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Big Pappa
04-29-2010, 02:08 PM
This is a Tyler Adams thread, right? Maybe we can take the "most hated Duke player" conversation into another thread?

This is correct and in light of this I figured we should start a thread so here you go. If a mod would please move the other posts over here.

I think it will come down to either Kyle or Mason.

What do you think?

Billy Dat
04-29-2010, 02:10 PM
You never can tell...although I'd argue that this year there was no most hated Dukie. No one was even close to the rancor generated by Laettner, Wojo, Dahntay, Redick or Paulus.

Andre Buckner Fan
04-29-2010, 02:16 PM
With Kyle staying, he'll probably inherit the mantle in his senior season.

I wouldn't be shocked if Kyrie rockets up the list though...

northernduke
04-29-2010, 02:19 PM
I think it will come down to either Kyle or Mason.

What do you think?

As of the end of last season I think it'd have to be Kyle only because he received the media attention and playing time. However, I would not characterize Kyle as a hated Dukie (at this point) like others have been. But he does have the makeup to be one -- coming back for senior year, pre-season All America (likely), and should receive a lot of camera time to start the year...we know how this rubs some people.

All that said, I think Mason has a higher ceiling on the 'hatred index' if he stays for 3 or years. I say this because the camera caught the backboard slaps and occassional joshing with opponents last year (and he wasn't a focal point for the media). Wait until the camera and focus resides on him.

I hope they both give fans a reason to hate them...play with an edge, get in the opponents heads and win.

hedevil
04-29-2010, 02:19 PM
Good post.

I'm going to take heat for this one, because the kid is cool, but I'm going to say Curry.

He has a swagger/confidence that I like alot being a Dukie, but if he was a UNC player, I have to admit, I'd think he seemed a little cocky. Seth, if you happen to see this, I'm picking you to be a starter. If they hate you, you're doing something right.:D

hedevil
04-29-2010, 02:21 PM
Curry and Singler

sagegrouse
04-29-2010, 02:30 PM
You never can tell...although I'd argue that this year there was no most hated Dukie. No one was even close to the rancor generated by Laettner, Wojo, Dahntay, Redick or Paulus.

The "hated" guy on that team was Hurley -- mostly because of his Oscar the Grouch expressions. The Danny Ferry taunts -- "Fer-r-r-r-y-y, Fer-r-r-y-y"-- migrated easily and euphonically to "Hur-r-r-l-l-e-e, Hur-r-r-l-l-e-e."

Laettner was a feared rival in the ACC but not a figure around whom a lot of controversy circled. Quite frankly, he looked like a choir boy. It was only later that folks began to perceive that he only seemed that way. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: And, of course, the Kentucky game and the technical foul contributed to the reassessment. But that was his third from last game.

sagegrouse

ivydevil
04-29-2010, 02:31 PM
Yeah, I also think Curry will be the most hated on the team.

CLW
04-29-2010, 02:35 PM
At first, I thought Singler but venturing over to other teams sites recently Curry is getting an awful lot of "heat" for a guy that hasn't played a single second yet for Duke.

The "talking points memo" goes ESPN/MSM worships a guy who can't shoot (sub 40% shooter 2 seasons ago), can't hack it in the big leagues and is living off of his brother's name.

roywhite
04-29-2010, 02:36 PM
In the absence of a really strong "candidate" for this distinction (previous award winners include Hurley, Laettner, Redick, and Paulus), the haters may just go to their trusty default choice:

Mike Krzyzewski

CameronCrazy'11
04-29-2010, 03:02 PM
I don't know why Singler isn't more hated already. He's got the three essential qualities - he's extremely good, cocky, and white.

CEF1959
04-29-2010, 03:05 PM
Definitely good enough; definitely MORE than white enough. Maybe he needs to bump his cockiness up a bit. It's tough for kids from Oregon, with that laid back 'tude. And the guy is just so doggone nice. It's definitely a weakness in his game. But I have confidence that Kyle could pull it off.

But my money is on MP2. I'm waiting for some monster jam (that doesn't bounce off the rim) and a look that says, "That was Mason, with an M." Replayed on SportsCenter over and over, we've got our man.

PADukeMom
04-29-2010, 03:07 PM
Has there ever been a Duke player who wasn't hated by someone?

Greg_Newton
04-29-2010, 03:10 PM
Funny enough, but I don't think Mason will be hated much even if he stays three years and blows up into an All-ACC player. People hate white boys that look and play like they do (style-wise), but they love white boys that can jump and dunk on people.

