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mr. synellinden
05-22-2007, 08:50 PM
I think property values just went up in the northwest. Oden and Durant are headed to Portland and Seattle, respectively.

With Brandon Roy and Oden, Portland has the inside-outside nucleus to build a perennial contender in four or five years when current superstars' careers are winding down (such as Duncan, Nowitzki, Nash, Kobe). Hopefully they'll be trying to unseat Boozer's Jazz when they get there.

The western conference is just getting stronger and the balance of power for the next decade seems to be swinging even more to the west. They already have a solid group of young big men who are already established stars (Ming, Boozer, Amare) or seem to have potential to be (Bynum, Biedrins, Nene, Kaman, Chandler). All of those players are under 25 (except Boozer, who is 26).

Atlanta and the Knicks can exhale. Atlanta got the third pick, which means they keep it and don't have to give it to Phoenix (can you imagine Phoenix with Al Horford?- if Atlanta had the fourth or fifth pick, that's what would have happened.) And the Knicks got the 9th pick, which they have to give to the Bulls.

This lottery had such a huge impact on the next 15 years of the NBA. By looking back over the last 10 years and considering the impact Tim Duncan has had, you can see how history would have been altered if someone other than the Spurs had won the 1997 lottery. This lottery will have an even bigger impact.

Portland - adds Oden to LaMarcus Aldridge and Brandon Roy - they seem to be locked in at three positions (C, PF, PG) for 10 years at least. And the swing positions are the easiest to fill in the NBA.

Seattle. With Durant, Rashard Lewis and Ray Allen, they might set a record for most three pointers made in the next few years. I wonder if Seattle will consider letting Lewis go now that they will most likely have Durant, a very similar player to Lewis and instead try to find a top flight point guard. I hereby propose a Lewis for Jason Kidd trade. Teaming Kidd with Allen and Durant would be intriguing and the Nets would do that trade.

So much more to think about as I go over the lottery order again.

phaedrus
05-22-2007, 09:34 PM
very disappointed that they went to seattle and portland, for one reason: who wants to stay up to watch games that start at 10 or 11?

i think this should dispel the rumors that the nba lottery is rigged.

VaDukie
05-22-2007, 10:23 PM
very disappointed that they went to seattle and portland, for one reason: who wants to stay up to watch games that start at 10 or 11?

i think this should dispel the rumors that the nba lottery is rigged.

I agree. This is bad for the league - the West has been so dominant since Jordan left and this draft is only going to continue that.

kydevil
05-23-2007, 08:14 AM
Any chance that Portland somehow passes on Oden and takes Durant? I don't think it would be wise but Portland was very successful with Rasheed Wallace whose game I believe is similar of Durant.

Portland all ready has big size with Randolph and Aldridge but I can't see them passing on Oden.

_Gary
05-23-2007, 08:46 AM
IMHO, this is nothing short of a disaster for the league. No way can Stern & co. be happy with these results. Not only are the two premiere players going to the Pacific Northwest where they will have almost no television coverage in prime time, but they also go out West which only makes the league even more unbalanced than it already is. And whether you love or hate the Celtics, them getting one of the first two picks would have been gold for the league. Not a good night for the NBA.

Gary

jkidd31
05-23-2007, 09:58 AM
Any chance Josh slips to late first round and end up in one of Phoenix two first round picks? I think he'd flourish in the Suns system since it places the emphasis on being able to run the floor and pass.

lmb
05-23-2007, 10:21 AM
Anyone have some insight on how things may play out for the Bulls? Since their need is a scoring center, will there be one available at 9? Are they still looking to make a trade for Gasol?

I wonder if Duhon will be a Bull next year because he lost playing time at the end of the year, but yet would probably be of interest to some teams who are looking for a trade. He would have some value as part of a package deal. Any thoughts?

SilkyJ
05-23-2007, 11:27 AM
I think property values just went up in the northwest. Oden and Durant are headed to Portland and Seattle, respectively.

With Brandon Roy and Oden, Portland has the inside-outside nucleus to build a perennial contender in four or five years when current superstars' careers are winding down (such as Duncan, Nowitzki, Nash, Kobe). Hopefully they'll be trying to unseat Boozer's Jazz when they get there.



