putting the whole Harrison Barnes thing to rest

[fgb]

something that occurred to me:

we were presumably going to lose singler, so we recruited barnes to replace him. we of course lost barnes to the heels.

we then pursued several back up options, and came out with felix to fill that spot.

now kyle comes back.

i propose the following:

1 senior season of singler + 3 yrs of felix > 1 freshman season of barnes.

i don't even think it's close, really. we came out way ahead on this one.

[hedevil]

Agreed. We did come out ahead on this one. Unfortunately for HB, he came out behind. Oh well.:D

[amazinballer323]

Can we just play a what if though?

What if Barnes said he would come to Duke. Then Felix decided to come still, assuming Barnes would leave after a season.

Then Singler came back for s's and g's knowing he could easily pull a national title playing the 4 with some outside run for this team.

Wow.

[illinoisdukie]

Can we just play a what if though?

What if Barnes said he would come to Duke. Then Felix decided to come still, assuming Barnes would leave after a season.

Then Singler came back for s's and g's knowing he could easily pull a national title playing the 4 with some outside run for this team.

Wow.

I don't think if Barnes was coming that Felix would of had gotten a look at all.

[bluedevil2012]

1 senior season of singler + 3 yrs of felix > 1 freshman season of barnes.

I don't think he's one and done. He's got a pile of AP credits and wants to graduate early with a business degree, and that's not happening in one year. Of course, he could have a stellar freshman year, and be anointed the #1 overall pick, forcing his hand a little, but I doubt it.

[El_Diablo]

You know the best way to put a topic to rest? By not starting more threads on it.

[JohnGalt]

I don't think he's one and done. He's got a pile of AP credits and wants to graduate early with a business degree, and that's not happening in one year. Of course, he could have a stellar freshman year, and be anointed the #1 overall pick, forcing his hand a little, but I doubt it.

I agree. As such:

1yr Singler + 2yrs Carrick + 1yr Gbinije > Prince Harry


You know the best way to put a topic to rest? By not starting more threads on it.

Another way is to not read and/or comment if you don't care for it.

[Kedsy]

I don't think he's one and done. He's got a pile of AP credits and wants to graduate early with a business degree, and that's not happening in one year. Of course, he could have a stellar freshman year, and be anointed the #1 overall pick, forcing his hand a little, but I doubt it.

I agree with this. Especially if a lockout is looming, I think odds are he'll stay two years (same with Kyrie, by the way).

[lotusland]

I don't think he's one and done. He's got a pile of AP credits and wants to graduate early with a business degree, and that's not happening in one year. Of course, he could have a stellar freshman year, and be anointed the #1 overall pick, forcing his hand a little, but I doubt it.

During the Jordan Brand All Star game one of the announcers quoted HB as saying he wanted to be the #1 pick in 2011. Doesn't sound like he plans to unpack his bags to me.

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

You know the best way to put a topic to rest? By not starting more threads on it.

HAHAHAHA I agree, how do you make a thread and say let's stop talking about something? That's the opposite of what threads are made for.

[mattman91]

Good thing Harrison didnt choose Duke. he would ride the bench...:D

[TheBrianZoubekExperience]

I expect HB to leave after a year but I'd still love to have him next year not only because he's be a great addition and could play with Singler bu becuase it takes something away from UNC. Plus I think the kid will be really solid in the NBA and I would love a top level Duke guy to root for in the NBA (hopefully in addition to Kyrie). Wonder what Barnes thinks about his decision now. On one hand we are kind of crowded so if by some chance he struggles he might not get the same guaranteed minutes or might not be the focus of the offense as he could very well be at UNC but on the other hand if he's only in college for one year and had signed with us we'd be insanely stacked and it would have given him a really good chance to win a title in his frosh year.

[PaIronDuke]

Most of us are described by what really worries us. I, like many of you, was at the time totally buffaloed by the HB incident. It's past history-past history-and we've had a glorious run since, with perhaps many more to come. Let's at this moment declare a complete, permanent moratorium on all things HB, and revel in our basketball blessings-past, present, anf future.

Please, fellows, please.......

[moonpie23]

please....just lock this...

