CP3 Camp Reports

[airowe]

http://www.basketballelite.com/?p=281

http://twitter.com/TheHoopsReport

http://twitter.com/silverbax

[PhillyDuke]

Get 'em Seth...Get 'em!!!!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Go get 'em Kyle, Nolan and Seth! Next season is going to be really fun!

The camp is filled with some of the top talent in both the college ranks and high school, with Duke stars Kyle Singler, Nolan Smith and incoming transfer Seth Curry all working their way through the drills. Kyle Singler and Harrison Barnes are forwards taking on a point guard skills camp, an attempt to constantly improve and push themselves. Singler works doggedly through the drills, exerting an effort that would set an example to the high school players just across the gym – if they weren’t so focused on surviving the drills themselves.

[DukeBlueNV]

Anyone know why Irving and Dawkins didn't go?

By the way thanks for the info airowe...

[_TheFakeJWill_]

This is awesome! Def some high words for Singler and Seth. Cant wait to hear how Barnes vs. Singler match up:D Wish Kyrie was there though. Id love for him to go agains CP3

[BD80]

http://twitter.com/TheHoopsReport


Very encouraging.


[Seth Curry] showed his NBA range jumper and played some lock-down defense on [Chris Paul ] at CP3 Camp tonight.

Reply Retweet . Kyle Singler and Seth Curry looking great for Duke. 2 of the best guys here. Some great ACC matchups here.

Reply Retweet . Seth Curry just stripped Chris Paul. Good D.

Reply Retweet . Kyle Singler just scored on Chris Paul and Seth Curry back to back.

Interesting that in sprints, HBarnes was the fastest of the 17 players.

[airowe]

Anyone know why Irving and Dawkins didn't go?

By the way thanks for the info airowe...

Kyrie is in Texas for USA tryouts (he picked us over Australia, his birth country), but not sure about Andre. I believe you have to get invited.

[airowe]

TheHoopsReport In this foot race, Kemba Walker, Nolan Smith and Brandon Triche were the fastest.

[Kedsy]

Reading the twitter reports, whoo-hoo for Kyle, Seth, and Nolan. Whoever has been saying Kyle and Nolan "are what they are" (and thus probably won't improve much between their junior and senior years) may be in for a surprise.

It sounds like HB is the real deal, though. In addition to winning a four court length foot race, he was one of the top four in a dribbling drill (as well as Nolan and also Kendall Marshall), and one guy said, "Harrison barnes jump shot is indefensible for a guard, you just have to hope he misses." (Of course, the good news for us is we won't be defending him with a guard.) If McAdoo decides to come early, then reports of UNC's demise may have been premature.

[Big Pappa]

TheHoopsReport In this foot race, Kemba Walker, Nolan Smith and Brandon Triche were the fastest.

That sounds about right. I would say that Kemba is the fastest player, end-to-end, with the basketball in the country.

Nice little piece of info about KI being born in Australia. I did a little digging (for the common poster, I'm sure airowe already knew) and he was born in Australia while his Dad (Drederick) was playing professional basketball there.

"After trying out with the Celtics in 1988, he spent a year in Melbourne, Australia with the Bulleen Bombers and averaged more than 38 points. Kyrie was born down under before returning stateside to Seattle and then to his father's roots in the Mitchell Houses of the South Bronx."

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/kevin_armstrong/06/21/kyrie.irving/index.html#ixzz0qf73hiQc

[theAlaskanBear]

I'm impressed that Duke had three players there...did any team have more? I'm ESPECIALLY impressed that Kyle Singler went...his passion to improve his game is awesome.

[Cockabeau]

There no way that Seth Curry will not play a major role for this team. I have said this from the beginning.

[Kedsy]

There no way that Seth Curry will not play a major role for this team. I have said this from the beginning.

And nobody has disagreed with you (on that issue). What people do disagree with you about are your contentions that Seth will start and that Kyrie, Nolan, and Seth will be on the court together for long periods of time. He can still play a major role without either of those predictions coming true.

[Kedsy]

I AGREE with him. Kyrie, Nolan, and Seth will be on the court together for SIGNIFICANT periods of time.

Well, I usually agree with you, BD, and it may be we're parsing the word "significant" (I expect, for example, those three to be used in short spurts for 5 or so minutes a game -- as much as 10 minutes would surprise me -- to press full court or trap half court), but Kyrie, Nolan, and Seth can only be on the floor together if one of them can guard the other team's "3," and that's going to be very difficult in most of our ACC games and probably most games against top 25 opponents (the exception being a team like Butler). For example, when we play UNC, which of them would guard Harrison Barnes? Against Florida State, who would guard Singleton?

(I apologize to all for, once again, perpetuating this discussion. Whoever said every single thread seems to devolve into a minutes discussion appears to be right.)

[airowe]

(I apologize to all for, once again, perpetuating this discussion. Whoever said every single thread seems to devolve into a minutes discussion appears to be right.)

