Lost: The Candidate

[A-Tex Devil]

Carnage! And any ambiguity about Smokey/Flocke is out the window.

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

They Killed Sun and Jin, smh saddest moment all season.

[DukeUsul]

They Killed Sun and Jin, smh saddest moment all season.

The saddest part is that their daughter won't have even one parent. I thought maybe one would make it out.

[Wander]

Anyone remember what happens in Stephen King's The Stand right before the final act of the book?

Also usually when they don't specifically show the body, it's a fake death, but being a fairly minor character this close to the end of the show, Frank is definitely dead, right?

[Jarhead]

High intensity. Flocke is not getting off that island, but we are still guessing about the survivors. How will the alternate time line be reconciled with the island events? I've got too many guesses to mention, but Desmond will somehow get all those people together somewhere, and with great difficulty

[airowe]

Flocke needs all the candidates dead before he can leave the island. There are only 3 left. Jack, Hurley, and Sawyer. It has to be setting up for a Flocke-Jack showdown for eternity...

[airowe]

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/05/04/lost-producers-actors-candidate/

[OZZIE4DUKE]

They Killed Sun and Jin, smh saddest moment all season.
It would have been better if one of them died at the fence a few episodes ago. I feel like they were meaningless deaths, like Tasha Yar's.

[A-Tex Devil]

Look's like next week will be a mythology episode.

Still in shock about tonight -- Sayid, Sun, Jin, likely Lupidas, gone.

Where are Miles and Richard? And I imagine we'll see Rose and Bernard on the island again, right? Especially since we saw Bernard tonight.

[ChrisP]

I think this episode is my favorite of the season thus far. Mainly because I feel like finally, something happened! I can't believe they killed off THREE major characters in one show though, wow! I have to wonder if the alt-universe will bring one or more "back" somehow. That would be kind of cheesy though.

Did anyone else find it interesting that unLocke took the watch off that dead guy BEFORE he found the bomb on the plane? Can he somehow see the future? Or maybe he planted the bomb there himself? He did go over to Hydra island recently, right?

Also, what's up with Sawyer wanting to get unLocke into the water? I assume he assumed that it couldn't turn into smoky in there but then Sawyer was nowhere to be found when it happened. I just thought it was kind of odd.

One last thing, Jack used to get on my nerves pretty bad but I'm changing my tune about him now. I loved the fact that he was right about the bomb. Maybe Sawyer's dumba** will listen to him next time.

[JasonEvans]

It was a really strange episode. It may have been the worst episode of the season so far. I am not judging it on the deaths - I am talking about the story elements and what the episode accomplished.

Obviously, it was a very significant episode in the story of the show, but the execution was quite poor in my opinion. It just did not feel like a great script and, aside from the deaths and the fact that we now know FLocke is evil (was there really ever a doubt?), not much important stuff happened.

I mean, the flash sideways was pretty darn lame and uneventful. We found out why Locke is in a wheelchair and we saw Anthony Cooper (I am sure Jack had no trouble finding him-- I mean, how many Anthony Coopers can there be in Los Angeles?). But we got nothing more of the buildup of what is really going on with the sideways world. We completely abandoned the characters getting glimpses of their other life, we had none of Desmond pushing people together, we did not even get a confused look into a mirror with a sense of "something is wrong here," like we have in past episodes. It just felt like the sideways storyline was stuff that could have happened weeks ago. Nothing advanced there at all.

Meanwhile, the Hydra island stuff was also kinda lame. Let me list the reasons why--

Was Whidmore really trying to blow all the Candidates up in that plane? Why? I guess he thought FLocke would be there with them but that seems to demonstrate a real lack of understanding on his part for what FLocke is up to.

Why do Whidmore's people keep on using guns when they know guns won't do diddly to FLocke? And what makes them think that bombs or missiles will do something to FLocke when guns clearly don't even tear his shirt, let alone pierce his skin.

Good thing Whidmore brought all that sonic fencing -- it was useless. It never occurred to Whidmore to protect the sonic fence power supply? I half expected Whidmore to be standing there alongside Flocke in that final scene revealing that he had been on FLocke's side the whole time -- that is how lame and misguided Whidmore's actions have seemed so far.

Remember Whidmore's special chamber where he flashed Desmond? Whatever happened to that? Wasn't the implication that they had to trick Flocke to get in there so they could kill him? Has the show just abandoned that storyline? I guess it will come back into play now that Sayid has told Jack where to rescue Desmond. I sure hope Des is not too hungry -- he's been down in that well for several days now.


And now for the one significant thing to happen in this episode-- the killing of Sayid, Jin, Sun, and Frank (Frank is dead people, there is no doubt in my mind). It all felt rushed, as if the producers decided to kill folks off but did not think about an emotionally relevant or significant way to do it. We did not get a typical "farewell episode" for Sun, Jin, or Sayid. The focus of the episode was all about the relationship between Jack and Locke. It was sorta nice to redeem Sayid from the evil character he had become, but Sun and Jin's deaths just felt like the show was done with them and wanted to stick a dagger in the audience's heart for no good reason. I mean, the show actually had them talk about Ji-Yeon only a few minutes before killing them. It was so intentionally gut-wretching, I found myself detached from it and sorta shrugging it off. I liked the floating hands at the end and Jin's refusal to leave his wife's side, but it did not carry 1/10th of the emotional weight of (for example) Charlie's death at the end of season 3 (still the best episode of Lost, IMO).

I also feel cheated that we were denied a reaction from Sawyer. He is the one who got conned by Flocke. He is the guy who set everyone up. He is the one who fell for it so completely that he killed his friends by pulling out the timing wires. I think Jack was 100% correct that if the timer had just run down, nothing would have happened. It took Sawyer making a conscious CHOICE to cause the deaths. The next episode better include a very contrite Sawyer who recognizes the error of his ways. I want to see a Sawyer who is 100% in Jack's camp-- WE ARE NOT GETTING OFF THIS ISLAND! WE ARE HERE FOR A PURPOSE!

Again, it feels so strange to say this about one of the most significant episodes of the final season, but it just was not a great Lost episode. I hope this is not a sign that the show is limping awkwardly to the finish.

--Jason "I suspect next week will be the last great mythology episode-- explaining the history of Jacob and FLocke and also explaining The Rules" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Also, what's up with Sawyer wanting to get unLocke into the water? I assume he assumed that it couldn't turn into smoky in there but then Sawyer was nowhere to be found when it happened. I just thought it was kind of odd.

