Captains Named -- Guess Who?

[airowe]

http://www.goduke.com//ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204947617

[CameronBornAndBred]

No suprise there..congrats to both. I wonder if it would have only been Nolan if Singler hadn't returned.

[SilkyJ]

Wow. This is way earlier than usual, no?

No surprise by any means, so I guess they were just getting the obvious out of the way...

[airowe]

Wow. This is way earlier than usual, no?

No surprise by any means, so I guess they were just getting the obvious out of the way...

Yes, very early. It was so obvious, I guess the coaching staff wanted to set the tone for the Summer before leaving for their USA Basketball duties.

Next season probably won't be so easy...

[SilkyJ]

Yes, very early. It was so obvious, I guess the coaching staff wanted to set the tone for the Summer before leaving for their USA Basketball duties.

Next season probably won't be so easy...

I was thinking the same thing Re: the summer, but I feel like Nolan and Kyle would be setting the tone this summer regardless as they are the lone seniors and best players on the team....but yes, it all makes sense.

[Osiagledknarf]

Really no shocker here... Smith and Singler were no brainers for captain this year. Both huge contributors and really along with Singler last year took on that leadership role. Congrats to these guys and look forward to seeing them flourish once again this season.

[DukeBlueNV]

maybe its just me... and this is meant as no slight to kyle but i see nolan as the unquestioned leader of this team. no evidence to back it up just a feeling i get from watching the team and their interactions on and off the court. kyle may go down as one of my favorite players at duke but i think nolan should have been the lone captain. dont slay me ppl just an opinion and like i said love kyle but im just callin it like i see it. i do understand k's motivations, encouraging singler to become more vocal and also maybe he thought i would be insulting to him after postponing his future for the benifit of the team... i guess that exemplifies qualities of a captain. still see nolan as the true leader of this team.

[cato]

maybe its just me... and this is meant as no slight to kyle but i see nolan as the unquestioned leader of this team. no evidence to back it up just a feeling i get from watching the team and their interactions on and off the court. kyle may go down as one of my favorite players at duke but i think nolan should have been the lone captain. dont slay me ppl just an opinion and like i said love kyle but im just callin it like i see it. i do understand k's motivations, encouraging singler to become more vocal and also maybe he thought i would be insulting to him after postponing his future for the benifit of the team... i guess that exemplifies qualities of a captain. still see nolan as the true leader of this team.

Yes.

It probably is just you.

[SilkyJ]

maybe its just me... and this is meant as no slight to kyle but i see nolan as the unquestioned leader of this team. no evidence to back it up

The classic "no evidence" line!!!!!

[cato]

No suprise there..congrats to both. I wonder if it would have only been Nolan if Singler hadn't returned.

That would be my guess. If any of the other returning players really stepped up during the season, K could have made him co-captain during the season.

You know, I like this type of speculation much better than wondering what would have been if Kyle had decided to go pro.

[airowe]

maybe its just me... and this is meant as no slight to kyle but i see nolan as the unquestioned leader of this team. no evidence to back it up just a feeling i get from watching the team and their interactions on and off the court. kyle may go down as one of my favorite players at duke but i think nolan should have been the lone captain. dont slay me ppl just an opinion and like i said love kyle but im just callin it like i see it. i do understand k's motivations, encouraging singler to become more vocal and also maybe he thought i would be insulting to him after postponing his future for the benifit of the team... i guess that exemplifies qualities of a captain. still see nolan as the true leader of this team.

I think it's easy to form opinions like the one you presented, seeing as how Nolan is so outgoing. But, I suggest you go back and watch Lance's Senior Speech to get a little taste of how respected Kyle is by the team. He's an absolute warrior on the court and has always gone about his work in a manner which commands respect. That is something that K has always respected in his players tremendously (Battier, Hurley, etc.) Just because Kyle is not on Twitter, on the DBP videos, what have you hamming it up does not mean he is not respected by his team.

This is one of the reasons Kyle came back, was to work on his leadership skills. Why would K not give him every opportunity to do so?

[CameronBornAndBred]

maybe its just me... and this is meant as no slight to kyle but i see nolan as the unquestioned leader of this team. no evidence to back it up just a feeling i get from watching the team and their interactions on and off the court. kyle may go down as one of my favorite players at duke but i think nolan should have been the lone captain. dont slay me ppl just an opinion and like i said love kyle but im just callin it like i see it. i do understand k's motivations, encouraging singler to become more vocal and also maybe he thought i would be insulting to him after postponing his future for the benifit of the team... i guess that exemplifies qualities of a captain. still see nolan as the true leader of this team.
So you're saying the one guy on the team most likely to have his jersey in the rafters should not be captain?

[SilkyJ]

maybe he thought i would be insulting to him after postponing his future for the benifit [sic] of the team

Kyle did not postpone his future for the benefit of the team, he did it for the benefit of Kyle.

Kyle was quite clear on why he was coming back: he liked college, he liked his teammates, and he wanted to come back. That means he did it for himself. And good for him.

If you watched his press conference and read any of his quotes, you would know this.

Haha, wow. Dude got slammed quick...

