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Cameron's Crazie!
04-23-2010, 10:54 AM
Hello everyone! First post here, although I've been reading the boards for quite some time now..

Anyways, I've posted this on TDD and just wanted to ask you folks here.
Who has the better backcourt between the presumably preseason #1 and #2 teams in the nation? :)

Duke: Smith, Irving, Curry, Dawkins, Thornton
Sparty: Lucas, Lucious, Allen, Summers, Appling

I agree with someone who posted, that based on potential, I'd take Duke. Nolan is the only upperclassman (although Curry is a redshirt soph) while Sparty has the experience edge. But overall, not being a homer here, Duke wins this one imo :D Gimme Mr. Smith over a healthy Lucas. :p

ChicagoCrazy84
04-23-2010, 11:17 AM
Hello everyone! First post here, although I've been reading the boards for quite some time now..

Anyways, I've posted this on TDD and just wanted to ask you folks here.
Who has the better backcourt between the presumably preseason #1 and #2 teams in the nation? :)

Duke: Smith, Irving, Curry, Dawkins, Thornton
Sparty: Lucas, Lucious, Allen, Summers, Appling

I agree with someone who posted, that based on potential, I'd take Duke. Nolan is the only upperclassman (although Curry is a redshirt soph) while Sparty has the experience edge. But overall, not being a homer here, Duke wins this one imo :D Gimme Mr. Smith over a healthy Lucas. :p


That is a tough one, but honestly, I would have to give the edge to MSU RIGHT NOW because we don't know how Irving, Curry, and Thornton will pan out and we don't know how much Dawkins will improve as he does have a lot to improve upon. Based on potential though like you said, it's Duke no question. These guys have to prove they belong first. They haven't earned it yet, but once they do they will be the best backcourt in America.

Jackson
04-23-2010, 11:41 AM
Hello everyone! First post here, although I've been reading the boards for quite some time now..

Anyways, I've posted this on TDD and just wanted to ask you folks here.
Who has the better backcourt between the presumably preseason #1 and #2 teams in the nation? :)

Duke: Smith, Irving, Curry, Dawkins, Thornton
Sparty: Lucas, Lucious, Allen, Summers, Appling

I agree with someone who posted, that based on potential, I'd take Duke. Nolan is the only upperclassman (although Curry is a redshirt soph) while Sparty has the experience edge. But overall, not being a homer here, Duke wins this one imo :D Gimme Mr. Smith over a healthy Lucas. :p

Call me a homer but I think it has to be Duke based on current output (Smith) and on potential (Irving and Curry). Irving is THE TRUTh and if Curry is even close to his brother, which it seems that he is, we have this one over MSU.

dukelifer
04-23-2010, 11:50 AM
Hard to say at this point as their are way too many unknowns on Duke's side. MSU has much more tourney ready experience- so they are ahead on that front. MSU will be very good next year and being close two years in a row will make them a very tough out in March assuming again no injuries.

CoBlueDevil
04-23-2010, 12:23 PM
Call me a homer but I think it has to be Duke based on current output (Smith) and on potential (Irving and Curry). Irving is THE TRUTh and if Curry is even close to his brother, which it seems that he is, we have this one over MSU.

Im giving the edge to Smith over Lucas. Both have FF experience, and are seasoned veterans, but Nolan has something Lucas doesnt. A ring!!!! Enough said.

Lucious is interesting becuase before Lucas was injured he wasn't seeing the court a ton. But then he hit the dagger against those Terps that I dislike so much, and that kinda put him on the map. But after watching Ky play in the McD's game and the Jordan Brand, and a couple games during his season, I believe that he is going to be an instant impact player. This kid is GOOD. Edge to Irving.

Im giving the edge to Summers and Allen, over Curry and Dre, mainly becuase they have more experience. But with some time, Curry and Dre will pass them, as they have more potential to be game changers.

Appling is much more highly rated than TT. (ESPN 96/92). I know that ratings are inconsistent, and all, but they do have some insight. None the less Im not sure either of these guys will be seeing the court a ton, unless they can provide a defensive presence. I've read and heard that TT can play some D, so hopefully that gets him on the court. Mute point, so no edge.

Overall it's probably a tie, possibly a slight edge to MSU, mainly based on overall experience. But with the eventual emergence of Curry and Dre, there wont even be a case for an argument. I just hope Curry and Dre get going early next year.

GO DUKE!

CDu
04-23-2010, 12:49 PM
This question is impossible to answer at this point, because there is just so much unknown:

1) how good will the incoming freshmen be?
2) how much better will the reserve underclassmen get?
3) how good will Curry be?
4) how much will each go with a 3-guard lineup?
5) how will Lucas recover from a tough injury?

In terms of returning players, MSU has a lot more points, assists, and experience returning. They have a huge experience advantage at PG, which is something that shouldn't be taken lightly (even considering Irving's talent).

Until we see otherwise, I give the edge to MSU in the backcourt. Hopefully, we'll see otherwise very early in the season. I give us the edge in the frontcourt (with Singler being grouped there).