See that is exactly why I was turned off by this episode and am surprised you enjoyed it so much. Sawyer says, "get him in the water and I'll take care of the rest..." but then Jack gets Flocke in the water and Sawyer does nothing. Huh?!?!? Was Sawyer's plan merely to leave once they got Flocke in the water? Sorry, but that is mega-lame.

I think the writers have figured out how the show ends, but getting there is requiring them to do some strange plot turns and it sometimes really, really does not work.

I had hoped that as we got closer to the end, these awkward moments would fix themselves, instead we got some of the worst ones yet in tonight's episode.

--Jason "they shoulda killed Sawyer and let Jin live" Evans

[airowe]

Also, what's up with Sawyer wanting to get unLocke into the water? I assume he assumed that it couldn't turn into smoky in there but then Sawyer was nowhere to be found when it happened. I just thought it was kind of odd.



See that is exactly why I was turned off by this episode and am surprised you enjoyed it so much. Sawyer says, "get him in the water and I'll take care of the rest..." but then Jack gets Flocke in the water and Sawyer does nothing. Huh?!?!? Was Sawyer's plan merely to leave once they got Flocke in the water? Sorry, but that is mega-lame.


I'm guessing that Sawyer has figured out that since the black smoke is electrical, Flocke can not be submerged in water when he turns into it? He figured as long as Flocke was in mortal form he could handle him no matter what happened...

I too liked the redemption of Sayid, hopefully that is what allows him to be reunited with Nadiya.

[Wander]

Was Whidmore really trying to blow all the Candidates up in that plane?

Of course not. Either Locke or Ben put the explosives there.

I loved the episode. I've been worried for a while (and still am) that they weren't going to be able to give satisfying endings with so many characters, but I liked the way these were handled. The only thing that bothered me about it at all was that Sawyer leaving Claire behind was completely out of character, though maybe I'm being biased here since they're my two favorites.

[JasonEvans]

Of course not. Either Locke or Ben put the explosives there.

When would Ben have done it? If memory serves, he hasn't been to Hydra island since the plane landed. The last time he was there, he did not even know FLocke existed.

Why would FLocke have put the explosives there? He has not had access to the plane until now. Jack, Sawyer, and the such did not even go on the plane to see the explosives -- they arrive and see the dead guards killed by FLocke and Flocke tells them about the explosives. If Flocke wanted, he could have just told them about the explosives and never actually put the explosives on the plane.

Neither of these explanations make any sense.

Nope, Whidmore put the explosives on the plane and we will never know why nor will it ever make sense. Lame storytelling -- typical of this episode but not typical of Lost overall.

--Jason "I really, really hope this was a one-ep blip!" Evans

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Why were the explosives put so sloppily in the plane? Wires hanging everywhere? Come on, even if you were in a hurry you'd try to hide the wires better. Obviously whoever planted the bomb wanted it found.

As to the comment that no one had an "on Island" memory, while Locke was in the hallway talking to Jack before leaving the hospital, Locke said something about "pushing the button", but Jack ignored it and they never expounded on it. An opportunity "lost" :eek:.

[Duvall]

Nope, Whidmore put the explosives on the plane and we will never know why nor will it ever make sense. Lame storytelling -- typical of this episode but not typical of Lost overall.

Wait, what? Sloppy storytelling, thin character motivations and loose ends are nothing if not typical of LOST.

[DUKIECB]

Link (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/36953060/ns/today-entertainment/)

[JasonEvans]

From the above link--


Lindelof recently told The Hollywood Reporter that the crew built all-new sets for the finale, and he promised that the ending would prompt more questions.

Good, I would not have it any other way ;)

--Jason "the amount of stuff that was central to seasons 1-5 that is going to be ignored and unexplained in season 6 is staggering" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Question for the masses -- Sayid comes right out and says it to Jack... "You are the one." Those are his last words. Jack is the replacement for Jacob.

Why bother to have Sayid say this? The show has been setting up Jack as the obvious choice to be the next Jacob for quite a while now. Jack's acceptance of his need to stay on the island a few weeks ago really sealed it.

But Lost loves to fool us. By making EVERYTHING point to Jack as the ultimate hero of the story, as the new Jacob, it just feels to me like that is yet another misdirection. I still think there is a darn good chance that Hurley is the next Jacob... or maybe Kate (despite her name being crossed out)... and I have not 100% ruled out Sawyer either.

Or maybe they are pointing everything at Jack so we will think it could not possibly be Jack then they are going to fool us by making it actually be Jack. They know that we know that they know that Jack is the man so they will think that we will think that it cannot be Jack so they will make it Jack because he is the most obvious and that means he is the least likely choice.

--Jason "Yup, I got it all figured out now" Evans

[bluebear]

Why were the explosives put so sloppily in the plane? Wires hanging everywhere? Come on, even if you were in a hurry you'd try to hide the wires better. Obviously whoever planted the bomb wanted it found.

Did we actually see Flocke pull a live explosive device off the plane..We saw him following the wires and opening the overhead compartment but clearly he was the one who set up the eventual bomb with the watch..

[A-Tex Devil]

Question for the masses -- Sayid comes right out and says it to Jack... "You are the one." Those are his last words. Jack is the replacement for Jacob.

Why bother to have Sayid say this? The show has been setting up Jack as the obvious choice to be the next Jacob for quite a while now. Jack's acceptance of his need to stay on the island a few weeks ago really sealed it.

But Lost loves to fool us. By making EVERYTHING point to Jack as the ultimate hero of the story, as the new Jacob, it just feels to me like that is yet another misdirection. I still think there is a darn good chance that Hurley is the next Jacob... or maybe Kate (despite her name being crossed out)... and I have not 100% ruled out Sawyer either.

Or maybe they are pointing everything at Jack so we will think it could not possibly be Jack then they are going to fool us by making it actually be Jack. They know that we know that they know that Jack is the man so they will think that we will think that it cannot be Jack so they will make it Jack because he is the most obvious and that means he is the least likely choice.

--Jason "Yup, I got it all figured out now" Evans


You are thinking too hard :D. But Lost makes you do that. In my mind, Jack is the candidate. Now the journey to see how he becomes "the next Jacob" is the thrill.

