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UVaAmbassador
05-23-2007, 10:16 PM
Holy freakin crap. Walt, a new traitor in the midtst, and the first future flash, can anyone really ask for anything more?

OZZIE4DUKE
05-23-2007, 10:22 PM
Holy freakin crap. Walt, a new traitor in the midtst, and the first future flash, can anyone really ask for anything more?

Since you started a new finale thread, I'll ask the question JimSumner beat me to in the other one. Who saw that coming? Sure as heck not me. But I loved every aspect of the show - 1 hour and 58 minutes of feel good, Hurley was magnificent, everyone who deserved it, got it, except Charlie, but that was very noble and had a peaceful feeling to it.

Jfrosh
05-23-2007, 10:34 PM
Spoilers









Who saw that coming? Sure as heck not me. .

That was one of the few things I saw coming. I couldn't place the timeline early on and figured it must be the future. That was just classic. Exactly what a season finale should be. It had everything. I especially love how they tie everything together, including the bus episode, which at the time seemed like a filler. It answered many questions and resolved a lot of conflict (mostly by killing everyone), and at the same time posed just as many new questions and conflicts.
What was up with Locke? He seemed like such a badass and then just backed down.

Jarhead
05-23-2007, 10:35 PM
I am just to old for all of this pressure. First there is the annual pause for Duke hoops, and now I have to to wait until January to find out what is going on in the future. Great show, and I'd bet that we see Charlie again. Whose obit was that? And who is it that she has to get back to? Lots of questions answered, but they sure left us with more. Let the speculation begin. Jason, a little help, please.

BuschDevil
05-23-2007, 10:57 PM
I, for one, did not see that coming. I am going to go into major 'Lost' withdrawls by this time next week... & they will last until January! Nooooooooooooo!!!!:eek:

Lord Ash
05-23-2007, 11:02 PM
The obit was John Locke. No one showing up for HIS funeral, I'll tell you that. Apparently something will happen on the island that will transform Jack from "I will get everyone off this island!" to "I want to get back there!" I just wonder what.

OZZIE4DUKE
05-24-2007, 05:58 AM
The obit was John Locke. No one showing up for HIS funeral, I'll tell you that. Apparently something will happen on the island that will transform Jack from "I will get everyone off this island!" to "I want to get back there!" I just wonder what.

That makes sense that is was Locke's obit. Of course, not knowing it was the future until the end prevented that guess during the show. I would think that Kate had to get back to Sawyer.

One thing I did notice and comment to myself about was Jack's cell phone. I thought to myself when he used it "that is way to sleek and thin to have been out in 2004. It is an anachronism." No, it wasnt, I just didn't connect the dots too well and put it current time, but the clue was there. Would have been really cool if it had been an iPhone - it wasn't because it was a flip phone.

As for why he wants to go back to the island, his life is a drug addicted (oxycodone) mess in the real world. And if they were rescued back in late 2004 or early 2005, a few months after the plane crashed in what? August 2004, then it being 2007 pretty much makes sense giving Jack enough time to travel the world on his "gold pass" and get so messed up.

Dukerati
05-24-2007, 08:02 AM
*Spoilers*

Amazing, amazing episode. Are people throwing out theories or actual facts? How do you know that it was Locke's funeral? And that Walt was Jacob? I'm still sorting through my thoughts but I will say that I loved the flash forward and the death of Charlie (I think he's really dead). My three nitpiks of this finale were:

1) Why does Mikhail never die? This had better get explained and in some way that actually is feasible.

2) Charlie's death. He had more than enough time to escape the grenade. Why didn't he just run out of the room and shut the door? Why didn't he and Desmond just jump into the sub pool and swim out?

3) January? Ahhhh, too long.

JasonEvans
05-24-2007, 08:27 AM
The phone was the dead giveaway that it was a "flash-forward" not a flashback. My wife mentioned something about it and said she was surprised that they would get something like that wrong. I smiled and said, "yeah, their attention to detail is usually better than that." She turned to me and said, "unless it is not a mistake." I paused and said, "Bingo."

I am not sure what we make of Jack's refernce to his father being alive. I think that may have been a drug-induced mistake, not a sign that Christian Sheppard will somehow be brought back to life.

Whose funeral was it? I think Locke is a decent guess, but I have a hard time seeing Locke EVER leaving the island. If he did leave, I think he would have people at his funeral. Locke has had people love him and he is not someone who pushes everyone away. If we are talking about someone who would not have a single soul at his funeral, I think Sawyer is a better guess.