[Starter]

Hate it or love it, Duke will always be inextricably tied to Harrison Barnes because of his pedigree and for the way the recruitment began and ended. When watching UNC next season, most fans will have no choice but to think about what could have been if he had decided to come to Duke. That means he remains a fascination and conversation topic for us. It's not that we're just going to ignore him. He impressed me greatly at the Jordan Game with his talent and motor.

But it makes it a whole lot easier to talk about this considering Duke won the national title. Way to pick the NIT runner-ups instead of the national champions, Barnes. Go play for the guy saying his life's worse than Haiti or whatever.

:cool:

[mgtr]

To paraphrase Mickey and Sylvia, life is strange. Of course, we really wanted HB. But, as others have pointed out, Singler as a senior is woth much more than HB as a freshman. Thus, everything works out for the best in this best of all possible worlds.

[ACCBBallFan]

It will take Duke fans longer to get over Harrison Barnes than it did for other guys like Patteron, Monroe, Boynton. Can't win em all though K, Roy, Calipari, Self, Izzo et al keep trying. More like the Brandan Wright thing where you lose a guy and rival gains one for net of -2, especially since HB has so many Battier, Grant Hill type of "Duke attributes", before his decision.

All trash talk aside what would have worked out best for both Kyle and Harrison is if they could have practiced against the other best guy at their position every day in practice, with a top notch PG to feed them the ball, and both would be higher NBA picks.

On flip side, they both leave after next year and Duke has to scramble to develop a WF from whoever did not x-fer or come on baord at all.

Besides the plus/minus already cited, there could have been a negative impact on Ryan Kelly or Plumlees who are good enough to blossom this year when given the opportunity (hopefully without a wrist injury that slowed Mason's progress).

That would ripple over to Andre/Seth too with no opportunity to get some WF minutes making SG very crowded.

I don't think Kyle stays though if Barnes comes on board as his work of finding his own replacement before he can leave is done.

So all things work out for a reason, mama Barnes and G.O.A.T are happy and #12 will be in the rafters.

[gep]

As they say... play the cards you were dealt, and go forward with it. In this case, I think the cards ended up pretty good...:D Actually, I'm not sure it could be better, given all that has happened...

[ricks68]

To paraphrase Mickey and Sylvia, life is strange. Of course, we really wanted HB. But, as others have pointed out, Singler as a senior is woth much more than HB as a freshman. Thus, everything works out for the best in this best of all possible worlds.

Love is strange.

I'm an old guy. I bought that record when I was a kid.:eek:

ricks

[Starter]

I don't think Kyle stays though if Barnes comes on board as his work of finding his own replacement before he can leave is done.



I agree with most all of your points, except that I don't think Barnes coming would have had any relevance on Singler's decision.

[mgtr]

Love is strange.

I'm an old guy. I bought that record when I was a kid.:eek:

ricks

I bought that and some others (Up on a Mountain by the Magnificents) from Randys Record Shop in Gallatin Tennessee, sponsor of a late night program on WLAC in Memphis. In the midwest in the mid 1950s, that was your only source of real R&B, and you could only get the station late at night, best on a car radio (which had some other advantages!) :D

[Emeritus]

WOW...some peers from yesteryears..I do remember laying (I know it's "lying", but you don't know what I was doing) awake many nights listening to WLAC..small correction tho', it was in Nashville, TN not Memphis, and the record shop was Randy's Record Mart in Gallatin...those clear channel stations were beacons in the night for this guy in the '50's and '60's. WCKY, WWMO, WSN, a station in New Orleans, and one in Buffalo with The Wolfman... I still twitch when I hear Hank Ballard or Jimmy Reed.. Now that was music, right guys???

[mgtr]

You are absolutely right, WLAC was in Nashville. I bow to your better memory.

[Cockabeau]

We won out the second Kyle hoisted the trophy up.

Kyle fighting for a back to back> HB one year MJ impersonation.

Having said that, I got a sense in the back of my mind when I watched the HB, KI,RB,KM youtube goof video for the Mickey D AA game.

I sense that HB had a little buyers remorse going on...

I mean :

1)why drive a Pinto (KM) or a Gremlin(Drew2) when you can drive a Aston Martin(KI)?
2) The whole MJ thing tends to wear off after awhile. But if that your rational for picking a school.....gl to you.

[dukeimac]

You know the best way to put a topic to rest? By not starting more threads on it.

Ah, let the kids have some non-sense to talk about.