'Tis the offseason... :D

[Cockabeau]

Well, I usually agree with you, BD, and it may be we're parsing the word "significant" (I expect, for example, those three to be used in short spurts for 5 or so minutes a game -- as much as 10 minutes would surprise me -- to press full court or trap half court), but Kyrie, Nolan, and Seth can only be on the floor together if one of them can guard the other team's "3," and that's going to be very difficult in most of our ACC games and probably most games against

You don't seem to be understanding the concept here.3-point shooting is the biggest weapon in basketball. Pressure man-to-man is going to wreak havoc. the Plumlees aren't effective tandem yet. Nolan Smith CAN guard the SF position due to his length. I could name a zillion reasons why your argument just doesn't hold weight but I won't.

[Newton_14]

You don't seem to be understanding the concept here.3-point shooting is the biggest weapon in basketball. Pressure man-to-man is going to wreak havoc. the Plumlees aren't effective tandem yet. Nolan Smith CAN guard the SF position due to his length. I could name a zillion reasons why your argument just doesn't hold weight but I won't.

Well let's hear them, because I have provided actual data and rational arguments/data points numerous times in other threads as to why Seth, Nolan, and Kyrie will not be on the floor together for "signigficant" minutes putting Kyle at the 4.

Yet, all you throw out in defense are things like"

-"Because I just know these things"
- "K favors 3 guard line ups"
- "3 guard line ups are more effective"
- "Seth is the best player on the team"

If you can provide actual data points and facts to back that up to go along personal opinion, I would love to see it. In fact I think it is time we have a thread on this to keep all of the discussion on this in that thread and out of other ones. I believe I will start one...

[DukeBlueNV]

With the same players and the same incoming freshman class, but that won't be the case with Mich State. Chris Allen has already been reported as considering transfering and according to Delvon Roe's father Allen was not at the player's meeting where Izzo spoke to the team about the Cavs job and also hasn't been attending workouts. Delvon Roe's father also told ESPN that he would advise his son to tranfer if Izzo left. It will also be hard to keep the four-man recruiting class if Izzo leaves.

Sources:

http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2010/06/delvon_roes_dad_tom_izzo_hasnt.html

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/features/rumors/_/date/20100611

what does this have to do with the cp3 camp? anyone have updates from today?

I opened this thread trying to get some tidbits on how they guys are playing today instead i have to sift through 100 posts debating the line-up for next year. seems like threads always endup morphing into topics like: harrison barnes, line-ups, how good will UNC be, etc. I know someone is gonna say "let the mods do their job"... okay but till then lets attempt to stay on topic on our own...

[DreAllDay]

Some words from Nolan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VikTe-FvILM

[DreAllDay]

and some words from Kyle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYQcT67FBz0

[Cockabeau]

I just gave you four facts on my previous post but I make it easier for you. The Plumlees can't screen or set picks as well as Z or LT. Fact. The Plumlees get lost on defensive rotations.Fact. There I gave you two more reasons why Duke won't play big next year. Yes, one plumlee will start and they will at times play together but the core of our team next year is Nolan,Ki,Curry,Singler,Plumlee. I hope i have cleared some things up for you.

[DreAllDay]

One more, words from Seth Curry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIIyO1iaxC4

And here's another article about the CP3 camp:
http://thehoopsreport.com/article.aspx?id=509

Based on the camp reports, it sounds like Prince Harry is the truth. I personally can't wait to see Barnes and Singler battle next year.

[NSDukeFan]

I just gave you four facts on my previous post but I make it easier for you. The Plumlees can't screen or set picks as well as Z or LT. Fact. The Plumlees get lost on defensive rotations.Fact. There I gave you two more reasons why Duke won't play big next year. Yes, one plumlee will start and they will at times play together but the core of our team next year is Nolan,Ki,Curry,Singler,Plumlee. I hope i have cleared some things up for you.

Am I the only one that finds it a bit ironic that you are posting how Kyle is going to spend most of his time playing the 4 in a thread that is showing how he is excelling at a point guard camp? That's as much a Fact as what you have given.

[LSanders]

I just gave you four facts on my previous post but I make it easier for you. The Plumlees can't screen or set picks as well as Z or LT. Fact. The Plumlees get lost on defensive rotations.Fact. There I gave you two more reasons why Duke won't play big next year. Yes, one plumlee will start and they will at times play together but the core of our team next year is Nolan,Ki,Curry,Singler, Plumlee. I hope i have cleared some things up for you.

How gracious of you to provide you parade of "facts." According to said facts, the Plumlees appear to be stuck in a time warp that will prevent them from learning how to rotate and anticipate better on defense despite the fact that they will have had a year of coaching and playing as the #s 1 & 2 post players prior to the start of the season. I'm also intrigued by your contention that rotating Kyle to the 4 spot (and, therefore, giving up an endless series of mismatches) is in another fact. Under K's guidance, the Singlar mismatches were among the keys to last season's performance.

