Carolina Next Year - - Will Graves Booted from Team (10/7)

[Cockabeau]

Reading the twitter reports, whoo-hoo for Kyle, Seth, and Nolan. Whoever has been saying Kyle and Nolan "are what they are" (and thus probably won't improve much between their junior and senior years) may be in for a surprise.

It sounds like HB is the real deal, though. In addition to winning a four court length foot race, he was one of the top four in a dribbling drill (as well as Nolan and also Kendall Marshall), and one guy said, "Harrison barnes jump shot is indefensible for a guard, you just have to hope he misses." (Of course, the good news for us is we won't be defending him with a guard.) If McAdoo decides to come early, then reports of UNC's demise may have been premature.

Just how good do you think UNC will be? As good as Felton,Mcants,May,Ellington,Hans were all of them had a learning curve as freshmen.Plus this time around-no elite PG....big difference.

[SeattleIrish]

IMO, they'll be significantly better than last year. It APPEARS as if some of their chemistry issues may be over, and if McAdoo comes early, they won't be nearly as weak in the 4/5 as I had hoped.

Fortunately, they will still struggle at the point, but looks like they'll improve at 3 other positions (4 = McAddo, 3= Barnes, Henson should show some development at the post, but he' still rail-thin). I'm not sure how strong they'll be at the 2, but R.B. had a great shot in High School.

I think we will be the dominant team in the ACC and I don't think UNC will have improved enough to challenge that, but I was hoping to see some more bottom-half seasons from our rivals and that hope appears to be in vain.:(

s.i.

[Kedsy]

Just how good do you think UNC will be? As good as Felton,Mcants,May,Ellington,Hans were all of them had a learning curve as freshmen.Plus this time around-no elite PG....big difference.

I don't recall Hansbrough having all that big a learning curve as a freshman, and his 18.9/7.8 stat line supports my recollection. Some freshmen hit the ground running.

[Cockabeau]

ok that 1 out of 6. And hans isn't your normal freshmen. Plus no elite PG. I dont see Lawson. I dont see a Felton. Thats a big difference.

[Kedsy]

ok that 1 out of 6.

Well, here's the freshman stats for the other 5:

McCants: 17ppg, 4.6 rpg
Felton: 12.6 ppg, 6.7 apg
May: 11.4 ppg, 8.1 rpg
Lawson: 10.2 ppg, 5.6 apg
Ellington: 11.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg

All of them are pretty good, so I'm not sure I see your point.


And hans isn't your normal freshmen.

I agree. But who's to say that HB won't have a Hansbrough type year?


Plus no elite PG. I dont see Lawson. I dont see a Felton. Thats a big difference.

Again, I agree. I never said they are a legitimate national championship contender, because I don't think they are. But (with McAdoo) they could be a top 10 or 15 team, 2nd in ACC, top 3 or 4 seed in the NCAAT, which is what I said in my previous post.

[jv001]

But I think unc will be top 15-20 this year. marshall will probably be better than most us Duke fans think & hope. Maybe he will be too slow for ole roy's style of play. Go Duke!

[PhillyDuke]

But I think unc will be top 15-20 this year. marshall will probably be better than most us Duke fans think & hope. Maybe he will be too slow for ole roy's style of play. Go Duke!

Kendall Marshall is a defensive liability who has no outside shot to contribute to an offense. Watch the McDonald's All-American practice videos, Kyrie made him look silly on the court--in one video Kyrie crossed him and made him fall on the floor. The dude even tried to flop while the guy took the game winning shot.

Look at the Tyler Thornton videos on Youtube, because Tyler also abused Marshall. It is also well known in the DMV area that Marshall was better as a junior than as a senior.

Harrison Barnes is going to wind up having to play point guard for them!

[Vincetaylor]

Why even talk about UNC when we are clearly better? I'm more concerned about MSU and Purdue.

[Jderf]

Why even talk about UNC when we are clearly better? I'm more concerned about MSU and Purdue.

What is the point of being better than them if we don't talk about it as often as possible? :D

[natedog4ever]

This is all very encouraging, but I will need to wait for the NC Pro Am before I make any definitive judgments.

[MisterRoddy]

Why even talk about UNC when we are clearly better? I'm more concerned about MSU and Purdue.


Well if Izzo leaves (which it's looking like he will), it might only have to be Purdue.

[BD80]

... It sounds like HB is the real deal, though. In addition to winning a four court length foot race, he was one of the top four in a dribbling drill (as well as Nolan and also Kendall Marshall), and one guy said, "Harrison barnes jump shot is indefensible for a guard, you just have to hope he misses." ...

Considering how far out HB will have to go to get free against Duke , I'm not concerned. I see him cutting through the paint twice and then floating on the perimter the rest of the game.


... if McAdoo comes early, they won't be nearly as weak in the 4/5 as I had hoped. ... 4 = McAddo ...

Notice how there has been no word on McAdoo taking classes this summer? I bet ol' roy has him in media seclusion so he can't/won't answer questions, and then he'll show up in fall fully qualified. Nobody will get to ask if he took the two classes needed to get a high school degree or if he improperly snuck in with a GED.

No way McAdoo starts at the 4 in ACC play sans injury to Henson or Zeller.


... What people do disagree with you about are your contentions that Seth will start and that Kyrie, Nolan, and Seth will be on the court together for long periods of time. ...

I AGREE with him. Kyrie, Nolan, and Seth will be on the court together for SIGNIFICANT periods of time.


I don't recall Hansbrough having all that big a learning curve as a freshman, and his 18.9/7.8 stat line supports my recollection. Some freshmen hit the ground running.

Hansbrough hit the ground traveling.

[MChambers]

This is all very encouraging, but I will need to wait for the NC Pro Am before I make any definitive judgments.
You're going to make definitive judgements based on summer league basketball?

[MChambers]

Well if Izzo leaves (which it's looking like he will), it might only have to be Purdue.
A new coach, especially one who is familiar with Izzo's system, could do just fine in his first year. See Bartow, Gene; Smith, Tubby. In other sports, see Altobelli, Joseph.

[roywhite]

You're going to make definitive judgements based on summer league basketball?

natedog throws out sarcastic lines as bait...he's hooked me a time or two. :)

or were you being sarcastic to his sarcasm?...I get confused.

[MChambers]

natedog throws out sarcastic lines as bait...he's hooked me a time or two. :)

or were you being sarcastic to his sarcasm?...I get confused.

Hook, line, and sinker. Man, can't believe I missed that.

[Big Pappa]

A new coach, especially one who is familiar with Izzo's system, could do just fine in his first year. See Bartow, Gene; Smith, Tubby. In other sports, see Altobelli, Joseph.

With the same players and the same incoming freshman class, but that won't be the case with Mich State. Chris Allen has already been reported as considering transfering and according to Delvon Roe's father Allen was not at the player's meeting where Izzo spoke to the team about the Cavs job and also hasn't been attending workouts. Delvon Roe's father also told ESPN that he would advise his son to tranfer if Izzo left. It will also be hard to keep the four-man recruiting class if Izzo leaves.

Sources:

http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2010/06/delvon_roes_dad_tom_izzo_hasnt.html

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/features/rumors/_/date/20100611

[Exiled_Devil]

But I think unc will be top 15-20 this year. marshall will probably be better than most us Duke fans think & hope. Maybe he will be too slow for ole roy's style of play. Go Duke!

As long as we sweep them. Let them have a modicum of success. It gives them hope. Hope we can crush.

[Bob Green]

Harrison Barnes is going to wind up having to play point guard for them!

With Harrison Barnes and Reggie Bullock playing on the wing, Larry Drew II will be a serviceable point guard. Marshall will be able to function in the specific role of a sub off the bench as a freshman. Carolina needs to avoid injury in their front court.

[ACCBBallFan]

Talent wise UNC will be very strong, but same could be said last year.

Last year UNC lacked upperclassmen and a proven PG. Same can be said this year, even less with Graves and Knox the only seniors versus Deon and 5th year guy Ginyard, but a little stronger among juniors with Zeller having two injury shortened seasons under hsi belt plus Drew II and Watts versus jsut Graves last year. Marshall is added to mix with Drew II and strickland but none seem final four caliber PGs.

Lack of seniors affects defense which is not a UNC point of emphasis relative to run, run, run, but who steps into the Ginyard stopper role is an open question. It could be Barnes but can't keep putting HB's name of every UNC question mark, outside shot, defensive stopper, leader, go to guy etc.

UNC only had Graves as outside threat last year but this year has Graves, and Barnes and possibly Bullock can hit it consistently his first year, plus some guys might improve over summer.

UNC had way more injuries than is normal and expect this year that will be much lower.

I see UNC and Duke as usual as two of top teams in ACC with UNC possibly making sweet 16 and then anything can happen.

The other top tier ACC teams are NC State with enough talent to compete if the Red Coat can coach them up to their potential and VA Tech thanks to a very favorable ACC unbalanced schedule that helps with respect to ACC standings but hurts with respect to NCAA bubble.

[papa whiskey]

Hansbrough hit the ground traveling.

POTY

[4decadedukie]

Why even talk about UNC when we are clearly better? I'm more concerned about MSU and Purdue.

I believe we are better, too; however, I worry, especially this long before the season even starts, when we feel so overconfident and smug - bad karma. As I recall, a year ago at this time, a LOT of the Tarheel faithful were indicating that they would be clearly better than the Blue Devils in 2009-2010. We all know how that worked out.

[oldnavy]

It will be hard to say until we get a chance to see them play. Last year when they were in the early/weak part of the season I started to call them out, saying that they were in no way a top 5 or 10 team. Even though they were beating Garner Webb, Nevada and the like, you could tell that they were not clicking as a typical UNC team. So, I will hold off on any assessment until around mid-Dec. I suspect that they will be better, just because it would be hard to duplicate the disaster of last year even with Roy calling the shots :eek:

More interesting to me is how will the media respond via the preseason polls? Will they knee jerk the other way and leave them out or will they actually take a objective look and rank accordingly? If I had to guess right now, I would say 13-20 range.

[IBleedBlue]

From last season, we all know it takes a team to win the whole game. I truly believe Duke and UNC are on an equal pedestal if talent is the only factor. But experience and leadership make up the other half too. For Duke, we all know Nolan and Kyle have strong experience and are ready to act as leaders.
For UNC, only Larry Drew, Tyler Zeller and Will graves have some experience under their belt. But the biggest question mark is - who is ready to step in and be a leader? The answer to this question will have to wait until the season starts and then we will see if some one emerges.
You can have the best talent in the world, but without a leader and enough experience, you are in for a long season again. A prime example for such a debacle was Kentucky this past season.

[DevilHorns]

UNC returns:

Will Graves - Senior
Larry Drew - Junior
John Henson - Soph
Leslie Mcdonald - Soph
Dexter Strickland - Soph
Tyler Zeller - Junior
Justin Watts - Junior

UNC brings in:

Harrison Barnes
Reggie Bullock
Kendall Marshall
Justin Knox

The most senior member of that team (W. Graves) is a solid net negative in terms of leadership. He has poor work ethic, he has poor concentration (remember him high-fiving cheerleaders during the Duke-UNC game?), and is a poor role model. And its not like he has good intangibles on the court to redeem himself. Every minute I see Will Graves on the floor I gave good ole Roy a big thumbs up through my TV screen.

In terms of juniors, I think Zeller and Drew have the potential to improve next year with better potential around them. Zeller needs to stay out of injury trouble, or he's toast. He doesn't seem to be vocal, but I think he has leadership potential as he plays hard and shows heart. Drew has had to take a lot of flak for transfer rumors and for commandeering the Titanic that was UNC basketball last year. I honestly don't think he's as bad as many suspect. I think he may surprise, though I'm not expecting a Nolan Smith like jump for him.

In terms of Sophs, Henson has the highest pro-potential. If he puts on weight (like I hear he is doing) the guy may develop very well. However, he did show some lackluster effort last year many times during some of their troubling games. I hope bad habits die fast for him. Shoot, I hope thats the case for their whole team. I think Graves will just skate this year... but I think Zeller, Drew, and Henson have the potential to use last year has a positive and prove to the world that they are better than that.

In terms of new players, there is an incredible hype about Justin Knox. I'm not sure why. Maybe he's better than the Wears? Maybe not. Haven't seen him play at all during Alabama. His stats don't look that impressive.

I think Carolina fans are expecting a lot from Bullock and Marshall because of their high rankings on scout, rivals, etc and their unconscious fear that some of their guards from last year will still be ruling the court in terms of playing time. Hate to break it to you light blue guys but I wouldn't expect too much from these rookie guards next year.

However, they do have Harrison "Jesus" Barnes coming in. The savior. The multi-talented hybrid guard/forward who can guard your fastest player and your biggest (maybe hyperbole). He can do anything. But high school is high school. I know he has impressed at the CP3 camp, but thats mostly individual skills assessment. If he ends up being a big contributor on the team, can he provide a source of leadership and relentless effort? Who knows. It's a lot for a freshman to have to take control.

And that is the biggest question. We have Kyrie and Seth coming in for big impact next year. But, they aren't needed to provide leadership. They aren't needed to take control of the team's identity. I think we have the perfect situation for next year. Two very experienced Championship-class players providing the leadership, energy, and identity. And then a lot of other players that all want to grow and prove themselves. UNC does not have that. UNC right now has an identity that they want to forget forever. And the thing is their senior leadership will be weak next year again.

[davekay1971]

You can have the best talent in the world, but without a leader and enough experience, you are in for a long season again. A prime example for such a debacle was Kentucky this past season.

I sincerely hope UNC doesn't enjoy as good a season this year as KY-Jelly enjoyed last year...

As for the OP, how good will they be? We're going to be beat them like a red-headed stepchild taking it out on a rented mule. HB will be taking his never-been-unpacked bags to the NBA, smiling all the way and counting his $$$ in the bank with a 0-3 record against Duke (and he won't care one little bit).

***note: go with me on the assumption that we'll get the opportunity to spank their baby-blue-butts in the ACC tournament.

[moonpie23]

i urge caution on the predictions.....let's not turn into the IC crew....

smack talk always has a way of equalling out....

[DreAllDay]

UNC's Downfalls:
1. Their guards are unproven, turnover the rock way too much, and for the most part aren't lethal threats from deep.
2. Lack of depth in the front court- Justin Knox wouldn't even see the floor if he were at Duke imo and Zeller is constantly hampered with injuries.
3. Like others have mentioned, I don't think Bullock and Marshall will make huge contributions this year, Marshall to me is overrated. He's not quick enough to guard Curry, Irving, or Smith.
4. Overall character, work ethic, and pride is still a question mark.

Upsides:
1. Harrison Barnes- He's exactly what the doctor ordered. There is a reason Roy has never recruited a kid as hard as he did Barnes. The kid has all the skillz, is a natural leader, is extremely hard working, and is just a straight up winner. However, he does have a lot of hype to live up to, but I would be more surprised if he didn't live up to it. I expect him to be an instant All ACC guy.
2. Henson is the other guy that scares me. The dude has big NBA upside with freakish length and is a shot blocking machine. His offensive game is smooth too, I expect Henson to have a Nolan Smith-like breakout year.
3. Roy Williams- hate him, respect him, whatever, the dude wins and he's hungrier than ever... He'll get them back in the hunt

In closing, Duke will be the superior team, but UNC will be the 2nd best ACC team imo. If UNC's guards are vastly improved, Barnes and Henson have NBA lottery worthy seasons, and McAdoo comes in early then UNC could easily be a top 10 team in the country.

[Kedsy]

The other top tier ACC teams are NC State with enough talent to compete if the Red Coat can coach them up to their potential and VA Tech thanks to a very favorable ACC unbalanced schedule that helps with respect to ACC standings but hurts with respect to NCAA bubble.

If VaTech is in the bubble discussions this year I'll be very surprised. They should be a solid top 25 team.

[BlueThru&Thru]

I believe we are better, too; however, I worry, especially this long before the season even starts, when we feel so overconfident and smug - bad karma. As I recall, a year ago at this time, a LOT of the Tarheel faithful were indicating that they would be clearly better than the Blue Devils in 2009-2010. We all know how that worked out.

Correctomundo, instant karma might get you

[DukieInBrasil]

I don't recall Hansbrough having all that big a learning curve as a freshman, and his 18.9/7.8 stat line supports my recollection. Some freshmen hit the ground running.
some Fr. are 20 when they get to campus, too. Hence much of the learning has already taken place, as well as the physical development.

[jipops]

UNC returns:

Will Graves - Senior
Larry Drew - Junior
John Henson - Soph
Leslie Mcdonald - Soph
Dexter Strickland - Soph
Tyler Zeller - Junior
Justin Watts - Junior

UNC brings in:

Harrison Barnes
Reggie Bullock
Kendall Marshall
Justin Knox

The most senior member of that team (W. Graves) is a solid net negative in terms of leadership. He has poor work ethic, he has poor concentration (remember him high-fiving cheerleaders during the Duke-UNC game?), and is a poor role model. And its not like he has good intangibles on the court to redeem himself. Every minute I see Will Graves on the floor I gave good ole Roy a big thumbs up through my TV screen.

In terms of juniors, I think Zeller and Drew have the potential to improve next year with better potential around them. Zeller needs to stay out of injury trouble, or he's toast. He doesn't seem to be vocal, but I think he has leadership potential as he plays hard and shows heart. Drew has had to take a lot of flak for transfer rumors and for commandeering the Titanic that was UNC basketball last year. I honestly don't think he's as bad as many suspect. I think he may surprise, though I'm not expecting a Nolan Smith like jump for him.

In terms of Sophs, Henson has the highest pro-potential. If he puts on weight (like I hear he is doing) the guy may develop very well. However, he did show some lackluster effort last year many times during some of their troubling games. I hope bad habits die fast for him. Shoot, I hope thats the case for their whole team. I think Graves will just skate this year... but I think Zeller, Drew, and Henson have the potential to use last year has a positive and prove to the world that they are better than that.

In terms of new players, there is an incredible hype about Justin Knox. I'm not sure why. Maybe he's better than the Wears? Maybe not. Haven't seen him play at all during Alabama. His stats don't look that impressive.

I think Carolina fans are expecting a lot from Bullock and Marshall because of their high rankings on scout, rivals, etc and their unconscious fear that some of their guards from last year will still be ruling the court in terms of playing time. Hate to break it to you light blue guys but I wouldn't expect too much from these rookie guards next year.

However, they do have Harrison "Jesus" Barnes coming in. The savior. The multi-talented hybrid guard/forward who can guard your fastest player and your biggest (maybe hyperbole). He can do anything. But high school is high school. I know he has impressed at the CP3 camp, but thats mostly individual skills assessment. If he ends up being a big contributor on the team, can he provide a source of leadership and relentless effort? Who knows. It's a lot for a freshman to have to take control.

And that is the biggest question. We have Kyrie and Seth coming in for big impact next year. But, they aren't needed to provide leadership. They aren't needed to take control of the team's identity. I think we have the perfect situation for next year. Two very experienced Championship-class players providing the leadership, energy, and identity. And then a lot of other players that all want to grow and prove themselves. UNC does not have that. UNC right now has an identity that they want to forget forever. And the thing is their senior leadership will be weak next year again.

Actually, I would say Kyrie has a lot to do with Duke's identity next season. K has already made reference to gearing the team's offense around Kyrie.

Clearly unc has some young and very exceptional talent. They could very well be the most talented team in the conference in terms of the collection of individual talents. I know this thread centers around the UNC team this upcoming season, but given that Graves is quite possibly their only departing player (I'm convinced Barnes is around for 2 years), 2011-2012 UNC could be scary good.

[Big Pappa]

In closing, Duke will be the superior team, but UNC will be the 2nd best ACC team imo. If UNC's guards are vastly improved, Barnes and Henson have NBA lottery worthy seasons, and McAdoo comes in early then UNC could easily be a top 10 team in the country.

I realize this is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it, but without McAdoo I don't see them as the second-best team in the ACC, at least on paper.


If VaTech is in the bubble discussions this year I'll be very surprised. They should be a solid top 25 team.

I totally agree here and I see NC State and Va Tech challenging a couple of other teams for the 2-spot in the ACC.

[Dukeface88]

I realize this is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it, but without McAdoo I don't see them as the second-best team in the ACC, at least on paper.



I totally agree here and I see NC State and Va Tech challenging a couple of other teams for the 2-spot in the ACC.

I agree with both of these, although I'd give VaTech the inside track for number 2. On the other hand, UNC with McAdoo is a different story. Knox doesn't seem impressive; he's basically a warm body to rebound and play defense. McAdoo gives them a legitimate offensive threat, depth if Zeller is injured and an alternative to Henson if he doesn't bulk up sufficiently. A great deal will depend on whether he's able to enroll early or not.

As for the rest of their new arrivals, I agree with the concensus that HB is likely to a beast (but won't be able to carry the team on his own) and that Marshall is not the solution to UNC's point woes. In a different system he might do well, but he's fundamentally a support player in a system that requires a star at his position. I think Bullock will be their Andre Dawkins - flashes of brilliance, but inconsitent. He won't have the luxury of being the eighth man though. Of their returning players, Zeller, Strickland and Henson showed potential; Graves, Drew, Watts and McDonald did not.

[ACCBBallFan]

I agree with both of these, although I'd give VaTech the inside track for number 2. On the other hand, UNC with McAdoo is a different story. Knox doesn't seem impressive; he's basically a warm body to rebound and play defense. McAdoo gives them a legitimate offensive threat, depth if Zeller is injured and an alternative to Henson if he doesn't bulk up sufficiently. A great deal will depend on whether he's able to enroll early or not.

As for the rest of their new arrivals, I agree with the concensus that HB is likely to a beast (but won't be able to carry the team on his own) and that Marshall is not the solution to UNC's point woes. In a different system he might do well, but he's fundamentally a support player in a system that requires a star at his position. I think Bullock will be their Andre Dawkins - flashes of brilliance, but inconsitent. He won't have the luxury of being the eighth man though. Of their returning players, Zeller, Strickland and Henson showed potential; Graves, Drew, Watts and McDonald did not.
I agree with you on Marshall being a good but not great PG like Drew, kind of the UNC equivalent of Greg Paulus.

