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Kewlswim
04-20-2010, 05:02 PM
Hi,

I am not sure which Kyle Singler thread this should go in, so I started another--please feel free to move to the right one or leave as its own thread.

I am sick and tired of having to explain that Coach K cares about his players and that Kyle coming back is not some sort of self-serving act by Coach K. Coach K was prepping Kyle to leave early, Kyle decided that he wanted to stay. This was not out of some nefarious act it was out of love for Duke. What's wrong with loving Duke and wanting spend another year in the Gothic Wonderland?

I think Kyle really likes his classes. He enjoys what he is studying. He enjoys playing for Coach K. When a certain kid down the road stayed for a senior season, wasn't it hailed as a great thing to do? I seem to remember a guy who stayed at Texas for a senior year playing football (the guy with dreadlocks who then smoked marijuana and had some issues) for Mack Brown. A QB who plays at Texas has as good or better a chance to get injured as Kyle does.

This isn't part of some "hatred" tsunami, this is people who say, "My goodness to turn down all that money. I think he is making a big mistake." Why don't people say, "Wow," he is going back to College good for him?

I know this is a lot smaller in terms of dollars, but when I came back to California I went to work in a software distributing company where I did really well. The boss offered to pay my tuition to California-Berkley and give me a great job. I turned it down to return to Duke. Some people in the company where shocked I made such a decision. People said to me, "I can't believe you like Duke so much." Why not? Why can't people believe it?

GO DUKE!

DevilHorns
04-20-2010, 05:12 PM
Hi,

I am not sure which Kyle Singler thread this should go in, so I started another--please feel free to move to the right one or leave as its own thread.

I am sick and tired of having to explain that Coach K cares about his players and that Kyle coming back is not some sort of self-serving act by Coach K. Coach K was prepping Kyle to leave early, Kyle decided that he wanted to stay. This was not out of some nefarious act it was out of love for Duke. What's wrong with loving Duke and wanting spend another year in the Gothic Wonderland?

I think Kyle really likes his classes. He enjoys what he is studying. He enjoys playing for Coach K. When a certain kid down the road stayed for a senior season, wasn't it hailed as a great thing to do? I seem to remember a guy who stayed at Texas for a senior year playing football (the guy with dreadlocks who then smoked marijuana and had some issues) for Mack Brown. A QB who plays at Texas has as good or better a chance to get injured as Kyle does.

This isn't part of some "hatred" tsunami, this is people who say, "My goodness to turn down all that money. I think he is making a big mistake." Why don't people say, "Wow," he is going back to College good for him?

I know this is a lot smaller in terms of dollars, but when I came back to California I went to work in a software distributing company where I did really well. The boss offered to pay my tuition to California-Berkley and give me a great job. I turned it down to return to Duke. Some people in the company where shocked I made such a decision. People said to me, "I can't believe you like Duke so much." Why not? Why can't people believe it?

GO DUKE!

One word: Jealousy.

Simple as that. Carolina loses Ed Davis this year to the draft and he was flat out aching to go. We win a championship, and our star player returns. Its unheard of anywhere else in this ERA of college basketball (besides the UF team with Noah, Horford, and crew) to care about the college game for one more year rather than take the millions and go pro. They think its stupid because thats what most players do, leave early with guaranteed money. I have nothing against this, and frankly I posted in other threads that I wanted Kyle to go pro this year and have that chance of a high pick since that was his goal all along.... goals change. Kyle wanted to stay, even though he definitely knew that he was projected somewhere with good solid money in the late-teens. Great for him, great for the game, and great for Duke.

WiJoe
04-20-2010, 05:15 PM
Just have to ignore the haters, hard as it may be.

RoyalBlue08
04-20-2010, 05:17 PM
I completely agree with you, and am also tired of the whole argument, if there is one. But that being said, one other point I don't hear people make much is that you have to remember that Kyle is still a young man. Young men don't always make the same kind of decisions as middle age men do. Yes, while many of us older guys sitting on couches wouldn't turn down guaranteed NBA money for a senior year in college, it doesn't mean that all kids Kyle's age think the same way. Kudos to his parents for not pressuring him and letting him live his life as he sees fit. Honestly, I think if there weren't so many people talking in their collective ears, I bet more kids would make this sort of decision. I bet being big man on campus and a senior leader of a college basketball team is a hell of a lot more fun than playing basketball for a living.

BamaBlueDevil
04-20-2010, 05:22 PM
One word: Jealousy.

Simple as that. Carolina loses Ed Davis this year to the draft and he was flat out aching to go. We win a championship, and our star player returns. Its unheard of anywhere else in this ERA of college basketball (besides the UF team with Noah, Horford, and crew) to care about the college game for one more year rather than take the millions and go pro. They think its stupid because thats what most players do, leave early with guaranteed money. I have nothing against this, and frankly I posted in other threads that I wanted Kyle to go pro this year and have that chance of a high pick since that was his goal all along.... goals change. Kyle wanted to stay, even though he definitely knew that he was projected somewhere with good solid money in the late-teens. Great for him, great for the game, and great for Duke.

I am the last one to give credit to tar heels, but I think you have to include Tyler Hansbrough and the gang when you give credit to players who came back despite the opportunity to make millions....

Olympic Fan
04-20-2010, 05:23 PM
Two words for the haters: Tyler Hansbrough

How is Kyle Singler's situation different than Hansbrough's choice after his junior year? Hansbrough would have been in the bottom third of the first round (just as Kyle would be), but he didn't even test the waters. Was Roy selfish in that he worked his mind control to keep Hansbrough another year?

