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roywhite
04-28-2010, 05:04 PM
per NC State rivals site

http://ncstate.rivals.com/default.asp

Huge get for the Pack and a loss for Kentucky.

airowe
04-28-2010, 05:05 PM
Good for the Pack. Big Three is back? Where's the fourth?

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-28-2010, 05:06 PM
Great I would have hated to see him go to UK, but Nc State is going ot be great next year. Not better than Duke of course

JasonEvans
04-28-2010, 05:08 PM
Great I would have hated to see him go to UK, but Nc State is going ot be great next year. Not better than Duke of course

What is your definition of "great."

I think State is going to be in the top half of the ACC and make the big dance (which just got bigger), I suppose that is great by El Sid's standards. But, I see them behind Duke, UNC, and Va Tech (at least) in the ACC next year.

-Jason "Sid keeps on coming close but then saving his job" Evans

Duvall
04-28-2010, 05:12 PM
What is your definition of "great."

I think State is going to be in the top half of the ACC and make the big dance (which just got bigger), I suppose that is great by El Sid's standards. But, I see them behind Duke, UNC, and Va Tech (at least) in the ACC next year.

At least? Who else *is* there?

blueprofessor
04-28-2010, 05:14 PM
Good for CJL.

Did not want to use the "S****" word.
Best--Blueprofessor:)

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-28-2010, 05:14 PM
What is your definition of "great."

I think State is going to be in the top half of the ACC and make the big dance (which just got bigger), I suppose that is great by El Sid's standards. But, I see them behind Duke, UNC, and Va Tech (at least) in the ACC next year.

-Jason "Sid keeps on coming close but then saving his job" Evans

Well yeah maybe I overstated the word "GREAT" but I do think they are going to be one of the top teams in the acc next year.

hedevil
04-28-2010, 05:16 PM
Huge get for State.

This kid has a huge upside. Super athlete!

I'm glad to see Kenucky miss him.

I actually like to see the ACC stay competitive.

wilko
04-28-2010, 05:18 PM
Wow!! good for State.

jipops
04-28-2010, 05:20 PM
A great get for the ACC.

CDu
04-28-2010, 05:24 PM
Wow, if that's true, it is huge. I really didn't anticipate that at all. Good for State, and good for the strength of the ACC. That team now looks very interesting.

The question now becomes whether or not Lowe can do a better job of mixing egos with the seniors (Smith and Gonzalez) and the freshmen (Harrow, Brown, and Leslie) than he did with Hickson and Fells/Costner/McCauley. At least this time he doesn't have the "these weren't my recruits" problem to worry about.

If it's true that Leslie has committed, Lowe now has a chance to really solidify himself in the NC State job. He's finally had the home run recruiting class that is competitive with Duke and UNC. Of course, the flip side is that he now has to put up or shut up.

wilko
04-28-2010, 05:37 PM
I just hope that they will stop rolling over for UNC.
It would be nice if they snake-bit them once in a while instead of saving it ALL for us.

Wolfpack fans finally have a reason for hope and tingly feel good moment?
Surely we are in the final days. No way this works out well.

davekay1971
04-28-2010, 05:49 PM
I am thrilled for Sid and NCSU! Great news for them and for the ACC. The chemistry question is there but I think won't be as big of an issue. Bottom line: they're all Sid's players now, and the best talent is the young talent. Gonzalez and Mays are probably going to sit behind Harrow, but they'll see time and have their opportunities. Smith ought to be excited that there's finally going to be a driver in Harrow to feed him easy looks, and outside shooting to open up the lane for him. Between Smith, Howell, and Brown, they're going to have a good front line. Between Harrow, Wood, and Leslie they're going to have some serious talent on the perimeter. No one in the ACC should knock Duke out of the top spot this year, but State has the talent to push UNC and Va Tech in the 2nd tier.

ChicagoCrazy84
04-28-2010, 06:06 PM
NC State is back, wow!! I see no reason why State can't be 3rd or 4th in the ACC next year. The conference as a whole will be much better, but based on the amount of talent they have, they can get it done. Great point by an earlier poster saying this is do or die now for Mr. Lowe. He better get it done or he IS done. Im so excited for nest season, but nervous! So many teams will be knocking on the door for the top of the conference.

My early prediction is that 12-4 wins.

Duvall
04-28-2010, 06:09 PM
If it's true that Leslie has committed, Lowe now has a chance to really solidify himself in the NC State job.

I knew there was a downside to this.

airowe
04-28-2010, 06:15 PM
http://thedailybite.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/kool-aid-man.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_wn2Wafc_Np0/Rx9l2WLilmI/AAAAAAAAAYM/CIzcIrnLs3w/s400/loweblazer.jpg

Slackerb
04-28-2010, 06:15 PM
I am thrilled for Sid and NCSU! Great news for them and for the ACC. The chemistry question is there but I think won't be as big of an issue. Bottom line: they're all Sid's players now, and the best talent is the young talent. Gonzalez and Mays are probably going to sit behind Harrow, but they'll see time and have their opportunities. Smith ought to be excited that there's finally going to be a driver in Harrow to feed him easy looks, and outside shooting to open up the lane for him. Between Smith, Howell, and Brown, they're going to have a good front line. Between Harrow, Wood, and Leslie they're going to have some serious talent on the perimeter. No one in the ACC should knock Duke out of the top spot this year, but State has the talent to push UNC and Va Tech in the 2nd tier.

