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View Full Version : Brown Gone, Ferry Gone, LeBron Next?



ElSid
05-13-2010, 10:55 PM
LeBron and the Cavs lose again.

What's going to happen?

How much time left in Ferry's stay in Cleveland?

LeBron almost with a quadruple double. Only one turnover away.

Welcome2DaSlopes
05-13-2010, 10:57 PM
Hope he goes to the Nets, or the Knicks

kingboozer
05-13-2010, 10:57 PM
I don't think Danny Ferry will go anywhere, LeBron is as good as in a Knicks jersey though.

CrazieDUMB
05-13-2010, 10:58 PM
yeah but he had a pretty bad shooting percentage (8-21 i think) and 9 turnovers. Not the way he envisioned going out.

I hope he goes to the knicks

BattierD12
05-13-2010, 11:10 PM
Ferry is safe I think. He did a pretty good job getting talent. Two months ago, every analyst said Cleveland had the best talent now with Antawn Jamison to win a championship. Now he doesn't? Frankly, I think Mike Brown is to blame. He has poor offensive plays and is incredibly inconsistent in rotations. I think he will be fired. My guess, Lebron goes to Chicago.

hedevil
05-13-2010, 11:15 PM
Lebron one? GOOD!:D

ElSid
05-13-2010, 11:18 PM
I would agree Mike Brown probably takes the fall.

The team looked downright apathetic on "the biggest game in Cleveland sports history".

TheBrianZoubekExperience
05-13-2010, 11:18 PM
I think he more likely to go to the Bulls than Knicks. I can only see Knicks if Bosh is going too. If not, it would be pretty dumb to pair up with Joe Johnson or no one on a horrible team. Bulls seem to make the most sense from a competitive standpoint if he wants to win.

I think the Nets are a possibility to if they land top pick or even second pick.

If they got the second pick and took Turner they would start Harris, Turner, Lebron, Yi (or maybe someone to be signed) and Lopez. Courtney Lee 6th man.

If they landed Wall they could trade Harris for a player or a pick. I'd think Harris could at least yield the Pacers 10th pick for selecting a young PF like Ekpe, Ed Davis, etc.

Then they would start Wall, Lee, Lebron, PF (Davis/Udoh), Lopez. And he'd get NYC and teaming up with Jay Z.

Bulls are safer option since Rose is a more known quantity than Wall but NJ is pretty realistic if they hit a top pick.

hedevil
05-13-2010, 11:19 PM
My bad

That's Lebron gone? GOOD:D

BD80
05-13-2010, 11:26 PM
Hope he goes to the Nets, or the Knicks

He'll get the max deal, but I'll bet he has player options every year after a couple of years. He gets the most money with the Cavs.

Nets have more talent, better prospects. But playing in Jersey for two years would suck. Jay Z is the wild card. For some reason I see Jay Z being the deciding factor. I think LBJ sees himself as that kind of entrepreneur.

If LeBron thought the Cleveland fans were finicky, wait until he gets a good dose of New York fans. Ask Patrick Ewing about Knick fans.

Will Ferry make a deal with the devil and hire Calipari to keep LeBron?

If LeBron leaves, there will be money for a big money free agent. Carlos Boozer will be available. That would go over well in Cleveland, no?

dukeballboy88
05-13-2010, 11:27 PM
Lebron looked tired, almost run down. he has never ben a great shooter so when the legs go the shot goes. he j looked flat and he had no lift and watching his decision making showed he was wore out.

Lebron is going to the Nets along with D Wade and Boozer or Chris Bosh. you heard it here first.

BD80
05-13-2010, 11:42 PM
Ferry should be fired.

He brought in a tar heel (Jamison) as the "missing piece" to get them to the championship.

Jamison got abused tonight.

Danny needs some Duke guys to right the ship :)

BD80
05-13-2010, 11:49 PM
I think he more likely to go to the Bulls than Knicks. ...

I think the Nets are a possibility to if they land top pick or even second pick. ...

If they landed Wall they could trade Harris for a player or a pick. I'd think Harris could at least yield the Pacers 10th pick for selecting a young PF like Ekpe, Ed Davis, etc. ...

If the Nets land LeBron, they should trade Harris or their #1 pick for a playoff proven vet, like the Piston's Prince or Hamilton.

MisterRoddy
05-14-2010, 12:13 AM
I say the top 3 to land LBJ are:

1) Cavs, Hometown, Loyalty, Calipari? etc.

2) Bulls, Rose, Chitown, Calipari?

3) Heat, Wade, Miami

I think the best opportunity to win would be Miami as they have enough money to sign Wade, Lebron/Bosh, and another max player, on top of that they have 3 draft picks and the possibility of trading Mike Beasley for another big time player.

I hope he goes to either Chigago or stays in Cleveland as I think tht would provide a good possibility for Cal leaving for the coaching job and therefore easing our recruiting efforts (Q in particular):D

JasonEvans
05-14-2010, 12:16 AM
I have a good friend who is extremely well connected in NBA circles (he's a former NBA player). He said to me tonight that Lebron is probably going to Chicago. They have cap space to sign him and get another significant player. Plus, he would play alongside a very good nucleus already in place.

Rose, Lebron, Deng, and Noah would be a darn good core of players. My friend said he could see the Bulls perhaps also getting Boozer, but I don't think they have that much cap space.

--Jason "my buddy also says the Hawks will fire Mike Woodson because Joe Johnson hates him and there is no way Johnson re-signs with the Hawks if Woody stays there" Evans

muzikfrk75
05-14-2010, 12:21 AM
I have a good friend who is extremely well connected in NBA circles (he's a former NBA player). He said to me tonight that Lebron is probably going to Chicago. They have cap space to sign him and get another significant player. Plus, he would play alongside a very good nucleus already in place.

Rose, Lebron, Deng, and Noah would be a darn good core of players. My friend said he could see the Bulls perhaps also getting Boozer, but I don't think they have that much cap space.

--Jason "my buddy also says the Hawks will fire Mike Woodson because Joe Johnson hates him and there is no way Johnson re-signs with the Hawks if Woody stays there" Evans


There's NO WAY Joe Johnson is staying with the Hawks, especially after he made that comment that basically said that he doesn't care for the Hawks' fans.

Mike Brown is probably gone as the Cavs coach. As for where Lebron is going, your guess is as good as mine. He doesn't even know yet. I do know that the Clippers have a LOT of talent there (but no coach).

ElSid
05-14-2010, 12:23 AM
Well if LeBron goes to Chicago, I hope they don't hire Calipari. I don't see it happening anyway. I think LeBron needs a real coach.

What a nasty line up in the Chi if that happens. Boozer would be icing on the cake. Maybe Boozer would do it just to increase chances of winning a title? Take a bit less? Blasphemy, I know. Would be nice to get two Dukies a ring at the same time, per season.

Big Pappa
05-14-2010, 12:24 AM
I have a good friend who is extremely well connected in NBA circles (he's a former NBA player). He said to me tonight that Lebron is probably going to Chicago. They have cap space to sign him and get another significant player. Plus, he would play alongside a very good nucleus already in place.

Rose, Lebron, Deng, and Noah would be a darn good core of players. My friend said he could see the Bulls perhaps also getting Boozer, but I don't think they have that much cap space.



That would be a really interesting scenario. Despite my disdain for Noah, I would have to pull for the Bulls because of Deng and the King. Maybe they could just trade Noah for Booz, Kevin O'Conner likes giving away good players for very little: http://www.sltrib.com/sports/ci_14434166

MisterRoddy
05-14-2010, 12:27 AM
Well if LeBron goes to Chicago, I hope they don't hire Calipari. I don't see it happening anyway. I think LeBron needs a real coach.

What a nasty line up in the Chi if that happens. Boozer would be icing on the cake. Maybe Boozer would do it just to increase chances of winning a title? Take a bit less? Blasphemy, I know. Would be nice to get two Dukies a ring at the same time, per season.

Why not Cal to Chi? Aren't you more interested in our recruiting than the coaching situation in Chicago?

Big Pappa
05-14-2010, 12:32 AM
Why not Cal to Chi? Aren't you more interested in our recruiting than the coaching situation in Chicago?

Very good point. I would LOVE to have him out of college basketball.

ElSid
05-14-2010, 12:35 AM
Why not Cal to Chi? Aren't you more interested in our recruiting than the coaching situation in Chicago?

I'm a Bulls fan and don't want to taint that. If it means Cal leaving college basketball, I guess I could cope. I'd be less of a Bulls fan, though. It would be worth it to see Ashley Judd cry.

Big Pappa
05-14-2010, 12:40 AM
I'm a Bulls fan and don't want to taint that. If it means Cal leaving college basketball, I guess I could cope. I'd be less of a Bulls fan, though. It would be worth it to see Ashley Judd cry.

Cal needs to leave but you can see Ashley fake cry in tons of her movies (Where the Heart Is, Simon Birch, etc.). She is such a gifted... (insert Ron Burgundy question mark voice here) actress?

ChicagoCrazy84
05-14-2010, 12:42 AM
That would be a really interesting scenario. Despite my disdain for Noah, I would have to pull for the Bulls because of Deng and the King. Maybe they could just trade Noah for Booz, Kevin O'Conner likes giving away good players for very little: http://www.sltrib.com/sports/ci_14434166


No chance that the Bulls shop around Noah. The guy is the second best commodity that team has right behind Derrick Rose.
This is prime position for John Paxson and he has to do something right. Bulls fans are at the edge of their seat for someone like LeBron and if Paxson does not deliver, the guy is toast and will never see an NBA front office again. I'd be shocked if LeBron goes elsewhere and it is not Chicago.

ElSid
05-14-2010, 12:46 AM
Cal needs to leave but you can see Ashley fake cry in tons of her movies (Where the Heart Is, Simon Birch, etc.). She is such a gifted... (insert Ron Burgundy question mark voice here) actress?

Yeah, this doesn't do it for me. I can see right through it. I'll only be satisfied if it's real crying and it's at a Kentucky game that they lose badly to some team next season and she's wearing a Kentucky t-shirt and someone worse than Billy Gillespie is the coach.

ElSid
05-14-2010, 12:53 AM
No chance that the Bulls shop around Noah. The guy is the second best commodity that team has right behind Derrick Rose.
This is prime position for John Paxson and he has to do something right. Bulls fans are at the edge of their seat for someone like LeBron and if Paxson does not deliver, the guy is toast and will never see an NBA front office again. I'd be shocked if LeBron goes elsewhere and it is not Chicago.

Noah is a huge buffoon in a lot of ways but he's proving to be a wonderful player. I wouldn't want to lose him. I was happy when the Bulls drafted him and said so and took flak from some fellow NBA watchers.

Paxson could solidify his demise by signing Joe Johnson, in my opinion. Don't think that guy's going to be very good.

Mike Corey
05-14-2010, 01:02 AM
I think James sticks around.

-bdbd
05-14-2010, 01:03 AM
I always have been rooting for the Cavs b/c of Ferry. I think he's done a decent job and would only be pushed out if (A) LJ leaves, and (B) The team does really poorly next year. He's got at least one more year.

On ESPN after the game, on SC and on their NBA show, the discussion seemed to center around 3 leaders for Lebron - Clev., NJ, and Chicago, though others were mentioned such as NY and Mia. Mashburn think NJ. Avery thinks the Bulls.


Chi. - Seems to be a slight favorite. They have some real quality pieces (such as Rose) to surround LJ, as well as to trade for another superstar (including Luol). Negative: Who's the coach?

Clev. - Pluses include that he is loyal and has lots of friends and businesses there. They also apparently give him the best shot at winning now, or soon.

NJ/Brooklyn - Positives: New owner with tons of money, a strong very young nucleus (will start and continue winning soon) and have access to the NY media market. LJ apparently has a lot of good friends in NY area, including a minority owner in the Nets. Neg.: Losing tradition, moving homes twice in two years.

NY - Positives: The media market, endorsements, the center of everything for his later business ambitions. Neg.: The cubboard is bare. It will take a while.

My bet: Even HE doesn't know yet, but I'd put Clev and Chicago as co-favorites, then NJ.

Lots of discussion as to whether 2 or even three of the mega-star players can band together in one place - such as LJ and Bosch going to NY. Mello and LJ to Chi-town, or Bosch and Wade in Miami. This really will be an awesome free-agent year.

Big Pappa
05-14-2010, 01:16 AM
NJ/Brooklyn - Positives: New owner with tons of money, a strong very young nucleus (will start and continue winning soon) and have access to the NY media market. LJ apparently has a lot of good friends in NY area, including a minority owner in the Nets. Neg.: Losing tradition, moving homes twice in two years.


Also a good shot at the #1 pick and his buddy John Wall.

ElSid
05-14-2010, 01:24 AM
Didn't really think Ferry was going to be on the hot seat. I think he's done just about everything he can. But, wanted to put something in the thread to make it more Duke related.