[ElSid]

maybe its just me... and this is meant as no slight to kyle but i see nolan as the unquestioned leader of this team. no evidence to back it up just a feeling i get from watching the team and their interactions on and off the court. kyle may go down as one of my favorite players at duke but i think nolan should have been the lone captain. dont slay me ppl just an opinion and like i said love kyle but im just callin it like i see it. i do understand k's motivations, encouraging singler to become more vocal and also maybe he thought i would be insulting to him after postponing his future for the benifit of the team... i guess that exemplifies qualities of a captain. still see nolan as the true leader of this team.

meh. i won't slay you but i will disagree. nolan is better on the twitter and is a more over the top personality. but i thought kyle showed a lot of leadership during the tourneys at the end...just taking control of the games. they have different styles.

[cato]

I think it's easy to form opinions like the one you presented, seeing as how Nolan is so outgoing.

Actually, I don't see how one can form that opinion. Many things about last year's Duke team made it special, but one of the most important things was how well the Big 3 played together. In years past, Duke teams suffered by having too few players who were ready to take over a game (essentially, 2005-2009) or too many (2002).

I still find it remarkable that the team last year featured three players that could all take over the game, but were so tight that none of them tried to outshine the others. Kyle did not seem to resent going from being the preseason main attraction to one of the Big 3. Neither Nolan nor Jon seemed to resent tweaking the offense midway through the season in order to get Kyle untracked.

Even without any inside knowledge, I cannot see why the coaching staff would even consider driving a wedge between the two remaining members of the Big 3 by elevating one above the other.

[DukeBlueNV]

jeez fellas... asked not to get ripped but okay. my point is that kyle will do what he does regarless of the captain lable. have u ever seen kyle rally the troops or even say anything to the other players on the court? there is no doubt he will lead by example and like i said in my first post im not putting down singler or his game (he may be me favorite duke behind battier jwill and redick). he is who he is, and slapping a captain lable on him wont make him the vocal leader that nolan obviously is. im sure that his teammates have respect for him as does everyone who plays, coaches or watches college basketball. i just think the lable of being the unquestioned captain for nolan would really benfit him and i could see him taking his game to an even higher level when the team needs and the one the team looks to when he is on the court. the team dynamics will play out in this way i believe regardless of who is named what. just making a point, wasnt tryin to cause a stir just some healthy debate for the offseason. and i dont think k made a mistake here im just saying there is some benifts to nolan being the lone captain, personally i dont think kyle would have cared either way but the safe and classy move was to name both team captains.

[airowe]

jeez fellas... asked not to get ripped but okay. my point is that kyle will do what he does regarless of the captain lable. have u ever seen kyle rally the troops or even say anything to the other players on the court?

You can't just make a blanket statement with no evidence and ask not to be ripped. Sorry, NV. I did so on my first post and got ripped for it and rightfully so.

As for the bolded part, are you sure you watched Duke games the last 3 years?

[DukeBlueNV]

You can't just make a blanket statement with no evidence and ask not to be ripped. Sorry, NV. I did so on my first post and got ripped for it and rightfully so.

As for the bolded part, are you sure you watched Duke games the last 3 years?

well i can tell u i've watched almost every duke game for the last 4-5 yrs (i missed one when i was on a snowboarding trip and another for my cousins bar-mitzvah) and i honestly cant remember seeing kyle do anything vocal on the court besides maybe yell after a dunk or talk a lil smack to whoever was guarding him as he ran back down the court. the most vocal thing i saw last year was when he wouldnt back down from booker after he blocked his shot (maybe it was the other way) but other than that i dont remember any times seeing him act any other way than just keeping to himself and playing his game. being vocal towards his teammates thats just not him... i recognize this behavior being a carolina panthers fan with peppers. GREAT, GREAT player... just not a vocal leader, doesnt mean he isnt respected or take away from his game, thats just not him.

[airowe]

There is a lot more to being a captain than being vocal. There is also a lot more to "rallying the troops" than getting in guys' faces.

Kyle has sacrificed his body and played out of position his first two years at Duke. He's a leader. Just because he's not in guys' grilles yelling at them doesn't mean he doesn't know how to lead his fellow Duke teammates into battle.

[cato]

i honestly cant remember seeing kyle do anything vocal on the court besides maybe yell after a dunk or talk a lil smack to whoever was guarding him as he ran back down the court.

http://tarheelmania.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/kyle-singler-evil.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2367/2284108693_5cc2485a1e_m.jpg

http://www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Maryland+v+Duke+4vEU1cxvUSyl.jpg

[El_Diablo]

have u ever seen kyle rally the troops or even say anything to the other players on the court?

Yes. Any other questions?

[CameronBornAndBred]

http://tarheelmania.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/kyle-singler-evil.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2367/2284108693_5cc2485a1e_m.jpg

http://www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Maryland+v+Duke+4vEU1cxvUSyl.jpg
Great answer!

[ACCBBallFan]

If that was only criteria, Josh McRoberts would have been best captain ever.