So, who was Kate with? Maybe it is Nathan Fillian, the cop she was engaged to. Maybe it is someone else who was not on the island. We have so little to go on there. Kate said, "I haev to get back to him." How do we know she is talking about a spouse/lover? What if she is talking about her child?

I think Mikhail is dead. Charlie is dead too, though we may get to see him in a flashback.

Questions-- why was Penny Whitmore transmitting on that frequency at that moment? That seemed more than a little contrived. Great shocking moment though. Charlie calmly writing "Not Penny's Boat" on his hand as he waited to die was incredibly powerful!! My wife wass bothered by that scene and said Charlie could have saved himself by merely going outside the door before he closed it, but I disagree. Charlie knew his fate. He was happy to take it if it meant the people he loved would get rescued. Thanks to the flash-forward, we know at least some of them will get off the island-- and I think it is a safe bet that Claire and Aaron are two of them.

I wonder what Smoke-Walt told Locke to get him to kill Naomi. I imagine we will see that in a flashback very early in next season. I liked Locke walking away after not killing Jack. He did not stick around because he is not part of the Lostaways anymore. Nice touch. By the way, did anyone get the fact that Locke was OK because he had been shot in the kidney... but his kidney had been removed years ago so it was not a fatal shot? I wonder if it will come out that Ben intentionally shot Locke in a spot that would not be fatal.

What do the Lostaways do with Ben? I think they will have to set him free and team up with The Others to fight off the folks Naomi was calling. Ben keeps on saying he is a good guy. He does some nasty stuff, but it would be just like the show to turn him into someone the Lostaways need to survive.

I wonder if Naomi/Jack placed a phone call to The Dharma Initiative. 15+ years after being "purged" from the island, are they ready to come back?

I hate that we will have to wait until February (not Janaury) to pick this up, but I have faith the wait will certainly be worth it. The story is going in some exciting directions and we get treated to brilliant writing and acting along the way. What a fantastic show!

-Jason "more later" Evans

feldspar
05-24-2007, 08:32 AM
By the way, did anyone get the fact that Locke was OK because he had been shot in the kidney... but his kidney had been removed years ago so it was not a fatal shot? I wonder if it will come out that Ben intentionally shot Locke in a spot that would not be fatal.



As I've said before, Ben didn't fatally wound Locke because he fears Jacob, and he knows that Jacob feels some sort of favoritism for Locke.

And, lo and behold, Jacob (through Walt a.k.a Smokie) saves Locke.


I wonder if Naomi/Jack placed a phone call to The Dharma Initiative. 15+ years after being "purged" from the island, are they ready to come back?

That's my guess as well. The Hansos are trying to get back to the island, at the very least to try and find out what the hell happened when, all of a sudden they lost contact with the initiative.

jkidd31
05-24-2007, 08:35 AM
Charlie had to die to make Desmond vision complete. He wanted Claire and Aaron to be rescued.

A couple other things:

I think this was mentioned but in the flash fowrad Jack mentions his dad being more drunk then him? I'll be curious how they explain that.

It was Kate Jack was calling on the cell, not Sarah

That seemed like a Volvo Kate was driving when she arrived to meet Jack, not a bad ride for a fugitive.

My gut tells me the obit was either Locke, or Ben's. Jack would have gained an appreciation for what been was doing given what happened upon his return.

WOuld a grenade in the water really have been able to blow the glass window? Plausible Mikhal got away since he was nailed with a spear, but I think the grenade did him in.

Awesome scene where Sawyer shoots Tom. He told him in a previous episode he owed him IIRC.

JasonEvans
05-24-2007, 08:42 AM
*Spoilers*

Amazing, amazing episode. Are people throwing out theories or actual facts? How do you know that it was Locke's funeral? And that Walt was Jacob? I'm still sorting through my thoughts but I will say that I loved the flash forward and the death of Charlie (I think he's really dead). My three nitpiks of this finale were:

1) Why does Mikhail never die? This had better get explained and in some way that actually is feasible.

2) Charlie's death. He had more than enough time to escape the grenade. Why didn't he just run out of the room and shut the door? Why didn't he and Desmond just jump into the sub pool and swim out?

3) January? Ahhhh, too long.

We are speculating that Walt was the smoke-monster taking human form-- the way it did when it was Yemi and when it was Kate's horse and Jack's father. Is the smoke-monster controlled by Jacob or connected to Jacob? I dunno.

Mikhail is dead now. He was blown up by the grenade. I agree that bringing him back to life after a spear-gun in his chest is sorta weak, but he is a resilliant dude. He is gone for good now though.