I kind of hope LeBron stays in Cleveland and gives that city a championship. It was making me sick at the end of the game when they showed all the late game playoff disasters of NFL and NBA. It's just mean. And then people turn off their TVs and they're still in Cleveland. It's a tragedy.

greybeard
05-14-2010, 01:26 AM
How does a guy built like that injure his elbow so severely without a noticeable precipitating incident? Shooting fall-all away 3s from real distance 23 feet plus. The fall away shot must provide some sort of platform to leverage arm extension against, MJ and Kobe coined that shot mostly at the baseline from 15, but from 23 plus, it must take tremendous force through the release of the ball. The problem is, no follow through with the body is possible, Ergo, the elbow absorbs the yank and we, LeBron, ends up with a sore elbow.

The elbow was the difference in the series. Don't tell me about triple doubles, the guy played terribly. No jump shot game, rarely got to the rim, when he did he looked to dish instead of finish, which was understandable considering how often he lost the ball in the lane or simply missed on half-baked finishes.

Nope, the only reason that the Cletic won is that LeBron couldn't play anywhere near his normal game which meant the rest of the players couldn't either. The game they have been playing all year revolves on every possession around LeBron; trying to invent something new in the second round of the playoffs will not work and we saw that.

LeBron has great difficulty playing the offensive game without being the occupier of the ball, the scorer/distributer. Anytime your main scorer, as in prolific scorer is your principal ball handler you really aren't playing basketball at anywhere near the level the game is capable of.

Brown is not a bad coach; he's just not a great one, and LeBron like everyone else in this league needs a great one to really get over. I think that NY is the best fit for LeBron because in D'Antoni's offensive system, which is as clever a style as there is, he can be the focal point, he can run the break, which is to say run the offense every time down in a shoot early system. He has things to learn, the old soccer one-two that is a feature that Nash has perfected and keeps him in perpetual danger mode even after a decent defensive stop, a teammate presents for a one-two and Nash is off again this time with more space.

Since this type play, in my opinion will require the least adjustment by LeBron, I see him being a Knick. Oh, Bosh probably as well.

I do not think Brown gets dumped unless LeBron somehow stays. Ferry is staying. He did an admirable job. The elbow don't get hurt, I think Cleveland makes it to the finals. They were built to compete against Orlando and I think would have beat them handlely. The Celtics would not have been but a blip had LeBron been healthy. No, LA, assuming Kobe was ready for the finals, would have beat Cleveland like an old rug.

Big Pappa
05-14-2010, 01:26 AM
Paxson could solidify his demise by signing Joe Johnson, in my opinion. Don't think that guy's going to be very good.

I hope you are joking here because JJ can obsolutely play.

ElSid
05-14-2010, 01:31 AM
I hope you are joking here because JJ can obsolutely play.

Mostly. Just speaking as a Bulls fan, there are better options on the market. Johnson wasn't very good in the playoffs so maybe I'm weighting that a bit heavily, too. I know he can play.

Starter
05-14-2010, 04:17 AM
The elbow was the difference in the series. Don't tell me about triple doubles, the guy played terribly. No jump shot game, rarely got to the rim, when he did he looked to dish instead of finish, which was understandable considering how often he lost the ball in the lane or simply missed on half-baked finishes.



Real talk.

I don't think Ferry did a great job, but he had a plan and did what he thought he had to do. The Cavs' whole season was a Hail Mary to win a title and get LeBron to stay. But his elbow went screwy, and basically everything else Greybeard said was correct about how the whole team was built around him and fell apart.

Mike Brown goes, he's a joke. I do think Ferry stays, but he's not on firm footing considering the fact that I don't believe he got a single A-list player to go along with LeBron that may have put them over the top. Amare would have changed everything, but obviously he didn't get him. Also, there's a lot of sunken costs there:

-- Mo Williams is good and not great, lousy defender. Horrible contract in that he's signed through 2012 with a player option for 2013 that he'll almost certainly take, for a total of 26 million.
-- Shaq is a free agent but was paid 20 million this year. Would have been a good pickup in 2005, not 2009.
-- Jamison is about to turn 34 and is fading offensively and even more so defensively, also owed 28 million through 2012. Shot 2-for-10 in Game 6.
-- Anderson Varejao, basically an average player and not really starter-caliber, signed through 2014 for a total of $32 million.
-- Larry Hughes... not there anymore, but wildly overpaid and completely miscast as a potential championship teammate for LeBron.
-- Ben Wallace... see Larry Hughes.
-- Wally Sczerbiak... see Ben Wallace.
-- Donyell Marshall... you get the picture.

I think the Knicks have a real shot here, and it's not just that I'm a Knicks fan that I'm saying that. I used to work in Newark; LeBron ain't playing there for two years. I can't see him wanting to work in the shadow of a guy who has a statue outside the arena in Chicago, and I don't think he has any love lost for Joakim Noah. The Calipari theory is interesting, but who knows if that holds water? I'll play for the Clippers before LeBron does. And I think he probably can't even bear the sight of his teammates in Cleveland anymore. New York has the Yankees, his friends CC Sabathia and Jay-Z, all sorts of clubs and stuff, and it's the media capital of the world. They have Gallinari and Chandler, will probably chase Rubio and can sign Bosh. We'll see how it goes.

Starter
05-14-2010, 04:41 AM
Adrian Wojnarowski seems to think (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AjJS8f.MRKESUDczg0gj4UA5nYcB?slug=aw-lebroncalipari051410) Calipari is a big part of whatever LeBron's going to do. We'll see if that holds, it'd be a weird tactic for LeBron, but if that's the case, it seems to put Chicago in the mix -- they have a vacancy and would probably hire him in a heartbeat -- and keep Cleveland there, since Brown is highly expendable. It would hurt the Knicks, since they're pretty married to D'Antoni. The Nets would probably go back to the Calipari well if it meant they had a chance here, but I don't think they do.

Cisco
05-14-2010, 06:12 AM
Joe Johnson is a 4 time all star.

Personally, I think it would be VERY Hard for LeBron to leave Cleveland, because he has been there is WHOLE life. 25 years. All his family is there. He grew up there.

However, I would have to say the knicks are his favorite, NOT the Bulls. Granted, he does THINK he is as good as Jordan, but there IS NO WAY he goes to Chicago to prove it.

If i was him , I would be going to the Miami Heat. Anytime there is a chance for me to sign with another player that is 1st team all-nba, especially if i am a playoff loser that cannot win a championship, i would do it. The Heat have enough money for Wade, James, and Boozer. If not boozer, then beasely starting. stamp dat!

TheBrianZoubekExperience
05-14-2010, 07:35 AM
If the Nets land LeBron, they should trade Harris or their #1 pick for a playoff proven vet, like the Piston's Prince or Hamilton.

Yeah, that would probably be better. Little tougher to speculate on which guy they could get but I would think they could get something pretty solid for Devin Harris is they land wall and Lebron.

ChicagoCrazy84
05-14-2010, 08:36 AM
Also a good shot at the #1 pick and his buddy John Wall.


I'd rather play with Derrick Rose. They guy has the strength and a few years on John Wall. Everyone talked about Wall's speed, but I don't think it gets any quicker than DRose.

BD80
05-14-2010, 08:40 AM
I have a good friend who is extremely well connected in NBA circles (he's a former NBA player). He said to me tonight that Lebron is probably going to Chicago. They have cap space to sign him and get another significant player. Plus, he would play alongside a very good nucleus already in place.

Rose, Lebron, Deng, and Noah would be a darn good core of players. My friend said he could see the Bulls perhaps also getting Boozer, but I don't think they have that much cap space. ...

I don't see LBJ and Luol on the same team. Too similar offensively.

A core of Rose, Lebron, and Noah would need a shooter, maybe two (the 2nd a center that steps out, like Okur).

I don't see 'Los taking less than market on this contract. He just went through an expensive divorce didn't he?

jipops
05-14-2010, 09:00 AM
How does a guy built like that injure his elbow so severely without a noticeable precipitating incident? Shooting fall-all away 3s from real distance 23 feet plus. The fall away shot must provide some sort of platform to leverage arm extension against, MJ and Kobe coined that shot mostly at the baseline from 15, but from 23 plus, it must take tremendous force through the release of the ball. The problem is, no follow through with the body is possible, Ergo, the elbow absorbs the yank and we, LeBron, ends up with a sore elbow.

The elbow was the difference in the series. Don't tell me about triple doubles, the guy played terribly. No jump shot game, rarely got to the rim, when he did he looked to dish instead of finish, which was understandable considering how often he lost the ball in the lane or simply missed on half-baked finishes.

Nope, the only reason that the Cletic won is that LeBron couldn't play anywhere near his normal game which meant the rest of the players couldn't either. The game they have been playing all year revolves on every possession around LeBron; trying to invent something new in the second round of the playoffs will not work and we saw that.

LeBron has great difficulty playing the offensive game without being the occupier of the ball, the scorer/distributer. Anytime your main scorer, as in prolific scorer is your principal ball handler you really aren't playing basketball at anywhere near the level the game is capable of.

Brown is not a bad coach; he's just not a great one, and LeBron like everyone else in this league needs a great one to really get over. I think that NY is the best fit for LeBron because in D'Antoni's offensive system, which is as clever a style as there is, he can be the focal point, he can run the break, which is to say run the offense every time down in a shoot early system. He has things to learn, the old soccer one-two that is a feature that Nash has perfected and keeps him in perpetual danger mode even after a decent defensive stop, a teammate presents for a one-two and Nash is off again this time with more space.

Since this type play, in my opinion will require the least adjustment by LeBron, I see him being a Knick. Oh, Bosh probably as well.

I do not think Brown gets dumped unless LeBron somehow stays. Ferry is staying. He did an admirable job. The elbow don't get hurt, I think Cleveland makes it to the finals. They were built to compete against Orlando and I think would have beat them handlely. The Celtics would not have been but a blip had LeBron been healthy. No, LA, assuming Kobe was ready for the finals, would have beat Cleveland like an old rug.


With the deficit cut to 4 Cleveland used 2 of the next 3 possessions with LeBron dumping the ball down to Varejao who promptly blew both attempts in the lane. Something absolutely HAS to be wrong with LeBron's elbow if during a crucial stretch of an elimination game the ball leaves the best player's hands to a guy with almost no scoring ability whatsoever. The game was over after that stretch, the Celts blew the game open sending the deficit back to 12 and Cleveland's opportunity was gone.

LeBron wants to be two things, a holder of muliple rings and a billion dollar athlete. Neither one of those is likely to happen in Cleveland. Ferry did a pretty good job trying to put a team together around LeBron but it obviously didn't work. Mo Williams plays defense like a sheet of paper, Shaq is pretty much a ghost, Jamison never got any cohesion going with the Cavs offense, and I have a hard time seeing a championship team starting a talent like Varejao.

yancem
05-14-2010, 09:29 AM
I hope you are joking here because JJ can obsolutely play.

People really need to stop calling Joe Johnson JJ. Especially Duke fans! I get so confused and have to look through other posts to see how Redick is involved.

Gewebe14
05-14-2010, 10:02 AM
Lebron quit last night and so did his team (not Jamison or green though, as apathetic holes they probably never started trying in the first place) Mo Williams didn't even run up the court with like 35 seconds left down 7 or 8 (very doable comeback in the NBA and even if it wasn't you still try instead of quit.)

Looked to me like he was messed up by mixed feelings about his soon-to-be separation from the city of Cleveland.

Troublemaker
05-14-2010, 10:21 AM
He'll get the max deal, but I'll bet he has player options every year after a couple of years.

Yes, I agree. He'll probably just sign another 3-year contract like he previously did. Since Lebron will be 28 and still in his prime in three years, that leaves a lot of options for this upcoming contract. It leaves Cleveland in play despite the sad situation of their current roster because he'll still be young after three years and may tough it out in Cleveland for now. I kinda doubt that, though. I think he's going to make a ring push now and Chicago is the favorite. It's even possible for Lebron to sign with the Bulls for three years and then make a homecoming to Cleveland in 2013 if the Cavs' roster improves by then. Cleveland fans would even sort of understand and forgive him under that scenario, imo.

Ultimately, though, I think in 2013 he signs a long-term contract with the Nets to be with his friend Jay-Z. The Nets aren't ready for Lebron yet. They'll be playing in Newark for two years and just finished a historically bad season, but in 2012 the Brooklyn arena will open and the team will be re-branded the "Brooklyn Nets" or "New York Nets." I think New York is Lebron's planned final destination all along, planned by himself, WWW, and Jay-Z. But, in the meantime, as in these next 3 years, he'll play where he has a great chance to win a championship and also make a tribute to his favorite player, MJ. Lebron idolizes Jordan, wants jersey #23 to be retired across the league, and is planning on changing his own number from #23 to #6 next season. He has to. #23 is retired in Chicago.

David
05-14-2010, 11:07 AM
Interesting tweet from the SportsGuy Bill Simmons: "BTW Cleveland - best bet is still that LBJ stays. But LBJ's camp will insist Ferry/Brown get canned before they even *discuss* returning."