Yet, visit IC and the consensus is that Kyle is stupid for coming back and K (although they have another term for him there) is a selfish SOB who is manupulating the kid.

It's funny, because if you go back to Hansbrough's statements when he decided to return after 2008, he cited almost exactly the same reasons as Kyle mentioned this morning.

On second thought, I guess there is a different between them -- when Kyle reached the Final Four in his junior season, he didn't choke like Hansbrough and the Tar Heels did in 2008.

Actually, their pain (and the anguish on the Kentucky boards) is kind of satisfying to read and hear.

DevilHorns
04-20-2010, 05:26 PM
I am the last one to give credit to tar heels, but I think you have to include Tyler Hansbrough and the gang when you give credit to players who came back despite the opportunity to make millions....

You are right, I'll give them credit for that.... slightly different circumstance in that they didn't win a championship Hans' Jr year and would have went out the worst way possible with a slaughter against KU (or maybe Davis' departure this year is the worst way possible? LOL)... and that if I remember right Hans' was no where near the projected pick Singler is this year.

yancem
04-20-2010, 05:27 PM
When a certain kid down the road stayed for a senior season, wasn't it hailed as a great thing to do?
GO DUKE!

Here in lies the break down in logic by non Duke fans. I didn't hear anyone question Hansbrough's decision to return for his senior season. Singler is very much in a similar position. Like Hansbrough, Singler is not seen as a sure thing lottery pick. Also like Hansbrough, he will have the opportunity to place his name all over his school's record book, try to win a NPOY, probably have his jersey retired and maybe win a national championship. All while expanding his game and possibly improving his draft stock.

I think the major difference with Singler's situation is that he won a NC this year and so some people don't see what is there to come back to. Winning a NC is awesome and a great feat but winning 2, having your jersey retired being remembered as a legend is something truly special and Singler has the chance to all those things. I think that people too often get caught up in the $$$ signs and forget that you can't buy the experience that Singler should have next year (winning the NC or not) and he only has 1 chance to live it. The money will be there after next season, I say enjoy being part student athlete part GOD; I know I would go back to college in an instant and I was just your normal everyday lazy college slacker!

Lord Ash
04-20-2010, 05:33 PM
I have not heard that anywhere. I suggest that if you are sick of that, just avoid Carolina or Terp websites. I have a feeling that is the only place people are saying it.

JaMarcus Russell
04-20-2010, 05:50 PM
I have not heard that anywhere. I suggest that if you are sick of that, just avoid Carolina or Terp websites. I have a feeling that is the only place people are saying it.

This seems to be pretty much the case. None of the objective guys like Givony or Goodman have said anything negative about it because they don't have an agenda.

On sites like IC, they will twist anything around to make it look bad for Duke and good for them. Those sites do not reflect the opinions of most college basketball fans, just ardent UNC fans who don't have the candor to say "Damn, two of their top 3 guys are coming back, and they beat us 82-50 last year.":eek:

ElSid
04-20-2010, 05:51 PM
I don't think anyone other than idiots and ignoramuses are making the argument that this was a bad decision. Hate to generalize, but I think it's true.

Even from a cynical, cash-first perspective, I think this is a good decision. This year's draft is especially crowded. The lockout may or may not happen but if it does, it won't end the league. Kyle can work on things that will endear him more fully to NBA scouts. Next year's Duke team is going to be really exciting and high scoring. Next year's Duke team has another chance to go deep in the tourney, and scouts value that. End result is that it is highly likely that Kyle will move up many spots on the board. And he'll complete a degree that costs most of us about $200,000.

Yes, I love that Kyle specifically said he's coming back because he loves playing ball and going to college at Duke. And that he said he didn't want to base his decision on his draft chances. I think that's the mature and correct way to think about the decision, given his circumstances (as opposed to Luol Deng who couldn't wait to start a charity for Sudan, for example). But even from the other side of the coin, his long term success in the league and beyond should be improved by this decision.

There is no reasoning with most of the people on IC, or your general Duke hater. They're just not interested in it. I don't think it's fun for them. Oh well. I've tried and in a humorous example, the guy I was "arguing" with said, "see, you're assuming that I care to reason about this. Your jerseys say Duke and that's the beginning and end of my argument". He was a Cal fan. Fair enough. Just gotta deal with it. Not that hard considering we win very often...which makes it possible for me to be a Cubs fan and not go nuts.

Kewlswim
04-20-2010, 05:54 PM
I have not heard that anywhere. I suggest that if you are sick of that, just avoid Carolina or Terp websites. I have a feeling that is the only place people are saying it.

Hi,

I have not been to a Terps board, I did take a peek at the IC meltdown. Sports writers/talk personalities who went to places such as UNLV, people who are casual basketball fans (though they do tend to root for UNC) those folks...many of them are saying Kyle's decision is a mistake.

GO DUKE!

hood7
04-20-2010, 06:02 PM
Another difference is that Hansbough was already like 29 years old, yet he STILL decided to come back for another year. I mean, he only had like 5 or 6 playing years left!

LSanders
04-20-2010, 06:14 PM
The buttheads who are writing and saying his decision is a mistake also know nothing about Kyle or his family. He's a bright guy, and his family is full of D1 athletes. They know the landscape, know the opportunities, and respect him enough to allow him to make a decision with his heart.

I've read many, many interviews over the years with NBA players who talk about the League being a job. The last time basketball was FUN for them was in college. Laettner and Grant, in particular, have voice such opinions many times.

Like most of you, my time at Duke was magical, and I wasn't gifted enough to play a sport for someone like K. If it was me, I'd make the same decision. The NBA will always be there. College will not. Talk about one shining moment ...

weezie
04-20-2010, 06:19 PM
Just have to ignore the haters, hard as it may be.