Perhaps your "facts" illustrate how you would run the team if you were the coach.

Since you're not, I'll wait and see what K does with a set of perimeter players that can shoot lights out, create their own shot, drive and will place the keys to the offense in the hands of a J-Will-esque bolt of lightening who can flash into the lane and will enable the athletic Plumlees to take their games in a whole new direction.

What K did last season was extraordinary. Since he will have infinitely more weapons and mismatches to blend together this coming season, I expect nothing less than magic. Oh, and ... That's a fact.

[JBDuke]

Okay, I just moved 19 posts discussing Carolina's prospects next year to their own thread, as they constituted a reasonable discussion on a topic that bore little relation to the thread at hand.

Please use this thread to discuss the goings-on at CP3 Camp.

[MisterRoddy]

Some of this was posted on the TDD forums but I thought it should be posted over here too. These are reports from Ryan Feldman's (thehoopsreport) Twitter who was at the CP3 camp.


Wright was the best PG but better in full court. Singler, Jardine and Walker better in half court. Curry and Smith were good in both.
Keep mind that they were more or less all guards in these games. Not really any big men out there. Singler was the tallest.
Scoop Jardine: 0 pts, 1 reb
Kemba Walker: 3 pts, 1 reb
Durand Scott: 2 pts, 1 reb, 1 stl
Seth Curry: 8 pts, 2 3-pt, 2 reb
Chris Wright: 9 pts, 1 3-pt, 4 reb, 4 asst, 1 stl
Nolan Smith: 7 pts, 1 3-pt, 2 reb, 1 stl, 1 sick tamohawk dunk.
CJ Harris: 2 pts, 4 reb, 2 asst
Ari Stewart: 5 pts, 4 reb
Kyle Singler: 4 pts, 2 reb, 1 stl
Here are the stats from 5 on 5. Keep in mind they only played for about 15 mins....
about 4 hours ago via UberTwitter

(5 on 5 stats up there)
(3 on 3 down there) they played around 40 minutes.


Chris Wright: 4 pts, 8 reb
Scoop Jardine: 16 pts, 3 3's, 8 reb, 2 asst, 1 block
Kemba Walker: 19 pts, 3 3's, 5 reb
Kyle Singler: 22 pts, 5 reb, 2 asst, 1 stl
Ari Stewart: 2 pts, 7 reb
CJ Harris: 12 pts, 2 3's, 4 reb
Durand Scott: 13 pts, 4 reb, 3 asst
Nolan Smith: 16 pts, 4 3's, 3 reb, 1 stl
Seth Curry: 22 pts, 3 3's, 11 reb, 3 asst, 1 stl
Here are the stats from the 3 on 3 half court games...
about 5 hours ago via UberTwitter

Some more tweets....


Wright, Curry and Smith in that order were clearly the best in 5 on 5. RT @TheHoopsReport who stood out in the 5-on-5 sessions?

I was most impressed by Seth Curry, Kemba Walker, Harrison Barnes, Kyle Singler, Chris Wright and Kevin Anderson.
about 6 hours ago via UberTwitter

it looks like Seth Curry is the real deal.

[BD80]

Interesting that HBarnes didn't stick around for the games (3 on 3, and 5 on 5) where he was to go head-to-head against Kyle.

[ricks68]

Told ya, told ya, told ya, told ya, told ya, etc. sooooooooooooooooo:p

Not only on defense,------ but check out how many shots it takes him to score points comparable to his bro'. He is a better shooter than his brother, believe it or not.

So, the big question is really how do you keep him, Nolan, Kyrie, and Kyle on the court at the same time, and still have a mismatch with Kyle playing as a guard? I guess, you have to keep a rotation of some form within our new big 3 of our new big 4 to avoid Kyle playing against a big most of the time. And then, what about Dre?

I am quite sure Coach K will figure this all out pretty quickly. With this kind of problem, we could possibly run some good teams right out of the stadium.:D

And boy, I just hope that Mason and Ryan make that big soph year improvement jump. That, to me, is the big question mark.

ricks

[ACCBBallFan]

Missing stats on some players as there are only 9 listed and game was 5 vs. 5 unless CP3 played.

Combined

47 - Curry 30 points 13 boards, plus 3 Asst and 1 steal

37 - Singler 26 and 7 with 2 asst and 2 stl

30 - Smith 23 and 5, plus 2 stl
30 - Wright 13 and 12 plus 4 asst and 1 steal

28 - Walker 22 and 6
28 - Jardine 16 and 9, with 2 Ast and 1 block

24 - Scott 15 and 5, plus 3 Asst and 1 steal
24 - Harris 14 and 8 with 2 assists

18 - Stewart 7 and 11 rebounds

[hedevil]

I AM NOT going to go off topic here and talk about how this supports my three guard lineup theory because that subject has it's own thread. But Curry sure does sound like the real deal. It sounds like Kyle and Smith are doing great too. I can't wait to see the improvements that they make going into their senior years.