Danny Ferry is one of my alltime favorite Blue Devils but he has done a subpar job as GM of the Cavs. You have a once-in-a-generation talent and the key is to surround him with 1-2 other elite players, a good supporting cast and a good coach. Ferry has failed at surrounding LBJ with elite players. If we were drafting players off the Cavs and Celtics for a game tonight, LBJ goes first but the next four picks are Celtics (in some order: Rondo, KG, Pierce, R Allen). Mo Williams is not the 2nd best player on a championship team; Jamison is not the third best, etc. Look at MJ's supporting cast on his championship teams (Pippen, Grant/Rodman), same for Tim Duncan's teammates (Robinson, Manu, Parker), look at Kobe's current teammates (Gasol, Odom), etc. Don't even get me started on the coaching of Mike Brown. He should have been fired after Game 5.

hurleyfor3
05-14-2010, 11:09 AM
As a native Pittsburgher I'll admit to some shadenfreude over another Cleveland sports team collapse.

Games Five and Six need some sort of name beginning with "The". This would be consistent with other famous losses in Cleveland sports lore. We already have The Catch, The Drive, The Fumble and The Shot (NBA edition). What should this be, The Indifference?

BattierD12
05-14-2010, 11:25 AM
As a native Pittsburgher I'll admit to some shadenfreude over another Cleveland sports team collapse.

Games Five and Six need some sort of name beginning with "The". This would be consistent with other famous losses in Cleveland sports lore. We already have The Catch, The Drive, The Fumble and The Shot (NBA edition). What should this be, The Indifference?

Sportscenter came up with a good one last night describing the whole series: "The Elbow"

With regards to Ferry, the one issue I have with how he proceeded with surrounding LeBron with talent was his refusal to give up JJ Hickson for Amare Stoudamire. I understand that Hickson has a promising future, but the Cavs organization had to realize that it was now or never. Stoudamire >>> Hickson, and hey, Hickson barely got any minutes in the playoffs.

Give up JJ, get Amare, and the Cavs would finally have a legit 1-2 tandum that could have been the start of the dynasty.

Big Pappa
05-14-2010, 11:25 AM
I don't see LBJ and Luol on the same team. Too similar offensively.



This is a fair point but if the Bulls like Deng they'll keep him and bring in LBJ too. Deng is not on a level close to Lebron so it really doesn't matter if they are playing together. Deng won't take too many shots away from Lebron or he will ride the pine, and he knows that.

pfrduke
05-14-2010, 11:34 AM
This is a fair point but if the Bulls like Deng they'll keep him and bring in LBJ too. Deng is not on a level close to Lebron so it really doesn't matter if they are playing together. Deng won't take too many shots away from Lebron or he will ride the pine, and he knows that.

Deng gives them a lot of versatility, too. They can play a smallish lineup with Rose, a 2 guard, Deng and Lebron on the floor with a center and not suffer too greatly in terms of size. That's a lineup that could play about 12 minutes a game together and be very dangerous.

Big Pappa
05-14-2010, 11:42 AM
Deng gives them a lot of versatility, too. They can play a smallish lineup with Rose, a 2 guard, Deng and Lebron on the floor with a center and not suffer too greatly in terms of size. That's a lineup that could play about 12 minutes a game together and be very dangerous.

This is a good point. My main point with my previous post was that the Bulls will not say, "We already have Deng we don't need to rbing in Lebron" or "If we get Lebron we need to get rid of Deng because they are too similar on offense."

Honestly no one is similar to Lebron on offense really. He has a very different game on offense than other super-stars (Kobe, Melo, etc.) and anyone who may have a similar game is on such a different level that it really doesn't matter if they are playing with him.

left_hook_lacey
05-14-2010, 11:52 AM
Ferry is safe I think. He did a pretty good job getting talent. Two months ago, every analyst said Cleveland had the best talent now with Antawn Jamison to win a championship. Now he doesn't? Frankly, I think Mike Brown is to blame. He has poor offensive plays and is incredibly inconsistent in rotations. I think he will be fired. My guess, Lebron goes to Chicago.

His plays often include the old "Give Lebron the ball at the top of the key and everyone else clear out" play. It is a disturbing trend in the NBA offense. I can't stand to watch it personally. It usually ends with Lebron getting a foul call, throwing up an off-balance shot, or getting by the defender for a dunk. Not basketball in my opinion. Can't blame Mike Brown for using the best player in the league though.

That being said, I think a better coach would've done more witht his team though.

houstondukie
05-14-2010, 12:07 PM
Very good point. I would LOVE to have him out of college basketball.

Why? I don't.

Calipari is bad for college basketball, but he is not bad for Duke.

I have no problem with Calipari signing the best one-and-done talent each year for two reasons:

1. Too much inexperience will never win a national championship
2. Keeps top talent away from unc

MulletMan
05-14-2010, 12:07 PM
As a native Pittsburgher I'll admit to some shadenfreude over another Cleveland sports team collapse.

Games Five and Six need some sort of name beginning with "The". This would be consistent with other famous losses in Cleveland sports lore. We already have The Catch, The Drive, The Fumble and The Shot (NBA edition). What should this be, The Indifference?

I believe the phrase you're looking for is The LeBacle.

And to whoever above said that Cleveland would forgive LeBron if he left and came back... you have no idea what you're talking about. None.

UrinalCake
05-14-2010, 12:11 PM
Bill Simmons had a guest on his podcast a few months ago who made a really good point (sorry, don't remember who it was). He said that Cleveland has been going about this all wrong. They've been operating under the premise that if they can get Lebron a title, he'll stay. So they've sacrificed their future in an attempt to win now. Instead, they should be bringing in a lot of younger, talented guys who Lebron can "grow old" with. Because regardless of what happens this season, when he assesses his options he's going to want to play for a team that he can build a dynasty with. And he's not building a dynasty with Antawn Jamison and Shaq.

I guess it remains to be seen if this is true...

hurleyfor3
05-14-2010, 12:20 PM
I believe the phrase you're looking for is The LeBacle.


Oh, for the win... did I say that right?

David
05-14-2010, 12:58 PM
--Jason "my buddy also says the Hawks will fire Mike Woodson because Joe Johnson hates him and there is no way Johnson re-signs with the Hawks if Woody stays there" Evans

As expected, Woodson was fired by the Hawks:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5188712

I still don't think Joe Johnson is re-signing with them, but we shall see.

ElSid
05-14-2010, 01:09 PM
As expected, Woodson was fired by the Hawks:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5188712

I still don't think Joe Johnson is re-signing with them, but we shall see.

Good. Several times this post season, people rightly observed that the Hawks played together like a bunch of disinterested AAU players. Not sure a new coach will make that big of a culture difference, but it's worth a shot.

duke1983
05-14-2010, 01:14 PM
I also heard rumors that if Lebron and/or Dwayne Wade go to Chicago Coach K might join them since he's from that area. Obviously, that's not going to happen given the fact that K wants continue his legacy at Duke, but it's just funny what people come up with sometimes!

ThePublisher
05-14-2010, 01:15 PM
I really can't see LeBron going to the Bulls, there would be WAY TOO MANY MJ comparisions. He would be considered a failure if he didn't bring them a ton of championships. Where he could go elsewhere, win a few rings and be a hero. I doubt anyone would want that pressure w/ the Bulls.
I hope he goes to Atlanta. Him and Joe would be steller. Esp if they hire a decent coach.

BD80
05-14-2010, 01:16 PM
As a native Pittsburgher I'll admit to some shadenfreude over another Cleveland sports team collapse.

Games Five and Six need some sort of name beginning with "The". This would be consistent with other famous losses in Cleveland sports lore. We already have The Catch, The Drive, The Fumble and The Shot (NBA edition). What should this be, The Indifference?

Go Stillers!

How about "The Tank"


This is a fair point but if the Bulls like Deng they'll keep him and bring in LBJ too. Deng is not on a level close to Lebron so it really doesn't matter if they are playing together. Deng won't take too many shots away from Lebron or he will ride the pine, and he knows that.

While a good value in terms of contract, Luol still makes over $8 million per year. If they get LeBron and another near max contract post player (Boozer?), that is too much money for the Bulls to spend on a player so much like LeBron offensively. Luol would be a very valuable player/contract to trade.

soccerstud2210
05-14-2010, 01:40 PM
This is a good point. My main point with my previous post was that the Bulls will not say, "We already have Deng we don't need to rbing in Lebron" or "If we get Lebron we need to get rid of Deng because they are too similar on offense."

Honestly no one is similar to Lebron on offense really. He has a very different game on offense than other super-stars (Kobe, Melo, etc.) and anyone who may have a similar game is on such a different level that it really doesn't matter if they are playing with him.

to be honest, lebron and the bulls are a VERY scary team. the pieces are there. and another huge point is the vacancy in the head coaching position. he would probably have some say so in who coaches him. that has to be tempting as well.

we'll see.

ElSid
05-14-2010, 02:44 PM
Hearing that Mike Brown has been fired by the Cavs though a team source denies it. I think Mike Brown was saying he'd be fired?

ElSid
05-14-2010, 03:07 PM
Hearing that Mike Brown has been fired by the Cavs though a team source denies it. I think Mike Brown was saying he'd be fired?

he's still there for now. woops.

cspan37421
05-14-2010, 04:00 PM
The Cavs had the best record in the league this year ... and Ferry & Brown are to blame and should be fired? Really?

I can see how CLE fans are mad and disappointed. And yes, they laid an egg in the playoffs. But you have to consider your alternatives. Remove Brown, Ferry AND LBJ - what is your record going to be next year? I sense a comeback of the Cleveland Cadavers. Perhaps we already saw a preview of it in the Celtics series. You might see that for the first 82 games.

SupaDave
05-14-2010, 04:02 PM
Comedy...

David
05-14-2010, 04:03 PM
to be honest, lebron and the bulls are a VERY scary team. the pieces are there. and another huge point is the vacancy in the head coaching position. he would probably have some say so in who coaches him. that has to be tempting as well.

we'll see.

I agree w/ LBJ to the Bulls - LBJ, Rose and Noah would be a great big three. As suggested in this article, the 'Lebron and the Lebronettes' model is not working in Cleveland:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100514&sportCat=nba

BD80
05-14-2010, 04:14 PM
Comedy...

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1091&d=1273867307

If they only had LBJ taking the picture with one hand and sawing the dock with the other hand ...

kingboozer
05-14-2010, 04:40 PM
Lebron looked tired, almost run down. he has never ben a great shooter so when the legs go the shot goes. he j looked flat and he had no lift and watching his decision making showed he was wore out.

Lebron is going to the Nets along with D Wade and Boozer or Chris Bosh. you heard it here first.

theres 3-4 championships just with those guys, wow what a team that would be:eek:

Cockabeau
05-14-2010, 04:42 PM
I like/respect Ferry but I do not agree with most of his moves. But who really knows-Lebron has so much pull in Cleveland that he could have insisted that Ferry get those players.

If Lebron leaves and I have no doubt he will, the Cavs will have egg all over their face. Mo Williams/Varejo/Jamison eat up alot of money for being average or over the hill players. Those were just bad contracts. I have to believe that Lebron's camp insisted that DF sign those players because Danny is a smart dude.

And I also think if the decisions were 100% DF, than Coach Brown would have been fired three seasons ago. IIRC, Lebron and Mike Brown are/were tight. Again I have to give Danny the benefit of the doubt here. Lebron and his entourage wanted that joke of a coach -thats why they resigned him.

ElSid
05-14-2010, 04:46 PM
Did anyone else enjoy the fact the Antawn Jamison crapped his pants last night? I think he went 2 for 10 or something. Just looked out of place out there.

Now, I really don't like the Celtics. If Shelden ever played, I'd reconsider, but I've been anti ever since the year that the Celtics and Red Sox won championships and then the Pats, mercifully, lost on the miracle of David Tyree in the Super Bowl, but only after a season of supreme smugness. I worked with several Mass-holes at the time and it was brutal. Combine that with the over-tendency for the veteran (entitled) Celts team and coach to complain about fouls at every opportunity, and it was a miserable situation.

So, I hope the Magic make this quick. Hope Vince Carter goes through a major slump and JJ has to come off the bench to save the day. I'd also like to win the lottery.

TampaDuke
05-14-2010, 04:59 PM
Danny Ferry is one of my alltime favorite Blue Devils but he has done a subpar job as GM of the Cavs. You have a once-in-a-generation talent and the key is to surround him with 1-2 other elite players, a good supporting cast and a good coach. Ferry has failed at surrounding LBJ with elite players.

I love Ferry, but I have to agree. If Lebron leaves, Ferry should be let go. The most important job responsibility he had during his tenure was to find a way to ensure that Lebron does not leave, particularly via free agency. And he knows it. If Lebron stays, he succeeded. If he leaves, he hasn't. It might not be fair, or even entirely his fault, but that's just the way it is.

Personally, I thought bringing in Shaq was a poor decision. Not only was he obviously past his prime, but his lackadaisical attitude is infectious. Plus, there's always the danger of him pontificating to Lebron about his views of team loyalty when you're entering free agency and one of the two big markets is willing to give you anything you want.

In my view, if Lebron was about winning and just making max salary, he'd stay in Cleveland (and sign a contract with another out in a few years). However, everything he's said lately indicates he's more into dominating beyond the court as well as off of it. If he leaves, I think that means NY.

TampaDuke
05-14-2010, 05:01 PM
Lebron quit last night and so did his team (not Jamison or green though, as apathetic holes they probably never started trying in the first place) Mo Williams didn't even run up the court with like 35 seconds left down 7 or 8 (very doable comeback in the NBA and even if it wasn't you still try instead of quit.)