Absolutely. Hold yourself above the common fray.
For crying out loud, you're a part of a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP fan base.
Keep your chins up and laugh snottily at those who would seek to drag you to their basement scum level.

ElSid
04-20-2010, 06:21 PM
Talk about one shining moment ...

Hopefully for Singler (and Smith) it's two shining moments...

jipops
04-20-2010, 07:12 PM
The difference in lottery pick money and lower 1st round money is a lot. A WHOLE lot. Next year's draft looking is relatively weak, much more so than this year's draft. Much of the 2010 1st round projects to have a number of college juniors. That most likely won't be the case next year with much of the top 10 projected to be current high school seniors.

I'm sure Kyle gave a lot of consideration to Duke and how much he likes it here. But I believe ultimately this came down to a financial decision. Battier is an excellent example. He was no threat to leave after his junior year but after his senior year he was the 7th pick in the draft (lottery money). Kyle has many of the same qualities with some added offensive assets. He also has some of the same weakness (a bit of a lack of athleticism). It is more than likely that Kyle will play his way into the fringe of the lottery at worst next year.

Time will show he made an excellent, well thought out decision here.

Newton_14
04-20-2010, 07:16 PM
Here is the thing. Our society has come to think that money is the end all be all and any decision that involves turning down money is wrong. I beg to differ.

We have trained most of these kids to believe that they should go to the NBA as fast as they possibly can and in doing so we have seemingly devalued the college basketball career.

In reality the NBA is not shutting down anytime soon and a guy like Singler will be a millionaire when he chooses to be one. I actually believe that leaving a legacy in college basketball is a great thing. Evidently it means a lot to Kyle Singler as well. Good for him. I am glad he values that. So he becomes a millionaire 1 year later than he could have. So what? Will he not make enough money when he does get there to last multiple lifetimes?

For the kids that have no interest in the college legacy and only want to make the NBA, good for them too. I have no issue with a John Wall wanting to go now. It is all about what is important to him. I would rather see him leave a college legacy first but it is his decision to make. I support him either way.
I do wish they would can the one and done rule and let guys like Wall go directly to the NBA if they want to.

There is no one size fits all here. Each kid is different. Each situation is different.
I will say this though. Many kids make a big mistake going early. They get bad advice and believe the hype. And many of them end up with nothing to show for their college or NBA career. How many Will Avery's have there been thru the years? But we never hear about those stories. They get swept under the rug.

Kentucky has 5 guys going. In my mind 3 are ready and 2 are not. I may be wrong but I think Bledsoe and Orton are making a mistake. Time will tell on those 2.

I hear you regarding the haters. Besides ignoring them, not much you can do. In the end, the haters will hate and if the subject is Duke they will spin it to find fault. I have learned to tune them out, laugh it off, or like my man OldNavy, turn the table on them, embrace the hate and tell them you agree with them. They have no answer for that approach.


I am happy for Singler. He is a great kid and he has a chance to leave a great legacy at Duke, get a degree, and guess what? A year from now he will be a very wealthy man. All on his terms. Good for him.

Scorp4me
04-20-2010, 09:12 PM
Surprisingly enough I think the time has passed when everyone jumps to the conclusion that a kid who stays in college when he could have gone is a bad decision. Most hail them as not only good decisions for enjoying college and the joys that come with remaining a kid, but also for the financial positives that come with another season in school. The draft situation is different than it used to be and while there are still injuries that happen to kids who stay, it's not the boogie man in the closet it used to be.

That being said I've seen nothing but positive comments about Kyle staying. If I were in his shoes I would stay. I did...although I wasn't near the talent playing at near the level he is turning down near the money. But I still did cause I enjoyed college. There's nothing wrong with that and I'm glad to see he is being praised for it.

Those portraying it as a negative thing are using outdated reasons or from a fan base that is...concerned we'll say. And for the record I loved it when Battier stayed. Heck, I hated Hansborough sticking around another year but I gave him his props. I love to see a kid stay in school and I love it even more when it simply because he enjoys it like Hasborough (as opposed to Lawson who wanted to leave but couldn't).

diveonthefloor
04-20-2010, 09:34 PM
Battier is an excellent example. He was no threat to leave after his junior year but after his senior year he was the 7th pick in the draft (lottery money).

Pretty sure Shane was 6th selection that year. (I remember because I live in Memphis and was at a meeting, glued to the radio feed of the draft that night....got up and screamed when Memphis picked Shane....startled a lot of my colleagues!) ha

jdj4duke
04-20-2010, 10:24 PM
Hi,

Why don't people say, "Wow," he is going back to College good for him?

People said to me, "I can't believe you like Duke so much." Why not? Why can't people believe it?


It is interesting that so much lip service is given to extolling the increasingly mythical student-athlete, but when a clearly superior basketball player (and one of many other student-athletes at Duke), and one who clearly enjoys Duke college life, chooses to remain in school, it's a "bad decision". Or, it's the result of some craven manipulation by the same coach who has garnered the respect of the entire NBA community. Of course it's ridiculous criticism.

One other perception and reaction to the several comments in the Kyle-related threads about IC- it really is a putrid mess of a place. To use the term "Duke haters" as a description gives too much credit. A significant number of posts there are either ad hominem replies or some torturous twisting of facts or perceptions to make some ridiculous or convoluted point about Duke or K (always cleverly misspelled of course). And, if you think Duke gets it bad over yonder way, check out some of the threads when an NCSU-UNC game is at hand.

IC is sometimes walks the line of racism, is most of the time misogynist, and is all of the time ignorant and reflexive to the point of comedy. It is also nearly devoid of any reflective or insightful comment about even UNC basketball, and especially about anything not directly UNC.