I am not as down on the episode as you, although the deaths were given short shrift. Still, do we need to set up every death in lost with some kind of elegy to the character? Some shock and awe can be quite effective as well.

I think the plane was wired not to kill the candidates, but to be blown if the candidates were killed so Flocke couldn't use it to get off the island. In my mind, Widmore is using the candidates as bait, where as Flocke is really trying to have them killed (the latter is clear).

Why is Widmore using the candidates as bait? Because I think he wants to trap Flocke somehow and imprison him for good. And he'll do whatever it takes to make that happen.

That backgammon theory posted earlier is starting to make some sense...

[duke23]

When would Ben have done it? If memory serves, he hasn't been to Hydra island since the plane landed. The last time he was there, he did not even know FLocke existed.

Why would FLocke have put the explosives there? He has not had access to the plane until now. Jack, Sawyer, and the such did not even go on the plane to see the explosives -- they arrive and see the dead guards killed by FLocke and Flocke tells them about the explosives. If Flocke wanted, he could have just told them about the explosives and never actually put the explosives on the plane.

Neither of these explanations make any sense.

Nope, Whidmore put the explosives on the plane and we will never know why nor will it ever make sense. Lame storytelling -- typical of this episode but not typical of Lost overall.

--Jason "I really, really hope this was a one-ep blip!" Evans

Seems like you're jumping too conclusions a little bit here. Aren't Ben/Richard/Miles together someplace, with the explicit desire of blowing up that plane? Or, more likely, isn't it possible that Flocke planted it there ahead of time in case he didn't get to the plane before the rest of the group? Or, the plane was actually the backup plan, but there was a better chance someone would notice it and try to disarm it if it was in a backpack and/or on the sub? I don't disagree with your other quibbles about the episode but there's little evidence to suggest Widmore actually planted the bomb. Why else would Flocke take that guy's watch before even boarding the plane?

[mkirsh]

Meanwhile, the Hydra island stuff was also kinda lame. Let me list the reasons why--

Was Whidmore really trying to blow all the Candidates up in that plane? Why? I guess he thought FLocke would be there with them but that seems to demonstrate a real lack of understanding on his part for what FLocke is up to.

Why do Whidmore's people keep on using guns when they know guns won't do diddly to FLocke? And what makes them think that bombs or missiles will do something to FLocke when guns clearly don't even tear his shirt, let alone pierce his skin.

Good thing Whidmore brought all that sonic fencing -- it was useless. It never occurred to Whidmore to protect the sonic fence power supply? I half expected Whidmore to be standing there alongside Flocke in that final scene revealing that he had been on FLocke's side the whole time -- that is how lame and misguided Whidmore's actions have seemed so far.

Remember Whidmore's special chamber where he flashed Desmond? Whatever happened to that? Wasn't the implication that they had to trick Flocke to get in there so they could kill him? Has the show just abandoned that storyline? I guess it will come back into play now that Sayid has told Jack where to rescue Desmond. I sure hope Des is not too hungry -- he's been down in that well for several days now.





The other thing to add to the "Why did Whidmore do that?" list is the fact that the guards to the sub were snipers in the trees - more like they were trying to force people onto the sub rather than protect it.

[ncexnyc]

Lots to talk about after last night's episode.

Four possible deaths. Sayid a most definite, but extremely lame. The guy is supposed to be infected, something which is supposed to get worse over time, yet he gets better with each episode to the point where he sacrifices himself. Lapidis is another most definite and I like the way it was done. Frank was good with the glib remarks throughout his run on the show and his final line was in keeping with his character. Sun and Jin, I'd say Sun is a definite and Jin is 90% definite. I'll give Jin a remote chance of being alive since he did survive an exploding ship and we just saw hands drifting apart. The whole scene was rather lame and unbelieveble. I mean come on folks, not one word from Sun telling Jin to go because someone needs to be with the daughter. I wouldn't be shocked, if out of nowhere Jin surfaced and stock it to Flocke, say a flying body block into an electric grid.

Now about this water thing and Flocke. IIRC wasn't it pouring rain when the monster chased Kate and Juliette and then waaaay back in season 1 when the pilot got snatched and Smokey proceeded to chase Jack, Kate, and Charlie?

The bomb on the plane seems to have people wondering if it was a set-up or not. All I know is if I'm trying to get off some stinking island and I'm in a hurry I'm not looking around, paying attention to wires hanging out, especially on a plane that crash landed onto the island.

Jack tells Flocke he's staying on the island, yet Flocke puts a bomb in Jack's backpack? Haven't we been saying that Flocke can't kill a candidate? Yet he can place a bomb in a backpack and with some hokey explaination that he's not really killing the candidates, but they do it to themselves is awfully lame.
And we are supposed to buy into the idea that Flocke somehow knew the Losties would con him, hmmmm very much a stretch.

[airowe]

I'm thinking the bomb was not fully installed on the plane yet. The two guys who came out of the plane were obviously surprised that Lockeness Monster showed up.

Besides, would a bomb really do anything to the Monster? Why the science experiments with Desmond in the electromagnetic microwave? Its clear the only way to fry the electric smoke monster is via some sort of radiation, not some guns or missiles.

Whidmore's men were more likely trying to blow up any alternate manner of transportation off the island besides the sub. The sub was not guarded well because they did not anticipate Lockeness' men to approach. The snipers showed up after the 815ers in response to their takeover.

The broken down plane is now the only way off the island unless Lockeness can leave via another fashion if no one else is left to stop him.

[ncexnyc]

This might make to much sense, but if they are looking for a way off the island, why not let everyone take a turn spinning the donkey wheel?

[A-Tex Devil]

Jack tells Flocke he's staying on the island, yet Flocke puts a bomb in Jack's backpack? Haven't we been saying that Flocke can't kill a candidate? Yet he can place a bomb in a backpack and with some hokey explaination that he's not really killing the candidates, but they do it to themselves is awfully lame.
And we are supposed to buy into the idea that Flocke somehow knew the Losties would con him, hmmmm very much a stretch.

If they let the bomb tick down, instead of accelerating it (thereby throwing their own actions into the mix), the bomb wouldn't have gone off -- a la Jack, Richard and the dynamite. But Sawyer pulled the wires, so he's the one that triggers the bomb at that point. Not Flocke. Flocke set the trap.

I do think the plane is wired simply to blow up as a last resort if Flocke tried to use it to get off the island.