Dave, a few points:

Mays is gone. He transfered. Harrow will run the point with Javi backing him up. Brown is not a front-line player...he's the 5* SG with this class.

Here's the new lineup in my opinion:
PG: 5*Harrow, 3*Javi
SG: 5*Brown/3*Williams
SF: 5*Leslie/3*Wood
PF: 4*Howell/4*Painter
C: 4*Smith/2*Vandenburg



On another note, everyone's favorite tool couldn't help but weigh in after predicting that CJ Leslie was a lock for Kentucky. In response to someone questioning him via twitter, he responded with:



@KySportsRadio No idea what you might be $aying. Or what I'm $aying

You stay classy Greg Doyel

http://twitter.com/greggdoyelcbs

OZZIE4DUKE
04-28-2010, 06:16 PM
Good for State! Now all they have to do is win. Sidney, you might find the heat gets turned up a bit if you don't.

And as what'shisname, oh, yeah, Adam Gold, just said on the radio. Great, now show me next year's recruiting class and the one after that. Build a program (just like Coach Cut is doing!).

ElSid
04-28-2010, 06:21 PM
FYI. My moniker has nothing to do with the coach. I am not going for "El Sid", the oft used nickname on this site and elsewhere. It's a personal nickname. Hmm, these State posts are going to get confusing for me.

Having cleared that up...is Kentucky really feeling the sting of this? Seems like they have an embarrassment of riches already. I mean, any five star recruit is a potential superstar, but it seems like UK was well stocked already.

I'm thrilled he's coming to State. For now. Until he starts looking all awesome against us and giving me heartburn in games. Great for the ACC though.

As for other competitive teams, can't Miami pull something together? They're losing Dews, Collins, McGowan, Thomas. Durand Scott is back. He was a nasty frosh. I expect Miami to have a chance to be fairly competitive. That said, Haith doesn't really inspire me as a coach. VaTech will be good. Wake is a big ?.

Ga. Tech? Not sure either. Do we have an ACC 2010/11 preview thread?

airowe
04-28-2010, 06:22 PM
Having cleared that up...is Kentucky really feeling the sting of this? Seems like they have an embarrassment of riches already. I mean, any five star recruit is a potential superstar, but it seems like UK was well stocked already.


Yes, they basically have nobody to play PF for them if Terrence Jones doesn't commit to them on Friday or if by some miracle Daniel Orton decides to return to school.

ElSid
04-28-2010, 06:25 PM
Yes, they basically have nobody to play PF for them if Terrence Jones doesn't commit to them on Friday or if by some miracle Daniel Orton decides to return to school.

that's great news.

i think orton would be smart to come back. he probably won't.

Newton_14
04-28-2010, 07:28 PM
Good catch for State. The local rumor mill ended up being right on this one. When the other kid reneged on his verbal a few weeks back (sorry I cannot recall his name at the moment) it was considered an indicator that Leslie was coming to State. Glad to see it work out that way.

I think Leslie starts at the 4 over Howell with Wood starting at the 3. I can't see Wood getting knocked out of the starting line up and Leslie will start for sure. I think they go Smith, Leslie, and Wood, with Harrow and Brown. And bring Howell off the bench. The Williams kid will challenge for minutes at the 2 as well.

State should be much improved and should finish in the top 4 of the ACC and may even challenge for the 2nd spot. For Sid's sake, I hope so. Otherwise he might not be around much longer.

kingboozer
04-28-2010, 07:38 PM
good for state, i'm all for tobacco road to come back to its glory, wonder if jeff bzdelik will make some noise at wake?

LSanders
04-28-2010, 07:58 PM
I'm glad to see Kenucky miss him.

I actually like to see the ACC stay competitive.



Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamen!!!

Still not sure what El Sid's upside is, but I'd like to see him make State consistently competitive again.

jlear
04-28-2010, 08:02 PM
Good for State and good for the ACC.

CDu
04-28-2010, 08:23 PM
Good catch for State. The local rumor mill ended up being right on this one. When the other kid reneged on his verbal a few weeks back (sorry I cannot recall his name at the moment) it was considered an indicator that Leslie was coming to State. Glad to see it work out that way.

I think Leslie starts at the 4 over Howell with Wood starting at the 3. I can't see Wood getting knocked out of the starting line up and Leslie will start for sure. I think they go Smith, Leslie, and Wood, with Harrow and Brown. And bring Howell off the bench. The Williams kid will challenge for minutes at the 2 as well.

That would be my guess as well, although I could see Lowe going with a dual PG look with Harrow and the senior Gonzalez starting and Brown coming off the bench.

