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View Full Version : Does anyone know if there are more Duke or UNC fans ex-NC?



ScreechTDX1847
04-26-2010, 10:02 PM
I have been trying to find some stats on this somwhere to settle a dispute between me and my roommate. Anyone know where a good place to look would be?

Duvall
04-26-2010, 10:03 PM
I have been trying to find some stats on this somwhere to settle a dispute between me and my roommate. Anyone know where a good place to look would be?

I don't know what "ex-NC" means, but the answer is probably UNC.

ScreechTDX1847
04-26-2010, 10:05 PM
ex-North Carolina.

Yes, i am fairly certain that is the answer too. I have some facts to support that there are more UNC fans in NC (which we all know anyway).

Duke79UNLV77
04-26-2010, 10:08 PM
I have been trying to find some stats on this somwhere to settle a dispute between me and my roommate. Anyone know where a good place to look would be?

Duke and UNC tied for most popular overall in 2010 and Duke more consistently popular since 1993. Assuming UNC holds a significant edge in North Carolina, that would give Duke the edge elsewhere.

http://news.harrisinteractive.com/profiles/investor/ResLibraryView.asp?BzID=1963&ResLibraryID=36852&Category=1777

Also, the TV ratings for the final this year was way up from last year.

lotusland
04-26-2010, 10:13 PM
I wonder if NC means National Championship not North Carolina. Either way I'm not sure I understand the question.

ScreechTDX1847
04-26-2010, 10:15 PM
I wonder if NC means National Championship not North Carolina. Either way I'm not sure I understand the question.

Outside of North Carolina would someone find more UNC fans or more Duke fans.

ScreechTDX1847
04-26-2010, 10:20 PM
Duke and UNC tied for most popular overall in 2010 and Duke more consistently popular since 1993. Assuming UNC holds a significant edge in North Carolina, that would give Duke the edge elsewhere.

http://news.harrisinteractive.com/profiles/investor/ResLibraryView.asp?BzID=1963&ResLibraryID=36852&Category=1777

Also, the TV ratings for the final this year was way up from last year.

Interesting, this data refutes my argument...and so...I never saw it.:p

Thanks for posting!

Newton_14
04-26-2010, 10:26 PM
Outside of North Carolina would someone find more UNC fans or more Duke fans.

Outside of the state of NC I would think it is closer than one may think. There are a lot of Duke fans across the country as well as overseas. But as we know there are also a lot of unc-ch fans across the country and overseas as well.

As someone else mentioned the ratings for the Final Four were way up this year, and there is a reason that Duke plays so many games on ESPN every year and it is not because they like us.'

Someone posted a poll recently in another thread that polled the country looking to measure Duke hate and interestingly enough the hater % was quite a bit lower than those that liked Duke and those that did not have an opinion either way.

Not sure how one would accurately measure what you are looking for but I would bet it is a close call.

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-26-2010, 10:30 PM
I think they're all way more Unc fans just do to MJ alone.

CPDUKEGUY24
04-26-2010, 10:31 PM
In my experiences, I feel like I come across more UNC than Duke fans outside of NC.

Then again being born and raised in NC, maybe Im just used to someone making an off comment a/b my duke gear.

Case in point, I recently went to China, and the minute I walked through customs in Shanghai, a group of a/b 3 Americans made note of my Duke beanie cap. They quickly noted that they were indeed Carolina fans, not from North Carolina. Uggh, haters

ScreechTDX1847
04-26-2010, 10:32 PM
Also, the data is clearly representative of recent success. Both UNC and Duke take a "hit" after a bad year which probably isn't representative. Of course, maybe UNC/Duke fans are more likely to not vote after a bad year.

Is there maybe data that shows how how many epople who identify themselves as Duke/UNC fans or do you think the above link captures that?

Maybe it also just seems like there are so many more UNC fans not only because I live in NC (where the stats show about twice as many UNC fans) but because of the Duke Hater contingent.

westwall
04-26-2010, 10:41 PM
I saw a poll/statistic in USA Today a year or so ago that had Duke as the most popular college team (yes, ahead of UNC ). Try researching that website.

NYC Duke Fan
04-27-2010, 02:22 AM
I have no idea who has more fans outside of NC.

I think that a lot of the UNC fans outside of NC are UNC fans because of Michael Jordan, especially in the inner cities. I could be wrong but I don't think that many inner city basketball fans are Duke fans.