Charlie had to shot to door to keep Desmond from coming in there to talk to Penny. There was no time to explain and keep Desmond out. If Charlie does not close the door, the grenade/flood would have killed Desmond too. Plus, Charlie knew it was his fate to die here so that Claire and Aaron could live.

-Jason "not January, February" Evans

Dukerati
05-24-2007, 09:09 AM
We are speculating that Walt was the smoke-monster taking human form-- the way it did when it was Yemi and when it was Kate's horse and Jack's father. Is the smoke-monster controlled by Jacob or connected to Jacob? I dunno.

Mikhail is dead now. He was blown up by the grenade. I agree that bringing him back to life after a spear-gun in his chest is sorta weak, but he is a resilliant dude. He is gone for good now though.

Charlie had to shot to door to keep Desmond from coming in there to talk to Penny. There was no time to explain and keep Desmond out. If Charlie does not close the door, the grenade/flood would have killed Desmond too. Plus, Charlie knew it was his fate to die here so that Claire and Aaron could live.

-Jason "not January, February" Evans


February! Even worse! Good explanation Jason on why Charlie "had" to die but it still seems a little forced to me. The looking glass would not have flooded immediately and since Desmond and Charlie swam into the base, I am assuming they had the ability to swim back up. Why do they need the diving gear in the first place? Even if Charlie died, that does not mean Claire and Aaron would not have been rescued. Desmond saved Charlie multiple times without effecting the general course of things. I really started to like Charlie towards the end (as the writers made Charlie eminently likeable to make his death more powerful) and was hoping he could escape with Claire and Aaron. Then Desmond could have got another "vision" of Charlie dieing but when he was old and gray. Oh well, RIP Charlie.

alteran
05-24-2007, 09:11 AM
My question is did the Russian cyclops blow himself up as well..??

My theory is no, he didn't blow himself up.

1) He survived being blow'd up worse at the radio station Locke exploded.

2) He survived the sonic barrier which stops the smoke creature.

3) He survived being shot in the chest with a spear gun, and apparently was well enough to swim IN SALT WATER WITH AN OPEN WOUND (ouch), and if that wasn't enough, he taunted Charlie as well.

So, of course he did not blow himself up, although one imagines that he couldn't have been more than four feet away from the grenade when it exploded at the pressure window (or the grenade would have missed the window entirely.)

Also, he's survived four normally fatal murder attempts/explosions, he's Russian, and he's got weird eyes. Remind you all of anyone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigori_Rasputin)? ;-)

feldspar
05-24-2007, 09:16 AM
Mikhail is dead now. He was blown up by the grenade. I agree that bringing him back to life after a spear-gun in his chest is sorta weak, but he is a resilliant dude. He is gone for good now though.


Naw. I'm not convinced.

Perhaps the writers will use some of the island's mysticism to explain why it's so hard to kill Mikhail (does he have Richard Alpert-like longevity???) but I'm convinced he's not dead. Perhaps he has a missing hand to go with his missing eye (how cool was that!!!)

oso diablo
05-24-2007, 09:26 AM
saw on another board the speculation that the obit/article was for a Jeremy Bentham. A heretofore unknown character named after a philosopher (like Locke & Desmond). I'm guessing he's the leader of Naomi's group.

mr. synellinden
05-24-2007, 09:41 AM
I have never been that mesmerized and awestruck by a TV show. Talk about a season finale that delivered on every level. I really was speechless after it ended. Although I did make a comment when I first saw Jack use his cell phone that it was a razr and they weren't on the market in 2004 - so I wasn't surprised that it was the future.

There is so much to discuss and question that my head is spinning. But one very minor thing that interested me about the show is the fact that Locke and Jack (who have been consistenly positioned as the two main characters/focal points of the show -- Faith vs. Reason, etc.) both were on the verge of suicide in this episode, only to have intervening events change the course of their destiny, which I think on a much bigger scale might be an overriding theme of the show.

I do believe that in this future, Jack's dad is alive. I don't think he'd be drugged up or deranged enough to make a comment that mistakes his father being alive. I guess it's possible, but assuming he is alive, I think we are dealing with an issue of events on the island having the ability to affect the future and the past (since Christian died before they got there), which plays into the Desmond flashback time continuum issue and his visions, or there is an alternate/parllel universe thing going on.

This is really a shot in the dark but, is it possible that when you arrive on the island time stops for each individual - in a sense you have entered a different space-time continuum, but when they go back to the real world - by going back through the looking glass - the island has the ability to send you back to any point in time? That would allow people to resolve personal issues in a different manner than the way that led them to undesirable places in their lives. For example, could Jack go back to the "present" at a time that allows him to restore his relationship with his dad and prevent him from going on his death drinking binge in Australia? Even if he did, it seems that Christian is not staying on the wagon. This might explain Desmond's excursion through time when the hatch exploded . Again - this is a shot in the dark - just trying to make some sense of things.