I swore off IC about 6 weeks ago. It is enough to hear similar nonsense live and from the occasional reaction to a Duke shirt or license plate. And my little rant here notwithstanding, it has been far more enjoyable to go through the last month without getting mental malaria from self-inflicted exposure to IC. As someone else (Dave Kay?) in another Kyle thread pointed out, it can be amusing to watch the melt-downs, but overall, the mean-spirited and humorless atmosphere of the place just isn't worth the time or aggravation. DBR is shaded the right color blue, but it also offers nourishment, a breadth of discussion, and objectivity that are never apparent at IC.

cspan37421
04-20-2010, 10:48 PM
jdj4duke, that was an awesomely well-written post. I have to take your word for it about IC - I simply don't bother with it.

While I think that there is a slightly rosy tint to our glasses, and sometimes we have a dimmer view than justified of certain programs, on balance things are far more sane and evenhanded here than just about anywhere else. I spoz that may be in part because the mods keep out the riff-raff.

Kewlswim
04-20-2010, 10:48 PM
Surprisingly enough I think the time has passed when everyone jumps to the conclusion that a kid who stays in college when he could have gone is a bad decision. Most hail them as not only good decisions for enjoying college and the joys that come with remaining a kid, but also for the financial positives that come with another season in school. The draft situation is different than it used to be and while there are still injuries that happen to kids who stay, it's not the boogie man in the closet it used to be.

That being said I've seen nothing but positive comments about Kyle staying. If I were in his shoes I would stay. I did...although I wasn't near the talent playing at near the level he is turning down near the money. But I still did cause I enjoyed college. There's nothing wrong with that and I'm glad to see he is being praised for it.

Those portraying it as a negative thing are using outdated reasons or from a fan base that is...concerned we'll say. And for the record I loved it when Battier stayed. Heck, I hated Hansborough sticking around another year but I gave him his props. I love to see a kid stay in school and I love it even more when it simply because he enjoys it like Hasborough (as opposed to Lawson who wanted to leave but couldn't).

Hi,

And this is from looking at IC and not from what anything I have heard/read elsewhere--I have never read so many people openly rooting for a kid to get injured. My goodness.

GO DUKE!

cspan37421
04-20-2010, 10:54 PM
the guy I was "arguing" with said, "see, you're assuming that I care to reason about this. Your jerseys say Duke and that's the beginning and end of my argument".

I'm starting to appreciate more and more that saying that "you can't reason someone out of an opinion that they weren't reasoned into."

What a sad and pathetic little person. I suppose the anonymity of the interwebs give cover to such pathetic justifications, and the ugliness that is rooting for a college player to have a career ending injury. If there was no anonymity, we might not really know what darkness lurks in the hearts of fans, for that sort of thing would generally get someone ostracized in society. But when you're anonymous, the savage nature is free to be unleashed.

ElSid
04-20-2010, 11:39 PM
I'm starting to appreciate more and more that saying that "you can't reason someone out of an opinion that they weren't reasoned into."

What a sad and pathetic little person. I suppose the anonymity of the interwebs give cover to such pathetic justifications, and the ugliness that is rooting for a college player to have a career ending injury. If there was no anonymity, we might not really know what darkness lurks in the hearts of fans, for that sort of thing would generally get someone ostracized in society. But when you're anonymous, the savage nature is free to be unleashed.

No anonymity involved, in my case. The guy was standing right next to me. He was a friend of a friend. We talked for a while about Duke. He said the usual things and I tried to offer evidence, history, math. He said we got the easiest bracket but then said Cal would kill us. It was awesome. It was easy to discredit his entire argument, as usual, but at the end he just said, look, I hate Duke...end of story. It was almost refreshing. But doesn't change the fact that he basically stuck his fingers in his ears and hummed to himself while I talked facts. It's a blissful, hateful, ignorance. Which only bothers me because, while the hate does enhance the victories in some ways, it diminishes it in others. I would have enjoyed beating a worthy, knowledgeable, opposing fan in an argument and then watching Duke win. Or at least I'd like to talk about it with other friends. At least we have each other, right.

moonpie23
04-21-2010, 12:11 AM
i've been trying something lately......whenever one of "those" people start in with any kind of anti-duke diatribe, i just say "82-50"...

they usually, get a blank stare on their face while their brains are trying to catch what that means.....then, when they do get it, it's usually a half-laugh and something like, "well, you guys got the easy bracket". to which, i reply, "82-50".

now they're irritated, so then it goes into, "well, you guys are losing all your faux rebounding and we're getting harrison barnes and we're gonna be back to reclaim our crown and blah, blah and blah.....

I wait a nice long pause and i say..... "82-50"

now it turns dark.....they clearly don't like that phrase....it's almost like the "Whatever" defense...there's NOTHING they can say about it... NOTHING..

if they're really stupid, they'll reach into the bag and pull out some jordan, or deano crap....or 5-4 or something......i just wait and say: "82-50"

so far it has debilitated several idiots, pressed others into saying something regarding my mother, and just plain pissing off a few...


revel in it......"82-50"....then, if they're REALLY stupid and arrogant enough to keep on coming, just say...."if duke didn't score a single point in the 2nd half, they still win"


that should lose you some of those "carolina buddies".......which is an oxymoron anyway...

Kewlswim
04-21-2010, 02:48 AM
i've been trying something lately......whenever one of "those" people start in with any kind of anti-duke diatribe, i just say "82-50"...

they usually, get a blank stare on their face while their brains are trying to catch what that means.....then, when they do get it, it's usually a half-laugh and something like, "well, you guys got the easy bracket". to which, i reply, "82-50".

now they're irritated, so then it goes into, "well, you guys are losing all your faux rebounding and we're getting harrison barnes and we're gonna be back to reclaim our crown and blah, blah and blah.....