Rather than again relying on unproven frosh (Barnes being an exception) and playing like an all star team with no chemistry or UNC system knowledge, even less than with Deon and Ginyard, Reggie may be closer to an 8th man like Dre than a starter if old Roy is willing to move Barnes to SG slot to leverage his CP3 camp learning, and start along side rather than in lieu of the gunner Graves.

PG be it Drew II, Strickland or Marshall all are decent none are final four caibre yet

SG - Barnes backed up by one of PGs perhaps Strickland. or Bullock, I am also not sold on MacDonald yet

WF - Graves, and Bullock/Barnes whoever is not at SG

PF - Henson / McAdoo

C - Zeller - Knox

Just as Duke will have some issues getting enough PT for Seth and Dre to back up Kyrie, Nolan and Kyle, with minimal PT for Thornton, (or for Kelly if Kyle plays mostly PF/WF2 paired with a Plumlee),

UNC has same issue with minimal PT for Watts and then having to decide who is #7 among Drew II, Marshall, Strickland, MacDonald, Barnes, Bullock, and Graves, a problem solved for Duke when Felix opted out.

I am old school but just as I place Thornton and Hairston as frosh having to displace a guy already in the system, I do the same with Reggie Bullock and Kendall Marshall, but think they may be able to edge out Leslie MacDonald, and Justin Watts to earn some more backup minutes.

People having Bullock starting or McAdoo in consideration for ACC ROY are making the same mistake as last year evaluating guys based on HS competition.

UNC lost a lot of experience with Ginyard and Thompson plus Ed Davis early entry even though hurt a lot last year, and have to rely on improvement of last year's guys plus Barnes, more than on guys like Bullock and Marshall and McAdoo who will be good over time, but it will take time.

Someone has to lead and IMO best options appear to be the upper classmen Graves, Zeller and Drew II, the savior Barnes and the improvement from highly touted under weight Henson, with a lot of inexperienced highly talented back ups.

[madscavenger]

One thing that almost everyone seems to have glossed over is DEFENSE. Carolina doesn't stand a chance of stopping our O. Its not just that Roy's teams emphasize offense over defense, its that this year the guys who play big minutes for them will have virtually no experience defending on the college level, either individually or as a team. To date, i haven't seen evidence that any of them can even play quality defense, regardless of experience. This is not only a huge deficiency in their game, but will almost certainly disrupt any rhythm they may develop on O. It'll affect them on both ends. And, of course, they'll unquestionably be lots of other opponents exploiting this. Roys got himself one h*ll of a challenge. If they can't find some way to deal with this problem (and right now i can't think of any), and get off to a disappointing start, you can't rule out the possibility that he "loses" his team once again as well.

Oh well.

:D:D:D

[BD80]

One thing that almost everyone seems to have glossed over is DEFENSE. Carolina doesn't stand a chance of stopping our O. Its not just that Roy's teams emphasize offense over defense, its that this year the guys who play big minutes for them will have virtually no experience defending on the college level, either individually or as a team. To date, i haven't seen evidence that any of them can even play quality defense, regardless of experience. This is not only a huge deficiency in their game, but will almost certainly disrupt any rhythm they may develop on O. It'll affect them on both ends. ...

Spot on.

There hasn't been much "D" in the _ean _ome since Roy arrived.

Doubt we'll see much next year.

[jdj4duke]

i urge caution on the predictions.....let's not turn into the IC crew....

smack talk always has a way of equalling out....

To turn into the IC crew, the thoughtful and detailed analysis in the thread here (granted, with no more than normal optimism that our noble warriors will prevail against the Heels) would have to be replaced with the following comments which have all been seen in some form or fashion on IC:
1- Singler is Skeletor; he -szzzzxxx
2- Nolan Smith is ugly
3- Singler is ugly
4- they have an easy schedule (and not just the NCAA's)
5- the refs will hand them the games no matter what
6- Wojo and Collins are zzzzzz
7- (Any Duke Player-ADP) is overrated
8- ADP is a flopper
9- ADP is ugly (again)
10- UNC would never have recruited ADP
11- ADP will never make it in the NBA
12- K is of course any number of things
13- Duke cannot win outside of New Jersey (or India which was my most recent favorite)
14- Dawkins will transfer
15- Curry is not ACC caliber; he szzzzx
16- Any and all Duke players cheat as do the coaches, the University, so everyone in the world hates them since they szzzx

I think that should cover most of it. No worries that even on the most opinionated and Dark Blue tinted day will this board ever come even within sniffing distance of IC.

[airowe]

The key word for unc is balance. It applies to any number of problems facing their team this year:

Can John Henson get a forkful of Will Graves' plate of food without having his hand bitten off?

Will Kendall Marshall's slow, plodding pace take a few mph off Larry Drew's 95 mph Wild Thingesque fastballs?

Will Harrison Barnes' and roy williams' egos collide to form one giant, Michael Jordan obsessed, Dean Smith's nose size head?

[roywhite]

The key word for unc is balance. It applies to any number of problems facing their team this year:

Can John Henson get a forkful of Will Graves' plate of food without having his hand bitten off?

Will Kendall Marshall's slow, plodding pace take a few mph off Larry Drew's 95 mph Wild Thingesque fastballs?

Will Harrison Barnes' and roy williams' egos collide to form one giant, Michael Jordan obsessed, Dean Smith's nose size head?

If a teammate gets the ball to HB within 25 feet of the basket, is there much chance HB will give it up?

Will Ole Roy throw players under the bus if things don't click right away?

[COYS]

If a teammate gets the ball to HB within 25 feet of the basket, is there much chance HB will give it up?

Will Ole Roy throw players under the bus if things don't click right away?

Will the Dean Dome even be half full after the first loss and all the fairweather fans bail to avoid being on a sinking ship for a second straight year?

[Kedsy]

Carolina doesn't stand a chance of stopping our O.

While I agree with you that UNC's defense will quite possibly be a big issue for them in general next year, I also believe they'll be playing a lot of games that aren't against Duke. A great many teams are going to have only a very small chance of stopping our O in 2010-11.

[BlueThru&Thru]

Will the Dean Dome even be half full after the first loss and all the fairweather fans bail to avoid being on a sinking ship for a second straight year?

With regard to the questions posed...

Dean Dome: It will
What fairweather fans?
Sinking ship: There you go again.

Regarding disparaging remarks about Ol' Roy's coaching: 2005-2010: Roy 2; K 1 :D
____________________
In Roy We Trust

[Big Pappa]

With regard to the questions posed...

Dean Dome: It will
What fairweather fans?

Regarding disparaging remarks about Ol' Roy's coaching: 2005-2010: Roy 2; K 1 :D


I agree about the Dean Dome but...

1990-2010: Roy - 2; Coach K - 4.

[BlueThru&Thru]

I agree about the Dean Dome but...

1990-2010: Roy - 2; Coach K - 4.

Touche. But you shouldn't hold KU against him

[Duke of Nashville]

Touche. But you shouldn't hold KU against him

Bill Self has not seem to have had a problem with winning a championship at KU.

[BlueThru&Thru]

Bill Self has not seem to have had a problem with winning a championship at KU.

Took 20 yrs for KU, '88 to '08, and if I remember correctly they were one of the heavy favorites for '10 til they choked. We'll see how he does in the future. Mmmmm, let's see, makes you kinda worry about coming off of an NC season doesn't it?:)

[roywhite]

Took 20 yrs for KU, '88 to '08, and if I remember correctly they were one of the heavy favorites for '10 til they choked. We'll see how he does in the future. Mmmmm, let's see, makes you kinda worry about coming off of an NC season doesn't it?:)

Let's see....
Coming off 1991 NC...another NC
Coming off 1992 NC...loss to Cal in NCAA
Coming off 2001 NC...good year, lost to Indiana in NCAA

Now, it can be really tough to come off a 17-loss season Fortunately, Coach K hasn't had to do that since 1996, but he was able to make the NCAA tournament, and that was without all the talent of the upcoming UNC team.

[Duke of Nashville]

Took 20 yrs for KU, '88 to '08, and if I remember correctly they were one of the heavy favorites for '10 til they choked. We'll see how he does in the future. Mmmmm, let's see, makes you kinda worry about coming off of an NC season doesn't it?:)

Not exactly, we have been through similar situations like the '06 Duke team that had two pre-season All-Americans. Although we underachieved, I thought it was a hell of a year. We all have been through our ups and downs and I look forward to similar conversations 20 years from now : ).

[DukeBlueNV]

http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/977162.html

*blehh* ...I just threw up in my mouth a little bit...

But seriously some interesting tidbits about Bullock, Marshall but mostly Barnes' recruitment.... if your feel like putting yourself through it, its a good read.... considering.

[Greg_Newton]

http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/977162.html

*blehh* ...I just threw up in my mouth a little bit...

But seriously some interesting tidbits about Bullock, Marshall but mostly Barnes' recruitment.... if your feel like putting yourself through it, its a good read.... considering.


“It got to the point where me and Reggie were just like ‘All right, I wish this kid would just make a decision. Either he’s coming or not,’” Marshall laughed.

I kind of like Kendall Marshall. He seems like one of the most down-to-earth, laid-back guys they've had in a long time.

[slower]

With regard to the questions posed...

Dean Dome: It will
What fairweather fans?
Sinking ship: There you go again.

Regarding disparaging remarks about Ol' Roy's coaching: 2005-2010: Roy 2; K 1 :D
____________________
In Roy We Trust

Oh, joy. A new Hole troll to deal with.

Last year I cautioned people to overlook UNC at their own risk. Fortunately, due to some injuries and other "issues", they had a down year. Let's hope they are similarly plagued this year. But if their team stays healthy, I think they'll be a solid #2 in the league. UNC almost always has enough talent to be very dangerous. Let's try to moderate our post-championship cockiness and hope that we win One for The Thumb this year.

[BD80]

http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/977162.html

*blehh* ...I just threw up in my mouth a little bit...

But seriously some interesting tidbits about Bullock, Marshall but mostly Barnes' recruitment.... if your feel like putting yourself through it, its a good read.... considering.

I can't bring myself to give it the hit, or to read carolina stuff.

Can you parse for us the interesting tidbits that are of interest to Duke fans and carolina haters (I know, I know, redundant).

[Duvall]

Regarding disparaging remarks about Ol' Roy's coaching: 2005-2010: Roy 2; K 1 :D

March 6, 2010-present: Duke 82 - UNC 50.

[DukeBlueNV]

Can you parse for us the interesting tidbits that are of interest to Duke fans and carolina haters (I know, I know, redundant).

Honestly I would like to but it's kinda long and I really dont feel like reading it for a second time. I'll say it is worth a read if your still interested in how it all played out with Barnes. (skip to the part where it says "A STAR IS BORN" *blech*... uuh, there it went again... to just read the Barnes info). I'm sure this isnt the WHOLE story there was probably a lot of stuff Barnes and his mom along with some of the coaches involved would not want to ever get out. (Not insuating any dirty dealings, just stuff associated with Airplanes for example, to people who followed this whole thing) but there are some interesting facts I hadnt heard before.

Here's some examples I can remember. Apparently Bullock and Marshall had a huge impact in his recruitment. Which is strange to me considering he called Kyrie "his best friend". Also it says in the article that Barnes called some former players of two specific schools in the days before his commitment. He wanted some additional information and apparently Paul Pierce was one of those players. I wonder if this is insinuating that Kansas was in the final two or that he wanted some info on Roy as a coach and how he develops wings. I dunno.

Anyways there is some other interesting stuff in there... IF your up for it.

[shoutingncu]

I can't bring myself to give it the hit, or to read carolina stuff.

Can you parse for us the interesting tidbits that are of interest to Duke fans and carolina haters (I know, I know, redundant).


For the haters...


"Great players like you [Bullock] make coaches like me look good.”

Would this be throwing a player on top of the bus? At least he acknowledges that it's the players that make him look good.

DukeBlueNV is right, the article goes into some interesting details about HB. This one struck me as amusing:


Harrison Barnes would’ve loved to have a list of potential schools in 2007, but that would’ve meant there were schools interested in him.

[jdj4duke]

As for the picture of Erin Andrews and the conclusion she must be fan- I give you the undeniably Duke Blue blouse she wore in Cameron this year. You know- the one that enraged the IC faithful who found that blouse to be proof positive that she was pulling for Duke and therefore would be deserving of their most vulgar and misogynistic commentary.

I just thought it was a nice blouse that blended well with her surroundings. She clearly has a good eye for color.

[_TheFakeJWill_]

I can already tell im gonna HATE Bullock! Almost as i did Danny Green... gguurrrr

[Newton_14]

I can't bring myself to give it the hit, or to read carolina stuff.

Can you parse for us the interesting tidbits that are of interest to Duke fans and carolina haters (I know, I know, redundant).

It is a great read if you enjoy fiction. Other than that here are the money quotes:


The week leading up to the decision, while the fans were a nervous wreck and the media dissected every move, the Barnes family was busy.

On Monday, Harrison called the schools to let them know how the rest of the week was going to unfold.

And more..

On Wednesday morning, he told his mother and his sister what his decision was. On Thursday night he allowed coaches to make their final cases.

Decision made on Wednesday (actually long before but hey it sounds better this way), but has the coaches call again on Thursday to beg one last time..

And finally:

The hysteria surrounding Barnes’ decision was—ironically—a result of how professionally he handled his recruitment. There was no leak

Professionally? Really? No leak, except of course that whole photo thing with him and Roy at his home that night a few minutes after K had left from his official in-home visit

[roywhite]

Thanks for the summary, Boozer.

Pretty much the spin I imagined, and I didn't even have to read it. :)

[DukeBlueNV]

Pretty much the spin I imagined, and I didn't even have to read it. :)

What else could we expect from an article from INSIDE CAROLINA? :rolleyes:

You guys probably thought I was joking when I said it made me throw up a little bit... I wasnt. They way UNC fans/media are slopping this kid with praise is sickening. Now what's scary is if Carolina acutally is any good this year ESPN will jump on the HB bandwagon like they did with the John Wall show in Lexington. Hopefully it plays out the same as last year with some fab freshman getting all the media praise and our team flying under the radar (while being ranked #1? I guess thats possible, look at the attention Kansas got compared to Kentucky last year) then we take the championship once again while the media darling (wall/barnes) has an earlier then expected NCAA exit.

GO DUKE!

I'LL TAKE KYLE OVER HARRISON ANYDAY!

[airowe]

Would this be throwing a player on top of the bus? At least he acknowledges that it's the players that make him look good.


No one ever said roy threw recruits under the bus. Only his players. He's honorable like that. Just like how he "waits" until the 15th (tomorrow) to give offers to rising Juniors. Who will be the first to receive their promised offer?

[BlueThru&Thru]

Oh, joy. A new Hole troll to deal with.


I like it. I wish I'd heard it before I picked my screen name.:D

[kong123]

JP Tokoto was the first to receive an offer

[oldnavy]

No one ever said roy threw recruits under the bus. Only his players. He's honorable like that. Just like how he "waits" until the 15th (tomorrow) to give offers to rising Juniors. Who will be the first to receive their promised offer?

Just another example of how Ol Roy is a fake. He makes a promise to offer, which is an offer, but then he says that he will not make the offer until the 15th of June in order to comply with some unwritten gentleman's rule of recruiting. He cannot help himself can he?? He wants so badly to portray an image of a down to earth, good old boy if you will, yet everything he does reeks of insincerity. I am not even certain that he is aware of how transparent he is. I believe that he actually sees himself as a honest, good ol "mountain man". I almost have more respect for Calipari, at least he doesn't try to hide the fact that he is a snake.

[Indoor66]

Just another example of how Ol Roy is a fake. He makes a promise to offer, which is an offer, but then he says that he will not make the offer until the 15th of June in order to comply with some unwritten gentleman's rule of recruiting. He cannot help himself can he?? He wants so badly to portray an image of a down to earth, good old boy if you will, yet everything he does reeks of insincerity. I am not even certain that he is aware of how transparent he is. I believe that he actually sees himself as a honest, good ol "mountain man". I almost have more respect for Calipari, at least he doesn't try to hide the fact that he is a snake.

As progeny of the Nose, he was trained by watching the performance of THE one with a forked tongue.

[kong123]

you are really reaching. many people say the same negatives about Coach K, do you believe those people are simply hateful idiots or do you believe that they allow their fandom to affect their view of your coach? saying stuff like Oldnavy just said is basically on the same level as a post on the IC. You guys bash the IC and claim to be a superior forum, then act like it.

[whereinthehellami]

you are really reaching. many people say the same negatives about Coach K, do you believe those people are simply hateful idiots or do you believe that they allow their fandom to affect their view of your coach? saying stuff like Oldnavy just said is basically on the same level as a post on the IC. You guys bash the IC and claim to be a superior forum, then act like it.

The Kong is wrong. This place has never come close to the sewer that is IC. So don't even try to make that comparison. Good try though.

[moonpie23]

while DBR is never a sewer (as is IC) , we have certainly been inching upwards in smack talk and bravado.......


ANYONE who predicts a sweep of the other team in this rivalry is clearly ignoring history as well as the 5 star crow dinner...

I for one am relishing our championship, reflecting on their disastrous season, and their coach's shenanigans, all while keeping a watchful eye on the snake pit 8 miles south...


as one of them said, "one friggin season" could easily be reality....trust me.....if HB comes in and takes over the team in the fashion that john wall took over uk, THEIR bravado and arrogance will be back with a vengeance ....

[roywhite]

trust me.....if HB comes in and takes over the team in the fashion that john wall took over uk, THEIR bravado and arrogance will be back with a vengeance ....


Smack talk aside (hey, it's been a part of this rivalry for a long time), I think the dynamics with HB and the 2010-11 version of the Heels are interesting.

Reports from the CP-3 camp have re-inforced just what a scoring threat HB can be. With his size, range, nose for the ball, and high release, he'll be a difficult matchup for most teams. IMO, he's very likely to be the leading scorer for UNC this coming season.

Some questions are:

Will the offense be geared to maximize his abilities?
Will he quickly pick up rebounding and defense?
Will he look too much for his shot, and not share the ball?
Will the rest of the team be okay with a freshman star?
Is he a team leader, even as a freshman?

If these issues work out well for the Heels, they'll be back in contention in the conference and nationally.

[kong123]

quotes from David Telep concerning HB

"In speaking with the various people involved with the camp, Harrison Barnes couldn’t have made a better impression, and that includes the impression he made on Chris Paul.

"It was told to me that of all the guys in camp, he was the one guy who competed so hard in all the sprints, focused intently in all the drills and was the only guy who took stretching so seriously. For example, he asked to have a roller in his hotel room so he could get an ideal stretch.

"It was a very business like approach and he was obviously the best prospect in the building."

[jipops]

quotes from David Telep concerning HB

"In speaking with the various people involved with the camp, Harrison Barnes couldn’t have made a better impression, and that includes the impression he made on Chris Paul.

"It was told to me that of all the guys in camp, he was the one guy who competed so hard in all the sprints, focused intently in all the drills and was the only guy who took stretching so seriously. For example, he asked to have a roller in his hotel room so he could get an ideal stretch.

"It was a very business like approach and he was obviously the best prospect in the building."

He sounds like quite the anomaly for a UNC player. I'm sure Roy will get tons of credit for "molding" him.

[Bob Green]

....I think the dynamics with HB and the 2010-11 version of the Heels are interesting....

Some questions are:

Will he look too much for his shot, and not share the ball?

If these issues work out well for the Heels, they'll be back in contention in the conference and nationally.

I followed Harrison Barnes' last two years of high school relatively closely and he was not a ball hog. Barnes will need to make some major adjustments as he transitions to the college game, however, I do not believe he will be a loose cannon firing away a will.

Of course, I also hope I'm wrong and Coach Williams' run-n-gun philosophy influences HB's development in extreme negative fashion.

[BD80]

It is a great read if you enjoy fiction. Other than that here are the money quotes: ...

Glad I didn't read it. Doesn't seem like there was a thing I would find interesting.

What I do like is that there seems to be hope blossoming in chapel hell. But to me, it sounds like the heels still won't be able to match our intensity. HBarnes fleeing before having to play against Kyle in the CP3 camp is telling. I love the sound of hope whooshing out of the Dean Dome as we stomp the heels to the floor (a figurative reference unless Kyle channels Laettner as I suspect he might).


... Would this be throwing a player on top of the bus? At least he acknowledges that it's the players that make him look good. ...

This would be the "aw shucks" phase of the ol' roy ruse.

If everything goes well, roy will continue pump up his players, while "subtly" reminding the press of his accomplishments, like comparing a player to a past player that won a championship.

It is only when things go wrong do you see the real roy come out. With those kids riding up there so high on top of the bus, they have a nice flight path when ol' roy hits the brakes. Then they are in perfect position for when ol' roy shines his headlights on the reason for the team's failure.

And the wheels on the bus go round and round ...

[jipops]

Glad I didn't read it. Doesn't seem like there was a thing I would find interesting.

HBarnes fleeing before having to play against Kyle in the CP3 camp is telling.


Actually, the reason for this according to Dave Telep is that he left because of the start of some academic advising process going on at UNC. So I don't think him leaving early is "telling" in any way.

[billyj]

It will be an intriguing match up between Harrison Barnes and Kyle Singler. A star freshmen against a savvy senior. Other than that, I think UNC will have a hard time trying to match up with KI and Seth Curry.

[UrinalCake]

quotes from David Telep concerning HB

"...[Barnes] was the only guy who took stretching so seriously. For example, he asked to have a roller in his hotel room so he could get an ideal stretch."

That's good, because getting UNC back into the tournament will be quite a stretch.

Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all night.

[sandinmyshoes]

while DBR is never a sewer (as is IC) , we have certainly been inching upwards in smack talk and bravado.......


I'm glad someone else has been noticing this. I almost never posted on the old DBR because of the clumsy posting system. But since the change to the new format this place has been moving more and more toward being a less crowded TDD, which is itself just a less crowded IC. The only real difference between those two is the teams they cheer for.

