress. Wish him well.

hq2
06-24-2010, 10:07 AM
I don't know how many people remember this, but the alley oop reverse slam he did against Carolina was one of the most incredible dunks in Duke history. He caught it close to 10 feet from the basket, was more than 11 feet in the air, and leaned in backwards and reverse jammed it. It was amazing.

McBobs always had the athletic skills to be a good NBA player, but he didn't have the basketball skills. Now, finally, after years of work, he has them. He is set to be a decent, maybe starting level NBA player for years to come. It's sad he was never quite up to what people expected from him at Duke, but the expectation levels were too high and his overall skill levels too low for the two sides to meet. In the end, both sides were fed up with each other; it's just as well he left when he did.

mr. synellinden
06-24-2010, 01:01 PM
His sophomore year yes, but coming out of high school and his freshman year he his shot was just fine. The video linked earlier from his freshman year showed him smoothly making several 3's and a couple of nice mid range shots. Something happened between his first and second year, be it mental or physical, and his shot went way south. He just didn't look comfortable taking any shot outside of 5 feet.

In the end I think that he wasn't ready to be the go to guy, he needed a batman to his robin. Had the '07 team had an upperclassman stud he may have blossomed at little more and grown into the go to status. But unfortunately, that wasn't to be. I hope that he continues to develop in the nba and can become a solid starter.

It's important to remember that McRoberts is only 23. He is only a few months older than Wesley Johnson.

If you look at his game log you'll see why people believe he has a lot of potential - like his game against Washington when he played 30 minutes and had 14 pts. (7 of 15) 12 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 blocks and a steal. Or his game against the Lakers: 15 pts. (7 of 12) 4 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 steals in 23 minutes; or 11 pts (5 of 8), 6 rebounds 2 assists 2 steals 3 blocks in 28 minutes against Utah. Or 18 points (8 of 9) 12 rebounds 1 assist 2 steals and 1 block in 33 minutes against Houston (the night before the National Championship game in Indy).

Edouble
06-24-2010, 01:18 PM
Couldn't agree more. I think it's a classic example of someone that was ruined by his own high school reputation. If he just came in without all the hype, we would have loved him.

I have always felt that McRoberts got an unfair share of the blame for the failings of the 2006-07 team. Although they are beloved around here, if Paulus and Nelson had matched their reputations/expectations coming out of high school, what Josh brought to the table would have been plenty.

Josh had a similar attitude to Laettner's, the main difference being that Laettner had talent around him willing to step up to his challenge when it was issued. I was not fond of seeing Josh yell at his teammates, but that certainly wasn't the only thing wrong with the 06-07 squad.

RelativeWays
06-24-2010, 01:29 PM
I have always felt that McRoberts got an unfair share of the blame for the failings of the 2006-07 team. Although they are beloved around here, if Paulus and Nelson had matched their reputations/expectations coming out of high school, what Josh brought to the table would have been plenty.

Josh had a similar attitude to Laettner's, the main difference being that Laettner had talent around him willing to step up to his challenge when it was issued. I was not fond of seeing Josh yell at his teammates, but that certainly wasn't the only thing wrong with the 06-07 squad.

Going to have to disagree with you there. McBob and Laettner may have both been cocky, but Laettner thrived on being the man, on adversity, he lead by antagonising a group of players who were just as competitive as he was (especially Hurley). Most of all, Laettner HATED to lose, you could tell how much losing seemed to tick him off and add gasoline to his blazing ego.

McBob never seemed to seize that challenge the way Laettner did, he seemed reluctant in wanting to be the guy to lead the team, no matter how much K tried to push him in that direction. Duke never wins the 91 and 92 championship if Laettner had McBob's attitude.

ncexnyc
06-24-2010, 02:00 PM
My, oh my. It's really interesting to see, how winning a National Championship helps put things into perspective. We see the journey players like Brian, Jon, and Lance took and how each of them progressed, gradually improving their game year after year and what the final result was.
Coach K always talked about the youth and inexperience the teams of '07 and '08 had and why it was something that was difficult to overcome and I believe we saw that to be true. Kids like McRoberts, Paulus, and Nelson had a lot riding on their shoulders and the pieces just weren't there for them to be sucessful as a unit. Josh bailed for whatever reason, Nelson finally put it together his Senior year, and Greg had injury issues and a shift in team direction his final year. All three kids were solid players, but they left without a ring, that doesn't make them bad players or bad people.

greybeard
06-24-2010, 05:02 PM
As I recall, there was a lot of talk that McBob had a bad back, and needed to go to the NBA before it went out. Was that just talk? I don't recall his being out for treatment as a pro, but I could easily have missed it.