I wait a nice long pause and i say..... "82-50"

now it turns dark.....they clearly don't like that phrase....it's almost like the "Whatever" defense...there's NOTHING they can say about it... NOTHING..

if they're really stupid, they'll reach into the bag and pull out some jordan, or deano crap....or 5-4 or something......i just wait and say: "82-50"

so far it has debilitated several idiots, pressed others into saying something regarding my mother, and just plain pissing off a few...


revel in it......"82-50"....then, if they're REALLY stupid and arrogant enough to keep on coming, just say...."if duke didn't score a single point in the 2nd half, they still win"


that should lose you some of those "carolina buddies".......which is an oxymoron anyway...

Hi,

This post is great. It left me with a big old grin. If people aren't going to be reasonable and are going to act like idiots I mind as well have a defense that is so silly as to actually become needling in its own way. I am not sure the Cal folks will think the same way, but then again I could just whip out that score too. ;)

GO DUKE!

oldnavy
04-21-2010, 06:28 AM
Maybe because I am older and my Carolina buddies are older, we do not have these ridiculous arguments. For the most part they understand that we were the much better team this year and congratulate me on a fine season. Every once in a while a an easy bracket will be mentioned, or a single bad call but then there are just as quickly dismissed. My younger son however is a different story, he is a blind hater and cannot get used to the fact that 1) Zoubek became a force at the end, 2) Duke did not get all the breaks, 3) And he believes that since UNC had Michael Jordan and Vince Carter they will always be the greatest program of all time. So my approach to that is what I have stated in the past, I just nod and agree with him, and tell him that Duke is really a horrible program, K is Satan and that we've been successful beyond comparison over the past 25 years simply on luck and conspiracy. He is just 17 at this point and the absurdity of that argument hasn't resonated yet, but one day when he gets to be about 25 or so I believe he will have an AH HA! moment and get it.

DukeVol
04-21-2010, 06:46 AM
Maybe because I am older and my Carolina buddies are older, we do not have these ridiculous arguments. For the most part they understand that we were the much better team this year and congratulate me on a fine season. Every once in a while a an easy bracket will be mentioned, or a single bad call but then there are just as quickly dismissed. My younger son however is a different story, he is a blind hater and cannot get used to the fact that 1) Zoubek became a force at the end, 2) Duke did not get all the breaks, 3) And he believes that since UNC had Michael Jordan and Vince Carter they will always be the greatest program of all time. So my approach to that is what I have stated in the past, I just nod and agree with him, and tell him that Duke is really a horrible program, K is Satan and that we've been successful beyond comparison over the past 25 years simply on luck and conspiracy. He is just 17 at this point and the absurdity of that argument hasn't resonated yet, but one day when he gets to be about 25 or so I believe he will have an AH HA! moment and get it.

You've clearly failed as a parent...;)

lotusland
04-21-2010, 07:38 AM
Absolutely. Hold yourself above the common fray.
For crying out loud, you're a part of a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP fan base.
Keep your chins up and laugh snottily at those who would seek to drag you to their basement scum level.

I'm a little less gracious. I have close Kentucky and UNC fans as close friends. I just play along with the paranoia. "Of course Duke gets all the calls. They're Duke why shouldn't they?" "Of course Cousins would have been tossed if he stomped a player like Laettner did. Cousins is a thug and Laettner is an all time great collegiate player who played for Duke" When I get Snarky e-mails from my UK bud I just reply with a photo of the Laettner shot. This tactic drives them nuts and gives me endless pleasure.

DukieInKansas
04-21-2010, 08:59 AM
I have a client that tries to get my goat if Duke loses a game. My typical response is that I don't think we could beat the Crittendon Home for Unwed Mothers and I think we are going to give up the sport. :D He never has a comeback for that.

gumbomoop
04-21-2010, 09:20 AM
I have a client that tries to get my goat if Duke loses a game. My typical response is that I don't think we could beat the Crittendon Home for Unwed Mothers and I think we are going to give up the sport. :D He never has a comeback for that.

Yeah, or how about something like this, re this year's NC: "Yeah, Duke wasn't even top 30, so I don't know how we won it this year. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love it, especially because it makes idiotic Duke Haters froth at the mouth, but yeah, it really was a big surprise, and I can't really explain how we could dominate West Va since they embarrassed UK.............. But, man, it's really nice......."

GODUKEGO
04-21-2010, 09:28 AM
One just needs to read the eight paragraph to answer the question why Kyle came back to Duke.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/04/21/447070/versatile-role-seen-for-singler.html

alteran
04-21-2010, 09:36 AM
Hi,

This post is great. It left me with a big old grin. If people aren't going to be reasonable and are going to act like idiots I mind as well have a defense that is so silly as to actually become needling in its own way. I am not sure the Cal folks will think the same way, but then again I could just whip out that score too. ;)

GO DUKE!

My cousin is a pretty obnoxious UNC fan. He had a pretty good gig going last year where he'd say something to get people going, and whenever he was losing the argument he'd fire back, with "kiss the ring."

I have a feeling he's going to see that phrase a lot this year.

4decadedukie
04-21-2010, 10:23 AM
Of course, it is not only Kyle this year, Nolan should also be included. Further, in recent years several NBA-level Dukies have received their degrees; at Duke, this is far more the rule than the exception. Anyone who fails to honor this, in my opinion, simply does not understand the essence of collegiate athletics and student-athletes (in every NCAA Division and sport).