February is too long. During the show last night I kept thinking, I want to find out what happens but I don't want the show to end.

feldspar
05-24-2007, 09:51 AM
I do believe that in this future, Jack's dad is alive. I don't think he'd be drugged up or deranged enough to make a comment that mistakes his father being alive. I guess it's possible, but assuming he is alive, I think we are dealing with an issue of events on the island having the ability to affect the future and the past (since Christian died before they got there), which plays into the Desmond flashback time continuum issue and his visions, or there is an alternate/parllel universe thing going on.

Christian is dead. Dead dead dead. The producers have said this over and over and over.

jimbonelson
05-24-2007, 10:01 AM
loved the show....did they have enough tv breaks ??

mr. synellinden
05-24-2007, 10:08 AM
Christian is dead. Dead dead dead. The producers have said this over and over and over.

They've said that he is dead and not on the island. But that leaves open the possibility that he is alive in a "parallel" existence that can be accessed either from the island or because of events that occur on the island.

I know what they've said, but I am not convinced that Christian is not alive in the flash-forward we saw.

Worth reading: http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20040061,00.html

At the end, Jensen agrees with Feldspar that Christian is dead dead dead dead.

BlueDiablo
05-24-2007, 10:30 AM
They've said that he is dead and not on the island. But that leaves open the possibility that he is alive in a "parallel" existence that can be accessed either from the island or because of events that occur on the island.

I know what they've said, but I am not convinced that Christian is not alive in the flash-forward we saw.

Worth reading: http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20040061,00.html

At the end, Jensen agrees with Feldspar that Christian is dead dead dead dead.

I really dislike the idea of parallel universes, alternate pasts and alternate futures. I really hope that the version of post-island Jack is exactly what we can expect to happen a few years after he leaves the island. I also kind of hope this isn't where the story ends, though I'll be satisfied if this ending makes sense from what we'll learn in the next three seasons.

dukeblueyes
05-24-2007, 10:59 AM
Amazing episode... I almost hope that the flash-forward is what MAY happen in the future if things continue along the current path (otherwise, it's way too depressing... and Jack does NOT look good with a beard). I know the alternate time lines theory is pretty weak, but with Desmond's trippy flashbacks, there is SOMETHING going on that can alter reality.
What was the "huge, major, WOW" spoiler that was posted a few weeks ago? I managed to resist that thread's temptation, but now I'm just curious as what might have diminished a thrilling episode.

JasonEvans
05-24-2007, 11:08 AM
Amazing episode... I almost hope that the flash-forward is what MAY happen in the future if things continue along the current path (otherwise, it's way too depressing... and Jack does NOT look good with a beard). I know the alternate time lines theory is pretty weak, but with Desmond's trippy flashbacks, there is SOMETHING going on that can alter reality.

What was the "huge, major, WOW" spoiler that was posted a few weeks ago? I managed to resist that thread's temptation, but now I'm just curious as what might have diminished a thrilling episode.

I don't think they will treat the flash-forward as a possible outcome. I think this is what happens -- FOR SURE. I'll be interested to see how much they use this flash-forward device to tell us stories. I think it is a great idea. My wife had complained a while ago that once they get off the island, she is invested enough in these characters so that she wants to see what happens next. Perhaps this is a way of doing that while still keeping us grounded on the island. Interesting challenge for the writers, that's for sure!!

As for the huge, wow spoiler-- I was the one who posted it and it was a foiler. It was that Jack shoots Kate in a friendly fire incident while fighting with the Others and that Sayid is killed in the fight with the Others. I am quite glad it proved to be wrong.

I found out it was wrong about a week ago but chose not to say anything about it. I am seriously re-thinking my view on spoilers right now. I knew about the episode being a "flash-forward" and knew just about everything else. I think I probably got less of a "wow" out of the episode as a result and I think I am gonna give up on the spoiler thingy.

-Jason "Damon Lindelhoff is really angry that the flash-forward was spoiled on the internet" Evans

GDT
05-24-2007, 11:28 AM
Christian is dead. Dead dead dead. The producers have said this over and over and over.

Um, I think the producers qualified their statement by saying that they "may be using the word 'dead' in a sense we [the audience] don't fully understand yet." At least according to Lostpedia (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Christian_Shephard)and some other sources.