There will be no lock out. If anyone knows how the union works and the strength of the union today, this won't happen, again. Seriously, do you think the public would feel bad if the players don't get what they want. Lets see, Arenas should get more money for carrying a gun to work, Wallace is so good for Boston that he should get more money, how many players have they done stories on that are broke today because of their drug habits, Koby needs more money to attract young ladies to his hotel room, etc. Do you really think the public will side with the players? The union knows this.

Barnes is already anointed the #1 pick in 2010 by many scouts. How many players have passed that up? His comment comes because he thinks there will be a lock out but once he gets to know his union buddies he'll more than likely change his mind.

[DoubleDuke Dad]

To paraphrase Mickey and Sylvia, life is strange. Of course, we really wanted HB. But, as others have pointed out, Singler as a senior is woth much more than HB as a freshman. Thus, everything works out for the best in this best of all possible worlds.

Candide … I mean indeed!:)

[killerleft]

ACCBBallFan says:

"It will take Duke fans longer to get over Harrison Barnes than it did for other guys like Patteron, Monroe, Boynton..."

?? Are you kidding? A National Championship and Kyle Singler staying trumps a self-pronounced one-&-done quite nicely, thank you.

Mr. Barnes made the right decision for him and us. We've got too many good players for K to give him the minutes he needs to preen for the NBA folks. And our team can focus on that TEAM thing, again.

Good luck to you, Mr. Barnes!

[JohnGalt]

ACCBBallFan says:

"It will take Duke fans longer to get over Harrison Barnes than it did for other guys like Patteron, Monroe, Boynton..."

?? Are you kidding? A National Championship and Kyle Singler staying trumps a self-pronounced one-&-done quite nicely, thank you.

Mr. Barnes made the right decision for him and us. We've got too many good players for K to give him the minutes he needs to preen for the NBA folks. And our team can focus on that TEAM thing, again.

Good luck to you, Mr. Barnes!

You must have Harrison confused with someone else. He's stated very plainly and consistently his interest in academics and there's been nothing to date that would suggest otherwise. It can't be laid on him that his talent dictates others to label him as a 'One and Doner."

[roywhite]

I'm fine with HB being over in Chapel Hill. Really didn't like the way he handled his recruitment last fall and especially that he did not contact Coach K and other involved schools prior to his announcement (and didn't really care for the Skype nonsense).

Saw HB (Kyrie Irving and Sullinger were on also) on Sports Nation last week with our Jason Williams sitting in as a co-host. Each of the players got to ask a question or two of Jason Williams; HB asked him how it was that he was named "Player of the Year" and how should one try to reach that goal. Seemed pretty self-centered to me...an individual goal rather than a team goal.

He's a good player and will probably help the Tarheels this year. Nevertheless, he's on the opposite side of the rivalry now. Won't mind seeing him lose a few to the Devils.

[UrinalCake]

Well, since Jordan is his idol, I for one hope that Barnes can be just like Mike... in business

[yancem]

You must have Harrison confused with someone else. He's stated very plainly and consistently his interest in academics and there's been nothing to date that would suggest otherwise. It can't be laid on him that his talent dictates others to label him as a 'One and Doner."

Except that (as others have posted above) he stated that he wanted to be the #1 pick in the 2011 draft when interviewed at the Jordan game.

I think he is serious about getting and education but I think he cares more for the pro game than the college game. I also think that he is smart enough to realize that he can take courses during the summer to complete his degree. Many nba players have come back and finished their course load.

[airowe]

Well, since Jordan is his idol, I for one hope that Barnes can be just like Mike... in business

He wants to be like Mike so bad. He's listed his height at 6'6" even though he's 6'7" because that's how tall Michael was. Obviously, his Mom is obsessed as she taped all of Jordan's games and made Harrison watch them instead of Saturday Morning cartoons. We know Shirley named both her kids after MJ.

The kicker for me, and one you may not know, is that Barnes hired security to work his High School Basketball games to keep child autograph seekers away from him. As long as he doesn't hit a game winner in the title game, I'll be happy if he takes on all of Jordan's other qualities.

[flyingdutchdevil]

As long as he doesn't hit a game winner in the title game, I'll be happy if he takes on all of Jordan's other qualities.

As in the greatest modern player of all time? The individual who took basketball from an American sport to a global one? The most idolized modern sports figure most-Pele? I really hope Barnes is none of the above. I already that to deal with the fact that the greatest modern basketball player went to UNC. I can't take any others.