But I do see Wood at the 3 and Leslie at the 4. Howell has shown some promise, but he hasn't shown the kind of consistency to to be a starter. Wood can spread the floor while Leslie could be an impact player at the 4.

yancem
04-28-2010, 08:30 PM
The question now becomes whether or not Lowe can do a better job of mixing egos with the seniors (Smith and Gonzalez) and the freshmen (Harrow, Brown, and Leslie) than he did with Hickson and Fells/Costner/McCauley. At least this time he doesn't have the "these weren't my recruits" problem to worry about.

This was my first thought as well. State certainly will be more talented, so now they have to develop decent chemistry and put together some w's.

Glad to see the acc win a recruiting battle over KY!

Newton_14
04-28-2010, 09:06 PM
This was my first thought as well. State certainly will be more talented, so now they have to develop decent chemistry and put together some w's.

Glad to see the acc win a recruiting battle over KY!

I think chemistry will be less of an issue than when Hickson was there. For one, Smith and Leslie supposedly have a good relationship, and Smith was the most outspoken about the chemistry issues back then. I think as the Senior leader, Smith will lead those guys and squelch any whining from upperclassmen.

The wildcard in that will be Javi. Like CDu mentioned, Sid could go with both Javi and Harrow in the backcourt with Brown and Williams off the bench. If Javi were to take a signifcant hit in mpg I could see him taking issue with it and maybe causing a stink.

I would expect though that this time around, Lowe handles the chemistry issues better and avoids the troubles the 08 team had.

CDu
04-28-2010, 10:00 PM
I think chemistry will be less of an issue than when Hickson was there. For one, Smith and Leslie supposedly have a good relationship, and Smith was the most outspoken about the chemistry issues back then. I think as the Senior leader, Smith will lead those guys and squelch any whining from upperclassmen.

The wildcard in that will be Javi. Like CDu mentioned, Sid could go with both Javi and Harrow in the backcourt with Brown and Williams off the bench. If Javi were to take a signifcant hit in mpg I could see him taking issue with it and maybe causing a stink.

I would expect though that this time around, Lowe handles the chemistry issues better and avoids the troubles the 08 team had.

I agree that chemistry is less likely to be an issue, for all the reasons you mention. In addition, part of the problem with the Hickson year was that Hickson had to supplant one of two upperclassmen starters (Costner or McCauley). Leslie will come in and compete with two backups in Howell and Painter. And unlike Hickson and McCauley (who basically couldn't play at the same time), Leslie seems to complement Howell and Smith fairly well.

I also agree that Gonzalez is the bigger concern. The guy has established himself as the heart of that team, and he'll be a senior who started last year and a lot as a sophomore. That's the main reason why I would probably expect him to start with Harrow (at least early in the season). I think Lowe will know better this time than to displace the senior. Unless Brown and Harrow perform so well that it's clear that Gonzalez should be benched, I think Gonzalez will start.

That said, Lowe could have seven ACC-quality players, and (perhaps just as importantly) two quality PG, in the rotation. The last few years, he's had a few horses, but just not enough to really compete. Now that he should have some depth and talent, let's see if he can coach.

Newton_14
04-28-2010, 10:41 PM
Here is Leslie on Leslie and the future of State basketball.
http://www.highschoolhoop.com/recruiting-news/2010/04/cj-leslie-diary-decision-time/

Pretty funny. He is a natural comedian and likely the best "quote guy" on the team since Julius Hodge, speaking of whom, gave another "Jules" classic quote today on the Adam Gold show.

Speaking of Leslie's decision between UK and State, Hodge says "Yeah, it basically came down to good verses evil and fortunately for us good won out"

I love that guy...

muzikfrk75
04-28-2010, 11:12 PM
This is awesome for NC State. :)

However, Sid now has NO excuses...

ScreechTDX1847
04-29-2010, 08:34 AM
Sweet. Now Sidney can figure out how to stunt this kid's growth as a basketball player and we can watch as Sidney becomes confused and frustrated as he struggles with how to use the talent he has.

I rarely say this about any new recruit; but this kid is gone after a year at NCSU...I would be too.

Nonetheless, I am glad the ACC has brought in some more talent.:p

I can't wait to see NCSU finish 8th in the standings.:D

Slackerb
04-29-2010, 09:06 AM
^Wow

Leslie guarding Singler could be a nightmare next year. Kyle's amazing, but is bothered by opponents with more height and athleticism....

I think initally, Javi will run the point, but it won't be long before Harrow takes over. He's legit.

The underrated player here is Brown. He's a complete SG, with a good outside shoot, good ball handling skills, and good athleticism. He's similar to Nolan I think.

dukeballboy88
04-29-2010, 09:09 AM
they just bumped unc down a spot in the final acc standings.

papa whiskey
04-29-2010, 09:29 AM
they just bumped unc down a spot in the final acc standings.

Not likely.

elvis14
04-29-2010, 09:35 AM
I'm really happy to hear that CJL is going to State. I have so many friends that are State fans and I respect them for sticking with their team. It would be good for the ACC if State got stronger. I'd love to see State get more competitive and for UNC to continue to suck, big time. Best of both worlds would be a competitive ACC and UNC sucking. Add in NCSU being better than UNC and the Triangle is a better place to live.

davekay1971
04-29-2010, 09:38 AM
Don't want to get too geeked up over recruits, because we never know exactly how they're going to perform at the ACC level, but...