[DukeBlueNV]

Okay let me clarify what I'm trying to say here. I'm thinking my point got a lil convoluted as my posts went on. I'm not saying singler isn't a great player and doesn't command respect. Or that his only role on the team is what ends up on the stat sheet or that coach k made the wrong move here. but how I view a leader I guess is different then how u guys do. I see leaders like battier duhon paulus and lance from last yr. where these players the best players on their teams maybe but probly not. They did things like putting players where they should on the court, hit a big three or make a hustle play to get the team goin and got the team to focus when they needed it. And that is how I see smith, again not saying singler doesn't deserve the captain status, k made the right move just trying to make a point

[amat1129]

i can't believe Kelly and Curry didn't get it :(

[DukeBlueNV]

http://tarheelmania.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/kyle-singler-evil.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2367/2284108693_5cc2485a1e_m.jpg

http://www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Maryland+v+Duke+4vEU1cxvUSyl.jpg

nice pics. love the first one. but if u look closer u can see that in the second one nelson is the one doing the talking, singler the listening.
in the third looks to me like he just made a big shot and what is he doing? smirking which is fine but who is showing the enthusiam? gerald.

just sayin.:)

[ElSid]

meh i just don't care how much singler actually talks.
who was our team leader this year? lance was loud. zoubek was inspiring. but jon probably did the most for the team. singler might have done more. that is good enough for leadership a lot of the time. i don't want singler to feel pressure to be more than he is. he talks a fair amount during the games and i imagine in practice he will set the tone for how to work as hard as you can. that's what's most important. not just talking to guys about how to play. they know that. what they need is help figuring out what it takes to win.

[gumbomoop]

Okay let me clarify what I'm trying to say here. I'm thinking my point got a lil convoluted as my posts went on...... They did things like putting players where they should on the court, hit a big three or make a hustle play to get the team goin and got the team to focus when they needed it.

I don't think further posts will un-convolute your position. Just a guess.

As to the emboldened stuff, the substance of your position, I have to disagree, as follows:

1. KS talked a lot on the court, as did his fellow '09-'10 leaders, esp on D.
2. KS hit lots of big 3s. Lots and lots. As did his fellow leaders. To me, "3-S" was at least a double entendre, involving, as it did, treys.
3. KS hustled more than any other single player on the team [or equal to LT, the presumed hustle model], esp on D. I apologize for posting this for the 10th time or so, but KS was visibly pissed off on D, on every play, for the last 1/2 of the season. He seemed to hate, almost literally, the very idea that the guy he was guarding might score a bucket. He was a very angry player on D. He matched LT's fierce intensity on D, so K had 2 visible leaders in that regard.

[DukeBlueNV]

I don't think further posts will un-convolute your position. Just a guess.

As to the emboldened stuff, the substance of your position, I have to disagree, as follows:

1. KS talked a lot on the court, as did his fellow '09-'10 leaders, esp on D.
2. KS hit lots of big 3s. Lots and lots. As did his fellow leaders. To me, "3-S" was at least a double entendre, involving, as it did, treys.
3. KS hustled more than any other single player on the team [or equal to LT, the presumed hustle model], esp on D. I apologize for posting this for the 10th time or so, but KS was visibly pissed off on D, on every play, for the last 1/2 of the season. He seemed to hate, almost literally, the very idea that the guy he was guarding might score a bucket. He was a very angry player on D. He matched LT's fierce intensity on D, so K had 2 visible leaders in that regard.

i agree with everything u just said. im just telling u that how I view a captain is different then u guy i guess. its a matter of opinion. again i didnt say kyle doenst deserve it and i think it WAS the right move by coach k. my point was that there are benifits for nolan being the single captain. but this WAS the right move. i was just trying to make a point.

[hedevil]

Personally, I feel like this was a perfect pick for captains. Nolan and Kyle both have great leadership qualities. Nolan: vocal. Kyle: effort. Not to knock one or the other, but for myself, these are qualities where they each outweigh eachother slightly.

I do see Nolan as a more vocal person by nature than Kyle. His outgoing personality comes so naturally. He is unarguably a more vocal leader during games than is Kyle. At least on the court. Nolan has a smile and confidence during games that makes me as a fan feel confident, as if the game is under control no matter how close.

Kyle on the other hand, for myself, is a leader by example. The kind of guy you want by your side in the trenches. A warrior. Time and time again I watched Kyle hit big, clutch shots when Duke needed them. The energy that Kyle plays with, especially in clutch moments, I feel is transferred to the team, bench, and fans as a whole. His play seems to energize everyone around him. Even when he's not hitting shots or scoring big, he's making key defensive plays, or hitting 14 free throws. Like Nolan, you feel like Kyle won't let you lose.

Nolan tells you how to do it: Vocal leader
Kyle shows you how to do it: By example leader

Both needed, and equally important. Great balance equals great captain picks in my book.:D

[Newton_14]

i agree with everything u just said. im just telling u that how I view a captain is different then u guy i guess. its a matter of opinion. again i didnt say kyle doenst deserve it and i think it WAS the right move by coach k. my point was that there are benifits for nolan being the single captain. but this WAS the right move. i was just trying to make a point.