[airowe]

As in the greatest modern player of all time? The individual who took basketball from an American sport to a global one? The most idolized modern sports figure most-Pele? I really hope Barnes is none of the above. I already that to deal with the fact that the greatest modern basketball player went to UNC. I can't take any others.

I don't care what he does as long he doesn't make it 6-5. ;)

[flyingdutchdevil]

I don't care what he does as long he doesn't make it 6-5. ;)

Guess that's where we differ. I do care what he does, just like a lot of other UNC players. The worse they do, the better. Why do you think the Duke committee had a smile on their face every time someone talked about UNC this year?

[Starter]

The kicker for me, and one you may not know, is that Barnes hired security to work his High School Basketball games to keep child autograph seekers away from him.

Interesting, but not surprising. I watched this guy surround himself with people and bolt out of the Garden to the bus covering his face like he was Michael Jackson (RIP) escaping the paparazzi. Meanwhile, Kyrie signed autographs for every single person that wanted them. In a Duke hat. We got the right kid.

[ElSid]

The kicker for me, and one you may not know, is that Barnes hired security to work his High School Basketball games to keep child autograph seekers away from him.

This seems absurd and I won't believe it without some real evidence. My family in Iowa has nothing but positive things to say about this kid. He's smart, well spoken, works very hard, is a great player, and has brought positive attention to the sport in an oft neglected part of the country...I mean, not since Fred Hoiberg has central Iowa seen such a good player. Can we hold the character-questioning posts unless you have some hard evidence? I can't stand UNC but you can't blame this kid for wanting to go there. I know it's more fun to paint him as a villain to be vanquished but I frankly don't see that being the case. He went to the school with more sex appeal, with more opportunity to have an immediate impact, with more NBA flair, and with the coach that won't implement as rigid and disciplined a system...and the alma mater of his childhood hero. Sure, he would have had a much better chance to win a title at Duke, but some of that is hindsight now. His commitment came before the complete meltdown at UNC.

Frankly, this kid is leaps and bounds ahead of MJ on character traits coming into college. From what I can tell, the best thing MJ had going for him was unbridled competitive fire and a willingness to work hard. Just wanted to win everything he did. Barnes is at least an AP Scholar.

Sorry to be defending a UNC kid so vigorously, but let's keep it all in perspective.

All this being said, I fully agree we got the right kid. I've seen interviews with both players and I think Kyrie is a more genuinely nice kid and will be a better teammate. His motto is hungry and humble. You can't go wrong. But Harrison isn't a villain...until I see some evidence to the contrary.

Now, Reggie Bullock on the other hand...he lost any benefit of the doubt talking smack in that video, twice, about how no one on Duke can guard him on the wing. Funny, because I saw some people guard him pretty well in these High School all-star games where basically no defense gets played. He'll be fun to beat.

[gumbomoop]

This seems absurd and I won't believe it without some real evidence. My family in Iowa has nothing but positive things to say about this kid. He's smart, well spoken, works very hard, is a great player, and has brought positive attention to the sport in an oft neglected part of the country...I mean, not since Fred Hoiberg has central Iowa seen such a good player. Can we hold the character-questioning posts unless you have some hard evidence? I can't stand UNC but you can't blame this kid for wanting to go there. I know it's more fun to paint him as a villain to be vanquished but I frankly don't see that being the case. He went to the school with more sex appeal, with more opportunity to have an immediate impact, with more NBA flair, and with the coach that won't implement as rigid and disciplined a system...and the alma mater of his childhood hero. Sure, he would have had a much better chance to win a title at Duke, but some of that is hindsight now. His commitment came before the complete meltdown at UNC.

Frankly, this kid is leaps and bounds ahead of MJ on character traits coming into college. From what I can tell, the best thing MJ had going for him was unbridled competitive fire and a willingness to work hard. Just wanted to win everything he did. Barnes is at least an AP Scholar.

Sorry to be defending a UNC kid so vigorously, but let's keep it all in perspective.

All this being said, I fully agree we got the right kid. I've seen interviews with both players and I think Kyrie is a more genuinely nice kid and will be a better teammate. His motto is hungry and humble. You can't go wrong. But Harrison isn't a villain...until I see some evidence to the contrary.