I think that the the Duke fans outside of NC like Duke because they like the way that Duke plays, how its basketball program is handled and appeciate Coach K.

I try and go to MSG or The Meadowlands every time that Duke plays in NYC and the vast majority of the crowd are Duke fans. I could be mistaken but I do not think that UNC could draw the same type of crowd if they played in NYC.

cptnflash
04-27-2010, 03:00 AM
It's not even close... UNC in a landslide. I was at Disneyland today, and counted four UNC hats/shirts/jerseys, to none for Duke. And before anyone gets all up in arms about sample size (I certainly would), let me say that this is common on the west coast. I live in San Diego county and frequently see UNC gear out and about, even this year. I never, ever see Duke gear, except at alumni events.

flyingdutchdevil
04-27-2010, 04:19 AM
I think they're all way more Unc fans just do to MJ alone.

Not sure within the US, but this is definitely true outside of the US. In every country that I've lived, people have rarely heard of Duke (not to mention our basketball team) but everyone's heard of MJ and his baby blue shorts.

JohnGalt
04-27-2010, 07:55 AM
Someone posted a poll recently in another thread that polled the country looking to measure Duke hate and interestingly enough the hater % was quite a bit lower than those that liked Duke and those that did not have an opinion either way.



I'd be willing to bet the poll included a large portion of casual fans who generally have much less of a diversity of opinion between schools. Phrases like "I hate Team X" or "I love Team Y" only come out from the firebrands, the guys who follow the sports passionately (i.e. DBRers). The people who casually follow, say college basketball, during the regular season and then watch March Madness aren't inclined to hate a team like someone who is in it for the entire year.

I haven't looked at the poll on CBSsportsline in a while, but the last time I looked, Duke and UNC were the overwhelming favorites for teams that registered users picked as teams they "liked" while Duke was overwhelmingly (can't emphasize that enough) disliked. This may have changed, but, frankly, I'd be surprised.

I guess what I'm getting at is: Does the poll ask "fans" or fans?

blueprofessor
04-27-2010, 08:15 AM
never fell down (7th for UNC).

Since there appears to be a correlation between successful seasons and popularity, expect Duke's standing to increase this year as the poll was completed weeks before our NC.

Best regards and thanks,America! Blueprofessor:)

Devil Spawn
04-27-2010, 08:25 AM
2009 Duke enrollment: 6400
2009 UNC-CH enrollment: 28,000

Simply put, UNC-CH creates more alumni, which means an "installed base" that's much greater than Duke's, regardless of where these alumni end up living after graduation. Duke has to pull in fans who aren't alumni - and they've apparently done very well at this, even with all of the "haters". People respect winning programs, but UNC creates an overwhelmingly large number of graduates compared to Duke, with a resulting large fan base.

In my travels in the U.S. (47 states) and abroad, (22 countries in Europe, Africa, North, Middle, and South America, and the Caribbean), since 1982, I've seen many more bits of UNC-CH memorabilia adorning natives and travelers.

oldnavy
04-27-2010, 08:58 AM
Nothing scientific about my observations, but having lived in several different countries, multiple states, and traveled pretty much around the world at least once in my 20+ years of military service, it is not even close, UNC has way more "fans". NOW, I will make a caveat about "fans". I have found that most of the time when I ask someone wearing a UNC shirt questions about specific games, players, etc... MOST, and I mean by a very wide margin MOST know NOTHING about UNC and could not even name a starting player on the current team. Compared to Duke fans who I have struck up conversations with, the majority, and by a WIDE margin over the UNC fans could actually talk Duke basketball specifics with you.

So, in the terms of shear numbers, I believe there are MANY, MANY more folks that line themselves up with UNC, but as far as dedicated, true fans, the numbers may actually be closer than most people think. Overall, though UNC will still win out just because of the number of alumni and the marketing machine that is UNC.

CrazieDUMB
04-27-2010, 09:10 AM
Number of alumni has been brought up, but let's not forget the public/private distinction. Regardless of where people are from, more people are going to line up with UNC's image than Duke's just because it's a state school.

CDu
04-27-2010, 09:12 AM
2009 Duke enrollment: 6400
2009 UNC-CH enrollment: 28,000

Simply put, UNC-CH creates more alumni, which means an "installed base" that's much greater than Duke's, regardless of where these alumni end up living after graduation. Duke has to pull in fans who aren't alumni - and they've apparently done very well at this, even with all of the "haters". People respect winning programs, but UNC creates an overwhelmingly large number of graduates compared to Duke, with a resulting large fan base.