If Mike Brown told them to give it up with 45 seconds left, as they clearly did last night, its grounds for a summary firing, IMO.

theAlaskanBear
05-14-2010, 05:07 PM
I like/respect Ferry but I do not agree with most of his moves. But who really knows-Lebron has so much pull in Cleveland that he could have insisted that Ferry get those players.

If Lebron leaves and I have no doubt he will, the Cavs will have egg all over their face. Mo Williams/Varejo/Jamison eat up alot of money for being average or over the hill players. Those were just bad contracts. I have to believe that Lebron's camp insisted that DF sign those players because Danny is a smart dude.

And I also think if the decisions were 100% DF, than Coach Brown would have been fired three seasons ago. IIRC, Lebron and Mike Brown are/were tight. Again I have to give Danny the benefit of the doubt here. Lebron and his entourage wanted that joke of a coach -thats why they resigned him.

That's a little ridiculous. I'm sure LeBron gets input as to the general direction the team is going in, but to suggest that LeBron picked those players and told the GM to sign them is just ludicrous! You have to realize the owner and organization were desperate to win to keep LeBron in town, so they grabbed whoever was available at whatever the price, and the result is a bunch of mediocre overpaid old players, with nowhere to go but down. I'm sorry, but Danny Ferry DOES get some of the blame, he's the freaking GM.

It's really hard to build a championship basketball team. Look at the Mavericks. Look at the Suns. Look at the Jazz. Its one thing to get a team to win 50+ games, and its another entirely to win it all. The Cavs have fielded very very good teams the last 3 years, but they couldnt quite make it. They should be congratulated for the run.

Also, coaching matters!

Big Pappa
05-14-2010, 05:10 PM
to be honest, lebron and the bulls are a VERY scary team. the pieces are there. and another huge point is the vacancy in the head coaching position. he would probably have some say so in who coaches him. that has to be tempting as well.

we'll see.

I agree, I see all the teams that are going after Lebron promising him whatever he wants - including the coaching decision. Chicago, NYC, and even theoretically Cleveland could use this strategy. Lebron is intelligent enough to know that his Coach matters quite a bit and he wants a say in it. I see that being a big part of where he ends up going.

Mike Corey
05-14-2010, 07:09 PM
I think Lebron sticks around Cleveland.

CDu
05-14-2010, 07:49 PM
The Cavs had the best record in the league this year ... and Ferry & Brown are to blame and should be fired? Really?

I can see how CLE fans are mad and disappointed. And yes, they laid an egg in the playoffs. But you have to consider your alternatives. Remove Brown, Ferry AND LBJ - what is your record going to be next year? I sense a comeback of the Cleveland Cadavers. Perhaps we already saw a preview of it in the Celtics series. You might see that for the first 82 games.

The regular season and the playoffs are a different animal. The Cavs were a flawed team last year, and they didn't do much/enough to fix those flaws this year. Parker was a solid acquisition and Jamison was a nice thought, but Shaq didn't really address the team's needs.

Aside from James, the Cavs are limited in that they have very limited players. Some of those players are very skilled in some areas, but few had any versatility. Look at each position:

C: Either a very big and slow player who can score a little bit but can't defend more than 3 feet from the rim, or a good defender/energy guy who can't score at all
PF: either an undersized scorer who can't defend at all, or a good defender/energy guy who can't score at all
SG: either a reasonably big, athletic guard who can score a little (but not consistently) or a very undersized guard who can score a little more (but not consistently) but can't defend bigger guards
PG: a good scorer at times, but not consistent and not a good defender

While James dominated the SF matchup, Boston exploited Cleveland at both the guard and PF/C positions. If Cleveland put Jamison on Garnett, Garnett punished him in the post. If Cleveland put Shaq on Garnett, Garnett took him away from the basket and either drove past him or shot wide open jumpers. If Cleveland played Varejao on Garnett, Cleveland got zero offense from the PF spot. If Cleveland put Williams/West on Rondo, Rondo ate them alive. If Cleveland put Parker on Rondo, then Rondo still did fairly well but Allen took advantage of Williams/West.

And it would have been rough for Cleveland even if they did get past Boston. They wouldn't have gotten past the Lakers, who could create similar matchup problems but even moreso with the uber-talented Gasol at the PF spot.

With James, Cleveland could continue to win 60 games a year in the regular season. But they're still flawed when it comes to 7-game series against the best teams (in which teams have time to practice and focus on specific matchups). And with the roster they currently have at the payroll they currently have, I don't see how they can address the flaws unless guys like Hickson can step up.

I don't know if James will leave, but I think it's going to be very difficult for him to win in Cleveland for the next few years unless Cleveland can get really creative in making roster moves.

CDu
05-14-2010, 07:57 PM
I think Lebron sticks around Cleveland.

I think that's a very real possibility. He can get more money from Cleveland, and he has the hometown tie as well. But I don't think that it's the best decision in terms of winning a championship in the near future.

In terms of chances of winning a title soon, Chicago would seem like a better bet. And as bad as New Jersey was this year, they might not be a terrible option either (with Lopez, Harris, and whomever they get with their high lottery pick this year along with several solid contributors).

Newton_14
05-14-2010, 08:11 PM
Sources are reporting that Brown has in fact been fired:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/HeadlineStories.asp?lc=NBA&c=1&TEAM_ID=&PLAYER_ID=&hd=20100514#STORY_26080

Big Pappa
05-14-2010, 08:26 PM
Sources are reporting that Brown has in fact been fired:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/HeadlineStories.asp?lc=NBA&c=1&TEAM_ID=&PLAYER_ID=&hd=20100514#STORY_26080

Contradictory reports:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5189101

Newton_14
05-14-2010, 08:33 PM
Contradictory reports:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5189101

The plot thickens..

Which way will this world turn when the smoke has cleared?

Indoor66
05-14-2010, 10:03 PM
IMO, LeBron will NEVER win a championship. If he does, he will only win one.

hedevil
05-14-2010, 11:36 PM
The only way Lebron wins a title is with another superstar sharing the load. He simply can't do it surrounded by role players. Personally, My hope is that he never wins one.

In addition, please don't pick my Chicago Bulls. I dislike James to the point that I would rather see Chicago stay on the same, stagnant course, then to win one with that egotystical maniac.

I must admit that it would be fun to see Lebron and Noah playing together given their recent history (verbal tiffs).

Lebron's best options in my opinion (being a Bulls fan) are NY, Cleveland, and NJ.

greybeard
05-15-2010, 12:39 AM
Couple of things:

1. If LeBron's elbow was okay, we are not having this conversation for a while, my guess until the finals, maybe while LeBron drinks from the cup. I think Ferry did brilliantly but for the coach, whom I have to think was LeBron's pick, or at least LeBron gave the okay.

2. Ferry did brilliantly because you cannot judge how the rest of the guys played when the core 75 percent (chosen arbitrarily to make the point) was out of commission but still playing; where do you go and what do you do and when. I do not think that you can blame Jamison for being off; heck, the ball was coming at odd times from odd directions with LeBron half the time simply in the way. Shaq did more than okay. So did the big bushy-haired kid and Mo was near exceptional. The supporting cast was great.

3. The coach was not, nor was it particularly his fault. Brown lacked the gravitas, the weight, the vision of the team game on offense, to bring LeBron into a more sophisticated, less ego-driven concept of how the team should play, should attack the basket, "Together," sharing all the responsibilities, as Doc repeatedly reminded his Celtics. Lebron tried to play that way the last game, and his first approximation was not half bad, but for his inability to carry his load. His turnovers killed the Cavs. They were a function of LeBron's inability to shoot even short jump shots or for the most part attack the rim with a righty finish. That left him confused and vulnerable when in a crowd in the paint, precisely the spots where he is usually most dangerous.

4. John Thompson has an interesting take. First, he said LeBron's best chance at a championship in the shortest amount of time is in Cleveland. Second, he says Brown is gone if LeBron stays unless LeBron affirmatively demands that Brown stays. I do not think that the latter is a possibility, if only because LeBron's team must see that LeBron needs the seasoning, the more mature vision of the game, if he is to reach where he is destined to go, and they surely know that that will take a coach with greater stature and probably a deeper sense of the offensive game than Brown possesses, which is no hit on Brown who surprised me by how well he had his team playing. But, he can not be left off the hook by allowing LeBron to occupy so much ball; it simply is not anywhere near the level of where the game can and needs to be played. Thompson also pointed out that the outskirts of Cleveland are knock down gorgeous and the issue about marketing is a nonissue. NY is great, but, really, how much is LeBron going to be able to enjoy it.

Thompson seems to think that it makes the most sense for LeBron to stay, I should think, although Thompson did not come out and say it, with a new coach, he even went so far as to hint that the rumors of Doc Rivers moving to Chicago to coach LeBron could easily shift to a different city.

AS Jonh Kerr said on Thompson's show, it should be quite interesting come July.

amat1129
05-15-2010, 12:59 AM
sign and trade to the lakers for morrison, walton and a second round pick

theAlaskanBear
05-15-2010, 10:35 AM
The only way Lebron wins a title is with another superstar sharing the load. He simply can't do it surrounded by role players. Personally, My hope is that he never wins one.

In addition, please don't pick my Chicago Bulls. I dislike James to the point that I would rather see Chicago stay on the same, stagnant course, then to win one with that egotystical maniac.

I must admit that it would be fun to see Lebron and Noah playing together given their recent history (verbal tiffs).

Lebron's best options in my opinion (being a Bulls fan) are NY, Cleveland, and NJ.

Can you provide examples of LeBron as an egotistical maniac? Are you upset he is leaving Cleveland? I have watched him since he entered the league, and he seems much less egotistical than the usual cast of superstars: Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, Tacy McGrady, Vince Carter, etc.

CDu
05-15-2010, 10:43 AM
The only way Lebron wins a title is with another superstar sharing the load. He simply can't do it surrounded by role players. Personally, My hope is that he never wins one.

That's true of pretty much every player. It's a rare team that can win the championship without at least two truly elite players.


In addition, please don't pick my Chicago Bulls. I dislike James to the point that I would rather see Chicago stay on the same, stagnant course, then to win one with that egotystical maniac.

Did you hate winning championships when we had that other egotistical maniac (Jordan) leading the team? I don't see James as any more egotistical than any other superstar basketball player.


Lebron's best options in my opinion (being a Bulls fan) are NY, Cleveland, and NJ.

I don't see NY as being any better a fit than Chicago other than that you hate James. NJ (with what is likely to be a top-3 pick along with Lopez and Harris) is closer, but I'd still say that Chicago (with Rose and Noah, as well as the potential to sign-and-trade for another useful guy with either Deng or Hinrich or both) is the best bet for James to win a championship in the near future. Taking James off the table, the Bulls roster is better than the Cavs roster, and it's younger and on the rise.

theAlaskanBear
05-15-2010, 10:46 AM
Couple of things:

1. If LeBron's elbow was okay, we are not having this conversation for a while, my guess until the finals, maybe while LeBron drinks from the cup. I think Ferry did brilliantly but for the coach, whom I have to think was LeBron's pick, or at least LeBron gave the okay.

2. Ferry did brilliantly because you cannot judge how the rest of the guys played when the core 75 percent (chosen arbitrarily to make the point) was out of commission but still playing; where do you go and what do you do and when. I do not think that you can blame Jamison for being off; heck, the ball was coming at odd times from odd directions with LeBron half the time simply in the way. Shaq did more than okay. So did the big bushy-haired kid and Mo was near exceptional. The supporting cast was great.

3. The coach was not, nor was it particularly his fault. Brown lacked the gravitas, the weight, the vision of the team game on offense, to bring LeBron into a more sophisticated, less ego-driven concept of how the team should play, should attack the basket, "Together," sharing all the responsibilities, as Doc repeatedly reminded his Celtics. Lebron tried to play that way the last game, and his first approximation was not half bad, but for his inability to carry his load. His turnovers killed the Cavs. They were a function of LeBron's inability to shoot even short jump shots or for the most part attack the rim with a righty finish. That left him confused and vulnerable when in a crowd in the paint, precisely the spots where he is usually most dangerous.

4. John Thompson has an interesting take. First, he said LeBron's best chance at a championship in the shortest amount of time is in Cleveland. Second, he says Brown is gone if LeBron stays unless LeBron affirmatively demands that Brown stays. I do not think that the latter is a possibility, if only because LeBron's team must see that LeBron needs the seasoning, the more mature vision of the game, if he is to reach where he is destined to go, and they surely know that that will take a coach with greater stature and probably a deeper sense of the offensive game than Brown possesses, which is no hit on Brown who surprised me by how well he had his team playing. But, he can not be left off the hook by allowing LeBron to occupy so much ball; it simply is not anywhere near the level of where the game can and needs to be played. Thompson also pointed out that the outskirts of Cleveland are knock down gorgeous and the issue about marketing is a nonissue. NY is great, but, really, how much is LeBron going to be able to enjoy it.

Thompson seems to think that it makes the most sense for LeBron to stay, I should think, although Thompson did not come out and say it, with a new coach, he even went so far as to hint that the rumors of Doc Rivers moving to Chicago to coach LeBron could easily shift to a different city.