Now, Reggie Bullock on the other hand...he lost any benefit of the doubt talking smack in that video, twice, about how no one on Duke can guard him on the wing. Funny, because I saw some people guard him pretty well in these High School all-star games where basically no defense gets played. He'll be fun to beat.

Very good post, with the exception of "rigid." K sure preaches "discipline," but "rigidity," nope. K is so much more aware [than, for example, Roy] of game-and-player nuances that the last thing he is, is rigid. People who didn't know K, then meet him and see him as coach, are invariably surprised at how subtle and complex is his understanding of the game and his players. [Not to mention how funny -- his, alas, all-too-hidden, strength.]

[bass-piscator]

Dear God!

I went over to the IC board to get their view of things. Its 90% 12 year olds. They're ranting how HBFU is going to school Singler. Hey, HBFU may be very good but he's not going to school a senior AA. They even have a thread about who is uglier, Kyle or Ryan. Can you imagine. One poster, TrustInRoy, is a must read. I don't know if he could even be 12. Either that or some bully wearing a Duke shirt beat him up in elementary school.

[ElSid]

Very good post, with the exception of "rigid." K sure preaches "discipline," but "rigidity," nope. K is so much more aware [than, for example, Roy] of game-and-player nuances that the last thing he is, is rigid. People who didn't know K, then meet him and see him as coach, are invariably surprised at how subtle and complex is his understanding of the game and his players. [Not to mention how funny -- his, alas, all-too-hidden, strength.]

Fair enough. I do appreciate K's ability to adjust to his personnel. He's proven he can do this time and again. And Roy proved this year, in execution and in comments ("I'm doing the same thing I've done for 18 years"), that maybe he doesn't have the same chops. I guess I was going more for the fact that K discourages a lot of tattoos, doesn't seem to allow long hair, has only once allowed a beard, etc. The military approach. You have to be a certain type of kid to want to embrace that. I think Barnes actually could have been a good fit in that type of system, but I'm open to the other view point. It's gotta be a blast to be a star player in Carolina.

Frankly, I wish K would let Singler grow his hair out like he did in High School so we could bring back the old nickname "Shampoo". I think that's hilarious.

[hedevil]

I hope this hair issue doesn't keep A Rivers from coming to DUKE. :D

[Duke of Nashville]

Fair enough. I do appreciate K's ability to adjust to his personnel. He's proven he can do this time and again. And Roy proved this year, in execution and in comments ("I'm doing the same thing I've done for 18 years"), that maybe he doesn't have the same chops. I guess I was going more for the fact that K discourages a lot of tattoos, doesn't seem to allow long hair, has only once allowed a beard, etc. The military approach. You have to be a certain type of kid to want to embrace that. I think Barnes actually could have been a good fit in that type of system, but I'm open to the other view point. It's gotta be a blast to be a star player in Carolina.

Frankly, I wish K would let Singler grow his hair out like he did in High School so we could bring back the old nickname "Shampoo". I think that's hilarious.

I thought it was "the wig"

[Starter]

This seems absurd and I won't believe it without some real evidence.

Well...


I watched this guy surround himself with people and bolt out of the Garden to the bus covering his face like he was Michael Jackson (RIP) escaping the paparazzi.

[Starter]

That said, ElSid, I think your comments on why he committed there were dead-on. I think at that point, Carolina was the It School. They had just won a championship and played an uptempo style, while Duke kind of had a stale air around it. Interesting how things have changed -- particularly for Duke -- in the span of five months.

[airowe]

The story I posted is from a High School coach that coached against Ames High this season. I don't want to question your family ElSid, but did they catch a bunch of Ames games this year?

Regardless, I agree we should put this guy behind us. He's not the guy we thought him to be (he's the player, but that's besides the point,) and he doesn't play for Duke. He'll always be a tarheel to me and I'll never wish we got him anymore than I do Brandan Wright.

[SupaDave]

I would close this thread but you know what? There is no putting HB behind us. He's front and center and will remain to be for at least the next year. Get used to him - but as a UNC student. His recruitment is long gone and there are many that need to accept that. The kid is outstanding and will probably remain to be regardless of his personality quirks.

I think if we can all focus on HB the basketball player then folks around here will be a lot happier. Let's change the practice of inserting him into every recruiting thread and using him as a personal mental avatar for recruits we wished we had. He's a kid. He made a choice. HE has got to live with it - and we get to watch. Now where's my popcorn?