I think the issue is you are putting too much emphasis on being outwardly vocal. I saw Kyle grab Mason, Miles, and Andre numerous times last year and literally shove them to the correct spot on the floor. He also came to Mason's defense after the reverse dunk on Wake when Ish Smith was yappin.

Jon Scheyer was not vocal. He led on the court by example. But if you saw any practices he led every drill they did as a team. When they split into Bigs and Littles on different ends of the court, Jon led the guards/wings, and Lance led the Bigs.

As others have noted, in the presser announcing Kyle was coming back, the first thing he stated he wanted to work on and develop was his leadership skills. The guy was born to lead. He has been one of or The best players on every team in his life. He just is one of those guys that leads in a quieter way ala Jon Scheyer.

It makes perfect sense for Kyle and Nolan to be the captains of this team. I think most all of us would have been shocked beyond measure had he not been named captain.

Heck, I argued he should have been a captain last year.

[cspan37421]

If that was only criteria, Josh McRoberts would have been best captain ever.

That truly made me LOL. Excellent!

But boy, NV is getting ripped, and yes, there's obviously photo evidence of Kyle being vocal, but really, he generally is pretty quiet by comparison to his teammates.

But yeah, captaincy is more than being vocal. It's also setting an example, e.g., not whining about no-calls. Kyle would be plenty justified in such whining, but it wouldn't be helpful to the team, so he doesn't do it. Leading by example. Getting up - almost hopping up - after being hammered hard (was it the 1st MD game?). That's leadership by example. Doing whatever the coach asks you to do - incl. playing out of position. That's leadership by example. The guy has been everything you would want in a player since day one.

[DukeBlueNV]

i understand everyones' points and opinions but i will reiterate for everyone that i didnt say kyle doesnt deserve the captain status. my point was i think it would have benifited nolan to be the lone captain. i think it is an intresting idea i dont want to debate kyle and his game... u guys are right, he leads in his own way. my idea was that nolan could take his game to a new level as the unqestioned leader of the team. of course the players and coaches would still hold kyle in high regard and follow his lead when it comes to hustle and sacrifice. but seeing nolan in a demarcus nelson type roll when nelson was the only senior (i think nolan is better suited then demarc was) could really help his game and the team. even though singler may be the best player on the floor overall, i think nolan is the one who will get the ball late in shotclocks and is someone who can breakdown the defense and make a play when we need one on-top of being the vocal leader on the floor. and ill say it one more time i think k made the right decision here but i think it is interesting to think about nolan as "the guy" on this team.

[slower]

i understand everyones' points and opinions but i will reiterate for everyone that i didnt say kyle doesnt deserve the captain status. my point was i think it would have benifited nolan to be the lone captain. i think it is an intresting idea i dont want to debate kyle and his game... u guys are right, he leads in his own way. my idea was that nolan could take his game to a new level as the unqestioned leader of the team. of course the players and coaches would still hold kyle in high regard and follow his lead when it comes to hustle and sacrifice. but seeing nolan in a demarcus nelson type roll when nelson was the only senior (i think nolan is better suited then demarc was) could really help his game and the team. even though singler may be the best player on the floor overall, i think nolan is the one who will get the ball late in shotclocks and is someone who can breakdown the defense and make a play when we need one on-top of being the vocal leader on the floor. and ill say it one more time i think k made the right decision here but i think it is interesting to think about nolan as "the guy" on this team.

you're kind of slow on the uptake, aren't you? There's no need for you to CONTINUE to reiterate your position. We get it, okay?

If, as you boldly stated, you think K made the right choice (although your very first post clearly said "i think nolan should have been the lone captain"), then quit yapping about it.

And why should Nolan be "the guy" instead of Kyle? Wasn't this past year evidence enough that there doesn't need to be "the guy"?

[Big Pappa]

and ill say it one more time i think k made the right decision here but i think it is interesting to think about nolan as "the guy" on this team.


you're kind of slow on the uptake, aren't you? There's no need for you to CONTINUE to reiterate your position. We get it, okay?

Agreed. Also, if you we are talking about things that are interesting, it is interesting that you haven't figured out that you are fighting a losing battle. Saying that the guy on our team that will most likely start as the pre-season POY in the country shouldn't have been one of the captains is going to bring a flurry of commentary. Especially with very little evidence of your opinion.

[DukeBlueNV]

you're kind of slow on the uptake, aren't you? There's no need for you to CONTINUE to reiterate your position. We get it, okay?

If, as you boldly stated, you think K made the right choice, then quit yapping about it.

thanks for the advice dude... but ppl arent quite grasping my point and are misinterpreting my posts so i feel the need to let ppl know im not putting down kyle. im trying to discuss the effect of what being the lone captain would have on nolan and the team which we have yet to discuss. if no one wants to talk about that... fine. but im not tryin to debate anyone on kyle's worth to the team which everyone is defending. no one is forcing you to read my posts or this thread. everyone is bored this offseason so why cant we find something to talk about?

[Newton_14]

thanks for the advice dude... but ppl arent quite grasping my point and are misinterpreting my posts so i feel the need to let ppl know im not putting down kyle. im trying to discuss the effect of what being the lone captain would have on nolan and the team which we have yet to discuss. if no one wants to talk about that... fine. but im not tryin to debate anyone on kyle's worth to the team which everyone is defending. no one is forcing you to read my posts or this thread. everyone is bored this offseason so why cant we find something to talk about?

