Taylor King News- Surprise?

[scheyeronfire]

Thanks to BattierD12 for finding this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5312710

[BD80]

Thanks to BattierD12 for finding this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5312710

... Villanova forward Taylor King has left the team following a violation of team rules, ...


King, ... was benched during the Wildcats' regular-season finale against West Virginia for what Jay Wright deemed a "teaching point." He played sparingly in the Big East tournament and limited minutes in Villanova's two NCAA tournament games.


The source said that King had some "personal issues" he had to work through.

[Jderf]

That's kind of sad to hear, but surprising, no. I'll never forget him sharing a few cigarettes with a buddy of mine on the Bassett bench just a few hours before the UNC game freshman year...

[Newton_14]

It is sad really. Taylor could have been a solid 4 year role player either at Duke or Nova. He was never going to be a star. It is not clear if he thinks he is better than he really is and gets disgruntled over minutes, or if the dude just has issues that he somehow cannot or will not overcome.

I was sad when he left Duke and based on his game and hometown, felt he should have transferred to a West Coast school like Gonzaga or Mt St Mary's, etc where he likely would have gotten all the minutes he wanted.

Just a weird guy to figure out. It is well documented he could not kick the smoking habit which of course did nothing to help him on the court.

I hope he figures out his issues whatever they may be and goes on to a degree and success in the real world. It is up to him to want it though. He seems to be going nowhere fast at the moment. From the article it appears he may be giving up on college basketball as it stated he will stay in school at Nova and seek a degree if I read that correctly.

I wish him well...

[Azdukefan]

That's kind of sad to hear, but surprising, no. I'll never forget him sharing a few cigarettes with a buddy of mine on the Bassett bench just a few hours before the UNC game freshman year...

Pardon my French but, "that's a damn shame!" This kid has world class talent and decides to throw it away. I would have given ANY extremity just to be a cog in one UNC/DUKE game. I guess the cigarrette was his warmup....smh. The kid had opportunities some of us can only dream about. For his sake, I hope he finds whatever it is he is seeking so those of us with less than average talent can't continue to say, "what a waste!"

FWIW TK was my favorite freshman a few years ago. Had I known what I know now, I would have bid ye good riddance.

[Jderf]

Pardon my French but, "that's a damn shame!" This kid has world class talent and decides to throw it away. I would have given ANY extremity just to be a cog in one UNC/DUKE game. I guess the cigarrette was his warmup....smh. The kid had opportunities some of us can only dream about. For his sake, I hope he finds whatever it is he is seeking so those of us with less than average talent can't continue to say, "what a waste!"

FWIW TK was my favorite freshman a few years ago. Had I known what I know now, I would have bid ye good riddance.

To be honest, I kind of regret posting that sole comment as if it summed him up as a person. I didn't hang out with him all the time or anything like that, but was a few doors down from him and it's hard not to learn a few things about someone who lives down the hall. For all extents and purposes, he seemed like a good guy. Maybe he just needs a little touching up on his work ethic. It's too bad, really. Hopefully he turns it around.

[SCMatt33]

I'm certainly not surprised that this happened. Besides incredible talent, it takes extreme drive and willpower to make it at the highest levels of athletics. It is an incredible sacrifice to make. Unfortunately, it was pretty evident that he had the talent, but lacked the work ethic. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, though. As I said, it takes EXTREME drive to make it, and very few people have that. I'm very happy to see that he is sticking it out to get his degree and wish him the best.

[PumpkinFunk]

That's kind of sad to hear, but surprising, no. I'll never forget him sharing a few cigarettes with a buddy of mine on the Bassett bench just a few hours before the UNC game freshman year...

That was just about all he was good for, unfortunately. The smoking was a small part of what made him an incredibly unlikable person to those of us who shared a dorm with him. He is a talented player, but he continues to burn through his chances at colleges. It's a shame.

[miramar]

I don't want to judge the situation without all the facts, but it sure is a shame that things have not worked for TK at Villanova.

Whatever the problem is, it appears that he will stay at 'Nova and get his degree, so I hope everything gets straightened out in the meantime.

While transfers have sometimes been a problem for Duke over the years, I can't think of anyone other than Billy McCaffrey who did particularly well at another school. I thought TK might be the second exception, but it seems that his career could well be over. That's really too bad.

[DukieBoy]

I recall seeing a Youtube video from a while back of him burying threes from one step inside of half court. Not just one, but hitting numerous in a row. Obviously, I can't find it when I need it, but that just speaks about how good he could of been.

best of luck to him

[ricks68]

I don't want to judge the situation without all the facts, but it sure is a shame that things have not worked for TK at Villanova.

Whatever the problem is, it appears that he will stay at 'Nova and get his degree, so I hope everything gets straightened out in the meantime.

While transfers have sometimes been a problem for Duke over the years, I can't think of anyone other than Billy McCaffrey who did particularly well at another school. I thought TK might be the second exception, but it seems that his career could well be over. That's really too bad.

Do the name Elliot Williams ring a bell?

ricks

[MisterRoddy]

Do the name Elliot Williams ring a bell?

ricks

Exactly, I would count 18 per and declaring after your sophomore season doing pretty well.

[ElSid]

I will miss making jokes about how King looks like Biff from Back to the Future. Sounds like he might have played the part well in old Bassett hall? Meh. Before you pounce on me for being judgmental, just remember...where there's smoking, there's fire. Ba dum bum, pish.

Maybe we dodged a bullet with him. He seemed to do ok at times for Villanova but petered out down the stretch. For Duke, he seemed to have a bad attitude fairly often. I wish him the best, but this development, and the fact we got new rings this year, makes me feel better about his transfer. Hardly an indictment of Duke's program. It's just gotta be really tough to deal with that level of discipline. And pressure. And visibility.

Smoking cigarettes in sport only worked for Mark Grace in Cubs baseball.