AS Jonh Kerr said on Thompson's show, it should be quite interesting come July.

I just can't agree that LeBron would win a championship in Cleveland the fastest. They are an aging team without much flexibility. TO put a different cast of characters around him would require a blow-up of the team, essentially. John Thompson is a wise wise man, but I just dont see it. Plus, you are talking about a new coach who is going to need different personnel. The whole team will have to learn a new system.

A Doc Rivers/Chicago/LeBron situation would be nuts. Thats not a very grounded suggestion, but the fact that he even suggested it....damn.

I am quickly becoming apathetic to where LeBron plays, after being a pro-NYK guy. I think giving D'antoni the opportunity to build his system around the LeBron would be one of the grander basketball experiences. But ultimately, I think LeBron will succeed where-ever he goes, be it the Nets (another sentimental favorite of mine....Brooklyn/Erving connections), or Chicago or if he stays in Cleveland.

COYS
05-15-2010, 10:59 AM
I think giving D'antoni the opportunity to build his system around the LeBron would be one of the grander basketball experiences.

I'm a Hawks fan and fully aware that we have no chance at Lebron. With that being the case, as a basketball fan I want D'antoni to coach Lebron, too, if only to see if he can average a triple double for one season in that offense. D'antoni ran into some seriously bad luck in Phoenix (injury to Amare when the team was primed for a another shot at the title in 2005-2006 and extremely untimely suspensions in 2006-2007) that had a lot of the media believing that his offense could never win a title. I think if Lebron landed in NYC with the right pieces around him, D'antoni could mold an offensive juggernaut that would simply be extraordinary to watch and could definitely march to the NBA title. Whether or not the Knicks can craft such a team even if they get Lebron is certainly a question mark, but I admit that I'd like to see it happen.

CDu
05-15-2010, 12:11 PM
I just can't agree that LeBron would win a championship in Cleveland the fastest. They are an aging team without much flexibility. TO put a different cast of characters around him would require a blow-up of the team, essentially. John Thompson is a wise wise man, but I just dont see it. Plus, you are talking about a new coach who is going to need different personnel. The whole team will have to learn a new system.

I agree with you that I don't think Cleveland is the best short-term solution for winning a championship for James. The rest of that roster just has too many matchup limitations. Unless they get really creative really quickly with the roster, that team is likely to get worse, not better. They're already very near the cap for next year (without James), and re-signing James would put them over the cap for 2011-2012 as well. That means that any major changes to the roster would have to come via sign-and-trades. And they don't exactly have the most enticing pieces for a sign-and-trade. Given the matchup challenges they have when compared with the other elite teams, I don't know that they can win a championship with what they have now.

New York offers essentially a blank slate with a great coach. They have the money to get two superstars and can mix and match with Gallinari and Chandler as cheap secondary players. Putting LeBron and another star on that team makes them arguably better than Cleveland this year.

New Jersey offers similar "blank slate" benefits as New York, with the cap space to potentially land two super stars (especially with a sign-and-trade involving Harris). That team without Harris would have James, another star, Lopez, and some bigger guards (Williams, Douglas-Roberts) to complement the stars brought in. And they'll have a very high draft pick to bring in another potential upper-tier player to add to the mix.

Chicago has Rose and Noah, and could potentially get another upper-tier player via sign and trade with Deng or Hinrich. A Rose/James pairing gives them two elite players, and Noah is a terrific interior player. Moving Deng for an offensive PF would make the most sense. But again, I think Chicago team led by Rose, James, and Noah is better than Cleveland this year.

In terms of winning a title in the next couple of years, I think those teams have better odds. However, those teams are also competing with the money/years Cleveland can offer and the hometown advantage Cleveland offers. Those are not small considerations, either.

A-Tex Devil
05-15-2010, 01:36 PM
Ummmmm.... anyone see the Delonte West rumors? I think LeBron is gone, gone, gone... and Delonte West will be persona non grata in Cleveland.

And, frankly, I don't understand some of the LeBron hate in this thread. It might be he doesn't have the same a-hole streak that Kobe and Jordan did, and it might mean less championships, I guess. But he is GREAT forthe NBA, and anyone that thinks he is a selfish player simply haven't been watching him since high school (where he basically was so good, he got all his SMSV teammates D1 scholarships by makeing them look better than they were).

BD80
05-15-2010, 01:55 PM
Ummmmm.... anyone see the Delonte West rumors? I think LeBron is gone, gone, gone... and Delonte West will be persona non grata in Cleveland. ...

That Delonte got with LeBron's mama - not his baby momma - his momma?

I choose not to believe it. I wish I could get the mental image out of my head.

CDu
05-15-2010, 01:58 PM
Ummmmm.... anyone see the Delonte West rumors? I think LeBron is gone, gone, gone... and Delonte West will be persona non grata in Cleveland.

That's assuming there's some truth to those rumors, of course.


And, frankly, I don't understand some of the LeBron hate in this thread. It might be he doesn't have the same a-hole streak that Kobe and Jordan did, and it might mean less championships, I guess. But he is GREAT forthe NBA, and anyone that thinks he is a selfish player simply haven't been watching him since high school (where he basically was so good, he got all his SMSV teammates D1 scholarships by makeing them look better than they were).

I agree with this. James may or may not be an egotistical maniac (and he certainly wouldn't be the first or last sports superstar to have that trait), but selfishness on the court is one of the things he's least known for. The guy spent the first several years of his career hearing how he was too unselfish, to a fault.

ElSid
05-15-2010, 02:12 PM
if those rumors aren't true, then whoever started them is evil and should suffer horribly. if they are true, my gosh. what a turn of events. i give them about 0.5% chance of being real.

delonte west is a strange bird. frequent bouts with depression. the guy literally looks like he's going to break down at any moment and cry. i honestly don't think he'll have the fortitude to deal with people in cleveland after this, regardless of what is true and what happens.

as for lebron hatred...some of it is his connection to WWW, to Cal, his stated admiration and affection for Kentucky basketball. I think, overall, he's done about as well as anyone could hope for, from the standpoint of citizenship and maturity, given the pressures of the world on him. basketball wise, he's obviously amazing. his elbow prevented great things this year. but there is natural blow back against someone anointed "the king" without a ring.

darthur
05-15-2010, 02:30 PM
That's true of pretty much every player. It's a rare team that can win the championship without at least two truly elite players.

Yes. LeBron is the closest we've seen to this since I've been watching the NBA anyway (2000+). Almost every NBA championship-caliber team has had at least two bona fide stars. That Cleveland did as well as it did with just one great player is an amazing accomplishment by LeBron and co.


I don't see James as any more egotistical than any other superstar basketball player.

I'd say much less so. This is a guy who was roundly criticized a few years ago for drive and dishing on a final play rather than taking the shot himself. His teammates love him, his coaches love him... what more could you ask? The worst thing he has ever done sportsmanship-wise is walking off the court without shaking hands after one particularly bitter loss. And this time around, he did his best to make amends at the end of the Boston series.

If I were an NBA player, the only guy I'd rather play with would be Steve Nash.


Taking James off the table, the Bulls roster is better than the Cavs roster, and it's younger and on the rise.

Far better.

Starter
05-15-2010, 02:46 PM
I won't comment on the Delonte West thing; I interviewed him while he was at St. Joe's, definitely a weird dude, but pretty funny. I can't see this being true, but I guess anything is possible. But wow, what a breach in judgment if true. It's like a Stifler's mom thing except not whimsical in the least.

My LeBron's mother story: I went to see him play in Trenton, his first game after he came back from suspension for the throwback jerseys. (I wrote it up here (http://www.sportsangle.com/2010/02/rearview-mirror-lebron-mania-reaches-its-zenith-in-trenton/) if anyone wants to read about it, it was one of the more surreal sporting events I've been to) So I somehow maneuvered myself under one of the baskets, and I'm kneeling on the baseline. Gloria was in the stands directly to my right, and every time LeBron would come in and dunk or something, she'd start jumping up and down shrieking, "We going to the bank! We going to the bank!" It was hilarious. My friends and I still use that as a catch phrase.

BD80
05-15-2010, 03:26 PM
I won't comment on the Delonte West thing; I interviewed him while he was at St. Joe's, definitely a weird dude, but pretty funny. I can't see this being true, but I guess anything is possible. But wow, what a breach in judgment if true. It's like a Stifler's mom thing except not whimsical in the least.

My LeBron's mother story: I went to see him play in Trenton, his first game after he came back from suspension for the throwback jerseys. (I wrote it up here (http://www.sportsangle.com/2010/02/rearview-mirror-lebron-mania-reaches-its-zenith-in-trenton/) if anyone wants to read about it, it was one of the more surreal sporting events I've been to) So I somehow maneuvered myself under one of the baskets, and I'm kneeling on the baseline. Gloria was in the stands directly to my right, and every time LeBron would come in and dunk or something, she'd start jumping up and down shrieking, "We going to the bank! We going to the bank!" It was hilarious. My friends and I still use that as a catch phrase.

Oh come on. It opens up a whole new ad campaign starring LeBron:

Got MILF?


I really need to work on my self-restraint.

Starter
05-15-2010, 03:45 PM
LOL -- BD80, never work on your restraint.

Cockabeau
05-15-2010, 04:29 PM
lol.

Lebron's ego is out of control.

But really he has the world by the I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.....

hedevil
05-15-2010, 05:59 PM
AlaskanBear, Cdu

Obviously you all don't find comments such as, "Everybody wants to jump on me for having 3 bad games in seven years", as egotistical, but I do. And yes, I want him to go elsewhere because I'm a Bulls fan. If that's not enough to prove my "egotistical comment", then I leave it to one of you to show me what other player whines to have a video withheld of himself getting dunked on. PLEASE!!! Who doesn't get dunked on sometime? Sorry if I don't drink the Lebron cool-aid. As for Jordan, the guy won 6 rings. Cdu, you said that every team needs two stars to win one, I disagree. Perhaps you are referring to Pippen? Sorry, he's not a superstar, he's an above average role player. What did he do in Portland again? D-Wade, Dirk, Bosh, C Paul, etc... are stars in my opinion. You could put them on any team and they probably wouldn't have a let down in their personal game. Don't get me wrong, I was never a UNC Jordan supporter, but I give his accomplishments the credit they deserve (NBA wise), rather than hating him for where he went to college.

On top of that, how about Lebron being a bad rperesentative of the game.

Examples:
1. Dancing, showboating once you have blown a team away (the Bulls game). Sorry, that's not something I teach my young players to do. Respect your opponent, win or lose.
2. Walking off the court without shaking hands because you lost. Not congratulating your opponent and wishing them well going forward (Orlando series last year). What would K do if one of our guys did that? Seriously?
3. There is a link posted of Lebron disrespecting a towel boy in Chicago for heaven's sake. A TOWEL BOY? Come on.

These are my opinions. That's how I feel. I respect anybody who feels otherwise, but for myself, Lebron is not the guy I will be teaching my children or young players to mold their game around on the court. SORRY!

blazindw
05-15-2010, 06:59 PM
AlaskanBear, Cdu

Obviously you all don't find comments such as, "Everybody wants to jump on me for having 3 bad games in seven years", as egotistical, but I do. And yes, I want him to go elsewhere because I'm a Bulls fan. If that's not enough to prove my "egotistical comment", then I leave it to one of you to show me what other player whines to have a video withheld of himself getting dunked on. PLEASE!!! Who doesn't get dunked on sometime? Sorry if I don't drink the Lebron cool-aid. As for Jordan, the guy won 6 rings. Cdu, you said that every team needs two stars to win one, I disagree. Perhaps you are referring to Pippen? Sorry, he's not a superstar, he's an above average role player. What did he do in Portland again? D-Wade, Dirk, Bosh, C Paul, etc... are stars in my opinion. You could put them on any team and they probably wouldn't have a let down in their personal game. Don't get me wrong, I was never a UNC Jordan supporter, but I give his accomplishments the credit they deserve (NBA wise), rather than hating him for where he went to college.

On top of that, how about Lebron being a bad rperesentative of the game.

Examples:
1. Dancing, showboating once you have blown a team away (the Bulls game). Sorry, that's not something I teach my young players to do. Respect your opponent, win or lose.
2. Walking off the court without shaking hands because you lost. Not congratulating your opponent and wishing them well going forward (Orlando series last year). What would K do if one of our guys did that? Seriously?
3. There is a link posted of Lebron disrespecting a towel boy in Chicago for heaven's sake. A TOWEL BOY? Come on.

These are my opinions. That's how I feel. I respect anybody who feels otherwise, but for myself, Lebron is not the guy I will be teaching my children or young players to mold their game around on the court. SORRY!

In comparing LeBron to Jordan, you need to pop in a recording of Jordan's HOF speech...he brought the guy that beat him out on his HIGH SCHOOL varsity team, along with his high school coach, to chide him and remind everyone that he was in the HOF and that the guy who beat him out was nothing. He also ragged on several NBA players that he played against in his speech. As a Pistons fan, I can still say that Jordan is the greatest that ever played in the NBA, but for the definition of egotistical, you need not look further than him. LeBron doesn't even compare. He plays the game hard 99.9% of the time (Game 4-5-6 being the exception), he distributes the ball to his teammates, and makes everyone around him better. The NBA took a poll of its players earlier this year (sorry I don't have a link), and LeBron overwhelmingly was voted the player people most wanted to play with. You probably couldn't say the same thing about Jordan.