Again, though, it's impossible to compare until we've seen some of these guys actually play.

SMO
04-23-2010, 12:55 PM
Hello everyone! First post here, although I've been reading the boards for quite some time now..

Anyways, I've posted this on TDD and just wanted to ask you folks here.
Who has the better backcourt between the presumably preseason #1 and #2 teams in the nation? :)

Duke: Smith, Irving, Curry, Dawkins, Thornton
Sparty: Lucas, Lucious, Allen, Summers, Appling

I agree with someone who posted, that based on potential, I'd take Duke. Nolan is the only upperclassman (although Curry is a redshirt soph) while Sparty has the experience edge. But overall, not being a homer here, Duke wins this one imo :D Gimme Mr. Smith over a healthy Lucas. :p

Add Singler to Duke and it's not even close.

Jderf
04-23-2010, 01:00 PM
Add Singler to Duke and it's not even close.

Yea, this is only a discussion if we're talking about who has the better "backcourt" and not who has the better "perimeter." If you don't restrict the conversation to guards, it's not a question.

CDu
04-23-2010, 03:20 PM
Yea, this is only a discussion if we're talking about who has the better "backcourt" and not who has the better "perimeter." If you don't restrict the conversation to guards, it's not a question.

Agreed. But this also introduces another question. How do you define "backcourt?" MSU played a lot of three-guard lineups. This past year, we played almost exclusive two-guard lineups. Do you limit it to two guard spots, or do you allow for a three-guard lineup to all be a part of the "backcourt."

If you allow three-guard "backcourts", MSU's "backcourt" will look better, because more guys got minutes. For example, Summers played primarily at the 3 spot for MSU (really, they just played two 2s simultaneously, but you get the point). So is it fair to include him and exclude Singler? And do we include Singler if Duke goes to a more three-guard set approach and he plays the 4 more?

It's just very hard to compare "backcourts" right now, considering all the information that we don't really have.

Big Pappa
04-23-2010, 04:01 PM
Yea, this is only a discussion if we're talking about who has the better "backcourt" and not who has the better "perimeter." If you don't restrict the conversation to guards, it's not a question.

I think if we are talking about the 1-3 positions you have to include Kyle. If you are talking about the 1 and 2 then you can't include Kyle but I also don't think you include Summers because he played the 3 quite a bit last season.

CDu
04-23-2010, 07:23 PM
I think if we are talking about the 1-3 positions you have to include Kyle. If you are talking about the 1 and 2 then you can't include Kyle but I also don't think you include Summers because he played the 3 quite a bit last season.

Agreed. You have to compare apples to apples.

dcar1985
04-23-2010, 08:52 PM
Yea I definitely would go with our backcourt over states....jus for kicks heres a highlight video of KI from the Jordan Classic...so nasty http://www.ballislife.com/video/kyrie-irving-jordan-brand

MrBisonDevil
04-24-2010, 12:13 AM
I love my alma mater, but I have to give this one to MSU. MSU Senior + Junior Experience > Duke Freshman + Sophomore Talent.

I think both teams will jockey around the top-5 all season long and they should meet up late in the NCAA Tourney.

DukieInBrasil
04-24-2010, 08:27 AM
I love my alma mater, but I have to give this one to MSU. MSU Senior + Junior Experience > Duke Freshman + Sophomore Talent.

I think both teams will jockey around the top-5 all season long and they should meet up late in the NCAA Tourney.

Don't forget that Nolan is a Sr. as is Kyle, who may or may not be in the backcourt depending on how you define it. Your post does illuminate one thing though, the vast haze of the unknown as to how good our Fr. will be as well as how much development have Seth and Andre made.

To add to the mix, what about Carrick? If Kyle can be considered a 3, and part of the backcourt in that scenario, would Carrick not also be a 3 and part of our backcourt depth?

gofurman
04-24-2010, 10:04 AM
Hard to say at this point as their are way too many unknowns on Duke's side. MSU has much more tourney ready experience- so they are ahead on that front. MSU will be very good next year and being close two years in a row will make them a very tough out in March assuming again no injuries.

why did Duke win a NC and have a great year? EXPERIENCE - 5 starters went Snr, Snr (Zou, Lance)... Snr, Jr, Jr (Nolan, Kyle, Sheyer)

Apart from UK how many teams with fr/soph pg tandems go far? Can we even name one..
Have to give this to MSU until proven otherwise.

- I went to a buddy and told him to look at all NC since 2000 (arbitrary selection there). Mateen Cleaves upperclassman... Jason Williams... UNC guards up through Scheyer.. only exception - was Gerry McNamara the PG as a freshman?

I believe a HUGE determining factor is upperclass backcourt - ESP at the 1. Now the way to mitigate this is to play perhaps Smith and Singler as the 1/2 and 3 keeping two Seniors out there.