I can't see Locke leaving the island under any circumstances but I can see Jack forcing Ben to leave if everyone can't go. That way, he can't 'run' the island anymore. Ben dies alone, Jack asks him for forgiveness on the bridge because he now regrets not believing him. Either that or Jack helps Jacob off the island and he's in the coffin. But who knows.

feldspar
05-24-2007, 11:41 AM
Um, I think the producers qualified their statement by saying that they "may be using the word 'dead' in a sense we [the audience] don't fully understand yet." At least according to Lostpedia (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Christian_Shephard)and some other sources.
I think that's probably in reference to the Smoke monster being able to manifest itself as real people, be they dead or alive.

mr. synellinden
05-24-2007, 01:45 PM
Okay, without venturing too far into really complicated physics (99.9% of which is beyond my comprehension, I was particularly intrigued by what Jeff Jensen of EW wrote about Hermann Minkowski with respect to four dimensions of space-time:

The castaways cheered their fearless-leader hero as a friendly voice on the other end named Minkowski told him that rescue was on the way. (''Minkowski,'' no doubt, is a nod to Hermann Minkowski's theory of four-dimensional space-time, which has inspired many Lost theories.)

So, I went to wikipedia to read about Minkowski and that led me to the following related concept of the twin paradox. And with all the twin talk on Lost, I thought it was somewhat intriguing. It may be too far-fetched for some, but I find in interesting to consider:

Twin paradox
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
In his famous work on Special Relativity in 1905, Albert Einstein predicted that when two clocks were brought together and synchronised, and then one was moved away and brought back, the clock which had undergone the travelling would be found to be lagging behind the clock which had stayed put. Einstein considered this to be a natural consequence of Special Relativity, not a weird paradox as some suggested, and in 1911, he restated and elaborated on this result in the following form:

“ If we placed a living organism in a box ... one could arrange that the organism, after any arbitrary lengthy flight, could be returned to its original spot in a scarcely altered condition, while corresponding organisms which had remained in their original positions had already long since given way to new generations. For the moving organism the lengthy time of the journey was a mere instant, provided the motion took place with approximately the speed of light. (in Resnick and Halliday, 1992) ”


In 1911, Paul Langevin made this concept more vivid and comprehensible by his now-iconic story / thought experiment of the twins, one of whom is an astronaut and the other a homebody. The astronaut brother undertakes a long space journey in a rocket moving at almost the speed of light, while the other remains on Earth. When the travelling brother finally returns to Earth, it is discovered that he is younger than his sibling, that is to say, if the brothers had been carrying the clocks mentioned above, the astronaut’s clock would be found to be lagging behind the clock which had stayed with the Earth-bound brother, meaning that less time had elapsed for the astronaut than for the other. Langevin explained the different aging rates as follows: “Only the traveller has undergone an acceleration that changed the direction of his velocity”.

Langevin means here that while it is doubtless that the twins experienced many things differently to each other in the years they were apart, there was only one event which the astronaut experienced which his brother did not and which had a direct bearing on the time differential between them: the astronaut experienced the acceleration necessary to turn his rocket around and head back to Earth, and his brother on Earth did not. The significance of the “Twins Paradox” hinges on this one crucial detail of asymmetry between them. (NOTE: Everyday English has "acceleration" as referring to "speeding up" only, but in scientific circles it equally refers to "slowing down" so that all the physical changes in speed and direction necessary to get the rocket to come back - slowing down, stopping, turning around, speeding up again - can be covered by the umbrella term "acceleration". This is the way the word is used in this article.)

It should be stressed that neither Einstein nor Langevin considered these deeply counter-intuitive results to be literally paradoxical. A paradox in logical and scientific usage refers to results which are inherently contradictory, that is, logically impossible, and both men argued that the time differential illustrated by the story of the twins was an entirely natural and explainable phenomenon.

JasonEvans
05-24-2007, 03:26 PM
Every week after Lost, it is certainly worth checking out the Begging To Differ (http://www.beggingtodiffer.com/2007/05/24/lost-through-the-looking-glass-season-3-finale#more-3210) blog entry on it. As always, lots of good stuff in there, including the fact that the name of the Funeral Home was an anagram for Flash Foreward. Cool!

But, the best nugget this week comes from one of the comments attached to the blog. One of the readers suggests that the body in the coffin is Ben. I cannot believe how much sense this makes!!

Jack says he is neither family nor friend to the dead person. Sawyer, Locke, and just about anyone else among the Lostaways would certainly be a "friend." I mean, after all they have been through-- can you imagine Jack or Kate skipping Sawyer's funeral?!?! Not a chance.