Even my most boneheaded UNC friends would trash our whole team this year, then grudgingly admit "But that Mason Plumlee is pretty nasty". He scares people!

mattman91
04-29-2010, 03:28 PM
The guy that wins a national championship and named the final four MVP. The guy who comes back to school after winning the NC, when he could have easily been a first round pick. The guy who is an all around baller, and is always diving into the stands. ( not to sound racist but its true....the hated white guy) Most of these reasons would make anybody other than a Dukie a national favorite. but he is a Dukie sooo.....it's Kyle Singler for sure.

mattman91
04-29-2010, 03:29 PM
Has there ever been a Duke player who wasn't hated by someone?

...Not in my house. tons of hate

Duke09
04-29-2010, 03:31 PM
I'm actually surprised Singler isn't more hated. I've seen him talk smack and get physical with players he is guarding/ being guarded by. Most incidents with other teams over the last few years (though there haven't been many and haven't escalated) seem to involve Singler.

Jarhead
04-29-2010, 03:58 PM
Seems as though some folks around here are getting obsessed with the Duke hate issue. Why else would anyone create a thread to discuss future hate? I don't see anyone in our future that would attract such off the wall, irrational emotion. It's a terrible burden to be laying on anyone's shoulders. It's almost as if you people enjoy it.

crimsondevil
04-29-2010, 04:06 PM
A colleague of mine (FSU grad) liked to rag on Duke's "pasty-white" players this year, and for some reason picked out Ryan Kelly as his whipping boy.
I thought it was a little weird - I think he thought of him as the most "unathletic" and "normal" looking (other than being a McD AA and 6'10", of course).

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-29-2010, 04:23 PM
One thing for sure, it's gonna be hard for anyone to hate Nolan.

Big Pappa
04-29-2010, 04:30 PM
A colleague of mine (FSU grad) liked to rag on Duke's "pasty-white" players this year, and for some reason picked out Ryan Kelly as his whipping boy.
I thought it was a little weird - I think he thought of him as the most "unathletic" and "normal" looking (other than being a McD AA and 6'10", of course).

I honestly think it will end up being Mason because of his combination of ability and attitude but I could see it being Ryan in a couple of years, especially the way he can shoot the 3 ball. I can just see him hitting a deep one with a UNC guy in his face then holding up the Lebron 3-point eye-target as he runs back down the floor.

mph
04-29-2010, 04:30 PM
Seems as though some folks around here are getting obsessed with the Duke hate issue. Why else would anyone create a thread to discuss future hate? I don't see anyone in our future that would attract such off the wall, irrational emotion. It's a terrible burden to be laying on anyone's shoulders. It's almost as if you people enjoy it.

Well said. I know it's the offseason, but there's got to be a better way to pass the time than predicting and ranking levels of future hate.

Devil in the Blue Dress
04-29-2010, 04:39 PM
Seems as though some folks around here are getting obsessed with the Duke hate issue. Why else would anyone create a thread to discuss future hate? I don't see anyone in our future that would attract such off the wall, irrational emotion. It's a terrible burden to be laying on anyone's shoulders. It's almost as if you people enjoy it.

I'm with you on this one. Continuing to focus on a negative point of view tends to give it credence. It's also bad karma. I prefer to enjoy the afterglow of multiple national championships in multiple sports. :)

Rich
04-29-2010, 04:52 PM
Has there ever been a Duke player who wasn't hated by someone?

I think Grant Hill comes pretty close. He could play and was all class, on and off the court. Never whined, never taunted. He also seemed to cross any racial barriers.

I'd also put Tommy Amaker in this category as a player, although he has taken heat as a coach.

Big Pappa
04-29-2010, 06:00 PM
Seems as though some folks around here are getting obsessed with the Duke hate issue. Why else would anyone create a thread to discuss future hate? I don't see anyone in our future that would attract such off the wall, irrational emotion. It's a terrible burden to be laying on anyone's shoulders. It's almost as if you people enjoy it.


Well said. I know it's the offseason, but there's got to be a better way to pass the time than predicting and ranking levels of future hate.


I'm with you on this one. Continuing to focus on a negative point of view tends to give it credence. It's also bad karma. I prefer to enjoy the afterglow of multiple national championships in multiple sports. :)

Well I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with all three of you. First, I think it IS entertaining to be hated the way we are and I'm not afraid to say I enjoy it. Neither were many Duke players, "On the road? I'm expecting a lot. But I've learned to deal with that. Fans are hard on me, but I enjoy that and use it to my advantage." said JJ Redick after being asked about being hated be other teams.