[grateful_duke]

As long as Barnes doesn't lead the Tar Holes to the Title next year we're laughing...

[sandinmyshoes]

Basketball rivalry does some very odd things to people.

Attacking Barnes' character? Do you realize what it says about Coach K? That he can't judge character? That he's not involved enough in the recruiting process to get a feel for a guy's character?

And what about Kyrie? He and Barnes are very good friends. Best friends it would seem. How could our guy be so friendly with the Barnes some of you are dreaming up?

Really, can't we leave that kind of nonsense to the 12 year olds on IC and TDD?

[davekay1971]

Gotta say this whole Harrison Barnes thing does have the tone of a guy who got turned down for the prom by a hot girl who decided to go to the prom with another guy who the first guy just can't stand.

First we had shock (how could she pick that guy?)

Then we doubted ourselves (maybe I'm just not that good of a catch after all...maybe I should change my hairstyle...this prom is going to suck)

Then we had anger and bitterness (look at her, she's so full of herself)

Finally we ended up having a great senior year anyway and got another really hot girl to go with us and got over it (see, forget her, I rock...and my new girl is so much cooler anyway)

But still we can't help paying a little too much attention to her, even if it is just to rip her a little (hah, look at her, she's so just using that moron for his ride).

Time to move on. Remember the wise words: no matter how hot she is, some guy, somewhere, is sick of her crap.

[Mike Corey]

Barnes is a teenager. He gets some slack.

I just hope he's as good as he thinks he is.

[ice-9]

Gotta say this whole Harrison Barnes thing does have the tone of a guy who got turned down for the prom by a hot girl who decided to go to the prom with another guy who the first guy just can't stand.

First we had shock (how could she pick that guy?)

Then we doubted ourselves (maybe I'm just not that good of a catch after all...maybe I should change my hairstyle...this prom is going to suck)

Then we had anger and bitterness (look at her, she's so full of herself)

Finally we ended up having a great senior year anyway and got another really hot girl to go with us and got over it (see, forget her, I rock...and my new girl is so much cooler anyway)

But still we can't help paying a little too much attention to her, even if it is just to rip her a little (hah, look at her, she's so just using that moron for his ride).

Time to move on. Remember the wise words: no matter how hot she is, some guy, somewhere, is sick of her crap.


Hahahahaha I love this analogy.

She's the girl who played hot and cold, who did just enough to make you think she wants you only to choose the douche at the last minute and in a most public manner. You feel like you were tricked to needlessly spending all that money on dates when all along she was never all that interested.

[OldPhiKap]

Barnes is a teenager. He gets some slack.


Agreed.


I just hope he's as good as he thinks he is.

This is where we differ. ;>)



I agree with whoever above compared this to getting jilted for the prom. I don't get all the angst. We have good players, they have good players. If this isn't the program he wants to be in, he shouldn't be here. Good luck to him and to all.

And GTH,C.

[CrazieDUMB]

Gotta say this whole Harrison Barnes thing does have the tone of a guy who got turned down for the prom by a hot girl who decided to go to the prom with another guy who the first guy just can't stand.

First we had shock (how could she pick that guy?)

Then we doubted ourselves (maybe I'm just not that good of a catch after all...maybe I should change my hairstyle...this prom is going to suck)

Then we had anger and bitterness (look at her, she's so full of herself)

Finally we ended up having a great senior year anyway and got another really hot girl to go with us and got over it (see, forget her, I rock...and my new girl is so much cooler anyway)

But still we can't help paying a little too much attention to her, even if it is just to rip her a little (hah, look at her, she's so just using that moron for his ride).

Time to move on. Remember the wise words: no matter how hot she is, some guy, somewhere, is sick of her crap.

Instead we went with our old GF that we like better anyway. Seriously, I know he's a super recruit but there's barely any space on this team with Singler above him at his position.

Just felt a little weird calling singler my gf....

[SupaDave]

Instead we went with our old GF that we like better anyway. Seriously, I know he's a super recruit but there's barely any space on this team with Singler above him at his position.

Just felt a little weird calling singler my gf....