I think that the talk was that McRob's had a bad back that hurt his play his what turned out to be his final season at Duke and that a back like that was likely to have just so much play left in it--best to get paid before what was left ran out. That was at least my take.

By the way, the high lights of McRob at Duke showed him much, much more fluid and active his freshman year pre-surgery than his next year post.

OldPhiKap
06-24-2010, 05:11 PM
I think that Zoubs shows the difference between playing healthy and playing hurt.

I hope McBob does well, and that he thinks more of Duke than many here seem to think of him.

Sandman
06-24-2010, 06:23 PM
I'm close to 100% sure it was the away game at Georgia Tech.

If anyone went to the Pacers game in Indianapolis during the Final Four - he played well. Of course, the defense in that game was the worst I've ever seen in any professional sport, but he still looked pretty good.

I was at that game and agree -- I was astounded by McBob's aggressiveness and hustle. He had a double-double that game, leading 3 ex-Duke players, who all scored double digits (DJ and MD).

NovaScotian
06-24-2010, 06:28 PM
I think that the talk was that McRob's had a bad back that hurt his play his what turned out to be his final season at Duke and that a back like that was likely to have just so much play left in it--best to get paid before what was left ran out. That was at least my take.

By the way, the high lights of McRob at Duke showed him much, much more fluid and active his freshman year pre-surgery than his next year post.

i definetely agree. not that he was that bad in 07. i feel like his most glaring flaw was his unwillingness to play in the post on offense. do y'all remember how he would just hang out on the perimeter, even though he was often the tallest player we had on the court? he just wanted to show off his 'guard skills,' which were pretty good. he was a truly dynamic player who just wasn't ready to carry a team on his back and be the primary post option on offense.

SilkyJ
06-24-2010, 06:29 PM
I think that the talk was that McRob's had a bad back that hurt his play his what turned out to be his final season at Duke and that a back like that was likely to have just so much play left in it--best to get paid before what was left ran out. That was at least my take.


Well the more prevailing notion was that Josh's family needed the money.

There was also talk, and I can't remember if this was conjecture or if someone affiliated with the program actually said this, that Josh had basically told Coach K he planned to stay for 2 years from the get-go, so it was all part of the plan...

oldnavy
06-24-2010, 06:40 PM
Well the more prevailing notion was that Josh's family needed the money.

There was also talk, and I can't remember if this was conjecture or if someone affiliated with the program actually said this, that Josh had basically told Coach K he planned to stay for 2 years from the get-go, so it was all part of the plan...

To be honest I never really warmed up to him. He was very talented, and I was excited when he came in, but I never got the feeling he bought into Duke Basketball. Easy enough to say now, but it just seemed he was on his own plan all along. Oh well, I wish him the best.

Bob Green
06-24-2010, 07:33 PM
Well the more prevailing notion was that Josh's family needed the money.

I thought Shav Randolph was the player who went pro due to his family's financial concerns.

weezie
06-24-2010, 07:53 PM
Arrrggghhhh, seriously!
I think there's a statute of limitations on dead horse pounding...

Newton_14
06-24-2010, 08:04 PM
I think that the talk was that McRob's had a bad back that hurt his play his what turned out to be his final season at Duke and that a back like that was likely to have just so much play left in it--best to get paid before what was left ran out. That was at least my take.

By the way, the high lights of McRob at Duke showed him much, much more fluid and active his freshman year pre-surgery than his next year post.

I think a lot of people do not realize Josh had back surgery the summer after his freshman year, or do not realize the impact the surgery had. You are 100% correct that he lost the bounce he had his freshman year. It was obvious to me, he was limited and impacted quite a bit by the back issue. He still had a very good year imo and his stats were really good for a sophomore with no veteran leadership to lean on.