In my travels in the U.S. (47 states) and abroad, (22 countries in Europe, Africa, North, Middle, and South America, and the Caribbean), since 1982, I've seen many more bits of UNC-CH memorabilia adorning natives and travelers.

But over 80% of those 28,000 are in-state students, whereas only about 10-15% of Duke students are from NC. I'm guessing the vast majority of those UNC in-state students remain in-state.

And of course, this ignores the fact that you don't have to be an alumni to be a fan of either school. I guarantee that there are way more Duke (and UNC) fans who never attended (or even applied for attendence to) either school. So the enrollment is largely irrelevant when discussing out-of-state fanship.

UNC is more likely to have athletic apparel sold because of their ties to Nike/Jordan. I'm not sure how much this really affects the fanbase though.

While I'd still guess that there are more UNC fans out-of-state, I'd say it's probably closer than you might think.

Memphis Devil
04-27-2010, 10:20 AM
As we all know, Americans vote with their dollars and if my experiences in different sports stores across the Southeast are any inclination of the popularity between the two schools, UNC is the favorite hands down. Obviously, there is still plenty of carry over from the Jordan era. Here in Memphis you can't just go to the local mall/athletic store and pick up some fresh Duke gear!

cato
04-27-2010, 11:07 AM
I think that the the Duke fans outside of NC like Duke because they like the way that Duke plays, how its basketball program is handled and appeciate Coach K.

Duke fans outside of NC (and apparently NYC) like Duke because they went to Duke. When I wear Duke gear here in San Diego, people think I am inviting them to start a conversation about how much they despise Duke. Even the conservative military types who respect Coach K despise Duke. It's impressive, actually.


I try and go to MSG or The Meadowlands every time that Duke plays in NYC and the vast majority of the crowd are Duke fans. I could be mistaken but I do not think that UNC could draw the same type of crowd if they played in NYC.

I wonder if there are more Duke grads in the NY metro area or NC?

As another data point for the original question, the UNC alumni club is much, much bigger than the Duke alumni club in San Diego.

ScreechTDX1847
04-27-2010, 11:10 AM
2009 Duke enrollment: 6400
2009 UNC-CH enrollment: 28,000

Simply put, UNC-CH creates more alumni, which means an "installed base" that's much greater than Duke's, regardless of where these alumni end up living after graduation. Duke has to pull in fans who aren't alumni - and they've apparently done very well at this, even with all of the "haters". People respect winning programs, but UNC creates an overwhelmingly large number of graduates compared to Duke, with a resulting large fan base.

In my travels in the U.S. (47 states) and abroad, (22 countries in Europe, Africa, North, Middle, and South America, and the Caribbean), since 1982, I've seen many more bits of UNC-CH memorabilia adorning natives and travelers.

I have used this argument as well.

PADukeMom
04-27-2010, 01:23 PM
From my vantage point, no one from my family attended Duke. My oldest son became a Duke fan at a very young age & I became a fan mainly because of him and because of the way the players conducted themselves.

Duke is one of those teams like the Yankees or Cowboys; you either love them or despise them.

As a Duke fan I have heard so many bullcrap bias stories to fill Cameron. When logic fails the haters thy resort to childish bashing, i.e. Duke's players can't play in the NBA or Duke gets all the calls. When informed that Duke actually has more players in the NBA than any other college I get told J.J. Reddick sucks. Childish behavior that I will not lower myself to.

Here in NE Pennsylvania it is mainly 'Nova fans. I had to deal with them after for the past few years coming in the showroom covered from head to toe in 'Nova swag. I gave them their props for their win against us & wished them luck. Last year I called my plumbing supply rep after Carolina won. This year...not one word from anyone which isn't a surprise.

oldnavy
04-27-2010, 01:56 PM
Number of alumni has been brought up, but let's not forget the public/private distinction. Regardless of where people are from, more people are going to line up with UNC's image than Duke's just because it's a state school.

Not sure I agree with that statement. I think a lot of the media make that excuse as to why people dislike Duke, Private, Privileged, etc, but I do not get the sense that the masses pay that much attention to private (bad) public (good) argument. Some very popular programs are private, Notre Dame, Georgetown, even the new darlings of college basketball, Butler.