[MChambers]

It will be an intriguing match up between Harrison Barnes and Kyle Singler. A star freshmen against a savvy senior. Other than that, I think UNC will have a hard time trying to match up with KI and Seth Curry.
And with Nolan Smith, I might add. No question that our edge against UNC will begin with our backcourt. I still expect the games to be tough, however.

[kong123]

And with Nolan Smith, I might add. No question that our edge against UNC will begin with our backcourt. I still expect the games to be tough, however.

KI and Dexter Strickland were teammates in high school, so they should be quite familiar with each other. Plus, both are lightning quick. This will be a fun to watch.

Bullock has great defensive footwork and he is long and athletic, he may be able to give Nolan a bit of trouble.

[Duvall]

KI and Dexter Strickland were teammates in high school, so they should be quite familiar with each other. Plus, both are lightning quick. This will be a fun to watch.

Well, for us anyway. The key difference is that Dexter Strickland isn't actually good at basketball.

[shoutingncu]

Well, for us anyway. The key difference is that Dexter Strickland isn't actually good at basketball.

Kind of like Nolan's freshman year?

[Duvall]

Kind of like Nolan's freshman year?

No, not really.

Smith 2008: .516 2FG, .386 3FG, 101.7 ORtg
Strickland 2010: .488 2FG, .235 3FG, 91.0 ORtg

[kong123]

we are talking about defense, not offense, your stats are irrelevant. please stick to topic.

[Duvall]

we are talking about defense, not offense, your stats are irrelevant. please stick to topic.

No, we aren't. Maybe you are, but I consider Strickland's utter lack of demonstrated offensive ability to be quite relevant to assessing his ability to contribute.

That said, it's hard to imagine any Heel guard from last year's team having much in the way of skill at perimeter defense, given the fact that last year's team did not appear capable of, you know, playing any.

[shoutingncu]

No, not really.

Smith 2008: .516 2FG, .386 3FG, 101.7 ORtg
Strickland 2010: .488 2FG, .235 3FG, 91.0 ORtg


Strickland
statsheet.com (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/north-carolina/dexter-strickland?season=2009-2010)

FG % 3P% FT% APG RPG BPG SPG PPG
43.2 24.2 69.2 1.97 1.53 0.08 0.92 5.444

Smith
goduke.com (http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/players/statlines.php?playerid=2473)
FG % 3P% FT% APG RPG BPG SPG PPG
46.7 38.6 76.9 1.3 1.5 0.10 0.50 5.9

Seemed fairly close to me (except 3 pointers), but your stats are more in depth. Mostly I just wanted you to know I had looked up some numbers and wasn't just picking a non-Kyrie player that didn't jump off the page freshman year to compare Strickland to.

[DukieInBrasil]

Seemed fairly close to me (except 3 pointers), but your stats are more in depth. Mostly I just wanted you to know I had looked up some numbers and wasn't just picking a non-Kyrie player that didn't jump off the page freshman year to compare Strickland to.

Statistically there doesn't seem to be much difference, though Strickland played roughly 2.5 more minutes per game. Their PPS are almost identical as well.
One difference is that Nolan was playing behind 4 other guards who had all earned a bit more of a role on the team. Strickland only had Drew II in front of him as a competing guard, although Graves and Ginyard were sort of G/F hybrids. This could be taken to mean that UNC needed more from Strickland than Duke needed from Nolan, and got a bit less. A lot less in the 3pt shooting department.
Strickland improved his 3pt shooting from horribly abysmal early in the year to marginally terrible by the end. He very well may have learned how to adjust to the ACC and have a respectable So. season. Nolan didn't burn up the ACC as a So., tho' he did improve, and was being asked to play out of position for most of the year.

[BD80]

Actually, the reason for this according to Dave Telep is that he left because of the start of some academic advising process going on at UNC. ...

That's funny. Not quite as funny as if that had been a Ky player's excuse, but still funny. No way that important of a meeting could ever get rescheduled to accomodate basketball. HB WANTED the excuse.

HBarnes will be so wound up about playing Singler, his first shot will probably clear the backboard.


... Bullock ... may be able to give Nolan a bit of trouble.

The same amount of trouble mile markers give southbound 18-wheelers.

[Newton_14]

I'm glad someone else has been noticing this. I almost never posted on the old DBR because of the clumsy posting system. But since the change to the new format this place has been moving more and more toward being a less crowded TDD, which is itself just a less crowded IC. The only real difference between those two is the teams they cheer for.

I hear you but will have to disagree. While we all need to tone the banter down a bit in the unc related threads, DBR is still miles ahead of TDD. I pop over to TDD on occasion and DBR is no where close to being as juvenile as it gets there. This past weekend I was on TDD and I saw post after post that would have been removed were it posted here. The mods here would ban 70% of the posters there.

But point taken and like I said, I agree with you that we need to be careful not to gravitate to that. I like giving Kong and crew grief but not to that level.

[BoozerWasFouled]

I followed Harrison Barnes' last two years of high school relatively closely and he was not a ball hog.

Barnes was remarkably deferential to his teammates. In fact, I have never seen a high school player touted as highly as Barnes defer so much to teammates on a public high school school team. He played only within the context of the Ames offense and in doing so he made his team devastatingly effective at the high school level. There is a reason they won like 80 straight games or something.

[oldnavy]

I hear you but will have to disagree. While we all need to tone the banter down a bit in the unc related threads, DBR is still miles ahead of TDD. I pop over to TDD on occasion and DBR is no where close to being as juvenile as it gets there. This past weekend I was on TDD and I saw post after post that would have been removed were it posted here. The mods here would ban 70% of the posters there.

But point taken and like I said, I agree with you that we need to be careful not to gravitate to that. I like giving Kong and crew grief but not to that level.

I will admit that I am tough on Roy Williams, and I will tone it down a bit, but I dislike dishonesty. However, I disagree that my comments sink to the level of IC. I would like for kong123 to tell me where I am wrong about my assessment of Roy. Roy promises a kid he will offer on the 15th. How is that NOT an offer? It is a game he plays to appear that he is honoring some code and just the latest in a string of actions that uncover his facade of being just an easy going country boy. Yes, many folks say many things about Coach K. Does K have flaws, certainly he does, do they compare to the actual conduct we saw from Roy this past year, not even close.

How will HB impact UNC next year. Well I believe he will be a tremendous asset. Will he be good enough and surrounded by enough talent to make them a contender in the ACC? Possibly, but we will have to wait to see how the talent comes together on the court. I believe that for a team to be very successful, they must have 3 go to players (Singler, Smith, Scheyer) in addition to role players. Who will those go to players be for UNC next year?

[roywhite]

How will HB impact UNC next year. Well I believe he will be a tremendous asset. Will he be good enough and surrounded by enough talent to make them a contender in the ACC? Possibly, but we will have to wait to see how the talent comes together on the court. I believe that for a team to be very successful, they must have 3 go to players (Singler, Smith, Scheyer) in addition to role players. Who will those go to players be for UNC next year?

I'd guess that the 3 leading scorers for UNC will be Barnes, Henson, and Zeller. Will Henson and Zeller be considered go-to guys? So far, they've had some offense of their own, but more often scored on positioning or put-backs.

One problem from last year, outside shooting, is likely to be eliminated or greatly reduced. That still leaves PG play, team chemistry, and perhaps some question of lack of physical play inside. Henson and Zeller have both lacked bulk and strength. Will Knox and possibly McAdoo help in this area?

[MChambers]

One problem from last year, outside shooting, is likely to be eliminated or greatly reduced. That still leaves PG play, team chemistry, and perhaps some question of lack of physical play inside. Henson and Zeller have both lacked bulk and strength. Will Knox and possibly McAdoo help in this area?
UNC was a turnover machine last year. I'm sure Barnes will help some, but most of the same players will be in the backcourt. Not just a PG problem, but a backcourt issue generally.

[oldnavy]

I'd guess that the 3 leading scorers for UNC will be Barnes, Henson, and Zeller. Will Henson and Zeller be considered go-to guys? So far, they've had some offense of their own, but more often scored on positioning or put-backs.

One problem from last year, outside shooting, is likely to be eliminated or greatly reduced. That still leaves PG play, team chemistry, and perhaps some question of lack of physical play inside. Henson and Zeller have both lacked bulk and strength. Will Knox and possibly McAdoo help in this area?

Cannot disagree. But I would be a little wary if I were a UNC fan, that I had to count on Zeller or Henson to be go-to guys. They may develop into those roles, but Zeller is likely to be injured at some point (hate to say that, but he is prone to it and he is still wearing those Jordan's :eek:), and even when he is not, he can be a bit of a loose cannon as far as shot selection goes. Henson, he might possibly break out, he is talented and I expect improvement over the summer. HB, well he is a freshman, but it sounds like he is going to be very solid. It could all come together for them and that is why I am waiting to see how they play early on. They will defiantly be better than last year's team, but I am not sure how much better.

[ACCBBallFan]

Remains to be seen what role ole Roy assigns to his senior William Graves (only other senior is Justin Knox). If he does what I think that team needs, and plays Harrison Barnes at SG and William Graves at WF, then the three go to guys in order would be Barnes, Graves, and Zelller.

Without Graves I really don't see a bona fide third go to guy as Henson will get pushed around, even at 210 pounds if he makes it that high. He can still be a force on defense.

This would maximize the minimal experience with Senior Graves, Juniors Drew II and Zeller though latter has two injury shortened seasons. The other two would be highly promising slightly bigger John Henson and HB to maximize the height UNC starts.

While I am not expecting a lot from freshman McAdoo his first year or Knox in his last, their addition was huge from a depth perspective which like Duke is at bare minimum with 4 guys plus a guy they could play there Barnes or Singler but don't want to have to do that.

Hard to compare front courts until we see the starters in primary roles and the backups at all, but overall pretty even there with Duke having a likely edge at the 1-2 with Irving, Smith, Curry, Dawkins, Thornton and both having outstanding 3's if that is where Barnes is slotted.

I see UNC in top tier with Duke, VA Tech due to incredibly favorable ACC unbalanced schedule plus Delaney, Allen and Hudson trio and also NC State if their frosh are ACC ready several possibilities for a trio with Tracy Smith, CJ Leslie, either Ryan Harrow, Lorenzo Brown or Scott Wood, and a stronger supporting cast than VA Tech if the Red Coat can coach them up to their potential.

[slower]

Remains to be seen what role ole Roy assigns to his senior William Graves (only other senior is Justin Knox). If he does what I think that team needs, and plays Harrison Barnes at SG and William Graves at WF, then the three go to guys in order would be Barnes, Graves, and Zelller.

We can't ignore the possibility that Bullock could make a decent contribution. After all, he WAS generally rated as a Top 10 senior last year.

Not to mention "GED" McAdoo.

[kong123]

I will admit that I am tough on Roy Williams, and I will tone it down a bit, but I dislike dishonesty. However, I disagree that my comments sink to the level of IC. I would like for kong123 to tell me where I am wrong about my assessment of Roy. Roy promises a kid he will offer on the 15th. How is that NOT an offer? It is a game he plays to appear that he is honoring some code and just the latest in a string of actions that uncover his facade of being just an easy going country boy. Yes, many folks say many things about Coach K. Does K have flaws, certainly he does, do they compare to the actual conduct we saw from Roy this past year, not even close.


i believe that the issue of actually offering a scholarship on the 15th after already telling the recruit that he will receive one on the 15th is much ado about nothing. If Roy chooses to use the date to separate the UNC offer from others then fine. Who cares? If it does differentiate it from other offers, then it works, if not, then its just a wasted effort. To me, its like asking someone if you can help them even if you know that you would have had to help anyway. Its the thought that counts. Does it make a difference? Maybe, the only one who could answer that would be the recruit. If he covets a UNC offer, then he will be truly looking forward to June the 15th.

[ACCBBallFan]

We can't ignore the possibility that Bullock could make a decent contribution. After all, he WAS generally rated as a Top 10 senior last year.

Not to mention "GED" McAdoo.

Yes, Reggie is a little higher ranked than I realized but too many halos placed on frosh. He's in between Henson 5, Kelly 14 and Mason 18 from last year

http://rscihoops.com/

and Barnes 1, Irving 4, Bullock 10, Leslie 14, Marshall 19, Harrow 23 and Hairston 27.

So you are right an inconsistency either with CJ Lelsie and Harrow or with Bullock. Not likely UNC can play all 3 of Barnes, Graves and Bullock. So Graves or Bullock as seocnd go to guy is either-or.

Not sure how consistent it is to count Zeller as a third go to guy by default and not count a Plumlee or Kelly either. Last year Zeller played 470 minutes slightly less than Dawkins 477, Mason 480 and quite a bit less than Miles 654. His frosh year Zeller played only 117 minutes compared to Marty Pocius 135 and Miles 165 and Kelly 227 last year who were considered pretty much DNP. So though Zeller is on paper a junior academically, ACC Basketball wise he is a soph.

Drew II played 1064 and 364 respectively, so more typical for a junior who has played injury free soph year and played some as a frosh. Graves in his 3 years played 874, 224 and 186. So going from Marcus 5 year guy [1009, 37, 1097, 625, 591] and Deon [995, 943, 836, 473] is taking a definite hit relative to Singler [1436, 1193 and 972] or Smith [1349, 734, 500] without even considering difference in demonstrated talent.

So the three leading UNC Minutes Played leaders each cumulatively have about the same experience as last year single season totals for Kyle or Nolan. Strickland at 623 MP and Henson at 586 are the next most experienced, and summed together thay do not add to one upperclassmen starter season total.

The UNC hope is that Drew II shows the same YTY improvement Nolan did last year.

I do think Henson playing the full year at PF rather than the WF experiment that failed is a net plus, as is whatever weight and strength gain he accrues.

But at the end of the day it is inexperienced guys scrimmaging against inexperienced guys in hopes of quantum imprivement versus playing the wily Scheyer, Lance or Zoubek, plus Singler and Smith. So the cumulative impact losing Ginyard and Thompson plus Davis [641 and 716 despite injury] after losing Hansbrough, Lawson, Ellington, Green and Frasor the year before is bigger than most UNC fans are willing to acknowledge.

[Class of '94]

Yes, Reggie is a little higher ranked than I realized but too many halos placed on frosh. He's in between Henson 5, Kelly 14 and Mason 18 from last year

http://rscihoops.com/

and Barnes 1, Irving 4, Bullock 10, Leslie 14, Marshall 19, Harrow 23 and Hairston 27.

So you are right an inconsistency either with CJ Lelsie and Harrow or with Bullock. Not likely UNC can play all 3 of Barnes, Graves and Bullock. So Graves or Bullock as seocnd go to guy is either-or.

Not sure how consistent it is to count Zeller as a third go to guy by default and not count a Plumlee or Kelly either. Last year Zeller played 470 minutes slightly less than Dawkins 477, Mason 480 and quite a bit less than Miles 654. His frosh year Zeller played only 117 minutes compared to Marty Pocius 135 and Miles 165 and Kelly 227 last year who were considered pretty much DNP. So though Zeller is on paper a junior academically, ACC Basketball wise he is a soph.

Drew II played 1064 and 364 respectively, so more typical for a junior who has played injury free soph year and played some as a frosh. Graves in his 3 years played 874, 224 and 186. So going from Marcus 5 year guy [1009, 37, 1097, 625, 591] and Deon [995, 943, 836, 473] is taking a definite hit relative to Singler [1436, 1193 and 972] or Smith [1349, 734, 500] without even considering difference in demonstrated talent.

So the three leading UNC Minutes Played leaders each cumulatively have about the same experience as last year single season totals for Kyle or Nolan. Strickland at 623 MP and Henson at 586 are the next most experienced, and summed together thay do not add to one upperclassmen starter season total.

The UNC hope is that Drew II shows the same YTY improvement Nolan did last year.

I do think Henson playing the full year at PF rather than the WF experiment that failed is a net plus, as is whatever weight and strength gain he accrues.

But at the end of the day it is inexperienced guys scrimmaging against inexperienced guys in hopes of quantum imprivement versus playing the wily Scheyer, Lance or Zoubek, plus Singler and Smith. So the cumulative impact losing Ginyard and Thompson plus Davis [641 and 716 despite injury] after losing Hansbrough, Lawson, Ellington, Green and Frasor the year before is bigger than most UNC fans are willing to acknowledge.

I remember reading somewhere here where I believe some UNC folks compared this upcoming year's team favorably to Tyler H.'s freshman year team. Even if this year's UNC team has a similar impact (and I'm not convinced that it will), Tyler's team didn't win the regular season, ACC tornament and was bounced in the second round. So I think it's wrong to expect that UNC will accomplish a lot. Will they be more competitive?? Of course they should; but this year's team does not have the luxury of sneaking up on people like Tyler's freshman year team did. Saying that, I think a lot of teams will be chomping at the bit to play UNC this year; and like you said, I think Carolina's season will hinge on how well they do early on. If they lose a lot or get blown out in games, I think their season could snowball downhill very quickly.

[BD80]

I remember reading somewhere here where I believe some UNC folks compared this upcoming year's team favorably to Tyler H.'s freshman year team. Even if this year's UNC team has a similar impact (and I'm not convinced that it will), Tyler's team didn't win the regular season, ACC tornament and was bounced in the second round. So I think it's wrong to expect that UNC will accomplish a lot. Will they be more competitive?? Of course they should; but this year's team does not have the luxury of sneaking up on people like Tyler's freshman year team did. Saying that, I think a lot of teams will be chomping at the bit to play UNC this year; and like you said, I think Carolina's season will hinge on how well they do early on. If they lose a lot or get blown out in games, I think their season could snowball downhill very quickly.

Interesting to compare HB's freshman year to The Traveling Hansbrough's 1st year (way back when he had just turned 20).

Makes one realize how ridiculous it is to compare teams.

Tyler H was a leader by example and was a tireless worker. Maybe HB is too. But TH was willing to do the work that nobody else wanted to do! TH took a lot of physical abuse, and dished out more. The heels have absolutely nothing to compare to that. Zeller is the closest thing they have to a player that can hold position in the post. Henson and HB each consider themselves to be the next Kevin Durrant, they will "slash" into the paint, but the paint ain't their home. Henson is disruptive in the post, because of his mind boggling length and his ability to get up quickly, but he will not provide the type of post defense or boxing out that TH provided.

Oh yeah, TH also had a game changing point guard. Duke is the team that has that this year.

[OldPhiKap]

UNC actually started playing pretty well in the NIT. (Seriously, not a back-hand slap). And they have a lot of good new parts. They will probably have a bunch of inconsistent play but will be a dangerous team if healthy.

I love to dump on the heels and on roy, but evil never rests. They will be in the top half of the conference, probably top third.

[moonpie23]

UNC actually started playing pretty well in the NIT.

they finished like, 67th? right?

[MChambers]

Interesting to compare HB's freshman year to The Traveling Hansbrough's 1st year (way back when he had just turned 20).

Oh yeah, TH also had a game changing point guard. Duke is the team that has that this year.

Bobby Frasor? He was the point guard Hansbrough's freshman year, if I'm not mistaken.

[BD80]

Bobby Frasor? He was the point guard Hansbrough's freshman year, if I'm not mistaken.

To quote Emily Litella: "Never mind"

In my defense, Frasor was so slow, he was still playing the 2004-5 season when Tyler started. And Lawson was so fast, he was actually playing before he arrived.

All right. Maybe it is just ridiculous when I try to compare teams.

GO DIABLOS!!! NUMBER ONE!!!

[Kedsy]

While I am not expecting a lot from freshman McAdoo his first year or Knox in his last, their addition was huge from a depth perspective which like Duke is at bare minimum with 4 guys plus a guy they could play there Barnes or Singler but don't want to have to do that.

Do you really think "4 guys plus..." is the bare minimum? Duke has played full seasons will a lot less depth than that. Or at least a lot less playable depth.


I remember reading somewhere here where I believe some UNC folks compared this upcoming year's team favorably to Tyler H.'s freshman year team. Even if this year's UNC team has a similar impact (and I'm not convinced that it will), Tyler's team didn't win the regular season, ACC tornament and was bounced in the second round. So I think it's wrong to expect that UNC will accomplish a lot.

Compared to what UNC did this past season, a 2nd place ACC finish (12-4 record), #10 national ranking, and second round NCAAT appearance is a lot.


Interesting to compare HB's freshman year to The Traveling Hansbrough's 1st year (way back when he had just turned 20).

Makes one realize how ridiculous it is to compare teams.

Tyler H was a leader by example and was a tireless worker. Maybe HB is too. But TH was willing to do the work that nobody else wanted to do! TH took a lot of physical abuse, and dished out more. The heels have absolutely nothing to compare to that. Zeller is the closest thing they have to a player that can hold position in the post. Henson and HB each consider themselves to be the next Kevin Durrant, they will "slash" into the paint, but the paint ain't their home. Henson is disruptive in the post, because of his mind boggling length and his ability to get up quickly, but he will not provide the type of post defense or boxing out that TH provided.

People aren't comparing the two because of styles of play, but because TH's freshman-year team wasn't expected to do much because it had to rely on a freshman to lead them, and the team exceeded expectations because the freshman was exceptional. HB potentially could have the same effect, even if the strengths of the team are not on the inside.


Oh yeah, TH also had a game changing point guard.

Not his freshman year, he didn't.

(Lawson didn't come until TH's sophomore year.)

EDIT: I see someone beat me to the punch on this and we're already quoting Emily Litella...

[Jeff Frosh]

I know this has been stated repeatedly, but IMHO, until Roy shows that he can coach a team that does not have a super fast game changing point guard (and I do not see such a fellow on their roster), they are not a realistic threat to challenge for any meaningful title.

[Kedsy]

I know this has been stated repeatedly, but IMHO, until Roy shows that he can coach a team that does not have a super fast game changing point guard (and I do not see such a fellow on their roster), they are not a realistic threat to challenge for any meaningful title.

I completely agree. But that doesn't mean they can't be a top 10 to 15 team, 2nd in the ACC and possibly a Sweet 16 team. Personally, I think if McAdoo comes that's about what they'll achieve. Without McAdoo knock them down a couple of notches (15 to 25 nationally, 3rd or 4th ACC).