[DukieInBrasil]

While transfers have sometimes been a problem for Duke over the years, I can't think of anyone other than Billy McCaffrey who did particularly well at another school. I thought TK might be the second exception, but it seems that his career could well be over. That's really too bad.

Chris Burgess did fine at Utah or wherever, he didn't light up the world but he was better than average. Jamal Boykin also ended up doing fine at Cal, perhaps better than he would at Duke. EWill has been mentioned, but his transfer was a family thing and not a basketball thing. But your idea seems to be about right, it is very seldom that someone transfers away from Duke and blossoms.
As for King, I'm of the mind that he was a team-negative and it seems like he would have done something at Duke to get K to kick him off the team.

[miramar]

Do the name Elliot Williams ring a bell?

ricks

I guess I forgot about email! But other than for very logical reasons (McCaffrey trying to switch to point guard to make it in the NBA, Elliot's family issues), if you can't get playing time at Duke you won't become all world somewhere else.

[SMO]

Thanks to BattierD12 for finding this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5312710

Someone needs to insert himself into King's life.

[CrazieDUMB]

I remember that going into this season I was upset that King (and esp EWill) had transferred, thinking there was no way we could do it with just two guards. In retrospect though, given how efficient we were last year, I don't know how I would have felt about having a guy who never met a 3 he didn't like. Sounds like we dodged a bullet. Best of luck to him, but also a shame and a waste.

[Reilly]

Joey Beard seems to have carved out a nice life post-transfer. He avg'd 12.8 points and 9 rebs his senior year at BU.

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=AHS

[CLT Devil]

I will never forget going to an early season game (can't remember who we played...Barton?) and watching King hit about 6 or 7 threes, from all over the court. I remember looking at my Dad and saying, "I think I can get used to this!" After that though he got limited time due to slow feet on defense and never really hit his stride. His nickname 'IcyHot' fit him perfectly; either dead-on or just couldn't hit. Too bad his game never seemed to develop at Villa, although I think he was used down low a bit due to his size.

All the best to him...a lot of folks are jerks their freshmen year in college. Whether you grow up is the true test, Bball or no Bball.

[scheyeronfire]

I will never forget going to an early season game (can't remember who we played...Barton?) and watching King hit about 6 or 7 threes, from all over the court. I remember looking at my Dad and saying, "I think I can get used to this!" After that though he got limited time due to slow feet on defense and never really hit his stride. His nickname 'IcyHot' fit him perfectly; either dead-on or just couldn't hit. Too bad his game never seemed to develop at Villa, although I think he was used down low a bit due to his size.

All the best to him...a lot of folks are jerks their freshmen year in college. Whether you grow up is the true test, Bball or no Bball.

If I remember correctly that was the game TK dropped around 24 on Eastern Kentucky

[roywhite]

All the best to him...a lot of folks are jerks their freshmen year in college. Whether you grow up is the true test, Bball or no Bball.

We don't know all the facts/circumstances around this situation, but perhaps TK just doesn't want to play big-time college basketball or is not willing to make the personal lifestyle sacrifices that go into training. There's nothing really wrong with that; seems to me he made a mistake when he left Duke and went to another, pretty similar high-level D-1 program.

Perhaps a better decision for TK would have been (or may still be) to give up basketball or go to a lower level of competition.

[oldnavy]

I wish him the best. I was upset when he left Duke, because I really wanted to see him develop over his career, but it appears now that he just wasn't that into basketball or at least the work side of the game. I hope he finds his place, and he will be a killer for some rec/church league team!

[Cameron]

As many here might remember, I bet that King Taylor (a nickname I invented, but one that will probably go down as one of the worst in Duke basketball history) would average double figures as a freshman. Jumbo won that bet and the rest, as they say, is history. Obviously, he was one of my favorites when he started here. Who would have thought it would of played out like this?

There's no need to go into detail, but I will never forget some of the stories I heard about King from a (reliable) kid who lived down the hall from Taylor, while I was working the Duke Camp in '08. I hope he finds help at Nova.

[DU82]

Smoking cigarettes in sport only worked for Mark Grace in Cubs baseball.

Smoking tobacco wasn't the problem that got him kicked off the 'Nova team.

[OldPhiKap]

Smoking tobacco wasn't the problem that got him kicked off the 'Nova team.

Well, that worked for Bill Walton.

Whatever the circumstances, I hope things play out well for Taylor. If the coaches felt good enough to bring him to Duke, and he put out the effort to be on the team (even for a year), he's part of the family. I wish him well.

[Cameron]

If I remember correctly that was the game TK dropped around 24 on Eastern Kentucky


27. A Duke freshman record. A shame.

[BD80]

Smoking tobacco wasn't the problem that got him kicked off the 'Nova team.

Hmmmm. Sounds mysterious. Wonder what you mean ...

On an unrelated note, I did stumble across a pic of TK a couple years back:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_v-zWDIlT3zQ/Shw29SEeO4I/AAAAAAAADJA/t-Qm-Vp5pls/s400/spicoli2.jpg

[Billy Dat]

"Wait...listen to this (bangs sneaker on head)...that's my skull...I'm so wasted."

"There's no birthday party for me here?!?"

"All I need are some tasty waves and I'm fine"

"Both boards...many cases...and my pick, we're gonna jam!"

-Jeff Spicoli or Taylor King?...you decide.

[wilko]

I was once young and used to like to party as well, only I was an anonymous nobody. TK prolly can't go to the mall w/o someone knowing who he is. The spotlight is harsh and trying to make the best of both worlds has to be a battle. It sure seems to be taking a toll on him.

That stuff cant last or it will kill you. I hope he finds his way and wish him the best.

[PearlJimKusz]

Smoking cigarettes in sport only worked for Mark Grace in Cubs baseball.

Tom Heinshon did ok for himself and he used to smoke them right in the Celtic's locker room.

I am willing to guess that is the exception to the rule however.