This class fills in State's needs nicely. Gonzalez is a warrior, but just isn't an ACC level talent at the point, and Harrow fills that need beautifully. Brown is the real deal at the 2, and consistent 3 point shooting has been lacking for the Pack. As sweet as Wood's shot is, he wasn't able to find much open space when teams keyed on him, and he could be shut down relatively easily. His output should improve with Harrow being able to penetrate the lane and dish, and teams having to focus on guarding Brown and Leslie on the perimeter. Leslie will be able to work both inside and out and should be able to work one on one with teams having to respect Brown, Wood, and stay at home on Smith. Howell will even find more easy looks, with teams unable to collapse as much on the interior. In fact, if Leslie, Brown, and Harrow are all able to contribue (a big if, granted), a lineup featureing those 3 guys at the 1-2-3 and Howell and Smith on the interior (or move Leslie to the 4 in place of Howell and have Wood at the 3) will give State a linup that can score from any position, something they've never had under Lowe.

Duke12
04-29-2010, 10:23 AM
I am tired of the Heels starting the season 2-0 while we have to gut it out with Maryland twice. Maybe this helps level the playing field.

Slackerb
04-30-2010, 09:35 AM
Could be the best week ever for the Wolfpack:

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/ncsu/story/7516430/

DevilHorns
04-30-2010, 09:45 AM
Good for State! I hope they reappear as an ACC strength (as back in the J. Hodge days).

And at the same time, hell ya that Cal didn't get him!

El_Diablo
04-30-2010, 10:02 AM
Andy Katz:

"I spoke with C.J. Leslie Wednesday night, and he said that teams did negatively recruit against NC State but that he didn't buy any of it. He said he had been around the Wolfpack program and knew that coach Sidney Lowe is safe for next season. Leslie said that his joining incoming freshmen Ryan Harrow and Lorenzo Brown gives the Wolfpack a terrific class. I concur. The Wolfpack should have one of the top three recruiting classes in the ACC, which should make NC State a possible top-5 team in the league next season."

JasonEvans
04-30-2010, 02:42 PM
Andy Katz:

"I spoke with C.J. Leslie Wednesday night, and he said that teams did negatively recruit against NC State but that he didn't buy any of it. He said he had been around the Wolfpack program and knew that coach Sidney Lowe is safe for next season. Leslie said that his joining incoming freshmen Ryan Harrow and Lorenzo Brown gives the Wolfpack a terrific class. I concur. The Wolfpack should have one of the top three recruiting classes in the ACC, which should make NC State a possible top-5 team in the league next season."

Top 3 in the ACC in recruiting class = third out of 3 teams in the triangle

Top 5 in the ACC next year = third out of 3 teams in the triangle

--Jason "it ain't easy being State" Evans

Slackerb
04-30-2010, 03:32 PM
Actually, I'd argue that State definitely has the better recruiting class this year than Duke. I'd rank them UNC, State, Duke.

"The Wolfpack should have one of the top three recruiting classes in the ACC"

Not sure where the "should" is coming from....

roywhite
04-30-2010, 03:36 PM
Actually, I'd argue that State definitely has the better recruiting class this year than Duke. I'd rank them UNC, State, Duke.

"The Wolfpack should have one of the top three recruiting classes in the ACC"

Not sure where the "should" is coming from....

Are you including Seth Curry and Carrick Felix in the Duke class? If not, how would that change your evaluation?

Duvall
04-30-2010, 03:36 PM
Actually, I'd argue that State definitely has the better recruiting class this year than Duke. I'd rank them UNC, State, Duke.

"The Wolfpack should have one of the top three recruiting classes in the ACC"

Not sure where the "should" is coming from....

Probably doesn't mean anything, but grades could be a reason. Have Brown and Leslie qualified?

arnie
04-30-2010, 03:41 PM
Top 3 in the ACC in recruiting class = third out of 3 teams in the triangle

Top 5 in the ACC next year = third out of 3 teams in the triangle

--Jason "it ain't easy being State" Evans

Caught an interview with Harrow yesterday, and "she" says the team will have Final 4 and top 5 talent next year. The announcer and Harrow compared recruiting classes at State and UNC, with no mention of Duke whatsoever (either wrt to recruiting or ACC competition).

I must have only dreamed we won the whole thing in 2010.

Slackerb
04-30-2010, 03:50 PM
^Maybe that's because Duke being competitive is a foregone conclusion, as opposed to State and UNC, who were both in the bottom half of the conference. Big difference there next year for those two teams, and worth debating. Duke's ability to compete is not noteworthy.

To above: my rankings do include Felix but not Curry.....transfers are rarely, if ever, included in recruiting discussions. JuCo players are included.

Also worth noting that State still has one scholarship open after Mays officially transfers. TaShawn Mabry likely will fill it....and while not an elite talent....he's an addition.