Private verse public may play a role, however I doubt that it is very significant. Honestly, I think more than anything it has to do with the colors. UNC's light blue has a tremendous appeal to folks. I cannot count the number of times I have asked someone if they were a tarheel fan (being stationed in Alaska for example and seeing someone with a UNC shirt on is a natural conversation starter), and they answered not really, I just liked the shirt...

Marketing has a tremendous impact on merchandising and fandom!

CDu
04-27-2010, 02:07 PM
Not sure I agree with that statement. I think a lot of the media make that excuse as to why people dislike Duke, Private, Privileged, etc, but I do not get the sense that the masses pay that much attention to private (bad) public (good) argument. Some very popular programs are private, Notre Dame, Georgetown, even the new darlings of college basketball, Butler.

Private verse public may play a role, however I doubt that it is very significant. Honestly, I think more than anything it has to do with the colors. UNC's light blue has a tremendous appeal to folks. I cannot count the number of times I have asked someone if they were a tarheel fan (being stationed in Alaska for example and seeing someone with a UNC shirt on is a natural conversation starter), and they answered not really, I just liked the shirt...

Marketing has a tremendous impact on merchandising and fandom!

I agree. I don't see that the private school thing is the big distinction between Duke and UNC nationally. I certainly think it's a relevant distinction within the state of North Carolina, but that's a different topic.

However, I think that the "elitist" reputation of Duke may be a factor. The fact that Duke is really good at basketball and that Duke kids are perceived as rich, nerdy, Northeastern, white kids (regardless of the accuracy of that perception) may have something to do with it. For various reasons, you don't see that same connotation at Georgetown or Notre Dame with regard to their sports teams (despite the fact that Georgetown is a great school). The same is true for Butler.

CrazieDUMB
04-27-2010, 02:10 PM
Not sure I agree with that statement. I think a lot of the media make that excuse as to why people dislike Duke, Private, Privileged, etc, but I do not get the sense that the masses pay that much attention to private (bad) public (good) argument. Some very popular programs are private, Notre Dame, Georgetown, even the new darlings of college basketball, Butler.

Private verse public may play a role, however I doubt that it is very significant. Honestly, I think more than anything it has to do with the colors. UNC's light blue has a tremendous appeal to folks. I cannot count the number of times I have asked someone if they were a tarheel fan (being stationed in Alaska for example and seeing someone with a UNC shirt on is a natural conversation starter), and they answered not really, I just liked the shirt...

Marketing has a tremendous impact on merchandising and fandom!

I can't disagree more on all counts. Notre Dame football carries as much hatred and unpopularity as we do. Butler was only the darling this year because they were a serious underdog. As for georgetown, as a DC resident let me say that Maryland carries way, way more support and media coverage than G'Town.

As for Tar Heel blue being a better color... maybe for a nursery or for fans of the fairer sex. You tell me which of these are cooler, more badass uniforms:

http://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/golo/2008/02/06/2405034/47aa886670674-600x450.jpg

Devil Spawn
04-27-2010, 03:05 PM
Plenty of NC natives who go to college don't stay in NC. For many, the next step is to leave NC and start a career some where else. I went to DC, my sister to LA, one of my first cousins (also CH native) to NYC.

54 out of 400 of my Chapel Hill High School classmates (class of '82) went to UNC-CH. The majority of them moved out of state after graduation. Most of my classmates families' were not native to NC - my three best friends' families were from Baltimore, rural Ohio, and northern Michigan

I imagine that many students from Charlotte, the Triad, and other cities in the Triangle behave similarly and want to live in a different setting than NC for personal or professional reasons.

If you're from rural NC, your white collar professional opportunities are comparatively limited and compensation lower compared to working in larger metropolitan areas both in and out of state.

It would be interesting to see some hard data on where most North Carolina UNC-CH alums end up.

hudlow
04-27-2010, 03:29 PM
The best way to answer the question is to watch "Cops" and see how many Carolina apparel wearing fans are cuffed as opposed to how many wearing Duke apparel get to wear the bracelets.