[SilkyJ]

These are off-court problems. King's work ethic, practice habits, etc. were not the issue.

(I'm from philly, I have a source, I'll leave it at that)

[sagegrouse]

I was once young and used to like to party as well, only I was an anonymous nobody. TK prolly can't go to the mall w/o someone knowing who he is. The spotlight is harsh and trying to make the best of both worlds has to be a battle. It sure seems to be taking a toll on him.

That stuff cant last or it will kill you. I hope he finds his way and wish him the best.

6-6+ basketball players and 280 lb. football players should know that there is no way to hide. We all goof up, but a player in such a public position with so much to lose has got to have some smarts. If he has bad -- ahem -- habits, get help!

TK seems to be the height (or perhaps, depth) of immaturity.

sagegrouse
'BTW K is known for recruiting high-character players. King is an exception'

[gep]

link from DBR headlines...

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/13552389/kings-fall-lesson-to-those-who-label-high-school-stars

*************
What I hope is that it teaches the folks handing out cherished things like invitations to the McDonald's All-American game to take their jobs more seriously. Bestowing that kind of honor on an obviously inferior talent doesn't do anybody any favors. It's almost certainly going to make the committee look stupid in due time, and in the meantime it'll add expectations and eyeballs to a prospect whose more likely to be just another guy than the guy at a high-major university.
*************

I also wonder... if at times, as I think I've read before, that this "high praise" of high school players is somewhat a result of who recruits them. Duke, Kansas, UNC, etc... recruit and offer... then they immediately become "stars".

[MChambers]

I wonder if it also comes from being rated as one of the best early on (like 9th grade). As I recall, King was highly touted very early, probably because he matured physically earlier than most.

I wonder how Kendall Marshall will deal with the same issue.

[Sgt. Dingleberry]

link from DBR headlines...

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/13552389/kings-fall-lesson-to-those-who-label-high-school-stars

Huh?

That was a pretty obnoxious article...The author essentially said that he knew Paulus/King would fail in Division I and that the McDonald' AA people should stop overhyping mediocre prospects as the next big thing?

Should Coach K hire Gary Parrish as a recruiting consultant? He sounds like he has it all figured out!

[miramar]

I'm just glad he didn't throw McRoberts and Boateng in the mix.

I will have to take him at his word that he saw these things coming and that it's not all hindsight, but it seems that overall at least half of the top-rated recruits don't pan out. Duke beat the odds for a long time, but the law of averages seemed to catch up with us for a few years. Now it's caught up with UNC, so all is right with the world.

[hq2]

As far as I can tell, King never developed into an all around player. He was slow on defense (even at the 3 position, where he should have been defending) and didn't have any other offense besides jacking up 3s. It was also obvious that he had an attitude problem; he just wasn't as good as he thought he was. Overall, what happened recently doesn't sound surprising. He never would have fit in at Duke, and we didn't need his skills anyway. It was no loss that he left.

[jjh1080]

There is nothing wrong with a so-called expert giving their opinion on player. Most experts have seen these guys play multiple times. The rankings do serve somewhat of a purpose. But the fan's need to know that it is their opinion, so don't get over excited about a ranking, or a video. Some experts should be fired!

Remember, last year it was pretty much a done deal that Kansas, Kentucky and the 'Cuse were all headed for the national championship game, AT LEAST the final four. Millions of folks predicted them to be there but not a one ended up there.

The point is, rankings are only that, rankings. The test is what happens when a player steps on the floor, what does the coach do with them to develop them as a college player.

There have been many recruits that have failed and many that have gone on to be great players but I think they all had something in common, something that the fans or recruiters, etc. didn't / don't see. That is what is in their heads and hearts. No casual observation, no video will ever show that and ones head and heart is what leads us. Many players do show their head and heart at times but not always and not all of their head and heart. Thus, there is always something about a player that we will not know about until the set a foot on Coach K court. Only from that point on can we actually observe what we think their head and hearts might be like. I'm not sure what happened with Kelly last year because we didn't get to see him play much. I know he was highly rated but something had to be up since he didn't get to play much. I'm not sure if it was because Kyle was the heart of the team or what. Simply put, we don't know and to make assumptions is no better than to be rumor monger. If you have information that is first hand great but speculation is nothing better than a rumor.

I believe that the coaches, through multiple conversations with a recruit, know far far more about a recruit than any of us know so I trust they know what they are doing when they pursue or give up on a recruit. Much better than we know.

We knew King could score, everyone saw the youtube videos of that, but not many of us knew he couldn't play defense. And that folks is really what I want to hear about a recruit, is can they play hard nose defense like Coach wants. Barnes is a scorer but can he play defense? UNC needs to play defense next year and they will only be as good as their weakest link. Duke and Butler showed that defense is what gets it done, thus Duke will be only as good next season as their weakness defensive link.

Thus, just keep everything in perspective, we have no clue if a recruit will be successful until they have finished their careers at Duke.

[Rudy]

From the few times I saw Villanova play, I thought King was a much improved player. One would expect that from a 3rd year guy, but it seemed his effort was a lot better. He was the team's 2nd leading rebounder last season (5.3 rpg while playing less than half the game at 19 min/game), and a 6'6" guy in today's college basketball doesn't get that by standing around and watching.

[BD80]

... He was the team's 2nd leading rebounder last season (5.3 rpg while playing less than half the game at 19 min/game), and a 6'6" guy in today's college basketball doesn't get that by standing around and watching.

Are you suggesting he went up high for rebounds?

On a more serious note, TK had rather long arms. He was usually playing with three guards, so he was expected to rebound. It didn't seem to me he was as dedicated of a team rebounder as he was an opportunistic rebounder (sometimes at the expense of a teammate's rebound).

[DevilHorns]

Lets stop bashing TK. If you want to bash, pick a more relevant target... hawashun bawnz comes to mind.