[alteran]

Okay, I'm kind of in the middle with this episode. I liked getting answers, but I agree with others that the episode felt rushed, sloppy, sometimes trite. I can't remember which side I was on in the "is the early season pace too slow?" department, but this episode implies that, yes, the pace was too slow. That being said, I like that things HAPPENED.

Some thoughts:

1) I'm not convinced Jin is dead. Sun, yes, Jin, not so sure. Now, judging from what they showed us, it looks pretty clear that Jin's dead-- almost as clear as it did when he was on the freighter and it exploded catastrophically. A lot of people are saying, "how unrealistic that the Kwons didn't think about their daughter," "how cruel of the writers to orphan Ji Yeon," etc. My thought is that if Jin returns (at some dramatically critical moment, natch), we'll be treated to a moment back on the sub that we weren't shown-- maybe Sun RESPONDING to Jin saying, "I'll never leave you" with, "if you're with Ji Yeon, you'll always be with me." BTW-- did Jack take the oxygen tank? Are we sure there wasn't another? I'm going with a 20% chance on this one.

2) Jack's the new Jacob. Count on it. They may jerk us around a little, but it's too late for that kind of misdirection.

3) Anyone like the symmetry between Jack bombing the island and killing Juliet, and Sawyer blowing up the sub and killing bunches of folks? Remember, Sawyer wasn't crazy about Jack's nuke plan but went along. Afterwards, he was harsh and bitter towards Jack. (Understandably.) Now things have come full circle. I think we'll see a forgiving Jack-- it'll be interesting to see how Sawyer handles it, contrition versus digging in.

4) Speaking of Sawyer, how does LAX Sawyer get closure with Anthony Cooper now? And how did Jack find Anthony Cooper in 6 minutes when an obsessed LA detective couldn't find him over a period of years? Sloppy.

5) Flocke is clearly, irredeemably, and utterly evil, and now we know beyond argument. (I guess Lindelhof and Cuse were tired of the debate on the message boards.) Furthermore, the game is afoot. The candidates now absolutely know Flocke is trying to kill them, period. Someone here mentioned The Stand and I'm seeing a lot of parallels.* Evil is beginning to make mistakes. This actually tells us something we didn't know before-- Flocke doesn't need the candidates to get off the island, he merely/actually needs them to be dead.

5a) I've always wondered why Flocke doesn't wipe out those opposing him when he had the opportunity. Now I think I know why-- everyone represents a potential tool to be used to kill candidates/Jacob. Best not to get rid of them all unless they stop your immediate goals, or you are convinced they can never be tricked or cajoled into helping you.

6) Did anyone catch Claire's look when Flocke said "some of them survived" or whatever? I expected Claire to be freaking out and looking to redouble her commitment to Flocke after being left behind AGAIN. Looks like she came out of this episode disenchanted with Flocke, and he's too obsessed now to notice.

7) I think Bernard and Rose are Adam and Eve. I'm just not sure how they get there.

8) Jason-- you're too trusting of Flocke. We don't really know what Flocke found on the plane-- and they were very careful not to let us REALLY know-- but we can be pretty sure that it's not what Flocke said. Maybe Widmore had a use for the plane, just in case, but he didn't want Locke to get it, so he had it rigged to explode. Maybe the guys Flocke killed were supposed to blow it on contact with Flocke. Maybe the plane was noticeably filled with booby traps so Widmore could keep the plane (and defuse it at will), yet still prevent Flocke from using it. I don't consider this a weak plot point.

9) Jason-- on the flip side, good call on the sonic fencing. I'm not sure what kind of strategery it is to let Flocke know that you're there and not have 73 contingencies that assure that the fencing is always running. That should have been Job 1. More proof that the episode was rushed. I agree with you, they're got certain plot points they HAVE to hit, and if the story they've written so far gets in the way, too bad.

10) Good call by whoever said the sub was weakly defended against being taken. I think that means something, I'm not sure what, though. It could be more sloppiness, but I'm hopeful it was deliberate.

11) Haven't seen the boy in the woods lately. Hmmmm.

Two weeks of regular episodes, then finale night. Gonna be a long three weeks.

--alteran

* BTW, and I'm not sure if the reference earlier meant this, but the bad guy in The Stand is ALSO called The Man in Black, and he gets reincarnated on an island/beach after his defeat.

[Wander]

* BTW, and I'm not sure if the reference earlier meant this, but the bad guy in The Stand is ALSO called The Man in Black, and he gets reincarnated on an island/beach after his defeat.

Makes sense too, there's quite a few parallels, but I was actually referring to the events that took place in the book right before the final act. All the good guys are in one small area when a bomb goes off killing multiple main characters. It would have killed everyone had not one of the main characters (the guy who was mute or deaf or something, I don't remember it all too well) dulled the effects of the bomb by sacrificing himself.

[DukieBoy]

Was is everyone convinced Lapedus (sp) is dead? This is a typical Lost situation. Nothing anywhere pointed to Lapedus dying, IIRC, so who is to say he's dead?

I'm convinced Sun and Jin are dead as they wouldn't have devoted so much at the end of the sub sinking and there hands drifting apart at the end if they were going to live.

However, I think Lapedus is alive. And he's going to do something crazy in an upcoming episode. Unlike Sayid and Sun and Jin, we don't know if he's dead.

[JasonEvans]

Was is everyone convinced Lapedus (sp) is dead? This is a typical Lost situation. Nothing anywhere pointed to Lapedus dying, IIRC, so who is to say he's dead?

I'm convinced Sun and Jin are dead as they wouldn't have devoted so much at the end of the sub sinking and there hands drifting apart at the end if they were going to live.

However, I think Lapedus is alive. And he's going to do something crazy in an upcoming episode. Unlike Sayid and Sun and Jin, we don't know if he's dead.

Dissent. The door blew off its hinges onto him as thousands of pounds of water rushed over his body. He's toast. They just did not have time to show it. Heck, the episode was so packed that they did not even have a "previously on Lost" at the beginning.

There is no reason to keep him alive. No one is ever getting off the island again. This includes Desmond, who will never be reunited with Penny and baby Charlie.

It is still very possible that the end will be just one of the characters we love surviving. If it is Jack, this means that Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, Ben, and Miles would all be toast. I think Richard will survive too. Oh, and Flocke will survive (in some form). If Flocke does not make it, then what is the purpose of the Island and what is the purpose of Jacob's replacement?