A few weeks ago, Coach K responded to a Final Four press conference question by stating (not a precise quotation): "We recruit good kids, they are serious students and most graduate, they are also good citizens, and our program emphasizes teamwork and performance on the court, in the classroom and in the community. Too bad, if you don't like it."

I concur. While this feeds "Duke Hatred," I will NEVER apologize for doing things the correct way (and, frankly, in a continuously refined manner), regardless of jealousy, criticism, or claims of arrogance by those who opt to be ignorant.

BlueDevilCorvette!
04-21-2010, 10:31 AM
Folks are going to whine and complain about Duke no matter what. It's just sour grapes. However, there is nothing they can say to make Coach K pull that 2010 National Championship banner out the rafters; there is nothing they can say to make me stop wearing my Duke Championship T-Shirts proudly. I honestly take pride when my Duke T-Shirt illicits snide remarks because I know it hurts them. Just hold up one finger and say #1...that's all that needs to be said...plain and simple...and that's a fact jack!

jdj4duke
04-21-2010, 10:31 AM
My cousin is a pretty obnoxious UNC fan. He had a pretty good gig going last year where he'd say something to get people going, and whenever he was losing the argument he'd fire back, with "kiss the ring."

I have a feeling he's going to see that phrase a lot this year.

I slightly modify that phrase for particularly obnoxious UNC fans. But politely, and only after exhausting all diplomatic options. Sometimes, as pointed out above, you cannot reason with unreasonable opinions.

roywhite
04-21-2010, 10:44 AM
I slightly modify that phrase for particularly obnoxious UNC fans. But politely, and only after exhausting all diplomatic options. Sometimes, as pointed out above, you cannot reason with unreasonable opinions.

Safe to say that the UNC fanbase is pretty shaken these days. The events of the past season, with their own demise and Duke's ascendancy to the crown, did not even occur to them as possible.

As I read their feeble smack talk, they have concerns about their coach's ability to put together a team even with talented parts, and are saving their biggest boasts for incoming freshmen who have yet to play a game.

They really didn't expect Singler to return and it's taking all their verbal judo skills to blast Duke and Coach K for that, considering Hansbrough came back for his 4th year also.

Heel fans don't like what they see of Kyrie Irving (esp. compared to Kendall Marshall or Drew 2). All in all, they're shaking their heads at the unexpected turn in events. Things don't seem right in light blue land. So sad.

gumbomoop
04-21-2010, 10:58 AM
Safe to say that the UNC fanbase is pretty shaken these days. The events of the past season, with their own demise and Duke's ascendancy to the crown, did not even occur to them as possible.

As I read their feeble smack talk, they have concerns about their coach's ability to put together a team even with talented parts, and are saving their biggest boasts for incoming freshmen who have yet to play a game.

They really didn't expect Singler to return and it's taking all their verbal judo skills to blast Duke and Coach K for that, considering Hansbrough came back for his 4th year also.

Heel fans don't like what they see of Kyrie Irving (esp. compared to Kendall Marshall or Drew 2). All in all, they're shaking their heads at the unexpected turn in events. Things don't seem right in light blue land. So sad.

Yes, you got it right.

They are about quadruple-shell-shocked.
- Duke NC
- Roy?
- Singler
- Irving
- not even to mention NS, MP2, SC

Their assumed 10-20-year reign has been ominously derailed. Projection dysfunction. They need a pill.

Indoor66
04-21-2010, 12:20 PM
Yes, you got it right.

They are about quadruple-shell-shocked.
- Duke NC
- Roy?
- Singler
- Irving
- not even to mention NS, MP2, SC

Their assumed 10-20-year reign has been ominously derailed. Projection dysfunction. They need a pill.

Yeah, cyanide.

left_hook_lacey
04-21-2010, 12:27 PM
Two words for the haters: Tyler Hansbrough

How is Kyle Singler's situation different than Hansbrough's choice after his junior year? Hansbrough would have been in the bottom third of the first round (just as Kyle would be), but he didn't even test the waters. Was Roy selfish in that he worked his mind control to keep Hansbrough another year?

Yet, visit IC and the consensus is that Kyle is stupid for coming back and K (although they have another term for him there) is a selfish SOB who is manupulating the kid.

It's funny, because if you go back to Hansbrough's statements when he decided to return after 2008, he cited almost exactly the same reasons as Kyle mentioned this morning.

On second thought, I guess there is a different between them -- when Kyle reached the Final Four in his junior season, he didn't choke like Hansbrough and the Tar Heels did in 2008.

Actually, their pain (and the anguish on the Kentucky boards) is kind of satisfying to read and hear.

I think the main differences between Hansbrough's and Kyle's decisions after their Junior years are....

1.) Many feel that Kyle's stock will not get any higher than it is right now. He came up big in the tourney on a national stage, and they won the national championship. He has proven that he can play on the wing with this season which is where he will have to play in the NBA to be successful. But with the depth of guard talent we'll have next year, he will most likely get shuffled back down in the post, which will help us, but NBA scouts could care less about watching him play there. They'll be drafting him for wing play. So as far as from a draft stock standpoint, I think many people(including me) feel that Kyle's stock is at its pinnacle. Throw in the NBA lock-out that is sure to be, and playing another year becomes risky now. He's probably now 2 years away from getting to the NBA if they are locked out next season, not to metion, the biggest item on the lock-out agenda is player salaries. So, regardless if his draft stock is the same or not, the salary offered may be lower because of new rules.

compared to Hansbrough's Junior year...........