Once they add him...would the rankings change?

SuperTurkey
04-30-2010, 07:00 PM
Jones picked UW over Kentucky, KU, and co.

RoyalBlue08
04-30-2010, 07:43 PM
I've seen alot of reports questioning the work ethic and maturity of this kid (much like Cousins from last season). I share the sentiment of many of the posters here that I would like to see NC State improve its basketball program, but it seems to me that a one and done kid with attitude problems is just as likely to get a coach fired as it is to save his job. I think the NC State fans that think their program "is back" because of this signing are being very optimistic.

Newton_14
04-30-2010, 07:55 PM
^Maybe that's because Duke being competitive is a foregone conclusion, as opposed to State and UNC, who were both in the bottom half of the conference. Big difference there next year for those two teams, and worth debating. Duke's ability to compete is not noteworthy.

To above: my rankings do include Felix but not Curry.....transfers are rarely, if ever, included in recruiting discussions. JuCo players are included.

Also worth noting that State still has one scholarship open after Mays officially transfers. TaShawn Mabry likely will fill it....and while not an elite talent....he's an addition.

Once they add him...would the rankings change?

Whether transfers are "officially" counted or not is really semantics. The fact is Duke will have 5 new players in Irving, Curry, Hairston, Felix, and Thornton. I will rank those 5 above State's, and Chapel Hill's new players all day long.

You can call Irving, HB, and Leslie a wash. I like the rest of Duke's kids over the rest of the other 2's kids.

I also give State the nod over chapel hill as Leslie and Brown equal out with HB and Bullock, and Harrow vs Marshall is not even close.

All 3 classes are good. That we all can agree on.

kingboozer
05-01-2010, 12:22 PM
they just bumped unc down a spot in the final acc standings.

we can only dream they have another train wreck season. i think all that time in the tanning bed is starting to get to 'ol roy

Indoor66
05-01-2010, 12:39 PM
we can only dream they have another train wreck season. i think all that time in the tanning bed is starting to get to 'ol roy

Maybe the new Tanning Bed Tax is getting to Huck.

devildeac
05-01-2010, 01:51 PM
Jones picked UW over Kentucky, KU, and co.

Maybe Cal can continue to call Leslie after he further harrasses the new UW recruit.:rolleyes:

Slackerb
05-03-2010, 02:13 PM
Also keep in mind that State isn't finished....

They still have another scholly opening up after Mays transfers and plan to use it on Tashawn Mabry I believe, who as we all know, is a recruit similar to Felix.

If they get him, even if you include Curry in recruiting, that may still put State on top for recruiting IMO.

PG: Irving=Harrow=Marshall
SG: Bullock=Curry=Brown
SF: Barnes=Leslie(Advantage UNC/State)
SF: Felix=Mabry (Advantage Duke/State)

The only debate IMO is would you rather have Curry, Leslie, or Barnes. I'd say Barnes/Leslie are bigger/better "recruits" than Curry (who, keep in mind was a 2 star).

All that being said, it's all stars and recruiting, and we'll see who shakes out.

Duvall
05-03-2010, 02:19 PM
PG: Irving=Harrow=Marshall.

That's certainly a unique opinion.

Duke of Nashville
05-03-2010, 02:25 PM
Also keep in mind that State isn't finished....


PG: Irving=Harrow=Marshall

I want what he is having.

airowe
05-03-2010, 02:45 PM
PG: Irving=Harrow=Marshall
SG: Bullock=Curry=Brown
SF: Barnes=Leslie(Advantage UNC/State)
SF: Felix=Mabry (Advantage Duke/State)


Huh?

Where is Josh Hairston in all of this? He has to be equal or better than Felix and/or Mabry, correct?

Also, CJ Leslie is more of a PF than a SF...

Slackerb
05-03-2010, 03:19 PM
Revised (I counted Curry twice and forgot Hairston really):

PG: Irving=Harrow=Marshall
SG: Bullock=Hairston=Brown
SF: Barnes=Leslie(Advantage UNC/State)
SF: Felix=Mabry (Advantage Duke/State)

The only debate IMO is would you rather have Curry, Leslie, or Barnes. I'd say Barnes/Leslie are bigger/better "recruits" than Curry (who, keep in mind was a 2 star).

Leslie is a "PF", but will likely play lots of SF at State. And really this is just a rough positional comparison.



Irving=Harrow=Marshall - They are all 5* PGs, rated 2,8,5 by Scout.com, rated 2,6,9 by Rivals. They are more equal than my SG comparison of Bullock, Brown, and Hairston, and by some recruiting accounts Mabry would actually be ranked higher than Felix. So I was just roughly comparing based on rough star ratings, etc.


It's really whether or not you'd rather have 5 recruits that average 4 stars, 4 recruits that average 4.5 stars, or 3 recruits that average 5 stars, (which is exactly what Duke, State, and UNC are respectively IF you assume Curry is equivalent to a 5*).