[BD80]

... People aren't comparing the two because of styles of play, but because TH's freshman-year team wasn't expected to do much because it had to rely on a freshman to lead them, and the team exceeded expectations because the freshman was exceptional. HB potentially could have the same effect, even if the strengths of the team are not on the inside.
...

My point is that HB WON'T have the same kind of effect because he won't give the heels that which they so desperately lack - a post presence.

When Tyler Zeller is your team's "banger," it is only a matter of time before the smell of "SOFT" starts lingering around the team. Opponents will start attacking that weakness. This could be the most dunked upon team in carolina history.

I admit that Henson can block just about any floater that doesn't skim the ceiling, but I don't think he has the strength to even stop any of our guards from dunking. Imagine what Miles and Mason will do if they can get a shoulder inside of Henson in the paint.

HB may well get plenty of points and look like the second coming of Kevin Durrant. That won't get the heels through the tough conference games or tournament games. Sad thing for HB is that he may be the "last resort" and anchored in the paint as the one at least willing to try, kind of like when we played CC at center. (We would counter with Kyle at the "4").

I wonder who ol' roy will blame for the lack of toughness? Could be another fun year.

[Jeff Frosh]

I completely agree. But that doesn't mean they can't be a top 10 to 15 team, 2nd in the ACC and possibly a Sweet 16 team. Personally, I think if McAdoo comes that's about what they'll achieve. Without McAdoo knock them down a couple of notches (15 to 25 nationally, 3rd or 4th ACC).

I agree with you completely, but I believe this is their ceiling if things go well for them. Of course there is also the possibility that Roy and/or bad chemistry will cause things to not go so well for them.

[Devilsfan]

He's probably going to blame the "where" twins and I can't wait to hear him tell us that the BP disaster is nothing compared to his everyday life coaching an undermaned team of McDonald AAs.

[Kedsy]

My point is that HB WON'T have the same kind of effect because he won't give the heels that which they so desperately lack - a post presence.

When Tyler Zeller is your team's "banger," it is only a matter of time before the smell of "SOFT" starts lingering around the team. Opponents will start attacking that weakness. This could be the most dunked upon team in carolina history.

I admit that Henson can block just about any floater that doesn't skim the ceiling, but I don't think he has the strength to even stop any of our guards from dunking. Imagine what Miles and Mason will do if they can get a shoulder inside of Henson in the paint.

HB may well get plenty of points and look like the second coming of Kevin Durrant. That won't get the heels through the tough conference games or tournament games. Sad thing for HB is that he may be the "last resort" and anchored in the paint as the one at least willing to try, kind of like when we played CC at center. (We would counter with Kyle at the "4").

I wonder who ol' roy will blame for the lack of toughness? Could be another fun year.

I don't know if post presence is what will keep UNC from being a top team. I happen to agree with Frosh that it will be a lack of a lightning-quick PG. Which is the main reason people are comparing next year's UNC team to TH's freshman year -- because they had a better-than-expected year without such a PG, and with their best player being a freshman.

But you may be right about a lot of this. UNC has never been particularly imposing defensively under Roy. If McAdoo comes this year, though, I think they'll have enough weapons to outscore a lot of teams. Not Duke, necessarily, but a lot of other teams. Watching UNC is not going to be anywhere close to as fun as it was this past season.

[jdj4duke]

I know this has been stated repeatedly, but IMHO, until Roy shows that he can coach a team that does not have a super fast game changing point guard (and I do not see such a fellow on their roster), they are not a realistic threat to challenge for any meaningful title.

There are a number of UNC alums/fans who feel the same way. I had an interesting discussion with a 78 year old UNC grad last weekend whom I have known for years. He obviously has followed the Heels through a lot, and is not beset by any dislike for Duke (he actually has been complimentary to Duke and K for years).

He has enough cred with me so that I listen to what he says. And what he said last week was that Roy did such a horrible job adapting to his players last year that it was the worst coaching performance he ever saw (as a nice bonus, he said that K would have taken the UNC team to at least the NCAA regional semi's).

He also said that another year with Roy sticking to his guns in the same manner should be the end of Roy as it will be proof that he cannot change and will not adapt. Basically Roy of course and should, I agree, get a pass for 09-10, but he better "show some coaching and stop acting like a headcase in his press conferences" next year.

[Jeff Frosh]

Why do I get the strange feeling that this is the Mirecourt commons room, circa 1979?

It is interesting that people are citing different reasons why they think the Heels will not be a great team next year. That in itself is a good reason to think they won't be. As far as the comparison to Hanstravel's freshman year, one difference is that he wasn't expected to be nearly as good as he was that year, while everyone is assuming (probably with good reason) that HB is good enough to be an immediate star. So Hanstravel's freshman team exceeded expectations and had a surprisingly good year. If HB is fantastic, the Heels still have their issues next year. What happens if he does not turn out to be as good as expected?

[sagegrouse]

But you may be right about a lot of this. UNC has never been particularly imposing defensively under Roy. If McAdoo comes this year, though, I think they'll have enough weapons to outscore a lot of teams. Not Duke, necessarily, but a lot of other teams. Watching UNC is not going to be anywhere close to as fun as it was this past season.

I thought that UNC's biggest problem this past year was lackadaisical play -- "not playing hard." This shows up on not only on defense -- where it is obvious -- but on offense and in transition. I think getting the team to work hard every single play is Roy's biggest problem. I mean, if the effort isn't there for players 1 through 12, then the Heels will struggle against good teams.

I am skeptical whether freshmen can provide the leadership in terms of effort and attitude. I guess we'll see what Graves, Zeller, and Drew Two bring to the team.

I think Roy understands this; I mean, HOF must mean something. We'll see if he does when the stories about UNC practices come out in October. Look for words like "intense," "grueling," and "exhausting."

sagegrouse

[Kedsy]

Why do I get the strange feeling that this is the Mirecourt commons room, circa 1979?

It is interesting that people are citing different reasons why they think the Heels will not be a great team next year. That in itself is a good reason to think they won't be. As far as the comparison to Hanstravel's freshman year, one difference is that he wasn't expected to be nearly as good as he was that year, while everyone is assuming (probably with good reason) that HB is good enough to be an immediate star. So Hanstravel's freshman team exceeded expectations and had a surprisingly good year. If HB is fantastic, the Heels still have their issues next year. What happens if he does not turn out to be as good as expected?

I had the same strange feeling. And your point is a good one. Up until recently I was in the camp that thought HB could not possibly exceed -- or even meet -- expectations. But now, from everything I've read about him I'm thinking he'll meet them with room to spare. The idea of them also adding McAdoo, who is young but still a top 10 recruit and plays a position of need, has convinced me they're going to be good. Not ACC champ good or Final Four good, but still better than I'd like them to be.

[Kfanarmy]

UNC actually started playing pretty well in the NIT. (Seriously, not a back-hand slap). And they have a lot of good new parts. They will probably have a bunch of inconsistent play but will be a dangerous team if healthy.

I love to dump on the heels and on roy, but evil never rests. They will be in the top half of the conference, probably top third.

UNC did look better in the NIT than in the ACC regular season; however they were playing teams that were, for the most part, not NCAA tourney caliber.

[Kfanarmy]

I thought that UNC's biggest problem this past year was lackadaisical play -- "not playing hard." This shows up on not only on defense -- where it is obvious -- but on offense and in transition. I think getting the team to work hard every single play is Roy's biggest problem. I mean, if the effort isn't there for players 1 through 12, then the Heels will struggle against good teams.

I am skeptical whether freshmen can provide the leadership in terms of effort and attitude. I guess we'll see what Graves, Zeller, and Drew Two bring to the team.

I think Roy understands this; I mean, HOF must mean something. We'll see if he does when the stories about UNC practices come out in October. Look for words like "intense," "grueling," and "exhausting."

sagegrouse

I continue to believe Coach Williams kept trying to drive a square peg into a round hole: He didn't have the players for his offense, but refused to try something else for most of the season. Add to that all the injury problems they had and the season was toast. For the most part, I thought the players were trying but simply didn't have the capabilities to run and defend the way Roy wanted them to.

[kong123]

reports from the open gym today said that HB, Henson, and Bullock more than held their own against the alumni in the mock game. these games are only pickup in nature and are not as serious as an ACC game, but still fun to read about. word is, Henson has gained 30 lbs. hard to believe, but that is what they are saying.

the teams and points scored were

ROSTERS (w/stats)

White Team ---> Current Tar Heels
Harrison Barnes - 19 pts (5-7 FG, 3-5 3pt, 2-2 ft), 8 reb (3 off), 2 ast, 2 to
Reggie Bullock - 18 pts (7-9 FG, 2-3 3pt, 1-1 ft), 5 reb, 1 ast, 1 stl, 1 to
John Henson - 26 pts (9-18 FG, 0-2 3pt, 4-4 ft), 10 reb (4 off), 2 to, 4 blk
Kendall Marshall - 4 pts (2-7 FG, 0-2 3pt), 4 ast, 2 stl, 1 to
Dexter Strickland - 2 pts (1-5 FG, 0-1 3pt), 6 ast, 2 reb, 1 stl, 1 to
Justin Watts - 0 pts (0-3 FG), 2 reb, 1 ast
Tyler Zeller - 6 pts (3-10 FG, 0-1 3pt), 1 reb, 1 ast
Mike Copeland - 5 pts (2-3 FG)
Marc Campbell - 0 pts (0-1 FG)

* Will Graves (ankle) was in attendance but on crutches. Larry Drew and Leslie McDonald are not attending second summer session and therefore were not in attendance.
* Copeland and Campbell joined the White team to even out roster numbers.

Blue Team ---> Alumni
Dante Calabria - 9 pts (3 3pt)
Danny Green - 9 pts
Jackie Manuel - 0 pts
Sean May - 29 pts
Melvin Scott - 0 pts
Reyshawn Terry - 13 pts
Jawad Williams - 20 (4 3pt)

[MisterRoddy]

reports from the open gym today said that HB, Henson, and Bullock more than held their own against the alumni in the mock game. these games are only pickup in nature and are not as serious as an ACC game, but still fun to read about. word is, Henson has gained 30 lbs. hard to believe, but that is what they are saying.

the teams and points scored were

ROSTERS (w/stats)

White Team ---> Current Tar Heels
Harrison Barnes - 19 pts (5-7 FG, 3-5 3pt, 2-2 ft), 8 reb (3 off), 2 ast, 2 to
Reggie Bullock - 18 pts (7-9 FG, 2-3 3pt, 1-1 ft), 5 reb, 1 ast, 1 stl, 1 to
John Henson - 26 pts (9-18 FG, 0-2 3pt, 4-4 ft), 10 reb (4 off), 2 to, 4 blk
Kendall Marshall - 4 pts (2-7 FG, 0-2 3pt), 4 ast, 2 stl, 1 to
Dexter Strickland - 2 pts (1-5 FG, 0-1 3pt), 6 ast, 2 reb, 1 stl, 1 to
Justin Watts - 0 pts (0-3 FG), 2 reb, 1 ast
Tyler Zeller - 6 pts (3-10 FG, 0-1 3pt), 1 reb, 1 ast
Mike Copeland - 5 pts (2-3 FG)
Marc Campbell - 0 pts (0-1 FG)

* Will Graves (ankle) was in attendance but on crutches. Larry Drew and Leslie McDonald are not attending second summer session and therefore were not in attendance.
* Copeland and Campbell joined the White team to even out roster numbers.

Blue Team ---> Alumni
Dante Calabria - 9 pts (3 3pt)
Danny Green - 9 pts
Jackie Manuel - 0 pts
Sean May - 29 pts
Melvin Scott - 0 pts
Reyshawn Terry - 13 pts
Jawad Williams - 20 (4 3pt)

Well your FG's and Point Totals for Barnes, Bullock, and Henson don't agree with each other.

Going by the FGs, 3Ps, FT's....

Barnes should have 15 points
Bullock should have 17
Henson should have 22

Am I missing something?

[kong123]

Well your FG's and Point Totals for Barnes, Bullock, and Henson don't agree with each other.

Going by the FGs, 3Ps, FT's....

Barnes should have 15 points
Bullock should have 17
Henson should have 22

Am I missing something?


* Note: Scoring is one point if fouled, plus one point if free throw is made, so that's why shooting numbers won't match point totals

this is the explanation given, not sure I understand it either.

[Jderf]

word is, Henson has gained 30 lbs. hard to believe, but that is what they are saying.

I realize that you are skeptical of that, but let me further emphasize the fact that it is simply and utterly impossible to put on thirty pounds of muscle in a few months, not matter the protein diet and weightlifting regimen.

[Newton_14]

reports from the open gym today said that HB, Henson, and Bullock more than held their own against the alumni in the mock game. these games are only pickup in nature and are not as serious as an ACC game, but still fun to read about. word is, Henson has gained 30 lbs. hard to believe, but that is what they are saying.

the teams and points scored were

ROSTERS (w/stats)

White Team ---> Current Tar Heels
Harrison Barnes - 19 pts (5-7 FG, 3-5 3pt, 2-2 ft), 8 reb (3 off), 2 ast, 2 to
Reggie Bullock - 18 pts (7-9 FG, 2-3 3pt, 1-1 ft), 5 reb, 1 ast, 1 stl, 1 to
John Henson - 26 pts (9-18 FG, 0-2 3pt, 4-4 ft), 10 reb (4 off), 2 to, 4 blk
Kendall Marshall - 4 pts (2-7 FG, 0-2 3pt), 4 ast, 2 stl, 1 to
Dexter Strickland - 2 pts (1-5 FG, 0-1 3pt), 6 ast, 2 reb, 1 stl, 1 to
Justin Watts - 0 pts (0-3 FG), 2 reb, 1 ast
Tyler Zeller - 6 pts (3-10 FG, 0-1 3pt), 1 reb, 1 ast
Mike Copeland - 5 pts (2-3 FG)
Marc Campbell - 0 pts (0-1 FG)

* Will Graves (ankle) was in attendance but on crutches. Larry Drew and Leslie McDonald are not attending second summer session and therefore were not in attendance.
* Copeland and Campbell joined the White team to even out roster numbers.

Blue Team ---> Alumni
Dante Calabria - 9 pts (3 3pt)
Danny Green - 9 pts
Jackie Manuel - 0 pts
Sean May - 29 pts
Melvin Scott - 0 pts
Reyshawn Terry - 13 pts
Jawad Williams - 20 (4 3pt)


I can certainly see why Henson played well against that group. A washed up out of shape Sean May as the only post player? Henson should have had 56 points against that squad. And the guards scored 2 and 4 against Calabria and Terry??

Bring that blue team to the pickup games in Cameron and they get smoked!!:D

Thanks for the report! That is very interesting. Keep it coming..

[BD80]

... word is, Henson has gained 30 lbs. hard to believe, but that is what they are saying. ...

Easy to explain. Henson's recent weigh-in was when Sean May was nearby.

May has his own gravitational field, threw the weight reading off by 25 lbs.

[MisterRoddy]

I can certainly see why Henson played well against that group. A washed up out of shape Sean May as the only post player? Henson should have had 56 points against that squad. And the guards scored 2 and 4 against Calabria and Terry??

Bring that blue team to the pickup games in Cameron and they get smoked!!:D

Thanks for the report! That is very interesting. Keep it coming..

Agreed. Unless you guys somehow find a way to use those weird scoring rules to your own advantage :)

[-bdbd]

I just don't get all this respect here. This is a squad that went .500 in the regular season, had no chemistry, no leadership, poor effort and poor coaching. Yes, they had talent - but that just goes to show you how truly awful those other things were all year. A lot of non-BB-playing fans seem to think a team's performance is simply the sum of its parts... e.g. if 3 AA's will get you 17 wins, then 5 AA's will get you 22 wins. It simply doesn't work that way. Especially when the extra parts are inexperienced freshmen, and you've also LOST some good talent too.

Will they be better, most likely - it took some real effort for that much talent to do as bad as thery did last year! But the poor chemistry isn't magically fixed. The lack of leadership hasn't changed. Poor coaching - same. The entitled, demanding fans are still there.

Yes, there's some talent arriving -- but they already had a lot anyway... and see what it got them last year. Some real talent departed too. That said, I do see HB, even though just a frosh learning ole Huck's "system," making an impact. But the other two probably won't start - certainly not in the early season - and there's some really legit questions about whether Marshall can fit into Roys system any better than Drew-too.

This is going to be a very inconsistent squad that will lose to some less talented, but more experienced or disciplined teams. Also, some teams will mave good matchups/schemes for HB, and then who picks up the baton?? But we're looking at sub-25 wins here and maybe 2nd round NCAA exit. They should be considered incredibly accomplished if they were to make the Sweet 16.

Parting thought: Since they'll be less at season's start than season's end, how will the "entitled" fan base, and thence the team, react to some early season disappointments? Time will tell.

Should be interesting to watch. Lean toward FB this year heels faithful - that's your better bet.


:cool:

[Bob Green]

....word is, Henson has gained 30 lbs. hard to believe, but that is what they are saying.

I love off season pick up game reports. It appears John Henson has morphed into Nick Horvath.

[Kedsy]

I just don't get all this respect here. This is a squad that went .500 in the regular season, had no chemistry, no leadership, poor effort and poor coaching. Yes, they had talent - but that just goes to show you how truly awful those other things were all year. A lot of non-BB-playing fans seem to think a team's performance is simply the sum of its parts... e.g. if 3 AA's will get you 17 wins, then 5 AA's will get you 22 wins. It simply doesn't work that way. Especially when the extra parts are inexperienced freshmen, and you've also LOST some good talent too.

And some fans seem to think that every team's performance equals last year's performance plus their new guys minus the guys they lost. But it almost never works out that way. The only way this past year's performance will mean anything to UNC's next year performance is a possible lack of confidence at crunch time in big games, which is why UNC probably won't win the ACC title and probably won't advance past the Sweet 16. But everything else is still very much in play.

I assume a big difference if McAdoo is with the team or if he isn't, but if he is then a 2nd place ACC finish, a top 10 to 15 national ranking, and a Sweet 16 finish in the NCAAT is a reasonable expectation for next year's UNC team. Anyone who thinks different believes that wishing will make it true.

[oldnavy]

i believe that the issue of actually offering a scholarship on the 15th after already telling the recruit that he will receive one on the 15th is much ado about nothing. If Roy chooses to use the date to separate the UNC offer from others then fine. Who cares? If it does differentiate it from other offers, then it works, if not, then its just a wasted effort. To me, its like asking someone if you can help them even if you know that you would have had to help anyway. Its the thought that counts. Does it make a difference? Maybe, the only one who could answer that would be the recruit. If he covets a UNC offer, then he will be truly looking forward to June the 15th.

Kong, you are missing my point. It is not a who cares type of question. What I am trying to point out is that Roy makes gestures and statements to make himself appear as something he is not. The June 15th thing is used like a badge of honor by him and other UNC faithful, when in reality it is simply a game. He has offered the kid before the 15th by making the promise to offer on the 15th, yet he would claim that he doesn't offer before the 15th. That is a facade. This is just one example of him being insincere and or egocentric. Others include: Presbyterian guy, Haiti, Devon Roe, referring to himself in third person and calling out his players by name to point out how they are not doing what he tells them too, thereby diverting responsibility for poor play, yet only to make a comment about how HE has to do a better job of coaching (??) - all examples from this past year. There are many more. Point being, Roy is not what Roy deeply desires people to believe he is and I personally despise insincerity. I do not expect or really desire to convert anyone to my opinion of Roy, it is simply my opinion of him.

[kong123]

Kong, you are missing my point. It is not a who cares type of question. What I am trying to point out is that Roy makes gestures and statements to make himself appear as something he is not. The June 15th thing is used like a badge of honor by him and other UNC faithful, when in reality it is simply a game. He has offered the kid before the 15th by making the promise to offer on the 15th, yet he would claim that he doesn't offer before the 15th. That is a facade. This is just one example of him being insincere and or egocentric. Others include: Presbyterian guy, Haiti, Devon Roe, referring to himself in third person and calling out his players by name to point out how they are not doing what he tells them too, thereby diverting responsibility for poor play, yet only to make a comment about how HE has to do a better job of coaching (??) - all examples from this past year. There are many more. Point being, Roy is not what Roy deeply desires people to believe he is and I personally despise insincerity. I do not expect or really desire to convert anyone to my opinion of Roy, it is simply my opinion of him.

I am not trying to change your opinion of Roy and I know that your opinion is shared by many here on this board. It is easy to pick on someone who puts themselves out there the way Roy does. For better or worse, Roy is his worst enemy. UNC fans know this and accept it for what it is. We just hope he can recruit enough talent to win national championships and so far in his 8 or 9 years, he is doing pretty well. I am sure you can go over to the IC and read plenty of opinions of Coach K that are less than polite. Will you ever stop posting your dislike for Roy? I doubt it. Your hate of him is tied to his recent success. If he hadn't won 2 NC's in the last few years, would your dislike be this intense? I guess it is a form of flattery that you are this passionate about your feelings towards Roy. Its OK, I understand. It is as transparent as a UNC's opinion of K.

[oldnavy]

I continue to believe Coach Williams kept trying to drive a square peg into a round hole: He didn't have the players for his offense, but refused to try something else for most of the season. Add to that all the injury problems they had and the season was toast. For the most part, I thought the players were trying but simply didn't have the capabilities to run and defend the way Roy wanted them to.

I tend to agree with you. That also played into the number of turnovers they had. They simply were being whipped to play at a speed they were incapable of playing. Will this happen again? I guess that depends on how much DrewII and Strickland improve over the summer. Both are fast but cannot play well while playing fast. If they improve to the point where they are effective playing fast, they could be very good. Again, it will be a wait and see situation. They should have a better outside shooting team than last year, and that will help as well. One thing to consider is that freshmen, even really talented freshmen tend to hit a wall later in the season. If UNC is counting heavily on HB and Bullock, and Marshall, I would expect that they will loose some steam towards the end of the year and this may have serious consequences for the team.