Ben's funeral-- no one would attend that except members of The Others and who knows how many of them will survive and if any of them will ever leave the island.

Also, recall that this is someone Jack is mourning. If Jack is desperate to get back to the island, and if Ben had also been removed from the island, wouldn't Jack see Ben as someone crucial to getting back? Jack may see Ben as his last, best hope and then reading that Ben has died would be the kind of thing that might drive Jack to contemplate suicide.

Hmmmmm.

-Jason "I really like this theory!" Evans

Lord Ash
05-24-2007, 03:56 PM
Yeah, after I posted about thinking it was Locke it occurred to me that maybe the only person we've seen who would understand that tearing need to be back on the island was Ben, and lord knows NO ONE would be at his funeral. A good bet, if it is even something we can guess at already.

mr. synellinden
05-24-2007, 04:10 PM
Every week after Lost, it is certainly worth checking out the Begging To Differ (http://www.beggingtodiffer.com/2007/05/24/lost-through-the-looking-glass-season-3-finale#more-3210) blog entry on it. As always, lots of good stuff in there, including the fact that the name of the Funeral Home was an anagram for Flash Foreward. Cool!

But, the best nugget this week comes from one of the comments attached to the blog. One of the readers suggests that the body in the coffin is Ben. I cannot believe how much sense this makes!!

Jack says he is neither family nor friend to the dead person. Sawyer, Locke, and just about anyone else among the Lostaways would certainly be a "friend." I mean, after all they have been through-- can you imagine Jack or Kate skipping Sawyer's funeral?!?! Not a chance.

Ben's funeral-- no one would attend that except members of The Others and who knows how many of them will survive and if any of them will ever leave the island.

Also, recall that this is someone Jack is mourning. If Jack is desperate to get back to the island, and if Ben had also been removed from the island, wouldn't Jack see Ben as someone crucial to getting back? Jack may see Ben as his last, best hope and then reading that Ben has died would be the kind of thing that might drive Jack to contemplate suicide.

Hmmmmm.

-Jason "I really like this theory!" Evans


What about this from begging to differ?:

Rumors are that HD screen captures of the obituary carried around by Jack include a name that just might be Jeremy Bentham. [EDIT: Screen capture can be found here.] Bentham was a utilitarian philosopher who was influenced by, among others, John Locke and David Hume. He’s also known for the wacky escapades involving his corpse, which is owned an on display at the University of London and where his head has gone missing and been stolen by pranking students. I haven’t seen the screen caps yet myself and I couldn’t make out anything sporting the cathode-ray technology.

BuschDevil
05-24-2007, 04:13 PM
Very interesting... so, just how many names of Philosophers & Physicists have the creators of LOST used in the show? Here is a look at this from USA Today from 2 months ago... ****((Lostpedia seems to be having problems right now, but I suspect they have a more complete list. Hopefully they will be back up later.))****

http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2007-03-27-lost-philosophers_N.htm

... & their list:

John Locke

Danielle Rousseau (Jean Jacques Rousseau)

Anthony Cooper

Edmund Burke

Mikhail Bakunin

Desmond 'David Hume'

Ms. Hawking (homage to Steven?)

Can anybody think of any they missed or that have come up since late March?

Could 'Jacob' fit this as well? (we just don't know the last name yet) There were many philosophers with the name Jacob, true?

As a name Oso Diablo mentioned in an earlier post, maybe Jeremy Bentham will be added to the list later.

I'm not sure who is in the coffin, but it would seem to me that Jack's flashforward is far enough in the 'Lost' future, that many new & important characters could be introduced by then.

I can't wait until February!:(

Say, does anybody think we could get the powers that be to make sure Duke has no games on a Wednesday night starting in February? :D

jimsumner
05-24-2007, 04:17 PM
Maybe Jack finds out that Christian Sheppard isn't his real father. That would explain it.

Maybe, he finds out that he, Sawyer, and Locke have the same father. The guy did seem to get around.:)

OZZIE4DUKE
05-24-2007, 07:05 PM
Say, does anybody think we could get the powers that be to make sure Duke has no games on a Wednesday night starting in February? :D

Nooooooooooooooooo! That would mean we are on the Thursday - Sunday schedule again instead of Wednesday - Saturday. I hate Sunday night home games.

BuschDevil
05-24-2007, 08:40 PM
Nooooooooooooooooo! That would mean we are on the Thursday - Sunday schedule again instead of Wednesday - Saturday. I hate Sunday night home games.

Good point, Ozzie... I hate the Sunday night games too!