[roywhite]

Lets stop bashing TK. If you want to bash, pick a more relevant target... hawashun bawnz comes to mind.

Hey, fair enough.

Did everyone see how Harrison Barnes says he may decide to pledge a frat at UNC? He reminds me of someone...I'm not quite sure who. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auF0BupvT0A

[SoCalDukeFan]

I saw Taylor King play in high school several times. He never looked like a "Duke Player" to me. I thought Mater Dei hid him on defense. He shot a lot. When he passed it looked like he felt he was giving the guy receiving the pass a favor. He did hustle and hustled for rebounds.

I expect that the "experts" who pick the McD's to be influenced by hype so picking TK for the McD's is something I understand. However I never understood why Duke gave him a scholarship. Of course, K knows more than I and may have seem something he liked.

UCLA had a player whose name escapes. He came in very highly rated. He rarely played. Ben Howland said he could not run from one end of the court to the other without stopping for air. The player was asked what he did in high school and he said that they played a zone defense and waited for him on offense. Hello. Wouldn't UCLA have seen that before they recruited him?

I wonder if the players get a lot of hype. Their coaches sing their praises to the college coaches who may have their doubts but figure that everyone else must be right.

SoCal

[amat1129]

Wouldn't UCLA have seen that before they recruited him?

SoCal

In UCLA's defense he was in eighth grade and about to enter one of the most dominant high school programs in the country so I assume they were counting on him developing much more defensively. Also I played with and against tk throughout my childhood growing up in huntington beach and in eighth grade he was about 6'5'' ish and was projected to get to around 6'9'' so I certainly can fault UCLA for making major assumptions but the hype and potential definitely was there. I will say that his extreme coddling and immaturity was evident at an early age i can't say im surprised.

I think a lot of this falls into pattern with other mater dei players going back to Chris Burgess who played a couple years at MD before transferring to my high school and was ranked #2 in the country in '97 behind Tmac and ahead of among others: Elton Brand, Baron Davis, Lamar Odom and Ron Artest. As many of you know Burgess was a huge disappointment at Duke and left after two years. Then obviously the Wear twins, TK, Mike Gerrity and so on. The list of mater dei players who underachieved and subsequently went to multiple schools is large and in my opinion has to be recognized.

[SoCalDukeFan]

In UCLA's defense he was in eighth grade and about to enter one of the most dominant high school programs in the country so I assume they were counting on him developing much more defensively. Also I played with and against tk throughout my childhood growing up in huntington beach and in eighth grade he was about 6'5'' ish and was projected to get to around 6'9'' so I certainly can fault UCLA for making major assumptions but the hype and potential definitely was there. I will say that his extreme coddling and immaturity was evident at an early age i can't say im surprised.

I think a lot of this falls into pattern with other mater dei players going back to Chris Burgess who played a couple years at MD before transferring to my high school and was ranked #2 in the country in '97 behind Tmac and ahead of among others: Elton Brand, Baron Davis, Lamar Odom and Ron Artest. As many of you know Burgess was a huge disappointment at Duke and left after two years. Then obviously the Wear twins, TK, Mike Gerrity and so on. The list of mater dei players who underachieved and subsequently went to multiple schools is large and in my opinion has to be recognized.

I was writing about recruiting players who have hype but problems that make their recruitment questionable. TK to Duke was one of them. I understand that its hard to project from 8th grade to college.

The UCLA questionable was J'Mison Morgan. He could not run the floor.

Dick

[amat1129]

oh wow my bad I definitely misread it, morgan certainly is the definition of unable to run the floor, he came in with so much hype and was absolutely horrible for 2 years

[Bluedevil114]

Looks like Taylor King has had second thoughts and will return home to California and play college ball again. Hopefully it works out this time around. Good luck Taylor!!

http://community.foxsports.com/goodmanonfox/blog/2010/08/10/taylor_king_debating_between_usc,_naia_route

[arydolphin]

Goodman tweeted this morning that King will go to USC. He'll sit out a year with the transfer, then have 1 year of eligibility left.

[DevilWearsPrada]

Hopefully Taylor will get his act together. If he needs help or rehab for his personal problems, then he needs to get it. Wish him the best in his college endeavors.

[Devilsfan]

Wish him only the best. Didn't Ricky Williams decide to return to sports after a short leave to straighten out his life?

[roywhite]

Wish him only the best. Didn't Ricky Williams decide to return to sports after a short leave to straighten out his life?

It was a little more than a short leave, but a great story. "Run, Ricky, Run" is one of the ESPN 30 for 30 series, and well worth watching (it's a great series overall, some of ESPN's finest work, IMO).

[BD80]

It was a little more than a short leave, but a great story. "Run, Ricky, Run" is one of the ESPN 30 for 30 series, and well worth watching (it's a great series overall, some of ESPN's finest work, IMO).

I think you can see Taylor in the background in one of the interviews with Ricky. :D

[Farlan]

Looks like Taylor King has had second thoughts and will return home to California and play college ball again. Hopefully it works out this time around. Good luck Taylor!!

http://community.foxsports.com/goodmanonfox/blog/2010/08/10/taylor_king_debating_between_usc,_naia_route

``The education is off the charts at SC,” King said. ``No offense to Duke or Villanova, but they don’t compare.”

[roywhite]

``The education is off the charts at SC,” King said. ``No offense to Duke or Villanova, but they don’t compare.”


lol....Taylor being Taylor.

We'd like to wish you well, Taylor, but you keep screwing things up.

[Lord Ash]

``The education is off the charts at SC,” King said. ``No offense to Duke or Villanova, but they don’t compare.”

Apparently someone has made use of his medical marijuana permit.

[jdj4duke]

``The education is off the charts at SC,” King said. ``No offense to Duke or Villanova, but they don’t compare.”

How would he be able to tell? Does this mean that he might be able to handle the course work a little better at SC than at Duke or 'Nova?