Well in fairness, you did change your position. You first stated that Kyle was not captain material. You said great player, but not vocal the way a captain should be.

You were very fairly challenged on that. Then you stated that Nolan would somehow benefit from being the lone captain. I think I can disagree there as well.

Nolan made huge strides this past year. A super big jump. He grew up. He did that inspite of the fact that he had 2 side kicks in Kyle and Jon that made up what came to be known as The Big Three. Nolan came out of the gate strong and got better game by game. He did not suffer at all as 1/3 of the Big Three.

So it stands to reason he can take a step further, this time with only 1 side kick in Kyle, and still thrive. I believe he will be better with Kyle having his back than he would be trying to be the lone leader.

My other point would be that K always wants at least 2 Captains on every team because as much as possible he wants a Captain on the floor at all times.

All of that is why I believe K made the wise choice for Nolan, Kyle, and the team by naming both Captains.

[DukeBlueNV]

Well in fairness, you did change your position. You first stated that Kyle was not captain material. You said great player, but not vocal the way a captain should be.

You were very fairly challenged on that. Then you stated that Nolan would somehow benefit from being the lone captain. I think I can disagree there as well.

Nolan made huge strides this past year. A super big jump. He grew up. He did that inspite of the fact that he had 2 side kicks in Kyle and Jon that made up what came to be known as The Big Three. Nolan came out of the gate strong and got better game by game. He did not suffer at all as 1/3 of the Big Three.

So it stands to reason he can take a step further, this time with only 1 side kick in Kyle, and still thrive. I believe he will be better with Kyle having his back than he would be trying to be the lone leader.

My other point would be that K always wants at least 2 Captains on every team because as much as possible he wants a Captain on the floor at all times.

All of that is why I believe K made the wise choice for Nolan, Kyle, and the team by naming both Captains.

thanks boozer that is the type of response i was looking for. So maybe my first post was misinterpreted, it might have come off as me saying kyle was not captain material but that might have just been my failure to properly explain my position (i dont think that). i think kyle does have quailities of a leader but as i discussed in an earlier post i see leaders as more of a vocal presence then kyle exhibits (battier, duhon, etc.) and i see ur point on how 2 captains can be benificial to the team and i agree with that idea but IMO i see nolan as the leader on the floor either way, no matter who k names captain.

[Newton_14]

thanks boozer that is the type of response i was looking for. So maybe my first post was misinterpreted, it might have come off as me saying kyle was not captain material but that might have just been my failure to properly explain my position (i dont think that). i think kyle does have quailities of a leader but as i discussed in an earlier post i see leaders as more of a vocal presence then kyle exhibits (battier, duhon, etc.) and i see ur point on how 2 captains can be benificial to the team and i agree with that idea but IMO i see nolan as the leader on the floor either way, no matter who k names captain.

I agree with you that Nolan will be a great on the floor leader. No argument at all there. We disagree on whether Kyle can be a great on the floor leader but that's cool. You and I just see Kyle in a different way.

[basket1544]

No surprise as to who the captains are. They are going to have some big shoes to fill (and I'm not just talking about Z's!). Nolan and Kyle have learned from some of the best leaders Duke has ever had. I definitely think they are up to the challenge.
Can the co-captains repeat? I can't wait for this season to start!

[-bdbd]

nice pics. love the first one. but if u look closer u can see that in the second one nelson is the one doing the talking, singler the listening.
in the third looks to me like he just made a big shot and what is he doing? smirking which is fine but who is showing the enthusiam? gerald.

just sayin.:)

Hey NV - you must be much younger than me, cuz my "old dude" eyes couldn't see the guy facing away from the camera doing all the talking in #2. Darn these bifocals!! ;)

I don't think anyone accused you of putting down Kyle. But you aren't giving the other side in the discussion fair credit in your summary. Everyone else posting pretty much seems to have a different vision of what constitutes 'leadership' than you do. I think you're just focused on the VOCAL/talkative kind, and the other posters are saying that there's OTHER forms of leadership that a not-overly-verbal leader like Kyle can (and does frequently) demonstrate. Namely, he is the toughest SOB on the team. He does whatever is needed to help the team win. He clearly thinks team-first. He plays injured. And, very, very importanly, as much as anyone on the team he has everyone's respect. Those are all critical elements of leadership as well. BTW, I think that he's a little more vocal than you may give credit, but that said you're right that he isn't the most outspoken fellow...

In the end I like the selection. Our team is in good hands with Nolan and Kyle, and they compliment each other well too.

:D

[SilkyJ]

No one's buying what you're saying.


\ but how I view a leader I guess is different then how u guys do. I see leaders like battier duhon paulus and lance from last yr. where these players the best players on their teams maybe but probly not. \

Really? You want to lump Battier and Duhon in with Lance and Paulus?

Not sure if you knew, but Battier was the national player of the year and has his jersey in the rafters. Recent development.