Pippen (again, with my Pistons glasses on) was undoubtedly a superstar, in my opinion, and worthy of the HOF. He was voted one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history...you can't make that list without being thought of as a superstar.

I'd rather see LeBron leave Cleveland and not go to the Bulls. I wouldn't mind him in NY or NJ/Brooklyn, and I honestly think that's where his heart will lead him. Will it turn out to be the right decision? Time will tell. But, I do not want him in Cleveland, Chicago, Boston or on the Lakers (Pistons bias).

Finally, I will just note that according to Cleveland radio (relayed through my the news in the city my parents live in north central Ohio), the Delonte West story is not just rumor and has some legs. They are using it to partially explain LeBron's completely "giving up" in Games 4, 5 and 6. If it does prove to be true, LeBron's gone, most of the Cavs will be gone, and I think they will be beyond horrible next season.

hedevil
05-15-2010, 07:50 PM
Just for the record, before anyone comes at me about MJ, I was called out about my opinions regarding Lebron, and my dislike for him. If anyone wants someone to defend MJ, look elsewhere. I don't like Lebron and have listed a few reasons as to why to support my argument. The only thing I said about MJ is that whatever you say about him, he has six rings to Lebron's 0. I would never excuse speeches like Jordan gave, nor Lebron's antics, but if one of them has the right to behave like he's accomplished something (NBA wise), it's Michael. Difference is, Michael's gone now. Lebron's still setting a bad example, IMO.

Big Pappa
05-15-2010, 11:37 PM
Lebron's ego is out of control.



Lebron's still setting a bad example, IMO.

I have to disagree that he is setting a bad example although that is certainly debatable. I think saying that his "ego is out of control" is just plain incorrect. I respect your opinion hedevil and the examples you gave, but to partially quote Lebron: if those are the only "egotistical" things he has done in 7 years he is doing much better than most of the superstars in the league.

darthur
05-16-2010, 12:40 AM
If that's not enough to prove my "egotistical comment", then I leave it to one of you to show me what other player whines to have a video withheld of himself getting dunked on. PLEASE!!! Who doesn't get dunked on sometime? Sorry if I don't drink the Lebron cool-aid.

Well I hadn't heard about this, but I looked around the links that gave any particulars at all always specifically said NIKE was the one confiscating this video. For example:

"After the videos were confiscated the story blew up on the net after a CBS cameraman described how he was treated by the Nike rep at the camp."

In the video, LeBron just goes back up the court no-big-deal. Unless you can point to LeBron himself caring, rather than the company trying to prop him up as a god to sell shoes, color me unimpressed.


As for Jordan, the guy won 6 rings. Cdu, you said that every team needs two stars to win one, I disagree. Perhaps you are referring to Pippen? Sorry, he's not a superstar, he's an above average role player. What did he do in Portland again?

That is absurd. In his prime, Pippen was averaging 20/7/7 with a solid shooting percentage. There is nobody on Cleveland who is even in the same ballpark as Scottie Pippen. I don't want to argue LeBron is better than MJ, but their supporting casts are night and day.


D-Wade, Dirk, Bosh, C Paul, etc... are stars in my opinion. You could put them on any team and they probably wouldn't have a let down in their personal game.

How about when they are in their mid-30s? Anyway, with the exception of Bosh, every one of these players has received serious MVP consideration in the last several years. There's a level somewhere between top-10 player in the league and role player, and Cleveland has 0 people in that range.


1. Dancing, showboating once you have blown a team away (the Bulls game). Sorry, that's not something I teach my young players to do. Respect your opponent, win or lose.

The other person in that exchange - one Joakim Noah - has a far, far bigger reputation for ungentlemanly conduct than LeBron has. I'm sure you don't like to think so since he's a Bull, but really, there's no comparison.

Anyway yeah, LeBron was screwing around on the sidelines in a blowout. It was pretty clear from the interviews and all that, that he wasn't actually trying to provoke anyone, he was just screwing around. Is that disrespectful? Sure, but more thoughtless than mean-spirited. I'm sure you would hold up Jason Williams as a positive role model, right? Watch the ending of the BC game in 2001 again, and tell me his ball-in-the-face stunt wasn't worse than LeBron practicing his dance moves on the sideline.


2. Walking off the court without shaking hands because you lost. Not congratulating your opponent and wishing them well going forward (Orlando series last year). What would K do if one of our guys did that? Seriously?

Tell him to be a better sport next time, which LeBron most certainly was. And for the record, K loves LeBron.


3. There is a link posted of Lebron disrespecting a towel boy in Chicago for heaven's sake. A TOWEL BOY? Come on.

You mean he just tossed his warmups aside, rather than directly giving them to a towel boy? Players always toss their warmups aside. That's just what they do. When a player is subbing into the game, he is thinking about who he's guarding, who he's replacing, etc., not where the towel boy is.

hedevil
05-16-2010, 01:35 AM
I've made it clear that I am not going to defend Jordan simply because he is retired, nor is he the focus of my attention in this thread. I'm a BULLS fan, not a Jordan fan. Of course I cheered for him at the time. The only thing I will say in his defense (Jordan's) is that Pippen thrived mightly due to Jordan's presence on the court. BOTTOM LINE!

As to the supporting cast being day and night, I agree with you. Guess what else is day and night? The competition in the league.

As to Noah, I didn't like him at Florida, and I like him even less now. My loyalty to a team doesn't automatically mean that I like/respect the players on it. Some people are that way. I'm not. If Lebron chooses Chicago, I would still root for the Bulls, but my feelings for him wouldn't change an ounce.

I think he brings a street ball attitude (showboating) to the game, which is how I used to play, however, I believe NBA players should set examples for the youth that are watching. I just don't see him as a positive advocate of the sport.

For the record, coach K knows Lebron on a personal level. The young kids watching, don't.

As for the towel thing, I'll let people judge that as they wish. I don't think it's by accident that he threw his clothes on the floor (three seperate times), looking directly at the kid, by accident. I guess if someone did that to you or someone you care for you would take it with a grain of salt, huh?

Bottom line for me is, no matter what anyone says about the guy, my mind won't change until he matures a little. I respect that others like the dude or whatnot, I'm just not in that boat. I don't like it (showboating, disrespect)from UNC players or NBA players just the same. What I do know is that if UNC landed/lands a kid who showboats like Lebron does, they wouldn't get the same respect that some people are giving James on this thread. I guess only time will tell.

CDu
05-16-2010, 09:15 AM
Just for the record, before anyone comes at me about MJ, I was called out about my opinions regarding Lebron, and my dislike for him. If anyone wants someone to defend MJ, look elsewhere. I don't like Lebron and have listed a few reasons as to why to support my argument. The only thing I said about MJ is that whatever you say about him, he has six rings to Lebron's 0. I would never excuse speeches like Jordan gave, nor Lebron's antics, but if one of them has the right to behave like he's accomplished something (NBA wise), it's Michael. Difference is, Michael's gone now. Lebron's still setting a bad example, IMO.

You said you're a Bulls fan. As am I. My point was to see if you cheered for Jordan and the Bulls during their title runs. If you did, then I find it hypocritical to call out James for being egotistical and to say you don't want him to play for the Bulls. Jordan was way more egotistical. And he was more egotistical even before he'd ever won an NBA championship, so your argument that "he has six rings" is irrelevant because he was exactly in the same spot as James as of 1989 and 1990. So unless you hated cheering for the Bulls when Jordan was there, it seems like cherry-picking to say you don't want James to come to the Bulls.

Obviously everyone's entitled to their own opinion. It just seems inconsistent.

toooskies
05-17-2010, 11:52 AM
Don't underrate Scottie Pippen. In addition to averaging 20/7/6 regularly (beating Cavs second-banana handily in every category), he was also a first-team NBA defense from '92-'99, and second-team in '91 and '00. He finished third in the league in MVP voting when Jordan was sitting out. He was named top 50 all-time NBA at the 50 year anniversary in '96-'97-- and this was shortly after everyone had seen him lead the team for a year and a half while Jordan was out.

Horace Grant was a 2nd-teamer who would be a clear upgrade offensively and defensively from Varejao (for the first three championships); Dennis Rodman averaged 15 boards a game while in Chicago and was on the first team all-defense in '96.

The modern-day equivalent to a Jordan-Pippen-Grant or Jordan-Pippen-Rodman would be if the Cavs could acquire Dwight Howard for nothing.

theAlaskanBear
05-23-2010, 09:38 AM
To get back to LeBron and the free-agent class of 2010:

I think that the post-season implosion of the Orlando Magic could potentially shake up the off-season signings. Until Dwight Howard develops into an unstoppable offensive force, the Magic cant win in the postseason posting a bunch of three point shooters. Wilbon had it absolutely right in his postgame analysis.

The Celtics basically called Orlando's bluff that Howard was some kind of dominant offensive force and took away the REAL Orlando threat: 3-pt shooting. Doc Rivers deserves a lot of credit, he ran circles around SVG and the Magic team. Man, if Austin is as smart...;)

This is, I believe, a direct result of the Carter trade. Swapping out Turkoglu for Carter made them less dynamic and more one-dimensional. Maybe I am just overly fond of Turkoglu because of my Turkish roommate, but he was a very versatile player and a good rebounder and passer. Take the Conference Finals against Cleveland last year, and the playoffs in general: Turkoglu was essentially the distributor for that team. He had a 14 assist game, an 8 and a 7 seven assist game, plus he rebounded well, having one game where he hit 10rbs. Jameer is not a traditional PG, he doesnt have great court vision or do a great job facilitating others, but is more of a scorer. Turkoglu with the Magic averaged just an assist less than Jameer when he was with the team. Hedo might have been a disappointment in Toronto, but he is ideal for the Magic system.

Two things the Magic can do this offseason is look for a more traditional PF, someone to help free up and help Howard score down low, and look for a distributing PG.

Cockabeau
05-23-2010, 09:59 AM
Another thing they can do is get rid of headcases carter and Nelson

CDu
05-23-2010, 11:37 AM
To get back to LeBron and the free-agent class of 2010:

I think that the post-season implosion of the Orlando Magic could potentially shake up the off-season signings. Until Dwight Howard develops into an unstoppable offensive force, the Magic cant win in the postseason posting a bunch of three point shooters. Wilbon had it absolutely right in his postgame analysis.

The Celtics basically called Orlando's bluff that Howard was some kind of dominant offensive force and took away the REAL Orlando threat: 3-pt shooting. Doc Rivers deserves a lot of credit, he ran circles around SVG and the Magic team. Man, if Austin is as smart...;)

This is, I believe, a direct result of the Carter trade. Swapping out Turkoglu for Carter made them less dynamic and more one-dimensional. Maybe I am just overly fond of Turkoglu because of my Turkish roommate, but he was a very versatile player and a good rebounder and passer. Take the Conference Finals against Cleveland last year, and the playoffs in general: Turkoglu was essentially the distributor for that team. He had a 14 assist game, an 8 and a 7 seven assist game, plus he rebounded well, having one game where he hit 10rbs. Jameer is not a traditional PG, he doesnt have great court vision or do a great job facilitating others, but is more of a scorer. Turkoglu with the Magic averaged just an assist less than Jameer when he was with the team. Hedo might have been a disappointment in Toronto, but he is ideal for the Magic system.

Two things the Magic can do this offseason is look for a more traditional PF, someone to help free up and help Howard score down low, and look for a distributing PG.

I agree that Carter this year is not as good a fit as Turkoglu last year. But you're omitting a couple of other major differences between this year and last year. Boston has Garnett back and they have Wallace, which completely changes the dynamics of that frontcourt. Those two guys are tall enough to challenge Lewis's shot on the perimeter (especially when Lewis decides not to drive), but Lewis cannot defend them within 15 feet. Last year, the Celtics didn't have a matchup for Lewis, and they didn't have a guy at the 4 that could punish Lewis either. And they didn't have the depth to foul Howard whenever necessary.

The other big difference is that Rondo is a much better player this year than last year. Last year, he was dominant at times, but very inconsistent. This year, he's turned into one of the top PG in the league. Nelson is no match for Rondo, and that's bad news because Nelson was a big part of their dominance late in the season.

So I'm not sure Turkoglu makes a difference in the outcome of this series. For one thing, it's unclear if he'd have remained productive as he took a big dropoff this year. And for another, he doesn't address two of the biggest deficiencies for this team in the matchup with the Celtics.

GoingFor#5
05-24-2010, 11:10 AM
Coach K rumors heating up with Mike Brown out. This is the most enticing NBA possibility Coach K has had so we shall see.

airowe
05-24-2010, 11:14 AM
Coach K rumors heating up with Mike Brown out. This is the most enticing NBA possibility Coach K has had so we shall see.

This is not more enticing than coaching the Lakers.

Coach K isn't going anywhere.

ElSid
05-24-2010, 11:15 AM
Coach K rumors heating up with Mike Brown out. This is the most enticing NBA possibility Coach K has had so we shall see.

This is clearly why Felix won't be enrolling at Duke. He knows K is going to Cleveland.