2.) After Hansbroughs junior year, UNC didn't win a national championship, and the last image anyone had of him and UNC was getting slaughtered by Kansas in the Final four, and he had yet to establish himself as a legit threat with mid-range, outside shooting( not that he ever did, but he did take and make several 3's and many jumpers his senior year). So I think the consensus with Hansbrough was that he had room to improve his stock, as well as finish his lifetime goal of winning a National Championship. He had said all along that he would stay all four years or until he won a National Championship. I think his draft position after staying and winning that National title, as well as performing big on the national stage, improved considerably. And maybe most important, there was no lockout on the horizon with all the "what if" scenarios that go along with that.

Bottom-line, I can see why some people see Kyle's decision to stay AFTER HIS JUNIOR YEAR, a bit more risky than Hansbrough's decision to stay AFTER HIS JUNIOR YEAR from an earning potential standpoint.

But IMO, I think playing his senior year, and possibly repeating are more important to Kyle than his rookie NBA salary. And I do think that K has some influence on these kids staying, but I don't think it's intentional. I think his kids just really love to play for him, and they feel like they're letting him and the team down if they leave early.

gumbomoop
04-21-2010, 01:54 PM
Yeah, cyanide.

Gack! [Presumably that would be the last sound coming from a Heel who had ingested your....... ummmm........ suggestion.]

I was being rather more sympathetic to the depression and ...... uh......... mental impotence of Heeldom these days, so the pill I was thinking of was....... something else.

But I doubt the Heels would take much more kindly to my suggestion than to yours, so maybe yours is the best way: Heels will never top Duke again, so just end it.

Lord Ash
04-21-2010, 02:03 PM
I think the main differences between Hansbrough's and Kyle's decisions after their Junior years are....

1.) Many feel that Kyle's stock will not get any higher than it is right now. He came up big in the tourney on a national stage, and they won the national championship. He has proven that he can play on the wing with this season which is where he will have to play in the NBA to be successful. But with the depth of guard talent we'll have next year, he will most likely get shuffled back down in the post, which will help us, but NBA scouts could care less about watching him play there. They'll be drafting him for wing play. So as far as from a draft stock standpoint, I think many people(including me) feel that Kyle's stock is at its pinnacle. Throw in the NBA lock-out that is sure to be, and playing another year becomes risky now. He's probably now 2 years away from getting to the NBA if they are locked out next season, not to metion, the biggest item on the lock-out agenda is player salaries. So, regardless if his draft stock is the same or not, the salary offered may be lower because of new rules.

compared to Hansbrough's Junior year...........

2.) After Hansbroughs junior year, UNC didn't win a national championship, and the last image anyone had of him and UNC was getting slaughtered by Kansas in the Final four, and he had yet to establish himself as a legit threat with mid-range, outside shooting( not that he ever did, but he did take and make several 3's and many jumpers his senior year). So I think the consensus with Hansbrough was that he had room to improve his stock, as well as finish his lifetime goal of winning a National Championship. He had said all along that he would stay all four years or until he won a National Championship. I think his draft position after staying and winning that National title, as well as performing big on the national stage, improved considerably. And maybe most important, there was no lockout on the horizon with all the "what if" scenarios that go along with that.

Bottom-line, I can see why some people see Kyle's decision to stay AFTER HIS JUNIOR YEAR, a bit more risky than Hansbrough's decision to stay AFTER HIS JUNIOR YEAR from an earning potential standpoint.

But IMO, I think playing his senior year, and possibly repeating are more important to Kyle than his rookie NBA salary. And I do think that K has some influence on these kids staying, but I don't think it's intentional. I think his kids just really love to play for him, and they feel like they're letting him and the team down if they leave early.

I think you are pretty far off base.

The first bolded part... very few people that I have read think that Kyle would be drafted higher this year than next. Next years draft is fairly thin compared to this one in regards to players Kyle would compete with. As for the lockout; as people who know a lot more about it than I do have said, the NBA and its players will not allow themselves to lose all that money... it likely won't last long, and almost certainly not an entire season. And as someone who worked on both sides of the bargaining table in pro sports, I think I can safely say that salaries are not going to be going down much, if at all.

The next bolded part... NBA teams don't care much about NCAA titles. In fact, if you look at the top ten picks of the last ten years, I bet the VAST VAST majority of them did not win any title. However, Tyler DID win 2008 Player of the Year and ACC Player of the Year, meaning he was the best player in college basketball. There is an awful lot of room to fall, draft-wise from there. I don't see how the National Player of the Year had a lot to work on, but a guy whose name never really came up during that discussion did.

Tyler and Kyle both came back for similar reasons... they enjoyed college, and they felt like they could grow more. Unlike you, I don't think there is any real difference between the two as far as maximizing draft positions and coming back for their senior years.

drdoctormd
04-21-2010, 02:46 PM
Hi,

I have not been to a Terps board, I did take a peek at the IC meltdown. Sports writers/talk personalities who went to places such as UNLV, people who are casual basketball fans (though they do tend to root for UNC) those folks...many of them are saying Kyle's decision is a mistake.

GO DUKE!

Those are prolly the same people who said Duhon and Redick would never make it in the pros. As if they know, or I care about what they think.

As far as a K being selfish or whatever, I honestly can't think of anything further from the truth. He's developed a network of people in the basketball world who can give an honest appraisal and provide valuable insight into "what people in the know" are saying about a kid's draft prospects. I think that's one reason his involvement in Olympic hoops should matter to potential Duke recruits: the message should be K is connected when it comes to draft time.

Frankly I can't remember too many guys who actually had a chance to go early then stayed at Duke....I'm usually quite pessimistic when I start hearing "Is X going to the NBA next year?" because it usually does happen, and K is usually a big part of it. The only person I ever remember him publicly encouraging to stay in school was Will Avery.