Exiled_Devil
05-24-2007, 11:20 PM
Every week after Lost, it is certainly worth checking out the Begging To Differ (http://www.beggingtodiffer.com/2007/05/24/lost-through-the-looking-glass-season-3-finale#more-3210) blog entry on it. As always, lots of good stuff in there, including the fact that the name of the Funeral Home was an anagram for Flash Foreward. Cool!

But, the best nugget this week comes from one of the comments attached to the blog. One of the readers suggests that the body in the coffin is Ben. I cannot believe how much sense this makes!!

Jack says he is neither family nor friend to the dead person. Sawyer, Locke, and just about anyone else among the Lostaways would certainly be a "friend." I mean, after all they have been through-- can you imagine Jack or Kate skipping Sawyer's funeral?!?! Not a chance.

Ben's funeral-- no one would attend that except members of The Others and who knows how many of them will survive and if any of them will ever leave the island.

Also, recall that this is someone Jack is mourning. If Jack is desperate to get back to the island, and if Ben had also been removed from the island, wouldn't Jack see Ben as someone crucial to getting back? Jack may see Ben as his last, best hope and then reading that Ben has died would be the kind of thing that might drive Jack to contemplate suicide.

Hmmmmm.

-Jason "I really like this theory!" Evans

Woot! I was on e of the people who first dropped that idea over there...but I think someone else had an even better idea - that the dead person was Jacob. I like that more for some reason, and can see either working. I also wonder who the 'him' Kate needs to get back to - I have heard speculation of Sawyer, or her (as yet unborn) son, but I am fixated on the beach front dining she had with Ben, and wonder if they are somehow linked in the future. I want to know what that dinner is all about!! IT is driving me crazy. That and the statue.

What do people think about the meeting between Jack and Kate being the end of season 5, with season 6 being 'return to Gilligan's Island, um, Lost island? I think the writers could pull it off in a way that is powerful and believable, but I have gained unlimited faith in the Lost writers. (I know I doubted them a few weeks ago, but this month turned me around.)

Exiled

Dukerati
05-25-2007, 08:43 AM
I really like the "Ben in the coffin" theory and have managed to almost completely convince myself of it. Another strong argument in favor of that theory is that once Ben is removed from the therapeutic effects of the island, he could suffer from real-world exposure. Perhaps that is what chains him and Locke to the island? Some sort of deal with Jacob?

And what does the board think about next season? I think the producers treated us to the flash forward so that they could pick things up from there (Jack and Kate meeting at the airport) and then do flashback episodes to fill in the time gap as the plot progresses. This way, the producers get to keep Lost in its traditional format of interspersing flashbacks to provide character depth and drive the plot.

JasonEvans
05-25-2007, 08:50 AM
Woot! I was on e of the people who first dropped that idea over there...but I think someone else had an even better idea - that the dead person was Jacob. I like that more for some reason, and can see either working. I also wonder who the 'him' Kate needs to get back to - I have heard speculation of Sawyer, or her (as yet unborn) son, but I am fixated on the beach front dining she had with Ben, and wonder if they are somehow linked in the future. I want to know what that dinner is all about!! IT is driving me crazy. That and the statue.

What do people think about the meeting between Jack and Kate being the end of season 5, with season 6 being 'return to Gilligan's Island, um, Lost island? I think the writers could pull it off in a way that is powerful and believable, but I have gained unlimited faith in the Lost writers. (I know I doubted them a few weeks ago, but this month turned me around.)

Exiled

Jacob is a bad guess at the dead person, IMO. I think scores of Others would be at Jacob's funeral. Unless every single Other is dead (and Locke and Alex too) then Jacob's funeral is not an empty room. And the notion of Jacob living and dying in LA... that jusrt seems waaaay wrong.

I've been saying that the "him" Kate needed to get back to was her son. I'll even go so far as to predict that Jack is the father but Kate has custody cause Jack is a drunk, drug-addicted dude.

I think people are making too much of Kate's dinner with Ben. I may be wrong, but I vaguely recall hearing that Lindelhoff or Cuse said there was nothing significant there we did not see. They shot an additional scene of the meal but had to cut it for time. Perhaps we will see that scene on the Season 3 DVD and we can finally put that uncertainty to rest.

I am not sure about your "return" idea. It does have some interesting ideas to it. It could be really cool if we still get flash-forwards for the final episode to feature Jack and Kate (and a few other final survivors) getting off the island and, at the same time, a flash-forward where they return to the island in the final scene. Knowing all the island's secrets, they want to come back.