Don't forget about Zach Randolf, who, while a bit of a head case, averages something like 20-25pts and 10rebs. Jarrett Jack also had a nice 2nd year and is emerging into a solid PG, and when Lamarcus Aldridge finally got healthy he started to emerge as well. His Player Efficieny Rating (explained on ESPN.com if you don't know it) was very high for a rookie as I recall...

I think portland has a legit shot at making the playoff next season, and should be a force for a while to come...

MChambers
05-23-2007, 12:40 PM
May have saved the pick from going to Phoenix, but the third pick is a tough pick for Atlanta, because 90% of the roster is 6'9" guys in their early 20s. No way do they need Brandan Wright or Al Horford.

wiscodevil
05-23-2007, 12:45 PM
May have saved the pick from going to Phoenix, but the third pick is a tough pick for Atlanta, because 90% of the roster is 6'9" guys in their early 20s. No way do they need Brandan Wright or Al Horford.

would wither team do this?

amare stoudamire and phoenix's 1st rounder pick for Marvin williams and the #3 pick

DukeBlood
05-23-2007, 01:05 PM
I live in the Seattle area, Now i dont follow the NBA that closely.. but i hear rumors that Rashard Lewis is unlikely to be a supersonic next year. He has said he wanted to be traded. Now that he is a free agent it is unlikely he is going to re-sign with them.

I imagine Seattle will draft Durant. He will basically replace Lewis in a year or two. However, Seattle could use a dominant Center but i cant see how Portland wouldnt take him.

I cant possibly see how The Hawks will take another Forward(Unless its Durant slips). The NEED a PG!!!!! I know there are better players out there then Conley but He is the best at what they need. I think they will grab him and try and trade away their other pick. IMOP

throatybeard
05-23-2007, 01:08 PM
If it's some sort of tragedy that the two best draft picks are going to play in the Pacific time zone, outside LA, then the NBA shouldn't even have teams in those cities. (I don't think it's a tragedy).

Sometimes I think people wouldn't be satisfied unless every single playoff series were between LA, Chicago, or NY teams.

Patrick Yates
05-23-2007, 01:53 PM
Don't forget about Zach Randolf, who, while a bit of a head case, averages something like 20-25pts and 10rebs. Jarrett Jack also had a nice 2nd year and is emerging into a solid PG, and when Lamarcus Aldridge finally got healthy he started to emerge as well. His Player Efficieny Rating (explained on ESPN.com if you don't know it) was very high for a rookie as I recall...

I think portland has a legit shot at making the playoff next season, and should be a force for a while to come...


On paper, you may be right. But, if I run the blazers, I am careful. ZR is kind of a nut job, and now might be the time to run his butt out of town. In two years, their starting five of Oden, Roy, Webster, Aldridge and Jack would be awesome. ZR, who is very good I grant you, might be more trouble than he is worth. He runs his mouth too much, and I would not be surprised if he melted down for some reason, at some point. But, he is valuable right now. The starting pieces are in place. ZR is valuable enough that he would fetch quality backups in the form of an attractive mix of youth, vets, and draft pics. By trading ZR Portland could secure its bench for the forseeable future.

As you say, next year the blazers would really gell by the end of the year, and be very good the next year. After that, and the Spurs, Suns, and Mavs would be aged enough that the Blazers could be a real threat for at least a decade, assuming they could afford to pay everyone. I mean, that is a scary dyanasty that is developing.

Patrick Yates

ps. Oden has not hired an agent unless I am mistaken. This draft does not really favor Oden or Conley, as there is no real need for him until late in the lottery. Due to next year's depth at PG he may stay in. But, after last night, I can see Oden coming back to school to hope for a better draft situation next year, ie a more lucrative media market.

Also, if he spent a year playing like he did vs FL in the NC, on a completely loaded, No 1 ranked, how can they not win the NC next year, squad, his endorsement value would be through the roof. If he came back, I would not be shocked to see him average something like 25 ppg, 14 rpb, and 3-5 bpg. If he did this on a NC winning team, his Q rating would surpass even LeBron's potentially.

I am not saying this will happen. I am only saying that I would not be surprised if it did. Cause Boston will really go in the tank next year. There is no one that can help them next year at the 5th pick. Already there is talk of tweaking the draft next year, because for the last several years the worst team has been forced far down the lottery where there is no help available.