Second, it is the offseason and I think we are more hated than we have been in awhile considering the NC. There isn't that much to talk about since recruiting has died down some because of the approach of summer and this is a perfectly viable topic (if you don't think so look at all the posts about it in the Tyler Adams thread).

Third, I don't think karma is real and even if it was why would talking about being hated be bad karma. Are we going to be hated more because we talk about it or less because we don't? The answer is no. Like Coach K said in the Final Four interview this year, "If you want to hate us because we have kids who go to school, graduate, play solid, team ball and win a lot, go ahead."

So if you wanna hate on us for talking about people hating on us, then like Coach K said, "go ahead."

sagegrouse
04-29-2010, 06:31 PM
Well I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with all three of you. First, I think it IS entertaining to be hated the way we are and I'm not afraid to say I enjoy it. Neither were many Duke players, "On the road? I'm expecting a lot. But I've learned to deal with that. Fans are hard on me, but I enjoy that and use it to my advantage." said JJ Redick after being asked about being hated be other teams.



I predict that fans predisposed to dislike Duke will have to cast around for something really stupid to denigrate -- probably a player. The last few years there has been the tut-tut about the Duke team and its lack of success-- "Duke underachieves;" "K has lost it;" "K only cares about the national team;" "Carolina has passed Duke by..." Yadda, yadda!

As it turns out, Duke has won more games than any team over the past ten years, has won as many championships, has run up a 27-8 record in the NCAA tournament, and will likely be preseason #1 for 2011.

Fire away, guys! At Singler, Kelly, Curry, Kyrie, the Crazies, or us alums. We know you're just jealous.

sagegrouse

LSanders
04-29-2010, 07:49 PM
One thing for sure, it's gonna be hard for anyone to hate Nolan.


Amen!!! You'd really have to be of a different (in)breed to hate Nolan!

If you actually care anything about basketball or sport in general, how can you hate Kyle? It's somewhat akin to hating Hansbrough. He frustrated me, and I'm happy he's no longer in poo-blue, but he loved to play and loved competing. How do you hate that? Similar feelings could be expressed for Vasquez and dozens of other such players.

Seth ... Mason ... They seem like such good kids from good families. How do you hate that?

The players I seem to "hate" are ones like Jared Dudley (whose swagger vastly exceeded his talent, IMO) or Joakim Noah (who's one of the most annoying people on Earth).

This team doesn't seem to have anyone like that ... No natural lightening rods.

So ... Just like the championship season MVP ... I'm voting for the whole Duke TEAM to be the most hated.

Mike Corey
04-29-2010, 08:56 PM
Jared Dudley strutted while sitting down.

Joakim Noah's gesticulations seem to annoy everyone.

The perception of Duke basketball is going to evolve. But one thing will stay the same: winning the right way. That may be enough for people to continue maintaining an irrational dislike for Duke, as people will see what they want to see. It happens.

DukeGirl4ever
04-29-2010, 09:08 PM
I think a few people mentioned the words "Kyle" and "cocky" in the same sentence and I've gotta say, I never (not even once) looked at Kyle as cocky. Confident in his ability - YES; Enthusiastic - YES; Serious game face - YES; Cocky??? Not in my eyes.

I can't think of a time when he's had the JJ swagger with the head bobbing after draining a 3, making his little hand gestures with a smirk on his face. Kyle does get pumped up after a big play, but he doesn't rub it in the other team's face. I love JJ, but JJ did that. Mason and Miles did that a few times this year, too.

I know a lot of Duke haters (I'm in NOVA territory) and every single one of them says Singler's tough as nails and they respect him.

Based on that and the fact that I haven't seen much of Curry, I'm going with Mason.

amat1129
04-29-2010, 09:40 PM
It has to be singler, i don't think kyrie will be or nolan, it seems to be that the most hated always has to be a white guy. That said i think the MP's display a certain toughness and attitude that a lot of people will find loathsome once they are featured more.