And guess what? That would've been better for Will in the end I think.

weezie
04-21-2010, 02:53 PM
the UNC fanbase....it's taking all their verbal judo skills to blast Duke and Coach K

Verbal judo skills?! That's meant to be a joke, right??? :cool:

UrinalCake
04-21-2010, 03:12 PM
I was going to post almost exactly what Left_Hook_Lacey said. After his junior year Hansbrough was considered a second-rounder at best, which is a big difference from the fringe lottery pick that Singler would have been. The book on Hans was that he needed to demonstrate an outside shot, and you could see him showcasing that skill his senior year. In addition, he was comfortably in range of breaking the ACC scoring record and numerous UNC records.

Also, the fact that he never even flirted with leaving might have shielded him from some of the criticism. When Kyle left open the possibility of declaring, then didn't, that allowed people to claim he wasn't good enough or whatever.

Regardless, these are good times. Don't let the critics and random posters on other message boards get you down.

Dukeface88
04-21-2010, 03:12 PM
Folks are going to whine and complain about Duke no matter what. It's just sour grapes. However, there is nothing they can say to make Coach K pull that 2010 National Championship banner out the rafters; there is nothing they can say to make me stop wearing my Duke Championship T-Shirts proudly. I honestly take pride when my Duke T-Shirt illicits snide remarks because I know it hurts them. Just hold up one finger and say #1...that's all that needs to be said...plain and simple...and that's a fact jack!

I used to do that. I stopped during the tournament and started holding up 4 instead.

Hopefully next year I can use the whole hand.

Troublemaker
04-21-2010, 03:22 PM
The buttheads who are writing and saying his decision is a mistake also know nothing about Kyle or his family. He's a bright guy, and his family is full of D1 athletes. They know the landscape, know the opportunities, and respect him enough to allow him to make a decision with his heart.

Indeed. It always amazes me how angry, fat, stained-UNC-shirt-wearing, self-pleasuring-to-inappropriate-content internet losers can decipher what's best for Kyle Singler and unearth Mike Krzyzewski's ulterior motives, but ultra-successful, happy people like Singler and his parents are too stupid to figure out what's best for him.

My advice to Kewlswim... just ignore the haters, at least in this particular case. They're so insignificant.

left_hook_lacey
04-21-2010, 03:31 PM
I think you are pretty far off base.

The first bolded part... very few people that I have read think that Kyle would be drafted higher this year than next. Next years draft is fairly thin compared to this one in regards to players Kyle would compete with. As for the lockout; as people who know a lot more about it than I do have said, the NBA and its players will not allow themselves to lose all that money... it likely won't last long, and almost certainly not an entire season. And as someone who worked on both sides of the bargaining table in pro sports, I think I can safely say that salaries are not going to be going down much, if at all.

The next bolded part... NBA teams don't care much about NCAA titles. In fact, if you look at the top ten picks of the last ten years, I bet the VAST VAST majority of them did not win any title. However, Tyler DID win 2008 Player of the Year and ACC Player of the Year, meaning he was the best player in college basketball. There is an awful lot of room to fall, draft-wise from there. I don't see how the National Player of the Year had a lot to work on, but a guy whose name never really came up during that discussion did.

Tyler and Kyle both came back for similar reasons... they enjoyed college, and they felt like they could grow more. Unlike you, I don't think there is any real difference between the two as far as maximizing draft positions and coming back for their senior years.

Touche' about Tyler being NPOY in 2008. I don't look at personal awards when it comes to a persons ability at the next level, but national player of the year is a hard one to ignore, so good point there.

But I disagree with you about the NBA lockout. I think the NBA as a league is in serious trouble when a team like the Cavs has sold out 79 games in a row, but they'll need to make it to the NBA finals to make a profit this year according to this report. http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/04/nba_playoff_run_necessary_for.html

The owners want to reduce the salary cap for the 3rd year in a row, and they want to reduce "franchise" player's salaries even more. I'm not an economics expert, but I smell serious trouble brewing. And you're probably right about the player's and owners not wanting to lose money, but I think if this thing is resolved quickly, the players will see the biggest impact in their salaries, and that will trickle down to the rookies.

And if this lockout does last a season, that means seniors and early entries will have to sit out a draft, which will mean there will be twice as many players in the following draft.

Onlyduke
04-21-2010, 03:37 PM
I think you have to be older ..... 40, 50 or even 60 ..... to realize you can't "go back" and relive times in your life that you wish you could do over. I think Kyle knows he's only going to be a college senior .... with his classmates .....for one year and next year is that year.

Yes, everyone will tell you that you can come back and finish up and get your diploma at some point in your life, but if he did that, his friends will not be there.

I applaud his decision ..... not only because he'll make Duke that much better ..... but because he won't be looking back in years to come and wish he had stayed for his senior year.

You can't go back.

elvis14
04-22-2010, 12:01 AM
After last year's tragedy and the way we couldn't beat the Holes in CIS, I've kept quiet for a long time. I'm done with that. Someone bashes Duke Hoops around me right now and I tell them where to stick it. I ask Carowhina fans how they liked that NIT final and the 82-50 drubbing. When we didn't have the success, I kept quiet. Now, screw 'em, they need to shut the hell up until they can do better. If we repeat I'm going to get seriously boisterous!

As for Tyler Hanscheater, as others have said, it's not a good comparison because he didn't win the national championship and get named tournament MOP, etc. as Kyle did. Let's not forget that NBA teams are aware that when you draft HansTravel that you don't get to bring the ACC refs with him :D. He stayed in school because he wanted to try to get into the first round. Sadly, it worked.