I think we may get our happy ending in the sideways world where everyone will be alive and happy... but I sorta doubt it.

--Jason "Frank was always less interesting than Miles, Charlotte, and Faraday -- nice dude, but I won't really miss him" Evans

[Jarhead]

I'm not at all convinced that Jin is dead. The only evidence we saw was the fact that Sun could not be freed from the debris. Jin and Sun just drifted apart. And Lapedus wasn't shown to be in any kind of distress other than being on a sinking sub. Next week's show will be quite telling. My problem is that I don't see how they will reconcile the two parallel story lines. I guess Desmond will show us how that turns out. Not much time left, though.

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

2 things my adhd forces me to point out here:

1) This bothers me, it happens in a lot of bad movies: really horrible common sense (think I Am Legend when Will Smith is crawling on his bum with 1 hurt leg while the zombie dog things are coming after him, I mean anyone trying to survive, especially that has to get up anyways to get in a car is going to use their 3 working digits to pick them selves up and hop on one leg)

In Lost, however minimal the importance of the scene - there goes Kate reaching for the keys on the hip of the guy that just got killed close to the cage. I mean his arm is right there, he's a teeny guy, are you really not going to just pull his arm to get his body 6 inches closer to you instead of desperately reaching for the keys that are just a seemingly a millimeter out of reach??

Really, after 6 season, that's the best drama you have for me?


2) One thing that made Lost really interesting for me was the fringe science aspect of it that the producers seemed to put out there in a super viral way throughout the first 4 seasons. It seems like they thought about it, tried, and gave up with the implementation of Faraday's character and we won't hear anything else about it. I'm guessing that came with JJA having less and less to do with the show.

I really feel like Lost has transformed into a poor adult cartoon.



#3) I finally saw Hurt Locker...
Evangeline Lilly will always be Kate, no matter how outlandish a role she plays in the future.

[budwom]

In a show which is always filled with preposterous events, I just have to ask how they thought they'd get a huge airliner to take off, without a runway, in several inches of sand....though I guess that's no more unreasonable than the notion that it actually "landed" there.

[northernduke]

I also feel cheated that we were denied a reaction from Sawyer. He is the one who got conned by Flocke. He is the guy who set everyone up. He is the one who fell for it so completely that he killed his friends by pulling out the timing wires. I think Jack was 100% correct that if the timer had just run down, nothing would have happened. It took Sawyer making a conscious CHOICE to cause the deaths. The next episode better include a very contrite Sawyer who recognizes the error of his ways. I want to see a Sawyer who is 100% in Jack's camp-- WE ARE NOT GETTING OFF THIS ISLAND! WE ARE HERE FOR A PURPOSE!

Doesn't Sawyer setting the bomb off resulting in the death of Jin and Sun completely repudiate what we learned in the Halpert / Black Rock episode? Neither Jack nor Halpert were able to kill themselves (or the other person) with the dynamite in the ship. If this was true, how is Sawyer able to kill Jin and/or Sun? One of those two still had their name on the list without a line through it.

Felt like last night's episode was just jammed into season because they needed to get somewhere quick and realized they were running out of time...

[OZZIE4DUKE]

In a show which is always filled with preposterous events, I just have to ask how they thought they'd get a huge airliner to take off, without a runway, in several inches of sand....though I guess that's no more unreasonable than the notion that it actually "landed" there.
Budwom, I'm in complete agreement with you on this. How are they going to get the plane out of the woods, turned around, on its landing gear (assuming it's still stowed in flight configuration and it didn't collapse in the controlled crash landing on the soft sand), and then rolling down some sort of runway to gain enough airspeed to take off? :eek:

Luke, use the force! :cool::D

[DukeDevil]

Doesn't Sawyer setting the bomb off resulting in the death of Jin and Sun completely repudiate what we learned in the Halpert / Black Rock episode? Neither Jack nor Halpert were able to kill themselves (or the other person) with the dynamite in the ship. If this was true, how is Sawyer able to kill Jin and/or Sun? One of those two still had their name on the list without a line through it.

Well actually I thought about it and I think it fits in fine...the dynamite didn't go off because jack lit the dynamite and stayed. Interestingly enough, even when it started going faster, it's possible that if sawyer was the one to take it to the back, it wouldn't have gone off, but because sayid did and he wasn't the one to start the bomb speeding up in motion, it could go off.

It seems that it's not that they can't be killed, they just can't be killed by Flocke or themselves, but they can kill each other or be killed by regular folk on the island.

Thoughts?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

It seems that it's not that they can't be killed, they just can't be killed by Flocke or themselves, but they can kill each other or be killed by regular folk on the island.

Thoughts?
I'll buy that.


Nein! Ef!
I like this! :cool:

[CLT Devil]

In a show which is always filled with preposterous events, I just have to ask how they thought they'd get a huge airliner to take off, without a runway, in several inches of sand....though I guess that's no more unreasonable than the notion that it actually "landed" there.

Ditto.

I still think that the alternate timeline/ability to time-travel is going to lead to some unfulfilling ending. I can see it being like that Paltrow (I think) movie a few years back where she either got on a train or didn't, and they show what happens in both scenarios. I think it will end much like that...here's what happens if you don't get on the place, here's what happens if you do. It would explain the whole "there are more questions" at the end...which really really chaps my hide. And to think I actually thought the writers had some sort of set storyline when I watched that first episode.....never gonna devote my time to a show like LOST again if that's the case.

Sorry to be Debbie Downer, but with three espisodes left there is way too much to reslove, without aving questions remaining in the end which I think defeats the whole feel of the show; Every action, charactor, event has a meaning in the grand scheme.

[DukeUsul]

Ditto.

Sorry to be Debbie Downer, but with three espisodes left there is way too much to reslove, without aving questions remaining in the end which I think defeats the whole feel of the show; Every action, charactor, event has a meaning in the grand scheme.

Wha whaaaaaaaaaa......

[alteran]

In Lost, however minimal the importance of the scene - there goes Kate reaching for the keys on the hip of the guy that just got killed close to the cage. I mean his arm is right there, he's a teeny guy, are you really not going to just pull his arm to get his body 6 inches closer to you instead of desperately reaching for the keys that are just a seemingly a millimeter out of reach??

Yeah, I noticed that. More sloppiness. Lost on its game was better than that. I just rolled with it.