[Big Pappa]

]I think you're just focused on the VOCAL/talkative kind, and the other posters are saying that there's OTHER forms of leadership that a not-overly-verbal leader like Kyle can (and does frequently) demonstrate. Namely, he is the toughest SOB on the team. He does whatever is needed to help the team win. He clearly thinks team-first. He plays injured. And, very, very importanly, as much as anyone on the team he has everyone's respect. BTW, I think that he's a little more vocal than you may realize, but that said you're right that he isn't the most outspoken fellow.


These are all good points. The most accurate one IMO is the toughness of Kyle. He reminds me of JJ the way he doesn't back down from anyone. He doesn't care if Larry Drew shoves him or if Cousins does. He will be up in their face just the same. Obviously he isn't as vocal as JJ was (although I agree that he is more vocal than people think), but he exemplifies the same toughness. Toughness is something you must have when you play for Duke. With all the extra mental and physical stress opposing players and fans put on them, they have to stay tough.

[ElSid]

yeah we have nothing to worry about.
we're really grasping at things to talk about because it's the most obvious choice in the world. we can laud coach k for making a wise choice, but really it's the only one.
they're both great representatives for the team.
to be honest, nolan is vocal but he doesn't seem as mean out there. i like that nolan has a consistent, positive demeanor. but i feel like he's more likely to be good cop when a younger player needs urging on. kyle can play bad cop...like, he doesn't say much but when he talks you know he's mad and you better listen and get a stupid rebound or make a hustle play.
and kyle did get as animated as anyone on last year's team, which by historical standards isn't high, when he started hitting a few shots in a row. i think he's got plenty of swag. he'll speak up when he needs to.

[DukeBlueNV]

Bdbd- if u look close u can see lance is clearly looking at Nelson and singlers mouth is shut. That said it's just a photo and doesn't disprove or prove anyones case.

Silky- trust me I know about battier. He is my favorite duke player! Obviously paulus and lance don't come close to battier is any category but my point was they were vocal leaders when on the floor. I remember paulus yelling at players who were out of postition from the bench his senior season.

Elsid- good points, the meanness factor is something I'd did really think about. I think acting like the other team is your enemy is key in keeping the team focused. And u might be right in ur comparison between Kyle and Nolan in that respect. Also I appreciate u not slamming my opinion and just making ur points.

Everyone I will admit that u guys are all making great points about kyle's leadership style which is different then most. But Everyone can stop defending him like I'm saying he doesn't deserve the captain status. he is going to go down as one of my personal favorite players to come through but compare his leadership to battiers' doesn't come close to being as vocal, toughness and leading by example he is in the discussion but I wanted to talk about Nolan and how I think he is gonna be a great captain and that I thought there might have been some interesting discussion on what type of dynamics there would be if he where the lone captain.

[slower]

...but I wanted to talk about Nolan and how I think he is gonna be a great captain and that I thought there might have been some interesting discussion on what type of dynamics there would be if he where the lone captain.

Look, it's NOT going to happen that way, so why are you still wasting breath talking about it?

You have been schooled by numerous long-time posters here and you still don't seem to grasp that WE GET YOUR POINT.

Nolan and Kyle will be just fine as co-captains. And just because you don't think Kyle is a true "leader" doesn't mean that it's true. He's been leading by example ever since he got here. Another poster pointed out that he moved other guys into the correct position numerous times last year, and he did the same thing to Paulus and others before that. Kyle will do what it takes - if that means being more "vocal", I think he's up to the task.

Kyle is totally about winning, which is a fairly important trait for a leader to have.

[DukeVol]

I feel like this thread should be on Twitter.

"cuz u know kyle is like a whack leader cuz he be not talkin and stuff and ppl be saying nolan is a gooder leader"


Am I on DBR?

How much does it cost to buy a Shift key these days?

[cato]

trust me I know about battier.

There is a saying about trust.

[allenmurray]

Bdbd- if u look close u can see lance is clearly looking at Nelson and singlers mouth is shut. That said it's just a photo and doesn't disprove or prove anyones case.

Silky- trust me I know about battier. He is my favorite duke player! Obviously paulus and lance don't come close to battier is any category but my point was they were vocal leaders when on the floor. I remember paulus yelling at players who were out of postition from the bench his senior season.

Elsid- good points, the meanness factor is something I'd did really think about. I think acting like the other team is your enemy is key in keeping the team focused. And u might be right in ur comparison between Kyle and Nolan in that respect. Also I appreciate u not slamming my opinion and just making ur points.

Everyone I will admit that u guys are all making great points about kyle's leadership style which is different then most. But Everyone can stop defending him like I'm saying he doesn't deserve the captain status. he is going to go down as one of my personal favorite players to come through but compare his leadership to battiers' doesn't come close to being as vocal, toughness and leading by example he is in the discussion but I wanted to talk about Nolan and how I think he is gonna be a great captain and that I thought there might have been some interesting discussion on what type of dynamics there would be if he where the lone captain.

For every minute of game time that we get to see they have spent hours in practice time. That is where you grow leadership.

[gep]

For every minute of game time that we get to see they have spent hours in practice time. That is where you grow leadership.