And I'm assuming you can count Curry, which you can't for "recruiting", and that Curry is a 5 star equivalent player, which he *may* be, and that State picks up Mabry, which seems likely).

airowe
05-03-2010, 03:42 PM
Since when is Hairston a SG? He's 6'9" 225 lbs.

Duke of Nashville
05-03-2010, 04:07 PM
Revised (I counted Curry twice and forgot Hairston really):

PG: Irving=Harrow=Marshall
SG: Bullock=Hairston=Brown
SF: Barnes=Leslie(Advantage UNC/State)
SF: Felix=Mabry (Advantage Duke/State)




Irving=Harrow=Marshall - They are all 5* PGs, rated 2,8,5 by Scout.com, rated 2,6,9 by Rivals. They are more equal than my SG comparison of Bullock, Brown, and Hairston, and by some recruiting accounts Mabry would actually be ranked higher than Felix. So I was just roughly comparing based on rough star ratings, etc.



Oh, ok that pretty much sums it up for me.....:confused:

What you are looking at is purely just at the PG position in rankings and may validate your point in a way. But if you look at the overall rankings:

Scout-
Irving: 6
Marshall: 19
Harrow: 25

Rivals-
Irving:4
Marshall:32
Harrow: 19

You get a better feel as to wear the player stands amongst his class and not just his position. I understand that is how you labeled them out but as you may know we don't go by postitions anyway...And Irving seems to be a bit more consistant on his rankings; ratings; and analysis from other sources compared to the other PG's in the class.

Slackerb
05-03-2010, 04:22 PM
Ok, bear with me, apparently wasn't thinking today very clearly.


Based on Stars (assuming Curry is a 5*, and that Felix and Mabry are roughly the same, i.e nonfactors for the short-term):
PG: Irving=Harrow=Marshall
SG: Bullock=Brown=Curry
SF: Barnes=Leslie>Hairston(Advantage UNC/State)
SF: Felix=Mabry (Advantage Duke/State)

Tyler Thornton gets left out of the comparison, but he's not a real impact player for the short term either....but that does help Duke's cause.


It's really whether or not you'd rather have 5 recruits that average 4 stars, 4 recruits that average 4.5 stars, or 3 recruits that average 5 stars, (which is exactly what Duke, State, and UNC are respectively IF you assume Curry is equivalent to a 5*).

airowe
05-03-2010, 05:02 PM
Thornton played Marshall to a virtual draw during their High School Days.

Irving broke Marshall's ankles in a practice at the McDAA's theother day and is widely regarded to be the best PG prospect in the nation, having skyrocketed in the rankings this year.

Marshall has steadily fallen in the rankings since his Freshman Year when he was considered to be the #1 player in the country regardless of position.

Curry is now in his 3rd year in college and was the country's leading scorer as a Freshman, often scoring over 220 ppg against high-major D-1 talent.

Bullock has been dominating 2A Eastern NC talent this past year.

I'll take our backcourt arrivals any day of the week.

jimsumner
05-03-2010, 05:35 PM
"Curry is now in his 3rd year in college and was the country's leading scorer as a Freshman, often scoring over 220 ppg against high-major D-1 talent."

Yes, but those ACC defenders should be able to hold Curry under 150 ppg.

Duke of Nashville
05-03-2010, 05:37 PM
"Curry is now in his 3rd year in college and was the country's leading scorer as a Freshman, often scoring over 220 ppg against high-major D-1 talent."

Yes, but those ACC defenders should be able to hold Curry under 150 ppg.

Overachiever are we? Let's not get carried away....125 ppg.

dball
05-03-2010, 05:48 PM
Overachiever are we? Let's not get carried away....125 ppg.

You're right. Be very surprised if he averages over 100 though one can always hope.:)

Slackerb
05-04-2010, 08:26 AM
No mention or criticism of State's players? I was wagering that they'd be the best incoming class if they pick up Mabry.

Like I said, I concede that when talking about stars and rankings, it's very sbjective and often flat out wrong. But at least you can talk about it 5 months before scrimmages start.

airowe
05-04-2010, 08:45 AM
No mention or criticism of State's players? I was wagering that they'd be the best incoming class if they pick up Mabry.

Like I said, I concede that when talking about stars and rankings, it's very sbjective and often flat out wrong. But at least you can talk about it 5 months before scrimmages start.

I could talk about how Ryan Harrow is very undersized and wonder aloud whether his body will be able to withstand contact. I could also talk about how his game may be best suited for the And 1 Circuit than a structured halfcourt offense.

I could talk about CJ Leslie's reputation as a me-first player and who has been known to give up in AAU and high school games when he wasn't getting the ball as much as he'd like.

I could talk about Lo Brown, but I honestly don't know much about him at all.

All I will say is that overall I like our guys the best. If I were to rank the guys you included, I would take all our guys first.

devildeac
05-04-2010, 09:17 AM
Thornton played Marshall to a virtual draw during their High School Days.

Irving broke Marshall's ankles in a practice at the McDAA's theother day and is widely regarded to be the best PG prospect in the nation, having skyrocketed in the rankings this year.