I would entertain his comments or analysis about jump shot form, but not so sure that his assessment of institutional academic excellence deserves media coverage. At least it provides a chance for a bit of commentary on a slow August day.

What a doofus.

[sagegrouse]

``The education is off the charts at SC,” King said. ``No offense to Duke or Villanova, but they don’t compare.”

You have to understand his metric. When you are emptying a pond with a small bucket :rolleyes:, the smaller the pond the better. In this analogy, a USC education compares favorably with Duke.

sagegrouse
'That was mean, I confess'

[Kedsy]

``The education is off the charts at SC,” King said. ``No offense to Duke or Villanova, but they don’t compare.”

Well, he's right. They don't. Just not in the way he seems to mean it. Seriously, who would compare an education at USC to an education at Villanova or Duke?

[miramar]

The most interesting part of the quote has been removed, apparently to spare our sensibilities.

http://community.foxsports.com/goodmanonfox/blog/2010/08/11/taylor_king_headed_back_home_-_to_usc

No matter what, I still like TK. He's the gift that keeps on giving.

[CEF1959]

Well, he's right. They don't. Just not in the way he seems to mean it. Seriously, who would compare an education at USC to an education at Villanova or Duke?

Let's not get snotty or parochial here. USC is an enormous world-class teaching and research university where one can get an really great education (and a great tan) by applying oneself. Not TK's forte so far, but that's not USC's fault.

[SilkyJ]

Well, he's right. They don't. Just not in the way he seems to mean it. Seriously, who would compare an education at USC to an education at Villanova or Duke?


Let's not get snotty or parochial here. USC is an enormous world-class teaching and research university where one can get an really great education (and a great tan) by applying oneself. Not TK's forte so far, but that's not USC's fault.

USC is a pretty darn good school. USnews ranks them in the top 30 in the country (I realize they aren't the end-all of rankings, but still). They may not be a top-10 school like Duke but you can get an excellent education from USC.

Villanova is a whole other story, but I am from Philly and live in California and by my estimates a USC education outclasses a Villanova one, and I know a fair number of people who graduated from both institutions.

[weezie]

Also, my son pointed out that the young ladies at USC are quite attractive....NOT to knock our Duke women (one of which his mother is, ahem) or the Villanova females but
seriously......:cool:

[jdj4duke]

Let's not get snotty or parochial here. USC is an enormous world-class teaching and research university where one can get an really great education (and a great tan) by applying oneself. Not TK's forte so far, but that's not USC's fault.

Your comments are certainly true, but "Off the charts' compared to Duke? Wouldn't think so. It's not by any means a snotty or parochial slam at USC, but by any number of rankings, qualifiers, or stats, Duke sets a higher bar than USC (and Nova). As it does compared to almost every other university.

I don't think anyone is trying to turn this into a self-serving comparison of educational excellence between USC and Duke (not to mention that our athletic department's record of NCAA compliance is a plus in my book). Duke, and subsequently 'Nova, just didn't happen to be the right places for TK but I doubt that academic life was the primary determinant in his decision-making process (although he certainly could have opted for three less challenging schools).

Even though he will have had the rare chance to attend three universities as an undergrad, TK is probably not the best person to comment on the relative academic merits of the institutions. I think everyone takes Taylor at his word that the obvious high quality education at USC was an important factor in his decision, and that he takes advantage of yet another great opportunity.

[roywhite]

It may have happened before, but I can't recall a "double transfer" career for a D-1 athlete; in the rare events of two transfers, the second one is generally to a school in a lower classification.

In fact, I wasn't aware that an athlete could have more than one redshirt year for a reason other than a medical problem, and that requiring a NCAA waiver. Perhaps I missed this---will Taylor King have 2 more years of eligibility left at USC or just one?

[Duvall]

It may have happened before, but I can't recall a "double transfer" career for a D-1 athlete; in the rare events of two transfers, the second one is generally to a school in a lower classification.

In fact, I wasn't aware that an athlete could have more than one redshirt year for a reason other than a medical problem, and that requiring a NCAA waiver. Perhaps I missed this---will Taylor King have 2 more years of eligibility left at USC or just one?

Just one. You get five years to play four, barring an NCAA waiver.

[jdj4duke]

Also, my son pointed out that the young ladies at USC are quite attractive....NOT to knock our Duke women (one of which his mother is, ahem) or the Villanova females but
seriously......:cool:

When Matt Leinart announced he would return to USC for his senior year and all the pundits and talking heads were trying to come up with reasons why, I think it was either Tony Kornheiser or Bob Ryan who after all the high-falutin' sports and psychological speculation said something to the effect of "Have you seen the cheerleaders at USC?"

[CEF1959]

Matt had something he could say to a hot cheerleader: "NFL Quarterback."

TK's line is: "I'm a 23 year old senior with a history of instability in my life, no real prospects for the future, and some shady habits. Wanna hang out?"

Not the same. It can work on those women who like to make projects of guys, but it's not the same.

But just to come clean: When he was recruited by Duke, I was very pleased. The guy held (still holds?) the all-time scoring record at Mater Dei. And keeping those LA connections is important for recruiting. Some guys are coachable projects. Some guys just won't listen (or have priorities other than basketball that call them away). I see TK as a guy whose priorities were never 100% basketball. Fine for him. Same with me. I wish him luck.

[roywhite]

Just one. You get five years to play four, barring an NCAA waiver.

Thanks. Looks like TK has hit upon one of those alternative work schedules...one year on, one year off, one year on, one year off, one year on...

As others have pointed out, basketball is not his only interest; this may suit him.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I think it is interesting that he is lauding the academics, and yet he is taking 5 years to graduate. Hopefully he will be graduating with a couple of degrees under his belt, or will be at least in grad school in 2011.