I sure would have liked to see/hear how Barnes held up against Kyle, had he hung around. Sorry if I overlooked it, but wasn't Marshall there? How did he do? Did he and Barnes both pass on the 3 on 3, 5 on 5?

[ACCBBallFan]

I AM NOT going to go off topic here and talk about how this supports my three guard lineup theory because that subject has it's own thread. But Curry sure does sound like the real deal. It sounds like Kyle and Smith are doing great too. I can't wait to see the improvements that they make going into their senior years.

I sure would have liked to see/hear how Barnes held up against Kyle, had he hung around. Sorry if I overlooked it, but wasn't Marshall there? How did he do? Did he and Barnes both pass on the 3 on 3, 5 on 5? Apparently not per an earlier post and Dorenzo Hudson not listed either.

[Greg_Newton]

Verrrry interesting that Curry appears to be outplaying Nolan (even if by a slight margin). He also looks like he gained some serious muscle over the past year - which showed in that very impressive 11-rebound line - and reports were that he was playing some very stingy D on Paul.

I've been strongly in the camp that Nolan and Kyle would be our best 2 players, but maybe Curry will be one of those rare cases that exceeds the hype. I wonder what K will do if that is the case? There's no way Kyle or Nolan lose their starting spots, and it seems inconceivable Kyrie would either. But then again, can you keep one of the best guards in the country on the bench?

In the end, I think Seth remains the 6th man, but we play fast enough and sub frequently enough that he's virtually a starter. Although maybe we will see more of Kyle at the 4 than we've thought, simply because we'll have 3 of the ~10 best guards of the country alongside him...

[BD80]

... In the end, I think Seth remains the 6th man, but we play fast enough and sub frequently enough that he's virtually a starter. Although maybe we will see more of Kyle at the 4 than we've thought, simply because we'll have 3 of the ~10 best guards of the country alongside him...

Climb on board, make yourself comfortable, there is plenty of room on this bandwagon. Although it isn't moving quickly yet, it is visibly gaining momentum.

Funny thing is, I think Seth and Nolan's "success" at the CP3 camp actually means MORE time at the 3 for Kyle.

With Nolan and Seth each able to run the point, we can sit Kyrie more frequently for "teaching moments." This is particularly true having Seth and Nolan in together. The coaches can talk to Kyrie during the game about what our opponents are doing defensively and how he should attack, and about his defensive match-up. Less minutes for Kyrie = more minutes for Kyle at the three.

What really excites me about Curry is that he has a year of practice at Duke under his belt. Kyrie is a rookie.

That said, Coach K will tend to have his five best players in the game, and he loves having ballhandling and on ball pressure. Kyrie, Nolan and Seth will see significant time together.

[theAlaskanBear]

Lets also remember that the big-man foul situation will sometimes dictate playing Kyle at the four.

[airowe]

He is a better shooter than his brother, believe it or not.

ricks

Quit pullin' my pork. Steph Curry was one of the best shooters of the last 5-10 years to come through NCAA Basketball. More athletic, I'll give ya that. Quicker first step, yeah. Better ball-handler, debatable. Let's not go overboard and say Seth is a better shooter than Steph based on a 5-on-5 game against all guards and two 6'8" forwards.

Sorry for the diversion, back to the regularly scgeduled Summertime Hype Session.

[Houston]

With Nolan and Seth each able to run the point, we can sit Kyrie more frequently for "teaching moments." This is particularly true having Seth and Nolan in together. The coaches can talk to Kyrie during the game about what our opponents are doing defensively and how he should attack, and about his defensive match-up. Less minutes for Kyrie = more minutes for Kyle at the three.

Coach is not going to frequently sit the best point guard to join the program since Jason Williams for "teaching moments". KI is going to start and play a lot from day one. Seth is going to start and Kyle with play the four.

Coach is not married to a big line-up. I believe he prefers a small line-up and he definitely likes the flexibility to switch all screens. Using the Plumlees at the 5 maximizes their time on the court as both should not be in foul trouble at the same time.

[COYS]

Coach is not going to frequently sit the best point guard to join the program since Jason Williams for "teaching moments". KI is going to start and play a lot from day one. Seth is going to start and Kyle with play the four.

Coach is not married to a big line-up. I believe he prefers a small line-up and he definitely likes the flexibility to switch all screens. Using the Plumlees at the 5 maximizes their time on the court as both should not be in foul trouble at the same time.