If, and this is a big IF, Oden were to head back to OSU, I can almost guarantee that the league will tweak the draft enough to ensure that Oden ends up in Celtic green, to set the dynasty for years to come.

DevilAlumna
05-23-2007, 02:13 PM
very disappointed that they went to seattle and portland, for one reason: who wants to stay up to watch games that start at 10 or 11?

Seattle doesn't really want the NBA franchise; the city, county and state have all said no to the owners' requests for upgrading the Key Arena with public funds. IIRC, the new owners are out of Oklahoma, and they want to move the franchise (including the WNBA team) to Ok City or Las Vegas. They've said publicly this is likely the last season here in Seattle.

It would make for an interesting Dallas/Houston/SA/OK rivalry, similar to the college football version of UT/A&M/OU/OSU.

ikiru36
05-23-2007, 03:15 PM
would wither team do this?

amare stoudamire and phoenix's 1st rounder pick for Marvin williams and the #3 pick

I see where this would be great for Atlanta, but seems way imbalanced from Phoenix's side (C'mon, Amare's a 1st team All-NBA'er, I think). If I were Atlanta, I either take Conley at 3 (a bit high for him so trading down a few picks if they can, to take him, makes even more sense), if they think he's the next Chris Paul. I honestly didn't see enough of Conley to evaluate that.

Otherwise, (again, if possible) I'd trade the 3 pick for whichever good and experienced PG you think'll mesh best with J. Johnson, and still have the 11 to nab a potential defensive Center or whatever you think the other greatest need is (Hibbard pulling out kinda stinks for them. If only Shel were an inch or two taller). PG is the real, serious need they have and even at Center they do have Pachulia as a solid offensive weapon and Shelden as a rebounder, interior defender. The last week of the season, when Shel was able to start at Center for them, he averaged 15+ pts., 11+ rebs., 2 steals and 2 blocks/game, earning April Rookie of the Month honors.

Final thought for some local flavor and if he isn't deemed too immature or too much of a turnover machine, do whatever with the 3 (trade for a big man?) and trade down the 11 pick and take Crittendon.

In any event, though their management doesn't particularly deserve it (and perhaps they'll find a way to waste the opportunity), it'd be great for the Hawks to finally rise and give those Atlantans the quality, fun hoops, they deserve. They honestly have a pretty scary nucleus already with Joe Johnson and Josh Smith plus other young talents with potential (Marvin and Shelden Williams, Childress and Pachulia). Give 'em a good, veteran PG (J. Kidd?) and it'll be fun to watch!

Go Shelden!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go Duke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SlimSlowSlider
05-23-2007, 03:59 PM
Mock drafts are starting to appear. This bozo does not have Josh going in the first round. It must be an oversight, b/c there is no way he slips to the second round.

http://cgi.cnnsi.com/2007/writers/chris_ekstrand/05/23/mock.draft.nba/index.html

ikiru36
05-23-2007, 04:20 PM
Mock drafts are starting to appear. This bozo does not have Josh going in the first round. It must be an oversight, b/c there is no way he slips to the second round.

http://cgi.cnnsi.com/2007/writers/chris_ekstrand/05/23/mock.draft.nba/index.html

Agreed, though he could still go anywhere from late lottery to the mid-20's. I continue to think he'd be a good pick for the Warriors (for them and him) at 18 as his currently demonstrated skills fit them pretty well (if he really does have a decent shot out to, say, 15 feet right now), including their need for more size. Plus, he still has a lot of potential upside. Dunleavy is, somewhat unfairly, persona non grata in the Bay so the fans may hate on a Duke player at first, but they'd be getting Josh at #18, not #3.

Go Josh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go Duke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JasonEvans
05-23-2007, 04:26 PM
Here is a good thing for Atlanta to do--

Deal the #3 pick to Phoenix for the pick Atlanta owes them next year (meaning the Hawks get to keep their pick next year) and also deal the #11 pick in this year's draft to Phoenix for Leandro Barbosa and the #21 pick (which Cleveland is giving to Phoenix).

This way the Hawks get a very good PG from the draft and still have a pick in next year's draft. I think that makes more sense than taking Conley 5+ spots too early with the #3 pick or waiting until #11 and praying that Conley is still available there. At #21, the Hawks can draft another forward, making Knight and Woodson eternally happy.