[alteran]

I'm not at all convinced that Jin is dead. The only evidence we saw was the fact that Sun could not be freed from the debris. Jin and Sun just drifted apart. And Lapedus wasn't shown to be in any kind of distress other than being on a sinking sub. Next week's show will be quite telling. My problem is that I don't see how they will reconcile the two parallel story lines. I guess Desmond will show us how that turns out. Not much time left, though.

I think Lapidus is dead. However, my case isn't much better than, "I think Lapidus is dead."

Lapidus appeared to have been struck by a flying steel pressure hatch in a confined space quickly flooded with water. That's undoubtedly a fatal/near fatal incident, particularly in a sub which catastrophically sinks in about 2 minutes.

However, the hatch may not quite have struck him, and lord knows the incident Jin survived unscathed on the freighter was more blatantly fatal.

If they want him back, they'll bring him back. With 4.5 hours of show left, I don't think they want him back.

[alteran]

In a show which is always filled with preposterous events, I just have to ask how they thought they'd get a huge airliner to take off, without a runway, in several inches of sand....though I guess that's no more unreasonable than the notion that it actually "landed" there.

Now that I think of it, isn't there a runway on Hydra? That's what Kate and Sawyer were smashing up rocks for in New Otherton, right?

I think Ajira just ran off the end. There's probably enough Dharma equipment to winch them back on the runway.

If there's no runway, than it is clearly impossible to get that plane in the air.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Now that I think of it, isn't there a runway on Hydra? That's what Kate and Sawyer were smashing up rocks for in New Otherton, right?

I think Ajira just ran off the end. There's probably enough Dharma equipment to winch them back on the runway.

If there's no runway, than it is clearly impossible to get that plane in the air.
You are/may be right. The rocks were definitely for a runway - we learned that last year when they landed. I forgot. Guess you're right about them running out of runway and running into the woods. I still think using The Force is more likely than winching the plane out of it's current predicament. :D

I wonder if the Langoliers have made the fuel "old" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Langoliers

[DukeUsul]

Now that I think of it, isn't there a runway on Hydra? That's what Kate and Sawyer were smashing up rocks for in New Otherton, right?

I think Ajira just ran off the end. There's probably enough Dharma equipment to winch them back on the runway.

If there's no runway, than it is clearly impossible to get that plane in the air.

I believe when the Ajira plane cashed, it crashed on dirt. I don't think it was near runway.

ETA
Screencap:
http://maryelere.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/runway.jpg

[alteran]

I believe when the Ajira plane cashed, it crashed on dirt. I don't think it was near runway.

ETA
Screencap:
http://maryelere.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/runway.jpg

Another great theory crushed by an inconvenient fact. More:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Landing.jpg

See, it was special electro-magnetically stablized high-impact sand. And...

Okay, looks like another goof.

[A-Tex Devil]

So next week is supposed to be the mythology episode that shows that TPTB knew exactly what they were doing the whole time. Now there may be some arcs here and there, and some deux es machina with respect to the production of the show (AAA wanting to quit, for example) that have steered them off the originally intended path from time to time But I am hoping some of the mythology is explained on Tuesday that will settle some nerves. I also believe the endgame (whatever that may be) was what was originally intended. How we get there may not have been originally intended, but whatever we see next week will be what these guys were thinking in 2004.

And look, folks, some things just aren't going to be explained, and if it happens to have been one of the questions you latched on to, you are going to be disappointed. I've always thought the numbers explanation was a little weak, for instance, but I'll roll with it.

Maybe I'm too forgiving, but every time I think they are dropping an important story line, it comes back (Widmore this year being the prime example).

[El_Diablo]

Another great theory crushed by an inconvenient fact. More:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Landing.jpg

See, it was special electro-magnetically stablized high-impact sand. And...

Okay, looks like another goof.

It was the runway that Kate and Sawyer were building on Hydra.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090319064858/lostpedia/images/thumb/6/61/5x09_Runway_1.jpg/800px-5x09_Runway_1.jpg

The closeups of the landing show dirt, but a layer of dirt can accumulate on rock after a few years of neglect, right? Believe me, of all the inconsistencies to nitpick over...this should not be one of them.

[ncexnyc]

Yeah, I noticed that. More sloppiness. Lost on its game was better than that. I just rolled with it.

So people are questioning why Kate didn't just grab the guys arm and pull him closer. I've often watched Jeopardy and yelled at the contestants for blowing a question that seemed like a no-brainer and thought to myself I could do a lot better. Then in 2005 I attended ComicCon and went to a breakfast that was sponsered by a magazine devoted to nonsport trading cards. I lucked out and was selected to compete for a complete archive set of "Lost In Space" cards, value which was about $1500. So there I stood with my fellow collector and the questions were asked. I answered the first two, but as the pressure mounted my mind went blank to a question I knew but couldn't spit out the answer and there went a $1500 prize.

For those who don't get the point, let me put it into terms basketball fans can relate too. In the heat of the moment it's easy to pull a Fred Brown or a Chris Webber.

[DukeUsul]

It was the runway that Kate and Sawyer were building on Hydra.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090319064858/lostpedia/images/thumb/6/61/5x09_Runway_1.jpg/800px-5x09_Runway_1.jpg

The closeups of the landing show dirt, but a layer of dirt can accumulate on rock after a few years of neglect, right? Believe me, of all the inconsistencies to nitpick over...this should not be one of them.

I don't see any reason to think it was the same runway they were building. If I ran that island I'd have had a dirt strip runway for small craft to land on. And then if I were building a runway from stone, I'd build it in addition to the dirt strip one. Regardless of which runway it was, landing that large an aircraft on it would conceivably cause damage to the aircraft, so I've never understood how they thought they'd be able to get it back in the air.

[johnb]

On Lost, no body, no death.

Lapidus, and Jin could certainly be alive. Heck, even Sayid could be alive.

Okay, not Sayid, but the other guys could be and probably are.

****

I don't think the show has the guts to create two orphans, so I'd guess that both Jin and Claire are going home to their babies--and that Kate may die making sure that the latter happens. Or maybe Claire will die to ensure that Kate can go home--especially given that the baby only knows Kate and Claire is insane.