Weird but not enough to be uncomfortable apparently. LOL! :)

[CDu]

The story I posted is from a High School coach that coached against Ames High this season. I don't want to question your family ElSid, but did they catch a bunch of Ames games this year?

Regardless, I agree we should put this guy behind us. He's not the guy we thought him to be (he's the player, but that's besides the point,) and he doesn't play for Duke. He'll always be a tarheel to me and I'll never wish we got him anymore than I do Brandan Wright.

I always cringe when I see comments like this. The kid made the choice based on what he felt was best for him. He made a choice between two very similar schools/programs.

Your statement borders on questioning his character/values. Maybe that's not what you meant, but it certainly comes across that way. And I think that's kind of inappropriate.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I always cringe when I see comments like this. The kid made the choice based on what he felt was best for him. He made a choice between two very similar schools/programs.

Programs, yes. Schools - really? UNC and Duke are quite different, and not just due to the private / public debate.

Academic focus, demographics, offerings, research potential - there are a lot of differences. As I'm sure you know, Duke's academics are a large part of the reason that Duke gets a lot of great recruits.

As much as I wanted HB, what really got me wondering is his choice of academic schools. UNC is pretty good, but Duke is a top 10 academic program. Our B-school is international well known. Our diversity of US and international students is impressive (for a school south of the Mason-Dixon line). That's just what I don't get - for a student who puts so much emphasis on school, why not go to one of the best schools in the US?

[CDu]

Programs, yes. Schools - really? UNC and Duke are quite different, and not just due to the private / public debate.

Academic focus, demographics, offerings, research potential - there are a lot of differences. As I'm sure you know, Duke's academics are a large part of the reason that Duke gets a lot of great recruits.

As much as I wanted HB, what really got me wondering is his choice of academic schools. UNC is pretty good, but Duke is a top 10 academic program. Our B-school is international well known. Our diversity of US and international students is impressive (for a school south of the Mason-Dixon line). That's just what I don't get - for a student who puts so much emphasis on school, why not go to one of the best schools in the US?

All of your arguments for why Duke is a better school relate to research/science and graduate programs. And I completely agree that the differences there are vast. But my point is based on the undergraduate, non-research/science perspective. The overall school ranking (which is based more on research and publications than the quality of the undergrad liberal arts eduction) and business school ranking (again, minimal relevance to the undergrad degree) don't apply.

Aside from the research/science programs, the difference in the undergraduate educations are very small. Barnes was looking to study econ/business as an undergrad. The differences between the undergrad econ departments (Duke doesn't have an undergrad business degree) at Duke and UNC is virtually non-existent.

[flyingdutchdevil]

All of your arguments for why Duke is a better school relate to research/science and graduate programs. And I completely agree that the differences there are vast. But my point is based on the undergraduate, non-research/science perspective.

Aside from the research/science programs, the difference in the undergraduate educations are not very small. Barnes was looking to study econ/business as an undergrad. The differences between the undergrad econ departments (Duke doesn't have an undergrad business degree) at Duke and UNC is virtually non-existent.

Fair enough. But the emphasis put on US colleges, and this is a huge part of the reason I went to the US for college despite being an international student, is the campus environment. Being an undergrad, you live, eat, drink, party, play, sleep, walk, etc. with individuals who have a huge variety of backgrounds. The diversity of Duke is of huge appeal. Not sure about everyone, but my friends and myself certainly learned a lot more from just being around each other than we did from our textbooks or professors.

I'm not sure if this appeals to HB (and I assume it doesn't), but just having a plethora of smart kids around you can, and usually does, make you a smarter person.

[CDu]

Fair enough. But the emphasis put on US colleges, and this is a huge part of the reason I went to the US for college despite being an international student, is the campus environment. Being an undergrad, you live, eat, drink, party, play, sleep, walk, etc. with individuals who have a huge variety of backgrounds. The diversity of Duke is of huge appeal. Not sure about everyone, but my friends and myself certainly learned a lot more from just being around each other than we did from our textbooks or professors.

I'm not sure if this appeals to HB (and I assume it doesn't), but just having a plethora of smart kids around you can, and usually does, make you a smarter person.

Sure. But there are plenty of very smart kids from a variety of backgrounds at UNC as well. You can find pretty much any type of student to hang out with at either school. Though the vast majority of students come from in-state, the fact that the undergrad enrollment is basically triple that of Duke means there are plenty of kids from outside of NC.