While I admit that I am in the Kyle at the 3 camp, I do think we'll see a decent amount of Kyle at the 4, particularly for end of game situations where we need multiple ballhandlers and free throw shooters. However, I don't think that concerns about foul trouble are reason enough to try and avoid playing mason and miles together from the start of the game. Kelly will hopefully be an asset off the bench. Hairston may warrant some time, and the rest of the minutes in the post can be awarded to Kyle. Last year both zoubs and homas were insanely foul prone, but they both played together. They also played smarter and smarter as the season went on. Mason is a potential lottery pick. Miles is an experienced junior who has started 26 games already in his career. They will both improve and be able to play together. The good news is, if one or both get into a little foul trouble, we've got a lot of other options we can explore

[ACCBBallFan]

Good arguments both ways. Those top 6 will all get starter minutes.

I think the tie breaker is between Ryan And Dre. Whichever bests the other will help determine the amount Kyle plays WF vs. PF/WF2.

For Andre Dawkins to get more PT, he need minutes at WF which will happen some already due to Plumlee foul trouble. If two of Kelly and the Plumlees are in foul trouble, Singler would move over to play PF/WF2 and Dre would share 1-2-3 PT with Kyrie, Nolan and Seth.

If Plumlees are not both in foul trouble and if Kelly is making a better relative contribution than Dre, then Kyle plays more at WF.

Tyler Thornton and Josh Hairston will get their share of time in OOC but it will dwindle in ACC play except during blowouts, as coach K reverts to an 8 man rotation. If one of Andre or Ryan is not getting it done, probably on defensive end, coach K can get by with a 7 man rotation since so many guys can play multiple positions.

Having three guys attend CP3 camp not even counting the starting PG just makes the coaching options more numerous.

[OldPhiKap]

Show me the opponent's roster, and I'll show you how the personnel plays out.

It's all about mis-matches for Kyle, with the guards breaking down the defense.

[SilkyJ]

Show me the opponent's roster, and I'll show you how the personnel plays out.


That makes sense in theory, and in some cases will be true, but at the same time Coach has said that he likes to play his best players and he also doesn't like to conform his team to matchup with opponents, but rather force the other team to matchup with us. The insertion of Duhon in 2001 is a prime example: go smaller and matchup with our quickness.

But K has done a little bit of both, particularly with Zoubek in recent years. 2 years ago, we used Zoubek very, very effectively in spot situations against other 7 footers like Alabi (FSU) and Pittman (Texas). Coach definitely chose to matchup with the other team in those cases. There were also plenty of instances this year and the year before when coach stuck with Zoubek versus smaller frontcourts to try and force the other team to match our size and rebounding. Success varied with Zoubek sometimes exploding for monster rebounding nights (maryland) and sometimes getting burned by quicker players (tracy smith/NC state). In the end though, it was clear coach was going to force others to match-up with our size, and next year it wouldn't surprise me if he tried to make teams matchup with our quickness on occasion, or even often, by going with the 3 guard lineup.

I think we'll see some of everything this year, until we figure out the formula for what works best. One thing is for sure, it seems it will be hard to keep Seth off the court next year, but it also seems hard (at least to me) to play 3 guards that are all 6'2 and under against teams with serious size in the backcourt and on the wings. So my guess is we'll see some of column A and column B (sometimes we dictate the matchups, sometimes the other team will) but at the end of the day coach will decide which players/lineups plays the best team defense and offense and that's who will stick on the court.

[MisterRoddy]

Instead of copying and pasting all the videos, I will just give you guys a link to Ryan Feldman's twitter. He has around 5 videos of Seth Curry footage (and others) from the camp (Seth 2 for 2 shooting 3's in the latest 5 on 5 video)

http://Twitter.com/thehoopsreport

Enjoy.

[jimsumner]

"I just gave you four facts on my previous post but I make it easier for you. The Plumlees can't screen or set picks as well as Z or LT. Fact. The Plumlees get lost on defensive rotations.Fact. There I gave you two more reasons why Duke won't play big next year. Yes, one plumlee will start and they will at times play together but the core of our team next year is Nolan,Ki,Curry,Singler,Plumlee. I hope i have cleared some things up for you."

Actually, those are opinions. They may well be well-informed opinions, they may be opinions many of us agree with. But they are opinions, none the less.

Citing fouls per minute or blocks per minute or plus/minus would be facts that may or may not support your opinions.

They also seem to be based on your opinion that players do not improve from one season to the next. Having sat through a multitude of opinions that neither Brian Zoubek nor Lance Thomas was worth a heck of a lot on a basketball court, my opinion is that your opinions are short-sighted and misguided. It matters little for next season's team how well Plumlee and Plumlee sat screens or rotated last season. Just how well they do it this season. You seem awfully certain they won't improve in those areas. I would be more inclined to wait and see.

And my opinion is that you haven't cleared up anything for anybody. But I do know for a fact that the opinion of the coaching staff right now is that a Plumlee, Plumlee, Singler starting front court is more likely than not.