The problems with his shot in my humble opinion can be traced back to his youth. Josh is not a natural lefty. If I recall correctly he broke his right wrist as a kid and began shooting lefty to compensate. He never switched back. At Duke he shot free throws and jump shots lefty but almost always used his right hand on close range shots and dunks. On shots in the lane it was like he would get hung up not knowing if he should use the left hand or the right. I will always believe that was a huge detriment to his shot.

If I could be his shooting coach, I would force him to go back to shooting right-handed and make him shoot a 1000 shots a day starting at 3 feet and progressing back to the 3-point line on a set program. I believe in the end he would get better results. In all honesty it couldn't be much worse.

Attitude aside, the guy could play. Had he been on the 07-08 and 08-09 teams with Singler and Gerald, the ceilings on those teams would have been much higher.


Note; The double behind the back game was the road game at Ga Tech.

DukieInBrasil
06-25-2010, 08:51 AM
If I could be his shooting coach, I would force him to go back to shooting right-handed and make him shoot a 1000 shots a day starting at 3 feet and progressing back to the 3-point line on a set program. I believe in the end he would get better results. In all honesty it couldn't be much worse.



Actually Josh shot quite well from the floor this past year and .340+ from 3 so it could be worse. The 1000 shots per day part, don't know bout the left vs right part tho', basically been the blueprint for Josh in NBA and it's been working alright.
I think that Josh needed to shake the rust out of his back and get someone to force him to shoot those 1000 shots/day to become a legit, NBA worthy player, and it looks like he has gotten there. I'm not saying he's ready to be a star, but it looks like he has earned a long-term chance in the NBA.
For all his flaws at Duke, it seems that he is a hard worker.

sagegrouse
06-25-2010, 09:23 AM
I wonder why there is so much angst over McRoberts, considering that (a) he was a productive player his two years at Duke and (b) that other players left after two years or fewer [Avery, Brand, Maggette, Deng]. Maybe he just didn't win enough games.

Productive player? I think so. His numbers were not as good as Laettner's first two years, but still good: they were basically the same as freshmen, but as sophomores Laettner scored (16.3 v. 13.0) and rebounded (9.6 v. 7.9) better. And FWIW the majority of Laettner's rebounds were on the offensive board (wow!). McBob did better on blocks and assists and worse as a FT shooter (66.4%). And, of course, Christian was the best player in Duke history.

Left too soon? Others did as well, and Avery and Maggette left without the blessing of Coach K. The four who left for the NBA after one or two years all had FF appearances.

Didn't win big? Yep. I think that's the reason. Duke did really well his first year, finishing #1 in the AP poll, although losing to LSU in the round of sixteen. His sophomore year was the worst Duke year in a decade. I guess we thought McBob owed us another lap or two around the track to prove that 2007 was a fluke.

Josh is a Duke man, and I wish him the best.

sagegrouse

77devil
06-25-2010, 12:39 PM
I wonder why there is so much angst over McRoberts, considering that (a) he was a productive player his two years at Duke and (b) that other players left after two years or fewer [Avery, Brand, Maggette, Deng]. Maybe he just didn't win enough games.

Productive player? I think so. His numbers were not as good as Laettner's first two years, but still good: they were basically the same as freshmen, but as sophomores Laettner scored (16.3 v. 13.0) and rebounded (9.6 v. 7.9) better. And FWIW the majority of Laettner's rebounds were on the offensive board (wow!). McBob did better on blocks and assists and worse as a FT shooter (66.4%). And, of course, Christian was the best player in Duke history.

Left too soon? Others did as well, and Avery and Maggette left without the blessing of Coach K. The four who left for the NBA after one or two years all had FF appearances.

Didn't win big? Yep. I think that's the reason. Duke did really well his first year, finishing #1 in the AP poll, although losing to LSU in the round of sixteen. His sophomore year was the worst Duke year in a decade. I guess we thought McBob owed us another lap or two around the track to prove that 2007 was a fluke.