[77devil]

I am not trying to change your opinion of Roy and I know that your opinion is shared by many here on this board. It is easy to pick on someone who puts themselves out there the way Roy does. For better or worse, Roy is his worst enemy. UNC fans know this and accept it for what it is. We just hope he can recruit enough talent to win national championships and so far in his 8 or 9 years, he is doing pretty well. I am sure you can go over to the IC and read plenty of opinions of Coach K that are less than polite. Will you ever stop posting your dislike for Roy? I doubt it. Your hate of him is tied to his recent success. If he hadn't won 2 NC's in the last few years, would your dislike be this intense? I guess it is a form of flattery that you are this passionate about your feelings towards Roy. Its OK, I understand. It is as transparent as a UNC's opinion of K.

I am a little surprised that this thread still has legs. I guess it's the interventions of the pasty blue posters from down the road and the lull that is the off season that are keeping it alive.

The critiques of Roy on this board are generally civil and rational based on his statements, actions, and behaviors. At IC, it's mostly just spewing ad hominines and expletives at Coach K. Hardly comparable. Let's settle this on the court because I couldn't give a sh*t about Roy right now. ;) (couldn't help myself.)

[moonpie23]

We just hope he can recruit enough talent to win national championships and so far in his 8 or 9 years, he is doing pretty well.

whoa......hang on there......he's recruited ONE championship team that i could have coached to the natty had i not hated their guts so much....


he recruited MANY championship-LIKE teams at kansas but failed to deliver.

remember, kong, he CO-OWNS that first title......let's not be forgetting that DOH "gave him that cakewalk" to it.....

(and uconn gave him the cakewalk to the 2nd one)

[UrinalCake]

reports from the open gym today said that HB, Henson, and Bullock more than held their own against the alumni in the mock game.

I guess that's good news for UNC fans, especially considering that a.) Last year's squad got smoked by Vanderbilt in an unofficial exhibition game, and b.) Last year's Duke squad reportedly got smoked by some Duke alumni, including Hill and Laettner. It sounds like the freshmen expect to play major roles from day one and plan on being ready.

Dante Calabria was a UNC guy that I always liked. Wonder what he's up to these days...

[airowe]

word is, Henson has gained 30 lbs. hard to believe,

I asked John how much he weighed at the TOC and he told me 209. Not sure I even believe he weighs that much. He still looks like a stick.

[MisterRoddy]

I asked John how much he weighed at the TOC and he told me 209. Not sure I even believe he weighs that much. He still looks like a stick.

That means he's gained around 10-15 pounds? I'll believe it when I see it.

[COYS]

That means he's gained around 10-15 pounds? I'll believe it when I see it.

That would be impressive to do since their season ended in April, but that is far more reasonable than 30 pounds.

[Class of '94]

And some fans seem to think that every team's performance equals last year's performance plus their new guys minus the guys they lost. But it almost never works out that way. The only way this past year's performance will mean anything to UNC's next year performance is a possible lack of confidence at crunch time in big games, which is why UNC probably won't win the ACC title and probably won't advance past the Sweet 16. But everything else is still very much in play.

I assume a big difference if McAdoo is with the team or if he isn't, but if he is then a 2nd place ACC finish, a top 10 to 15 national ranking, and a Sweet 16 finish in the NCAAT is a reasonable expectation for next year's UNC team. Anyone who thinks different believes that wishing will make it true.

I disagree with your premise about how well UNC will do for this upcoming year. Just my opinion, but with or without McAdoo I don't think UNC will have a finish 2nd in the ACC, a top 10-15 national ranking, and a Sweet 16 finish. I think that's expecting way too much out of this team and i don't think its wishful thinking. Are they going to be talented and competitive?? Yes, of course. Are they going to do better than last year's team?? Most likely. But to expect the kind of jump that you're talking about is tremendous. You're talking about a team that finished near the bottom of the ACC regular season; had an early round exit out of the ACC tournament; didn't even come close to making the NCAA tournament; and if it wasn't for playing in the NIT, would of had close to a .500 record for the year. In addition, this team still has chemistry issues that need to be resolved despite the departures of some of the so-called culprits that were creating the problems (although I don't completely buy into Thompson, Ginyard and Davis being the problem players); and they lost most of their low post scoring (in Thompson and Davis). And despite the additions of what appears to be a very good freshman class, it doesn't solve their low post scoring (even if McAdoo was to come early) and an ultra-quick point guard needs that Williams' offensive system is predicated upon. This class also does not solve their leadership issues as well. HB may be great; but he's not going to be that great to solve all of UNC's problems. You can't convince me that a team that had all of those issues plus countless more that have been mentioned by other posters can make a complete 180 in only 1 year. The only team that I can think of that did that was KY last year; but they had what Carolina doesn't........inside/outside balance and a great PG. IMO and I may possibly be the only one who thinks this, UNC would be very fortunate to finish 4th in the ACC regular season; win a game in the ACC tournament, and win a game or two in the NCAA tournament.

Personally, I think UNC will finish somewhere between 4th -6th place in the conference and make the NCAA tournament; but that's about all the credit I'll give Carolina for this upcoming season. Eventhough I hate Carolina with a passion, I have all the respect in the world for their history and their program; but I think it's expecting way too much out of this team to do so much (given their problems from the previous year) when they don't have the key pieces in the key areas that would give them the ability to possibly make that kind of huge leap in progression. Again, all of this is JMO.

[Lennies]

I realize that you are skeptical of that, but let me further emphasize the fact that it is simply and utterly impossible to put on thirty pounds of muscle in a few months, not matter the protein diet and weightlifting regimen.

I can't find a reference, but I remember Bilas putting on a *ton* of muscle between his junior and senior seasons. My friends and I used to joke about Bilas and his "steroid IV".

[BD80]

... Your hate of [ol' roy] is tied to his recent success. If he hadn't won 2 NC's in the last few years, would your dislike be this intense? I guess it is a form of flattery that you are this passionate about your feelings towards Roy. Its OK, I understand. It is as transparent as a UNC's opinion of K.

Not even close. My dislike of D'oh was as intense and he won ... um, well ... uh ... I guess you get the picture.

I despise ol' roy for being so damned two-faced. From "I don't give a sh!t about Carolina" to his drivel about his relationship with "his" kids - right before he shoves them under the bus.

IC may call K two-faced, but there is NO evidence to back it up. Sure, they can make fun of his loyalty, his connection with his players, his intensity, and even his devotion for country. But they can't come up with ol' roy like self promotion at the expense of his players. It just doesn't happen.

There is no flattery underlying my disgust for ol' roy. My disgust is admittedly heightened by the rivalry. If ol' roy were still pulling the same crap over at KU, I wouldn't even notice. My disdain for his coaching capabilities would probably remain the same as it has been since he was choking on KU's sidelines.

IC's attacks on K are clearly inspired by jealousy. I expect and accept that.

[oldnavy]

I am not trying to change your opinion of Roy and I know that your opinion is shared by many here on this board. It is easy to pick on someone who puts themselves out there the way Roy does. For better or worse, Roy is his worst enemy. UNC fans know this and accept it for what it is. We just hope he can recruit enough talent to win national championships and so far in his 8 or 9 years, he is doing pretty well. I am sure you can go over to the IC and read plenty of opinions of Coach K that are less than polite. Will you ever stop posting your dislike for Roy? I doubt it. Your hate of him is tied to his recent success. If he hadn't won 2 NC's in the last few years, would your dislike be this intense? I guess it is a form of flattery that you are this passionate about your feelings towards Roy. Its OK, I understand. It is as transparent as a UNC's opinion of K.

Once again, you missed the point. I clearly explained my dislike for Roy and it has nothing at all to do with his success. Funny thing is you even agreed with me, you stated that "Roy is his own worst enemy". Make up your mind, arguing with you is too confusing. :confused:

[kong123]

i know everything thing that you know, i just don't dwell on it as much as you do. i understand that you feel K is the greatest coach ever and i think he is a great one. i just don't feel the need to always say the same thing over and over again like you guys do concerning Roy. I guess it gives you great satisfaction to say those things, but at some point you probably should find something else to say. if not, just save yourself the trouble of typing it each time, just copy and paste it.

[oldnavy]

i know everything thing that you know, i just don't dwell on it as much as you do. i understand that you feel K is the greatest coach ever and i think he is a great one. i just don't feel the need to always say the same thing over and over again like you guys do concerning Roy. I guess it gives you great satisfaction to say those things, but at some point you probably should find something else to say. if not, just save yourself the trouble of typing it each time, just copy and paste it.

Hey give us a break, it has been a few months since Roy has had a mic in front of him. I predict new material around.... mid December or so...

[kong123]

are you in the morehead city area?

[oldnavy]

are you in the morehead city area?

OK, now you are starting to creep me out!

Where in the World is Dante?
Didn't Dante Calabria go to medical school?? One of UNC's players went on to med school, not sure which one....

[kong123]

OK, now you are starting to creep me out!

Where in the World is Dante?
Didn't Dante Calabria go to medical school?? One of UNC's players went on to med school, not sure which one....


i will search each one of you out and deal with you one at a time! you can't talk about Roy that way and get away with it!!!!!

[oldnavy]

i will search each one of you out and deal with you one at a time! you can't talk about Roy that way and get away with it!!!!!

I know that you are joking, but remember not everyone on this board shares our sense of humor. Some may actually believe you are serious! :eek:

Besides, I think we are easier on Ol Roy than the IC posters are!!

What did happen to Dante??

[BD80]

... What did happen to Dante??

Do you mean to suggest that there were levels of hell lower than unc?

[slower]

i know everything thing that you know, i just don't dwell on it as much as you do. i understand that you feel K is the greatest coach ever and i think he is a great one. i just don't feel the need to always say the same thing over and over again like you guys do concerning Roy. I guess it gives you great satisfaction to say those things, but at some point you probably should find something else to say. if not, just save yourself the trouble of typing it each time, just copy and paste it.

Probably the most ironic lack of self-awareness I've seen lately ;)

[kong123]

Probably the most ironic lack of self-awareness I've seen lately ;)

sorry you feel the need to follow me around and negatively comment on everything i say. bad night?

[slower]

sorry you feel the need to follow me around and negatively comment on everything i say. bad night?

Much like Ghostbusters, somebody has to keep the world safe from trolls. I was going to slightly modify the song "Ghostbusters" and call it "Trollbusters", but I think we'll just go with:

If there's something strange
in your neighborhood
Who ya gonna call?
GOATBUSTERS

If there's something weird
and it don't look good
Who ya gonna call?
GOATBUSTERS

I ain't afraid of no goats
I ain't afraid of no goats

;)

[-jk]

Guys, please play nice. Please don't attack posters of whatever school.

Kong has tried to rehabilitate himself from his faux pro-Duke past.

thanks,

-jk

[kong123]

Guys, please play nice. Please don't attack posters of whatever school.

Kong has tried to rehabilitate himself from his faux pro-Duke past.

thanks,

-jk

you know how tough that was for me? i couldn't continue living a lie.

[-bdbd]

And some fans seem to think that every team's performance equals last year's performance plus their new guys minus the guys they lost. But it almost never works out that way. The only way this past year's performance will mean anything to UNC's next year performance is a possible lack of confidence at crunch time in big games, which is why UNC probably won't win the ACC title and probably won't advance past the Sweet 16. But everything else is still very much in play.

I assume a big difference if McAdoo is with the team or if he isn't, but if he is then a 2nd place ACC finish, a top 10 to 15 national ranking, and a Sweet 16 finish in the NCAAT is a reasonable expectation for next year's UNC team. Anyone who thinks different believes that wishing will make it true.

So, you don't believe that the best indicator/predictor for this year's team is how they performed in the 30-or-so most recent games?? This team had a ton of problems last year, and not all of those have magically gone away. As you say, "Anyone who thinks different believes that wishing will make it true."

[Kedsy]

So, you don't believe that the best indicator/predictor for this year's team is how they performed in the 30-or-so most recent games??

No, I don't. It's not the same team.

From one of your earlier posts you implied that you play some ball yourself. Have you ever played in a pickup game where one team thoroughly dominates and demoralizes the other? And then after the game you switch the teams around, maybe trade one player on the losing team for a better player on the winning team? And all of a sudden the team that was just going through the motions and lost huge the first game is playing really well and maybe even winning the second game? But they only have one different player. I see this all the time.

In the college game, especially for a team with a lot of freshmen and sophomores like this past year's UNC team, this phenomenon occurs exponentially; a college team can and often does completely change from one year to the next, unrecognizable as the same team from the year before. Not only do they lose some players and gain others, but each of the existing players can potentially play like a whole new guy. Moreover, a player may flounder and look terrible in one role but then if he gets a new teammate (or a teammate shifts roles) he may shift roles and be wildly successful. (Like when Nolan moved from PG in 2008-09 to SG in 2009-10.)

For the 2009-10 Blue Devils, I would argue every single returning player on the team was like a whole different player from the year before. All of them improved significantly and took on different roles. There was an entirely different team dynamic. Why don't you think that could happen for UNC?

[Jderf]

For the 2009-10 Blue Devils, I would argue every single returning player on the team was like a whole different player from the year before. All of them improved significantly and took on different roles. There was an entirely different team dynamic. Why don't you think that could happen for UNC?

Yea, I think the Duke last year was the perfect example of this. On paper, it definitely looks like we actually had less than the year before, with the departure of G. But the rearrangement of personel (Scheyer to PG, Nolan to SG), the continued improvement of essentially everyone, and the injection of new role players made us a completely different team come tournament time and, dare I say, an unstoppable force. :)

[Class of '94]

Yea, I think the Duke last year was the perfect example of this. On paper, it definitely looks like we actually had less than the year before, with the departure of G. But the rearrangement of personel (Scheyer to PG, Nolan to SG), the continued improvement of essentially everyone, and the injection of new role players made us a completely different team come tournament time and, dare I say, an unstoppable force. :)

While it may have "appeared" that we had less on paper with G's departure, we were still in good shape because we had the majority of key players that were responsible for the team's successes the previous year coming back (i.e., Jon, Kyle, Nolan, and to a lesser extent Lance, Zoubs and Miles). The team was still able to build on the foundation that was established by prior teams. And most importantly, the returning key players were "upperclassmen" who had proven experience and experienced success. The 2009-2010 had strong and proven leadership.

This upcoming year's Carolina team has none of that. More over, most of their key returning players are sophmores with no proven success. Hence, this year's team will heavily rely on freshman and sophmores that still have to learn how to win the big games.

[Class of '94]

No, I don't. It's not the same team.

From one of your earlier posts you implied that you play some ball yourself. Have you ever played in a pickup game where one team thoroughly dominates and demoralizes the other? And then after the game you switch the teams around, maybe trade one player on the losing team for a better player on the winning team? And all of a sudden the team that was just going through the motions and lost huge the first game is playing really well and maybe even winning the second game? But they only have one different player. I see this all the time.

In the college game, especially for a team with a lot of freshmen and sophomores like this past year's UNC team, this phenomenon occurs exponentially; a college team can and often does completely change from one year to the next, unrecognizable as the same team from the year before. Not only do they lose some players and gain others, but each of the existing players can potentially play like a whole new guy. Moreover, a player may flounder and look terrible in one role but then if he gets a new teammate (or a teammate shifts roles) he may shift roles and be wildly successful. (Like when Nolan moved from PG in 2008-09 to SG in 2009-10.)

For the 2009-10 Blue Devils, I would argue every single returning player on the team was like a whole different player from the year before. All of them improved significantly and took on different roles. There was an entirely different team dynamic. Why don't you think that could happen for UNC?

Kedsy, I respect your insight and opinions; but I still have to disagree with your premise about this year's Carolina team. I play basketball and while you use the "switch teams and mix it up" analogy to explain your point, that analogy doesn't apply to UNC IMO for these reasons: You're adding and relying on new players that have no experience with the level of competition that they would be playing. And if you switch mixing up teams like in pick-up ball to create more competition, at least you're mixing it up with guys that have experience and understand what it takes to win. Carolina doesn't have that luxury. They'll be relying on mostly freshman and sophmores who haven't learned how to win yet. And again, the only teams that were freshman lead that I can recall make a huge turnaround from year to year were the Fab 5 of Michigan and last year's Kentucky teams. The difference with those teams compared to UNC was they had a strong balance of inside/outside players that made key contributions. I'm sorry, but Henson and Zeller (and even McAdoo) are not Webber and Howard or Cousins, Patterson and Orton; and Drew II and Marshall combined do not come close to Rose and Wall.

Could Carolina surprise and do some very big things? Possible but doubt it because they still have issues that need to be worked out.

[Jderf]

While it may have "appeared" that we had less on paper with G's departure, we were still in good shape because we had the majority of key players that were responsible for the team's successes the previous year coming back (i.e., Jon, Kyle, Nolan, and to a lesser extent Lance, Zoubs and Miles). The team was still able to build on the foundation that was established by prior teams. And most importantly, the returning key players were "upperclassmen" who had proven experience and experienced success. The 2009-2010 had strong and proven leadership.

This upcoming year's Carolina team has none of that. More over, most of their key returning players are sophmores with no proven success. Hence, this year's team will heavily rely on freshman and sophmores that still have to learn how to win the big games.

That's right. And I don't think there's any way they'll be as good as Duke last year. That's an incredibly high standard to hold for a team ;). But I do think they'll be better than UNC was last year (not quite as high a standard, if I recall), though by how much remains to be seen.

[moonpie23]

you know how tough that was for me? i couldn't continue living a lie.

you didn't seem to have much trouble starting it that way.....

[Kedsy]

Kedsy, I respect your insight and opinions; but I still have to disagree with your premise about this year's Carolina team. I play basketball and while you use the "switch teams and mix it up" analogy to explain your point, that analogy doesn't apply to UNC IMO for these reasons: You're adding and relying on new players that have no experience with the level of competition that they would be playing. And if you switch mixing up teams like in pick-up ball to create more competition, at least you're mixing it up with guys that have experience and understand what it takes to win. Carolina doesn't have that luxury. They'll be relying on mostly freshman and sophmores who haven't learned how to win yet. And again, the only teams that were freshman lead that I can recall make a huge turnaround from year to year were the Fab 5 of Michigan and last year's Kentucky teams. The difference with those teams compared to UNC was they had a strong balance of inside/outside players that made key contributions. I'm sorry, but Henson and Zeller (and even McAdoo) are not Webber and Howard or Cousins, Patterson and Orton; and Drew II and Marshall combined do not come close to Rose and Wall.

Could Carolina surprise and do some very big things? Possible but doubt it because they still have issues that need to be worked out.

Well, you might be right. But there have been lots of teams who have gone from not-so-good to very good with the addition of a hot freshman or two. For example the 2002-03 Syracuse team with Carmelo, which went from unranked NIT team to national champion with the addition of a freshman PG and an amazing wing forward. Their key returning player was sophomore Hakim Warrick, a skinny shotblocking PF who had a little bit of an underachieving freshman year. Does this all sound familiar?

(If you want to fill in the rest, their starting center, Craig Forth, wasn't nearly as good as Zeller and their other starting wing was Kueth Duany, who was about the same as Graves. Their best bench player was freshman Billy Edelin, who wasn't as highly regarded as Bullock coming out of high school.)

Now, I'm not suggesting UNC is going to achieve anywhere near as much as that Syracuse team. I have already said that I think UNC's ceiling is Sweet 16. But I will put that Syracuse team out as evidence that adding a great player to a talented underachieving team can have favorable results.

[BD80]

... For example the 2002-03 Syracuse team with Carmelo, which went from unranked NIT team to national champion with the addition of a freshman PG and an amazing wing forward. ...

... Now, I'm not suggesting UNC is going to achieve anywhere near as much as that Syracuse team. I have already said that I think UNC's ceiling is Sweet 16. But I will put that Syracuse team out as evidence that adding a great player to a talented underachieving team can have favorable results.

I was starting to get concerned and then realized that there is a huge difference, Syracuse had a good coach!

[-bdbd]

Well, you might be right. But there have been lots of teams who have gone from not-so-good to very good with the addition of a hot freshman or two. For example the 2002-03 Syracuse team with Carmelo, which went from unranked NIT team to national champion with the addition of a freshman PG and an amazing wing forward. Their key returning player was sophomore Hakim Warrick, a skinny shotblocking PF who had a little bit of an underachieving freshman year. Does this all sound familiar?

(If you want to fill in the rest, their starting center, Craig Forth, wasn't nearly as good as Zeller and their other starting wing was Kueth Duany, who was about the same as Graves. Their best bench player was freshman Billy Edelin, who wasn't as highly regarded as Bullock coming out of high school.)

Now, I'm not suggesting UNC is going to achieve anywhere near as much as that Syracuse team. I have already said that I think UNC's ceiling is Sweet 16. But I will put that Syracuse team out as evidence that adding a great player to a talented underachieving team can have favorable results.

Thanks Class-of-94 -- probably better explained than I did. Kedsey, everyone agrees that there are exceptional players who come in and "completely turned around" the occasional program - though I might argue that Carmelo did enter a team that was already quite talented - but to be fair he did have an obvioius impact - however that isn't the norm. And by definition those players/situations are "the exception." My time at Duke dates back to the eary 80's, as K was arriving. With each recruiting success and year of experience those teams generally improved -- BUT THEY MOST CERTAINLY DID NOT TURN EVERYTHING AROUND OVERNIGHT. With the departure of Gene Banks, Kenny Dennard, Emma, England, Vince Taylor things were pretty bleak. And even with K's stunning recruiting success his second year - arguably the best recruiting class in the country (Dawkins, Alarie, Bilas, etc) - coming into a weak situation, we still were pretty bad for their first year (or two) in Durham. My old-guy memory seems to recall about 11 wins even with that talented freshman class. But each year K brought in another piece of the puzzle, and very importantly these guys gained experience and time playing together, and in K's system. And each year they'd win a handful of more games than the year before, and made, then progressed, further in the NCAAT. But it wasn't until their 4th year together, and with the added pieces of Amaker, Ferry, etc., that they finally had the big breakthrough year of 1986.

Quite possibly, if he sticks around long enough, HB and gang can have a similar impact at UNC. But to use your pickup game analogy, 3/4 of this group is still the same guys who won 15 reg season games, stopped trying frequently, played little or no defense, and so-on. Moreover, while they've brought in three YOUNG, talented guys, they've also LOST a significant amount of talent too.