I believe the ratio would hold true for the rest of the population.

hud

hedevil
04-27-2010, 03:36 PM
I live in Texas and I can say that I come across UNC fans much more often than I do Duke fans. Even when I travel to visit family, I tend to come across UNC fans. I love it. I love crossing paths with fellow Duke fans and chatting basketball, but I love a fun debate with UNC fans just as much. Especially now, after winning a NC.:D

For me there is something great about being in the minority as far as being a Duke fan in my city. I don't feel other programs add up, therefore, I really feel a sense of pride when sporting my Duke gear around town, which I do more than I'll admit.:)

I will say this. Even the people that I come across who are fans of other programs tell me that they respect Duke. They may not be fans, but they respect it's players and the way the program is run. To me, that's important.

CEF1959
04-27-2010, 05:43 PM
2009 Duke enrollment: 6400
2009 UNC-CH enrollment: 28,000

Simply put, UNC-CH creates more alumni, which means an "installed base" that's much greater than Duke's, regardless of where these alumni end up living after graduation.

This is a critical fact. 20,000 more graduates per year equals a 1 million fan difference over 50 years in graduates alone. That's big. Then you've got the haters who didn't graduate from either school, all with their own mixed motivations for not wanting Duke to win, which have been explained ad nauseum for years. I'd bet BIG money UNC is a huge favorite over Duke among those who never went to college. Good on ya, UNC.

oldnavy
04-27-2010, 11:25 PM
I can't disagree more on all counts. Notre Dame football carries as much hatred and unpopularity as we do. Butler was only the darling this year because they were a serious underdog. As for georgetown, as a DC resident let me say that Maryland carries way, way more support and media coverage than G'Town.

As for Tar Heel blue being a better color... maybe for a nursery or for fans of the fairer sex. You tell me which of these are cooler, more badass uniforms:

http://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/golo/2008/02/06/2405034/47aa886670674-600x450.jpg
First, I did not say that the UNC blue was better. I loathe it myself, but a lot of people do like it. Second, ND football is disliked by a lot of fans, but they are also extremely popular as well. My point is that I do not think the Private/Public distinction between the schools accounts much at all for the disparity in the number of fans. State schools in general will be more popular in that state. I mean, I have had many, many folks ask me as a native North Carolinian, how I could not pull for the "State" school. They seem to forget that NCSU, ECU, WCU, UNCW, UNCC, UNCG, UNCP, UNCA,( I am sure that I am forgetting some) all are "State" schools, but in their opinion only UNCCH counts as the state school.

For the record IMO, the Duke blue, the Duke white and the Duke black uniforms are more badI'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. than the Alexander Julian designer powder blue wussy looking UNC uniforms....

hedevil
04-27-2010, 11:43 PM
Forget the color! What about the logo? The devil has to have the obvious appeal here, doesn't it?

I mean seriously, I'll take rockin a Blue Devil over a black spot any day.

SupaDave
04-28-2010, 11:12 AM
I think that a lot of the UNC fans outside of NC are UNC fans because of Michael Jordan, especially in the inner cities. I could be wrong but I don't think that many inner city basketball fans are Duke fans.


What do the inner cities have to do with this? What cities? What do you have to support this?

jdj4duke
04-28-2010, 05:26 PM
In my travels in the U.S. (47 states) and abroad, (22 countries in Europe, Africa, North, Middle, and South America, and the Caribbean), since 1982, I've seen many more bits of UNC-CH memorabilia adorning natives and travelers.

I have seen Duke stickers (including basketball themes) on cars in Taiwan, France, UK, UAE, Saudi, Japan, Thailand, Germany, Egypt, India, Singapore, Malaysia, Holland, Belgium, Ireland, Hong Kong, China, and Korea. I do keep count as it is always interesting to encounter such a nice shade of blue in unexpected places.

I have (selectively) no memory of seeing any UNC sticker outside the US. and most of the UNC apparel outside the US, and especially in Asia is clearly overruns from local factories, worn with the same devotion that any other knock-off receives. Those same overruns find their way to flea markets and wholesalers all over the US as well. Cheap is a great motivator for purchase.

From this obviously unimpeachable and totally empirical evidence, Duke has a better presence world-wide than UNC; there is though clearly a better presence of legitimate affiliations since it takes honest effort to come by window and bumper stickers.

And, I have found that the international business community I encounter generally have all heard of Duke, and not just or only from basketball. UNC? Not much at all or only in the context of Michael Jordan. I don't care if UNC has a colony on the moon; they will never have the overall rep that Duke has, especially internationally and especially outside of basketball. We are part of a small but powerful tribe.