Josh is a Duke man, and I wish him the best.

sagegrouse

Not sure I understand all the consternation either. McBob is a footnote to me. But I think your last sentence may be the essence of the discord. I don't believe he is perceived as a Duke man. My son was friendly with players on the 2006 team and the word was that Josh never unpacked his bags. It's not a coincidence, to me at least, that Avery, Maggette and Josh seem to be the least liked early departures.

SupaDave
06-25-2010, 03:09 PM
Not sure I understand all the consternation either. McBob is a footnote to me. But I think your last sentence may be the essence of the discord. I don't believe he is perceived as a Duke man. My son was friendly with players on the 2006 team and the word was that Josh never unpacked his bags. It's not a coincidence, to me at least, that Avery, Maggette and Josh seem to be the least liked early departures.

Maggette? Ya think? Avery sure. Josh, I think is more disappointment than anything. But Maggette? I've seen a number of people defend him on this board.

oldnavy
06-25-2010, 06:46 PM
I wonder why there is so much angst over McRoberts, considering that (a) he was a productive player his two years at Duke and (b) that other players left after two years or fewer [Avery, Brand, Maggette, Deng]. Maybe he just didn't win enough games.

Productive player? I think so. His numbers were not as good as Laettner's first two years, but still good: they were basically the same as freshmen, but as sophomores Laettner scored (16.3 v. 13.0) and rebounded (9.6 v. 7.9) better. And FWIW the majority of Laettner's rebounds were on the offensive board (wow!). McBob did better on blocks and assists and worse as a FT shooter (66.4%). And, of course, Christian was the best player in Duke history.

Left too soon? Others did as well, and Avery and Maggette left without the blessing of Coach K. The four who left for the NBA after one or two years all had FF appearances.

Didn't win big? Yep. I think that's the reason. Duke did really well his first year, finishing #1 in the AP poll, although losing to LSU in the round of sixteen. His sophomore year was the worst Duke year in a decade. I guess we thought McBob owed us another lap or two around the track to prove that 2007 was a fluke.

Josh is a Duke man, and I wish him the best.

sagegrouse

Best post yet on this thread. You have hit on something, and I think that might have been the reason I never warmed up to him. Had we had more success during that time, I believe folks would have looked at him totally different. I think I may have anyway.

77devil
06-26-2010, 06:42 AM
Maggette? Ya think? Avery sure. Josh, I think is more disappointment than anything. But Maggette? I've seen a number of people defend him on this board.

You need to improve your reading comprehension. I didn't write disliked. I'm sure every player has his supporters on this board. That doesn't change the accuracy of my statement.

Of the early departures, Maggettee is less popular than most, if for no other reason than his involvement with Myron Piggie that precipitated an NCAA investigation.

miramar
06-26-2010, 09:37 AM
Maggette? Ya think? Avery sure. Josh, I think is more disappointment than anything. But Maggette? I've seen a number of people defend him on this board.

Maybe it's me, but when Maggette left it was a bit of a shock because all of a sudden the 1999-2000 team was not only losing the seniors, but also three underclassmen (Maggette, Brand, and Avery).

Nevertheless, even with those losses the 2000 team still had Battier, Carrawell, Williams, Boozer, James, Dunleavy, and Horvath, and finished the regular season ranked #1 but lost in the sweet sixteen. Needless to say, Duke won the championship the next year, so we just moved on and didn't worry about Maggette any more (in fact, we were happy he was gone once the scandal broke out).

So maybe the problem isn't Josh at all, but some of the collective angst people felt about the apparent decline in Duke basketball. Now that we know that rumors of our demise have been greatly exaggerated, maybe it's time to move on with Josh as well.

I personally hope he makes big bucks, has lots of kids, and sends them all to Duke (to graduate, of course).

MChambers
06-26-2010, 09:41 AM
When McRoberts left, there was an article or two (by Feinstein?) that suggested that the coaching staff wasn't all that sorry to see him go. The articles suggested that he wasn't all that coachable and never unpacked his bags. I have no idea if the articles were right, but I think they explain some of the lack of affection for McRoberts.