I don't think anyone here expects another 15-win season in Chapel Hill. But to ignore the preceding year's performances, for a team that is mostly still there, isn't reasonable while making predictions. Expect more wins, sure, but NOT like 10+ like some here seem to be thinking. There's still too many problems there that haven't had time to change out, grow, transfer or whatever.

Should be fun to watch next year. Personally I don't think that is the most patient of fan bases to put up with young guys developing over time...

We'll see....

:D

[oldnavy]

Loved the comment about Syracuse having a good coach. Beat me to the punch. How will Roy handle this group? That is a very good question. He screwed up last years team, no one can make a rational argument against that fact. Will he screw this team up as well?

I actually agree with both sides of this argument. I think last years squad and performance will have some impact on this years team. Now it may actually be a positive impact, in that they are hungry to win after losing so much. It may also have a negative impact in that if they get a few early season loses, they start to think, here we go again. This is where Roy comes in. Can he motivate them in the positive direction? Or will he pull the same antics he did last year? Well since I have never witnessed him motivate players beyond their natural abilities, I would have to guess that he is unable or unwilling to do so.

The other side of the coin is, this is a totally new team. Yes many players are the same, but the chemistry is going to be totally different, and they have talent in areas they did not last year. So, outside of the psyche remnants, I think this is a totally different team. Leadership both on the bench and on the floor (PG) is the HUGE question mark for me regarding this squad.

[sandinmyshoes]

That is a very good question. He screwed up last years team, no one can make a rational argument against that fact.


I believe he did not so much screw up that team, as he failed to develop it. Two different things. In Williams' defense, injuries at the very least hampered any attempts to build a cohesive team. That's what worries me most, that we are deluding ourselves into thinking it was all about his poor coaching, underachieving players, malcontents and so forth.

Trying to observe it objectively, I have to admit that injuries were probably as great a culprit, probably the main culprit, in their struggles last year. I just imagined our team with players mirroring the position and importance to their team being injured. I would not have liked that. Not at all.

In the end, Jon probably exceeded expectation at the point for us, while Drew failed to improve sufficiently for them. Throw in a nightmarish injury situation and you get their season.

I think we will be better than they are, if everyone stays healthy and player development is about equal. We should sweep them. We are deep, talented and experienced. But injuries happen, and player development is rarely predictable.

I think UNC fans should worry most what that season did to the psyche of their returning players. They might still suffer from a lack of confidence, or they might become a determined and battle hardened group.

[Class of '94]

I believe he did not so much screw up that team, as he failed to develop it. Two different things. In Williams' defense, injuries at the very least hampered any attempts to build a cohesive team. That's what worries me most, that we are deluding ourselves into thinking it was all about his poor coaching, underachieving players, malcontents and so forth.

Trying to observe it objectively, I have to admit that injuries were probably as great a culprit, probably the main culprit, in their struggles last year. I just imagined our team with players mirroring the position and importance to their team being injured. I would not have liked that. Not at all.

In the end, Jon probably exceeded expectation at the point for us, while Drew failed to improve sufficiently for them. Throw in a nightmarish injury situation and you get their season.

I think we will be better than they are, if everyone stays healthy and player development is about equal. We should sweep them. We are deep, talented and experienced. But injuries happen, and player development is rarely predictable.

I think UNC fans should worry most what that season did to the psyche of their returning players. They might still suffer from a lack of confidence, or they might become a determined and battle hardened group.

I agree to a point about injuries being a factor; but I don't think it was a main cause for their entire season. They were bad for a majority of the season before they lost Zeller, Davis and a Wear twin for games. And while I also agree that injuries can play a part in affecting a team's cohesiveness, you can overcome most of that with good coaching. Something UNC lacked last year. There were plenty of Duke teams that had major injuries during the season and were still able to be successful.....Hurley's broken foot in 1992 when we repeated as Nat Champs; Boozer breaking his foot in 2001 and we still won a NC; and the range of injuries we had with Nelson (foot), Zoubs (feet) and G Henderson (wrist). I'm still convinced the 2006 team with Sheldon and JJ would have went to the final 4 if Demarcus was injured and had lost their 3 scorer for a key portion of the season. Saying that, they still won the ACC regular season and tournament and made it to the Sweet 16.

Coaching or lack thereof was definitely the major reason why UNC underachieved last year.

[BD80]

Actually a fun article about HBarnes from Goodman:

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/barnes-will-be-big-boost-to-tar-heels

Fun because it hints at the desperation in chapel hell, suggesting that carolina needs HB to be the next Kobe :rolleyes:

Fun because it reveals that HB couldn't watch Duke win the NC

Fun because HB was concerned he would be at the 4 after the Wears left

Fun because HB is fretting over being a frat boy (bad news - he will wait until next year to choose)

Fun because he says stupid things like: "And I think we’ll be chasing a national championship”

The build up is just perfect ...


for a really long fall :D

[Class of '94]

Actually a fun article about HBarnes from Goodman:

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/barnes-will-be-big-boost-to-tar-heels

Fun because it hints at the desperation in chapel hell, suggesting that carolina needs HB to be the next Kobe :rolleyes:

Fun because it reveals that HB couldn't watch Duke win the NC

Fun because HB was concerned he would be at the 4 after the Wears left

Fun because HB is fretting over being a frat boy (bad news - he will wait until next year to choose)

Fun because he says stupid things like: "And I think we’ll be chasing a national championship”

The build up is just perfect ...


for a really long fall :D

Does this mean that he's a lock to come back for his sophmore year at Carolina so that he can join a fraternity? :)

On a more serious note, I was a little surprises that he supposedly couldn't watch the NC game with Duke since he said in the past that he had a tight bond with Coach K. You'd think that if it was true, he would still support and root for Coach K. If he wasn't before, he is now officially Public Enemy No. 1 for Duke fans with his arrival on UNC's campus. And for the record, I think HB is a good kid; but I will root against and despise him with a passion just because.....He's a part of the Tarholes......

[-bdbd]

Loved the comment about Syracuse having a good coach. Beat me to the punch. How will Roy handle this group? That is a very good question. He screwed up last years team, no one can make a rational argument against that fact. Will he screw this team up as well?

I actually agree with both sides of this argument. I think last years squad and performance will have some impact on this years team. Now it may actually be a positive impact, in that they are hungry to win after losing so much. It may also have a negative impact in that if they get a few early season loses, they start to think, here we go again. This is where Roy comes in. Can he motivate them in the positive direction? Or will he pull the same antics he did last year? Well since I have never witnessed him motivate players beyond their natural abilities, I would have to guess that he is unable or unwilling to do so.

The other side of the coin is, this is a totally new team. Yes many players are the same, but the chemistry is going to be totally different, and they have talent in areas they did not last year. So, outside of the psyche remnants, I think this is a totally different team. Leadership both on the bench and on the floor (PG) is the HUGE question mark for me regarding this squad.

Thanks old Navy. Reasonable points all, with one main disagreement. :-)
Obviously "this is a totally new team" isn't really a true statement. 3/4 of the players (and all of the experienced players), and all the coaches/staff, are all the same. They are NOT starting with a clean slate as if the were a brand new pick-up game squad. Most of these guys and coached spent the past year not trusting each other, not making full efforts, not playing D, squabbling, etc, etc. There are a lot of bad habits and attitudes would need to be undone, and that can't just be waived away.

Can they suddenly become a great defensive squad. Maybe. Can they start playing cohesively, coimmunicating and supporting each other? It is possible. Can the PG play turn around (or Marshall solve all of those problems)? Well, anything's possible. Will the experienced upperclassmen who fought so much now provide good mentoring to the rookies? I guess it is conceivable. But I just don't see it as likely that ALL of those things can turn around all at once. Especially not with the inflexible Coach Roy at the helm.

To use another Duke analogy, think about to the disaster of '96. The next year we got some new talent and got our great coach back. But teams build and develop from the foundation/learnings/experience of the year before. So K was able to get significant improvement one year to the next, but we were NOT a great or top-10 caliber team in '97. It took 2-3 years to really get back near to where we'd been. I remember K making comments on several occasions about the importance of having good, experienced upperclassmen to teach the young guys good practice and play habits, crunch time play, winning attitudes, etc. There are always exceptions, with super talents who can pull a entire squad onto their backs - like 'melo did with the 'cuse - but I just wouldn't usually be predicting that to happen.

Cheers!
:D


P.S. Agree with Sandinmyshoes re Roy not generally "screwing up" the 09-10 NC squad, though I see the injuries point as long-since becoming too much a crutch for NC apologists (not referring to Sand there), but Huck certainly didn't do much to fix the problems that were there. And some of his antics did only made things worse. His poor performance last year is at least part of what makes me so confident that they won't totally turn it around so quickly...

[sandinmyshoes]

I agree to a point about injuries being a factor; but I don't think it was a main cause for their entire season. They were bad for a majority of the season before they lost Zeller, Davis and a Wear twin for games. And while I also agree that injuries can play a part in affecting a team's cohesiveness, you can overcome most of that with good coaching. Something UNC lacked last year. There were plenty of Duke teams that had major injuries during the season and were still able to be successful.....Hurley's broken foot in 1992 when we repeated as Nat Champs; Boozer breaking his foot in 2001 and we still won a NC; and the range of injuries we had with Nelson (foot), Zoubs (feet) and G Henderson (wrist). I'm still convinced the 2006 team with Sheldon and JJ would have went to the final 4 if Demarcus was injured and had lost their 3 scorer for a key portion of the season. Saying that, they still won the ACC regular season and tournament and made it to the Sweet 16.

Coaching or lack thereof was definitely the major reason why UNC underachieved last year.

I guess we just disagree. Taking various teams and pointing out injuries has a limited validity. You have to also compare other factors, like senior leadership, overall experience or the lack of such.

I've never been sold on Williams as a game coach. He's not bad in that area, just not at the elite level of someone like Coach K, or Bobby Knight, or Dean Smith, or Wooden etc. But he was pretty good with limited talent at KU very early in his career there. And he has always been pretty good at developing a team as the season wore on.

When I look at what happened to UNC last year, I can easily see that each time the team showed some signs of progress, they'd lose a player. I also remember that we were tied with them fairly late in the game at Chapel Hill when Ed Davis went down.

When I look at us last year, I remember that we didn't exactly blow through the regular season and NCAA like an unstoppable force. I think that is what made it such a satisfying season, the guys scrapped and clawed their way to being champions. Just a bad call here, a funny bounce there and we might not have attained those goals, but we had the luck, talent and most of all grit to get it done.

That experience gives us a clear edge in the ACC, and puts us in as good a shape as anybody in the NCAA, but each season brings a new set of challenges and opportunity. That includes teams like UNC that stumbled badly the year before.

I give us the edge, but I think some of us are being a little too confident. My concern with that is how our fans will overract should we have some significant stumbles (or should UNC actually end up a better team at the end of the season). This board isn't so bad, but fans in general would go ballistic. I wouldn't want to have any part of reading TDD in such an event.

[sandinmyshoes]

Harrison Barnes leaves me in a quandry. I actually think the best (likely) thing for us would be that he average in the high teens in scoring and have a near double-double average in scoring and rebounds.

While I think that would make UNC an NCAA team, it would probably mean that he's carrying too much of the load for them to be a top ten team. And at the end of the season, the NBA execs would be so hungry for him it would seem unlikely he could resist being a top three, possibly the top choice in the draft.

[slower]

Harrison Barnes leaves me in a quandry. I actually think the best (likely) thing for us would be that he average in the high teens in scoring and have a near double-double average in scoring and rebounds.

While I think that would make UNC an NCAA team, it would probably mean that he's carrying too much of the load for them to be a top ten team. And at the end of the season, the NBA execs would be so hungry for him it would seem unlikely he could resist being a top three, possibly the top choice in the draft.

And then he'll miss out on the experience of either jumping into a tub of frozen peas or getting branded (actual results are dependent on which frat he would choose)

[Bob Green]

Actually a fun article about HBarnes from Goodman:



This is the line I most agree with in the article:


They will also need either for Larry Drew II to make a significant leap in the offseason or for freshman floor leader Kendall Marshall to be able to make an immediate impact.

Harrison Barnes will most likely be very good as a freshman and Reggie Bullock will be a second perimeter scoring threat, however, in the final analysis, Carolina's success or failure in 2010-11 rest on the shoulders of Larry Drew II and/or Kendall Marshall.

[Big Pappa]

Harrison Barnes will most likely be very good as a freshman and Reggie Bullock will be a second perimeter scoring threat, however, in the final analysis, Carolina's success or failure in 2010-11 rest on the shoulders of Larry Drew II and/or Kendall Marshall.

Good point. Also, they will need to find an inside presence from Zeller and/or a bulked up Henson. I'm eager to see the match-up between them and the Plumlees.

[Bob Green]

Good point. Also, they will need to find an inside presence from Zeller and/or a bulked up Henson. I'm eager to see the match-up between them and the Plumlees.

I believe we have the advantage at every position in 2010-11. Starting at the wing with the heralded Harrison Barnes, who will be very good and any Duke fan who says different is in denial. Additionally, Will Graves is a streaky shooter who can really shoot when he is hot. Unfortunately for the Heels, he doesn't seem to be able to do anything else. However, senior and Final Four MOP Kyle Singler provides the Blue Devils with a clear advantage at the position which will be the Tar Heels strongest. Andre Dawkins will see some time at the wing in relief of Singler and proved in the ACC and NCAA tournaments that he can get the job done.

Moving on to point guard, our freshman Kyrie Irving is better than their freshman Kendall Marshall while our senior Nolan Smith is a lot better than their junior Larry Drew II. We also have Seth Curry and Tyler Thornton while the Heels have Dexter Strickland who was not impressive last season. A major advantage to the Blue Devils at point.

At shooting guard, Duke is loaded with Nolan Smith, Seth Curry, and Andre Dawkins. Carolina has freshman Reggie Bullock, Dexter Strickland, and Leslie McDonald. Those three aren't going to strike fear in the hearts of opponents so Duke is clearly more talented and experienced at the 2-guard. I expect Reggie Bullock to be good but he will not be as good as Smith, Curry, or Dawkins.

Moving to the front court, Carolina is thin with Zeller and Henson needing to stay healthy and consistently out of foul trouble. I expect Harrison Barnes and Will Graves to see some time at power forward as Carolina is forced to go small. Personally, I'm in the camp that believes the more time Will Graves spends on the court the better for Carolina's opponent, especially a deep and talented opponent such as Duke. With Zeller and Henson available and playing well, Duke is in good shape countering with Plumlee and Plumlee, plus Ryan Kelly and Josh Hairston. I've said it before so I'll say it again, the continued development and play of Miles and Mason might be the most important key to success for Duke next season. Miles Plumlee is a guy who has steadily improved since arriving in Durham and I expect he will be more than solid in the post as a junior. Mason Plumlee is a guy who will really benefit from Duke playing a more uptempo style. Once again, Duke is clearly superior to Carolina which completes the wrap at all five positions.

Okay, I got a little long winded but really felt compelled to voice my opinion that Duke will be the team to beat in the ACC and the nation next season, while Carolina is a team that should be in the Top 25 if a couple of things go right such as staying healthy, the freshman are as good as predicted, and someone figures out how to play point guard, however, the Heels could be looking at another long disappointing season if a thing or two go wrong.

[DevilHorns]

Just took my sights over to InsideCarolina... they have a thread on Marcus Ginyard getting a look by the Bobcats. Here are some highlights from some of the UNC fans over there:

"How DID Marcus ever get the reputation as a defensive stopper?"

"I didn't know the cheerleading squad allowed men to try out."

"Hate to say it..."That resume as North Carolina's defensive stopper didn't open many doors."

"Because he couldn't do anything else well so they just labeled him as that? Not even close to the level of Jackie. So glad Ginyard has played his final game for the Heels."

To be fair, there are some fans over there telling their peers to shut up, but wow.... these new heels better deliver, or they'll be forever ridiculed by such disrespecting lowlife fans.

[-jk]

Just took my sights over to InsideCarolina... they have a thread on Marcus Ginyard getting a look by the Bobcats. Here are some highlights from some of the UNC fans over there:

"How DID Marcus ever get the reputation as a defensive stopper?"

"I didn't know the cheerleading squad allowed men to try out."

"Hate to say it..."That resume as North Carolina's defensive stopper didn't open many doors."

"Because he couldn't do anything else well so they just labeled him as that? Not even close to the level of Jackie. So glad Ginyard has played his final game for the Heels."

To be fair, there are some fans over there telling their peers to shut up, but wow.... these new heels better deliver, or they'll be forever ridiculed by such disrespecting lowlife fans.

And no Duke fan here called for Lance and Zoubs to sit as they had already maximized their potential or were stifling the MPs. Fortunately, K doesn't take direction from us.

-jk

[Bob Green]

And no Duke fan here called for Lance and Zoubs to sit as they had already maximized their potential or were stifling the MPs. Fortunately, K doesn't take direction from us.

-jk

Exactly! Something along the lines of the pot calling the kettle black. DBR has its moments just like any other message board. Thankfully for all of us our moments are fewer and farther between than IC.

[Duvall]

Just took my sights over to InsideCarolina... they have a thread on Marcus Ginyard getting a look by the Bobcats. Here are some highlights from some of the UNC fans over there:

"How DID Marcus ever get the reputation as a defensive stopper?"

"I didn't know the cheerleading squad allowed men to try out."

"Hate to say it..."That resume as North Carolina's defensive stopper didn't open many doors."

"Because he couldn't do anything else well so they just labeled him as that? Not even close to the level of Jackie. So glad Ginyard has played his final game for the Heels."

To be fair, there are some fans over there telling their peers to shut up, but wow.... these new heels better deliver, or they'll be forever ridiculed by such disrespecting lowlife fans.

True, but...

how DID Ginyard get a reputation as a defensive stopper?

[DevilHorns]

And no Duke fan here called for Lance and Zoubs to sit as they had already maximized their potential or were stifling the MPs. Fortunately, K doesn't take direction from us.

-jk

I must admit, there were times that I as a fan was disappointed in the coaching strategy regarding playing time given to Zoubs and Lance (not this year really, but previous years). Its one thing to question strategy, and another to attack a player's abilities, effort, etc, especially one who has played 5 years for a team and has now officially finished his college career.

I'm sure there are Duke fans that may behave similarly as those on IC (no fanbase is immune!), but I must say that at least on forums or blogs when I see a poster go out of line in disrespecting players, they tend to be on their own. It's rare to see the group feed on each other in this fashion. They had a pretty rough year last year and the true colors of many of their fans have bled out. It's easy to cheer for a winner, but cheering only when the team is great does not make a fan.

[BD80]

True, but...

how DID Ginyard get a reputation as a defensive stopper?

There was a sequence when he got lost in the defensive rotation, stopped in the paint to find his man, and got steamrolled by an opponent who was amazed to see a tar hell take contact in the paint. It was the one charge taken by a heel in the last five years. Thus the label.

[oldnavy]

Thanks old Navy. Reasonable points all, with one main disagreement. :-)
Obviously "this is a totally new team" isn't really a true statement. 3/4 of the players (and all of the experienced players), and all the coaches/staff, are all the same. They are NOT starting with a clean slate as if the were a brand new pick-up game squad. Most of these guys and coached spent the past year not trusting each other, not making full efforts, not playing D, squabbling, etc, etc. There are a lot of bad habits and attitudes would need to be undone, and that can't just be waived away.

Can they suddenly become a great defensive squad. Maybe. Can they start playing cohesively, coimmunicating and supporting each other? It is possible. Can the PG play turn around (or Marshall solve all of those problems)? Well, anything's possible. Will the experienced upperclassmen who fought so much now provide good mentoring to the rookies? I guess it is conceivable. But I just don't see it as likely that ALL of those things can turn around all at once. Especially not with the inflexible Coach Roy at the helm.

To use another Duke analogy, think about to the disaster of '96. The next year we got some new talent and got our great coach back. But teams build and develop from the foundation/learnings/experience of the year before. So K was able to get significant improvement one year to the next, but we were NOT a great or top-10 caliber team in '97. It took 2-3 years to really get back near to where we'd been. I remember K making comments on several occasions about the importance of having good, experienced upperclassmen to teach the young guys good practice and play habits, crunch time play, winning attitudes, etc. There are always exceptions, with super talents who can pull a entire squad onto their backs - like 'melo did with the 'cuse - but I just wouldn't usually be predicting that to happen.

Cheers!
:D


P.S. Agree with Sandinmyshoes re Roy not generally "screwing up" the 09-10 NC squad, though I see the injuries point as long-since becoming too much a crutch for NC apologists (not referring to Sand there), but Huck certainly didn't do much to fix the problems that were there. And some of his antics did only made things worse. His poor performance last year is at least part of what makes me so confident that they won't totally turn it around so quickly...

You are correct about returning players and coaches and that in fact it is not an all new team. But I have to stick with my belief that when you take a couple of players away and add a couple, the make up of the team and the chemistry of the team can change dramatically. Often the change you see is greater than the sum of the additions and deletions. Maybe it is just semantics, but I look at each year as a "new" team.

Now with regard to Roy. I honestly believe he screwed up what could have been a solid NCAA team. His mental games, his substitution patterns, his insistence on forcing play at a speed that his PG and other players could not play are the examples I point to. Yes, he had injuries, but he still could have had a MUCH better year than he did. Again, maybe it is just semantics, but I view last year as a coaching disaster for Ol Roy.

Now, lastly - I am always amazed that people consider Roy an "ok" or "not bad" game coach. He is awful at in-game coaching. Just look back at the Georgetown game a few years back, when UNC clanked 22 of 23 shots down the stretch in that loss. Hansbrough hardly even touched the ball during that period and Roy stood there watching with that dumbfounded look on his face. Or how about the blowout against KU a couple of years back, again standing there without a clue as to what to do or when to call a timeout. Even last year, on a rare occasion when Ginyard was actually contributing something (sorry forget the specific game), Roy yanks him out at the height of his production and cools him on the bench. The heels lose the momentum and then the game. His substitution pattern disrupted many games and prohibited development of continuity over the course of the season. No offense to my Duke brothers and sisters, but Roy is not a "good", "OK", or "not bad" in-game coach. He stinks at it.