COYS
04-24-2010, 10:13 AM
why did Duke win a NC and have a great year? EXPERIENCE - 5 starters went Snr, Snr (Zou, Lance)... Snr, Jr, Jr (Nolan, Kyle, Sheyer)

Apart from UK how many teams with fr/soph pg tandems go far? Can we even name one..
Have to give this to MSU until proven otherwise.

- I went to a buddy and told him to look at all NC since 2000 (arbitrary selection there). Mateen Cleaves upperclassman... Jason Williams... UNC guards up through Scheyer.. only exception - was Gerry McNamara the PG as a freshman?

I believe a HUGE determining factor is upperclass backcourt - ESP at the 1. Now the way to mitigate this is to play perhaps Smith and Singler as the 1/2 and 3 keeping two Seniors out there.

Our 2001 tandem was a sophomore Williams and a freshman Duhon. And although it was vacated, frosh Derrick Rose and junior CDR would've taken Memphis to the title if the team could just shoot free throws. Our backcourt will likely feature senior Nolan Smith and frosh Kyrie Irving at the 1 and 2 with senior Kyle Singler at the three a lot of the time. Sophomores Dawkins and Curry will back them up. I think we stack up well in the experience department and have the option of playing Nolan at the 1 from time to time if Kyrie's lack of experience shows.

greybeard
04-24-2010, 10:25 AM
The biggest challenge will be what is loosely referred to as chemistry. At the end of the season, K was calling it "love." Amidst the competition, can these guys find eachother? No one should expect the band of brothers last year's team was, but there is a real chance that the legacy of the three seniors will get passed along through those who remain, that next year's team will become embued with at least some of that specialm special quality that K talked about, bore witness to, as his team really took off.

If so, the wealth of talent that next year's cast of guards comprise should be a real hoot to watch, and death his own self to play against.

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-24-2010, 12:05 PM
By the end of the year, Duke will have the best backcourt.

Indoor66
04-24-2010, 01:37 PM
By the end of the year, Duke will have the best backcourt.

That is when it counts. The rest means nothing.

ChicagoCrazy84
04-24-2010, 06:24 PM
Yea I definitely would go with our backcourt over states....jus for kicks heres a highlight video of KI from the Jordan Classic...so nasty http://www.ballislife.com/video/kyrie-irving-jordan-brand


SO nasty. The kid can flat out ball!!! The explosiveness, the shooting, the vision, the passing. He has it all! Is it November yet :D

MisterRoddy
08-23-2010, 12:26 AM
As time has gone on, it's gotten more clear as to who has the better backcourt and while MSU will have a great one next year (minus Allen), Duke should have the best backcourt in the NCAA, and potentially the best in recent memory.

magjayran
08-23-2010, 01:22 AM
By the end of the year, Duke will have the best backcourt.

This is what I'm thinking.

Irving is insanely skilled. He's going to have some ups and downs this year but I think that he'll be fine come tournament time. Actually I think that he has the potential to be dominant by then.

We all know that Nolan is very good but I actually think that he will be in the running for NPOY so we're good at the two.

Curry and Dawkins both have the potential to catch fire or be ice cold on any given day. I doubt that there will be many instances where both are cold and if we get some games when both are hot....man oh man.

I don't expect too much from Thornton this year but I wouldn't be surprised if he earns a little playing time. I think he's going to be a steady contributor in the coming years.

gumbomoop
08-23-2010, 09:53 AM
Although I wouldn't argue that the term "backcourt" is utterly outmoded, it does strike me that many, many college teams have "perimeter" and "inside" players, essentially 3 passer/driver/wing shooters and 2 bigs/rebounders. As the terms "backcourt" and "perimeter" are close to, but not quite perfectly, interchangeable, arguments about who's got the best one might depend on which of the 2 terms one uses.

Happily, in Duke's '10-'11 case, we have, on paper/preseason, both the best backcourt [see above posts] and the best perimeter - by adding Kyle and sometimes Ryan to the list.

cameroncrazy3104
08-23-2010, 09:05 PM
This might change some thoughts about MSU

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100820/SPORTS0202/8200415/1361/Former-MSU-guard-Chris-Allen-will-transfer-to-Iowa-State

Chris Allen is transferring to Iowa State

left_hook_lacey
08-23-2010, 11:08 PM
Hello everyone! First post here, although I've been reading the boards for quite some time now..

Anyways, I've posted this on TDD and just wanted to ask you folks here.
Who has the better backcourt between the presumably preseason #1 and #2 teams in the nation? :)

Duke: Smith, Irving, Curry, Dawkins, Thornton
Sparty: Lucas, Lucious, Allen, Summers, Appling

I agree with someone who posted, that based on potential, I'd take Duke. Nolan is the only upperclassman (although Curry is a redshirt soph) while Sparty has the experience edge. But overall, not being a homer here, Duke wins this one imo :D Gimme Mr. Smith over a healthy Lucas. :p

I'm a little old school, so just based on depth and experience, I'd have to go with MSU. But I hope I'm wrong by the middle/end of the season.