Marshall has steadily fallen in the rankings since his Freshman Year when he was considered to be the #1 player in the country regardless of position.

Curry is now in his 3rd year in college and was the country's leading scorer as a Freshman, often scoring over 220 ppg against high-major D-1 talent.

Bullock has been dominating 2A Eastern NC talent this past year.

I'll take our backcourt arrivals any day of the week.


"Curry is now in his 3rd year in college and was the country's leading scorer as a Freshman, often scoring over 220 ppg against high-major D-1 talent."

Yes, but those ACC defenders should be able to hold Curry under 150 ppg.


Overachiever are we? Let's not get carried away....125 ppg.


You're right. Be very surprised if he averages over 100 though one can always hope.:)

Ahh, the fun we have with typos here on the DBR.

At almost any of those ppg paces, we should be able to retire his jersey after he is NPOY, graduates next May and we win our 5th NC.:rolleyes::D

CDu
05-04-2010, 09:41 AM
All I will say is that overall I like our guys the best. If I were to rank the guys you included, I would take all our guys first.

I'd take Barnes over all of those guys except Irving.

airowe
05-04-2010, 09:55 AM
I'd take Barnes over all of those guys except Irving.

It guess it depends on what you're trying to do. If Singler was gone, I'd say absolutely. But, now that he's back I'm very happy that we have Josh who can play down low when needed, especially given the Plumlee's propensity to get in foul trouble. Seth has me very excited as he gives us depth at both guard positions. Carrick fills a need as a practice guy who will make Kyle better and a stopgap defender. Irving is the #1 PG in the country, no-brainer. Tyler will provide depth in the backcourt as well.

I guess what I'm saying is, for this team next year, I think our guys are a perfect fit. If you're trying to fill out a fantasy team, Barnes is an early pick. I'm not sure he would have been the best addition to this team though.

flyingdutchdevil
05-04-2010, 09:58 AM
I guess what I'm saying is, for this team next year, I think our guys are a perfect fit. If you're trying to fill out a fantasy team, Barnes is an early pick. I'm not sure he would have been the best addition to this team though.

Coach K's countless months of recruiting Barnes would suggest otherwise.

Barnes is a great player but, as your post suggested, he would be a luxury on next year's team rather than a necessity.

That said, I'd happily take Barnes any day of the week.

airowe
05-04-2010, 10:18 AM
Coach K's countless months of recruiting Barnes would suggest otherwise.

Barnes is a great player but, as your post suggested, he would be a luxury on next year's team rather than a necessity.

That said, I'd happily take Barnes any day of the week.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Coach K thought Kyle was going pro during those countless hours of recruiting.

I'm not discounting how good of a player Barnes is/can be. Just saying I'll take our guys any day of the week. If Barnes goes pro after a year and Felix and Hairston steadily improve over 3-4 years, who's the better recruit?

Duvall
05-04-2010, 10:38 AM
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Coach K thought Kyle was going pro during those countless hours of recruiting.

I'm not discounting how good of a player Barnes is/can be. Just saying I'll take our guys any day of the week. If Barnes goes pro after a year and Felix and Hairston steadily improve over 3-4 years, who's the better recruit?

Depends on what he does in that year. A team with a lineup of Irving, Smith, Barnes, Singler and the Plumlee of your choice would probably have gone undefeated. And that would have been nice.

Moot now though.

flyingdutchdevil
05-04-2010, 10:53 AM
If Barnes goes pro after a year and Felix and Hairston steadily improve over 3-4 years, who's the better recruit?

If Barnes leads UNC to a title, then Barnes. The exact same thing can be said of Kyrie over Marshall (or, for heaven's sack, LDII!) - Kyrie can easily go pro after this year and is as likely as Barnes to do so. As a matter of fact, I see the two kids to be nearly identical - smart, humble, good students, team players.

I hate to back him up, but Barnes is a good kid. UNC is incredibly lucky to have him.

allenmurray
05-04-2010, 11:05 AM
I could talk about how Ryan Harrow is very undersized and wonder aloud whether his body will be able to withstand contact. I could also talk about how his game may be best suited for the And 1 Circuit than a structured halfcourt offense.

I could talk about CJ Leslie's reputation as a me-first player and who has been known to give up in AAU and high school games when he wasn't getting the ball as much as he'd like.

I could talk about Lo Brown, but I honestly don't know much about him at all.

All I will say is that overall I like our guys the best. If I were to rank the guys you included, I would take all our guys first.

What a really bckhanded way to insult a bunch of 17 year old kids while pretending to take the "high road" and praise the Duke players. If "all (you) will say is that overall you like the (Duke guys the best), then just say that. Was there really any reason to drag Harrow and Leslie's names through the mud in the process?

airowe
05-04-2010, 11:06 AM
Yeah, if he leads them to a title *shudder* I'd have to give it to Barnes. Otherwise, I'll take our guys.

I like my chances.

CDu
05-04-2010, 11:10 AM
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Coach K thought Kyle was going pro during those countless hours of recruiting.