[G man]

Some things that we have known for a while is that K starts and plays his best players regardless of position, but we also know that he does what is best for the team to succeed. Now those two things usually are the same, but occasionally they aren't. That being said why not go with an offense similar to a Villanova. It would allow us to go with our three best guards and a face up forward on the perimeter and one guy on the block. This would open up a ton of driving lanes with the ability to kick the ball out for the threes. I would not be opposed to that Villanova has had some success running a system like that, but they have not won a national title playing this way.
I personally think that we will change styles to the situation. I think we will force others to match up with us. This will be very difficult with the caliber of players we have at DUKE. Curry is too good not to get a ton of burn. Same for Kyle, Kyrie, Nolan, and yes the Plumlee's. It will all work out. No reason to get all worked up.

[PhillyDuke]

The thing that attracted me to Curry in the first place, is that I noticed he could spot-up from anywhere on the court, and that he could shoot on the move. This is a rare combination. JJ Redick could not shoot on the move. For that matter, Larry Bird couldn't shoot on the move, which was the only way you could make him miss. Larry Legend only needed a blink of an eye to get it off, and if he got it, most of the time that bad boy went in!!!!!

[SilkyJ]

JJ Redick could not shoot on the move.

Um, no. Not really the point of this thread, but by his Junior and Senior year JJ had become incredibly good at shooting off the dribble while moving laterally as well as running (sprinting) off screens and then catching, squaring and shooting all in one motion while still falling to one side or fading away.

[Big Pappa]

Um, no. Not really the point of this thread, but by his Junior and Senior year JJ had become incredibly good at shooting off the dribble while moving laterally as well as running (sprinting) off screens and then catching, squaring and shooting all in one motion while still falling to one side or fading away.


JJ Redick could not shoot on the move.

Silk is right that it isn't the point of this thread, but I have to address that. Saying JJ couldn't shoot on the move is ridiculous. He could hit a 3 with two guys in his face falling out of bounds after running through two screens. Take a gander (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSVO52dfSKo).

[Newton_14]

"I just gave you four facts on my previous post but I make it easier for you. The Plumlees can't screen or set picks as well as Z or LT. Fact. The Plumlees get lost on defensive rotations.Fact. There I gave you two more reasons why Duke won't play big next year. Yes, one plumlee will start and they will at times play together but the core of our team next year is Nolan,Ki,Curry,Singler,Plumlee. I hope i have cleared some things up for you."

Actually, those are opinions. They may well be well-informed opinions, they may be opinions many of us agree with. But they are opinions, none the less.

Citing fouls per minute or blocks per minute or plus/minus would be facts that may or may not support your opinions.

They also seem to be based on your opinion that players do not improve from one season to the next. Having sat through a multitude of opinions that neither Brian Zoubek nor Lance Thomas was worth a heck of a lot on a basketball court, my opinion is that your opinions are short-sighted and misguided. It matters little for next season's team how well Plumlee and Plumlee sat screens or rotated last season. Just how well they do it this season. You seem awfully certain they won't improve in those areas. I would be more inclined to wait and see.

And my opinion is that you haven't cleared up anything for anybody. But I do know for a fact that the opinion of the coaching staff right now is that a Plumlee, Plumlee, Singler starting front court is more likely than not.

You are correct on all counts Jim. Most of all on the point that Cockaboo did not clear up anything for me in his rant.

Meanwhile back at the CP3 camp, any reports of Kyle enhancing his post skills there, as surely he signed up for CP3 to prepare himself to move back into the post?;)

[tbyers11]

Nice write-up on the CP3 camp (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/luke_winn/06/14/paul.camp/index.html) by Luke Winn. Unlike Gene Wojciechowski at the K academy, he didn't play :)

A good amount of Duke stuff including praise for Seth and Nolan and an interesting bit on Nolan's unorthodox bowling technique:D

[MisterRoddy]

Final thoughts on CP3 Camp

http://thehoopsreport.com/article.aspx?id=510

Nice quote on Seth:

One player who really shined was Duke guard Seth Curry. He does a great job of creating his own shots. He can pull up from as deep as NBA range, he can finish well at the rim, he has a nice mid-range game, including the ability to make a floater, and he does a nice job getting open off screens. Curry isn't afraid to shoot at all. He may take a lot of shots but they will usually be good shots and he will put up a lot of points at Duke this season

EDIT (different from post above)

[SilkyJ]

Nice write-up on the CP3 camp (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/luke_winn/06/14/paul.camp/index.html) by Luke Winn. Unlike Gene Wojciechowski at the K academy, he didn't play :)

A good amount of Duke stuff including praise for Seth and Nolan and an interesting bit on Nolan's unorthodox bowling technique:D


Final thoughts on CP3 Camp

http://thehoopsreport.com/article.aspx?id=510

Nice quote on Seth:


EDIT (different from post above)

Great stuff all around guys. Thanks for the many links...didn't really get the point of 2 paragraphs about bowling, though it was interesting that the 3 players he singled out were Nolan, Kyle and Seth, for various reasons.