[Duvall]

To be fair, King is planning to apply to the USC film school (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2010/08/usc-basketball-former-mater-dei-star-taylor-king-to-transfer-to-usc.html), and it's unlikely that either Duke or Villanova offers a program that strong in that area. On the other hand, how is Taylor King getting into the USC film school?

[OldPhiKap]

``The education is off the charts at SC,” King said. ``No offense to Duke or Villanova, but they don’t compare.”


"You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means."

[RoyalBlue08]

I hope this kid gets his act together, but I am not optimistic. I have never had an opportunity anywhere near as good as the two he has already screwed up. (Free education and opportunity to play DI basketball and two great universities.) Now he gets a third shot, simply because he is tall and can shoot a basketball at a high percentage from a long way away. I hope he realizes that this is the last time anyone is going to care about that somewhat limited talent that he has, and that this is probably going to be his last good chance to do something with himself and take advantage of the talent he was born with.

[calltheobvious]

Not that TK hasn't provided plenty of discussion fodder with his ill-phrased comparison, but how about the desperation of USC to make this deal in the first place? They're burning two scholarship-years in exchange for one season from this guy?

[DevilDan]

I hope this kid gets his act together, but I am not optimistic. I have never had an opportunity anywhere near as good as the two he has already screwed up. (Free education and opportunity to play DI basketball and two great universities.) Now he gets a third shot, simply because he is tall and can shoot a basketball at a high percentage from a long way away. I hope he realizes that this is the last time anyone is going to care about that somewhat limited talent that he has, and that this is probably going to be his last good chance to do something with himself and take advantage of the talent he was born with.


I hear you, ROYAL ... yet it seems that King has a mentality that apparently has not changed much since his time at Mater Dei. I watched several of his games both in regular season and the state playoffs; it was clear that ALL he wanted to do was SHOOT the BALL. It made me very leery when I heard he was headed to DUKE, for I knew he'd have to make many adjustments, both physical and mental.

The last time DUKE had such a player, it was the estimable Rick Katherman -- known affectionately (?) as "The Manchester Rifle", after his hometown AND his tendency to let it fly from anywhere in the frontcourt. Bob Verga and Art Heyman were sharpshooters for their teams, but contributed in so many other ways. I just think that King thinks he can put a team on his back, score 35-40 a night (right) and be a star.

I hope that in the friendly SoCal confines he can get a solid year under his belt, then maybe find a "shooter's spot" on a European team.

[4decadedukie]

To use one of Casablanca's famous phrases, I am shocked, shocked that King would transfer to the "University of Spoiled Children."
;)

[johnb]

Seems like we're being pretty tough on the kid. I suppose there are rumors about character and effort, but do we know him personally? Yes, he was anointed a basketball superstar in 8th grade, but that wasn't his fault. He's best as a spot up jump shooter and doesn't play defense like Battier and his hoops career hasn't worked out for him as yet, but these aren't cardinal sins. He didn't say USC was, overall, worlds better than Duke or Villanova, though perhaps he was implying its film school is great (which it is), but even if he had, so what? Every recruit says stuff like that when they sign with a school. And, incidentally, Southern Cal has been making impressive strides in the past 20 years in regards to academics. In some ways, it's like Duke in about 1985--the more established schools may be disparaging, but the future, as they say, looks bright for the most visible private school in one of the richest parts of the world.

All this teeth gnashing reminds me of getting bent out of shape over a girlfriend from 5 years ago who I didn't even like all that much, in which we broke up mutually after no great love was lost, who has dated a little since then, and now has a date with a good looking Californian who's pretty bright and pretty successful and has a somewhat tarnished past. Should I wish the old girflriend well? Sure--hope he/she scores 20 a game, and we win another championship.

[miramar]

Not that TK hasn't provided plenty of discussion fodder with his ill-phrased comparison, but how about the desperation of USC to make this deal in the first place? They're burning two scholarship-years in exchange for one season from this guy?

Since USC is out of scholarships, he will have to pay his own way for a year. This just gets curioser and curioser, but since a USC education is off the charts then I am sure he will get his money's worth.

[Bluedog]

To be fair, King is planning to apply to the USC film school (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2010/08/usc-basketball-former-mater-dei-star-taylor-king-to-transfer-to-usc.html), and it's unlikely that either Duke or Villanova offers a program that strong in that area. On the other hand, how is Taylor King getting into the USC film school?

He never says he's going to the film school. In fact, he says he's a communications major. However, he wants to go into film as a career so usc having a lot of connections in that area will help him later on. At least, that's how I understood the comment.

[DevilWearsPrada]

Good Luck to Taylor!!!! I am glad he left. Because Miles came to Duke, to play with brother, Mason. And that paved the way for Marshall, also. Had TK not transferred, the available scholarship would not have been available for Miles. And Duke has a 4th Championship.

Not many people get 3 chances, at anything. Hopefully, he will succeed back home in Cali.

[Kdogg]

It may have happened before, but I can't recall a "double transfer" career for a D-1 athlete; in the rare events of two transfers, the second one is generally to a school in a lower classification.

In fact, I wasn't aware that an athlete could have more than one redshirt year for a reason other than a medical problem, and that requiring a NCAA waiver. Perhaps I missed this---will Taylor King have 2 more years of eligibility left at USC or just one?

The only basketball player I can remember that enrolled in three D-1 schools is Makhtar Ndiaye. He did not play for Wake but was a student (and at UM and UNC.)

[camion]

The only basketball player I can remember that enrolled in three D-1 schools is Makhtar Ndiaye. He did not play for Wake but was a student (and at UM and UNC.)

And that turned out well didn't it?:rolleyes:

[4decadedukie]

Seems like we're being pretty tough on the kid. I suppose there are rumors about character and effort, but do we know him personally?

I was unaware that one had to know an individually “personally” to form a valid opinion regarding character, work either, and so forth. For example, I suspect very few of us knew either of the Vick brothers personally – even before their felonious incidents – however, many suspected that they were stellar athletes but not very laudable citizens or students (I am not suggesting that King and the Vicks are comparable; rather, that legitimate assessments can be made only from media reports, etc.).