[BlueThru&Thru]

You are correct about returning players and coaches and that in fact it is not an all new team. But I have to stick with my belief that when you take a couple of players away and add a couple, the make up of the team and the chemistry of the team can change dramatically. Often the change you see is greater than the sum of the additions and deletions. Maybe it is just semantics, but I look at each year as a "new" team.

Now with regard to Roy. I honestly believe he screwed up what could have been a solid NCAA team. His mental games, his substitution patterns, his insistence on forcing play at a speed that his PG and other players could not play are the examples I point to. Yes, he had injuries, but he still could have had a MUCH better year than he did. Again, maybe it is just semantics, but I view last year as a coaching disaster for Ol Roy.

Now, lastly - I am always amazed that people consider Roy an "ok" or "not bad" game coach. He is awful at in-game coaching. Just look back at the Georgetown game a few years back, when UNC clanked 22 of 23 shots down the stretch in that loss. Hansbrough hardly even touched the ball during that period and Roy stood there watching with that dumbfounded look on his face. Or how about the blowout against KU a couple of years back, again standing there without a clue as to what to do or when to call a timeout. Even last year, on a rare occasion when Ginyard was actually contributing something (sorry forget the specific game), Roy yanks him out at the height of his production and cools him on the bench. The heels lose the momentum and then the game. His substitution pattern disrupted many games and prohibited development of continuity over the course of the season. No offense to my Duke brothers and sisters, but Roy is not a "good", "OK", or "not bad" in-game coach. He stinks at it.

I agree with parts of this of this post. Last year was an aberration and I agree that something was amiss in the chemistry, coach included. The injuries didn't help either. But the latter part of the analysis is unfair and flies in the face of the facts. I suppose that Duke has never had a game where nothing goes right and the shots are all clanging. Come on. And as for being a really terrible game coach...Facts is facts: Ol Huck has brought home 2 NC's out of the last 6 and I'll bet that happens again sooner than later. With those stats, I'll take that bad in-game coaching any day. :D

[oldnavy]

I agree with parts of this of this post. Last year was an aberration and I agree that something was amiss in the chemistry, coach included. The injuries didn't help either. But the latter part of the analysis is unfair and flies in the face of the facts. I suppose that Duke has never had a game where nothing goes right and the shots are all clanging. Come on. And as for being a really terrible game coach...Facts is facts: Ol Huck has brought home 2 NC's out of the last 6 and I'll bet that happens again sooner than later. With those stats, I'll take that bad in-game coaching any day. :D

There hasn't been a game in the past 30 years where the shots were clanking off the rim, that Coach K didn't at least call a time out or set up a play to get the ball to his AA post player. Winning 2 NC doesn’t mean he is a good in game coach. What if he should have won 5 with the talent he had at KU and UNC?? I didn't say he was unsuccessful or even that he was a bad overall coach, but tell me ONE time you saw Roy make a strategic move that helped his team win a game, much less a big game. Just one example... OR for that matter, name ONE program that he has been at that has been noticeably improved by his coaching. KU? UNC? One could argue that they both were as good as they are now before he took them over. He didn't ruin them, but has he improved them??? Maybe he has and I am just totally blind to it. I can name you many, many cases of where K has made impacts in games and 2 programs (Duke, USA)...

[BlueThru&Thru]

There hasn't been a game in the past 30 years where the shots were clanking off the rim, that Coach K didn't at least call a time out or set up a play to get the ball to his AA post player. Winning 2 NC doesn’t mean he is a good in game coach. What if he should have won 5 with the talent he had at KU and UNC?? I didn't say he was unsuccessful or even that he was a bad overall coach, but tell me ONE time you saw Roy make a strategic move that helped his team win a game, much less a big game. Just one example... OR for that matter, name ONE program that he has been at that has been noticeably improved by his coaching. KU? UNC? One could argue that they both were as good as they are now before he took them over. He didn't ruin them, but has he improved them??? Maybe he has and I am just totally blind to it. I can name you many, many cases of where K has made impacts in games and 2 programs (Duke, USA)...

You know, this is nearly an impossible debate to resolve. All you can do is go by records. True, Roy didn't get an NC at KU. Did he improve it after Larry Brown left? Who can say what KU would have done with a different coach. Applies to Self also. Is he a bad coach because he choked a probable NC winner last year? I think not. Roy certainly made KU perennial contenders. Some really good coaches don't win any NC's. Others wax and wane in their success. Look at Coach K. He was really rolling in getting the 2NC's in 91-92. Then languished for nearly 10 years before he got another. Then it took almost another 10 yrs to repeat. AND NO ONE, would disagree that he is one of the best to coach the college game. So OK, UNC has a really bad year following a mass exodus after a NC. So now, Ol' Roy's coaching is questionable? Ol' Roy can recruit and he can coach. And wane will soon wax.

[Cockabeau]

Put me into the camp that think Roy is a subpar coach. To begin with, ole Roy struck gold when he got Lawson,Felton,Hansbourough and May to stay 3 years relatively close together-classwise. That is not likely to happened ever again...to get experienced talent like that to stay for three years. No matter how good Henson,Barnes and Macadoo are I am not seeing Lawson coming out of that tunnel. I am not seeing Felton or Phil Ford coming out of that tunnel.What do see though is a Jeff Lebo. I see King rice.That is not enough,imo. You need great point guards to win in the NCAA and in the ACC and I am not seeing it. Va. Tech,Miami and possibly FSU will all take out UNC away from the dean dome,imo. Also, I think chemistry will be an issue with Mac,Henson and Barnes trying to showcase for the NBA.

[PADukeMom]

I'll give tht Roy is a good coach but I can't honestly say he is a great coach. I guess my prespective is a bit clouded against anyone who coaches basketball games wearing powder blue sports coats or the dreaded sweater vest.
As much as I hate saying it, it is Carolina & the chances they will be awful 2 years in a row are slim. I hope they are terrible but again it IS Carolina. In my dream world they would have to forfit every game they won in the last decade.

[oldnavy]

You know, this is nearly an impossible debate to resolve. All you can do is go by records. True, Roy didn't get an NC at KU. Did he improve it after Larry Brown left? Who can say what KU would have done with a different coach. Applies to Self also. Is he a bad coach because he choked a probable NC winner last year? I think not. Roy certainly made KU perennial contenders. Some really good coaches don't win any NC's. Others wax and wane in their success. Look at Coach K. He was really rolling in getting the 2NC's in 91-92. Then languished for nearly 10 years before he got another. Then it took almost another 10 yrs to repeat. AND NO ONE, would disagree that he is one of the best to coach the college game. So OK, UNC has a really bad year following a mass exodus after a NC. So now, Ol' Roy's coaching is questionable? Ol' Roy can recruit and he can coach. And wane will soon wax.
I agree, we will not resolve anything, because my opinion is very subjective. I am not saying he is a bad coach. I am saying he is not a good in-game coach. Does he know basketball, absolutely. Can he teach, probably (no reason to think not). Can he recruit, without a doubt, one of the best. Can he adjust his style to fit his players abilities and match their talents, no (at least he hasn't done so yet). And, I would say that during games, he holds his timeouts too long, does not keep the best mix of players in the game, and he does not enforce his will on the players in crunch time. For heavens sake, against us a couple of years ago, he ran a play at the end of the game that had Hansbrough take a 20 foot off balance shot!! I am still scratching my head over that one. To me all this adds up to him not being a good in-game coach. This is my opinion, and I am sure most folks would disagree with me, but I have not heard a good argument or seen evidence that would change my opinion.

[shoutingncu]

Just look back at the Georgetown game a few years back, when UNC clanked 22 of 23 shots down the stretch in that loss. Hansbrough hardly even touched the ball during that period and Roy stood there watching with that dumbfounded look on his face.


What I find most offensive about this (the game, not your quite accurate post) is that Roy was later quoted as saying "We were one jump shot away from the Final Four."

[kong123]

Also, I think chemistry will be an issue with Mac,Henson and Barnes trying to showcase for the NBA.

I guess Duke doesn't have any guys trying to play the best that they can to improve their draft status?

Everyone in Duke's starting five could potentially be a first round pick next season.

[left_hook_lacey]

OR for that matter, name ONE program that he has been at that has been noticeably improved by his coaching. KU? UNC?

Well, this is a subject I don't usually like to debate because it's hard to compare how "great" coaches really are because no two situations are ever alike. But, to be fair and objective, Roy took over a program that was in shambles by UNC standards after the Matt D. debacle. Players were transferring, more were talking of transferring, Roy was the 3rd coach in 4 years. Not to mention they were coming off the infamous 8-20 season in which they broke all the "wrong" records.

In two seasons they won the NC led by Huck. That's a pretty good turn around.

Is is he the best "in-game" coach. No. Probably not even top 10 active. But he's decent. His theory about not calling time outs is nothing new. Dean Smith was the same way, and Roy picked that up from him although I think Roy "lets em play" even a little longer than Dean would. But they have both expressed that they'd rather have them at the end of the game. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, just like any other strategy. Hinesight and vision and all that crap.

But he holds the NCAA record for not only getting to, but winning an NCAA tournament game at 20 years(record stopped this season). That's pretty impressive. You have to be at least decent at making adjustments to hold a record like that. No matter how much talent you have, or prestige your program has, you still have to get it done on the court, and that is getting it done year after year. Even K has had a hiccup in the tournament(VCU...:mad:)

Just trying to be fair.

[moonpie23]

y'all DO remember that OUR national championship team ONLY beat THEIR crappy team by ten at their house last year and that was WAY before they started playing well.....i know they finished 67th, but that team was becoming so frustrated that they were STARTING to be dangerous..

if HWNSNBM comes in with stellar play and pulls this team's fragile ego back up, look for them to be "back"......

or worse, one of the other newbies has a standout season like cousins and HWNSNBM is merely "awesome".....

i am anxious to see our team play as well as i think they are.......and for the first time in a long time, i'm looking FORWARD to seeing the two rivalry games.......

but a snake is a snake.......it's always a snake.....till you make boots out of them.....

[Duvall]

y'all DO remember that OUR national championship team ONLY beat THEIR crappy team by ten at their house last year and that was WAY before they started playing well.....i know they finished 67th, but that team was becoming so frustrated that they were STARTING to be dangerous..



Can we put an end to the misperception that UNC started playing "well" at the end of last season? The teams they beat - Mississippi State, UAB, Rhode Island - weren't actually good. That's why they weren't in the real tournament. The Heels went from losing badly against NCAA teams to winning ugly against NIT squads. That was an improvement, but not a dramatic one.

[sdotbarbee]

crazietalker

Apparently James McAdoo will not be enrolling at UNC a year early. Too bad for the Hells. 24 minutes ago via TweetDeck

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[Kedsy]

crazietalker

Apparently James McAdoo will not be enrolling at UNC a year early. Too bad for the Hells. 24 minutes ago via TweetDeck


Don't know if this is true, but without McAdoo it becomes a lot harder for the Heels.

I know I'm repeating myself, but the UNC roster as it stands is battling with VaTech and NCSU to see who's in 2nd and who's in 4th in the league, is a 15 to 25 team nationally, and will be challenged to get out of the 2nd round of the NCAAT. Not to say they couldn't overachieve (or underachieve, I suppose), but I think that would be a reasonable expectation.

[oldnavy]

Well, this is a subject I don't usually like to debate because it's hard to compare how "great" coaches really are because no two situations are ever alike. But, to be fair and objective, Roy took over a program that was in shambles by UNC standards after the Matt D. debacle. Players were transferring, more were talking of transferring, Roy was the 3rd coach in 4 years. Not to mention they were coming off the infamous 8-20 season in which they broke all the "wrong" records.

In two seasons they won the NC led by Huck. That's a pretty good turn around.

Is is he the best "in-game" coach. No. Probably not even top 10 active. But he's decent. His theory about not calling time outs is nothing new. Dean Smith was the same way, and Roy picked that up from him although I think Roy "lets em play" even a little longer than Dean would. But they have both expressed that they'd rather have them at the end of the game. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, just like any other strategy. Hinesight and vision and all that crap.

But he holds the NCAA record for not only getting to, but winning an NCAA tournament game at 20 years(record stopped this season). That's pretty impressive. You have to be at least decent at making adjustments to hold a record like that. No matter how much talent you have, or prestige your program has, you still have to get it done on the court, and that is getting it done year after year. Even K has had a hiccup in the tournament(VCU...:mad:)

Just trying to be fair.

Well, let's say you give him credit for turning around UNC's program. I don't think that the program was in shambles, but it was down. Most of that was their own doing (artificially down). What I mean by that is they gave Doh virtually no support (never wanted him) and he was his own worst enemy as well. But the cupboard was hardly bear talent wise. Roy basically got the support he needed from the faculty and alumni to reign in the whinny McCants, instilled some disciple and then gave the ball to Ray Felton. Not exactly a coaching masterpiece. But even if you credit him with that "turnaround" he still isn't much of an game time coach IMO. Again, I respect differing opinions and fully understand that I may be wrong.

[Greg_Newton]

Don't know if this is true, but without McAdoo it becomes a lot harder for the Heels.

I know I'm repeating myself, but the UNC roster as it stands is battling with VaTech and NCSU to see who's in 2nd and who's in 4th in the league, is a 15 to 25 team nationally, and will be challenged to get out of the 2nd round of the NCAAT. Not to say they couldn't overachieve (or underachieve, I suppose), but I think that would be a reasonable expectation.

Me either, but it's what everyone's been saying as of last night/this morning. Seems like it's probably the truth.

Hope Harrison's been working on his post defense! :D

[BlueThru&Thru]

Me either, but it's what everyone's been saying as of last night/this morning. Seems like it's probably the truth.

Hope Harrison's been working on his post defense! :D

Even if the McAdoo line is correct, HB may not need to work on it particularly if Fields from UNC-W comes by the same route as Knox.

[sandinmyshoes]

I seem to remember that when Williams took over at KU just after they lost a lot of players to graduation/early entry, and had been placed on probation. I definately remember being impressed by the job he did there the first couple of years based on what you would have expected from that team.

There are two modes of looking at how good a job Williams has done and how good a coach he is. When I'm in my Duke fan sparring with UNC fans mode, and when I'm in my serious fan of basketball in general mode. When I'm serious, as I try to be on DBR, I have to admit he is a great coach. Not perfect, but overall he's an elite coach. Which is probably why he is in the Hall of Fame.

If this news about MacAdoo is true, then it probably keeps UNC out of the top ten next year. But as I posted earlier in the thread, you never know for sure. I thought this past year Jon was going to be a good, workmanlike point guard for us. But he exceeded those expectations by far. I guess you never be sure when it comes to the psychological and developmental arc of college players and teams.

[Greg_Newton]

Even if the McAdoo line is correct, HB may not need to work on it particularly if Fields from UNC-W comes by the same route as Knox.

Has there been any speculation at all that this may happen? Link?

[Duvall]

But as I posted earlier in the thread, you never know for sure. I thought this past year Jon was going to be a good, workmanlike point guard for us. But he exceeded those expectations by far. I guess you never be sure when it comes to the psychological and developmental arc of college players and teams.

True enough. Still, this UNC team will be so young. Going into last year Jon Scheyer had logged 3289 minutes of action at the college level - more than Tyler Zeller, Larry Drew II, John Henson, Dexter Strickland, Harrison Barnes, Reggie Bullock and Kendall Marshall, combined. (3225 minutes.)

[BD80]

Can we put an end to the misperception that UNC started playing "well" at the end of last season? The teams they beat - Mississippi State, UAB, Rhode Island - weren't actually good. That's why they weren't in the real tournament. The Heels went from losing badly against NCAA teams to winning ugly against NIT squads. That was an improvement, but not a dramatic one.

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!

Let the misperceptions continue!

I hope they are playing just as "well" when they play Duke this coming season!

I would enjoy carolina again collapsing under the weight of too great expectations.

Ky took a bit of a tumble under Gillespie, could happen to the heels.

[Newton_14]

Even if the McAdoo line is correct, HB may not need to work on it particularly if Fields from UNC-W comes by the same route as Knox.


As another poster requested, link please?

So what is the story with this kid? 5th year guy with 1 year eligibility who can attend Grad School on the hill? Inquiring minds want to know!:confused:

[Duvall]

As another poster requested, link please?

So what is the story with this kid? 5th year guy with 1 year eligibility who can attend Grad School on the hill? Inquiring minds want to know!:confused:

Pretty much (http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20100618/ARTICLES/100619620/1005/sports?Title=Fields-won-t-return-to-UNCW). No word on whether he's considering UNC, though he looks to be a lot better than Justin Knox.

[BlueThru&Thru]

As another poster requested, link please?

So what is the story with this kid? 5th year guy with 1 year eligibility who can attend Grad School on the hill? Inquiring minds want to know!:confused:

http://boards.caazone.com/showthread.php?t=94512&page=2

Primarily speculation by UNC-W fans. Despite his reboundng and shot-blocking, many of their fans don't think he is an ACC caliber player.
So nevermind.

[Newton_14]

Pretty much (http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20100618/ARTICLES/100619620/1005/sports?Title=Fields-won-t-return-to-UNCW). No word on whether he's considering UNC, though he looks to be a lot better than Justin Knox.

Thanks. Now this is one that could get very interesting. From the article, Buzz Peterson was caught off guard, feels he was lied to, and is not happy. Buzz also will not release the kid to any opponent on the schedule.

The question is will the unc school system allow the transfer from 1 sister school to another under these circumstances, and basically make Buzz suck it up and deal with it for the sake of "helping the family".

The politics angle of this could get interesting if Huck decides he wants this kid...

[BD80]

Thanks. Now this is one that could get very interesting. From the article, Buzz Peterson was caught off guard, feels he was lied to, and is not happy. Buzz also will not release the kid to any opponent on the schedule.

The question is will the unc school system allow the transfer from 1 sister school to another under these circumstances, and basically make Buzz suck it up and deal with it for the sake of "helping the family".

The politics angle of this could get interesting if Huck decides he wants this kid...

What about ol' roy recruiting over Justin Knox just MINUTES after convincing him to spend his last year of eligibility at unc. Now Knox could be buried on the bench he was recruited to save. ol' roy's a real gem.

[Class of '94]

crazietalker

Apparently James McAdoo will not be enrolling at UNC a year early. Too bad for the Hells. 24 minutes ago via TweetDeck

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If this is true, it makes a lot of sense for McAdoo to wait and come to UNC for the 2011-2012 season. And Duke biasness aside, I think this move would be in the best interest of McAdoo. I remembered reading somewhere that McAdoo and Roy agreed that he would be a 3 in college since his family believed that would be his position in the NBA. If he had came this year, there's no way he would get that much time on the perimeter as a 3; and basically would lose/sacrifice a year of eligibility and preparation as a 3 for the NBA in order to help "save" Carolina by playing mostly inside.

[MChambers]

I remembered reading somewhere that McAdoo and Roy agreed that he would be a 3 in college since his family believed that would be his position in the NBA. If he had came this year, there's no way he would get that much time on the perimeter as a 3; and basically would lose/sacrifice a year of eligibility and preparation as a 3 for the NBA in order to help "save" Carolina by playing mostly inside.
I still think most NBA "3s" play the 4 in college. A few get to move to the 3 while they're still in college, but they are the exception. You really need very good perimeter skills, on both ends of the floor, to play the 3 in college, and players who are big enough to play the 3 in the NBA usually don't have those skills as freshman.

I agree, however, that it is very possible that McAdoo would be better off staying in high school. He'd be a pretty young freshman, and he'd be likely to struggle on and off the court.

[oldnavy]

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!

Let the misperceptions continue!

I hope they are playing just as "well" when they play Duke this coming season!

I would enjoy carolina again collapsing under the weight of too great expectations.

Ky took a bit of a tumble under Gillespie, could happen to the heels.

The one thing I will say about their play at the end of the season, was that they seemed to be a lot looser. Maybe since the pressure was off and the level of competition was not as great they eased up a little. But then in the NIT title game they seemed to stiffen up again.

The major challenge for them this year will not be the 94X50 court space, it will be the space between their collective ear's. Roy's included. If they can calm themselves and play within themselves they will be a pretty good team. If they try to run wide open and just outscore their opponents I expect another bad year. Who is going to lead this team?

[roywhite]

The one thing I will say about their play at the end of the season, was that they seemed to be a lot looser. Maybe since the pressure was off and the level of competition was not as great they eased up a little. But then in the NIT title game they seemed to stiffen up again.

The major challenge for them this year will not be the 94X50 court space, it will be the space between their collective ear's. Roy's included. If they can calm themselves and play within themselves they will be a pretty good team. If they try to run wide open and just outscore their opponents I expect another bad year. Who is going to lead this team?


Really, isn't freshman Harrison Barnes the most likely choice to assume a leadership role? Who else would?---Drew 2?

Pretty unusual to have a freshman leader at a high profile program...does it work? It might, but it's a risk.

[oldnavy]

Really, isn't freshman Harrison Barnes the most likely choice to assume a leadership role? Who else would?---Drew 2?

Pretty unusual to have a freshman leader at a high profile program...does it work? It might, but it's a risk.

At this point he does seem to be the most likely candidate. He may do a very good job, but like you say he is a freshman. I think his ability to lead will be directly tied to his performance on the court. If he proves to be a go to man and clutch performer, he could pull it off. BUT that is a lot of pressure for a freshman to live up to. If he is not a go to guy (average or a bit better) and he tries to be a vocal leader, that may fall flat. Even if he does provide leadership early will he be able to break through that wall most freshman hit?? I look forward to seeing how it all unfolds. I am not counting the heels out yet, but there are a lot of IF's in the equation.

[moonpie23]

john wall walked in and OWNED the UK program immediately.....he did it with stellar play, jedi mind tricks, and an infectious personality...

barnes COULD do the same.....

keyword: COULD

[Class of '94]

john wall walked in and OWNED the UK program immediately.....he did it with stellar play, jedi mind tricks, and an infectious personality...

barnes COULD do the same.....

keyword: COULD

John Wall was the point guard and had the ball in his hands most of the time and made all the decisions on the court. Unless HB becomes the PG, a point forward, or Roy changes his system to put the ball in HB's hands most of the time and let him make the decisions, I don't see HB having the same kind of impact John Wall did. I think KI is more likely to have the John Wall impact for Duke.