As for how this pertains to Barnes, I also have no idea. But my impression is that the basketball players spend most of their time with the other basketball players due to the time commitment required to be a part of a D-1 program. As such, to some degree I think the argument about variety of kids to hang out with applies a bit less to basketball recruits.

From an undergrad, econ/business education standpoint, I think the differences facing Barnes were small. From a quality of basketball program standpoint, the differences were definitely small. Those two things are what I would suspect would be the primary decisions for a kid deciding between the two schools. That was my main point.

[CLT Devil]

http://www.ballislife.com/video/kyrie-irving-jordan-brand

I know this is the wrong thread, but personally this confirms to me that we got the right player. Hope this helps everyone get over HWSNBN.

Mods, sorry about wrong thread but might be good closure, and apologies if already posted elsewhere.....

[CDu]

http://www.ballislife.com/video/kyrie-irving-jordan-brand

I know this is the wrong thread, but personally this confirms to me that we got the right player. Hope this helps everyone get over HWSNBN.

Mods, sorry about wrong thread but might be good closure, and apologies if already posted elsewhere.....

I'm not sure this is really relevant. Barnes and Irving were never mutually exclusive. The hope was always for us to get BOTH.

But yes, Irving looks like he's going to be a fantastic player.

I'm sorry that we didn't get Barnes along with Irving. In my opinion, Barnes have been a great fit for the program, and he would have been a terrific fit talent-wise. But I'm not crying over spilled milk. He went elsewhere. We'll still be very good without him.

I'm just annoyed that, because he chose UNC over Duke, people are questioning his character/values and saying that they're glad we didn't get him.

[CLT Devil]

I only posted to try and get this thing to bed. Like you say CDu, don't cry over spilled milk. The guy is obviously a great kid and we all would have loved to have him, but it didn't work out and it hurts that he went to our rivals. My whole point is lets be thankful for who we DID get. Right now any Duke fan has plenty to be thankful for...Natty Champs, Top Notch Program as well as some great players coming in, including one who I think can have a bigger impact than HB.

I hate to hear anyone bash the guy. Sure, his announcement dog and pony show turned me off to him a bit, but he seems like a great kid and I wish him all the best off the court.

I think it's more important that UNC didn't get an Irving type player than us not getting a HB type player, especially with Singler coming back.

Maybe you don't think it's relevant, but I think KI is as big if not a bigger get for us, although UNC really really needed HB...and like another poster said, I hope for their sake he's as good as he thinks he is.

On a side note, I'd love to see another few years where they have one really good player, ala Joe Forte, and a bunch of other role players. I'm not counting them out at all, but they could go either way next year.

[CDu]

I only posted to try and get this thing to bed. Like you say CDu, don't cry over spilled milk. The guy is obviously a great kid and we all would have loved to have him, but it didn't work out and it hurts that he went to our rivals. My whole point is lets be thankful for who we DID get. Right now any Duke fan has plenty to be thankful for...Natty Champs, Top Notch Program as well as some great players coming in, including one who I think can have a bigger impact than HB.

I hate to hear anyone bash the guy. Sure, his announcement dog and pony show turned me off to him a bit, but he seems like a great kid and I wish him all the best off the court.

I think it's more important that UNC didn't get an Irving type player than us not getting a HB type player, especially with Singler coming back.

Maybe you don't think it's relevant, but I think KI is as big if not a bigger get for us, although UNC really really needed HB...and like another poster said, I hope for their sake he's as good as he thinks he is.

On a side note, I'd love to see another few years where they have one really good player, ala Joe Forte, and a bunch of other role players. I'm not counting them out at all, but they could go either way next year.

I think my issue was just one of clarity. It seemed like you were saying we ended up with Irving instead of Barnes and that Irving was the right choice. It sounds like it was just a semantics disagreement.

I agree that (especially with Singler returning) Irving was the more important get for us for next year. So the point you're making (we'll be all right, and it was more important that we got Irving than it was to get Barnes) is one I agree with.

[ElSid]

http://www.ballislife.com/video/kyrie-irving-jordan-brand

I know this is the wrong thread, but personally this confirms to me that we got the right player. Hope this helps everyone get over HWSNBN.

Mods, sorry about wrong thread but might be good closure, and apologies if already posted elsewhere.....

wow i can't get tired of watching that.