[calltheobvious]

Since USC is out of scholarships, he will have to pay his own way for a year. This just gets curioser and curioser, but since a USC education is off the charts then I am sure he will get his money's worth.

Well, that makes it a much less curious move for USC I guess. Do the transfer rules require him to actually go to school next year, or could he serve his transfer sentence from home? That would certainly be cheaper than paying his own freight at USC for a year before going on scholly.

[Jim3k]

King and Kevin O'Neill will make quite a pair -- if they can.

King is a bit of a free spirit. O'Neill is a 'my way or the highway' kind of guy. I'm betting King does not know what he's getting into.

I know oil and water can be mixed if there is some kind of emulsifier. I don't think there is an emulsifying agent between O'Neill and King.

High risk ahead.

[BD80]

King and Kevin O'Neill will make quite a pair -- if they can.

King is a bit of a free spirit. O'Neill is a 'my way or the highway' kind of guy. I'm betting King does not know what he's getting into.

I know oil and water can be mixed if there is some kind of emulsifier. I don't think there is an emulsifying agent between O'Neill and King.

High risk ahead.

I pretty sure that O'Neill doesn't approve of TK's choice of emulsifiers.

Besides, this isn't just oil and water dude! This is SoCal surf, which is literally tubular! What doesn't mix in that gnarly action bra?

My money is that TK doesn't make it through his second red shirt year, transfers to a DIII school and plays the second semester and all of next year. He won't survive O'Neill's unrelenting criticism in practice for even a month or two.

[SoCalDukeFan]

First TK picks Duke. Even though his high school team hides him on defense in the zone he goes to a man to man school. Why K recruited him remains a mystery. I know TK was hyped but our coaches are supposed to see through the hype.

Then TK picks Villanova Does TK know his shortcomings. Apart from everything else, a bad choice for him.

Now he picks USC. Hard nosed coach who stresses D. School trying to rebuild their rep.

At least its close to home.

SoCal

[ACCBBallFan]

First TK picks Duke. Even though his high school team hides him on defense in the zone he goes to a man to man school. Why K recruited him remains a mystery. I know TK was hyped but our coaches are supposed to see through the hype.

Then TK picks Villanova Does TK know his shortcomings. Apart from everything else, a bad choice for him.

Now he picks USC. Hard nosed coach who stresses D. School trying to rebuild their rep.

At least its close to home.

SoCal

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/usc/post/_/id/2923/taylor-king-no-longer-coming-to-usc

[CameronBornAndBred]

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/usc/post/_/id/2923/taylor-king-no-longer-coming-to-usc

He and Brett Farve should hold a camp on the art of indecision.

[SCMatt33]

He and Brett Farve should hold a camp on the art of indecision.

At least Brett Favre is consistent in his inconsistency. He retires every February or March and returns every July or August. I don't think anyone know what or when TK will do anything. I'm just waiting for the blog post telling me that he's going to try and go pro overseas. Then he can be indecisive internationally!

[4decadedukie]

He and Brett Farve should hold a camp on the art of indecision.

Well, CB&B, good humor aside, I know we would both agree that there is a tremendous difference between King and Frave . . . Farve actually has superb athletic accomplishments, he has excelled in competition, and he has a documented performance record that makes him a lock for the Hall of Fame; then there is King.

[monkey]

Seems like we're being pretty tough on the kid. I suppose there are rumors about character and effort, but do we know him personally? Yes, he was anointed a basketball superstar in 8th grade, but that wasn't his fault. He's best as a spot up jump shooter and doesn't play defense like Battier and his hoops career hasn't worked out for him as yet, but these aren't cardinal sins. He didn't say USC was, overall, worlds better than Duke or Villanova, though perhaps he was implying its film school is great (which it is), but even if he had, so what? Every recruit says stuff like that when they sign with a school. And, incidentally, Southern Cal has been making impressive strides in the past 20 years in regards to academics. In some ways, it's like Duke in about 1985--the more established schools may be disparaging, but the future, as they say, looks bright for the most visible private school in one of the richest parts of the world.

All this teeth gnashing reminds me of getting bent out of shape over a girlfriend from 5 years ago who I didn't even like all that much, in which we broke up mutually after no great love was lost, who has dated a little since then, and now has a date with a good looking Californian who's pretty bright and pretty successful and has a somewhat tarnished past. Should I wish the old girflriend well? Sure--hope he/she scores 20 a game, and we win another championship.

Totally agree with the above. Look, the kid hasn't got it all figured out and seems clearly confused. I'm wishing him the best - things haven't really turned out as he or we would have liked but geez, cut the kid some slack. It's his life.

[anon]

His facebook says he's at Concordia.

[DevilDan]

Totally agree with the above. Look, the kid hasn't got it all figured out and seems clearly confused. I'm wishing him the best - things haven't really turned out as he or we would have liked but geez, cut the kid some slack. It's his life.


I too wish TKing the best. But first, he must explore the true meaning of the term ACHIEVEMENT. Nothing in its definition hints at being "handed" something for free, without hard work and commitment (as he was apparently led to believe at Mater Dei).

I get the sense at some point he will officially ditch the college quest, and start to market his shooting skills to the leagues in Europe and Asia. With his current resume, it could be a tough sell.

[sagegrouse]

If Taylor King did not exist, you couldn't make him up.

sagegrouse

[Bluedog]

His facebook says he's at Concordia.

Which Concordia? Aren't there a bunch of them? There's Concordia University in Canada as well as several in the Concordia College system such as Irvine. (Edit: I guess I'd assume Irvine.) When I look at a facebook profile for "Taylor King," I see Duke listed as the only school. Perhaps it's not his real profile as it has a picture of Duke jerseys hanging in the rafters, and I doubt he'd be leaving that up. In any event, quite a turn of events for Mr. King.