Can Coach K put these guys on the federal DO NOT CALL list? It's getting old. I think coaching the Lakers was his best option and he turned it down. He's said he won't go. I think he's missed his window.

GoingFor#5
05-24-2010, 11:37 AM
This is not more enticing than coaching the Lakers.

Coach K isn't going anywhere.

Subjective, but I disagree. Lakers in '04 were a very old team with no chemistry coming off a schlacking the the Finals. Cavs, also coming off a schlacking, but appear to be very close. It took the Lakers 5 years plus getting Gasol to get there. Cavs could do it in a year or 2 without serious personnel changes.

Cavs also have the Ferry connection and Coach K has coached Lebron. I don't think K had coached Kobe at all yet in '04.

I hope K stays, think he probably will, but I think he will consider this one as he did the Lakers.

Acymetric
05-24-2010, 03:37 PM
Subjective, but I disagree. Lakers in '04 were a very old team with no chemistry coming off a schlacking the the Finals. Cavs, also coming off a schlacking, but appear to be very close. It took the Lakers 5 years plus getting Gasol to get there. Cavs could do it in a year or 2 without serious personnel changes.

Cavs also have the Ferry connection and Coach K has coached Lebron. I don't think K had coached Kobe at all yet in '04.

I hope K stays, think he probably will, but I think he will consider this one as he did the Lakers.

You wouldn't consider anyone on the Cavs "aging?"

This isn't even worth talking about, but if it was, he wouldn't do this without 100% guarantee that Lebron stays. I don't think they can even give 20% right now.

hedevil
05-24-2010, 04:03 PM
Coack K is not going to pass on a chance to take Duke to another back to back. This Duke team has more talent than he's had for years.

Kyrie committed himself to Duke mainly because of coack K. Kyle and Nolan have committed themselves to coming back to Duke for this moment.

I think it's pretty safe to say that coach K will do the same for them.

roywhite
05-24-2010, 05:01 PM
How many times does Coach K need to unequivocally deny interest in these jobs before some people believe him? Rick Bucher, so-called ESPN insider was talking about the Cavs job and the possibility of Coach K earlier today, but this came out very recently:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2010/05/coach-k-no-interest-in-cavs-job/1


Mike Krzyzewski is getting very good at taking his name out of the hat.

Through a spokesperson, the Duke coach told ESPN.com's Andy Katz he's not interested in the now-available Cleveland Cavaliers job.

CDu
05-24-2010, 08:13 PM
Subjective, but I disagree. Lakers in '04 were a very old team with no chemistry coming off a schlacking the the Finals. Cavs, also coming off a schlacking, but appear to be very close. It took the Lakers 5 years plus getting Gasol to get there. Cavs could do it in a year or 2 without serious personnel changes.

I have to disagree here. For one thing, the Cavs are also an aging team, and I would definitely disagree with the statement that the Cavs appear to be very close to a title. They have now shown, in back to back seasons, some severe matchup problems that got them eliminated before even reaching the Finals (where they'd have been torched by the Lakers).

This team isn't really much different than that 2004 Lakers team - certainly not in a better situation (especially if LeBron leaves).


I hope K stays, think he probably will, but I think he will consider this one as he did the Lakers.

I believe that Coach K has now said he's not interested in the Cavs job.

Big Pappa
05-28-2010, 04:35 PM
Well guys I'm back from an amazing wedding and honeymoon. Thanks for all the well-wishes and for holding it down while I was gone. I did pick up a good piece of information regarding the quote below:


That Delonte got with LeBron's mama - not his baby momma - his momma?

I choose not to believe it. I wish I could get the mental image out of my head.

I am very close friends with another professional athlete in Cleveland. According to him, Lebron was informed of Delonte's promiscuity with his mother during half-time of game three. Lebron confronted Delonte who readily admitted to sleeping with his mom. The two had to be separated by Shaq and Coach Brown.

Following the altercation, Lebron told Delonte he didn't want him to play in the second half. Before the next game Lebron approached Coach Brown and asked that Delonte not suit up for game 4 and wear street clothes behind the bench. Brown refused, Delonte played, and the Cavs lost the next three games consecutively to lose the series.

This caused a rift between not only Lebron and Delonte but between (an already shaky relationship of) Lebron and Brown. My source told me that this incident was a major factor in the firing of Brown because Lebron said that he wouldn't stay if Brown stayed. This would seem to be an indication that Lebron is now leaning toward Cleveland upon the firing of Brown but you can never tell. I would also expect Delonte to leave the team in one way or another.

superdave
05-28-2010, 04:56 PM
Well guys I'm back from an amazing wedding and honeymoon. Thanks for all the well-wishes and for holding it down while I was gone. I did pick up a good piece of information regarding the quote below:



I am very close friends with another professional athlete in Cleveland. According to him, Lebron was informed of Delonte's promiscuity with his mother during half-time of game three. Lebron confronted Delonte who readily admitted to sleeping with his mom. The two had to be separated by Shaq and Coach Brown.

Following the altercation, Lebron told Delonte he didn't want him to play in the second half. Before the next game Lebron approached Coach Brown and asked that Delonte not suit up for game 4 and wear street clothes behind the bench. Brown refused, Delonte played, and the Cavs lost the next three games consecutively to lose the series.

This caused a rift between not only Lebron and Delonte but between (an already shaky relationship of) Lebron and Brown. My source told me that this incident was a major factor in the firing of Brown because Lebron said that he wouldn't stay if Brown stayed. This would seem to be an indication that Lebron is now leaning toward Cleveland upon the firing of Brown but you can never tell. I would also expect Delonte to leave the team in one way or another.

All I have to say is WOW! That is a heck of a story and it makes a whole heckuva lot of sense too.

DevilHorns
05-28-2010, 04:58 PM
Well guys I'm back from an amazing wedding and honeymoon. Thanks for all the well-wishes and for holding it down while I was gone. I did pick up a good piece of information regarding the quote below:



I am very close friends with another professional athlete in Cleveland. According to him, Lebron was informed of Delonte's promiscuity with his mother during half-time of game three. Lebron confronted Delonte who readily admitted to sleeping with his mom. The two had to be separated by Shaq and Coach Brown.

Following the altercation, Lebron told Delonte he didn't want him to play in the second half. Before the next game Lebron approached Coach Brown and asked that Delonte not suit up for game 4 and wear street clothes behind the bench. Brown refused, Delonte played, and the Cavs lost the next three games consecutively to lose the series.

This caused a rift between not only Lebron and Delonte but between (an already shaky relationship of) Lebron and Brown. My source told me that this incident was a major factor in the firing of Brown because Lebron said that he wouldn't stay if Brown stayed. This would seem to be an indication that Lebron is now leaning toward Cleveland upon the firing of Brown but you can never tell. I would also expect Delonte to leave the team in one way or another.

Is this seriously true? This is ridiculous. I am only half-buying this story if Lebron stays in Cleveland and Delonte is gone. There has to be something more in the media leaking out... perhaps an interview of Delonte or Lebrons mom?....

Billy Dat
05-28-2010, 08:45 PM
BigPappa - thank you for this insight. This is the story that won't go away. As crazy as it sounds, it makes a lot of sense as to why the Cavs imploded the way they did. If it is true, no one is talking, except crazy Calvin Murphy who swears it's true.

Big Pappa
05-28-2010, 10:04 PM
BigPappa - thank you for this insight. This is the story that won't go away. As crazy as it sounds, it makes a lot of sense as to why the Cavs imploded the way they did. If it is true, no one is talking, except crazy Calvin Murphy who swears it's true.

No problem. I wish I could tell you who my source was, but I guess you guys have to take my word for it. Before I heard this story from my friend I thought Lebron was gone for sure, now I think Cleveland is his number 1 option again.

Indoor66
05-29-2010, 08:52 AM
No problem. I wish I could tell you who my source was, but I guess you guys have to take my word for it. Before I heard this story from my friend I thought Lebron was gone for sure, now I think Cleveland is his number 1 option again.

Is Bron Bron denying his mother happiness? Inquiring minds want to know.

Wildling
06-02-2010, 12:30 PM
I'm hearing the same thing about Lebron's Mom and West.

First quote is a source in the Cleveland organization. And then a youtube audio clip of Calvin Murphy confirming these rumors too. This story is gaining legs, and I'm not sure how much longer sportscenter can go without breaking the story.


Lebron and Gloria James were supposed to have dinner after game three.
Jay-Z and Beyonce showed up at the game, and after Lebron's big
performance, they all went out on the town leaving Gloria at the team
hotel. Delonte West doesn't go out partying with the team because of his
pending legal troubles (a DUI or public intox or drunken dissorderly would
look really bad). Delonte and Gloria went and had dinner at the hotel, had
drinks with dinner, and continued drinking at the bar into the night. Drunk
they went back to Gloria's room and bumped uglies.
Lebron returned to the hotel around 3:30 in the morning and knocked on his
mom's door with some left-overs and to check if she was alright. Delonte
opened the door in a towel.
Not only did James see this, so to did Gibson, O'Neal, and Williams.
Immediately the news spread to the team and the locker room because very
tense and uncomfortable.
James was pissed about both the Delonte incident and the way his teammates
"disrespected" him by letting the story outside of the family, and
basically told them that if they wanted to win, they were on their own to
win.
After game 5, James realized that dogging it would hurt his image this
summer and that Wade might overshadow his star, especially as Chicago was
clamoring for Wade and the Knicks have eyes for Bosh. So he tried, but the
team chemistry had been lost and his individual performance was simply not
enough to overcome Boston.
James blamed the Cavs for the situation occuring. Had the West situation
been handled when his arrest occurred, or if the Cavs hadn't balked at the
Phoenix deal at the deadline (which included West), then Delonte wouldn't
have been there to defile Gloria.
Now he wants control or he wants out, and Gilbert is left wondering whether
he should turn the whole franchise over to a 25 year old powder-keg who
quit on his team, or if he should continue with GM of the year Danny Ferry.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izpuDwusAfM

CrazieDUMB
06-02-2010, 12:58 PM
I've been following this for a while, and I just can't buy it. It's so juicy it makes for perfect gossip, but I still find it really really hard to believe. The problem is that even if it is true, I seriously doubt that anyone would come forward on it.

BigPappa - out your source! Freedom of information act! Inquiring minds must know!

Deadspin on the issue:
http://deadspin.com/5544653/anatomy-of-a-rumor-how-the-gloria-jamesdelonte-west-sex-story-went-viral

superdave
06-02-2010, 01:57 PM
A friend of mine who knows Danny Green who was there said no halftime altercation happened. My guess is that if the story is true, more will come out.

Oh yeah, if you look at Delonte's MPG over the Celtics series, it really drops off.

Wildling
06-02-2010, 03:33 PM
Wether an altercation occurred before,during or after the incident I have no idea. Or if an altercation happend at all between Lebron and Delonte. The guy who works for Clevelands organization didn't specify that part.

What I do know is one common rumor and one fact that won't go away. The rumor being Delonte West had some relations with Lebron's mom. And following that event Lebron James' next game was the worst performance of his playoff career by a landslide being the cold hard fact.

It was clear during game 4 his head was not into the game at all. Now I can understand why he looked like a zombie out on the court.

Dogging a game on purpose? Eh, I don't buy that. But not having any motivation after what just happend the night before? Yeah, I can see where someones head wouldn't be in the game.

Big Pappa
06-02-2010, 04:05 PM
Wether an altercation occurred before,during or after the incident I have no idea. Or if an altercation happend at all between Lebron and Delonte. The guy who works for Clevelands organization didn't specify that part.

What I do know is one common rumor and one fact that won't go away. The rumor being Delonte West had some relations with Lebron's mom. And following that event Lebron James' next game was the worst performance of his playoff career by a landslide being the cold hard fact.

It was clear during game 4 his head was not into the game at all. Now I can understand why he looked like a zombie out on the court.

Dogging a game on purpose? Eh, I don't buy that. But not having any motivation after what just happend the night before? Yeah, I can see where someones head wouldn't be in the game.

I agree about Lebron's performance in game 4, you can't argue with his stats or the way he looked so disconnected on the floor. It's also hard to argue with West's mpg as well as the firing of Mike Brown. You don't win COY last year and have the best record in the NBA two years in a row and get fired unless Lebron wants you gone. All I can say is that my source is a pro athlete in Cleveland who is close with members of the basketball team and is a very close friend of mine. He said that an altercation occurred, not a fist-fight, but def some shoving and cussing. I think the story will break publicly very, very soon.

Big Pappa
06-02-2010, 04:13 PM
BigPappa - out your source! Freedom of information act! Inquiring minds must know!


Lol I would if I was a journalistand he wasn't such a good friend.

arydolphin
06-04-2010, 01:19 PM
Yahoo Sports is reporting that Ferry will resign from his position as GM of the Cavs: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-ferrycavaliers060410

JasonEvans
06-04-2010, 01:27 PM
Yahoo Sports is reporting that Ferry will resign from his position as GM of the Cavs: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-ferrycavaliers060410

They are gonna make Lebron the GM ;)

-Jason

ElSid
06-04-2010, 01:33 PM
Yahoo Sports is reporting that Ferry will resign from his position as GM of the Cavs: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-ferrycavaliers060410

I guess I picked the title of this thread correctly...at least half way, so far.

jimsumner
06-04-2010, 02:08 PM
ESPN is also reporting the Ferry resignation. A pity.

theAlaskanBear
06-04-2010, 02:45 PM
Yes, it is official. Headline on the NBA.com

cspan37421
06-04-2010, 03:01 PM
Imagine if Cleveland lost LeBron now. No Mike Brown, no Danny Ferry, no LeBron - no chance.