I actually think he was a darned good player, albeit one who couldn't shoot, and if he had come back for his junior and senior seasons, Duke would have been darned good. Not Final Four good, but top fifteen easily.

Jderf
06-26-2010, 10:03 AM
When McRoberts left, there was an article or two (by Feinstein?) that suggested that the coaching staff wasn't all that sorry to see him go. The articles suggested that he wasn't all that coachable and never unpacked his bags. I have no idea if the articles were right, but I think they explain some of the lack of affection for McRoberts.

I actually think he was a darned good player, albeit one who couldn't shoot, and if he had come back for his junior and senior seasons, Duke would have been darned good. Not Final Four good, but top fifteen easily.

Well, we were top-15 anyway for what would have been his senior season, right? So we should have been pretty close to a final four.

COYS
06-26-2010, 11:02 AM
Well, we were top-15 anyway for what would have been his senior season, right? So we should have been pretty close to a final four.

His rebounding would've been nice against WVU in 2008, too, especially after Singler got into early foul trouble. I know Josh may have his flaws, but I always liked him and continue to root for him in the NBA. People forget that he's still very young (Wes Johnson is the same age as Josh) and I think he has yet to show us what he can do in the league.

miramar
06-26-2010, 11:30 AM
When McRoberts left, there was an article or two (by Feinstein?) that suggested that the coaching staff wasn't all that sorry to see him go. The articles suggested that he wasn't all that coachable and never unpacked his bags. I have no idea if the articles were right, but I think they explain some of the lack of affection for McRoberts.


The article is interesting to look at in hindsight about McRoberts and about the Duke program in general. While Feinstein seemingly comes to bury Duke, not praise them, there is one prescient observation: "Duke might very well climb the heights again in the near future. It won't be easy. Roy Williams has rebuilt North Carolina to superpower status, and the ACC appears deep and talented and will be for a long time to come. But Krzyzewski's greatest strength may be dealing with failure."

Here it is:

"The Din Surrounding Duke Has Grown Dim
By John Feinstein
Saturday, March 10, 2007; E10
TAMPA The end was surprising. Not the loss to North Carolina State. Anyone who has been paying attention during this basketball season knew that Duke was perfectly capable of losing to the Wolfpack. It wasn't even the fact that N.C. State scored on every possession of overtime against a team that once prided itself on playing shut-down defense...

http://pvsunday.blogspot.com/2007_03_04_archive.html

nmduke2001
06-26-2010, 03:32 PM
I wonder why there is so much angst over McRoberts, considering that (a) he was a productive player his two years at Duke and (b) that other players left after two years or fewer [Avery, Brand, Maggette, Deng]. Maybe he just didn't win enough games.

Productive player? I think so. His numbers were not as good as Laettner's first two years, but still good: they were basically the same as freshmen, but as sophomores Laettner scored (16.3 v. 13.0) and rebounded (9.6 v. 7.9) better. And FWIW the majority of Laettner's rebounds were on the offensive board (wow!). McBob did better on blocks and assists and worse as a FT shooter (66.4%). And, of course, Christian was the best player in Duke history.

Left too soon? Others did as well, and Avery and Maggette left without the blessing of Coach K. The four who left for the NBA after one or two years all had FF appearances.

Didn't win big? Yep. I think that's the reason. Duke did really well his first year, finishing #1 in the AP poll, although losing to LSU in the round of sixteen. His sophomore year was the worst Duke year in a decade. I guess we thought McBob owed us another lap or two around the track to prove that 2007 was a fluke.

Josh is a Duke man, and I wish him the best.

sagegrouse

I find it curious how people often use excuses like, "he didn't have the talent around him," "he played hurt," "he was too young to be a leader" for Greg Paulus. However, those same excuses don't work for McRoberts. You can't put up numbers like Josh did and not work hard. I wonder if people would have liked him more if he slapped the floor or yelled out to the crowd more often?

amazinballer323
06-26-2010, 04:11 PM
I think Josh needed to be the 4 man. He ended up having to be our biggest guy on the court. He was a perfect complement to Shelden and he and Melchioni together made it a nightmare for team's frontlines with the Landlord down low as well. Without someone to complement him the following year though we struggled.