For Phoenix, they get to pick up a good young big man at #3 like Wright or Horford. They will likely get Conley or Acie Law at #11 who can study under Nash for a couple years before taking over as the full-time PG. It adds depth to their team and, frankly, Barbosa was pretty lousy in the series against the Spurs and he might be a bit too much of a gunner for the Suns taste.

What do folks think? Smart trade?

-Jason "it will never happen, that's for sure" Evans

phaedrus
05-23-2007, 04:29 PM
Agreed, though he could still go anywhere from late lottery to the mid-20's. I continue to think he'd be a good pick for the Warriors (for them and him) at 18 as his currently demonstrated skills fit them pretty well (if he really does have a decent shot out to, say, 15 feet right now), including their need for more size. Plus, he still has a lot of potential upside. Dunleavy is, somewhat unfairly, persona non grata in the Bay so the fans may hate on a Duke player at first, but they'd be getting Josh at #18, not #3.

Go Josh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go Duke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i don't know. the warriors' similarity to the suns is only superficial and has been vastly overstated by the media. they both score a lot and don't defend or rebound well. the suns, however, actually have an offense, they pass the ball around and get a lot of assists. the warriors base their offense on one-on-one mismatches (and taking bad three-pointers). certainly, i could see don nelson making the most of josh as someone who creates mismatches, but looking at last year's warriors i don't see where he would fit in.

pfrduke
05-23-2007, 04:37 PM
Seattle doesn't really want the NBA franchise; the city, county and state have all said no to the owners' requests for upgrading the Key Arena with public funds. IIRC, the new owners are out of Oklahoma, and they want to move the franchise (including the WNBA team) to Ok City or Las Vegas. They've said publicly this is likely the last season here in Seattle.

I respectfully disagree. Seattle fans want the Sonics to stay - like Golden State and Portland, it's an old school fanbase that has been around forever and is very loyal to its team. Loyalty to the team, however, does not include a tremendous desire to front $350 million in taxpayer dollars to a billionaire owner who purchased the team with an avowed intention to move it to OK City. I am amazed how fabulously wealthy individuals have been able to manipulate localities into funding stadiums through citizen taxation so that those same citizens can then pay increased ticket prices to watch the owners' teams - all designed to better profit the owner. Moreover, they've managed to manipulate the media to the point that any time a community balks at making a $350 million gift to an already wealthy owner, it means that the community doesn't support/want/love the team. No one comes down against the greed of the owner, and no one blames the owner for trying to extort money from the community by threatening to move the franchise.

If Bennett had any willingness to meet halfway, to do some kind of public/private funding combination, I think Seattle would be much more receptive. If he, at any point during his ownership, made it seem like he actually wanted to stay in Seattle, maybe the community would be more trusting of him, and more willing to extend public funds to build the stadium. Instead, he came in with a mindset that unless he gets everything he wants (free arena, etc), he'll just up and move the team to OKC. I think it's more than understandable that a community would balk at what is essentially extortion, and the fact that they're unwilling to bend over backwards for Bennett doesn't mean that they don't want their team to stay.

The people of Seattle, and more specifically, the fans of the Supersonics, got jobbed. In a way, the #2 pick is like salt in an open wound - it gives Sonics fans a chance to watch the future that should have been theirs (Durant, or maybe Oden) for just a single year, before he leads the franchise to a new locale.

ok, rant over...

pfrduke
05-23-2007, 04:49 PM
As an aside, there is a plan in place to try to have the funding achieved primarily through taxes on non-residents. Safeco Field was funded partially through hotel/motel, restaurant, and rental car taxes, and those taxes are generating more revenue than initially projected, meaning the Safeco bonds will be paid off early. Obviously the restaurant tax is felt locally, but the hotel/motel and rental car taxes are almost exclusively borne by non-residents.

Hasn't been approved yet, but it's an interesting way to try to get the public funding accomplished.

ikiru36
05-23-2007, 04:57 PM
Jason,

I'm not sure I like that scenario so much for the Hawks, though it'd be pretty sweet for the Suns. Mostly because, Atlanta, in the East, really is a borderline playoff team next year by simply staying healthy and adding a good PG. If Atlanta believes they are going to improve then they'd be trading the #3 pick in one of the deepest drafts ever for a likely lower pick the following year when the draft will likely be weaker as well.