Seth certainly seemed to be one of the stars of the camp and while many if not most of us thought he'd be a 6th man type this year, the buzz seems to be even stronger after this camp.

Its weird being this excited about the year that just ended and the one we have coming up!!

[ACCBBallFan]

"I just gave you four facts on my previous post but I make it easier for you. The Plumlees can't screen or set picks as well as Z or LT. Fact. The Plumlees get lost on defensive rotations.Fact. There I gave you two more reasons why Duke won't play big next year. Yes, one plumlee will start and they will at times play together but the core of our team next year is Nolan,Ki,Curry,Singler,Plumlee. I hope i have cleared some things up for you."

Actually, those are opinions. They may well be well-informed opinions, they may be opinions many of us agree with. But they are opinions, none the less.

Citing fouls per minute or blocks per minute or plus/minus would be facts that may or may not support your opinions.

They also seem to be based on your opinion that players do not improve from one season to the next. Having sat through a multitude of opinions that neither Brian Zoubek nor Lance Thomas was worth a heck of a lot on a basketball court, my opinion is that your opinions are short-sighted and misguided. It matters little for next season's team how well Plumlee and Plumlee sat screens or rotated last season. Just how well they do it this season. You seem awfully certain they won't improve in those areas. I would be more inclined to wait and see.

And my opinion is that you haven't cleared up anything for anybody. But I do know for a fact that the opinion of the coaching staff right now is that a Plumlee, Plumlee, Singler starting front court is more likely than not.

Totally agree with Jim on all counts. Not only do players improve, but competition changes with much fewer dominant ACC bigs than last couple of years.

Just posted links in another thread so will only refer to it -

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21550&page=3

Not sure how this solves the big or small debate though, and I suspect coach K will use a blend of both depending on the situation.

Six guys virtually assured of starter minutes Kyrie, Nolan, Seth, Kyle and each Plumlee and I would expect a goodly amount of PT for Dre and Ryan too with more PT for Josh and Tyler in OOC than once ACC play begins.

So that 8 man rotation can be structured to play 3 small or 3 big, even 4 of each but that is a long shot. Suffice it to say coach K and staff will have plenty of options for any situation they encounter.

[MChambers]

And my opinion is that you haven't cleared up anything for anybody. But I do know for a fact that the opinion of the coaching staff right now is that a Plumlee, Plumlee, Singler starting front court is more likely than not.
Jim, are you saying that the opinion of the coaching staff is more important than those of here on the board, or than one of us here on the board? ;)

[Indoor66]

Jim, are you saying that the opinion of the coaching staff is more important than those of here on the board, or than one of us here on the board?

No, No, NO. It cannot be. What about all of the random opinions posted... the thoughtful and thoughtless prattle? Jim must be wrong. The staff must read and heed these thoughts and opines. :eek: :confused: :rolleyes: :mad:

[Jarhead]

No, No, NO. It cannot be. What about all of the random opinions posted... the thoughtful and thoughtless prattle? Jim must be wrong. The staff must read and heed these thoughts and opines. :eek: :confused: :rolleyes: :mad:
Nicely done Indoor. A thread of 53 posts based mostly on conjecture. I wonder why I even bother.

[camion]

Nicely done Indoor. A thread of 53 posts based mostly on conjecture. I wonder why I even bother.

I would conjecture that you bother because it's summertime and there ain't much going on.

At least that's what I read in my tea leaves this morning.

[roywhite]

Nicely done Indoor. A thread of 53 posts based mostly on conjecture. I wonder why I even bother.

Really? I was about to commend this thread for substance, at least in an off-season context. Actual reports and videos of Duke players (and UNC players) in action.

[hedevil]

WOW!!

Let the sarcasm fly.

The last few posters seem to have links that I have not seen. PLEASE oh PLEASE post em if you got em. So coach K has announced his starting lineup? Based on the sarcasm posted I would think so. Please post them. Secondly, anyone who has read my posts can see that I believe that K will go small in the second half of the season. If proven wrong, I will gladly admit to it. I assume you all will too, right? I think if you ask coach K what his starting lineup will be come late season, he would be honest and say that he doesn't know. REMEMBER LAST YEAR? No one saw that lineup coming. The season will determine lineup.

Please don't post the interview of coach K saying that Kyrie will be playing with Kyle, Nolan, and the Plumlees. I'm sure that we will see that lineup along with a number of other lineups, just like we did last year. The questions remain, what lineup will we see most often after the minutes have been filtered? Will coach K see enough from Miles and Ryan to believe that they can contribute more to the lineup than Curry, Nolan, and Irving playing together, as opposed to alternating 2 of the 3 guards? Well I guess we don't need the season, some people seem to have all the answers figured out for K (sarcastically).

As to staying on topic, Curry seems like he'll be a tough one for anyone to beat out for minutes.

[Greg_Newton]

The last few posters seem to have links that I have not seen. PLEASE oh PLEASE post em if you got em.