RoyalBlue08
04-29-2010, 10:02 PM
I think Kyle has a chance to go down as one of the all time most hated as he takes on more of a leadership position this coming year. Mason is a good second choice, but I don't think he gets there unless he is in the discussion for our best player next year (which I find unlilkely, but not impossible). I agree that no one is ever going to hate Nolan. Although I find it shocking that anyone could hate Jon too, but where there is a Maryland fan there is a way I suppose.

northernduke
04-29-2010, 10:57 PM
A colleague of mine (FSU grad) liked to rag on Duke's "pasty-white" players this year, and for some reason picked out Ryan Kelly as his whipping boy.
I thought it was a little weird - I think he thought of him as the most "unathletic" and "normal" looking (other than being a McD AA and 6'10", of course).

A lot of my white friends didn't like Kelly. Not because of anything more than him being a "goofy looking white guy with no athletic ability." I can understand this because he looks like an average kid. He looks like we should be in his seat. I can understand the frustration if you would love to be connected to a big program.

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-29-2010, 11:10 PM
A lot of my white friends didn't like Kelly. Not because of anything more than him being a "goofy looking white guy with no athletic ability." I can understand this because he looks like an average kid. He looks like we should be in his seat. I can understand the frustration if you would love to be connected to a big program.

That makes sense, I can see a lot of hate coming on for Kelly, he just has to earn it on the court first.

TheBrianZoubekExperience
04-30-2010, 12:04 AM
I would guess Singler but if Kelly turns out to be really good I would think it would be Kelly. I remember reading the part about chick flicks in the article below when we had recruited him and thinking he would be fit the hated role pretty easily.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/notebook?page=hallpass/081029

Interesting side note to that article is it had a note about Miles redshirting. Not sure where they got that from.

amat1129
04-30-2010, 12:57 AM
but where there is a Maryland fan there is a way I suppose.

so true

brevity
04-30-2010, 01:14 AM
But one thing will stay the same: winning the right way.

I usually agree with you, but even using the phrase "winning the right way" is a justifiable reason to hate the Blue Devils. Every time Dick Vitale uses it (and it seems to happen a lot), I cringe.

Looking at college basketball in general over time, there are a handful of clear-cut examples of winning the WRONG way. Sharing a hot tub with a bookie, fixing grades or admission scores, paying under the table, trying performance enhancing drugs, creating convenient assistant positions, covering up a player's death, cutting players to free up scholarships, shaving points. But winning the right way? Lots of teams do that. Duke is very good, and occasionally very lucky, but not unique in this regard.

The implication is that "winning the right way" means "winning the ONLY right way." That's what most people are hearing, and it just invites fans that were neutral about us to start hating us. Duke has an incredibly knowledgeable fan base, but they lack savvy to a painful degree.

Back to this thread: I guarantee that whoever becomes the next hated Duke player will handle it better than most of the people here.

Mike Corey
04-30-2010, 01:31 AM
I usually agree with you, but even using the phrase "winning the right way" is a justifiable reason to hate the Blue Devils. Every time Dick Vitale uses it (and it seems to happen a lot), I cringe.

Looking at college basketball in general over time, there are a handful of clear-cut examples of winning the WRONG way. Sharing a hot tub with a bookie, fixing grades or admission scores, paying under the table, trying performance enhancing drugs, creating convenient assistant positions, covering up a player's death, cutting players to free up scholarships, shaving points. But winning the right way? Lots of teams do that. Duke is very good, and occasionally very lucky, but not unique in this regard.

The implication is that "winning the right way" means "winning the ONLY right way." That's what most people are hearing, and it just invites fans that were neutral about us to start hating us. Duke has an incredibly knowledgeable fan base, but they lack savvy to a painful degree.

Back to this thread: I guarantee that whoever becomes the next hated Duke player will handle it better than most of the people here.

You know Brevity, those are great points. I should have qualified my statement with, "I don't believe Duke is the only team that does this, but I think Duke does it as well as anyone."

If not having qualified the statement accordingly made me, um, "unsavvy," then lesson learned. I'll do better next time, amigo/a.

gep
04-30-2010, 01:38 AM
I think a few people mentioned the words "Kyle" and "cocky" in the same sentence and I've gotta say, I never (not even once) looked at Kyle as cocky. Confident in his ability - YES; Enthusiastic - YES; Serious game face - YES; Cocky??? Not in my eyes.

I can't think of a time when he's had the JJ swagger with the head bobbing after draining a 3, making his little hand gestures with a smirk on his face. Kyle does get pumped up after a big play, but he doesn't rub it in the other team's face. I love JJ, but JJ did that. Mason and Miles did that a few times this year, too.

I know a lot of Duke haters (I'm in NOVA territory) and every single one of them says Singler's tough as nails and they respect him.