-Jason "is February here yet?" Evans

terrih
05-25-2007, 09:02 AM
Question about this whole February return. It hadn't really hit me, guess I hadn't really thought much about this. If the show isn't returning until February, not only do we have to wait extra long, it would seem next years season- will be more like a 1/2 season- February - May? That is a huge bummer and seems pretty lame.

BlueDiablo
05-25-2007, 10:26 AM
Question about this whole February return. It hadn't really hit me, guess I hadn't really thought much about this. If the show isn't returning until February, not only do we have to wait extra long, it would seem next years season- will be more like a 1/2 season- February - May? That is a huge bummer and seems pretty lame.

Yeah, it will be a shortened season. The next three seasons will each be 16 episodes each, running on consecutive weeks from February to May. It will be more like "The Sopranos" in terms of focusing on shorter seasons spaced further apart. This was a compromise between ABC, which wanted to keep the hit show around as long as possible, and the creators, who realize that they only have so much story left to tell. With shortened seasons, ABC can stretch it out three more years.

Hopefully, this will also mean that the show can continue to maintain its quality without putting undue stress on the production crew. I've heard through third-hand sources that working on the LOST team this year was incredibly stressful because it was constantly behind schedule trying to keep up. Cuse and Lindelof mentioned in the final podcast that the final print of the finale was delivered to the studio for broadcast on Tuesday morning. Ouch.

Exiled_Devil
05-25-2007, 11:07 AM
Good point about Jacob and the Others...I can still see a way to manage it, though:

1. Jacob left the island and the Others are still there (possibly unaware that he is gone)
2. The Others never actually saw Jacob...they might not know it was him.

I think that these are stretch ideas, but viable. Given the track record on the show, we won't find out who is in the casket until season 5 finale, and why until the middle of the last season.

I am still obsessed about that dinner. Of course, I have a self-admitted track record of being absolutely horrible at guessing what is going to happen on these shows. Therefore, any prediction I make should be considered a clear non-option in others' theorizing.

Seriously, I stink at predictions.

Exiled

blublood
05-25-2007, 11:41 AM
I really like the "Ben in the coffin" theory and have managed to almost completely convince myself of it. Another strong argument in favor of that theory is that once Ben is removed from the therapeutic effects of the island, he could suffer from real-world exposure.

At http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/ they have a pretty good blow-up of that newspaper article. You can't make out everything (naturally), but what you can read seems to indicate that "Jeremy Bentham" hung himself from a "beam" in his loft. The doorman heard loud noises and went to investigate. It also says that the dead person was from New York.

My vote is that this character is someone we don't know yet and someone we won't be able to guess at until later in the show.

dukeblueyes
05-25-2007, 11:54 AM
Wow... anyone else read this and think of Brooks from Shawshank Redemption? Someone leaves a place where they were imprisioned for a long time and can't handle or adapt to the outside world.

feldspar
05-25-2007, 02:58 PM
I hate to burst your bubble, guys, but you are DEAD wrong about one major plot point you keep bringing up...













It was breakfast, not dinner....:D

TheGodfather
05-25-2007, 04:33 PM
There is no way that grenade killed Patchy. He survived the sonic fence when he was believed to be dead. He took a vicious beating to the head from Locke when he should have still been recovering. He took a spear through his gut and was swimming and smiling moments after being believed dead. If it had been a suicide run for Patchy there was no need to go outside the hatch. He planned on swimming to the surface after surviving the blast. Some of the Others just have supernatural abilities; Richard doesn't age, Ethan had superstrength and Patchy is unbreakable.

Of course Charlie probably isn't dead either. Desmond is the only one who "saw Charlie Die." And if you believe Desmond, then he has seen Charlie die numerous times. The writers like to show Charlie die then later he comes back to life. I can think of at least two other times it's happened. One time they showed him dead and Jack and Kate had given up on him, then Jack decided with enough determination he could bring anyone back, so he did. The other time it turned out to all be a dream. The death this time was in slow motion, dreamlike and too easily preventable (simply closing the door from the other side, not closing the door at all, or at least swimming out the port hole) to fit.

Of the two "who shall not be named" the whole season, Walt and Michael, I like to think both were in the finale. Walt appeared as a vision from the smoke monster and Michael showed up in a coffin. The director at least wanted viewers to think it was a black character inside the coffin because of the neighborhood they set the funeral parlor in. And Michael is someone Kate would have no interest in seeing and Jack wouldn't consider a friend or family. Maybe the writers even wanted to show Michael in the coffin but couldn't get the actor to come back. If it had been Ben or Jacob in there, Jack may have at least wanted to open up the coffin one last time to make sure the body was there.