Not to be a "smartarse", but here's your link: http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=415461&postcount=42

If you trust any other articles you read, you should trust Jim's posts. Same goes for watzone, and probably others I'm forgetting. They are both established sportswriters who have covered Duke for quite some time.

[SilkyJ]

WOW!!

Let the sarcasm fly.

The last few posters seem to have links that I have not seen. PLEASE oh PLEASE post em if you got em. So coach K has announced his starting lineup? Based on the sarcasm posted I would think so. Please post them.

I have no idea who you are responding to or exactly what you are trying to say. Use of the quote feature would greatly help there.

[hedevil]

Greg Newton - Thanks for the link. However, I don't put much weight behind an opinion that's posted in the context of winning an argument. Nowhere have I seen coach K say what his starting lineup will be. Once someone shows me that, I will stand corrected. As of now, opinions are nothing more than opinions regardless of the source. The facts will be determined during the season. Until then I will continue to give my opinions, wait for the second half of the season to come around, then see if my predictions come to fruition.

As far as this topic goes, from now on I will post my lineup predictions in the big or small thread where they belong. Sorry board.

I look forward to seeing any additional links on how the camp went. :D

[-jk]

Greg Newton - Thanks for the link. However, I don't put much weight behind an opinion that's posted in the context of winning an argument. Nowhere have I seen coach K say what his starting lineup will be. Once someone shows me that, I will stand corrected. As of now, opinions are nothing more than opinions regardless of the source. The facts will be determined during the season. Until then I will continue to give my opinions, wait for the second half of the season to come around, then see if my predictions come to fruition.

As far as this topic goes, from now on I will post my lineup predictions in the big or small thread where they belong. Sorry board.

I look forward to seeing any additional links on how the camp went. :D

I'll point out that Jim Sumner (http://jimsumner.net/) has more, and better, sources and qualifications than almost every member of this board.

-jk

[hedevil]

Just to clarify, I am not dismissing anyone's qualifications nor their history of reporting accurate info. I do however think that coach K is the bottom line when it comes to all things Duke basketball. When HE says what the regular lineup will be, then all will be put to rest. The rest is just speculation. I don't think that last years' end of season rotation was what coach K expected at the start of that season either. Just like all coaches, he too adjusts to things on the fly sometimes.

The minutes distribution will probably fluctuate for most of the guys in the first half of the season. I'm mainly speculating as to what I think will be the reality (small lineup) in the later part of the season. I don't doubt that Jim is very reliable (I trust the members that he is) when it comes to these things, but if coach doesn't know what the future will bring, no one else can either.

I'm not doing very well staying on topic here huh.:D
Sorry, I get suckered in whenever it seems like a response is warranted. I do love a good hearted debate of opinions with fellow dukies, even though I do seem to be in the really small minority on this issue. I guess it's a good way to kill time between seasons.:)

[ACCBBallFan]

Actually your opinion other than the wisdom of sparring with Jim Sumner, that Duke will play very small is shared by many.

Fact of the matter though is that there will be no single either/or formation and Duke will play all of the above based on the situation, sometimes by design and sometimes by necessity for example when Plumlees pick up cheap fouls or one is injured hopefully just for part of a game.

With an oversupply of guards and a no room for error number of forwards, the smaller lineups many favor will happen. The Duke depth among PF/C is now almost identical to UNC with addition of Knox and McAdoo as neither necessarily wants to play Singler or Barnes at PF but would have the ability to do so if that is what is best for the team.

The other ACC teams are configured such that it is not impossible to play the two talented seniors Smith and Singler a positon numbered one higher than their individual best position of 2 for Smith and 3 for Singler to make room for 2 prime (or primo) Curry and PT for Dawkins.

So it is up to Ryan Kelly to make that the second preferred option as both Plumlees will each get PT at center anyway as fouls mount, and to catch their breath in up tempo style.

[MisterRoddy]

You guys saw some game action, here is over 3 and a half minutes worth of drills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyBNQYzQuh4

[sandinmyshoes]

When I opened this thread I was afraid that all I'd find would be bleach report style fan fawning. But there have been some great links here. Thanks!

[DukieBoy]

You guys saw some game action, here is over 3 and a half minutes worth of drills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyBNQYzQuh4

Lots of Singler and Nolan in there. Didn't see much of Seth. Actually, I recall seeing more of Stephen Curry than Seth. Good video though

[MisterRoddy]

Lots of Singler and Nolan in there. Didn't see much of Seth. Actually, I recall seeing more of Stephen Curry than Seth. Good video though

Well we already know that Seth was impressive from all accounts of the cp3 camp. i think it was good to see Nolan and Kyle working on their handles and agility. Specifically, it looks like Nolan's ball handling skills have improved. We might see him giving Kyrie some possessions off at the point (not only helping Kyrie and the team but also improving his draft status by proving to NBA scouts that he can play the point).