I'm not discounting how good of a player Barnes is/can be. Just saying I'll take our guys any day of the week. If Barnes goes pro after a year and Felix and Hairston steadily improve over 3-4 years, who's the better recruit?

And who is to say that Coach K wouldn't have relished the idea of having both Barnes AND Singler? Imagine being able to play both of those guys at the forward spots along with Plumlee/Kelly/Hairston at the 4. Seems like a nice picture.

Do I think our guys fit our needs pretty well? Absolutely. Does that mean I'd rather have all of our guys over Barnes? Not necessarily. Obviously, that's moot, since Barnes is there and not here.

flyingdutchdevil
05-04-2010, 11:13 AM
Yeah, if he leads them to a title *shudder* I'd have to give it to Barnes. Otherwise, I'll take our guys.

I like my chances.

So if Kyrie doesn't win a title next year and goes pro after a year, you'd rather have Marshall and LDII?

The network effects of having a player like Barnes or Kyrie go beyond their time at their respective university.

Btw, I'm not trying to disagree for the sack of disagreeing but I believe that these extremely talented, smart, and good-natured recruits are so rare and valuable that I'd like to have as many as possible (and the greed sets in...)

JasonEvans
05-04-2010, 11:28 AM
This thread seems to have run far, far afield of where it started.

--Jason "lets try to stay a bit more on topic in what is an important topic for the ACC and one of Duke's main rivals in the conference" Evans

airowe
05-04-2010, 12:00 PM
Does anyone else think it's a little odd that CJ had a press conference announcing he was choosing State yesterday and another event where signs his LOI today?

And how does Sammy's get all these guys to sign their LOIs in house?

allenmurray
05-04-2010, 12:16 PM
Does anyone else think it's a little odd that CJ had a press conference announcing he was choosing State yesterday and another event where signs his LOI today?

And how does Sammy's get all these guys to sign their LOIs in house?

It would be odd but for one thing - the "local kid" factor. When was the last time a kid from Chapel Hill signed with UNC? Or a kid from Durham with Duke? Or a kid from College Park with Maryland? Or a kid from Charlottesville with UVA? Or a . . ., well you get the point. It is very unusal.

Word of God wanted their moment in the sun, as would any high school who had a nationally sought after top recruit. State wanted the usual press conference publicity. Had CJ Leslie been from Minot North Dakota I'm sure there would have been a ceremony at his high school and an event at the college. In this case the towns happen to be one in the same. I don't think that can be overlooked.

Newton_14
05-04-2010, 09:12 PM
I wanted to share a little nugget that happened today. Nothing major so don't get your hopes up. We all have grown accustomed to the Duke Hate so we are proficient at spotting underlying hate when we see it.

So I am watching the local news tonight on WTVD 11 out of Durham. During the sports portion they had a reporter in Raleigh covering the CJ Leslie LOI signing and as he should have the reporter was capturing the excitement at State around the signing. Ryan Harrow was there and they spoke to him as well as Leslie. It was all cool and filled with excitement, again, as it should have been. This was the biggest signing for State in a long time.

Well the reporter sends it back to the Sports anchor who wraps it up by mentioning how great this is for NC State and how exciting next year looks. Then he passes the reins over to the news anchor (Larry Stogner).

So Stogner comments, "Yeah but they sure are pinning their hopes on the shoulders of one kid" end quote.

I was like, dude, was it really necessary to make that comment? Why be Debby Downer in a moment like that. It is a local school that your station covers all the time. How bout a little positive support for a school that desperately needs "hope".

But Larry Stogner is one the infinite number of Unc-Ch grads in the media, so there you have it.

Indoor66
05-04-2010, 10:13 PM
(Larry Stogner).

So Stogner comments, "Yeah but they sure are pinning their hopes on the shoulders of one kid" end quote.

I was like, dude, was it really necessary to make that comment? Why be Debby Downer in a moment like that. It is a local school that your station covers all the time. How bout a little positive support for a school that desperately needs "hope".

But Larry Stogner is one the infinite number of Unc-Ch grads in the media, so there you have it.

Maybe Stogner was talking about the weak team that plays on the Dump on the Hump?

Newton_14
05-04-2010, 10:35 PM
Maybe Stogner was talking about the weak team that plays on the Dump on the Hump?

Good one! As those at the Dump on the Hump are certainly pinning all of their hopes on the shoulders of one young prince....

jimsumner
05-04-2010, 11:08 PM
"It would be odd but for one thing - the "local kid" factor. When was the last time a kid from Chapel Hill signed with UNC? Or a kid from Durham with Duke? Or a kid from College Park with Maryland? Or a kid from Charlottesville with UVA? Or a . . ., well you get the point. It is very unusal. "

Well, Duke signed a McDonald's All-America from Raleigh all of 18 months ago.

And UNC has Justin Watts from Durham Jordan High School. Does 8 miles away count as local?

Shavlik Randolph, Chris Paul, Josh Howard, Curtis Hunter, Donald Williams, are all examples of players who played pretty close to home. There are others.

And Maryland has had more D.C. players than one can reasonably list.

So, I'm not sure that's it.