The inmates are running the asylum. You really don't want to turn over management decisions to a player - ever - especially one who seems, at times, eager to leave you in 4 weeks. Imagine if he insists they hire Isiah Thomas as coach - then he bolts to the Bulls!

I hope Ferry lands a good job; he's done what he can there and, frankly, if LBJ is calling the shots now, he might as well find another place to work.

dball
06-04-2010, 03:14 PM
Looks as if Danny has resigned in Cleveland.

dball
06-04-2010, 03:15 PM
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/06/danny_ferry_resigns_at_gm_of_c.html

superdave
06-04-2010, 04:27 PM
To be fair to the Cleveland organization, Ferry brought in no current all-stars to play alongside LBJ (except maybe Mo Williams was a reserve one year). He made rolls of the dice with Shaq and Jamison that did not get them over the hump and his best draft picks have been Hickson and Boobie Gibson. I would not say that's a strong resume.

The good news is the Cavs cap is not a complete mess like so many other GMs have done (Isiah) so if LBJ does re-sign, Cleveland will have options going forward. Ferry was not bad by NBA GM standards but he was not in the elite 4-5 guys who have been patient and made prudent moves.

COYS
06-04-2010, 04:33 PM
I'm hearing the same thing about Lebron's Mom and West.

First quote is a source in the Cleveland organization. And then a youtube audio clip of Calvin Murphy confirming these rumors too. This story is gaining legs, and I'm not sure how much longer sportscenter can go without breaking the story.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izpuDwusAfM

Whether or not this story is true, I don't think it justifies Lebron's behavior if the rumors about him quitting on the team are true. Players have overcome deaths in the family, gravely sick children, and other truly terrible events to play great games. I mean, Lebron might be POed that Delonte crossed a line, but at the same time, the two are adults. Blaming the Cavs as an organization for what happened is even more ridiculous. I can understand why the organization might think Brown is a limited coach and seek other options for the job. However, it seems like it will be almost impossible to lure Lebron back with no coach and GM. Similarly, no GM or coach wants that job if Lebron isn't back. On the other hand, a GM might be wary of a Lebron-led Cavs team if the owners are going to cater to Lebron's whims. It's just a really weird situation.

theAlaskanBear
06-04-2010, 04:48 PM
With Mike Brown being fired, I didn't hold out much hope for Ferry. I will always support a Dukie, but Ferry is as accountable for the team as Mike Brown is.

Bottom line is, if LeBron isn't back, Cleveland is the worst team in the league with no hope of getting better next year. the inability to get ONE star via trade or signing that is LeBrons AGE or build a core around him that can grow is ultimately doomed him.

The Cavs are now an old team (Zydrunas, SHaq, Jamison, etc) with very little cost-effective value (JJ Hickson).

TheBrianZoubekExperience
06-04-2010, 05:39 PM
To be fair to the Cleveland organization, Ferry brought in no current all-stars to play alongside LBJ (except maybe Mo Williams was a reserve one year). He made rolls of the dice with Shaq and Jamison that did not get them over the hump and his best draft picks have been Hickson and Boobie Gibson. I would not say that's a strong resume.

The good news is the Cavs cap is not a complete mess like so many other GMs have done (Isiah) so if LBJ does re-sign, Cleveland will have options going forward. Ferry was not bad by NBA GM standards but he was not in the elite 4-5 guys who have been patient and made prudent moves.

While I agree that Ferry wasn't the best GM, it is important to note that we don't know exactly how much pressure was put on him by ownership and/or Lebron to put a team around that could win now. In retrospect, yeah, they could have better positioned themselves for this day by building a younger team but we don't know how much pressure they had to win when they already had one of the top few players in the game and were a contender for the title for the last few years.

Ferry's draft record isn't that bad. He didn't hit any home runs but he also didn't really have any high picks. In most drafts, once you get to the range he was picking its a bit of a crap shoot. Lebron was so good so quickly that the team never really had a few years to stay at the bottom and pick a few talented young players to build for the future. Luke Jackson was certainly a top ten bust but that was before Ferry arrived.

An aside about prudent GMs:

As for other prudent GMs I do agree there are GMs like Sam Presti that have done a better job of building a young nucleus. But even Presti - who is often cited as a one of the top GMs - was in part able to do what he's done because of several advantages. He got to pick second in a 2 player draft in which the consensus (haven't heard any GM on record other than Ainge say they would have taken Durant over Oden) number 2 pick turned out to be a star. It was the right pick at number 2 but any GM would have picked Durant second. It was smart to trade Ray Allen for the 2007 5 pick but for a top five pick Jeff Green hasn't exactly set the NBA on fire. He could still be a very good player but hes not right now. Westbrook was a great pick and Harden seems like he will be solid but again Presti has had the luxury of have several very high picks. Presti does deserve credit for making some very shrewd moves to pick up additional picks but again he had the luxury of not having much pressure to win now. Ferry didn't have the luxury of picking 4th and 3rd in consecutive drafts since Lebron was putting them in the playoffs each year. There hasn't been a lot of pressure on Presti to win now since ownership and the fans in OKC are just happy to have an NBA team but that might change over the next few years now that Durant has become a top player and the team has tasted the playoffs. The team looks really promising but it still got bounced in the first round. I think Presti has done a great job but he was dealt pretty good cards. If OKC doesn't make the leap from "promising young team" to contender I think it will be interesting to see how he is viewed and if he starts making moves like Ferry did.

toooskies
06-04-2010, 05:47 PM
I love the Delonte-Gloria rumor, it's deliciously gossippy. If it were really true, though, we'll be seeing Delonte get kicked to the curb before Lebron signs a contract.

gumbomoop
06-04-2010, 06:07 PM
I mean, Lebron might be POed that Delonte crossed a line, but at the same time, the two are adults.... It's just a really weird situation.

Reminiscent of that mini-plot-line in "The Office," when Pam gets all totally weirded out when she learns Michael is dating her mom. Yuuuccckkkkk! Then the kicker when Michael dumps the mom when he learns she's a bit older than he thought.

I trust that LBJ will not be as befuddled as Pam, if and when Delonte and Gloria break up.

Devilsfan
06-05-2010, 11:12 AM
Amazing that this thread started well before Cleveland leaked Ferry's resigning (firing).

sagegrouse
06-05-2010, 02:38 PM
Amazing that this thread started well before Cleveland leaked Ferry's resigning (firing).

The Cleveland Plain Dealer column by Terry Pluto that is linked on the Front Page strongly suggests that Ferry chose not to return rather than sign an extension. He didn't see eye-to-eye with the owner, Dan Gilbert, especially in regards to replacing Coach Mike Brown.

More will come out later, I suppose. Ferry plainly doesn't need the money.

sagegrouse

theAlaskanBear
06-05-2010, 02:46 PM
The Cleveland Plain Dealer column by Terry Pluto that is linked on the Front Page strongly suggests that Ferry chose not to return rather than sign an extension. He didn't see eye-to-eye with the owner, Dan Gilbert, especially in regards to replacing Coach Mike Brown.

More will come out later, I suppose. Ferry plainly doesn't need the money.

sagegrouse

And I would bet Ferry can find a spot in another organization without too much trouble.

cspan37421
06-05-2010, 05:18 PM
And I would bet Ferry can find a spot in another organization without too much trouble.

It's funny that one can read your comment two ways. The spot could be found without much trouble, or he could find employment with an organization that doesn't have too much trouble.

You probably meant the former, but I suspect that LeBron will leave anyway and the Cavs will be in a heap of trouble. I'm not convinced they'll be as good as they have been if he stays anyway. Remember how well things went when MJ called the shots in Washington.

Big Pappa
06-05-2010, 08:45 PM
I'm not convinced they'll be as good as they have been if he stays anyway. Remember how well things went when MJ called the shots in Washington.

This is true, but the situations are totally different. Lebron is 25 and in the prime of his career. When Jordan got to Washington he was 38 and had already retired twice.

IMO Lebron is more suited to call his own shots than MJ and I say that simply because MJ was so incredibly motivated to show everyone up around him that he didn't often do what was best for the organization as a whole. If you don't know what I'm talking about just watch his HOF speech (http://www.nba.com/video/channels/hall_of_fame/2009/09/11/nba_20090911_hof_jordan_speech.nba/).

cspan37421
06-07-2010, 12:05 AM
This is true, but the situations are totally different. Lebron is 25 and in the prime of his career. When Jordan got to Washington he was 38 and had already retired twice.


True, but I was referring to management moves, not hoops skill. There's an echo of my sentiments here:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-lebroninfluence060510

"Gilbert had become the biggest enabler of LeBron James and his inner circle, and that only promises to get worse. Ferry never loved the players’ pregame skits, the hiring of James’ buddies, the associates’ riding on the team plane, but Gilbert seldom said no to anything. He behaved like the permissive parent who believed his kid would love him more if he spoiled him rotten. "

This sounds like a recipe for disaster. But it may have already occurred for Cleveland; would Chicago also allow this sort of thing?

lotusland
06-07-2010, 04:29 AM
True, but I was referring to management moves, not hoops skill. There's an echo of my sentiments here:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-lebroninfluence060510

"Gilbert had become the biggest enabler of LeBron James and his inner circle, and that only promises to get worse. Ferry never loved the players’ pregame skits, the hiring of James’ buddies, the associates’ riding on the team plane, but Gilbert seldom said no to anything. He behaved like the permissive parent who believed his kid would love him more if he spoiled him rotten. "

This sounds like a recipe for disaster. But it may have already occurred for Cleveland; would Chicago also allow this sort of thing?

Most interesting part IMO: "Just know this: It wasn’t until Tom Thibodeau – who swore he never again wanted an agent – signed with William Wesley’s CAA that the Chicago Bulls grew serious about the coach’s candidacy...

but Gilbert, a staunch Michigan State man, is determined to hire away Tom Izzo. Unless James tells him he wants John Calipari, and then they’ll hire John Calipari"
So WWW could actually have coaches hired in both Chicago and Cleveland in an attempt to lure Lebron both places???

CrazieDUMB
06-07-2010, 08:55 AM
Cavs have offered Tom Izzo

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5259123

Would be disasterous for a Mich St team poised to take a shot at the title. I think this is just like the K rumors - Izzo has said he's not leaving until he wins another championship.

CDu
06-07-2010, 09:55 AM
So WWW could actually have coaches hired in both Chicago and Cleveland in an attempt to lure Lebron both places???

Wesley is merely using James as a sales pitch for all of his clients. He (or at least his team) also represents Brian Shaw. Not surprisingly, we started hearing rumors that James is interested in running the triangle (a system Shaw has a LOT of experience with at LA).

Ultimately, Wesley will leverage his affiliation with James to get as many of his coaches hired to big deals as possible. After that, James will simply sign with whomever he feels gives him the best combination of money, happiness, and competitiveness. It's possible that that team will have also hired one of Wesley's guys. But I don't think that's a requirement.

lotusland
06-07-2010, 12:00 PM
Wesley is merely using James as a sales pitch for all of his clients. He (or at least his team) also represents Brian Shaw. Not surprisingly, we started hearing rumors that James is interested in running the triangle (a system Shaw has a LOT of experience with at LA).

Ultimately, Wesley will leverage his affiliation with James to get as many of his coaches hired to big deals as possible. After that, James will simply sign with whomever he feels gives him the best combination of money, happiness, and competitiveness. It's possible that that team will have also hired one of Wesley's guys. But I don't think that's a requirement.

And both Clevelnd and Chicago might be left with coaches that they otherwise would not have considered hiring. Sounds like Cleveland is going after Izzo first though

dukemsu
06-07-2010, 12:55 PM
Cavs have offered Tom Izzo

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5259123

Would be disasterous for a Mich St team poised to take a shot at the title. I think this is just like the K rumors - Izzo has said he's not leaving until he wins another championship.

Very difficult to say. The chance to coach James may be enough to lure Izzo.

Lot of moving pieces here. MSU AD confirmed that Cleveland is interested. Denied that an offer has been made.

I would still think that Izzo remains in East Lansing. But I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

dukemsu

CDu
06-07-2010, 02:48 PM
And both Clevelnd and Chicago might be left with coaches that they otherwise would not have considered hiring. Sounds like Cleveland is going after Izzo first though

Well, I don't know if the bolded part is really true. Chicago has typically marched to the beat of their own drummer with regard to coaching hires. And Thibodeau has long been considered on the list of top potential new hires for head coaches out of the assistant ranks. So I don't think it's necessarily fair to assume that they wouldn't have considered hiring Thibodeau without the Wesley connection.

Now, had they suddenly gone and hired Brian Shaw (who has not had years of press as a "next head coach" option), I'd definitely agree with this.

And as you note, Cleveland appears to be looking outside the Wesley realm at the moment.