Duke Baseball

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I saw on GoDuke that the baseball team finished up its season with a loss. Last year we came very close to making the NCAAs, but it seems like we took a step back this year. Obviously we play in an incredibly tough conference and I know we lost a number of excellent players, and it seems like we had some underclassmen in key roles. Based on my limited knowledge, I've been happy with Coach McNally, but I'd like to hear from those who are more in the know about where the program stands and the outlook for the future. Go Duke!

[studdlee10]

We lost a lot to graduation and to the draft (Hassan). We also had a number of highly touted recruits (Steven Baron to the Mariners and Coffey to the Orioles) never step on campus. At this point, Duke does not have the depth or the foundation to withstand these kind of losses like G'tech or UNC can. It'll take a few recruiting class and some luck (kids not signing MLB contracts) for Duke to build a winning program.

Duke is at a disadvantage when it comes to recruiting for a sport like baseball. Few baseball players are offered a full ride, which is a major obstacle at an expensive private school like Duke. Duke's lack of historical success also makes it harder for top recruits to justify paying to go to Duke for at least 3 years (as opposed to Stanford). Lacrosse players generally come from wealthy families, so the scholarship situation tends to work out, but this isn't necessarily the case with baseball players.

[uh_no]

and there are also very many fewer lax schools than baseball schools....meaning we can shoot for a higher # of top recruits anyway

that said....it doesn't help that our home stadium is not home....

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Thanks. How do things look for next year in terms of returnees and recruits? How does the recruiting class look? What are the thoughts as to whether they will all make it to campus or if they will end up going pro? This is a very tricky balancing act between wanting the best players possible but not tying up spots and the coaches time on guys who are so good that they probably won't end up at Duke.

[David]

that said....it doesn't help that our home stadium is not home....

Is that true? I could imagine playing home games at the Durham Bulls stadium might be a selling point for certain recruits. I think we can all agree that a top notch facility on campus might be preferable, but it is not clear to me that the new arrangement to play off-campus is a major negative relative to the status quo. To give an example from college hoops, Georgetown plays their home games off-campus at the Verizon Center and they seem to be doing ok with recruiting.

[uh_no]

Is that true? I could imagine playing home games at the Durham Bulls stadium might be a selling point for certain recruits. I think we can all agree that a top notch facility on campus might be preferable, but it is not clear to me that the new arrangement to play off-campus is a major negative relative to the status quo. To give an example from college hoops, Georgetown plays their home games off-campus at the Verizon Center and they seem to be doing ok with recruiting.

i can't imagine not playing home games in your campus' stadium can be that big of a selling point...i also believe they played half their home games in cary at a high school or somethign

[David]

i can't imagine not playing home games in your campus' stadium can be that big of a selling point...i also believe they played half their home games in cary at a high school or somethign

The team played a few games this year at the USA Baseball Complex in Cary, but the majority of the home games were played at the DBAP. Although I always enjoyed watching games at Jack Coombs Field, it is not clear to me that the DBAP isn't an improvement. Out of curiousity, why did the athletic dept choose to move the games off-campus?

[uh_no]

The team played a few games this year at the USA Baseball Complex in Cary, but the majority of the home games were played at the DBAP. Although I always enjoyed watching games at Jack Coombs Field, it is not clear to me that the DBAP isn't an improvement. Out of curiousity, why did the athletic dept choose to move the games off-campus?

whether it is an improvement or not seems irrelevant....to tell a recruit that we don't have good enough facilities on campus (and don't want to spend the money to improve them), so we have to rent out the local minor league ballpark to play our games.....

if I were a recruit i'd think...wow this dept really doesn't care too too much about having a good ballpark of its own.....maybe some other school does

maybe i'm wrong....but thats the feeling i'd get

[David]

whether it is an improvement or not seems irrelevant....to tell a recruit that we don't have good enough facilities on campus (and don't want to spend the money to improve them), so we have to rent out the local minor league ballpark to play our games.....

if I were a recruit i'd think...wow this dept really doesn't care too too much about having a good ballpark of its own.....maybe some other school does

maybe i'm wrong....but thats the feeling i'd get

I guess this is ultimately an empirical issue as to whether a recruit would find it appealing to play games at a AAA local minor league park vs the current on-campus field. I think a AAA stadium sounds kind of cool, you clearly don't. Let's see what Coach McNally can do over the next several seasons in terms of recruiting. Once again, I think we can both agree that Duke's investment in a state-of-the-art baseball complex would be the first-best solution in terms of recruiting, raising the profile of the program, etc.

Just to get myself up-to-speed on this issue, I went back and found a good Chronicle article on the move to the DBAP. Drainage issues with Coombs field were a big part of the move.

http://dukechronicle.com/article/duke-play-just-seven-home-games-campus

[jimsumner]

This is the article I wrote back in February. The Cary games were added later. The USA Baseball Complex is not a high school facility. In fact, it's currently hosting the NCAA D-2 national championships.

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204894808

I do not anticipate any movement on upgrading Coombs in the near future. Maybe never. Upgrading Wade results in more potential enhanced revenue than does upgrading Coombs.