[jimsumner]

First TK picks Duke. Even though his high school team hides him on defense in the zone he goes to a man to man school. Why K recruited him remains a mystery. I know TK was hyped but our coaches are supposed to see through the hype.

Then TK picks Villanova Does TK know his shortcomings. Apart from everything else, a bad choice for him.

Now he picks USC. Hard nosed coach who stresses D. School trying to rebuild their rep.

It's actually more complicated than that. Remember, he originally committed to UCLA. So, he's got a pretty complicated resume.

Hopefully, he'll figure it out and find some peace.

[tommy]

I don't know about you guys, but even though TK is way, way, off Broadway at this point, I'm ready for him to get off the stage. I don't wish him ill, of course, but I just don't care anymore about his travels. Dude has made a series of seemingly bad decisions. I'm fine with him fading into oblivion.

[miramar]

Some guys end up in the D-League, some guys end up in D-II.

Something tells me that we are going to keep hearing about this guy until he ends up on some intramural team somewhere.

[Devilsfan]

"Seven years of college down the drain. I guess I could join the f'n Peace Corps".

[JasonEvans]

Just so we are all clear, we all understand that Taylor is going to a non-Div I school so he can play right away, right?

As a 2 time transfer he would have lost a year of eligibility that he could never get back if he had gone to USC. He also would have had to pay his own way this year at USC. By going to a smaller school he gets to play right away this upcoming season and then go to USC (or elsewhere in Div I) on a scholarship and not have to sit out a year. To me, it is a bit of a no-brainer for a kid who clearly cares about playing time.

--Jason "I'll be interested to see what kind of numbers he puts up at Concordia" Evans

[oldnavy]

Just so we are all clear, we all understand that Taylor is going to a non-Div I school so he can play right away, right?

As a 2 time transfer he would have lost a year of eligibility that he could never get back if he had gone to USC. He also would have had to pay his own way this year at USC. By going to a smaller school he gets to play right away this upcoming season and then go to USC (or elsewhere in Div I) on a scholarship and not have to sit out a year. To me, it is a bit of a no-brainer for a kid who clearly cares about playing time.

--Jason "I'll be interested to see what kind of numbers he puts up at Concordia" Evans

Count me as one who wishes only the best for TK. Obviously he is confused and has made some bad choices, but what is he now 19-20? I think back on some of the things that I did at that age and TK seems like a Rhodes Scholar compared to me. Thank God, and I mean that literally, that I lived through my shenanigans and began to make much better choices. I hope and pray the same for TK and every young adult growing up in this mixed up world we live in.

[devildeac]

I wonder if the phrase "off the charts" would still apply here:rolleyes:;).

[OldPhiKap]

Count me as one who wishes only the best for TK. Obviously he is confused and has made some bad choices, but what is he now 19-20? I think back on some of the things that I did at that age and TK seems like a Rhodes Scholar compared to me. Thank God, and I mean that literally, that I lived through my shenanigans and began to make much better choices. I hope and pray the same for TK and every young adult growing up in this mixed up world we live in.

Very well said.

TK has a lot of talent, and his ego took some serious knocks when he arrived at Duke and realized that he was not an instant smash. He is obviously in search of a good fit for him and his skills, and I hope he finds it.

It would be a great story if he pulls it all together and has a good professional career, wherever that may be.

[4decadedukie]

I find the large number of “we wish him well” responses to this thread to be gratifying and indicative of the generous character of Dukies. I ,too, hope King squares himself away, does well, and is happy and successful. However, my observation is prima donnas do not normally have an easy course, largely because their values and attitudes frequently impede achievement.

[OldPhiKap]

I find the large number of “we wish him well” responses to this thread to be gratifying and indicative of the generous character of Dukies. I ,too, hope King squares himself away, does well, and is happy and successful. However, my observation is prima donnas do not normally have an easy course, largely because their values and attitudes frequently impede achievement.

I am hoping that circumstances have taught some humility. Truth is, I think you have to be pretty cocky to play at the highest level. If you don't believe you can do it, and believe that you can be the best, you have little chance of reaching the pinnacle.

Reality has a way of slapping us in the face at the most inopportune times. It is a painful lesson, and in his case it is played out on a national stage. All of us deal with failure from time to time, and most of us have the luxury of suffering these setbacks in private.

But, as you point out, some rivers run too deep to change their channels. I hope that is not the case here.

[DevilWearsPrada]

Hopefully, TK will finish his college degree, and have some sort of success with the remainder of his College Basketbal career. TK, like so many other student athletes, shined and starred while in high school. But when they arrive at Div 1 universities, a whole set of New Rules and New Play go into effect. Programs such as Duke or Nova, are very demanding and whatever is in the best interest for the team to win, is the game plan. Some kids never fit into those dynamics.

The best to TK!!! Will TK be attending Concordia in Irvine, Cali?

[4decadedukie]

Truth is, I think you have to be pretty cocky to play at the highest level.

I would agree that many -- perhaps even most -- are cocky; however, there is a HUGE difference between confidence and cockiness/conceit/arrogance. I knowingly select my most respected and revered Dukie, but does anyone believe Shane Battier was/is cocky? This said, your point is excellent.

[OldPhiKap]

I would agree that many -- perhaps even most -- are cocky; however, there is a HUGE difference between confidence and cockiness/conceit/arrogance. I knowingly select my most respected and revered Dukie, but does anyone believe Shane Battier was/is cocky? This said, your point is excellent.

I don't disagree about Shane. Christian, Dahnte, JJ, another matter . . . .

(and I mean that in a good way).

[COYS]

--Jason "I'll be interested to see what kind of numbers he puts up at Concordia" Evans

Interesting thought. I wouldn't be surprised to see him shoot and possibly even make a record number of three pointers. He may have his troubles, but not just anyone can step onto the floor of Cameron as a frosh and net 27 points.