****

Flocke and Jacob are playing backgammon; they're not playing Angel/Devil. And on Lost, as soon as someone becomes villainous, he's redeemed, and we still don't really know who's who and why. Flocke is a big ol' liar, but when he says something to the effect of, "some are still alive, so there's work to do," I believe him, but I don't think he's necessarily saying he plans to go kill them. By blowing up the sub, I think he was dividing up the chosen from the unchosen. He knew that at least one of them couldn't die on the sub and that he needed them to do something, and this would be part of his plan. Whether or not the bomb were found, it could go off and the invulnerable would stay, well, invulnerable.

When he says he wants off the island, I think perhaps he wants to finally die, not get set up in a condo in L.A or inflict everlasting pain on the world.

****

I think the season's biggest disappointment is the almost complete absence of Ben, who was one of the great creepy, scary tv actors of all time. Why make him so small? And why crush down the roles of Desmond and Charles? Those decisions bug me, as do the huge number of plot conflicts and the lengthy plot twists that seem unimportant and uninteresting.

****

My guesses: Hurley is not an adequately serious leader to be chosen.
Sawyer is an action hero, not an observer, and seems a bad fit to be chosen.
Jin and Claire/Kate have to go back to their kids.
Kate and Jack can't be the final pairing cause then it'd just be an eternity of them nearly having a fling, and that would be too painful to imagine.

I think we may see two people chosen, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are two guys who aren't in love with anyone and can therefore afford to spend the ensuing centuries on the island, mulling stuff over. I'd guess Jack (Red Sox fan) and Lapidus (Yankees fan).

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I think we may see two people chosen, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are two guys who aren't in love with anyone and can therefore afford to spend the ensuing centuries on the island, mulling stuff over. I'd guess Jack (Red Sox fan) and Lapidus (Yankees fan).
Ooh! I like this also. Let's go Frank! Let's go Frank! Let's go Frank! :D

[Duke4Ever32]

Ooh! I like this also. Let's go Jack! Let's go Jack! Let's go Jack! :D

Fixed your post. ;):D And I LOVE this theory - if that happened this would be my fav TV show EVER!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

fixed your post. ;):d and i love this theory - if that happened this would be my fav tv show ever!

Wrong!

[DukieBoy]

However, the hatch may not quite have struck him, and lord knows the incident Jin survived unscathed on the freighter was more blatantly fatal.

My exact point. Jin was on a ship with enough C4 to blow up half of NY and he survived. Lapidus had a far less fatal accident than that.

And Lord knows that Jin once survived an exploding boat. I'm sure he can survive a sinking sub

[kingboozer]

heres what my thoughts are. i think that flock can't leave the island unless the candidates are all dead. i think all will die except for jack and he will become the new jacob and flock is stuck on the island, and it all starts from scratch. heard it hear first!

[NYC Duke Fan]

The final show has been increased from 2 hours to 2 1/2 hours and the producers have said that there will be unanswered questions even after the show ends.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

I was finally able to watch the show last night, so here's my late response.

A very sad episode, almost as emotional as the season finale when Charlie drowns. I really liked Jin and Sun, it's upsetting to see them go.

I'm not sure what all the complaining is about, I liked the episode a lot.

I do question Widmore's supposed incompetence, it doesn't seem to pan out. I'm not entirely sure that he and Flocke aren't in cahoots. For example, why did Flocke pick up the watch BEFORE he went into the plane? It appears he knew the bomb was there. Was this just a smart deduction by him, or did he actually know?

As for Kate not getting the keys... Who cares? She probably would have figured it out, but Jack got there too quick. This is an insignificant quibble.

[JasonEvans]

A thought about FLocke and his plans...

He and Jacob both seems to be able to see how their actions will affect things in the future. Recall Jacob's visits into the past of our main characters and how he took small actions that often seemed to change the course of our character's lives. I mean, Nadia beign hit by the car -- he saw that coming somehow.

Recall also the was Flocke spoke about Jacob when he showed Sawyer the cave with the names on the wall -- how Flocke mentioned that Jacob had done small things to push Sawyer and the other candidates to the Island.

Now, recall the intricacy of Flocke's plan to have Ben kill Jacob. Wow!! It is impossible for us to say where/when the plan started, but it certainly appears to have been going on for a loooong time (FLocke was the one in the shack who told Ben to move the Island and who told the real Locke to fix the Donkey wheel). There were a number of tiny moves along the way that led to Ben killing Jacob.

And what about Flocke's plan to get all the Candidates on the sub -- he knew it would take something drastic (a shootout) to force Jack onto the sub. He knew he had to get them on there with him not there and that they had to find the bomb and try to disarm it to cause it to go off. He played Sawyer and the others perfectly.

Anyway, it is clear to me that FLocke and Jacob can see how their actions will alter and affect the future.

I bring this up because it may begin to explain some of how FLocke knew the bomb was on the plane and how he knew to pick up the watch and other stuff.

I also bring it up because it crates an interesting discussion of where FLocke and Jacob's vision of the future ends. Does FLocke know that Sayid did not kill Desmond? Does he know which Candidates survived or how they survived? I think it is possible that FLocke/Jacob can see possibile outcomes but "free will" still allows these outcomes to change. Sayid chose not to kill Desmond, so FLocke cannot see that.

I dunno... just something to think about. I am really looking foward to some major explanations this week with the FLocke and Jacob flashback episode.

--Jason "good vs. evil, black and white pieces on a ches board... a little simplistic but I can live with it" Evans

[johnb]

I wonder how much his plans had to be intricately planned.

If his goal were to kill some of our guys but not the chosen, then Flocke coulda been on the sub, or not, so it wouldn't have been vital that he was forced off (it's not like the bomb woulda killed him, after all). The important issue was that quite a few of the unchosen were on it and that the survivors would be very angry with him--though I don't know why he'd want them to be so angry, unless he wanted to put them in a position that they'd want to kill him.

[El_Diablo]

On Lost, no body, no death.

Lapidus, and Jin could certainly be alive.

Jin is dead, dude. If not, then whose hand was shown drifting away from Sun's? Frank's? If it was Jin's (as I think it clearly was), then the only reason he gently lets go were:

(1) He was dead.
(2) He was unconscious. And therefore dead in seconds.
(3) He consciously decided to let go, then swam away, then got out of the sub, then got to the surface. After the sub symbolically sunk out of view. And without an oxygen tank. And without anyone else (Jack, Hurley, Kate) see/hear him surface. But maybe he's just trying to trick them too... :confused: :p

Come on...he's dead. Those hands sealed the deal, showing that there WAS a body. It was more touching and classy to show it that way, rather then just zooming in on their drowned faces.