I wanted to say the same thing... most of us Duke fans ONLY see games mostly on TV, and even more don't get to see practices. I think practice is where great leadership is born, not to mention "off the court" too...:)

[DevilHorns]

Kyle is a leader. He leads by his effort on the court. He leads by example. You can see it from how others on the team relate to him. That is all.

[Cockabeau]

Its not just you. Nolan Smith is the leader of this team.
Kyle has a lot of good qualities to him, I am just not sure he was meant to be the leader. And I said the same thing about Jason Williams his junior year. Some kids are born leaders,some aren't.

[Cockabeau]

Kyle is a leader. He leads by his effort on the court. He leads by example. You can see it from how others on the team relate to him. That is all.

Thats not how it works. People said the same thing about DeMarcus and how he lead by example. thats totally bunk.
Leading by example is the most erroneous, overused cliche in sports.
Since when did working hard and doing what you are supposed to do become leading by example?

[DukeBlueNV]

its not just you. Nolan smith is the leader of this team.
Kyle has a lot of good qualities to him, i am just not sure he was meant to be the leader. And i said the same thing about jason williams his junior year. Some kids are born leaders,some aren't.

thanks for the backup... Im glad someone besides myself agrees with the points i was trying to make. But i say lets leave it alone before all the kyle defenders come out the woodwork and verbally assualt us for "bashing" him.

*EDIT Good example with Jwill, he was by far the best player on the country in 2001 and 2002 but what was the missing ingredient his JR. year???? Battier. The vocal leader of the championship squad the previous year, this is a good example of "leading by example" only going so far...

[Duvall]

Its not just you. Nolan Smith is the leader of this team.
Kyle has a lot of good qualities to him, I am just not sure he was meant to be the leader. And I said the same thing about Jason Williams his junior year. Some kids are born leaders,some aren't.

I am constantly amazed by the willingness of sports fans to pass detailed judgment on the personal character of players that they've only seen on television.

Unbelievable.

[hedevil]

DukeBlueNV, Cockabeau- First off, I'm not jumping on you guys for your opinions. I agree with you both that Nolan is a great vocal leader. However, I don't think it's fair nor accurate to underestimate what Kyle brings to the table as far as being a leader. I'm stating my opinion just as you both have your opinions. If you read what Kyle has said since being named a captain, he has said that he will be more vocal this season because that's what a captain does. So we're basically pre-judging his role anyways.

Being a Bulls fan, I see Kyle as the Derrick Rose of the Devils. The Bulls go as Rose goes, and Duke goes as Kyle goes. For myself, that shows leadership by example. Neither Rose nor Kyle are the most vocal players on their respective teams, however, when they step up their play it seems to have a ripple effect. Sometimes all it takes to motivate a team is for one guy (many times Singler) to dive for a loose ball, to hit a couple of big back to back shots, or to make that big defensive play. What sets Kyle apart from other players who might share these qualities at times is the consistency of which he does it. He never lets up, and frankly, it's contagious. He won't allow the team to let up.

Bottom line, Kyle is a captain of this team and deservedly so. Will he be more vocal as he claims he will try to be? We'll see.
Will he lead by example with his play as he has for three years? No doubt!

Again, I'm not jumping on you guys or rushing to Kyle's defense (who am I?), I just happen to disagree with you that leadership isn't shown by example.

[DukeBlueNV]

Again, I'm not jumping on you guys or rushing to Kyle's defense (who am I?), I just happen to disagree with you that leadership isn't shown by example.

Can't believe Im writing this again **cue quotation with "me either" underneath this** but I never said that Kyle didn't lead in his own way. My original point/opinion was that I thought Nolan was the clear-cut leader of this team (with all due respect to Singler and his game) and I was curious what effect having him as the single captain would have on him and the team. Nobody, apparently, wants to talk about that (which is fine :rolleyes:). I agree that Singler leads by example which is great, but i still say Nolan is the guy the team will look to in critical situations and I sincerly hope Kyle does step up his vocal leadership and if that is what he said, I'll trust that he will.

[Newton_14]

Can't believe Im writing this again **cue quotation with "me either" underneath this** but I never said that Kyle didn't lead in his own way. My original point/opinion was that I thought Nolan was the clear-cut leader of this team (with all due respect to Singler and his game) and I was curious what effect having him as the single captain would have on him and the team. Nobody, apparently, wants to talk about that (which is fine :rolleyes:). I agree that Singler leads by example which is great, but i still say Nolan is the guy the team will look to in critical situations and I sincerly hope Kyle does step up his vocal leadership and if that is what he said, I'll trust that he will.

Hmm, I think you may want to go back and read post 37 again. I gave you valid reasons why it was not better for Nolan or the team to have him as the lone captain.

[cato]

My original point/opinion was that I thought Nolan was the clear-cut leader of this team (with all due respect to Singler and his game) and I was curious what effect having him as the single captain would have on him and the team. Nobody, apparently, wants to talk about that (which is fine :rolleyes:).

Well, if you still want to discuss it, the effect on the team is exactly why I think it would silly to tab Nolan as the solo guy. As I said before:


I cannot see why the coaching staff would even consider driving a wedge between the two remaining members of the Big 3 by elevating one above the other.