From another perspective, some believe that this year was the Suns best chance to win it all. How about Nash and next year's Hawks pick back to the Hawks for Lue, the 3 and 11 picks, allowing the Suns to trade Nash before his slow decline (he's 33 years old), overnight turning the Hawks into contending Eastern Suns (Marion and Stoudamire becoming Joe Johnson and Josh Smith) while giving the Suns great picks to work with, to stay young and talented.

Basically just playing along with wild, but fun, speculation!

DevilAlumna
05-23-2007, 05:06 PM
I respectfully disagree. Seattle fans want the Sonics to stay - like Golden State and Portland, it's an old school fanbase that has been around forever and is very loyal to its team. Loyalty to the team, however, does not include a tremendous desire to front $350 million in taxpayer dollars to a billionaire owner who purchased the team with an avowed intention to move it to OK City.

Your distinction between fans supporting the team vs. the local residents shelling out $350M in public funds to line the pockets of the new owner is spot-on. Thanks for the edification.

ikiru36
05-23-2007, 05:26 PM
i don't know. the warriors' similarity to the suns is only superficial and has been vastly overstated by the media. they both score a lot and don't defend or rebound well. the suns, however, actually have an offense, they pass the ball around and get a lot of assists. the warriors base their offense on one-on-one mismatches (and taking bad three-pointers). certainly, i could see don nelson making the most of josh as someone who creates mismatches, but looking at last year's warriors i don't see where he would fit in.

I totally agree that the Warriors play a different style than the Suns, despite the similarly ascribed "small-ball" nomenclature. (Which brings up the question, when people talk about Duke "small ball" next year, what do they mean 'cause there are different ways to do it.)

I do think that the Warriors defense (after the trade and Baron and J. Rich's return), while somewhat gimmicky, was very under-rated, creating a lot of turnovers (led league) and blocking a lot of shots (3rd in league). (not gonna defend the rebounding, though that has more to do with the style of play than the player's abilities.) I could see Josh getting a few steals and blocking shots, looking pretty good getting out on the break every possession while giving them an in-between option besides Biedrens size and Barnes/Ellis going wild style. It didn't show against the Jazz because they are so physical against cutters, but Golden State often ran a sweet passing game through Stephen Jackson and others in the high post, when they were forced into half-court offense.

Anyways, I don't really know what would be best, but (admission of conflict of interest alert!) I have Warriors season tix next year and it'd be fun to see Josh develop and I could imagine him fitting their style pretty well.

Go Josh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pfrduke
05-23-2007, 05:42 PM
Your distinction between fans supporting the team vs. the local residents shelling out $350M in public funds to line the pockets of the new owner is spot-on. Thanks for the edification.

Yeah, I really think it's a shame what happened to the fan base in Seattle. I'm not sure it's Bennett's fault, per se (despite earlier rant). I mean, he shelled out however much money for the team, and if he wants to move it to OKC, and no one will stop him, that's his prerogative. It would have been nice, though, if the NBA or the prior ownership group had found a purchaser that was less inclined to take the first train out of town.

I'm also conflicted, as I'm moving to Seattle this fall. I've already signed up for season tickets to get my one season's worth of the Kevin Durant show (or the Greg Oden show) - they've got a great deal on 25-game packages, 2 seats for $10 a ticket.

Buckeye Devil
05-23-2007, 08:08 PM
As everyone knows, the Trailblazers once passed on drafting Michael Jordan in favor of Kentucky's Sam Bowie. I know that ESPN has its 5 reasons you can't blame them for drafting Bowie but could it be possible for them to pass on a big man and take the swingman Durant this time around?

Granted, Oden seems vastly superior to what Sam Bowie was, but the thought is intriguing. Portland undoubtedly thinks about what might have been on those rainy nights.

throatybeard
05-23-2007, 09:13 PM
I don't know specifically about Seattle, but these "X is paying for Y" schemes are often a shell game designed to trick the public into voting for things they otherwise wouldn't. The lottery works this way in some states. It's "for education." In some places it really is, and in some places it isn't.

You have to hand it to the people of Seattle though, at least, in that they've seen through the argument that stadiums cause all this peripheral economic activity that isn't a zero-sum game.