The coaches picked Duke to finish 12th this season. So, not much of a surprise. Marcus Stroman was just named ACC Freshman of the Year and several other freshmen have shown promise.

The problem isn't quality, its quantity. You have 11.7 total scholarships to scatter among lots of players. Most players get partial scholarships. Filling in the rest of the cost at Duke adds up to a sizeable chunk of change. And walk-ons are not the option at Duke that they are at state-supported schools.

I've had two ACC head coaches tell me that Duke is the best-coached team in the league. Duke has a solid class coming in next year but depth again is a concern. Losing Hassan, Baron and Coffey unexpectedly last summer dealt a body blow to Duke's chances this season.

Private, academically elite schools have been successful in the sport. Rice won the CWS a few years back and Vanderbilt has a first-rate program. So, it can be done.

If I had my druthers, I'd rather Duke have a first-rate facility on campus. But Coombs may not even qualify as second rate. So, playing at the Bulls field is the best option right now.

[roywhite]

I've had two ACC head coaches tell me that Duke is the best-coached team in the league. Duke has a solid class coming in next year but depth again is a concern. Losing Hassan, Baron and Coffey unexpectedly last summer dealt a body blow to Duke's chances this season.



Just a quick note---I saw Alex Hassan in action when his Salem Red Sox team played at the new Winston-Salem Dash park (quite nice) a couple weeks ago. He's not tearing up the Single A Carolina League, with a batting average of .227. Had one hit in the game I saw, but struck out with the bases loaded. He's got good size and seems to have power potential.

Of course it's not easy for any prospect to get to the major leagues.

[David]

Thanks Jim! Both for the post and the link.

I found this line from your post very encouraging:


I've had two ACC head coaches tell me that Duke is the best-coached team in the league.

I remember Coach McNally as a very good player at Duke (he played on some solid teams in the early 90s with Ryan Jackson and Quenton McCracken, among others) and it is good to hear that he and his staff are getting the job done. This program was in dire straits before he took the job.

[hughgs]

This is the article I wrote back in February. The Cary games were added later. The USA Baseball Complex is not a high school facility. In fact, it's currently hosting the NCAA D-2 national championships.

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204894808

I do not anticipate any movement on upgrading Coombs in the near future. Maybe never. Upgrading Wade results in more potential enhanced revenue than does upgrading Coombs.

The coaches picked Duke to finish 12th this season. So, not much of a surprise. Marcus Stroman was just named ACC Freshman of the Year and several other freshmen have shown promise.

The problem isn't quality, its quantity. You have 11.7 total scholarships to scatter among lots of players. Most players get partial scholarships. Filling in the rest of the cost at Duke adds up to a sizeable chunk of change. And walk-ons are not the option at Duke that they are at state-supported schools.

I've had two ACC head coaches tell me that Duke is the best-coached team in the league. Duke has a solid class coming in next year but depth again is a concern. Losing Hassan, Baron and Coffey unexpectedly last summer dealt a body blow to Duke's chances this season.

Private, academically elite schools have been successful in the sport. Rice won the CWS a few years back and Vanderbilt has a first-rate program. So, it can be done.

If I had my druthers, I'd rather Duke have a first-rate facility on campus. But Coombs may not even qualify as second rate. So, playing at the Bulls field is the best option right now.

There were/are some drawings around on the upgrading Coombs, and the upgrades were supposed to occur in the next couple of years. But from what I understand, the money just isn't there.

The baseball SID told me near the beginning of the season that the attendance seemed to be up when playing at the DBAP. His primary concern was getting the students to come out.

[jtelander]

This year I've been to half a dozen games at Davenport field in Charlottesville, as the guest of a UVA Alum who lives there. I've been very favorably impressed with the that facility as well as the overall game day experience. They provide shuttle service from the parking lot to the stadium for handicapped and elderly fans, they have fantastic music during stoppage of play, they have fan based competitions between innings (similar to the Durham Bulls) and they obviously have a really good team. As a result, they have great attendance with sell outs occurring even thought they've added more seating. The fans create a high level of energy which I believe helps the team.

It has to be tough for Duke to compete in recruiting when compared to other venues such as this.

[jimsumner]

UVA is a classic lesson in the relationship between spending money and having success. Their baseball program was beyond bad. Then they decided to spend real money, on coaches, recruiting and facilities. Within a few years they were competitive and now they're one of the top programs in the country.

So, it can be done. But it takes some will. Note than Notre Dame had some pretty good teams for a snow-belt school when Kevin White was AD there. So, don't assume White isn't pro baseball. Then again, Joe Alleva had two sons play baseball at Duke and Alleva was responsible for hiring Bill Hillier, arguably the worst hire in Duke athletic history.

McNally was an academic All-America at Duke and he's more than comfortable with the school's academic standards. He targets bright kids, who see themselves as doctors, lawyers and CEOs down the road.

But in order to compete in the ACC, he has to get players who have the ability to play professionally before becoming doctors, lawyers and CEOs. He's emphasizing player development and has hired coaches who agree with that philosophy. For this to bear fruit, people like Nate Freiman, Alex Hassan and Andrew Wolcott need to show up on major league rosters three or four years down the road.

I think White realizes he's got the right guy for the job and needs to give him the tools to succeed. We'll see.