[gumbomoop]

Can't believe Im writing this again.... I was curious what effect having him [Nolan] as the single captain would have on him and the team. Nobody, apparently, wants to talk about that (which is fine).

Nor can I believe that I am about to ignore Alexander Pope's advice not to rush in where angels fear to tread.

Why have very few engaged your hypothetical? (1) It's no longer even hypothetical, and so is unlikely to engage much of anyone. Save fools, like me. (2) Even if it were not a now-absolutely-impossible-hypothetical, multiple posters have disagreed explicitly with your implicit criticisms of KS's leadership potential, have explicitly and implicitly agreed with your enthusiastic vouching for NS's leadership [I]bona fides, and - I'm a bit less certain on this point - have mostly ignored your speculations on the [hypothetical] impact on NS's confidence of a [now-absolutely-impossible] designation as sole captain. I think - again, semi-educated guesswork here - most posters do not think NS would gain one whit of confidence or leadership-perfection or game-betterment were he to be sole captain. I'd guess most think that NS's likely response to being designated sole captain would be, "What the crap is that idiot K thinking? Doesn't he know how bad I feel that Kyle's being treated shabbily? Screw K. I'm going to Europe." [NS has apparently been following the fluctuation in the Euro.]

As to Cockabeau's skepticism re leading by example, I respectfully disagree, not that it's never a cliche - for Cockabeau is correct that too frequently it is - but that it's always a cliche. No one will be surprised that I will use KS as an example of the appropriate use of the overused phrase. If it is true that, especially these last couple of years, and even more especially in '09-'10, Duke was universally admired [by the Not-Stoopids] for "playing every play," then I speculate that, among the players, KS, every bit as much as LT [and that's saying something] was perceived as the exemplar par excellence of playing every bloody play. In KS's case, it frequently did involve blood, in both a literal sense - either his or an opponent's - or in a metaphorical sense - as in "blood in his eyes." Here I should perhaps fear not angels but irritation on the part of fellow posters for repeating my own mantra re KS: he was fiercely angry, pissed off, usually visibly so, especially on D, the last half of last season. He had blood in his bloody eyes. He exemplified "Duke plays every play." He led by example. As a frenetic cliche, he seems to have been remarkably forceful. But then Duke guys are perhaps easy preys for cliches. Personally, I pray for more cliches, every season I can get 'em, like KS's leadership by example.

[DukeBlueNV]

"I cannot see why the coaching staff would even consider driving a wedge between the two remaining members of the Big 3 by elevating one above the other."

Good point, I didnt really think in those terms.


most posters do not think NS would gain one whit of confidence or leadership-perfection or game-betterment were he to be sole captain. I'd guess most think that NS's likely response to being designated sole captain would be, "What the crap is that idiot K thinking? Doesn't he know how bad I feel that Kyle's being treated shabbily? Screw K. I'm going to Europe." [NS has apparently been following the fluctuation in the Euro.]

Although most posters may agree with you, I don't. I think Nolan would flurish as the lone captain of the team. I saw it like Demarcus Nelson as a senior (I think Nolan is more ready and capable of handling that role then Nelson) and I thought it was an interesting senario. I do agree the thought would enter his mind as to why Singler wasnt named captian but I think with him playing with the mentality of "this is my team, i cant let them down" along with his natural vocal leadership ablities this would be great for him and the team. On the other hand, I admit that there is no need to do that, him and Kyle together as captains was the right move. My post was for just for debate of the hypothetical situation.

[airowe]

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204947927

[BD80]

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204947927

I thought that Coach K generally made his seniors captains. Going back to his roots, West Point, he believes that leadership is a critical part of team building. Every cadet is trained to be an officer, a leader of men. Coach K treats his players the same way.

I know, I know, Calipari does the same thing. [snort]

Not every player can lead a team simultaneously, and every player must lead in his own way. Although the captains aren't always seniors, seniors are often (usually?) captains. Kyle has deferred a leadership role to older players even though he has been our best player for several years. This will be a great experience for him.

I thought it was very telling that Coach K said that Kyle will be our defensive leader. We lost our three best defenders and return only Nolan and Kyle who can be considered "good" defenders. We have much work to do this year on the defensive end.

I also think Mason's comment about working hard ALL of the time is critical. I hope he is not just repeating what his coaches have been trying to hammer into him. I hope he is really taking the message to heart. If so, the Devils might do pretty darn well next year :)

[DevilHorns]

Thats not how it works. People said the same thing about DeMarcus and how he lead by example. thats totally bunk.
Leading by example is the most erroneous, overused cliche in sports.
Since when did working hard and doing what you are supposed to do become leading by example?

Haha. This is hilarious.

I don't know Kyle personally. I'm guessing you don't either. The only "evidence" most fans have are from games. But there is more out there--- Go check out dukeblueplanet.com and scope out some of the character videos of the players. You can see what they think of Kyle. Go watch or read some of the comments by senior leaders Scheyer, Zoubs, and Lance about Kyle. There's a lot of video about how this season went and how the players developed. Go scope it out. You'll see what you need there.