Based on that and the fact that I haven't seen much of Curry, I'm going with Mason.

As I read through this thread, I also agree that Kyle is not the type to become that "lightening rod" of "Duke hate". He just doesn't have that body language that evokes that emotion. Confident, Serious, Enthusiastic, Competitive... YES. But, as you say, not "cocky", no "swagger"...

Anyway, I hope Mason, Miles, Ryan... keep the "cockiness" and "swagger" out of their games. As they say, let their "play" speak for themselves...:) I think Miles did that for most of the season... I don't think Ryan did anything of note... and Mason, well, he's got "potential":D

flyingdutchdevil
04-30-2010, 07:56 AM
While Singler definitely fits the bill of the next hated Duke player (really good, white, cocky as hell, has that smile that opposing fans hate, very expressive), I'm not sure if he'll get a chance to be hated. He's only at Duke for another year, and I think that the Duke-hating fan base (here's to looking at you, Maryland) will want to hate on someone for more than 1 year.

I think the next target could be Mason. If he has a stellar year, gets cocky (which I would love. Being cocky is great. And I disagree with those who think it doesn't represent the school well or is disrespectful), and has a few nasty dunks on Jordan Williams, he'll be the next target.

It can't be Nolan because he's too fun-lovin. Can't be Seth because every one loves his brother. Can't be Andre because he looks like he's still in middle school. Can't be R. Kelly because I'm not too sure if he'll get to play enough this year to gain that reputation. Can't be Kyrie because uber-talented PGs that have the potential to take over a game are rarely hated (was JWill really hated or merely frightened fan bases with his ability? I'd take the later. JJ was both HATED and frightened fan bases). Can't be Carrick, Hairston, or Thornton because they're too unknown.

I think it comes down to Singler, or the Brothers Plumlee. But with the Brothers Plumlee, opposing fans may get them confused and hating two players is just too much work for them.

Basically, America has a dilemma - who do they hate?

Indoor66
04-30-2010, 09:05 AM
Basically, America has a dilemma - who do they hate?

This is kinda like finding nicknames and successful restaurants ... they tend to drift to the top and reveal themselves.

Saratoga2
04-30-2010, 09:20 AM
There is nothing much left to talk about except new recruits, next years lineups and perhaps awards for achievement this past year. Threads like this one pop up for lack of anything better to do. Go to it.

MCFinARL
04-30-2010, 09:52 AM
I usually agree with you, but even using the phrase "winning the right way" is a justifiable reason to hate the Blue Devils. Every time Dick Vitale uses it (and it seems to happen a lot), I cringe.

Looking at college basketball in general over time, there are a handful of clear-cut examples of winning the WRONG way. Sharing a hot tub with a bookie, fixing grades or admission scores, paying under the table, trying performance enhancing drugs, creating convenient assistant positions, covering up a player's death, cutting players to free up scholarships, shaving points. But winning the right way? Lots of teams do that. Duke is very good, and occasionally very lucky, but not unique in this regard.



I agree with you here, especially about the impact of Dickie V's hyper-praise of Duke's virtue. It's easy to see how people could start thinking of Duke and Duke fans as smug, self-satisfied and self-righteous after a steady diet of that, because of course you are right--there are lots of programs that "win the right way."

That being said, if Duke fans on a Duke site want to take some pride in the fact that the program "wins the right way," I think they are entitled--as long as everyone maintains a little perspective.

Big Pappa
04-30-2010, 02:15 PM
Looking at college basketball in general over time, there are a handful of clear-cut examples of winning the WRONG way. Sharing a hot tub with a bookie, fixing grades or admission scores, paying under the table, trying performance enhancing drugs, creating convenient assistant positions, covering up a player's death, cutting players to free up scholarships, shaving points. But winning the right way? Lots of teams do that. Duke is very good, and occasionally very lucky, but not unique in this regard.


I disagree much of your post but lets focus on you saying that "lots" of team win the right way. First of all, "lots" of teams don't win very much at all. There are 347 Division 1 basketball teams and only 35 of them have ever won an NCAA Championship. In fact, only 6 teams have won it more than twice.

Second, many teams who are successful year after year, or at least have been, have been cited with NCAA violations, just off the top of my head: Kentucky, Arizona, UConn, Indiana.

Coach K is the one that said in the Final Four interview, "If you want to hate us because we have kids who go to school, graduate, play solid, team ball and win a lot, go ahead." Basically saying that we do things the right way and he doesn't care if people hate us for it.