Jin's still alive in the sideways world though.


Flocke is a big ol' liar, but when he says something to the effect of, "some are still alive, so there's work to do," I believe him, but I don't think he's necessarily saying he plans to go kill them. By blowing up the sub, I think he was dividing up the chosen from the unchosen. He knew that at least one of them couldn't die on the sub and that he needed them to do something, and this would be part of his plan. Whether or not the bomb were found, it could go off and the invulnerable would stay, well, invulnerable.

He said, "Not all of them" in response to Claire's question: "They're all dead?!?" While your theory is interesting, I don't think he was necessarily talking about Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sawyer. I think he was in fact talking about Desmond, and that he had not yet finished the task of killing off everyone because he realized (or already knew) that Sayid had not done the deed as requested. He can't shoot Desmond himself, so he would need to convince someone else to do it (like Claire, who thus still serves a purpose).

Sayid's last words to Jack set the stage for a rescue mission, with Jack getting Desmond out just before FLocke arrives. Or with Jack convincing Claire not to kill Desmond. Or...well...who the heck knows!?

[DukieBoy]

Another thing I thought of....

at the end of the episode, FLocke says they are still alive (referring to the survivors). He wasn't anywhere near the survivors, had not seen them, but knew they were alive. He obviously has some time of sixth sense of sorts to figure out that they were still alive. Why couldn't this sense have also worked when he walked up to the plane? Could he have known someone else put a bomb there the same way he knew that the survivors were washed up on shore

[johnb]

"If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If it's not going to be fired, it shouldn't be hanging there."
—Anton Chekhov

Jack offered an oxygen canister to Jin. Someone HAS to use it, since we already know that any of our heroes can easily get out of all sorts of scrapes without resorting to mechanical devices. Maybe it was simply to demonstrate that Jin knew he wouldn't get out alive, but that's a BIG maybe. And it's especially unlikely given that either he or Sun was on the list, which seems to indicate that one of them can't die just yet...

I'd be quite surprised if we don't get a scene in which Jack is carrying out Sawyer, sees Lapidus, hands him the oxygen canister, and tells him to go get Jin, who is just dropping into unconsciousness when we see his hand and Lapidus sees him, and all will be well when he realizes that he has a daughter to take care of.

I'm less certain about Lapidus getting elevated to the role of co-top-dog; that only occurred to me when I saw in lostpedia that he was a Yankees fan and recalled Jack watching a Red Sox world series victory while in his cell.

We also didn't get the usual sendoff for such a central character as Sayid. Makes me wonder if his spirit isn't saved by his self sacrifice, so that he can return to the show in some way beyond just the parallel world, but thatd be stretching it.

[DukeDevil]

"Jack offered an oxygen canister to Jin. Someone HAS to use it, since we already know that any of our heroes can easily get out of all sorts of scrapes without resorting to mechanical devices. Maybe it was simply to demonstrate that Jin knew he wouldn't get out alive, but that's a BIG maybe. And it's especially unlikely given that either he or Sun was on the list, which seems to indicate that one of them can't die just yet...

I'd be quite surprised if we don't get a scene in which Jack is carrying out Sawyer, sees Lapidus, hands him the oxygen canister, and tells him to go get Jin, who is just dropping into unconsciousness when we see his hand and Lapidus sees him, and all will be well when he realizes that he has a daughter to take care of.

Jack actually swims up without the canister, he has to keep it in Sawyer's mouth b/c he is unconscious and can't hold his breath. Not that these details matter in TV land but those pony bottles they use are only really good for a single emergency accent. (ascent - sry, would have deleted original spelling but it's kind of funny)

[Udaman]

Wow - I'm surprised at some of the negativity from this week's episode. I actually really, really liked it. We finally got some answers:

Is Fake-Locke really bad, or possibly good? Answered. He's bad. End of story

Does Locke need all the candidates together to get off the island? Nope. He wants them all together so they can be killed.

Can the candidates be killed by Locke? Nope. They can't kill themselves either - they can only kill each other.

Is Desmond alive? Yep.

Will this show ever kill one of the remaining regulars? Yes, yes and yes!

So sure, there are some things that don't make sense yet. I agree that Whitmore seems poorly written. He's trying to draw in Locke, but I'm not sure why. I agree with JE that it would have been great to see Whitmore and Locke on the same side at the end....now that would have been a twist.

Also, where are Ben and Richard and Miles? They haven't been seen in three plus episodes (several days).

And why did some people have flashes to the island when Desmond saw them in the alternative timeline (i.e. Desmond and Hurley), when others don't (Jack, Claire, Locke, etc). Why did Sun seem to know who Locke was when she was brought in with the gun-shot wound?

And yes, many, many subplots from earlier seasons have been dropped. The Whitmore versus Ben thing, hell, the entire Others purpose and why they were there and what the list was, and why they took the kids, etc, etc. But oh well.

Jack is the Candidate. It will come down to him versus Locke. I'm not sure how the others will die, but I think many of them will (although I think Kate will get off the island to be with Claire's son, and Hurley will get off to raise Jin and Sun's kid (oh, and they are 100% dead, by the way).

I don't know what the alternative timeline has to do with anything, and why Desmond has disappeared, or how this thing will ultimately end....but I'm liking this season, despite all of its faults.

[JasonEvans]

Wow - I'm surprised at some of the negativity from this week's episode. I actually really, really liked it. We finally got some answers:

Is Fake-Locke really bad, or possibly good? Answered. He's bad. End of story

Does Locke need all the candidates together to get off the island? Nope. He wants them all together so they can be killed.

Can the candidates be killed by Locke? Nope. They can't kill themselves either - they can only kill each other.

Is Desmond alive? Yep.

Will this show ever kill one of the remaining regulars? Yes, yes and yes!


Every one of youur answers was already pretty much answered. I could have answered each of those with 95%... no, 99% certainty.

-Jason

[BluDevilGal]

Could FLocke knowing that they're not all dead be as simple as him knowing he's still stuck on the island? What we know so far seems to imply that he won't be free unless all the candidates are dead. One would think he'd be able to tell somehow if his bondage were suddenly over.

Or maybe I'm just ruining all the fun by trying to come up with a simple answer! ;-)