But it does not mean that HB won't have an impact on the their team; I think he will but it will be different from what John Wall brought to KY.

[sagegrouse]

The one thing I will say about their play at the end of the season, was that they seemed to be a lot looser. Maybe since the pressure was off and the level of competition was not as great they eased up a little. But then in the NIT title game they seemed to stiffen up again.

The major challenge for them this year will not be the 94X50 court space, it will be the space between their collective ear's. Roy's included. If they can calm themselves and play within themselves they will be a pretty good team. If they try to run wide open and just outscore their opponents I expect another bad year. Who is going to lead this team?

I think the utter lack of confidence of the 2010 UNC team can be attributed to the deadly trifecta of (a) the UNC mystique, (b) the winning of the NC in 2009, and (c) the high preseason ranking despite losing all of its key players. And when the team struggled from the beginning, the players got totally frustrated by failing to live up to the mystique, the defending champion position and the preseason prediction.

Ol' Roy should have said, in both public and private:


"Number five in country? Are you kidding me? We are not #5 in the ACC! This is a totally new team that isn't playing well. [Remember that the Heels got absolutely smoked by Vandy in an October scrimmage.] If we work really hard, maybe we can get in the top half of the conference and get an NCAA bid. Don't get me wrong. I want to win every game, but I am telling you what I see on the court."

I agree with what you say about improvement at the end of the year, although "easing up" wasn't a problem during the season -- the UNC team NEVER played hard during the season for a full game -- or even a full half.

What Roy should have done was insist on maximum effort. The players that played hard would get the minutes. The message would get through in about one game.

sagegrouse

[Big Pappa]

John Wall was the point guard and had the ball in his hands most of the time and made all the decisions on the court. Unless HB becomes the PG, a point forward, or Roy changes his system to put the ball in HB's hands most of the time and let him make the decisions, I don't see HB having the same kind of impact John Wall did. I think KI is more likely to have the John Wall impact for Duke.


HB will have the ball in his hands the majority of the time regardless of position. Most of the time, depending on who they are playing, he will be head and shoulders above everyone else on the court.

[Kedsy]

And when the team struggled from the beginning, the players got totally frustrated by failing to live up to the mystique, the defending champion position and the preseason prediction.

This is a good theory, except it's not entirely true. Going into 2010, UNC was 11-3 including wins over two of the four top 15 teams they'd played. Two of their three losses were road losses to top 5 teams (and the third was a loss to eventual #1 seed Syracuse in NYC). They were ranked #9 in the country. It wasn't until the loss to Charleston on January 4 that the wheels fell off the wagon.


John Wall was the point guard and had the ball in his hands most of the time and made all the decisions on the court. Unless HB becomes the PG, a point forward, or Roy changes his system to put the ball in HB's hands most of the time and let him make the decisions, I don't see HB having the same kind of impact John Wall did. I think KI is more likely to have the John Wall impact for Duke.

But it does not mean that HB won't have an impact on the their team; I think he will but it will be different from what John Wall brought to KY.

Lots of team leaders have played positions other than PG. Lots of non-PGs have had a huge "impact" on their teams. HB has the personality and he'll probably be the best player on the team. He'll be the leader. How well he does it will be a major component of how well UNC plays as a team.

[COYS]

This is a good theory, except it's not entirely true. Going into 2010, UNC was 11-3 including wins over two of the four top 15 teams they'd played. Two of their three losses were road losses to top 5 teams (and the third was a loss to eventual #1 seed Syracuse in NYC). They were ranked #9 in the country. It wasn't until the loss to Charleston on January 4 that the wheels fell off the wagon.



Lots of team leaders have played positions other than PG. Lots of non-PGs have had a huge "impact" on their teams. HB has the personality and he'll probably be the best player on the team. He'll be the leader. How well he does it will be a major component of how well UNC plays as a team.

Barnes has the skills to be the primary playmaker in the halfcourt, as well. If Roy wants to, he can certainly put Barnes in the position to be the leader on the court.

[BlueThru&Thru]

As goes the PG, so goes the team/season. LD2 did not pass the eyeball test last year and to date hasn't shown the quality of an elite PG. If he has some sort of epiphany going into his Jr year, the Heels could be really good, assuming no significant injuries. If the PG play is mediocre so will be the team unless there is some sort of second coming in HB. Also, the chemistry will have to be better. Ed Davis, from all reports, was a toxic presence and his leaving is the best thing to happen to the Heels for '10-'11.

[sagegrouse]

Originally Posted by sagegrouse
And when the team struggled from the beginning, the players got totally frustrated by failing to live up to the mystique, the defending champion position and the preseason prediction.



This is a good theory, except it's not entirely true. Going into 2010, UNC was 11-3 including wins over two of the four top 15 teams they'd played. Two of their three losses were road losses to top 5 teams (and the third was a loss to eventual #1 seed Syracuse in NYC). They were ranked #9 in the country. It wasn't until the loss to Charleston on January 4 that the wheels fell off the wagon.


Thanks, Kedsy. Please amend my comment to say, "When the team struggled, the players got totally frustrated...."

sagegrouse

[BlueThru&Thru]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZOtRJXvmRc

Actually he looks like a very athletic presence underneath. Must be disgruntled UNCW fans slamming him

[roywhite]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZOtRJXvmRc

Actually he looks like a very athletic presence underneath. Must be disgruntled UNCW fans slamming him

So, is it possible (or likely) the Heels pick up John Fields?

[BlueThru&Thru]

So, is it possible (or likely) the Heels pick up John Fields?

Don't know. Just a lot chatter on various boards that it is possible. I guess it hinges on whether McAdoo is coming early. Don't know if Roy is even interested.

[roywhite]

Don't know. Just a lot chatter on various boards that it is possible. I guess it hinges on whether McAdoo is coming early. Don't know if Roy is even interested.

My impression (just from message board stuff) was that McAdoo had decided not to enroll early at UNC and to remain with the 2011 recruiting class. Is that decided or official?

[oldnavy]

I think the utter lack of confidence of the 2010 UNC team can be attributed to the deadly trifecta of (a) the UNC mystique, (b) the winning of the NC in 2009, and (c) the high preseason ranking despite losing all of its key players. And when the team struggled from the beginning, the players got totally frustrated by failing to live up to the mystique, the defending champion position and the preseason prediction.

Ol' Roy should have said, in both public and private:


"Number five in country? Are you kidding me? We are not #5 in the ACC! This is a totally new team that isn't playing well. [Remember that the Heels got absolutely smoked by Vandy in an October scrimmage.] If we work really hard, maybe we can get in the top half of the conference and get an NCAA bid. Don't get me wrong. I want to win every game, but I am telling you what I see on the court."

I agree with what you say about improvement at the end of the year, although "easing up" wasn't a problem during the season -- the UNC team NEVER played hard during the season for a full game -- or even a full half.

What Roy should have done was insist on maximum effort. The players that played hard would get the minutes. The message would get through in about one game.

sagegrouse

I agree totally with your comments, but let me clarify mine. What I meant was, ease up regarding the internal pressure they put on themselves, not effort. It was clear and if it wasn't clear Roy made a point to say it enough that the team wasn't giving the effort he expected. I think that problem may have left with Ginyard and "easy Ed Davis". Neither ever impressed me that they were giving 100%. Effort is one thing, execution of an impossible game plan is another. Will this team be able to play Roy Ball? If so, then they will win a lot, if not they will lose a lot. A half court Roy Williams team does not worry me, a high octane up and down team coached by RW does.

Also, the Wall comparison to HB is legit although they are filling two different roles. HB most likely will be the best player and de facto leader. But remember that Wall actually hit "the wall" towards the end of last year, before bouncing back. He and Calipari had a little fall out based on Cal's expectations of JW, and JW took some exception to it. They worked it out, but JW did have a drop off in production for a while. BUT, John Wall was a very, very special - once in a long while - type player, is HB that good??? I am not so sure yet. Maybe he is. How will he handle Roy getting in his grill if it comes to that? If he has a bad game and UNC looses will Roy toss him under the bus, and will HB and his ego be able to handle it? All questions that will have to wait to be answered, but intriguing to ponder during the dog days...

[Duvall]

My impression (just from message board stuff) was that McAdoo had decided not to enroll early at UNC and to remain with the 2011 recruiting class. Is that decided or official?

McAdoo says he's enrolling in 2011 (http://www.zagsblog.com/2010/06/22/mcadoo-will-attend-north-carolina-in-2011/).

[oldnavy]

McAdoo says he's enrolling in 2011 (http://www.zagsblog.com/2010/06/22/mcadoo-will-attend-north-carolina-in-2011/).

Good for him, seems like he knows what he wants and is going to pursue it. This does hurt UNC a little for next year just from the depth perspective, but I wouldn't think it will have a tremendous effect.

[whereinthehellami]

Tough break for UNC. I think he would have saw some time next year, especially with the injury concerns of their frontcourt.

[BD80]

Good for him, seems like he knows what he wants and is going to pursue it. This does hurt UNC a little for next year just from the depth perspective, but I wouldn't think it will have a tremendous effect.

What if Henson, Barnes and Zeller leave at the end of next year?

Could be a tough initiation to college ball for J Mac

[Lord Ash]

Good. Didn't want McAdoo there with Barnes next year, McAdoo looks very good.

[roywhite]

Good. Didn't want McAdoo there with Barnes next year, McAdoo looks very good.

Since McAdoo and Ole Roy have discussed McAdoo's best position as being the "3", seems like there is a connection between Barnes occupying that position and McAdoo not showing up till 2011.

[Duvall]

Since McAdoo and Ole Roy have discussed McAdoo's best position as being the "3", seems like there is a connection between Barnes occupying that position and McAdoo not showing up till 2011.

If that's the case, McAdoo's getting scammed. Even if Barnes leaves UNC will still need a big man more than a small forward. McAdoo will be lucky if he doesn't find himself playing center.

[COYS]

If that's the case, McAdoo's getting scammed. Even if Barnes leaves UNC will still need a big man more than a small forward. McAdoo will be lucky if he doesn't find himself playing center.

This is especially true assuming Bullock sticks around. Drew/Marshal at the 1, Stricland at the 2 and Bullock at the 3 seems like the most likely lineup for that season.

[jipops]

If that's the case, McAdoo's getting scammed. Even if Barnes leaves UNC will still need a big man more than a small forward. McAdoo will be lucky if he doesn't find himself playing center.

Keep in mind this is a lot of hearsay. We don't truly know what the facts were of McAdoo and Roy's recruiting discussions. Besides, McAdoo would have a hard time finding many programs that would play him exclusively at the 3 with his size.

[wilko]

Keep in mind this is a lot of hearsay. We don't truly know what the facts were of McAdoo and Roy's recruiting discussions. Besides, McAdoo would have a hard time finding many programs that would play him exclusively at the 3 with his size.


Indeed. He has made a wise decision to weaken UNC and we can only hope he de-commits at some point over the summer.

Have a great summer and enjoy the Prom.

[Class of '94]

A quick aside from the McAdoo talk.....

I'm not saying HB can't or won't be a leader for UNC this year. He will be an impact for UNC; but I don't believe he's going to impact the team like Wall did for KY. My biggest question about HB is how much will he truly have the ball in his hands to make plays for that team. If he's leading the team as a point forward and making most of the decisions, he will an excellent opportunity to try and make a similar impact. But I don't think he will because of the following reasons:

1) He's not a forward with point guard skills and vision yet (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong with examples; I don't recall him running his HS team in terms of distributing the ball and getting his team into its offense); and
2) Roy would have to be willing to change his system to feature HB. Roy's offense is predicated on the PG and an inside presence. As good as some of the perimeter players he's had like Ellington and McCants, they weren't featured in Roy's offense. The closest guy I can think of is Paul Pierce but I don't recall the offense in Kansas featuring him as number 1 option and Pierce dominating the ball.

[shoutingncu]

2) Roy would have to be willing to change his system to feature HB. Roy's offense is predicated on the PG and an inside presence. As good as some of the perimeter players he's had like Ellington and McCants, they weren't featured in Roy's offense. The closest guy I can think of is Paul Pierce but I don't recall the offense in Kansas featuring him as number 1 option and Pierce dominating the ball.

If I recall, however, McCants was our leading scorer (or close to it) for two seasons.

Barnes doesn't have to start with the ball in his hands (so long as he can catch the passes that his teammates seemed unable to this past season... Cue "teammates must have been in the third row" remarks).

[Bluedevil114]

John Fields + Justin Knox < Wear Twins

I would much rather have another year with the Wear boys that know the system, know the ACC and have more potential then to have Fields and Knox. Definitely a downgrade at those positions on the bench.

Advantage Duke!!

[Class of '94]

If I recall, however, McCants was our leading scorer (or close to it) for two seasons.

Barnes doesn't have to start with the ball in his hands (so long as he can catch the passes that his teammates seemed unable to this past season... Cue "teammates must have been in the third row" remarks).

But I thought McCants should have gotten the ball more; but the focus was on Felton getting the ball down the court as quickly as possible and dumping the ball down low to Sean May. I'm sure McCants would agree with me.:)

[BlueThru&Thru]

John Fields + Justin Knox < Wear Twins

I would much rather have another year with the Wear boys that know the system, know the ACC and have more potential then to have Fields and Knox. Definitely a downgrade at those positions on the bench.

Advantage Duke!!

You must not have been watching our Wear twins last season. Remember?, they were the sorta big guys who wanted to play perimeter and didn't do so well. And forget about underneath. Gimme Knox and Fields any day. For the athleticism if nothing else.

[Greg_Newton]

Thought this was funny enough to bring over from TDD, courtesy of "GHend".

UNC played a pickup game against some alumni today (Felton, May, etc.), in which they supposedly gave a good comeback effort that has their fans abuzz. However, check out this play-by-play starting from 77-77 (they played to 80):


Actual Game Recap from IC after Bullock makes a three to tie the Alumni/Current game at 77:

Jawad Williams (ALU): Missed 3 pointer
Reggie Bullock (CUR): Missed 3 pointer
Jawad Williams (ALU): Missed 3 pointer
Harrison Barnes (CUR): Turnover
Wayne Ellington (ALU): Missed 3 pointer
Tyler Zeller (CUR): Missed 3 pointer
Kendall Marshall (CUR): Missed 3 pointer
Jawad Williams (ALU): Missed 3 pointer
Ray Felton (ALU): Turnover
Harrison Barnes (CUR): Missed 3 pointer
Kendall Marshall (CUR): Missed Layup
Tyler Zeller (CUR): Missed Putback
Dante Calabria (ALU): Missed Jump Shot
Reggie Bullock (CUR): Missed Jump Shot
Jawad Williams (ALU): Missed Jump Shot
Harrison Barnes (CUR): Missed 3 pointer
Reggie Bullock (CUR): Missed 3 pointer
Ray Felton (ALU): Missed 3 pointer
Tyler Zeller (CUR): Layup (79-77 CUR)
Sean May (ALU): Missed Dunk
Reggie Bullock (CUR): Missed Runner
Wayne Ellington (ALU): 3 pointer (80-79 ALU FINAL)

"We don't really work on end of game situations..." :D

[Cockabeau]

I believe there will be an adjustment period for both players.Give me the Wears....I can't believe I said that.

[Newton_14]

You must not have been watching our Wear twins last season. Remember?, they were the sorta big guys who wanted to play perimeter and didn't do so well. And forget about underneath. Gimme Knox and Fields any day. For the athleticism if nothing else.

I don't get it. You are like the 3 or 4th unc poster I have seen make this observation. I watched more unc games last season than I have in years (enjoyed watching all the meltdowns:D) and that observation only holds to David Wear.

David played the SF/WF position and was actually a pretty good 3 point shooter. He had a nice stroke from the outside. Travis Wear however, played PF and worked almost exclusively on the interior. He shot the occasional 3 pointer but I think he had something like 8 attempts from 3 all year.

I don't understand why so many believe that Travis was not an interior player. That is exactly what he was, actually. Whether he was good or bad is another discussion but he definitely played a true PF position when he was in games.

[ACCBBallFan]

As goes the PG, so goes the team/season. LD2 did not pass the eyeball test last year and to date hasn't shown the quality of an elite PG. If he has some sort of epiphany going into his Jr year, the Heels could be really good, assuming no significant injuries. If the PG play is mediocre so will be the team unless there is some sort of second coming in HB. Also, the chemistry will have to be better. Ed Davis, from all reports, was a toxic presence and his leaving is the best thing to happen to the Heels for '10-'11. there is only one returning PG (Delaney) that had more positive offensive stats than Drew did last year:

2120 Malcolm Delaney-1 VaT PG 6' 03" 190

1608 Larry Drew II-3 UNC PG 6' 02" 180

1601 Reggie Jackson-5 BC PG 6' 03" 200

1474 Durand Scott-7 Miami PG 6' 03" 195

1411 Javier Gonzalez-6 NC St PG 6' 00" 175

1397 Derwin Kitchen-10 FSU PG 6' 04" 198

1377 Adrian Bowie-9 MD PG 6' 02" 190

1352 Demontez Stitt-4 Clemson PG 6' 02" 175

1018 Mfon Udofia-13 GaT PG-2 6' 02" 187

975 Maurice Miller-12 GaT PG 6' 02" 189

699 Jontel Evans-15 UVA PG 5' 11" 185

000 Kyrie Irving-2 Duke PG 6' 02" 172
000 Kendall Marshall-8 UNC PG-2 6' 04" 180
000 Ryan Harrow-11 NC St PG-2 6' 00" 160
000 Tony Chennault-16 WF PG 6' 02" 185
000 Lamont Jones-17 VaT PG-2 6' 00" 190

The metric is just MP + Pts + Reb + Asst - TO + Stl + Blocks

I put more weight into single season stats since that is what we are discussing. On a career basis, Drew is pretty far down the list

Career Overall Ranking

5633 Malcolm Delaney-1
3760 Demontez Stitt-4
2978 Javier Gonzalez-6
2728 Adrian Bowie-9
2696 Reggie Jackson-5
2523 Maurice Miller-12
2476 Derwin Kitchen-10
2169 Larry Drew II-3
1478 Durand Scott-7
1015 Mfon Udofia-13
671 Jontel Evans-15

On RCSI HS ratings he is way down the list but higher than Delaney so that does not mean a lot

RCSI average of HS ratings
04 Kyrie Irving-2
19 Kendall Marshall-8
23 Ryan Harrow-11
29 Reggie Jackson-5
33 Javier Gonzalez-6
33 Durand Scott-7
34 Mfon Udofia-13
38 Derwin Kitchen-10
40 Demontez Stitt-4
42 Adrian Bowie-9
44 Larry Drew II-3
64 Tony Chennault-16
77 Malcolm Delaney-1
77 Jontel Evans-15
84 Lamont Jones-17
88 Maurice Miller-12

As a side note I expect Durand Scott to play much better than the mathematical exercise above would predict. Kitchen seems a little low too but looks like Kyrie and Delaney are top PGs.

[ACCBBallFan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZOtRJXvmRc

Actually he looks like a very athletic presence underneath. Must be disgruntled UNCW fans slamming him

I think it was the ECU fans who were disgruntled and the UNC-W fans hoping he would return. He played 2 years at ECU sat a year and then one at UNC-W.

Their "feedback" was that all Fields can do is dunk and putbacks but that is mostly what a center does.

They also cited he has played for 7 different coaches the past 9 years (probably an exaggeration) and the parents may be overly involved. Some cited the mother, others the father.

Sounds like when Henson is not in the game Knox or maybe Fields if he ends up at UNC would be the center and Zeller the PF, since Graves has the weight but not the height or Barnes has the height but not the weight.

Like Duke was on perimeter last year, UNC front court would be bare bones. Adding Knox to challenge Zeller at practice was key as Graves could give Henson somebody stronger to contend with in practice.

Likewise Henson would give Graves somebody taller to practice against.

In games pretty much a three man rotation at PF/C.

[Newton_14]

there is only one returning PG (Delaney) that had more positive offensive stats than Drew did last year:

2120 Malcolm Delaney-1 VaT PG 6' 03" 190

1608 Larry Drew II-3 UNC PG 6' 02" 180

.

What does the number following the players name represent? In the RSCI rankings list I assume that number represented position rank. What does it represent in the stats list though?

Thanks

[oldnavy]

Thought this was funny enough to bring over from TDD, courtesy of "GHend".

UNC played a pickup game against some alumni today (Felton, May, etc.), in which they supposedly gave a good comeback effort that has their fans abuzz. However, check out this play-by-play starting from 77-77 (they played to 80):



"We don't really work on end of game situations..." :D

Oh yea, I forgot this lovely quote in my argument against Roy being a good in-game coach.

[roywhite]

Interesting article about James McAdoo and how he decided not to enroll early at UNC.

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/nicaragua-mission-trip-helped-mcadoo-make-unc-decision


Highly-rated forward James McAdoo, who had considered graduating from high school early and playing for North Carolina next season, won't head to Chapel Hill until 2011, after all.

The choice to return to Norfolk (Va.) Christian for his senior season wasn’t made on the basketball court, however – but while repairing rooftops in a dump in Managua.

[oldnavy]

Interesting article about James McAdoo and how he decided not to enroll early at UNC.

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/nicaragua-mission-trip-helped-mcadoo-make-unc-decision

Dang it, after reading that article it is going to be impossible for me to pull against this kid!

He seems like a very well grounded kid that has the proper perspective and priorities in life. I truly wish him the best in his future (except when he plays Duke).

[Jderf]

Dang it, after reading that article it is going to be impossible for me to pull against this kid!

He seems like a very well grounded kid that has the proper perspective and priorities in life.

Don't you hate it when that happens? It's just so inconsiderate of them... Personally, I'm just going to pretend like I didn't read it.

[MChambers]

He seems like a very well grounded kid that has the proper perspective and priorities in life.
Not if he's going to UNC!

But otherwise, yeah, he seems to be a great kid.